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`
` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
` AMERICAN NATIONAL MANUFACTURING )
` INC., )
` )
` Petitioner, )
` )
` vs. ) IPR2019-00497
` ) Patent 8,769,747 B2
` SLEEP NUMBER CORPORATION, ) IPR2019-00500
` f/k/a SELECT COMFORT ) Patent 9,737,154 B2
` CORPORATION, )
` )
` Patent Owner. )
` __________________________________)
`
` DEPOSITION OF CRAIG MILLER
` February 20, 2020
` Corona, California
`
`
`
`
`
`
`
`
`Reported by:
`Michael G. McMorran
`Job no: 27001
`
`TransPerfect Legal Solutions
`212-400-8845 - Depo@TransPerfect.com
`
`Sleep Number Corp.
`EXHIBIT 2097
`IPR2019-00514
`Page 1
`
`

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`Page 2
` DEPOSITION OF CRAIG MILLER, taken on behalf of
` Patent Owner at 9:01 a.m., Thursday, February 20th,
` 2020, at 2731 Blue Springs Drive, Corona, California,
` before Michael G. McMorran, Certified Shorthand
` Reporter No. 13735 of the State of California, RPR,
` pursuant to Notice.
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` APPEARANCES OF COUNSEL:
` FOR PETITIONER:
` SPENCER FANE, LLP
` BY: KYLE L. ELLIOTT, ESQ.
` 1000 Walnut Street
` Suite 1400
` Kansas City, Missouri 64106-2140
` (816) 292-8150
` kelliott@spencerfane.com
`
` FOR PATENT OWNER:
`
` FOX ROTHSCHILD LLP
` BY: ANDREW S. HANSEN, ESQ.
` 222 South Ninth Street
` Suite 2000
` Minneapolis, Minnesota 55402-3338
` (612) 607-7000
` ahansen@foxrothschild.com
`
`
` Also present: LARRY ASKEW
`
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`Page 4
`
` I N D E X
` WITNESS: Craig Miller
` EXAMINATION PAGE
` By Mr. Hansen 5
` By Mr. Elliott 109
`
` E X H I B I T S
` EX. DESCRIPTION PAGE
` 1 Document entitled "Agreement" 20
` CONFIDENTIAL
`
` 2 Spreadsheet 24
`
` 3 Declaration of Craig Miller, Jr. in 31
` Support of Petitioner's Reply to Patent
` Owner's Response
`
` 4 Timeline diagram 50
`
` 5 Document entitled "Dires Advertising 67
` Spend Periods 1-4" CONFIDENTIAL
` 6 Document entitled "Dires' Disapproval 76
` Suspension Timeline - Private Search
` Engine Companies"
` 7 IPR 10 Exhibit to Supplemental 89
` Declaration of Craig Miller, Jr. in
` Support of Petitioner's Reply to Patent
` Owner's Response
`
` 8 IPR 11 Exhibit to Supplemental 93
` Declaration of Craig Miller, Jr. in
` Support of Petitioner's Reply to Patent
` Owner's Response CONFIDENTIAL
` 9 American National Invoice No. 0491641-IN 114
`
`
`
`Page 5
` CORONA, CALIFORNIA; THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 20TH, 2020
` 9:01 A.M.
` * * *
` CRAIG MILLER,
` the Witness herein, having been first duly sworn,
` testified as follows:
` -oOo-
` EXAMINATION
` BY MR. HANSEN:
` Q Good morning, Mr. Miller.
` A Good morning.
` Q As you know, my name is Andy Hansen. I'm
` counsel for Sleep Number.
` We've met before, correct?
` A We have.
` Q Let me ask you just some preliminary
` background questions about preparation today and prior
` testimony that you've given.
` You've given depositions before, right?
` A I have.
` Q And you've given trial testimony before?
` A I have.
` Q Have you given any depositions or trial
` testimony outside of the matters that you've had with
` Sleep Number?
`
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`TransPerfect Legal Solutions
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`2 (Pages 2 to 5)
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`Sleep Number Corp.
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` A Once.
` Q What was that?
` A It was in a -- on a medical bed application
` where it was a customer we were manufacturing products
` for, there was an exposure to latex.
` Q When did this occur?
` A Mid '90s.
` Q Okay. And can you describe your current role
` with American National Manufacturing?
` A I'm the president.
` Q How about with a company called Dires, LLC?
` A Manager.
` Q And what is your role with Sizewise?
` A I am the chief manufacturing innovation
` officer.
` Q How long have you held that position, the one
` with Sizewise?
` A That one changed maybe two years ago, if I
` remember correctly.
` Q Have you been involved with any other
` litigation besides litigation with Sleep Number?
` A Nothing that ever came to anything
` otherwise -- other than just resolving something.
` Q Like -- and it was kind of a little bit of a
` vague question, I think, so let me break it down a
`Page 7
`
` little bit.
` With ANM in your role -- you've been the
` president of ANM for a while now, right?
` A I have.
` Q How long?
` A Since the -- I don't remember exactly when my
` mom was the president. I was the vice president
` starting in '93. And then sometime thereafter, don't
` know exactly when that changed, but I think it changed
` about the time that we merged with Sizewise.
` So probably 2007 would be my recollection.
` Q During your time as president of ANM, are you
` aware of ANM being involved in litigation with any
` other companies?
` A Not since -- no, I haven't.
` Q With any consumers?
` A With any -- not -- nothing that comes to my
` mind.
` Q And how about Dires? Same question.
` Set aside the Sleep Number litigations, have
` you been involved -- Dires -- have they been involved
` with any other litigation with any companies?
` MR. ELLIOTT: Objection to form.
` THE WITNESS: Not that I recall.
` /////
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` BY MR. HANSEN:
` Q With any consumers?
` A That was the question you asked.
` Not that I recall.
` Q Oh, I thought I said "companies," but --
` A Well, same answer.
` Q -- it covers both. Okay.
` And can you tell me a little bit about the
` relationship between ANM and Sizewise? What is the
` current relationship between the two companies?
` MR. ELLIOTT: I'll enter an objection as to
` scope. I realize we're doing a bit of background, but
` we don't want to turn into a -- something that's way
` beyond Mr. Miller's declaration in this IPR.
` THE WITNESS: So what was the question?
` BY MR. HANSEN:
` Q What is the relationship between ANM and
` Sizewise?
` A Well, Sizewise owns ANM.
` Q And the relationship between Sizewise and
` Dires?
` A Sizewise is the majority owner of Dires.
` Q And is ANM an owner of Dires?
` A ANM is not a direct owner of Dires.
` Q Is it -- is the ownership of Dires from ANM,
`Page 9
`
` basically, through you?
` MR. ELLIOTT: Objection to form.
` THE WITNESS: I think it's -- I think we need
` to back up to help -- you know, put things -- to make
` things more clear.
` BY MR. HANSEN:
` Q Sure.
` A So American National is a wholly owned
` subsidiary of Dires -- I'm sorry. American National is
` a wholly owned subsidiary of Sizewise.
` Okay. And then Dires is majority owned, over
` 80 percent owned -- was owned by Sizewise.
` Q And so who currently are the Dires owners?
` MR. ELLIOTT: Objection. Scope. That's way
` beyond anything we've got here.
` If we're going to continue to explore the
` corporate structure, you're going to have to give me
` some basis for why you think that's within the scope.
` MR. HANSEN: Well -- and I can tell you where
` it's going to come in later is questions about sales of
` products to Dires.
` So I'm trying to understand what the
` relationship is between ANM and Dires at this point, if
` they're separate entities or the same entity.
` MR. ELLIOTT: And how does that relate to the
`3 (Pages 6 to 9)
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` sales that we're going to get into later that I think
` are relevant to the scope?
` MR. HANSEN: Well, there's multiple ways we'll
` get into it. We'll get into it with certain statements
` that have been made about the relationship when you get
` into false statements, which is within the scope of the
` declarations that were given when we talk about false
` statements from a previous litigation.
` In addition, when we're talking about sales
` from ANM to Dires, it's relevant as to whether or not
` that is a direct to consumer or through a retailer,
` which gets in, again, to statements that have been
` made, which I'll ask questions about later.
` MR. ELLIOTT: Well, we know Dires isn't a
` consumer. So to me, you can -- I'm okay with that
` question.
` But why do you need to know the percentage
` ownership and who else is owners of Dires, you know,
` people that have never been mentioned in these IPRs?
` MR. HANSEN: I don't think it really matters
` if somebody has been mentioned in the IPR yet when I'm
` asking questions about statements that have been made
` in a declaration.
` I'm just getting some background right now
` about who is an owner of Dires, and I'm going to ask
`Page 11
` questions about statements that have been made where
` Dires is making sales to consumers where they're
` attributing it to ANM as the manufacturer, Dires as the
` manufacturer.
` And I'm trying to understand if these
` companies are separate or not.
` MR. ELLIOTT: Let's move forward. But, you
` know, to the extent we're trying to figure out what the
` overall corporate structure of all this is in this
` deposition now, I'm going to cut off, and we'll give a
` call to the paralegal and see if we can get the Board
` on the phone.
` MR. HANSEN: So you don't want me to ask any
` other questions about the ownership of Dires?
` Are you saying he's not going to answer that,
` or are you going to cut it off?
` MR. ELLIOTT: I'm saying let's go forward with
` your line of questioning. But what I'm saying is if
` it's continuing to turn into just an exploration of the
` whole ownership structure of individuals that aren't
` even real parties of interest in this IPR, then I'm
` going to cut it off.
` MR. HANSEN: Okay. I don't think I'm going to
` go where you're concerned I'm going. I just want to
` get the framework for what the ownership is.
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` MR. ELLIOTT: Okay.
` MR. HANSEN: That's all I'm looking for right
` now.
` MR. ELLIOTT: Okay.
` BY MR. HANSEN:
` Q I don't remember what the question was, but I
` believe it was who are the owners of Dires?
` A Okay. The owners of Dires -- the owners of
` Dires are the seven owners of Sizewise.
` Q Okay.
` A Okay? Because there are seven owners of
` Sizewise, and then there are three minority owners of
` Dires.
` But the owners of Sizewise own in excess of
` 80 percent of Dires.
` Q And you're one of the owners of Sizewise?
` A Correct.
` Q And the other three minority owners are not
` related to Sizewise?
` A Correct.
` Q Mr. Miller, in these IPRs, you've submitted
` different declarations at different points in time.
` Initially, you submitted a declaration relating to some
` discovery requests that Sleep Number was pursuing.
` Is that accurate?
`
`Page 13
`
` A Yes.
` MR. ELLIOTT: And to the extent that you're
` going to ask questions about that generally, but if
` you're going to go into specifics of it, that's a
` discovery motion that's already been decided. It's not
` part of his testimony of substance in the IPR and would
` also be beyond the scope of the testimony that's being
` taken today.
` MR. HANSEN: So you're saying that you
` don't -- you wouldn't -- you would object to any
` testimony relating to that prior declaration?
` MR. ELLIOTT: Mmm-hmm, supporting the
` discovery motion, yes. Some of that, I think, overlaps
` with the declaration that's at issue substantively that
` the testimony today pertains to -- that his direct
` testimony pertains to.
` MR. HANSEN: Well, I disagree with you that
` it's not relevant because I think we still have some
` carryover issues from discovery that are now at issue
` with the latest declarations that were put in when we
` sought discovery.
` Obviously, you objected to a lot of the
` discovery we sought.
` MR. ELLIOTT: Right.
` MR. HANSEN: It played out. There was an
`4 (Pages 10 to 13)
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`Page 14
` order. And now we have a declaration in there that is
` taking issue.
` That's my characterization. You don't have to
` agree with it.
` MR. ELLIOTT: Sure.
` MR. HANSEN: But it's taking issue with some
` of the discovery that was produced, and there is
` additional documents that have been now put forward in
` the declaration that were not produced earlier when we
` were seeking that discovery.
` MR. ELLIOTT: Sure. And as to the discovery
` that was ordered and then anything that's been produced
` since then, I have no scope objections to that at all
` because that is supporting Mr. Miller's testimony that
` is in the declaration that's of substance here.
` So those what you state there regarding the
` discovery, I don't have issues with.
` MR. HANSEN: All right. Well, Counsel, why
` don't we put that aside for now? Just bear with me a
` moment.
` MR. ELLIOTT: Sure.
` MR. HANSEN: And I'll see if that's something
` that we're going to have to see if we can get on a call
` about.
` MR. ELLIOTT: Sure. Let me start tracking
`Page 15
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` down the paralegal's phone number.
` BY MR. HANSEN:
` Q Well, let me ask you some questions about
` different companies that you have sold beds to in the
` past.
` A Okay.
` Q By "you," I'm talking about ANM. Okay? Is
` that fair?
` A Fair.
` Q At one point in time, you entered into a
` consulting agreement with Sleep Number, right?
` A Correct.
` Q And what year was that?
` A That was 2007, if I recall correctly.
` Q So prior to that time, ANM was selling beds to
` other retailers, right?
` A Correct.
` Q And what were those retailers?
` A There was a number of retailers. There were
` different retailers in the specialty sleep, you know,
` market. Mostly companies that had transitioned from
` selling waterbeds, which was our roots, our history,
` that then transformed our companies into selling
` specialty sleep products.
` Q What do you mean by "specialty sleep"?
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` A Products other than conventional bedding.
` They started from waterbeds, and then they evolved into
` things that were not mainstream.
` Q So when you say -- when you say that, is it
` like, basically, beds other than inner spring?
` Is that a fair way to describe it?
` MR. ELLIOTT: Objection to form.
` THE WITNESS: They make futon. The shows we
` attended was the specialty sleep shows.
` BY MR. HANSEN:
` Q Okay.
` A And then it became the specialty sleep and
` futon shows. That's why I'm saying it that way.
` Q Okay. Did ANM -- you mentioned waterbeds.
` Did ANM manufacture any other types of beds? This is
` pre-entering that agreement with Sleep Number.
` A Yes.
` Q What types of beds were those?
` A Prior to entering the agreement with
` Sleep Number, we manufactured all types of, you know,
` obviously, waterbeds, but also adjustable firmness
` mattresses as well.
` Q Adjustable firmness -- is that using air
` technology?
` A Yes.
`
`Page 17
`
` Q Any other types of beds?
` A Yeah. We would make other types of products
` that were specialty in nature.
` Q Can you give me some examples?
` A Products that would go in motorhomes. Just we
` were a specialty, you know, manufacturer; so we
` manufactured a lot of custom, you know, mattresses to
` go into truck drivers, you know, rigs. Just various
` specialty, you know, products, including the medical
` products.
` Q And setting aside the medical products, these
` specialty mattresses -- would they be all adjustable
` air, or would some of them be different types of
` mattresses?
` A They would be different types. Some would be
` air.
` Q When you say "different types," would some of
` them be inner spring?
` A We've done some inner spring, but not very
` much.
` Q In your declaration that you submitted in --
` it's Exhibit 1057 in the IPR, and it's titled
` "Declaration of Craig Miller, Jr. in Support of
` Petitioner's Reply to Patent Owner Response," you talk
` about different programmers that you've worked with
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` regarding source code.
` Do you recall that?
` A Yes.
` Q And you mentioned a company called Medisphere.
` Do you recall that?
` A Yes.
` Q When did you start working with Medisphere?
` A I would say approximately 1995, I believe.
` Q And what was Medisphere doing for ANM?
` A Medisphere was actually manufacturing medical
` controllers for one of our common customers.
` Q So Medisphere was providing a product for you
` on the medical side, not the consumer side?
` A On the medical side, correct. And they were
` supplying products to the same -- we would manufacture
` a medical mattress for customer A, and Medisphere would
` supply the mating control unit to that same customer to
` then power it.
` Q So, you know, correct me if I'm wrong, but in
` doing that, Medisphere would be supplying ANM with
` source code to make that product work; is that right?
` MR. ELLIOTT: Objection to form.
` THE WITNESS: They sold pumps. And this
` complete pump, you know, we had -- it was already in
` there. It ran the product. It controlled the product.
`Page 19
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` It operated an air mattress that we would make.
` BY MR. HANSEN:
` Q Okay. So there was source code in it; they
` weren't sending you source code separate, right?
` MR. ELLIOTT: Objection to form.
` THE WITNESS: Yeah. They sent a complete
` working product.
` BY MR. HANSEN:
` Q And when did ANM stop working with Medisphere?
` A I don't know the exact date when we stopped
` working with them, but it would -- I don't know if it
` was three years ago or five years ago.
` Q Fairly recent, though?
` A It's within the last -- yes, fairly recent.
` Q Okay. Is there a particular reason you
` stopped working with them?
` MR. ELLIOTT: Objection to scope.
` You can go ahead and answer.
` THE WITNESS: No, there was just the things
` evolve and change.
` BY MR. HANSEN:
` Q You mentioned that you worked with a company
` called Elynsen? Do I have that right? E-l-n-y-s-e-n?
` A Elynsen.
` Q Sorry.
`
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`Page 20
` MR. ELLIOTT: Objection to scope. Where is
` this tied in to his current testimony and declaration?
` That's going back to the discovery issues over
` the software that's not at issue in this testimony in
` this IPR.
` MR. HANSEN: Why don't we table it?
` MR. ELLIOTT: Sure.
` BY MR. HANSEN:
` Q Let's talk about the consulting agreement that
` you had with Sleep Number.
` A Okay.
` Q And you -- I think you mentioned you thought
` it was 2006 when you entered it.
` And do you recall it ended around the end of
` December 2011?
` MR. ELLIOTT: Objection. Form.
` THE WITNESS: I would have to see the
` document, but I believe that sounds correct.
` MR. HANSEN: All right. Why don't I get it
` out?
` (Exhibit 1 was marked.)
` MR. ELLIOTT: Thank you.
` BY MR. HANSEN:
` Q Mr. Miller, I've put in front of you what's
` been marked as Exhibit 1.
`
`Page 21
` Does this look like the original consulting
` agreement that you signed with what was at the time
` Select Comfort?
` A Yes.
` Q And if you look at paragraph 2 on the first
` page of that agreement, in the -- I guess it would be
` the second sentence, it talks about -- well, the whole
` paragraph 2 talks about your duties, right?
` A Yes.
` Q And that second sentence is talking about
` specific expertise is anticipated in the areas of
` product research and development and low cost country
` sourcing, right?
` A Yes.
` Q And in providing consulting services to
` Sleep Number, if you look at paragraph 2, it talks
` about devoting up to 20 hours per month, right?
` A Yes.
` Q And you believe you provided on average more
` than 20 hours per month, right?
` A Yes.
` Q Do you recall how much more you think on
` average you provided?
` A Not -- not as I sit here exactly how much
` more, no.
`
`TransPerfect Legal Solutions
`212-400-8845 - Depo@TransPerfect.com
`
`6 (Pages 18 to 21)
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`Sleep Number Corp.
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`Page 22
` Q Do you think it was double 20 hours? Like, 40
` hours?
` MR. ELLIOTT: Objection to scope. The
` consulting agreement clearly is at issue. You've
` raised it, we cited it.
` But is there any of his testimony that's
` pertaining to how many hours he actually worked on --
` on the consulting provision in this -- even in the
` discovery declarations, is there any testimony
` regarding how many hours he worked on?
` MR. HANSEN: I think this is relevant.
` MR. ELLIOTT: I'm going to enter the objection
` to scope because I believe the consulting agreement is
` here, but the questions that you're asking about the
` consulting agreement, I believe, are outside the scope.
` So I'll enter the objection. I'll allow him
` to answer the question.
` THE WITNESS: I don't know how much more.
` BY MR. HANSEN:
` Q Okay. And when you were doing this consulting
` agreement, you had a good understanding of
` Sleep Number's products, right?
` A Yes.
` Q And I'm saying "Sleep Number." You understand
` that's Select Comfort in time --
`
`Page 23
` A I understand that's Select Comfort at this
` time.
` Q Okay. And you had studied Sleep Number's
` mattresses, right?
` A I think we -- when you say "mattresses," I
` would say mattresses as far as the mattress itself
` separate and apart from control units.
` Q You had studied Sleep Number's control units
` too, right?
` A To the extent of how they operated to go
` from -- you know, adjust firmness. But as far as
` beyond that, not much more than that.
` Q And -- yeah. You testified before that you're
` very familiar with the operations of Sleep Number's air
` beds, right?
` A Yes.
` MR. ELLIOTT: Mr. Hansen, can we take a short
` break? I'm not getting any communications out of the
` room. I'm trying to track down the paralegal number.
` Everything is coming back bouncing.
` MR. HANSEN: Yeah, just one moment.
` MR. ELLIOTT: Sure.
` MR. HANSEN: Yeah, let's go ahead. Let's take
` a break.
` (Off the record from 9:30 a.m. to
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`212-400-8845 - Depo@TransPerfect.com
`
`Page 24
`
` 9:52 a.m.)
` (Exhibit 2 was marked.)
` BY MR. HANSEN:
` Q Mr. Miller, I've given you what's been marked
` as Exhibit No. 2.
` Do you recognize this document?
` A I do.
` Q Can you tell me what it is?
` A This is the document with all the assorted
` data for various products.
` Q This was produced in discovery, right?
` A Yes.
` Q And this is actually the first page of a much
` larger document, right?
` A Much larger, yes.
` Q And you had attached this to your affidavit,
` correct?
` A Correct.
` Q And if you look at the top, there's some
` various columns that I want to go through.
` Can you walk me through what these are?
` "Invoice date" means what?
` A That means the date that the product was
` invoiced from American National.
` Q And is that the same as the month, then?
`Page 25
` What's the difference between those two? Just tell me
` what the month means.
` A Oh, same.
` Q Okay. And "Quarters"?
` A Would be the quarter for that particular
` invoice date or month.
` Q And then it's a given year, right?
` A That's correct.
` Q "Inner Company" -- what's that mean?
` A "Inner company" is the designation was it sold
` to Dires would be "Inner Company." Third-party would
` be somebody outside, you know, an unrelated
` third-party.
` Q "Stock ID"?
` A That is going to be the part number.
` Q And "descriptors" -- or does that say
` "Description"?
` A "Description."
` Q What's that mean?
` A A description of the product.
` Q "Combined Name" -- what's that mean?
` A That is going to be the part number with a
` description combined.
` Q "Units Sold"?
` A That would be the amount of units sold for
`7 (Pages 22 to 25)
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`Page 26
` that particular month -- that particular day I should
` say.
` Q For that -- it's day-specific, right? Is that
` what you're saying?
` A Yes.
` Q Or is it -- is it day specific, or is it
` specific to that particular invoice that you started
` with?
` A Well, if you look at the invoice, you're
` starting with May 4th all the way to the top left-hand
` corner.
` Q Yep.
` A There were 25 units that were invoiced on
` May 4th.
` Q Okay. "Medical, Non-Medical"?
` A That designation -- is the product a medical
` product or a nonmedical product.
` Q "Accused" with a question mark?
` A Yes. That was a designation that we put on
` it. Was it an accused or not.
` Q And what does that mean, "accused"?
` MR. ELLIOTT: Objection to form.
` THE WITNESS: Accused -- we were looking for
` products that had -- if it had a manifold in it, it was
` going to be -- if it had one of the accused manifolds,
`Page 27
`
` it was accused.
` BY MR. HANSEN:
` Q And by "accused," you mean accused of
` infringing a Sleep Number patent?
` MR. ELLIOTT: Objection to form.
` THE WITNESS: Yes.
` BY MR. HANSEN:
` Q And did you put in the information in the
` accused column?
` A I personally did not enter them, but I went
` through it with a -- with a coworker to designate all
` of these because they wouldn't know.
` Q So you didn't personally type it in, but
` somebody else did at your direction?
` A Yes. Well, they know a big percentage of
` them, but not 100 percent. So it was a -- we both did
` it together to make sure we had it right.
` Q And who was the coworker?
` A Rick Jansen.
` Q What's his position?
` A He's our VP of operations.
` Q And then the next column says "Manifold." And
` can you tell me what that means?
` A If it had a -- one of the accused manifolds
` inside.
`
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`TransPerfect Legal Solutions
`212-400-8845 - Depo@TransPerfect.com
`
`Page 28
` Q And "Software" -- do you know what that means?
` A Was there software inside.
` Q So just backing up to manifold for a question
` real quick. If I take your -- let me back up.
` If I'm understanding your answer, am I correct
` in saying that the manifold column relates to whether
` there's an accused manifold in there or just a
` manifold?
` MR. ELLIOTT: Objection to form.
` THE WITNESS: We would have went through and
` basically categorize this: Does this have a Koge
` manifold or a Arco manifold in it. And if it did, then
` it was accused.
` BY MR. HANSEN:
` Q So that -- so the manifold column is --
` because all these on this document are N/A, right, not
` applicable? Is that what that stands for?
` A Correct. So, for instance, top line item, for
` instance, alternating pressure pump.
` Q Sure.
` A That has a mechanical rotary valve inside that
` spins and makes a rotation, once every five or ten
` minutes, depends on the rotary valve; so there is no
` manifold in it whatsoever. There's hoses to connect
` different things up together.
`
`Page 29
` Q And what I'm trying to get at -- thank you for
` that, but what I'm trying to get at is in the manifold
` column, if it has a manifold that is not accused, would
` you say potentially yes, or are you only indicating,
` yes, if it's an accused manifold?
` A Well, we went down the list -- because the
` request, if I recall, was for, you know, we, obviously,
` had a list of the accused products, right?
` Q Right.
` A And when we'd go and we sorted this, we were
` selecting all of the pumps, and sometimes some other
` products came up in the search that were irrelevant
` such as these up top here.
` Q Okay.
` A So we wanted to make sure we caught everything
` that we possibly could.
` Q Okay. And I guess my -- and I'm probably just
` not asking it very well, but what I'm getting at is on
` this column, did you ever have a situation where there
` was a manifold, but it was not an accused manifold in a
` product whereby you would potentially answer yes?
` A I don't recall.
` Q Okay. And how about with software? I want to
` kind of get at the same thing. Do you have -- without
` getting into the huge document, do you recall if you
`8 (Pages 26 to 29)
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`Page 30
` indicated that there was software associated with a
` given product even if it wasn't accused?
` A We just bulked these into accused and
` nonaccused if they had a manifold because it was --
` that's the way we bulked them.
` So, like, these here that say -- do you have
` the larger document so I can run through the entire
` piece?
` Q I would have to bring it up on my computer.
` If we need to, I can do that later, but --
` A I think we're going to need to.
` Q Okay.
` A Because I want to make sure that I'm perfectly
` clear.
` Q Okay. We'll go back to that.
`