`
`CONFIDENTIAL INFORMATION REDACTED
`Transcript of William C. Messner,
`Ph.D.
`
`Date: January 8, 2020
`Case: American National Manufacturing Inc. -v- Sleep Number Corporation, et al.
`(PTAB)
`
`Planet Depos
`Phone: 888.433.3767
`Email:: transcripts@planetdepos.com
`www.planetdepos.com
`
`WORLDWIDE COURT REPORTING & LITIGATION TECHNOLOGY
`
`American National Manufacturing, Inc.
`Exhibit 1066
`IPR2019-00514
`Page 1
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`

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`CONFIDENTIAL INFORMATION REDACTED
`Transcript of William C. Messner, Ph.D.
`Conducted on January 8, 2020
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`1 (1 to 4)
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` A P P E A R A N C E S
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`REPRESENTING THE PETITIONER:
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` Mr. Kyle L. Elliott
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` Attorney at Law
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` Spencer Fane LLP
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` 1000 Walnut Street, Suite 1400
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` Kansas City, MO 64106-2140
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` kelliott@spencerfane.com
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` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
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` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
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`-------------------------------------
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`AMERICAN NATIONAL IPR2019-00514
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`MANUFACTURING INC., Patent No. 5,904,172
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` Petitioner,
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`v.
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`SLEEP NUMBER CORPORATION
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`f/k/a SELECT COMFORT
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`CORPORATION,
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` Patent Owner.
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`REPRESENTING THE PATENT OWNER:
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`-------------------------------------
` CONFIDENTIAL INFORMATION REDACTED
` VIDEO DEPOSITION OF
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` WILLIAM C. MESSNER, PH.D.
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` MINNEAPOLIS, MINNESOTA
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` WEDNESDAY, JANUARY 8, 2020
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` 8:08 A.M.
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`JOB NO.: 275010
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`PAGES: 1 - 203
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` Ms. Archana Nath
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` Attorney at Law
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` Fox Rothschild LLP
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` 222 South Ninth Street, Suite 2000
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` Minneapolis, MN 55402
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` anath@foxrothschild.com
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`ALSO PRESENT:
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` Mr. Kyle Stolis, Videographer
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`REPORTED BY: MYRINA A. KLEINSCHMIDT, RMR, CRR
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` I N D E X
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`EXAMINATION:
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` By Mr. Elliott - Pages 11 and 200
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` By Ms. Nath - Page 183
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`CONFIDENTIAL RECORD:
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` Pages 105 - 113
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`Pages 193 - 194
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`EXHIBITS:
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`Exhibit 1 ................................ 10
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` Declaration of Dr. William C.
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` VIDEO DEPOSITION OF WILLIAM C.
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`MESSNER, PH.D., HELD AT THE OFFICES OF:
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` FOX ROTHSCHILD LLP
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` 222 SOUTH NINTH STREET
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` MINNEAPOLIS, MINNESOTA 55402
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` Pursuant to Notice, before Myrina A.
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` Messner in Support of Patent
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`Kleinschmidt, Notary Public in and for the County
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` Owner’s Response
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`of Hennepin, State of Minnesota.
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` (130 pages)
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`Exhibit 2 ................................ 40
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` United States Patent number
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` 5,383,894; dated Jan. 24, 1995
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` (9 pages)
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` (continued...)
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`PLANET DEPOS
`888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
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`American National Manufacturing, Inc.
`Exhibit 1066
`IPR2019-00514
`Page 2
`
`

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`CONFIDENTIAL INFORMATION REDACTED
`Transcript of William C. Messner, Ph.D.
`Conducted on January 8, 2020
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`EXHIBITS, continued:
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`EXHIBIT/DESCRIPTION PAGE
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` Exhibit 9 ................................115
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` United States Patent number
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` 5,494,074; dated Feb. 27, 1996
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` (20 pages)
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`EXHIBITS, continued:
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`EXHIBIT/DESCRIPTION PAGE
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` Exhibit 3 ................................ 52
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` Goodwin, Patent number 3,177,018
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` (4 pages)
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` Exhibit 4 ................................ 55
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`0
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` United States Patent number
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` 4,309,783; dated Jan. 12, 1982
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` A Systematic Approach go Integral
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` (18 pages)
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` Snap-Fit Attachment Design
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` Exhibit 5 ................................ 63
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` United States Patent number
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` Exhibit 11 ...............................153
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` 5,904,172; dated May 18, 1999
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` United States Patent number
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` (17 pages)
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` 5,353,838; dated Oct. 11, 1994
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`EXHIBITS, continued:
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` Exhibit 12 ...............................156
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` U.S. Patent No. 5,904,172
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` versus Sealy Air Controllers
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` (7 pages)
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` Exhibit 13 ...............................160
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`EXHIBITS, continued:
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` Exhibit 6 ................................ 78
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` International Application
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` Published Under the Patent
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` Cooperation Treaty (PCT), number WO
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` 96/13947, dated 9 May 1996
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` Declaration of Dr. John Abraham
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` Exhibit 7 ................................ 79
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` in Support of Patent Owner’s Response
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` United States Patent number
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` (101 pages)
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` 5,652,484; dated Jul. 29, 1997
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` Exhibit 14 ...............................167
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` United States Patent number
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` Exhibit 8 ................................ 80
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` 4,655,505; dated Apr. 7, 1987
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` United States Patent number
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` (15 pages)
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` 5,509,154; dated Apr. 23, 1996
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`PLANET DEPOS
`888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
`
`American National Manufacturing, Inc.
`Exhibit 1066
`IPR2019-00514
`Page 3
`
`

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`CONFIDENTIAL INFORMATION REDACTED
`Transcript of William C. Messner, Ph.D.
`Conducted on January 8, 2020
`
`3 (9 to 12)
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`Fane on behalf of petitioner American National.
`Also appearing with me today will be Mr. Brian
`Bear, also of Spencer Fane.
` MS. NATH: Archana Nath with Fox
`Rothschild on behalf of the patent owner, Sleep
`Number Corporation.
` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Thank you.
` The court reporter today is Myrina. I'm
`sorry, Myrina, what is your last name?
` COURT STENOGRAPHER: Kleinschmidt.
` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Kleinschmidt. Thank
`you. Would the court reporter please swear in the
`witness.
` (The oath was administered by the court
`stenographer.)
` WITNESS RESPONSE: I do.
` WILLIAM C. MESSNER, PH.D.,
`a witness in the above-entitled proceedings,
` after having been first duly sworn,
` testified under oath as follows:
` EXAMINATION
`BY MR. ELLIOTT:
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`EXHIBITS, continued:
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` Exhibit 15 ...............................170
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` Opening Expert Report of Dr. Robert
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` Giachetti in Support of Petitioner
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` American National Manufacturing,
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` Inc.’s Petition for Inter Partes
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` Review of U.S. Patent 5,904,172
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` Q Good morning, Dr. Messner. How are you?
` P R O C E E D I N G S
` A Good morning.
` WHEREUPON, the following proceedings were
` Q When did you arrive in Minneapolis for
`duly had:
`your deposition?
` (Deposition Exhibit Number 1 marked for
` A I arrived on Sunday evening.
`identification by the court stenographer.)
` Q And thank you for the flexibility changing
` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Good morning. Here
`our start date. As you can tell, I'm a little
`begins disk number 1 in the videotaped deposition
`under the weather. So it was to everybody's
`of Dr. William C. Messner, Ph.D., in the matter of
`benefit for me to have another day of recovery.
`American National Manufacturing, Inc., versus
` You've been down this road several
`Sleep Number Corporation, et al., in the United
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`times --
`States Patent and Trademark Office before the
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` A Yes.
`Patent Trial and Appeal Board, case numbers
`12
` Q -- but I'd like to ask that you please
`IPR2019-0049700500 and 00514.
`13
`answer questions verbally, not with a physical
` Today's date is Wednesday, January 8th,
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`gesture.
`2020. The time on the video monitor is 8:08 a.m.
`15
` A Certainly.
`The videographer today is Kyle Stolis representing
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` Q And you understand the video is -- or
`Planet Depos. This video deposition is taking
`17
`deposition is being videotaped?
`place at the law office of Fox Rothschild, LLP in
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` A I do.
`Minneapolis, Minnesota.
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` Q And if you would, please wait until I've
` Would counsel please voice identify
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`completed my question before responding.
`themselves and state whom they represent.
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` A I'll do that.
` MR. ELLIOTT: Kyle Elliott with Spencer
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`PLANET DEPOS
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`American National Manufacturing, Inc.
`Exhibit 1066
`IPR2019-00514
`Page 4
`
`

`

`CONFIDENTIAL INFORMATION REDACTED
`Transcript of William C. Messner, Ph.D.
`Conducted on January 8, 2020
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` Q And if you need a question repeated,
`please let us know. The court reporter can read
`it back or I can restate it. And if you don't
`understand a question, will you let me know?
` A Of course.
` Q And it's possible that counsel objects,
`and then you still need to answer the question,
`unless you're specifically instructed not to
`answer. Do you understand that?
` A Yes, I understand that.
` Q And if you need a break, let us know,
`obviously.
` A Will do.
` Q Is there any reason that you cannot
`testify truthfully today?
` A No.
` Q Would you please state your full name and
`address for the record?
` A William Charles Messner, 8 West Winkley
`Street, Amesbury, Massachusetts.
` Q I'll hand you what's been marked as
`Exhibit Number 1. If you would, please,
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`4 (13 to 16)
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`field of adjustable air mattress systems?
` A That's right.
` Q And who did you specifically talk to?
` A I spoke to Mr. Paul Mahoney.
` Q Anyone else?
` A Not that I recall at the moment.
` Q Did you ever speak with Wade Palashewski?
` A No.
` Q Did you ever speak with a gentleman by the
`name of Mr. Shafer?
` A I don't believe so.
` Q Or Duval?
` A I don't recall speaking with him.
` Q What's the time frame of your experience
`in the air adjustable mattress industry at this
`point?
` A Well, I haven't worked for any adjustable
`mattress companies, if that's what you're talking
`about. My experience with the industry would be
`related to this matter and the '154 and the '747
`matters.
` Q So your only experience with the
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`adjustable air mattress industry is in connection
`Dr. Messner, take a look at that and give us a
`with this matter?
`brief description for the record.
` A I believe that the only direct experience
` A This appears to be my declaration in
`would be in conjunction with these matters.
`support of the patent owner's response regarding
`the Patent 5,904,172.
` Q And in your report you identify some of
`your background work. Was the engineering subject
` Q And is this a complete and accurate copy
`matter with regard to these air mattress systems
`of your declaration?
` A I believe so, but just give me a moment
`more or less complex than the problems that you
`to --
`were trying to solve in the comprehensive
` Q Yeah, please take your time to look at it.
`automation for specialty crops project? And
`0
`I realize that's kind of a broad question.
`that's in paragraph 6 of your report, if you want
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` A (Reviewing.) Yes, this also includes my
`to refer back to it.
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`CV. Yes, it appears to be a complete and accurate
` A Okay. (Reviewing.)
`13
`copy. I'll let you know if I discover
` You're talking about -- that's actually
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`otherwise --
`paragraph 7.
`15
` Q Thank you.
` Q My apologies. Yeah, there's a string of
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` A -- during the proceeding here.
`paragraphs there, 6 through 9, that kind of has
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`your background?
` Q If I can direct your attention to
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` A I would say probably it was more complex.
`paragraph 18.
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` A Yes.
` Q Which one was more complex?
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` A Sorry. The specialty crops was more
` Q In this paragraph you indicate that you
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`complex.
`took the opportunity to learn from those in the
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`American National Manufacturing, Inc.
`Exhibit 1066
`IPR2019-00514
`Page 5
`
`

`

`CONFIDENTIAL INFORMATION REDACTED
`Transcript of William C. Messner, Ph.D.
`Conducted on January 8, 2020
`17
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` Q And then going back to paragraph 6, you
`talk about working on a new torpedo under
`development for the U.S. Navy?
` A Yes.
` Q Was that more or less complex than the air
`mattress systems involved in these actions?
` A Well, certainly the torpedo was much more
`complex.
` Q What about your part in the project, was
`it more or less complex?
` A Well, my portion of that effort was
`analyzing data. So it really just involved
`software at that time. So I mean, in one aspect,
`the software was certainly more complex than what
`was going on in the adjustable air mattress, as
`far as I could tell. With respect to the
`mechanical aspects, it really wasn't relevant. So
`I couldn't say.
` Q Well, the torpedo would be more
`mechanically complex than the air mattress
`systems, right?
` A That's right.
`
`5 (17 to 20)
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` Q One of the things you list here is that
`you were designing mechanisms for controlling the
`moving components in data storage systems; is that
`correct?
` A That's right.
` Q And is that design work in those
`mechanisms more complex or less complex than the
`air mattress systems at issue here?
` A Well, it's little bit of apples and
`oranges here. So on the one hand, I would like to
`say that, yes, they were more complex. At the
`same time were often fewer components.
` So air mattress systems, for example, have
`a great deal of pumps and actuators and valves and
`so on, and the disk drives had fewer moving parts.
` At the same time, there was much greater
`precision. They had to operate under much more
`difficult conditions, that is, they needed to be
`much faster, they needed to be much more precise
`and so on.
` So with respect to the technology at
`issue, I would say that they were -- it was more
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` Q Now, you were also the leader of the servo
`control effort at CMU's data storage system
`center; is that correct?
` A Yes, that's right.
` Q Just for the record, CMU is?
` A Carnegie Mellon University.
` Q Right. And what were your
`responsibilities as the leader of the servo
`control effort at CMU?
` A Well, among them was identifying suitable
`research projects, interacting with the industry
`to determine the problems with respect to servo,
`control of various data storage technologies such
`as computer disk drives, tape drives,
`magneto-optic drives.
` At the time, those were CDs. They later
`became digital video recording. Recruiting
`students, writing proposals, generating reports,
`writing papers, all -- and that's not an exclusive
`list, right.
` Q Sure.
`A Yeah.
`
`complex. But in terms of the -- looking at how
`many parts there were, less.
` Q Then you also worked on autonomous
`vehicles; is that correct?
` A That's right.
` Q Would the autonomous vehicles be more or
`less complex than the air mattress systems at
`issue in these matters?
` A I think they would be much more complex.
` Q I hope so.
`0
` One of the things it looks like you worked
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`on specifically in the autonomous vehicles was a
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`shock isolation system?
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` A Yes, that's right.
`14
` Q What is a shock isolation system?
`15
` A So in this instance, this related to the
`16
`fact at the time of the first DARPA Grand
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`Challenges, that's DARPA for Defense Advanced
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`Research Projects Agency, computer technologies
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`there was a separate large unit that housed
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`American National Manufacturing, Inc.
`Exhibit 1066
`IPR2019-00514
`Page 6
`
`

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`CONFIDENTIAL INFORMATION REDACTED
`Transcript of William C. Messner, Ph.D.
`Conducted on January 8, 2020
`21
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`1100 pounds, it rode on top of the vehicle.
` And anyway, that thing would get bounced
`around. So there was a need for a way to isolate
`the movement of the chassis from this large, about
`1100-pound box, and so the shock isolation system
`was for that.
` Q Is the shock isolation system of the
`autonomous vehicle more or less complex than the
`air mattress systems at issue in the current
`matters?
` A Well, I mean, the shock isolation system
`really only dealt with passive shock isolation.
`There were multiple components requiring a bit of
`design work. At the same time, there was no
`active control. The system just sat on top of the
`shock isolation system -- sorry, the box sat on
`top of the shock isolation system.
` So in one aspect, I'd say it was more
`complex, there were more components. There
`were -- it operated under much more severe
`conditions, but there was no software, there was
`no processor, nothing like that.
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`knee, included the joint matter, the ligaments,
` Q The autonomous vehicle obviously had a
`the meniscus, the cartilage, the bones, some of
`processor involved with it, right, though?
`the fleshy parts around it, and we would mount it
` A Yes. Yes, of course, but you asked
`in a flexing mechanism, and that flexing mechanism
`specifically about the shock isolation system.
`was situated in a nutrient medium. And this would
` Q I did, yeah. Fair enough. Yeah.
`keep the tissues alive, and we could subject this
` Let's see. In going, I think, what would
`mouse knee to controlled mechanical and
`be later in time, you did some research on atomic
`biochemical conditions.
`force microscopes?
` And then after a period of week or two
` A That's right.
`weeks or something, we'd remove the knee, and we
` Q And can you define what an atomic force
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`would -- when I say "we," the students, remove the
`microscope is for me, please, Doctor?
`11
`knee, treat it, section it, stain it, and see what
` A Could you just point me to where that is
`12
`the effect of the various conditions were on the
`in the --
`13
`tissues.
` Q You bet. Page 4, very top line.
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` A Oh, okay. Thank you. Sorry. I skipped
` Q I agree with you. That is cool.
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` A Yeah.
`right over it.
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` Q I wish I had something like that when I
` Q There's a lot of paragraphs. That's fine.
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` A Yeah. No, I just -- so that was later in
`was in engineering school.
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` A It was very creepy, too, to watch it
`time. That was after I moved from Carnegie Mellon
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`operate.
`University to Tufts University. Atomic force
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`microscope is a system that actually drags a
` Q And the next question you can expect, was
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`very -- or touches a surface with a very sharp,
`that more or less complex than the air mattresses
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`tiny essentially needle, would act as a probe, and
`it can resolve features at atomic resolution, so
`on the order of less than a nanometer. Is that
`sufficient for your --
` Q Mm-hmm (affirmative). And is an atomic
`force microscope more or less complex than the air
`mattress systems at issue in the current matters?
` A I would say that they were more complex,
`yes.
` Q And then bioreactors for whole joints for
`osteoarthritis research, what was involved with
`that?
` A Well, this was a really interesting one.
`So the field of osteoarthritis --
` Q Okay.
` A -- or treatments for osteoarthritis are
`very limited, and so one of the big problems is
`that there's a dearth of systems for actually
`doing research under realistic conditions on
`living tissues.
` And so what we developed here was a way of
`taking an excised mouse knee, so it was an intact
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`American National Manufacturing, Inc.
`Exhibit 1066
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`Page 7
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`CONFIDENTIAL INFORMATION REDACTED
`Transcript of William C. Messner, Ph.D.
`Conducted on January 8, 2020
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` A Well --
` MS. NATH: Objection to characterization
`of testimony.
` A Yeah, I -- thank you. I disagree with
`that. I mean, you asked about a relative degree
`of complexity.
`BY MR. ELLIOTT:
`Q Mm-hmm (affirmative).
` A And so I don't think that it's that
`straightforward, and because there are some
`special considerations for air mattress systems
`such as, well, you make a lot of them, right,
`compared to, say, the robotic assistance project
`that we're doing. So there's different
`considerations relative to the projects I've
`mentioned that you've asked me about.
` Q Well, we mass produce a lot of things in
`this country, right?
` A A lot of things are mass produced in this
`country, a lot of things are mass produced in
`other countries, absolutely.
` Q What did you do to prepare for today's
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`at issue in the current matter?
` A I would say it was more complex. I mean,
`the -- certainly, the project as a whole was more
`complex. There were fewer parts, moving parts,
`but -- and there was very little sensing, but the
`operation, you know, since it included a number
`of -- it operated over a long period of time,
`relatively speaking. I'd say that aspect was more
`complex.
` Q And then there's also robotic assistance
`for daily living activities. Could you explain
`for me, please, what that all entailed?
` A Yes. So this is another very interesting
`project, in my opinion. So this project related
`to people with a high-level spinal cord injury,
`people with injury to their cervical 4 to cervical
`7 vertebrae.
` Those people have no use of their lower
`limbs and limited to no use of their upper limbs,
`and so our efforts were on how to assist such
`people with robotic systems for activities of
`daily living, such as getting a drink from
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`refrigerator, making a microwave meal, picking up
`something off the floor.
` We initially started with a large
`commercial robot mounted on a power base of an
`electric wheelchair. Then we moved to a more -- a
`much smaller system that we customized. We
`basically roboticized a mini shopping cart, and we
`distributed the -- some of the tasks to a module.
` So it was a specialized module that was
`retrofit onto the refrigerator to open close the
`refrigerator, specialized module to open and close
`the microwave. We developed a specialized module
`for picking up something off the floor, rather
`than using a big bulky expensive robot arm.
` Q Was that project more or less complex than
`the air mattress systems at issue in the current
`matters?
` A I would say that it was more complex.
` Q So the subject matter of the air mattress
`systems presents a fairly straightforward
`application in mechanical and electrical
`engineering, correct?
`
`deposition, Dr. Messner?
` A I reread my report, I looked over some of
`the prior art that's been cited, I met with
`counsel.
` Q Which counsel did you meet with?
` A I met with Ms. Nath, I met with Mr. Toft.
` Q And which prior art references did you
`review?
` A Oh, gee whiz, you know, I don't think I
`can recall all of them. I can certainly list off
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`some of the ones I looked at.
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` Q Just which ones do you recall would be
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`fine.
`13
` A Oh, well, I looked at the Shafer
`14
`reference, the Vrzalik reference, the Grant
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`reference, the Kashiwamura --
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` Q I can't pronounce that one either.
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` A Yeah, sorry. Dye -- did I already say
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`Vrzalik? I can't remember.
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` Q Vrzalik, yeah.
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` A Vrzalik. The Cammack reference, the
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`IPR2019-00514
`Page 8
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`

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`CONFIDENTIAL INFORMATION REDACTED
`Transcript of William C. Messner, Ph.D.
`Conducted on January 8, 2020
`29
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` A I don't recall. I don't think so, but I
`don't recall at this moment.
` Q Who drafted your report that's currently
`marked as Exhibit 1?
` A Well, it was a joint effort between me and
`counsel. I mean, it's my report. The procedure
`was that, discussed with counsel my opinions, they
`would produce a draft, I would review it, I'd
`change it, I'd add things, sometimes subtract
`things if I felt it was not stating things
`accurately. And there was a back and forth until
`the final report was produced.
` Q And so the initial draft was prepared by
`counsel?
` A You know, with respect to -- I probably
`received a document that had some of the opinions
`stated, and then I -- you know, for instance, the
`some of the opinions, some of the legal aspects I
`reviewed, modified, returned, and this was an
`iterative process.
` Q And so did counsel also provide input into
`the report?
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` Q You'll have to teach me how to pronounce
`that one, because I think you've got that one
`right.
` A Yeah, I'm not sure if I'm pronouncing it
`right, but in any case, those are the ones I
`recall at the moment, but...
` Q Have you ever spoken to Mr. Shafer?
` A No. I think you asked me that before, but
`I have not.
` Q What about Mr. Duval?
` A No.
` MS. NATH: Asked and answered.
`BY MR. ELLIOTT:
` Q Have you ever spoken to Mr. Vrzalik?
` A No.
` Q Were you aware that Mr. Vrzalik had his
`deposition taken in the last year?
` A I think I was aware of that. I recall
`hearing something about it, but I -- but that's
`all I know.
` Q So you've never reviewed that deposition
`transcript?
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` A I don't remember, to tell you the truth.
`You know, I'm not sure I reviewed the whole -- I
`seem to recall that I was -- I looked at a piece
`of the deposition testimony, but gosh, my memory's
`pretty fuzzy on that one right now.
` Q Did you rely on it at all in forming your
`opinions that are in your report?
` A I might have.
` Q Do you remember anything about the
`portions of it that you may have reviewed?
` A Offhand, I just don't remember.
` Q Have you ever spoken to James Gifft?
` A I don't think so.
` Q And you know who James Gifft is, correct?
` A As I understand, he's one of the inventors
`on the '172 patent.
` Q Have you ever spoken to Robert Nunn?
` A No, I don't believe so.
` Q Have you ever spoken to John Abraham?
` A I don't think so.
` Q Have you ever reviewed any of
`Dr. Abraham's reports?
`
` A I'm not sure what you mean by "input."
` Q Did they revise any of it?
` A Oh, I see what you're saying. Well, any
`revisions that were made, I think they were -- at
`times, they may have modified a sentence or two or
`something like that, or part of a section. I
`would look it over, see if it stated my opinion
`accurately, and then if it did, I would approve
`it. If it did not, I would modify it.
` (Mr. Brian Bear enters the proceedings at
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`BY MR. ELLIOTT:
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` Q So from the people that you learned the
`13
`air adjustable mattress industry from, were there
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`any that did not have a Bachelor's in some
`15
`engineering discipline?
`16
` A Well, I spoke with Mr. Mahoney. So to the
`17
`extent that he had any, I believe he had a
`18
`Bachelor's degree in engineering, but I can't
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`recall off the top of my head.
`20
` Q So was Mahoney the only one you spoke to
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`IPR2019-00514
`Page 9
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`

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`CONFIDENTIAL INFORMATION REDACTED
`Transcript of William C. Messner, Ph.D.
`Conducted on January 8, 2020
`33
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`9 (33 to 36)
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`BY MR. ELLIOTT:
` Q Has anyone provided with you a summary or
`described to you the deposition testimony given by
`anyone in this proceeding?
` A I don't -- sorry. Could you repeat the
`question?
` Q Sure. Has anyone provided you with a
`summary or described to you the deposition
`testimony given by anyone in this proceeding?
` A Okay. I certainly have been provided a
`summary.
` MS. NATH: I'm going to object to the
`extent it calls for privileged information.
`BY MR. ELLIOTT:
` Q You can go ahead and answer the question.
` MS. NATH: I mean, I don't know. Are you
`going to disclose anything privileged? I don't
`know --
` THE WITNESS: I don't intend to. I'm just
`trying to see if that was a --
`BY MR. ELLIOTT:
` Q I think you can answer the question
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`as a technical person?
` A Yes, as I recall at the moment.
` Q Did you take any notes of your
`conversations with Mr. Mahoney?
` A I don't think I took any notes.
` Q I honestly don't know off the top of my
`head. Did you identify Mr. Mahoney in your report
`as somebody that you spoke to?
` A I don't think I identified him in the --
`in the report. I believe in the supplemental, he
`may be identified there.
` Q And why didn't you identify him in your
`report that's now marked as Exhibit 1?
` A No particular reason. I certainly wasn't
`trying to hide anything.
` Q Are you aware that Mr. Shafer gave
`deposition testimony in the ITC proceeding?
` A I may have been made aware of it. I don't
`recall.
` Q Have you -- did you ever review that
`transcript?
` A Again, right at this moment, I don't
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`recall.
` Q Were you aware that Mr. Duval was deposed
`in the ITC proceeding?
` A I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I don't
`think so.
` Q Do you know, did you ever review the
`transcript from that deposition of Mr. Duval?
` A I don't recall.
` Q Have you reviewed any of the depositions
`given so far in this proceeding?
` A Yes, I reviewed the deposition of
`Dr. Giachetti, if I said that right.
` Q I think it's Giachetti, but --
` MS. NATH: It's Giachetti, per him.
` MR. ELLIOTT: Say again for me.
` MS. NATH: Giachetti.
` MR. ELLIOTT: Giachetti?
` MS. NASH: Giachetti, yes.
` A And I believe I -- yeah. Well, I
`certainly reviewed his, and I'm trying to recall
`if I reviewed anything of Mr. Mahoney, but I don't
`recall.
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`without disclosing anything privileged.
` A Repeat the question. I'm so sorry.
` Q Were you provided with a summary or a
`description of the deposition testimony given by
`anyone in this proceeding?
` A It's possible I was provided with some
`description. I certainly wasn't provided with any
`written summary or anything like that.
` Q And that was provided by counsel, though?
` MS. NATH: Objection to characterization.
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` A Yes. So the -- if anything was provided
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`recall any such thing being provided.
`13
`BY MR. ELLIOTT:
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` Q Whose testimony did you receive a
`15
`description of?
`16
` MS. NATH: Objection to characterization.
`17
` A Again, I don't recall receiving any
`18
`description.
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`BY MR. ELLIOTT:
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` Q Okay. I apologize, I misunderstood. I
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`IPR2019-00514
`Page 10
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`CONFIDENTIAL INFORMATION REDACTED
`Transcript of William C. Messner, Ph.D.
`Co