`
`Transcript of John Patrick
`Abraham, Ph.D.
`
`Date: December 18, 2019
`Case: American National Manufacturing Inc. -v- Sleep Number Corporation, et al.
`(PTAB)
`
`Planet Depos
`Phone: 888.433.3767
`Email:: transcripts@planetdepos.com
`www.planetdepos.com
`
`WORLDWIDE COURT REPORTING & LITIGATION TECHNOLOGY
`
`American National Manufacturing, Inc.
`Exhibit 1065
`IPR2019-00514
`Page 1
`
`

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`Transcript of John Patrick Abraham, Ph.D.
`Conducted on December 18, 2019
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` A P P E A R A N C E S
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`REPRESENTING THE PETITIONER:
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` Mr. Jaspal Singh Hare
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` Attorney at Law
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` Spencer Fane LLP
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` 5700 Granite Parkway, Suite 650
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` Plano, TX 75024-6622
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` jhare@spencerfane.com
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` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
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` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
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`--------------------------------------------------
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`AMERICAN NATIONAL
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`MANUFACTURING INC.,
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` Petitioner, IPR2019-00497
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`v. U.S. PATENT 8,769,747
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`SLEEP NUMBER CORPORATION IPR2019-00500
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`f/k/a SELECT COMFORT U.S. PATENT 9,737,154
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`CORPORATION, IPR2019-00514
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` Patent Owner. U.S. PATENT 5,904,172
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` Mr. Brian T. Bear
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`--------------------------------------------------
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` Attorney at Law
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` VIDEO DEPOSITION OF
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` Spencer Fane LLP
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` JOHN PATRICK ABRAHAM, Ph.D.
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` 1000 Walnut Street, Suite 1400
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` MINNEAPOLIS, MINNESOTA
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` Kansas City, MO 64106-2140
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` WEDNESDAY, DECEMBER 18, 2019
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` bbear@spencerfane.com
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` 9:06 A.M.
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`JOB NO.: 275005
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`PAGES: 1 - 190
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`REPORTED BY: PATRICK J. MAHON, RMR, CRR
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`APPEARANCES, continued:
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`REPRESENTING THE PATENT OWNER:
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` Ms. Archana Nath
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` Attorney at Law
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` Mr. Luke Toft
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` Attorney at Law
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` Fox Rothschild LLP
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` 222 South 9th Street, Suite 2000
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` DEPOSITION OF JOHN PATRICK ABRAHAM, Ph.D.,
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`HELD AT THE OFFICES OF:
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` 222 SOUTH 9TH STREET
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` MINNEAPOLIS, MINNESOTA 55402-3338
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` Pursuant to Notice, before Patrick J.
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`Mahon, Notary Public in and for the County of
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`ALSO PRESENT:
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`Hennepin, State of Minnesota.
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` Mr. Kyle Stolis, Videographer
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`PLANET DEPOS
`888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
`
`American National Manufacturing, Inc.
`Exhibit 1065
`IPR2019-00514
`Page 2
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`

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`Transcript of John Patrick Abraham, Ph.D.
`Conducted on December 18, 2019
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`EXHIBITS, continued:
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`EXHIBIT/DESCRIPTION PAGE
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`Exhibit 6................................... 122
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` diagrams
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` Sleep Number Corp - EXHIBIT 2080 -
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` IPR2019-00514 - Page 1 - Page 2
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` EXHIBIT 2081 - IPR2019-00514 -
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` EXHIBIT 2082 - IPR2019 - 00514 -
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` I N D E X
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`EXAMINATION:
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` BY MR. HARE - PAGE 10
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` BY MS. NATH - PAGE 162
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` BY MR. BEAR - PAGE 176
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`EXHIBITS:
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`NUMBER/DESCRIPTION PAGE
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`Exhibit 1................................... 58
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` Patent Number: 5,904,172
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` American National Manufacturing,
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` Inc. - EX 1001 - Page 1 - Page 17)
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` EXHIBIT 2083 - IPR2019 - 00514 -
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` Patent No.: US 8,769,747 B2
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`Exhibit 7................................... 160
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` American National Manufacturing,
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` Patent Owner's Motion To
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` Inc. - EX 1001 - Page 1 - Page 16
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` Amend, Patent 8,769,747 B2
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`Exhibit 3................................... 73
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` (31 pages)
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` Patent No.: US 9,737,154 B2
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`Exhibit 8................................... 160
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` American National Manufacturing,
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` Patent Owner's Motion To
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` Inc. - EX 1001 - Page 1 - Page 20
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` Amend, Patent 9,737,154 B2
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` (38 pages)
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` (continued...)
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`EXHIBITS, continued:
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`EXHIBIT/DESCRIPTION PAGE
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`Exhibit 9................................... 176
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` email correspondence
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`EXHIBITS, continued:
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`EXHIBIT/DESCRIPTION PAGE
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`Exhibit 4................................... 94
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` Declaration of Dr. John Abraham
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` In Support Of Patent Owner's
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` Response, Patent No. 5,904,172
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` Sleep Number Corp. EXHIBIT 2041
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` IRP2019-00514, Page 1 - Page 96
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` Declaration Of Dr. John Abraham
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` Response, Patent No. 5,904,172
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` Sleep Number Corp. EXHIBIT
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` 2041, IPR 2019-00514, Page 1 - 56
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` (continued...)
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`PLANET DEPOS
`888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
`
`American National Manufacturing, Inc.
`Exhibit 1065
`IPR2019-00514
`Page 3
`
`

`

`Transcript of John Patrick Abraham, Ph.D.
`Conducted on December 18, 2019
`9
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`3 (9 to 12)
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`please.
` A Yes. It's John, J-o-h-n, Patrick,
`P-a-t-r-i-c-k, Abraham, A-b-r-a-h-a-m.
` Q Could you state your full name in one go?
` A Pardon? Could you restate the question?
` Q Oh. Could you just state your name in one
`go?
` A John Patrick Abraham.
` Q Thank you. What's your address?
` A My address is 4232 29th Avenue South,
`Minneapolis, Minnesota 55406.
` Q Is that your home address or your work
`address?
` A That is my home address.
` Q Okay. Thank you.
` Do you have a work address?
` A I do.
` Q What's your work address?
` A I work at the University of St. Thomas,
`which is at 2115 Summit Avenue, S-u-m-m-i-t,
`St. Paul, Minnesota 55105.
` Q All right. I'd like to go over a few
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` P R O C E E D I N G S
` WHEREUPON, the following proceedings were
`duly had:
` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Here begins disk number
`1 in the videotaped deposition of Dr. John
`Abraham, in the matter of American National
`Manufacturing Inc. versus Sleep Number
`Corporation, et al., in the United States Patent
`and Trademark Office, before the Patent Trial and
`Appeal Board, case numbers IPR2019-00497, -00500,
`and -00514.
` Today's date is Wednesday, December 18th,
`2019, at approximately 9:04 a.m.
` The videographer today is Kyle Stolis,
`representing Planet Depos.
` This video deposition is taking place at
`the law office of Fox Rothschild LLP in
`Minneapolis, Minnesota.
` Would counsel please voice identify
`themselves and state whom they represent.
` MR. HARE: My name is Jaspal Hare with
`Spencer Fane. We represent Petitioner, American
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`National.
`ground rules before we start. I'll be asking you
` MR. BEAR: Brian Bear on behalf of
`questions that will be recorded by the court
`Petitioner, American National.
`reporter; do you understand?
` A Yes.
` MS. NATH: Archana Nath on behalf of
`Patent Owner, Sleep Number Corporation.
` Q Do you understand that you need to speak
` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Thank you.
`up so the court reporter can record your answers?
` A I do.
` The court reporter today is Patrick Mahon,
`representing Planet Depos.
` Q Do you understand that you need to keep
` Would the reporter please swear in the
`your answers clear and verbal, as nods and shakes
`witness.
`cannot be recorded?
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` A I do.
` (The oath was administered by the
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`reporter.)
` Q Do you understand that you're under oath?
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` A I do.
` WITNESS RESPONSE: I do.
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` JOHN PATRICK ABRAHAM, Ph.D.,
` Q Do you understand that that oath requires
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`a witness in the above-entitled proceedings, after
`you to provide complete and candid answers to my
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`having been first duly sworn deposed under oath as
`questions?
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` A I do.
`follows:
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` EXAMINATION
` Q Do you also understand that requires you
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`BY MR. HARE:
`to answer my questions, not your own questions, or
`19
` Q Good morning. How are you doing?
`provide information that is not responsive to my
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` A Very well. Thank you.
`questions?
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` A Can you restate that question?
` Q Could you state your name for the record,
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`PLANET DEPOS
`888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
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`American National Manufacturing, Inc.
`Exhibit 1065
`IPR2019-00514
`Page 4
`
`

`

`Transcript of John Patrick Abraham, Ph.D.
`Conducted on December 18, 2019
`13
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` Q Do you understand that your oath requires
`you to answer my questions, not your own
`questions?
` A I do.
` MS. NATH: Object to the characterization
`of what the oath requires. Go ahead.
`BY MR. HARE:
` Q So, for example, if I ask a yes or no
`question, do you know how to answer a yes or no
`question?
` A I would have to hear the question that
`you're asking.
` Q Do you understand the penalty for
`violating your oath?
` A I do.
` Q What's your understanding?
` A Well, violating the oath would be a crime.
`That's my understanding.
` Q Okay. I'm going to try to ask clear,
`plain English questions, or if you don't
`understand my question, please don't answer it and
`let me know. Okay?
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`4 (13 to 16)
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` Q Do you have any questions over the
`procedure we'll follow today?
` A None at this time.
` Q Have you ever been deposed before?
` A I have.
` Q Approximately how many times?
` A Approximately 14.
` Q Generally, what was the nature of those
`depositions? For example, were they patent
`matters or other types of law?
` A I have been deposed in patent matters, and
`I have been deposed in other matters of law.
` Q Okay. About how many of your depositions
`were on patent matters? And you can estimate.
` A Perhaps eight to ten.
` Q Do you have experience outside of this
`current proceeding, or this current set of
`proceedings, with PTO or IPR matters?
` A Yes.
` Q Do you know the caption or the case number
`of the last matter in the PTO that you were a part
`of?
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` A Yes.
` Q If you realize at some point that your
`answer is inaccurate or incomplete, will you also
`please let me know?
` A I will.
` Q Also, if you're answering a question and
`you think of a document that may be helpful in
`answering that, please let me know, because we may
`have it here.
` A Thank you.
` Q I generally like to take breaks every
`hour, maybe hour and a half. If you need a break
`earlier, we'll try our best to accommodate you. I
`would just ask that you answer the pending
`question. Is that okay?
` A It is. Thank you.
` Q Is there any reason you cannot testify
`fully and accurately today?
` A No.
` Q You're not on any drugs or alcohol that
`would affect your testimony?
` A I am not.
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` A I don't know what the acronym "PTO" means,
`sitting here now, but I have been involved in
`other IPR litigations.
` Q When I say PTO, I mean, the United States
`Patent and Trademark Office.
` A Thank you for that clarification.
` Q Do you understand it's commonly referred
`to as USPTO or PTO; correct?
` A That is how I understand it.
` Q Okay. And then IPR, that's inter partes
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`review; do you understand that?
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` A I do.
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` Q All right. And just to make sure we're
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`proceeding, we're talking about the three IPR
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`proceedings instituted by American National
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`challenging Sleep Number patents. And I'm just
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`going to read those IPR numbers into the record.
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`The first is IPR2019-00514 involving U.S. Patent
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`5,904,172. If I refer to that as the -514
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`proceeding or the proceeding involving the '172
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`patent, does that make sense?
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`PLANET DEPOS
`888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
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`American National Manufacturing, Inc.
`Exhibit 1065
`IPR2019-00514
`Page 5
`
`

`

`Transcript of John Patrick Abraham, Ph.D.
`Conducted on December 18, 2019
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` A I would say I'm more familiar -- it would
`be helpful to me if you would refer to that as the
`'172, because I think of these in terms of the
`last three numbers of the patent.
` Q Okay. Fair enough. We can probably give
`you a cheat sheet, Post-it note for which ones
`correspond to which one.
` The next one is IPR2019-00497. That one
`relates to the 8,769,747 patent. Are you familiar
`with that proceeding?
` A Yes, I am.
` Q Okay. If we refer to that as the -497
`proceeding or the proceeding involving the '747
`patent, does that make sense?
` A That does make sense, but if you refer to
`it as the '747, I would know which one you're
`talking about. The first set of three numbers
`might confuse me, because I'm not familiar with
`the full numbers in the IPR proceedings.
` Q Understood. We'll do our best to use both
`or one or the other, or the one you prefer.
` Okay. And the last one is IPR2019-00500
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`you recall?
` A The parties were Fluke, F-l-u-k-e, and
`Ametek, A-m-e-t-e-k.
` Q Is that proceeding currently pending?
` A No.
` Q What was the outcome of that proceeding?
` A The validity of the patent was upheld.
` Q Which party retained you?
` A I was retained by the patent owner.
` Q Ametek; is that correct?
` A Yes.
` Q And you said it was a positive outcome for
`your client; correct?
` A I would say that I was retained by the
`patent owner, I represented their position, and
`the patent was upheld and were maintained.
` Q In that matter--I'm just reading from your
`resume--you drafted an expert declaration and you
`were deposed; correct?
` A That is my recollection.
` Q All right. After that deposition, did you
`have any role in the proceeding?
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` A Not that I recall.
`relating to the 9,737,154 patent. And if we refer
` Q Okay. You did not testify at the hearing
`to that as the -500 proceeding or the proceeding
`or anything?
`involving the '154 patent, does that make sense?
` A I did not.
` A It does, and I would give the same answer,
`that I'm more comfortable with you referring to it
` Q All right. I just want to go over,
`with the last four digits of the patent, which
`briefly, your background, kind of what's on your
`would be '154. But, yes, I'm familiar with that.
`resume. And I'll just try to do this
`chronologically and see if we can do this quickly.
` Q Outside of these proceedings, how many PTO
`Where did you grow up?
`proceedings have you been involved in?
` A In Minnesota.
` A When you say "PTO proceedings," do you
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`mean IPR proceedings?
` Q Okay. Did you go to high school in
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`Minnesota?
` Q That would be one of them, but there's
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` A I did.
`also -- you may be familiar with Covered Business
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`Method reviews or reexamination proceedings that
` Q Okay. What city?
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` A Fridley, F-r-i-d-l-e-y.
`are -- but generally, IPRs are probably the most
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`common today.
` Q And what year did you graduate?
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` A 1992.
` A I don't recall being involved in any PTO
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`proceedings that were not IPRs. The full extent
` Q All right. After that, after graduating,
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`what did you do?
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` A I went to university.
`CV. Sitting here now, I recall at least one IPR
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`proceeding.
` Q Where did you go?
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` A I went to the University of Minnesota and
` Q What's the caption of that proceeding, if
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`PLANET DEPOS
`888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
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`American National Manufacturing, Inc.
`Exhibit 1065
`IPR2019-00514
`Page 6
`
`

`

`Transcript of John Patrick Abraham, Ph.D.
`Conducted on December 18, 2019
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` A Both are good schools. Notre Dame is
`sometimes considered a prestigious school, perhaps
`more prestigious than the University of Minnesota.
`It has a very good physics program. It's a
`smaller program, so that the classes are smaller.
`It's also more expensive.
` So I was debating switching between
`engineering and physics at the time. I thought
`that Notre Dame might be a place where I could get
`a high-quality physics degree in an environment
`that I would enjoy attending school. That's what
`I recall.
` Q What do you recall about your decision,
`then, to return to Minnesota from Notre Dame?
` A Notre Dame is expensive. And physics,
`while I like physics and I loved physics, physics
`is a very difficult field to find a career in. So
`I re-evaluated my choice, and I decided that the
`University of Minnesota engineering program was a
`better value for me and a better decision for my
`career aspirations.
` Q All right. So in 2002, you finished your
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`the University of Notre Dame.
` Q Did you go to both of them at the same
`time, or did you do one first, then the other?
` A I did not attend both simultaneously. I
`attended the University of Minnesota initially.
`Later, I transferred to Notre Dame, and then
`subsequently, I transferred back to the University
`of Minnesota.
` Q Okay. What years were you first at the
`University of Minnesota?
` A 1992.
` Q And what year did you leave to go to Notre
`Dame?
` A I believe -- well, it was approximately
`1994.
` Q Then what year did you leave Notre Dame?
` A I believe it was the next year that I
`returned to the University of Minnesota.
` Q So about '95 you --
` A That's approximately correct.
` Q How long were you at the University of
`Minnesota until?
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` A Till 2002, I believe.
` Q And what degrees did you obtain during
`that time?
` A I obtained a Bachelor of Science degree in
`the field of mechanical engineering, with a minor
`in mathematics. I obtained a master's degree in
`the field of mechanical engineering, with a
`specialty in what's called thermofluid sciences,
`which really deals with the topics of heat and
`fluid flow. And when we use the term "fluid," we
`mean gasses or liquids. So air, for example,
`would be a fluid, water would be a fluid, oil
`would be a fluid, et cetera. I obtained a Ph.D.
`from the University of Minnesota, also in the area
`of thermofluid sciences, or thermal sciences. The
`discipline was mechanical engineering as well.
` Q Okay. When you were at Notre Dame, what
`did you study?
` A Physics.
` Q What's the gist of the reason of why you
`went from Minnesota to Notre Dame and back to
`Minnesota, if any?
`
`formal education; is that fair to say?
` A It might have been 2001, but I believe I
`finished my -- sitting here now without reviewing
`my CV, I believe it was 2002.
` Q And what did you do after that?
` A After obtaining my Ph.D., I joined the
`faculty at the University of St. Thomas in a
`position that's called an assistant professor
`position, which is a position that's called Tenure
`Track. So you're essentially a professor on
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`probation. I was an assistant professor for the
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`probationary period of approximately six years,
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`after which I was promoted to associate professor,
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`which was a tenured position. For another time
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`period of, I think, five years, after which I was
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`promoted to full professor, which is the highest
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`level a faculty member can achieve, while at St.
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`Thomas and performing my professorial duties, I
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`also have been an industrial consultant for
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`various companies.
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` Q So while you were an assistant professor,
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`associate professor, professor, what's the gist of
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`American National Manufacturing, Inc.
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`IPR2019-00514
`Page 7
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`

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`Transcript of John Patrick Abraham, Ph.D.
`Conducted on December 18, 2019
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`your job responsibilities?
` MS. NATH: Object to form.
`BY MR. HARE:
` Q And just to kind of lead you a little bit,
`I'm looking for something like, "I taught classes
`and maybe did research"?
` MS. NATH: Objection to the extent you're
`telling my client how to answer. But go ahead and
`answer.
` A A professor's responsibility is threefold:
`One, the main responsibility is to teach. I teach
`courses in what's called the thermofluid sciences,
`which I've described before, but is the science of
`how fluids, like air and water, flow, but also how
`heat flows. So I teach courses in that topic at
`both the undergraduate and graduate levels.
` In addition to that, a professor has an
`obligation to carry on a research agenda, and I've
`done that. So I have performed a number of
`research studies, and I have published the results
`of many of those studies. I believe I have a
`total of approximately 350 publication works,
`
`7 (25 to 28)
`
`27
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`break too.
` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We're off the record at
`9:32 a.m.
` (Short break.)
` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: And we are back on the
`record at 9:39 a.m.
`BY MR. HARE:
` Q Did you do anything to prepare for this
`deposition?
` A Yes.
` Q What did you do to prepare for this
`deposition?
` A Read my declaration and the materials
`referenced in that declaration. I met with
`counsel.
` Q Approximately how much time did you spend
`preparing for this deposition?
` A Two full workdays, yesterday and the day
`before, and then a few hours in addition to that,
`I would estimate.
` Q Are you being compensated for your time
`here?
`
`26
` A Can you clarify your question?
`which would include things like journal papers,
`conference presentations, books, book chapters.
` Q Are you getting paid by the hour to be
`Patents? I don't know if patents are typically
`here?
` A To be here today?
`included in scholarly -- they might be, but I have
`a few patents as well.
` Q Yes.
` A No.
` The third stool, the third leg of the
`stool of a professor is service, and that is
` Q Did you get paid by the hour or get paid
`service to the university and the community. So
`to do prep work?
` A Yes.
`throughout my work at the University of St.
`Thomas, I perform service within the university
` Q How much did you get paid?
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` A I believe my rate is listed in my
`and I also perform service to the scientific
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`declaration. I think it is $300 per hour. That's
`community outside of the university. So those
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`my recollection, but I believe it's stated in my
`three broad categories are my primary
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`declaration.
`responsibilities as a professor at the University
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`of St. Thomas.
` Q So you're not billing for today; is that
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`correct?
` MS. NATH: Before you continue asking
`16
` A I am not billing for the time during which
`questions, it looks like my realtime is not --
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`I'm being deposed.
`it's kind of stuck somewhere.
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` Q Approximately how much have you been paid
` MR. BEAR: Do you want to go off the
`19
`by Sleep Number with respect to these IPR matters?
`record?
`20
` A I would estimate 4 to $5,000.
` MS. NATH: Sure.
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` Q What activities did that payment cover for
` MR. HARE: Yeah. Why don't we take a
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`American National Manufacturing, Inc.
`Exhibit 1065
`IPR2019-00514
`Page 8
`
`

`

`Transcript of John Patrick Abraham, Ph.D.
`Conducted on December 18, 2019
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`you to undertake?
` A Inspection of devices, drafting my
`declaration, drafting what I call claim charts.
`They might be called infringement contentions. I
`think of them as claim charts. Conveying my
`opinions to attorneys.
` Q Did you perform any testing as part of
`your work for these IPRs?
` A Can you explain what you mean by
`"testing"?
` Q So, for example, much of your report
`covers -- and when I say "report," I'm talking
`about the declaration that you submitted in these
`IPRs. You talk about various pumps; right? Did
`you run those pumps, record data, or record how
`those pumps ran?
` A I did not.
` Q Were your declarations filed in these
`three proceedings -- just to be clear, you didn't
`run or test any of the pumps you describe in
`there; correct?
` MS. NATH: Asked and answered.
`
`8 (29 to 32)
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`BY MR. HARE:
` Q Did you fully assemble any beds, such as
`with the air bladders, with the hoses and all the
`various components that go into an air bed?
` A I did not fully assemble a bed.
` Q Do you recall the last time we met?
` A I do.
` Q When was that?
` A I do not know.
` Q Do you know approximately when that was?
` A Yes.
` Q What's your best guess?
` A My best guess would have been
`approximately January or February of this year.
` Q And where was that?
` A If I recall correctly, it was either in
`Texas or Kansas, but I'm not certain.
` Q What's the nature of why we were meeting,
`such as, were we at an inspection, or were we at a
`deposition?
` A We were not at a deposition. If I recall
`correctly, I was inspecting products.
`
`30
` A I did not turn the pumps on and run them.
`BY MR. HARE:
` Q So your answer is yes; correct?
` MS. NATH: Objection. Asked and answered.
` A I did not turn the pumps on and operate
`them or run them.
`BY MR. HARE:
` Q Turning the pumps on and operating them
`would be a predicate to testing a pump; correct?
` A It may or it may not be.
` Q But either way, you didn't turn them on
`and you didn't test them; correct?
` MS. NATH: Object to form.
` A I did not turn the pumps on and operate
`them.
`BY MR. HARE:
` Q You didn't test any pump either; correct?
` MS. NATH: Object to form and asked and
`answered.
` A I didn't turn any pumps on and I didn't
`operate them. For example, I didn't inflate any
`beds with any of the pumps.
`
` Q Do you recall what you were doing on
`December 4th, 2018? And I believe you were in
`Dallas at the offices of Sheppard Mullin, who's
`counsel for Tempur Sealy, and I was present there,
`I believe you were present there, I believe our
`expert, John Meyer, was present there?
` MS. NATH: Object to form.
` A Is there a question?
`BY MR. HARE:
` Q Yeah. Do you recall what you were doing
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`on December 4th, 2018?
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` A Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't realize there was
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`a question.
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` I don't recall. If you have a record that
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`I was at a meeting with you in December, then I
`15
`would have no reason to dispute it. It was my
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`memory, sitting here, that was around January or
`17
`February, but it could have been December.
`18
` Q Do you recall that inspection at Sheppard
`19
`Mullin?
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` A I recall an inspection which, according to
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`the information you've just provided, may have
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`IPR2019-00514
`Page 9
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`

`

`Transcript of John Patrick Abraham, Ph.D.
`Conducted on December 18, 2019
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`not in evidence and mischaracterizes testimony.
` A I do not recall what happened on
`December 4th, 2018.
`BY MR. HARE:
` Q Do you recall dismantling a pump on
`December 4th that was in Tempur Sealy's
`possession, and, in particular, you removed four
`screws holding in place the solenoids and then you
`couldn't get the screws back into place, then you
`proceeded to put the cover back on the pump
`without putting the screws back in place and the
`solenoids back in place where they were?
` MS. NATH: Object to form. Assumes facts
`not in evidence. Mischaracterizes testimony.
` A I do not recall any of the details of the
`pump inspection, the pump products. I just don't
`recall those details. That was a long time ago.
`BY MR. HARE:
` Q You don't recall I stopped you at that
`point and asked if you, indeed, got the screws
`back in place, and you confirmed that you did not?
` A I don't recall that.
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`been in December of 2018. So I do recall an
`inspection.
` Q Okay. Do you recall meeting me at that
`inspection?
` A I recall meeting you at an inspection that
`was either in Dallas, Texas, or it was in Kansas.
`It may have been December 4th, 2018, in Dallas.
` Q Between the meeting I'm describing in
`Dallas to present, I don't recall meeting you. Do
`you have any recollection of us meeting between
`those --
` A I do not.
` Q Okay. So it would be fair to say that's
`the last time we met?
` A I think it would be fair to say that would
`have been the only time we met.
` Q Okay. That's the same as my recollection.
` I can represent to you, based on looking
`at correspondence from Tuesday, December 4th,
`2018, that that was the day that we had the,
`quote-unquote, Tempur Sealy pump inspection, where
`the pumps that were in possession of Tempur Sealy
`34
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` Q Do you recall the pump was then not in the
`were inspected in Dallas at the offices of
`same condition as provided for inspection by
`Sheppard Mullin. Do you have any reason to
`Tempur Sealy and that that was a violation of
`disagree with that?
`Tempur's request that the pumps be put back the
` MS. NATH: I'll object to the extent that
`way they were found?
`you're referring to documents not in evidence, and
` A I do --
`the documents will speak for themselves.
` A What I would say is, I recall meeting you
` MS. NATH: Object to form.
` A I do not recall that.
`at an inspection, which, to my recollection, was
`in Texas or Kansas. I had estimated that it would
` MS. NATH: Outside the scope of the
`have been perhaps January or February. I recall
`declaration as well.
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`meeting you once. If you represent to me that the
`BY MR. HARE:
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`meeting actually occurred in December of the
` Q Do you recall a person named Mr. Fernando
`12
`preceding year, I would have no -- I have no
`Mendoza?
`13
` A That name does not sound familiar.
`reason to dispute that.
`14
`BY MR. HARE:
` Q Do you recall that he was with Office
`15
`Services, with Sheppard Mullin, who was also
` Q Do you recall inspecting pumps that were
`16
`present at that inspection?
`in the possession of Tempur Sealy's counsel?
`17
` A I don't recall who is Tempur Sealy's
` MS. NATH: Object to form.
`18
` A I do not recall.
`counsel. I recall inspecting products.
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`BY MR. HARE:
` Q Do you recall what happened on
`20
` Q Do you recall that I demanded that you
`December 4th while you were inspecting pumps?
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`cease inspection of the Tempur products on
` MS. NATH: Object to form. Assumes facts
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`American National Manufacturing, Inc.
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`IPR2019-00514
`Page 10
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`

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`Transcript of John Patrick Abraham, Ph.D.
`Conducted on December 18, 2019
`37
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`December 4th?
` A I do not recall that.
` Q Do you also recall prior to that that you
`were hovering over our expert, Dr. Meyer, pacing
`around Dr. Meyer and taking pictures at the same
`time he was trying to conduct the inspection of
`the pumps?
` MS. NATH: Object to form. Object to
`characterization of the happenings of the day.
`Assumes facts not in evidence.
` A I don't know what you mean by "hovering."
`BY MR. HARE:
` Q Do you recall I stopped the inspection and
`asked you to cease doing those things?
` MS. NATH: Same objections.
` A I do not recall.
`BY MR. HARE:
` Q And do you recall that you a