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`
`UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`--------------------------------------X
`AMERICAN NATIONAL MANUFACTURING INC.,
` Petitioner,
` v.
`SLEEP NUMBER CORPORATION,
`f/k/a SELECT COMFORT CORPORATION,
` Patent Owner.
`--------------------------------------X
` Cases
`IPR2019-00497 (Patent 8,769,747 B2)
`IPR2019-00500 (Patent 9,737,154 B2)
`
` CONTINUED DEPOSITION of DR. JOSHUA PHINNEY
` VOLUME II
` September 25, 2019
` New York, New York
`
`Reported by:
`Joseph Danyo V
`Job no: 26066
`
`TransPerfect Legal Solutions
`212-400-8845 - Depo@TransPerfect.com
`
`Sleep Number Corp.
`EXHIBIT 2042
`IPR2019-00500
`Page 1
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`

`

`Page 219
` CONTINUED DEPOSITION of DR. JOSHUA PHINNEY,
`held at the offices of Fox Rothschild, LLP, 101
`Park Avenue, 17th Floor, New York, New York, on
`September 25, 2019, at 9:00 a.m., before Joseph
`Danyo V, a Shorthand Reporter and Notary Public
`for the State of New York.
`
`Page 220
`
`APPEARANCES:
`
` SPENCER FANE LLP
` Attorneys for Petitioner
` 1000 Walnut Street, Suite 1400
` Kansas City, Missouri 64106
` BY: KYLE L. ELLIOTT, ESQ.
` kelliott@spencerfane.com
`
` KEVIN S. TUTTLE, ESQ.
` ktuttle@spencerfane.com
`
` PILLSBURY WINTHROP SHAW PITTMAN LLP
` Attorneys for Patent Owner
` 501 West Broadway, Suite 1100
` San Diego, California 92101
` BY: STEVEN A. MOORE, JD, Ph.D.
` steve.moore@pillsburylaw.com
`
` -AND-
`
` FOX ROTHSCHILD LLP
` 222 South Ninth Street, Suite 2000
` Minneapolis, Minnesota 55402
` BY: LUKE D. TOFT, ESQ.
` ltoft@foxrothschild.com
`
` * * *
`
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`
`1
` J. PHINNEY
`2 D R. J O S H U A P H I N N E Y,
`3
` the Witness herein, having first been
`4
` duly sworn by the Notary Public, was
`5
` examined and testified as follows:
`6
`EXAMINATION
`7
`BY MR. MOORE:
`8
` Q. Dr. Phinney, good morning. A couple
`9
`of questions for you before we start into the
`10
`specific claim limitations.
`11
` Yesterday we talked about your
`12
`understanding of obviousness; did we not?
`13
` A. Yes.
`14
` Q. You mentioned that your investigation
`15
`of obviousness starts with the claims; does it
`16
`not?
`17
` A. Yes.
`18
` Q. What do you do next?
`19
` A. Well, you know, the first step is
`20
`sort of just reading the patent and the claims,
`21
`and reading the claims in light of the
`22
`specification and moreover in light of the
`23
`disclosure.
`24
` So one of the first things I got was
`25
`the -- that file history, so I understand that
`Page 222
`
`1
` J. PHINNEY
`2
`the disclosure includes that as well, so, you
`3
`know, go look at that as well.
`4
` Q. What do you do after that?
`5
` A. Well, you know, practically speaking,
`6
`at this point I have a-- you know, in this case I
`7
`formed an opinion based on my understanding of a
`8
`-- the claims subject matter, and I had an
`9
`expectation to find references that would render,
`10
`you know, anticipate the asserted claims or
`11
`render that obvious.
`12
` Q. What do you do next?
`13
` A. I guess I maybe should have said that
`14
`if there was any specific meaning given to
`15
`specific words, that would have been something I
`16 would have tried to resolve by that time, but in
`17
`a practical manner, what I do is look at
`18
`different patents, you know, just see if I can
`19
`find references that express what I expected to
`20
`find; namely, references that were compensating
`21
`for the impedance of pneumatic systems in this
`22
`instance.
`23
` Q. After you look at those references
`24 what do you do?
`25
` A. Well, I -- you know, one thing is to,
`2 (Pages 219 to 222)
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`Page 223
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`Page 225
`
`1
` J. PHINNEY
`2
`you know, make a listing of the claims of
`3
`different elements and try to figure out, are we
`4
`dealing with a good disclosure in one of these
`5
`references.
`6
` You know, would one of these support
`7
`anticipation by either explicitly or inherently
`8
`providing all of the elements or are we really
`9
`faced with obviousness and for a combination
`10 where we need to, you know, combine a reference
`11 with a level of ordinary skill and/or other
`12
`references.
`13
` Q. Is that the end of the process or do
`14
`you do something else?
`15
` A. Those I think are like a lot of the
`16
`really important parts of it, to get an opinion
`17
`in my mind about what combination of references
`18
`could be invalidated.
`19
` There could be other steps, but then
`20
`I --
`21
` Q. What would those other steps be?
`22
` A. I'm trying to think of them.
`23
` Well, when considering different
`24
`pieces of prior art, you know, one thing is just
`25
`to, you know, read them in their entirety, just
`Page 224
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` J. PHINNEY
`and then I searched and found others, and then I
`also received others from counsel at a different
`time.
` So there was some that I found as
`being both within the same sort of cluster, and I
`found them on my own and also received them from
`counsel. I'm not sure about the timing from all
`that.
` Q. How about Ebel?
` A. I think Ebel falls in the same class
`as Pillsbury. You know, I was doing keyword
`searches and looking for citations and then
`following strings of citations among patents, and
`so I think it was -- I really can't recall if
`that's one -- you know, it was either one that I
`found and was provided by counsel. I think
`that's the best answer.
` Q. What were the keywords did you use to
`search?
` A. Keywords?
` MR. TUTTLE: Objection, form.
` A. I used different things like
`"pressure," "hose," "conduit." I used things
`like a two-word type of search like "sensor
`Page 226
`
`1
` J. PHINNEY
`2
`try to make sure I'm understanding what that's
`3
`saying in -- but that's a -- those I think are
`4
`the important steps that I took.
`5
` Q. Thank you. So you identified Gifft
`6
`as a primary reference; is that correct?
`7
` A. Yes.
`8
` Q. But you admit that Gifft doesn't
`9
`disclose each of the claimed elements of the '154
`10
`and '747 patents?
`11
` A. That is correct.
`12
` Q. How did you go about finding prior
`13
`art that disclosed dissertations?
`14
` A. Well, one thing that I did was to
`15
`search on Google Patents. You know, I'm looking
`16
`for keywords. I'm looking at patents that cite
`17
`to some of the patents in suit. In addition, I
`18 was provided references as well by counsel.
`19
` Q. Okay. Did you find Mittal or was it
`20
`provided by counsel?
`21
` A. That one was provided by counsel.
`22
` Q. How about Pillsbury?
`23
` A. Pillsbury, I think, was also provided
`24
`by counsel. It's one that also I also located,
`25
`because I recall I got initially two references,
`
`1
` J. PHINNEY
`2
`pressure."
`3
` You know, words that were trying to
`4
`get at, you know, different pressure readings on
`5
`either side of a hose; so there could be others.
`6
` Q. Did you combine Mittal with Gifft
`7
`because you believed it disclosed the missing
`8
`elements?
`9
` A. Yes. I think that's a fair
`10
`statement.
`11
` Q. Was there something about Mittal that
`12 was better in your opinion than Pillsbury?
`13
` MR. TUTTLE: Objection, form.
`14
` A. Well, maybe the best way to put this,
`15
`I think that -- you know, I tried to look at this
`16
`from the standpoint of a person of ordinary skill
`17
`having Gifft in hand, and I was thinking about
`18
`the -- you know, the motivation that that person
`19 would have to seek out other references.
`20
` So, you know, once I had come to the
`21
`conclusion that a person of ordinary skill would
`22
`be cognizant of the fact that pressure on either
`23
`side of a hose during filling and venting would
`24
`be different, that let me define different art.
`25
` And so with that in place, I think
`3 (Pages 223 to 226)
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`EXHIBIT 2042
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`1
` J. PHINNEY
`2
`that body of art are things that a person of
`3
`ordinary skill could consult to see how others in
`4
`other disciplines had handled the problem of a
`5
`different pressure sensor reading when that
`6
`sensor is remote from the volume being filled.
`7
` So I don't know that I'd say in that
`8
`process that one is better than the other,
`9
`because I think a person of ordinary skill would
`10
`be motivated to look at different references to
`11
`see how people had solved that problem in other
`12
`applications.
`13
` Q. So you found the trucking industry
`14 more compelling than the blood pressure cuff
`15
`industry?
`16
` MR. TUTTLE: Objection, form.
`17
` A. Well, what I'm trying to express is
`18
`that I think that, you know, the standpoint, the
`19
`shoes I'm trying to put myself in are a person of
`20
`ordinary skill having Gifft in hand, and then
`21
`they would be aware of a difference between
`22
`pressure in a chamber and then this sensor
`23
`pressure that is sensed at a point remotely.
`24
` Q. I'm sorry, Dr. Phinney. This kind of
`25
`needs to be a yes or no answer, if you would
`Page 228
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` J. PHINNEY
` And so I think that problem of
`compensating for this intervening pneumatic
`impedance was just-- was well known for many
`applications, and I think a person of ordinary
`skill would be motivated to find that body and
`collection of references.
` Q. Your analysis ignored the reference
`in the inflatable bed industry and preferred a
`trucking reference; is that right?
` MR. TUTTLE: Objection to form.
` A. I don't -- I wouldn't say that I -- I
`didn't include it in an affirmative combination,
`if that's what you mean.
` Q. Thank you.
` A. I didn't include Bhai I mean in an
`affirmative combination.
` Q. In your motivation to combine, I
`didn't see where you gave an explicit reason that
`a person of ordinary skill would look beyond the
`combination of Gifft and Mittal to find
`Pillsbury.
` Can you point me to that, the
`explicit motivation, to include Pillsbury in the
`prior combination?
`
`Page 230
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` J. PHINNEY
`please.
` Mittal is in the trucking industry of
`inflation of tires, and Pillsbury is in the blood
`pressure cuff industry.
` My question was, did you find the
`trucking industry a closer match or more
`compelling than the blood pressure cuff industry?
` MR. TUTTLE: Objection to form.
` A. I wouldn't say that. That's not --
` Q. Thank you. Bhai is in the same field
`as Gifft; is it not?
` MR. TUTTLE: Objection to form.
` A. Well, Bhai does deal with a bed
`application.
` Q. Does Bhai disclose offsets?
` A. I would say, yes, it does.
` Q. What about Bhai made you believe that
`a person of ordinary skill would ignore that
`reference in favor of a trucking reference?
` MR. TUTTLE: Objection, form.
` A. I don't think they would. What I'm
`trying to explain is that there is many
`references in many fields that use pressure
`offsets, including Bhai.
`
`1
` J. PHINNEY
`2
` A. So you're asking for something in my
`3
`report itself?
`4
` Q. That would be great.
`5
` A. Can I see a copy of my -- I mean the
`6
`'747 declaration.
`7
` Q. Here is the '154.
`8
` A. Okay.
`9
` Q. I'll get you the '747. Here, it is,
`10
`the '747.
`11
` A. So I point you to a couple of places.
`12 Number 1, I describe how I believe that a person
`13
`of ordinary skill would find a body of
`14
`references, yes.
`15
` Q. The declaration please.
`16
` A. Yes, and so, number 1, so I'm just
`17
`tying this back to what I told you earlier, that
`18
`a person of ordinary skill would find a body of
`19
`references, and indeed there is that.
`20
` There is a pervasive applications
`21
`offsets, including dynamic offsets in different
`22
`applications. So part of, I think the motivation
`23
`is just that sheer pervasiveness that I think
`24
`supports this idea of obviousness--
`25
` Q. Dr. Phinney, I'd like to know where
`4 (Pages 227 to 230)
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` J. PHINNEY
`your declaration?
` A. Yes, and I'm getting to that, so I'm
`just making sure you're understanding what I'm
`talking about.
` So in paragraph 45 of this -- this is
`Phinney Exhibit 14.
` First of all, to try to list many of
`these different applications where this is found,
`so that's one place.
` Then a second place would be, for
`instance, paragraph 100 is where I say -- the
`last two sentences of paragraph 100, I say:
` "This form of compensation using
` offsets was known specifically in the art
` for air mattress control." There I refer
` to Bhai. "As well as the general field of
` pneumatic controllers."
` And then I go on to say that:
` "For this reason a person of ordinary
` skill designing a pneumatic controller for
` an air bed would look to reference as an
` analogous, such as tire pressure
` controllers or blood pressure monitors."
` And that's where I -- that refers to
`
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` J. PHINNEY
` Q. Is it sufficient that a person of
`ordinary skill in the art know of the existence
`of the reference?
` A. Well, what I'm talking about is that
`a person of ordinary skill would have arrived --
` Q. I need a yes or no answer to that.
` A. -- would have arrived at that because
`of the awareness, their awareness of the
`difference between --
` Q. Dr. Phinney, I don't mean--
` MR. ELLIOTT: Objection,
` argumentative.
` MR. MOORE: Let's go off the record
` for a moment.
` [Discussion held off the record.]
` MR. MOORE: On the record.
` Q. Do the references of Gifft or Mittal
`suggest looking for another reference themselves?
` MR. TUTTLE: Objection, form.
` A. I can't answer yes or no.
` Q. Does Mittal suggest looking for
`Pillsbury?
` MR. TUTTLE: Objection, form.
` A. If I can just ask for a
`
`Page 232
`
`Page 234
`
`1
` J. PHINNEY
`2
`-- for instance, to Pillsbury.
`3
` Q. Dr. Phinney, that doesn't answer the
`4
`question I've asked. If you have a combination
`5
`of Mittal and Gifft in hand, where is the
`6 motivation to add Pillsbury specifically noted in
`7
`your declaration?
`8
` A. Right.
`9
` Q. These passages don't answer that.
`10
` A. No, they do. And so I pointed you
`11
`first to paragraph 45, so this refers to a body
`12
`of references which show just how common and
`13
`pervasive the use of offsets, including dynamic
`14
`offsets was.
`15
` In paragraph 45, I mention Pillsbury
`16
`is one of those examples. So a person of
`17
`ordinary skill would encounter all of these and
`18 would have Pillsbury in hand and just understand
`19
`that there is a collection of things to, you
`20
`know, solve this problem.
`21
` A second place where I say this is
`22
`here in paragraph 100, the sentences I'm
`23
`describing when I say "such as tire pressure
`24
`controllers and blood pressure monitors there,"
`25
`I'm referring to Pillsbury.
`
`1
` J. PHINNEY
`2
`clarification.
`3
` Q. Sure.
`4
` A. Are you saying like "Does it say"?
`5
` Q. Does it say you need to find another
`6
`reference such as Pillsbury?
`7
` A. Okay. That's the way I understood
`8
`your question. Okay, if that's the question,
`9
`then, no. It doesn't have -- it doesn't say go
`10
`look at Pillsbury.
`11
` Q. Does either Gifft or Mittal suggest
`12
`in that matter looking for Pillsbury?
`13
` MR. TUTTLE: Objection to form.
`14
` A. In that explicit matter, no.
`15
` Q. Does any passage of Pillsbury suggest
`16
`combining it with, Gifft and Mittal?
`17
` A. And again, suggest, you again mean
`18
`that explicit?
`19
` Q. Explicit teaching.
`20
` A. No.
`21
` Q. What benefit does Pillsbury confer on
`22 Gifft and Mittal?
`23
` MR. TUTTLE: Objection to form.
`24
` A. I included Pillsbury as sort of an
`25
`explanatory reference, because I explain how it
`5 (Pages 231 to 234)
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` J. PHINNEY
`has an explicit computation of error, an error
`term, though I think that is -- the equivalent of
`that is already present in Mittal; so I don't
`believe it confers a -- includes a minor benefit,
`you might say of being explicit in how it
`performs the computation.
` Q. Does Phinney provide any other
`benefit other than the express calculation of
`error?
` MR. TUTTLE: Objection to form.
` A. Do you mean does Pillsbury?
` Q. Yes, sorry. Does Pillsbury?
` A. I'm sorry. If you could ask the
`question again.
` Q. Sure. You said that Pillsbury
`provided the benefit of explicit calculation of
`error; did you not?
` A. That's -- yes.
` Q. Does it provide any other benefit?
` MR. TUTTLE: Objection to form.
` A. None that I used it for.
` Q. Thank you. Okay, in Phinney Exhibit
`14, which is your declaration on the '747, could
`you please go to your discussion of claim element
`Page 236
`
`1
` J. PHINNEY
`2
`1G, which is at paragraph 124.
`3
` A. I'm there.
`4
` Q. So claim element 1G states:
`5
` "Adjusting the pressure within the
`6
` air chamber until a sensed pressure within
`7
` the pump housing is substantially equal to
`8
` the calculating pressure target." Right?
`9
` A. Yes.
`10
` Q. Where do you find that in Mittal?
`11
` A. Well, one place is Mittal figure 5B
`12
`as well as the discussion in columns 22 of
`13 Mittal.
`14
` Q. Is it your position that when the
`15
`dynamic pressure is at or above target pressure
`16
`at step 296, then it is substantially equal?
`17
` A. Yes.
`18
` Q. Let's go to 10H.
`19
` MR. TOFT: Paragraph 174.
`20
` Q. Paragraph 174, you see what that says
`21
`here. It says, "See analysis for 1G above"; does
`22
`it not?
`23
` A. Yes.
`24
` Q. The language of 10H is different than
`25
`the language of 1G; is it not?
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`TransPerfect Legal Solutions
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`
` J. PHINNEY
` A. Yes.
` Q. So the language of 10H is:
` "Adjusting pressure within the air
` chamber until the sensed manifold pressure
` is within an acceptable pressure target
` error range of the calculated manifold
` pressure target."
` Is that accurate?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Did you ever deal with that language
`in your declaration?
` A. Explicitly where I discuss it, I
`don't know. I don't see it here in paragraph
`174.
` Q. So you have no opinion about this
`language?
` A. By -- that's not true, no.
` Q. Is your opinion in evidence?
` A. My opinion is that -- yes. Sorry.
`I'm trying to answer your questions yes or no.
` Q. Paragraph 174 is claim element 10H;
`is it not?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Okay. And what does it say?
`
`Page 238
`
` J. PHINNEY
` A. It says, see the analysis of claim 1G
`above.
` Q. Claim 1G here does not have that same
`language; does it?
` A. It does not.
` Q. Thank you. Let's go to claim 16I.
`16I is paragraph 200; is it not?
` A. Yes.
` Q. What does it say?
` A. It says, "See the analysis of claim
`element 10H above."
` Q. Does this add anything further to
`10H?
` A. No.
` Q. Just for the record here, you
`understand that the language is different in 16I
`and 10H from 1G; do you not?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Thank you. Let's go to Phinney
`Exhibit 1, and here we're looking for claim
`element 1C, which is found in paragraph 123.
` In claim element 1C it says:
` "Adjusting the pressure within the
` air chamber until a pressure is sensed
`6 (Pages 235 to 238)
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`1
` J. PHINNEY
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` within the pump housing is substantially
`3
` equal to the pressure target."
`4
` Does it not?
`5
` A. Yes.
`6
` Q. It's your opinion that Mittal teaches
`7
`that claim element; is that accurate?
`8
` A. Yes. I just would say that when I
`9
`summarized that claim though I would say Gifft
`10
`and Mittal and Pillsbury --
`11
` Q. Specifically, your assertion here is
`12
`that it is disclosed by Mittal or is it in Gifft?
`13
` A. You're correct. It is disclosed in
`14 Mittal.
`15
` Q. Thank you, and where specifically in
`16 Mittal?
`17
` A. So, again, Mittal column 22, the
`18
`references I provide here in paragraph 123 and
`19
`again, Mittal figure 5B, for instance.
`20
` Q. More specifically in 5B, is it your
`21
`assertion that when the pressure is at or below a
`22
`target pressure, the decision block 276, or at or
`23
`above a target pressure the decision block 298, I
`24
`believe -- yes.
`25
` Is it your assertion that those two
`
`Page 240
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`1
` J. PHINNEY
`2
`tests test for substantial equality?
`3
` MR. TUTTLE: Objection to form.
`4
` A. Yes.
`5
` Q. Let's go to 12F. 12F is at paragraph
`6
`185, and for your recollection, adjusting
`7
`pressure within the air chamber until the sensed
`8 manifold pressure is within the acceptable error
`9
`target range of the manifold pressure target is
`10
`the claim element. What specifically do you say
`11
`teaches that element?
`12
` A. I'm citing here to Mittal figure 5B.
`13
` Q. Is it your assertion that the
`14
`pressure being above the target pressure at step
`15
`296 meets that condition?
`16
` A. Can you ask that again? I'm sorry.
`17
` Q. Is it your assertion that when the
`18
`dynamic pressure is at or above the target
`19
`pressure at step 296, that meets the condition?
`20
` A. I'm not sure I understand your
`21
`question.
`22
` Q. So the condition is within an
`23
`acceptable pressure target error range, and is it
`24
`your position that when the dynamic pressure is
`25
`at or above the target pressure, that condition
`
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`
`1
` J. PHINNEY
`2
`is met?
`3
` A. I'm just not sure the way you're
`4
`asking the question. If it is stating what my
`5
`opinion is here, for instance, in paragraph 186.
`6
` Q. In paragraph 185 there is a sentence
`7
`that says:
`8
` "When the dynamic pressure is at or
`9
` above the target pressure at step 296,
`10
` inflation is terminated at step 298
`11
` followed by a wait time in 280."
`12
` Is it your assertion that that meets
`13
`the claim limitation?
`14
` A. I think the answer is, yes. I'm just
`15
`not sure if you're getting at a distinction
`16
`between how they express obviousness and --
`17
` Q. No. I just want to know if you
`18
`believe that meets the condition of the claim.
`19 Does it teach the claim element?
`20
` A. Yes, as I expressed in paragraph 186.
`21
` Q. So then do you see a difference
`22
`between substantially equal and within the
`23
`acceptable pressure target error range?
`24
` A. They could be different, but based on
`25
`the disclosure, I think it would be obvious to a
`Page 242
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`1
` J. PHINNEY
`2
`person of ordinary skill to terminate inflation
`3
`or deflation using numerical comparisons, such as
`4 when the sensed pressures within an acceptable
`5
`pressure target error range of pressure target.
`6
` Q. Is that a yes?
`7
` A. You're asking if they are equivalent?
`8
` Q. Do you believe them to be equivalent?
`9
` A. I'm not sure I can answer yes or no
`10
`to that. I'm just not sure if you're asking it--
`11
`you're trying to get at some distinction from the
`12 way I'm expressing it in paragraph 186 about
`13
`obviousness.
`14
` Q. Regardless of paragraph 186, do you
`15
`believe substantially equal is the same thing as
`16
`being within an acceptable error target range?
`17
` A. I think they could be.
`18
` Q. Is there a scenario under which they
`19
`aren't?
`20
` A. None occurs to me, so I think maybe
`21
`the best answer is to say that, yes, they are
`22
`equivalent.
`23
` Q. In your opinion, Dr. Phinney, at or
`24
`above the target pressure, is that closer to
`25
`being within an acceptable pressure target error
`7 (Pages 239 to 242)
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`range or is it closer to being substantially
`3
`equal?
`4
` MR. TUTTLE: Objection to form.
`5
` A. I guess I'd say closer to being
`6 within an acceptable pressure target error range.
`7
` Q. Thank you. Let's go to paragraph
`8
`208, and this is claim element 18D, and to
`9
`refresh your recollection, adjusting pressure
`10 within the air chamber until a pressure within a
`11
`pump housing is substantially equal to the
`12
`pressure target, is the claim element. What does
`13
`it say at paragraph 208?
`14
` A. It says, "See analysis of claim
`15
`element 1C above."
`16
` Q. It adds nothing further to the prior
`17
`analysis; does it?
`18
` A. No, it does not.
`19
` Q. Let's go to claim element 20G, and
`20
`20G, to refresh your memory, it says:
`21
` "Adjustment pressure in the air
`22
` chamber until a sensed pump manifold
`23
` pressure is substantially equal to the
`24
` manifold pressure target."
`25
` What does paragraph 227 say?
`
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`
` J. PHINNEY
` Q. Specifically, within figure 5B, is it
`your assertion that once the pressure measurement
`is at or above the modified pressure target that
`claim element is met?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Thank you. Let's go to claim element
`18H. It's in paragraph 212.
` For your recollection, 18H says:
` "Repeating steps B through G using
` the updated pressure adjustment factor in
` place of the pressure adjustment factor."
` Is it your assertion that Mittal
`teaches this?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Specifically, you state in paragraph
`212:
` "The system uses the target pressure
` and the static pressure to update the
` offset values to the static pressure will
` equal the desired pressure on the next
` adjustment cycle."
` Do you see that?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Where in Mittal does it say it's
`
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` J. PHINNEY
` A. It says, "See analysis of claim
`element 1C above."
` Q. It adds nothing further to that
`analysis; does it?
` A. No. It does not.
` Q. Let's go to 20K, and 20K has the
`substantially equal language in it as well. If
`you'll look at paragraph 231 for 20K, what does
`it say?
` A. It says, "See analysis of claim
`element 10C above."
` Q. Does it have anything further for
`10C?
` A. No. It does not.
` Q. Let's go back to 10C for a moment, so
`10C says:
` "Adjusting the pressure within the
` air chamber until the pressure sensed
` within the pump housing is substantially
` equal to the modified pressure target."
` What do you assert teaches that
`claim limitation?
` A. Here, I'm referring to Mittal column
`23, lines 10 to 41 as well as Mittal figure 5B.
`
`1
` J. PHINNEY
`2
`going to use that value in the next iteration?
`3
` A. The last part of that sentence that--
`4
`so the static pressure will equal the desired
`5
`pressure on the next adjustment cycle.
`6
` Q. Does it ever make that next
`7
`adjustment cycle?
`8
` A. It's referring to it, so I think the
`9
`answer is, yes.
`10
` Q. Your last sentence of that paragraph:
`11
` "A new pressure adjustment cycle
`12
` would occur at least upon receiving the
`13
` selection for desired pressure set point
`14
` for the air chamber."
`15
` Are you implying when the operator
`16
` pushes a new button?
`17
` MR. TUTTLE: Objection to form.
`18
` A. At least at that time or sometime
`19 when a desired pressure setpoint.
`20
` Q. Let's go back to figure 5B. Mittal
`21
`5B is Exhibit 10. This updated pressure
`22
`adjustment factor, is it your assertion that
`23
`that's happening in block 266, band B?
`24
` A. No.
`25
` Q. Where does this occur in figure 5B?
`8 (Pages 243 to 246)
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`2 You cite to figure 5B in your discussion here.
`3
` A. Okay. Maybe I'm at the wrong place.
`4
`I'm looking at paragraph 212.
`5
` Q. I'm sorry. Don't, okay. Where does
`6
`this occur? Does it occur in figure 5B?
`7
` A. Yes.
`8
` Q. Where does it occur in 5B?
`9
` A. For instance, starting at element
`10
`232, after receiving a selection for a desired
`11
`pressure setpoint for the air chamber.
`12
` Q. 232, so this is the updated -- so is
`13
`it your opinion that merely receiving a pressure
`14
`from the front panel updates a previous pressure
`15
`that was there?
`16
` A. No.
`17
` Q. So this updated pressure in the
`18
`claim, I want to look at the language again, in
`19
`18G:
`20
` "Calculating an updated pressure
`21
` adjustment factor based on the adjustment
`22
` factor error."
`23
` Where is that done in figure 5B?
`24
` A. If you could ask that again, I'm
`25
`sorry.
`
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`
` J. PHINNEY
`212: Is band B part of the updated pressure
`adjustment factor, in your opinion?
` A. I'm not sure I understand your
`question.
` Q. In block 266 of figure 5B, it says,
`"Add band B to desired setpoint pressure"; does
`it not?
` A. Yes.
` Q. In block 284 and in block 286, we
`added the null pressure and computed and stored
`an offset; did we not?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Is band B added to that or is it
`added to something else in block 266?
` A. When you said that, what are you
`asking?
` Q. Compute and store offset in 286.
` A. I'm not sure I understand your
`question.
` Q. In 286, an offset is computed and
`stored; is it not?
` A. Yes.
` Q. What is band B added to in 266?
` A. To the desired setpoint pressure.
`
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` J. PHINNEY
` Q. So 18G says:
` "Calculating an updated pressure
` adjustment factor based upon the
` adjustment factor error."
` And where does that happen in 5B?
` A. For instance, blocks 282, 284, 286.
` Q. 282, 4 and 6.
` A. And maybe the best answer isn't 286.
` Q. Then if we follow from 286, it goes
`to 288, "shut off," right, and then back to 266:
`"Add band B to desired setpoint pressure."
`