CONFIDENTIAL
`PURSUANT TO PROTECTIVE ORDER
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`Page 1
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` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
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` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
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` --------------------------x
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` COMCAST CABLE
`
` ) Case IPR2019-00237
`
` COMMUNICATIONS, LLC,
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` ) Case IPR2019-00239
`
` Petitioner,
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` ) Patent 7,779,011
`
` v. )
`
` )
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` ) Case IPR2019-00290
`
` VEVEO, INC.,
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` ) Case IPR2019-00292
`
` Patent Owner.
`
` ) Patent 7,937,394
`
` --------------------------x
`
` CONFIDENTIAL -- PURSUANT TO PROTECTIVE ORDER
`
` Videotaped Deposition of SAMUEL H. RUSS, PH.D.
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` Washington, D.C.
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` Thursday, January 9, 2020 - 9:05 a.m.
`
`Reported by:
`
`Lori J. Goodin, RPR, CLR, CRR, RSA
`
`California CSR #13959
`
`Job No.: 26658
`
`TransPefect Legal Solutions
`212-400-8845 - Depo@TransPerfect.com
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`Comcast, Ex. 1232
`Comcast v. Rovi
`IPR2019-00292
`
`

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`CONFIDENTIAL
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`Page 2
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` The deposition of SAMUEL H. RUSS, PH.D.,
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` was convened on Thursday, January 9, 2020,
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` commencing at 9:05 a.m., at the offices of
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` STERNE KESSLER
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` 1100 New York Avenue, Northwest
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` # 600
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` Washington, D.C. 20005
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` before Lori J. Goodin, Registered Professional
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` Reporter, Certified LiveNote Reporter, Certified
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` Realtime Reporter, Realtime Systems Administrator,
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` California CSR #13959, and Notary Public in and
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` for the District of Columbia.
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` APPEARANCES
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` On Behalf of the Petitioner:
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` JOHN R. HUTCHINS, ESQUIRE
`
` BENNETT INGVOLDSTAD, ESQUIRE
`
` CHUNHSI ANDY MU, ESQUIRE
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` BANNER WITCOFF
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` 1100 13th Street, Northwest, Suite 1200
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` Washington, D.C. 20005
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`202-824-3000
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` jhutchins@bannerwitcoff.com
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` bingvoldstad@bannerwitcoff.com
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` amu@bannerwitcoff.com
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` On Behalf of the Patent Holder:
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` TYLER J. DUTTON, ESQUIRE
`
` DANIEL S. BLOCK, ESQUIRE
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` STERNE KESSLER GOLDSTEIN & FOX, PLLC
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` 1100 New York Avenue, Northwest, #600
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` Washington, D.C. 20005
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`202-772-8982
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` tdutton@sternekessler.com
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` dblock@sternekessler.com
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` ALSO PRESENT:
`
` Nancy Holmstock, CLVS
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`

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`CONFIDENTIAL
`PURSUANT TO PROTECTIVE ORDER
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`Page 4
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` CONTENTS
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` EXAMINATION BY PAGE
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` Mr. Hutchins 7
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` EXHIBITS
`
` RUSS
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` EXHIBIT DESCRIPTION PAGE
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` Exhibit 1 Dr. Russ's report in
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` IPR2019-00237 9
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` Exhibit 2 Dr. Russ's report in
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` IPR2019-00239 10
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` Exhibit 3 Dr. Russ's report in
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` IPR2019-00290 10
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` Exhibit 4 Dr. Russ's report in
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` IPR2019-00292 11
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` PREVIOUSLY MARKED EXHIBITS
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` PRIOR MARKED EXHIBITS FIRST REFERRAL
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` 1005 20
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` 2015 27
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` 1007 69
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` 1008 82
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` 2021 120
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` 2221 130
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` 2226 131
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`CONFIDENTIAL
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` EXHIBITS (C0NTINUED)
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`Page 5
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` PREVIOUSLY MARKED EXHIBITS
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` PRIOR MARKED EXHIBITS
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` FIRST REFERRAL
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` (Original exhibits attached to the
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` original transcript.)
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`CONFIDENTIAL
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` PROCEEDINGS
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`*
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`* *
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`Page 6
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` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We are on the
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` record. This is Video Number 1 in the
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` videotaped deposition of Dr. Samuel H. Russ,
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` in the matter of Comcast Cable
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` Communications, LLC, petitioner, versus
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` Veveo, Inc., patent owner, in the United
`
` States Patent and Trademark Office, before
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` the Patent and Trial and Appeal Board, Case
`
` Number IPR 2019-237.
`
` This deposition is being held at the
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` office of Sterne Kessler, located at 1100 New
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` York Avenue, Northwest, Washington, D.C., on
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` January 9th, 2020. The time is now 9:05 a.m.
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` My name is Nancy Holmstock, from the
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` firm Transperfect Legal Services. I am the
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` video specialist. The court reporter today
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` is Lori Goodin, also in association with
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` Transperfect Legal Services.
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` Will counsel please introduce
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` themselves for the record.
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` MR. HUTCHINS: John Hutchins from
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` Banner & Witcoff representing the petitioner.
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` With me is Andy Mu and Ben Ingvoldstad.
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` MR. DUTTON: And my name is Tyler
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` Dutton from Sterne Kessler Goldstein & Fox on
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` behalf of patent owner. And with me is
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` Daniel Block, also from Sterne Kessler.
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` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Will the court
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` reporter please swear in the witness.
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` * * *
`
` Whereupon,
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` SAMUEL H. RUSS, PH.D.,
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` a witness called for examination, having been
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` first duly sworn, was examined and testified as
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` follows:
`
` * * *
`
` EXAMINATION
`
` BY MR. HUTCHINS:
`
` Q. Good morning, Dr. Russ.
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` A. Good morning.
`
` Q. Am I correct, you have been deposed
`
` before?
`
` A. Yes, I have.
`
` Q. Okay. So, I'm going to be asking
`
` you some questions here today.
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` If for whatever reason you don't
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` understand one of the questions I ask, just let
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` me know --
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` A. Okay.
`
` Q. -- and I will try to clarify it, if
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` I can.
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` The court reporter is transcribing
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` everything we say. So, please try to make your
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` responses verbal.
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. And, we will all try to refrain from
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` talking over each other or interrupting, so only
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` one person is talking at a time, which will make
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` it easier for the court reporter.
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` Is that okay?
`
` A. Absolutely.
`
` Q. If at any time you want to take a
`
` break, just let me know. And we will do so.
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` I may ask if there is a question
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` pending that that be answered. But, other than
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` that, I am more than happy to accommodate a
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` break, even if it seems like it has been a short
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` time, I don't -- I want everybody to be
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` comfortable in the room --
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` A. Sure.
`
` Q. -- so, if it happens, it happens.
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` And just let me know and I will accommodate that.
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` A. Certainly.
`
` Q. Now, in front of you I have had
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` marked as the first four exhibits four reports
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` that you submitted in some IPRs.
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` And, I just, as an initial matter,
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` wanted to go through them, not go through the
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` report, but identify the report.
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` A. Sure.
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` (Russ Exhibit Number 1
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` marked for identification.)
`
` BY MR. HUTCHINS:
`
` Q. And so, the report that I have had
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` marked as Exhibit 1 at the top is a report in
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` IPR2019-00237.
`
` Do you see that?
`
` A. I do, correct.
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` Q. And, that report relates to patent
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` number 7,779,011. Do you see that?
`
` A. I do.
`
` Q. Is it all right if over the course
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` of the day we refer to that as the '011 patent?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. And, does this --
`
` Recognizing you of course have not
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` read the copy that I have placed in front of you,
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` but does this at least appear recognizable to you
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` as the report that you submitted on the '011
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` patent in the 237 IPR?
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` A. Yes. And I note it does include the
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` appendices, for example. So, yes, it does appear
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` to be a complete copy.
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` Q. Thank you.
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` (Russ Exhibit Number 2
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` marked for identification.)
`
` BY MR. HUTCHINS:
`
` Q. And then the second exhibit that has
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` been marked is another report relating to the
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` '011 patent. Do you see that?
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` A. I do.
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` Q. And this one, however, is in
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` IPR2019-00239.
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` Do you see that?
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` A. I do, yes.
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` Q. And, does this appear to be a second
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` report that you submitted relating to the '011
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` patent?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` (Russ Exhibit Number 3
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` marked for identification.)
`
` BY MR. HUTCHINS:
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` Q. And, then the third report, which
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` has been marked Exhibit 3 here today, is a report
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` from you relating to the U.S. patent number
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` 7,937,394. Do you see that?
`
` A. I do.
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` Q. And is it okay if here today we
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` refer to that patent as the '394 patent?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. And, this report was submitted in an
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` IPR numbered 2019-00290.
`
` Do you see that?
`
` A. I do, yes.
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` Q. And does Exhibit 3 appear to be
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` recognizable to you as the report you submitted
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` in that IPR relating to the '394 patent?
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` A. Yes, it does.
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` (Russ Exhibit Number 4
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` marked for identification.)
`
` BY MR. HUTCHINS:
`
` Q. And, finally, what has been marked
`
` as Exhibit 4 is another report submitted by you
`
` relating to the '394 patent.
`
` Do you see that?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. And, this was submitted in an IPR
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` numbered 2019-00292.
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` Do you see that?
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` A. I do, yes.
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` Q. And does this appear to be the
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` report you submitted relating to the '394 patent
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` in the 292 IPR?
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` A. Yes.
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` Q. And, is it your general
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` understanding that these four reports are the
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` subject matter, generally speaking, of your
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` deposition here today?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. Now, if you look at Exhibit 1, which
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` is the first report.
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` A. Big report.
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` Q. I know. Some of these are lengthy.
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` A. A big binder -- a big binder clip, I
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` should say, yes. No problem.
`
` Q. And, in the very beginning of your
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` report, on Paragraph 1, you note you were
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` retained by Sterne Kessler on behalf of a company
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` called Veveo, Inc. Do you see that?
`
` A. I do, yes.
`
` Q. And, do you know --
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` And a similar statement is in the
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` other reports.
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` Do you know when you were retained
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` on behalf of Veveo with respect to the matters we
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` are talking about here today?
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` MR. DUTTON: And I'm going to
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` caution the witness. You can answer the
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` question. But, I will caution the witness
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` not to divulge attorney communications.
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` THE WITNESS: Okay. Thank you.
`
` My offhand recollection is that it
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` was late summer of 2019.
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` BY MR. HUTCHINS:
`
` Q. So, maybe the August time frame?
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` A. Maybe August or September. And
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` again that is merely my offhand recollection.
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` Q. And how did it come to pass that you
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` were retained?
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` MR. DUTTON: Again, objection. I'm
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` going to caution the witness not to divulge
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` any attorney communications that you may have
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` had.
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` THE WITNESS: Okay.
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` I honestly don't specifically
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` recall, except at some point somebody
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` e-mailed me and I responded. I don't
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` remember the details.
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` BY MR. HUTCHINS:
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` Q. Were you reached out to by someone
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` from Sterne Kessler?
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` A. Yes.
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` Q. And, prior to this instance, where
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` someone from Sterne Kessler had contacted you
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` with respect to these matters, had you previously
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` undertaken work for the Sterne Kessler firm?
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` A. I don't specifically recall. I
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` don't think so, but again that is my offhand
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` recollection.
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` With all due respect, sometimes I
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` remember attorneys more so than law firms.
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` Q. But, sitting here today, as far as
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` you recollect, the matters we are talking about
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` here today are the first matters you have done
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` with the Sterne Kessler firm?
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` A. That is my offhand recollection,
`
` yes.
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` Q. And, prior to being retained on
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` behalf of Veveo with respect to these matters,
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` had you previously undertaken any work for Veveo?
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` MR. DUTTON: Objection, scope.
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` Relevance.
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` THE WITNESS: Not that I recall at
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`Page 15
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` the moment.
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` BY MR. HUTCHINS:
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` Q. And, had you ever undertaken any
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` work for Rovi?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. And what prior work had you
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` undertaken for Rovi?
`
` MR. DUTTON: Objection, scope.
`
` THE WITNESS: I am -- well, I'm not
`
` sure of the exact chronology. But I know I
`
` have been working on behalf of Rovi in an ITC
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` case. And I am working on behalf of TiVo in
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` a case involving Canadian patents.
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` Understanding that Rovi, Veveo and
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` TiVo I believe are all part of the same
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` corporate structure.
`
` BY MR. HUTCHINS:
`
` Q. And in what court or tribunal is the
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` case involving TiVo proceeding?
`
` MR. DUTTON: Objection, scope.
`
` THE WITNESS: As -- I assume some
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` sort of Canadian federal court. And I
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` apologize. I'm not as familiar with Canadian
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` law as I am U.S. law.
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` I assume it is the equivalent of
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` federal court.
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` BY MR. HUTCHINS:
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` Q. And do you know who the opposing
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` party to TiVo was in that matter?
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` A. Videotron is one opposing company.
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` I think Bell and Telus. And that is spelled
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` T-E-L-U-S. Again, that is my offhand
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` recollection.
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` Q. And does the --
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` Do the patents in that case involve
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` processing search queries?
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` MR. DUTTON: Objection, scope.
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` Relevance.
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` THE WITNESS: No.
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` BY MR. HUTCHINS:
`
` Q. And you mentioned you are working
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` for Rovi with respect to an ITC case. Is that
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` correct?
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` A. Yes.
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` Q. And do you know what patents are
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` involved in that ITC case?
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` MR. DUTTON: Objection. Scope.
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` THE WITNESS: I don't remember the
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` patent numbers. But -- excuse me, the patent
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` number, but it pertains to DVR and home
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` networking, generally speaking.
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` BY MR. HUTCHINS:
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` Q. And is that patent directed to the
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` processing of search queries?
`
` A. No.
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` Q. And do you know who the party
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` adverse to Rovi is in that ITC case?
`
` A. I believe it is Comcast.
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` Q. Other than the ITC case you just
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` discussed and the matters we are here to talk
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` about today, and the TiVo case you mentioned,
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` have you undertaken any other work for Veveo,
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` Rovi or TiVo?
`
` A. Not that I recall at the moment.
`
` Q. Do you know approximately how many
`
` hours you billed Rovi -- excuse me. Let me start
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` over.
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` Do you know approximately how many
`
` hours you have billed Veveo for reports that have
`
` been marked Exhibits 1 through 4?
`
` MR. DUTTON: Objection, form.
`
` THE WITNESS: I don't know offhand.
`
` Well into the dozens. Possibly hundreds.
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` But, I don't know.
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` Q. So, it may have been more than
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` 100 hours?
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` A. It is possible.
`
` Q. But, it may have also been less than
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` 100. You are just not sure?
`
` A. That is correct.
`
` Q. Did you do anything to prepare for
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` the deposition here today?
`
` A. I obviously read these reports
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` again. And reviewed, you know, some of the
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` materials considered. Met with counsel. Sort of
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` those, those sorts of activities.
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` Q. And, when did that occur?
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` A. Over the course of the last two or
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` three weeks.
`
` Q. And did you meet with anyone other
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` than counsel to prepare for the deposition?
`
` A. Not that I recall.
`
` Q. Did you discuss your reports with
`
` anyone other than counsel to prepare for the
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` deposition?
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` MR. DUTTON: Objection. Form. I'm
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` going to caution the witness not to divulge
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` any communications you have -- you may have
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` had with counsel.
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` THE WITNESS: Not that I --
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` BY MR. HUTCHINS:
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` Q. Just to be clear. My question was
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` did you discuss your reports with anyone other
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` than counsel to prepare for the deposition?
`
` A. Right. And, to be clear, I
`
` understand the question. And my answer is not
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` that I recall at the moment.
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` Q. And for how long did you meet with
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` counsel to prepare for the deposition?
`
` A. My offhand recollection is a few
`
` days.
`
` Q. The last few days?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. Now, if you turn to Page 4 of your
`
` report that has been marked as Exhibit 1. And it
`
` proceeds for several pages, through page, I guess
`
` it is 18.
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. There is a listing of materials
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` considered.
`
` And, my question is, are you aware
`
` of any materials that you reviewed upon which you
`
` based your opinions that are not listed in the
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` chart of materials considered in your report?
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` MR. DUTTON: Objection, form.
`
` THE WITNESS: I, since there is a
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` possibility of a typographical or clerical
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` error, the way I would explain it is I
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` consulted the materials listed here. And if
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` there is something in my report that is cited
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` that is not in this list, that is also
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` something that I considered.
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` But, as far as I know, this is the
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` list of the materials.
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` And I may have reviewed generally
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` other like industry or articles, but this is
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` what I, you know, relied upon.
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` BY MR. HUTCHINS:
`
` Q. Okay. And is there any particular
`
` article you had in mind when you gave that
`
` answer? Or no?
`
` A. The articles that I relied upon are
`
` the ones that are cited here.
`
` My point is, I may have consulted
`
` other materials, but this is what I am relying on
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` for my opinions.
`
` (Whereupon, previously marked
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` Exhibit 1005, first referral.)
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` BY MR. HUTCHINS:
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` Q. Okay. Let me hand you what has been
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` marked as Exhibit 1005.
`
` A. Okay.
`
` Q. And that is a patent 8,433,696. Do
`
` you see that?
`
` A. I do.
`
` Q. And is it all right if I call that
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` the '696 patent?
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` A. It is, yes.
`
` Q. Okay. And this is listed in the
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` materials considered on the first page of the
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` chart in your report.
`
` Do you recollect reviewing the '696
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` patent?
`
` A. Not specifically. But, I mean, I
`
` reviewed a lot of materials.
`
` Q. And the '696 patent is not one of
`
` the patents at issue in the IPRs in which you
`
` have submitted reports, correct?
`
` A. Correct.
`
` Q. Did you undertake any analysis to
`
` compare the claims of the '696 patent with the
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` claims of either the '011 or '394 patents?
`
` A. No.
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` Q. And so am I correct that you also
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` then did not undertake any analysis to determine
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` whether the claims of the '696 patent were
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` patently distinct from the claims of the '011 or
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` '394 patents?
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` A. I did not undertake any such review.
`
` Q. And did you do any work for Veveo or
`
` Rovi relating to any IPR or other proceedings
`
` relating to the '696 patent?
`
` MR. DUTTON: Objection, scope.
`
` Relevance.
`
` THE WITNESS: Not that I recall at
`
` the moment.
`
` BY MR. HUTCHINS:
`
` Q. Did you review any materials
`
` relating to the IPR or appeal of the IPR relating
`
` to the '696 patent?
`
` MR. DUTTON: Objection, scope.
`
` Relevance.
`
` THE WITNESS: I have reviewed a lot
`
` of materials going into this.
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` I don't have a specific recollection
`
` of that.
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` And I apologize, counselor. Should
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` this be marked Exhibit 5 or is this --
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` MR. HUTCHINS: It is premarked
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` Exhibit 1005 at the bottom.
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` THE WITNESS: Oh, okay. Thank you.
`
` All right.
`
` BY MR. HUTCHINS:
`
` Q. As an aside, so have exhibits 1
`
` through 4. But, the exhibit numbers are the same
`
` for the four reports. So, to avoid confusion --
`
` A. Okay, sure.
`
` Q. -- I had them marked 1, 2, 3, 4.
`
` But, generally today if there is an
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` exhibit that has already been stamped with a
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` number, I will try to use that number.
`
` A. Okay. All right. Thank you. I
`
` appreciate you bringing that to my attention.
`
` Thank you.
`
` Q. No worries at all.
`
` Now, in the chart of materials
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` considered in your reports, there is a long list
`
` of confidential Veveo documents that begin at
`
` around Exhibit 2100 which, for instance, is at
`
` the bottom of Page 5 of the report that has been
`
` marked as Exhibit 1 --
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. -- and continues through the rest of
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` the chart.
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` Did you do anything to independently
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` confirm the dates of creation of any of those
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` documents?
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` MR. DUTTON: Objection. Scope.
`
` THE WITNESS: No, I accepted the
`
` representation of my counsel.
`
` BY MR. HUTCHINS:
`
` Q. Okay. Did you undertake any actions
`
` to collect those documents, or were they provided
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` to you?
`
` A. They were provided to me.
`
` Q. Other than counsel, so excluding
`
` discussions you have had or may have had with
`
` your attorneys, did you have discussions with
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` anybody else about the internal Veveo documents
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` that are listed in your materials considered in
`
` your report?
`
` MR. DUTTON: Objection, form.
`
` THE WITNESS: Not that I recall at
`
` the moment.
`
` BY MR. HUTCHINS:
`
` Q. And, do you recall asking anybody
`
` other than counsel to help you understand the
`
` contents of any of those documents?
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` A. Not that I recall.
`
` Q. And without saying anything other
`
` than yes or no, did counsel provide you
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` information about the contents of those documents
`
` upon which you relied in issuing your opinions in
`
` this report, just yes or no?
`
` MR. DUTTON: Objection. I'm going
`
` to instruct the witness not to answer that
`
` question.
`
` Calls for attorney communications.
`
` MR. HUTCHINS: Well, the stipulation
`
` we have explicitly allows me to ask if
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` counsel has provided information upon which
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` the expert relied in giving his opinions.
`
` If he relied upon it in giving his
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` opinions, I am entitled to it.
`
` If not, not.
`
` But, for him to answer that yes or
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` no is explicitly allowed in the stipulation.
`
` But, I want to be -- I just want to
`
` be clear on what I'm asking -- I want you to
`
` be clear on what I'm asking.
`
` I'm simply asking if counsel
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` provided him information about those
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` documents upon which he relied in issuing his
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` opinion.
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` So, with that understanding of my
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` question, is your instruction still for him
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` not to answer that yes or no?
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` MR. DUTTON: You may answer the
`
` question yes or no. But, I will caution the
`
` witness not to divulge any communications you
`
` had with counsel.
`
` THE WITNESS: Okay. And I want to
`
` make sure I understand the sense of the
`
` question, counselor.
`
` Your question is did I rely upon --
`
` I'm sorry. Please repeat the question. That
`
` might be clearer for the record.
`
` BY MR. HUTCHINS:
`
` Q. Certainly. Did counsel provide you
`
` information about any of those internal Veveo
`
` documents upon which you relied in issuing your
`
` opinions in your reports?
`
` A. No. Only the documents themselves.
`
` Q. Okay. Thank you.
`
` Forgive me. There are so many
`
` exhibits, sometimes it takes a little bit of time
`
` to get the correct one.
`
` Dr. Russ, on Paragraph 19 of your
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` report that is marked as Exhibit 1, there is a
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` reference to your CV containing additional
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` details on your education experience, et cetera.
`
` Do you see that?
`
` A. I do.
`
` (Whereupon, previously marked
`
` Exhibit 2015, first referral.)
`
` BY MR. HUTCHINS:
`
` Q. And, I have -- you have also been
`
` handed what has been previously marked as
`
` Exhibit 2015, which at the top says Curriculum
`
` Vitae of Dr. Samuel H. Russ.
`
` Do you see that?
`
` A. I do.
`
` Q. And is it your understanding
`
` Exhibit 2015 is the CV that you are referencing
`
` in Paragraph 19?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. And as far as you know, is this an
`
` accurate CV for you?
`
` A. Unless there is some extra thing
`
` that has been added, like an extra publication or
`
` something, yes.
`
` Q. Okay. Looking at it, are you aware
`
` of --
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` Is there a particular publication
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` you have in mind that might be missing?
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` A. No.
`
` Q. Also in Paragraph 19 of your report,
`
` you reference that your work on this case is
`
` billed at a rate of $350 an hour.
`
` Do you see that?
`
` A. I do.
`
` Q. And is that your standard rate for
`
` consulting with respect to legal matters?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. If you go up one paragraph in your
`
` report, there is a reference to some 32 journal
`
` articles and conference papers that you have
`
` authored.
`
` Do you see that?
`
` A. I do.
`
` Q. And, do you know if any of those
`
` articles or papers are directed to the subject
`
` matter of search query processing?
`
` A. My offhand recollection is they are
`
` not.
`
` Q. And, if you look at Paragraph 15 of
`
` your report, and in particular the last sentence
`
` notes that you are a named inventor on some 51
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` patent applications, at least 28 of which have
`
` issued as patents. Do you see that?
`
` A. I do.
`
` Q. And do you know if any of those
`
` patent applications or issued patents were
`
` directed to search query processing?
`
` MR. DUTTON: Objection, form.
`
` THE WITNESS: My offhand recollection
`
` is they were not.
`
` BY MR. HUTCHINS:
`
` Q. Have you ever personally written any
`
` software to handle search query processing?
`
` A. What do you mean by search query
`
` processing?
`
` Q. So, do you have a general
`
` understanding that the '011 and '394 patents are
`
` directed to a method of handling search queries
`
` that are intended to retrieve various data?
`
` MR. DUTTON: Objection. Form.
`
` Calls for a legal conclusion.
`
`

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