Date: October 22, 2018
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`Case: Certain Digital Video Receivers and Related Hardware and
`Software Components
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`THIS DOCUMENT CONTAINS CONFIDENTIAL
`INFORMATION
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`Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc.
`Phone: 202-347-3700
`Fax: 202-737-3638
`Email: info@acefederal.com
`Internet: www.acefederal.com
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`Comcast, Exhibit-1023
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`Case: Certain Digital Video Receivers and Related Hardware and
`Software Components
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`THIS DOCUMENT CONTAINS CONFIDENTIAL
`INFORMATION
`
`Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc.
`Phone: 202-347-3700
`Fax: 202-737-3638
`Email: info@acefederal.com
`Internet: www.acefederal.com
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`Comcast, Exhibit-1023
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`THIS DOCUMENT CONTAINS CONFIDENTIAL INFORMATION
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` UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
` BEFORE THE
` INTERNATIONAL TRADE COMMISSION
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`Page 1015
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`- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -x
`IN THE MATTER OF: : Investigation Number
`CERTAIN DIGITAL VIDEO RECEIVERS: 337-TA-1103
`AND RELATED HARDWARE AND :
`SOFTWARE COMPONENTS :
`- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -x
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` HEARING
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` Monday, October 22, 2018
` Courtroom A
` U.S. International Trade
` Commission
` 500 E Street SW
` Washington, DC
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`The hearing commenced, pursuant to notice of the Judge, at
`9:38 a.m., before the Honorable MaryJoan McNamara,
`Administrative Law Judge for the United States
`International Trade Commission.
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`Page 1051
` Q What did you conclude for claim 1c as applied to
`Comcast's set-top boxes operating in the X1 system?
` A I concluded that -- concluded that 1c is
`infringed by the Comcast accused products.
` Q Can we check that off?
` A Yes.
` Q Let's go to claim 1d, which requires "control
`circuitry configured to access a database to determine
`whether an archived copy corresponding to the video is
`available to a user after the start time."
` Are there any claim construction issues we
`should consider for this claim element?
` A Yes. Can we go to the next slide, please.
` Q What claim construction issues did you consider
`and apply for claim 1d?
` A The term "archived copy."
` Q We've already discussed the presence of this in
`Comcast's system?
` A Yes.
` Q What evidence do you have that the set-top boxes
`that are accused and have been made representative by
`Comcast as operated in the X1 system access a database as
`described in claim 1d?
` A Can we go to the next slide, please?
` Q What are you showing here in connection with
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`Page 1052
`CX-1052C.2?
`1
` A This is a screenshot of a video of the XG1
`set-top box taken by Mr. Williams. It's showing the grid
`guide, and it's showing that for a particular listing that
`the user has highlighted, in this case Southern Charm, the
`system has accessed the database to determine whether or
`not an archived copy is available. And I know that because
`it's showing that I can restart that program and that
`restart is the little arrow icon with the circle around it
`next to the listing, and also on the right-hand side which
`I've highlighted that has the word next to it as well.
` Q To be clear, are there restart indications that
`you are pointing to both in the listing in the grid guide
`and then below on what I'll refer to as the information
`panel?
` A Yes, in this case it's appearing in two
`locations.
` Q You've also listed CX-1064C.2 and CX-1069C.2.
`What do those exhibits show us?
` A These are similar screenshots of the same
`functionality running on the other Comcast representative
`accused products.
` Q Do they work, in your observation, any
`different?
` A No.
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`Page 1053
` Q You've also listed on this slide some videos,
`CX-1132C, 1137C, 1149C and 1155C. Why have you listed
`those?
` A These are simply additional videos showing the
`same functionality.
` I just want to make a correction. I think when
`I first talked about this slide, I said the slide itself
`was a screenshot of a video. It's actually simply a
`screenshot of a screen, not of a video.
` Q Fair enough. Thank you, Dr. Balakrishnan.
` Does Comcast make available to the user after
`the start time every program for restart?
` A No.
` Q Do you have any examples of instances where
`restart is not available?
` A Yes, I have some screenshots for that too, if we
`can go to the next slide, please.
` Q What are you showing here in CX-1052C.1?
` A Here I'm showing the user has moved to another
`listing, in this case Keeping Up With the Kardashians
`that's highlighted. And here the system has accessed the
`database and determined that there is no archived copy
`available, and as a result, doesn't show that restart icon
`in either place.
` Q You've listed here CX-1064C.1 and CX-1069C.1.
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`Page 1054
`Why have you listed those?
`1
` A Those are additional screenshots showing the
`same functionality running on the other Comcast accused
`products.
` Q What is the significance in your analysis of
`claim 1d of restart being available in the preceding
`CX-1052 screenshot and not being available in CX-1052C.1?
` A To me that indicates very clearly that in each
`time the user selects a listing or highlights a listing, an
`access to a database is happening to make that
`determination as to whether an archived copy is available
`or not that corresponds to that video. And it's only when
`it is available is that restart icon shown. If it's not
`available, it's simply not shown.
` So it's clear evidence to me that the database
`access is happening.
` Q Do you have any other evidence that the access
`to a database as described in claim 1d is occurring in
`Comcast's system?
` A Yes. Can we go to the next slide, please.
` Q What are you showing here?
` A This is a different view, this is the program
`actually -- again, this is a screenshot of the X1 guide
`running on the XG1 system taken by Mr. Williams.
` In the background is the live broadcast show of
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`Page 1055
`Southern Charm-Pulp Friction. And the overlay information
`overlay shows that there are -- there is an archived copy
`available to the system. When the user pressed the info
`button to get this overlay, a database was accessed to
`determine whether an archived copy was available.
` In this case it is available, so it indicates in
`two places, one with the restart button on the top right of
`the info panel, and the second one with a restart menu
`option in the menu bar at the bottom of the info panel.
` Q For the record, this is CX-1052C at 4.
` I forgot to ask you, if we can go back to the
`previous slide, CX-1052C.1, what triggers the access to a
`database that is described in claim 1d in the Comcast
`system?
` A In the Comcast system, the access to the
`database is simply triggered when the user goes to the next
`selection, for example.
` Q Moving from "Southern Charm" to "Keeping Up With
`the Kardashians?"
` A That was one trigger, yes.
` Q If we go forward to the slide you were just
`talking about at CX-1052C at 4, tell us again what triggers
`the access to the database in this example.
` A In this example, when the user pressed the info
`button on the remote that brought up this information
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`Page 1056
`panel, before the information panel is drawn, that triggers
`1
`the access to the database to ensure it draws this panel
`directly with the right -- right information.
` Q In the example in CX-1052C.4, has a
`determination been made whether an archived copy
`corresponding to the video is available to the user after
`the start time?
` A Yes.
` Q Why?
` A Because the start time here is 5:00. We know
`from the information panel that it's currently 5:31 p.m.,
`so roughly halfway through the program. And when the
`information panel was triggered, access to the database
`happened at that time, which is well after the 5:00 p.m.
`start time.
` Q Do you have any other evidence that you've found
`showing claim 1d met?
` A Yes. Can we go to the next slide, please.
` Q What is being shown here from CX-815C at page
`71?
` A This is a page or portion of a page from the
`X1 -- Comcast X1 syndication sales playbook. And here it
`describes how the restart icon and the grid guide is
`displayed when a video on demand or instant video on demand
`asset is available.
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`Page 1057
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` That word "when" indicates to me that it is
`accessing a database to determine that an archived copy is
`available. Otherwise it would not do that display.
` Q You've listed CX-815C at 72 through 73 in
`addition to what you've just discussed. Why have you done
`that?
` A Those just provide additional pages that provide
`similar information for me.
` Q I noticed there's reference in the top after the
`"when," a VOD or instant VOD asset.
` Do you see that?
` A Yes.
` Q In your analysis of the Comcast set-top boxes
`operating in the X1 system, looking at Mr. Williams's
`screenshots, looking at the documents, did you notice any
`difference in the way the restart functionality worked
`based upon what program was going to be restarted?
` A No. As long as an archived copy existed, the
`restart functionality, whether it was VOD or instant VOD,
`was the same.
` Q Do you have any other evidence that the
`determination as claimed in claim 1d is met?
` A Yes. Can we go to the next slide, please.
` Q This appears to be another page from CX-815C at
`page 73. What's being shown here?
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` A This just is additional information talking
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`about the availability of iVOD recordings and how it can be
`configured to high content of users not in the appropriate
`regions.
` In other words, you may have archived copies,
`but it may not be available to a user. So the access to
`the database would determine is this actually available to
`the user after the start time. And other factors such as,
`you know, geographic restrictions or other entitlements can
`play into -- come into play.
` Q I'd like to show you the diagram that we've
`referred to previously based on CX-607C.4, which is at this
`slide at CDX-6C.340. And I want to ask you, where is the
`control circuitry and what is the control circuitry that's
`configured to perform claim 1d?
` A It's in the X1 system. The actual access to the
`database would be in the -- in the cloud. But the trigger
`would happen from the set-top boxes that caused the user to
`request that access to happen.
` Q Without the set-top boxes and the software and
`RDK that's running on it, would there be any access to a
`database?
` A There would be no need to access it because
`there would be no request.
` Q What did you conclude with regards to claim 1d?
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`Page 1059
` A I concluded that claim 1d is infringed by the
`accused Comcast products.
` Q So let's get off to the next claim element,
`which is claim 1e, which I'll read for the record. It's a
`mouthful. It's "control circuitry configured to based on
`determining that the archived copy is available to the user
`after the start time, cause an indication corresponding to
`the archived copy to be displayed simultaneously with the
`video after a specified time after the start time but
`before the end time, wherein the specified time was
`configured prior to the start time."
` Did I read that correctly?
` A I believe you did.
` Q Okay. Did you consider any claim constructions
`for claim element 1e?
` A Yes. Can you go to the next slide, please.
` Q What claim constructions did you apply in your
`analysis?
` A The three terms relevant here, one is "archived
`copy." The other is "specified time after the start time
`but before the end time." And the last one is "configured
`prior to the start time."
` Q Am I correct that there has to be control
`circuitry that's configured to perform all the things that
`we're going to talk about for claim 1e?
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`Page 1060
` A Yes.
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` Q Did you find control circuitry in Comcast's
`system that did all of this stuff?
` A Yes.
` Q Okay. Let's talk about it in a little more
`particularity.
` A Sure.
` Q What evidence did you find?
` A Can we go to the next slide, please.
` Q Before we talk about CX-152C at 4, I will
`notice -- or I notice that at claim 1e, you've highlighted
`in black the top portion but grayed out the bottom portion.
`Why have you done that?
` A This is just so that we can focus our attention
`on the relevant parts of the claim as we step through it.
`So we're going to start with the first portion that I've
`highlighted in black.
` Q So what is the trigger that comes before the
`cause of an indication?
` A That's the determination. So based on
`determining there are archived copies available to the user
`after the start time, that's the trigger.
` Q That's what we talked about based in the last
`claim element?
` A That's right.
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`Page 1061
` Q What -- is it a user or is it a computer that
`does this determination step?
` A That determination is done by the computer,
`because it accesses a database to determine if that
`archived copy is available to the user.
` Q Now, the first thing that's listed here after
`the trigger is "causing an indication." Is that found in
`CX-1052C at 4?
` A Yes.
` Q Where?
` A As you can see here on the screen, this is the
`same screen we've talked about I think before, there are
`two spots. One is the restart menu item on the menu bar at
`the bottom, and the second part is on the top right, there
`is an arrow with a circle around it with the "restart"
`word.
` That arrow with a circle around it corresponds
`to a similar icon on the remote control that the user can
`access to activate that function as well.
` Q Is the arrow within the circle, does that
`correspond to something on the user's remote?
` A Yes, as I just said, it corresponds to a key on
`the remote that has a similar arrow on it.
` Q What do we call that, in just ordinary language?
` A We can call it the playback key.
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` Q Can we go forward to the next part of claim 1e?
`1
` A Sure.
` Q Before we do that, just so the record is clear,
`you've listed CX-1064C.4 and CX-1069C.5 here as well. Why
`have you done that?
` A Those simply are additional screenshots showing
`the same functionality running on the other representative
`Comcast accused products.
` Q Did you observe any differences between them?
` A No.
` Q So let's move forward to the next part, which is
`"causing an indication corresponding to the archived copy."
` Is that present?
` A Yes. As I've just shown you, the two
`indications on the screen are the indications that
`correspond to that archived copy.
` Q How do they correspond to the archived copy?
` A They correspond in that if you hit restart -- if
`you activate one of these options, either by selecting the
`restart menu option on the bottom of the menu bar or
`hitting that key on the remote control that corresponds to
`that restart icon on the top right, that -- that would
`result in playback of this archived copy.
` And also as I discussed previously, these two
`icons -- or these two indications do not show up if there
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`Page 1063
`is no archived copy. So we know it certainly corresponds
`to the archived copy.
` Q The next part of the claim that I will light up
`is "control circuitry configured to cause an indication
`corresponding to the archived copy to be displayed
`simultaneously with the video."
` Is that met?
` A Yes.
` Q How?
` A As we can see here, the video is actually
`playing in the background, it's the transmitted Southern
`Charm video is in the background. And this overlay screen
`is overlaying that. So it's certainly a simultaneous
`display with the video.
` Q The next portion that I will light up is the
`remainder of the claim, which requires the control
`circuitry that causes an indication corresponding to the
`archived copy to be displayed with the video must occur
`after a specified time after the start time but before the
`end time.
` Let's stop there for now. Do you understand
`where we are?
` A Yes.
` Q If we could bring up, please, from Comcast
`counsel's opening slide 47.
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`Page 1064
` You were here for the opening; right?
`1
` A Yes, I was.
` Q You saw this portion of your deposition put up
`on the screen; right?
` A Yes.
` Q Do you stand by that testimony?
` A Absolutely.
` Q Are we going to be able to see a gap between the
`info button being pushed and the restart indication being
`displayed on the screen?
` A Yes.
` Q Is it a small gap?
` A It's a very small gap, you've got to watch
`carefully. But it's certainly there.
` Q Does the claim require the gap to be of a
`specific size?
` A No.
` Q So let's go back to the slide. You have shown
`here at least a still of CX-1137C at 46 seconds through 57
`seconds. Can you tell us what we're going to see in this
`video?
` A What we're going to see here is when the user --
`when the video runs, the user is going to select this Lord
`of the Rings-Fellowship of the Rings show. The video will
`show that video -- that show playing in the background.
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`The user will then hit the info button, and when the user
`hits the info button, after a specific duration of time
`that is after the start time, because the show is already
`playing, so it's clearly after the start time, and before
`the end time because the show hasn't ended, an overlay
`screen will show up with some information, it's called the
`information overlay. And that will have the restart
`indications on it that correspond to the archived copy
`being available in this particular instance.
` Q And so I want to be specific before we play the
`video. The gap that Mr. Lumish referred to in opening,
`that we just saw on the screen that you testified about, is
`that the specific duration of time that you're relying
`upon?
` A That's right. It's the time taken for the
`Comcast system to process the elements required to put up
`the information screen, the text, the determination of the
`access of the database, whether to put up the indication
`icons or not and so forth, all of that takes a specific
`duration of time.
` And it's very, very fast. So if you blink, you
`miss it. But it's certainly there.
` Q Why has Comcast designed its system to be that
`quick?
` A Because they want it to be responsive to the
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`user. They want the user to perceive that it's -- that you
`1
`hit the button, it shows up right away. But it still takes
`a specific duration of time for those steps to be performed
`in the computer and to be displayed.
` Q Can we play the video now from CX-1137C from 46
`seconds to 57 seconds?
` A Sure, please do.
` (Video played.)
` A So the user has selected the video, it's
`playing. The user is going to press the info button on the
`remote, and the overlay shows up. And there is a delay
`between pressing the info button and the overlay. It's a
`very, very small time, but it takes -- takes a certain
`amount of time and specific duration of time to paint
`that -- to paint that overlay screen with the indicators.
` Q I want to get to delay in a second, but before
`we do that, I want to focus on what's shown on the screen
`right now. Who provides in the Comcast system the various
`components of the screen, for example, cast and crew, Lord
`of the Rings and the restart indications that we've already
`discussed?
` A All Comcast.
` Q What system in particular provides those things?
` A The Comcast X1 system.
` Q What components of Comcast's system are involved
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`in providing these things that are shown on CX-1137 at 57?
` A The server provides some of the content,
`including checking the database and so forth. And the
`actual rendering happens on the set-top boxes.
` Q Now, if we could bring up slide 49 from
`Mr. Lumish's opening. Do you remember him putting this up
`on the screen?
` A Yes.
` Q And you understand on the left-hand side there's
`a data center, which I think we can assume is Comcast. Is
`that fair?
` A I think that's a reasonable assumption.
` Q In your analysis, would there be on the
`right-hand side of the screen a user in a home interacting
`with a set-top box?
` A Yes.
` Q And in the middle Mr. Lumish talked about all
`these computers that are on the Internet or some sort of
`network; right?
` A Yes.
` Q So my first question for you is the heading of
`this slide is "latency."
` Do you see that?
` A Yes.
` Q Does your analysis with regards to the specific
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`duration of time that's required in claim 1e, do you rely
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`upon latency?
` A No.
` Q What do you rely on?
` A I rely upon the specific duration of time
`required by Comcast systems to generate and display that
`information screen on the user's set-top box and television
`screen.
` Q The control circuitry, Dr. Balakrishnan, that
`you analyzed, does that include what's on the set-top box
`on the right-hand side of the screen?
` A Yes.
` Q Does it include what's in Comcast data centers
`at the
`
`?
` A Yes.
` Q Did you include in your analysis of the control
`circuitry that's accused of infringement all that stuff in
`the middle?
` A No.
` Q You can take that down. Let's go back to the
`slide.
` You've listed on this slide also CX-1132C at
`1:17 through 1:28, and CX-1155C at 1:03 through 1:07. What
`do those exhibits show?
` A Showing similar functionality running on the
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`
`other representative accused products.
` Q Now, there's been some debate in previous
`testimony about remotes and whose remotes they are.
` Were you intending to call out this particular
`remote as someone's?
` A No. This is just an infographic that I have
`used to illustrate the pressing of a remote. It's -- this
`could be whatever remote. Of course, to run the XG1
`system, it would be an XG1 remote for that box.
` Q XG1 remotes or XG2 or other remotes have info
`buttons?
` A Yes.
` Q The last element I want to ask you about before
`we move on to another example is the "wherein the specified
`time was configured prior to the start time."
` Is the specified time that you've pointed to,
`the specific duration, was that configured or set as the
`ALJ has construed it prior to the start time?
` A Yes.
` Q Why?
` A Because the time is the time required to execute
`the steps to paint this information screen, and this is
`configured when the system was built, which is well before
`the start time of any of these videos.
` Q Do you have another example that we can look at
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`Page 1070
`that shows claim 1e being satisfied with Comcast restart
`1
`functionality?
` A Yes. Can we go to the next slide, please.
` Q What are you showing here?
` A Here I'm going to show a slightly different way
`of doing it, is through the grid guide. The user is going
`to go to a -- select a listing in the grid guide that has
`the restart indication in it.
` Q This is CX-1052C.2. Where particularly is the
`indication that's shown here?
` A Sure. This is when the user selected the
`Southern Charm listing, the indication is shown in two
`spots, one right next to the listing name, as we have
`highlighted here, that's the little arrow with the circle
`on it. And on the bottom in the information panel, there
`is that restart icon as well.
` Q Can we move on to the next element of this
`particular claim limitation.
` A Yes.
` Q Do both of the restart indications you just
`identified in CX-1052C.2 correspond to an archived copy?
` A Yes.
` Q How so?
` A This is because the user -- the system has
`checked that an archived copy is available, and based on
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`Page 1071
`that determination, it is displaying these icons. If the
`determination came back saying there is no archived copy,
`then that icon would not be displayed.
` Q The next part of claim 1e is the display of the
`indication simultaneously with video. Does that occur in
`this example?
` A It does. This grid guide actually overlays the
`video. It's hard to see in this screenshot, but the video
`is playing in the background. And the Comcast system does
`allow you to change the opacity or the level of opacity of
`the grid guide, so you can change, you know, how much of
`that video you want to see in the background or how little
`you want to see in the background.
` Q Do you have an example that we can quickly look
`at to see a grid guide with the video playing on the
`background?
` A Yes.
` Q Mr. Moreno, if you could bring up CX-1155C and
`just start playing that.
` A So just before you play it, you can see in the
`background there's the silhouette of the video. When we
`play it, I think you can see it moving.
` (Video played.)
` So the user is going to go from "Captain Blood"
`to selecting the "Lord of the Rings." You can see the
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`Page 1072
`video at the back.
`1
` Q You can take that down.
` On this slide, you have also listed CX-1064C.2
`and CX-1069C.2. Why have you listed those?
` A Those are screenshots showing similar
`functionality, the same functionality, running on the other
`accused X1 products.
` Q And again you have listed the videos that you
`have previously described at CX-1132C, 37C, 1149C and
`1155C. What do those show?
` A Those show the same functionality, but in video
`format on the various accused products.
` Q Do you observe any differences between them with
`regards to this functionality?
` A No.
` Q Let's go to the next part of this claim, which
`is control circuitry causing an indication corresponding to
`the archived copy to be displayed simultaneously with the
`video after a specified time after the start time but
`before the end time.
` Did you find this present in this example as
`well?
` A Yes.
` Q What will this video show us at CX-1137C at 15
`seconds through 20 seconds?
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`Page 1073
` A This video is going to show the user navigating
`from "Captain Blood" to the next show, "The Lord of the
`Rings." And the "The Lord of the Rings" -- "Captain Blood"
`right now, by the way, does not have an archived copy
`associated with it, so there's no indication for it.
` But the next one, "Lord of the Rings," the
`system will determine that there is an archived copy
`available and will cause an indication to -- corresponding
`to that archived copy to show up and will be displayed
`simultaneously with the video.
` That indication will show up after a specified
`time after the start time but before the end time. So
`there will be a specific duration of time they will take to
`display that indication on the screen.
` Q Can we play the video?
` A Sure.
` (Video played.)
` Q Describe for us what's happening.
` A So the user just pressed the down button key to
`go to that, and you can see it took a specific duration of
`time for that indication, which is the little restart icon,
`to show up in two places on the -- next to the listing
`itself and in the information panel at the bottom.
` Q Whose control circuitry for "The Lord of the
`Rings" listing that's highlighted at the very top is
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`responsible for the display of the restart indication?
`1
` A The control circuitry of the X1 system on both
`the box and on -- on the set-top box and in the server
`side.
` Q Whose con
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