Deposition of:
`Vijay Madisetti , Ph.D.
`
`June 12, 2019
`
`In the Matter of:
`Canon U.S.A., Inc. Vs. Cellspin Soft,
`Inc.
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`800.808.4958 | calendar-atl@veritext.com | 770.343.9696
`
`Canon Exhibit 1042, Page 1
`
`
`Vijay Madisetti , Ph.D.
`
`June 12, 2019
`
`In the Matter of:
`Canon U.S.A., Inc. Vs. Cellspin Soft,
`Inc.
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`800.808.4958 | calendar-atl@veritext.com | 770.343.9696
`
`Canon Exhibit 1042, Page 1
`
`
`
`Vijay Madisetti , Ph.D.
`Canon U.S.A., Inc. Vs. Cellspin Soft, Inc.
`
`June 12, 2019
`
`Page 1
`
` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`
` _______________________
`
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
` _______________________
`
` CANON U.S.A., INC.
`
` Petitioner,
`
` v.
`
` CELLSPIN SOFT, INC.
`
` Patent Owner
`
` Case No. IPR 2019-00127
`
` Patent No. 9,258,698
`
` _______________________
`
` DEPOSITION OF VIJAY MADISETTI, Ph.D.
`
` June 12, 2019
`
` 8:58 a.m.
`
` Veritext Legal Solutions
`
` 1075 Peachtree Street, N.E.
`
` Suite 3625
`
` Atlanta, Georgia
`
`REPORTED BY:
`
`LAURA R. SINGLE, CCR-B-1343
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`800.808.4958
`
`770.343.9696
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`
`Canon Exhibit 1042, Page 2
`
`
`
`Vijay Madisetti , Ph.D.
`Canon U.S.A., Inc. Vs. Cellspin Soft, Inc.
`
`June 12, 2019
`
`Page 2
`
` A P P E A R A N C E S
`
`For the Petitioner:
` JARED W. NEWTON, Esq.
` Quinn Emanuel Urquhart & Sullivan, LLP
` 1300 I Street, N.W.
` Suite 900
` Washington, D.C. 20005
` (202) 538-8000
` jarednewton@quinnemanuel.com
`
`For the Patent Owner:
` JOHN J. EDMONDS, Esq.
` Edmonds & Schlather
` 1616 South Voss Road
` Suite 125
` Houston, Texas 77057
` (713) 364-5291
` jedmonds@ip-lit.com
`
`Also Present:
` Gruvinder Singh
` (Cellspin Soft, Inc.)
`
`1
`
`2 3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8 9
`
`10
`11
`12
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`800.808.4958
`
`770.343.9696
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`
`Canon Exhibit 1042, Page 3
`
`
`
`Vijay Madisetti , Ph.D.
`Canon U.S.A., Inc. Vs. Cellspin Soft, Inc.
`
`June 12, 2019
`
`Page 3
`
` I N D E X
`
`EXAMINATION OF VIJAY MADISETTI, Ph.D. PAGE
`BY MR. EDMONDS................................. 4
`BY MR. NEWTON.................................. 48
`
` * * *
`
`NUMBER DESCRIPTION PAGE
`For the Patent Owner:
`Exhibit 1 Specification of the 12
` Bluetooth System - Master
` Table of Contents &
` Compliance Requirements
`
`Exhibit 2 Japanese Unexamined Patent 13
` Application Publication,
` 2/28/03
`Exhibit 3 An Overview of the Bluetooth 34
` Wireless Technology
`
`Exhibit 4 United States Patent 35
` Application Publication,
` 10/3/02
`Exhibit 5 United States Patent 36
` Application Publication,
` 8/24/06
`Exhibit 6 Japanese Unexamined Patent 38
` Application Publication,
` 10/27/05
`
`1
`
`2 3
`
`4
`5
`
`6 7 8
`
`9
`10
`11
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`15
`
`16
`17
`
`18
`19
`
`20
`21
`
`22
`23
`
`24
`25
`
`800.808.4958
`
`770.343.9696
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`
`Canon Exhibit 1042, Page 4
`
`
`
`Vijay Madisetti , Ph.D.
`Canon U.S.A., Inc. Vs. Cellspin Soft, Inc.
`
`June 12, 2019
`
`Page 4
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` P R O C E E D I N G S
`
` (Pursuant to Article 10(B) of the Rules and
`
` Regulations of the Georgia Board of Court
`
` Reporting, a written disclosure statement was
`
` submitted by the court reporter to all counsel
`
` present at the proceeding.)
`
` * * *
`
` VIJAY MADISETTI, Ph.D.,
`
`Having been first duly sworn to state the truth, was
`
`examined and testified as follows:
`
` EXAMINATION
`
`BY MR. EDMONDS:
`
` Q. Would you please state your name?
`
` A. Vijay Madisetti.
`
` Q. And do you realize that you're here under
`
`oath for a deposition?
`
` A. I do.
`
` Q. Is there anything about your health or
`
`wellbeing that would inhibit in any way your ability
`
`to give full and truthful answers to this deposition?
`
` A. No.
`
` Q. How many kinds of Bluetooth connections are
`
`possible?
`
` A. I didn't understand the question.
`
` Q. What different kinds of Bluetooth
`
`800.808.4958
`
`770.343.9696
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`
`Canon Exhibit 1042, Page 5
`
`
`
`Vijay Madisetti , Ph.D.
`Canon U.S.A., Inc. Vs. Cellspin Soft, Inc.
`
`June 12, 2019
`
`Page 5
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`connections are there?
`
` A. Bluetooth is a standard, and the first
`
`version of the standard, which was 1.2, was issued
`
`sometime in 2003. Then there is a version 2.2 in
`
`2004 and another version 2.1 plus EDR in the 2006
`
`July time frame. Based on -- at the time of this
`
`invention, I think that there were -- these standards
`
`were widely known.
`
` MR. EDMONDS: Objection; nonresponsive.
`
`BY MR. EDMONDS:
`
` Q. We are talking past each other.
`
` In Bluetooth can you have a piconet?
`
` A. Are you referring to a portion of my
`
`declaration?
`
` Q. Are you claiming to have expertise in
`
`Bluetooth?
`
` A. Yes. I am familiar with Bluetooth, and I
`
`have used it and testified about it.
`
` Q. Can you have a piconet in Bluetooth?
`
` A. Again, it's a very general question. As for
`
`the standards, I think you can create some sort of
`
`network, an ad hoc network.
`
` Q. A variety of ad hoc networks, correct?
`
` A. The standard describes the type of networks,
`
`so I would rely upon the standard.
`
`800.808.4958
`
`770.343.9696
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`
`Canon Exhibit 1042, Page 6
`
`
`
`Vijay Madisetti , Ph.D.
`Canon U.S.A., Inc. Vs. Cellspin Soft, Inc.
`
`June 12, 2019
`
`Page 6
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` Q. I'm asking you as someone who professes
`
`expertise in Bluetooth what types of networks are
`
`there that you just referred to?
`
` A. Generally, they're called ad hoc networks,
`
`and I would defer to the standard to describe the
`
`specific type of networks.
`
` Q. Do you know the specific types of networks?
`
` A. As I said, I'm generally familiar with the
`
`standard; but given the importance of this matter, I
`
`would defer to the standard to disclose exact
`
`networks that are found.
`
` Q. As someone who professes expertise in
`
`Bluetooth, can you identify any type of Bluetooth
`
`connection?
`
` A. As I said, it's a standardized protocol. So
`
`I would defer to the standard at the time of this
`
`patent, at the time of filing, and at the time of
`
`invention. The type of Bluetooth connections that
`
`were widely known would be covered by the version 2.1
`
`plus EDR.
`
` Q. Can you identify any types of Bluetooth
`
`connections as of the final date?
`
` A. Yes. There are those that are covered by
`
`the version 2.1 plus EDR standard that was issued in
`
`July of 2007 and earlier standards.
`
`800.808.4958
`
`770.343.9696
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`
`Canon Exhibit 1042, Page 7
`
`
`
`Vijay Madisetti , Ph.D.
`Canon U.S.A., Inc. Vs. Cellspin Soft, Inc.
`
`June 12, 2019
`
`Page 7
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` Q. Do you know the names of any?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. What?
`
` A. You mean the standards?
`
` Q. Say again.
`
` A. You said the names of the standards?
`
` Q. No.
`
` Do you know the names of any -- I keep
`
`asking you if you can name any type of Bluetooth
`
`connection. Can you not?
`
` MR. NEWTON: Objection.
`
` THE WITNESS: No. I mean, as I said, in
`
` version 2.1 there are specifically, depending on
`
` the type of security mode -- in the case of
`
` security mode 2 and 3, there would be, for
`
` example, connections that would be based on
`
` legacy pin type of information.
`
` In the case of Bluetooth 2.1 plus EDR and
`
` earlier, in security mode 4, there would be at
`
` least four different types. One of them is
`
` called numeric comparison. The second could be
`
` passkey and then there is two or three others.
`
` So depending on the standard, depending on
`
` the security mode, in this case 2.1 would support
`
` security mode 3, security mode 4. You have
`
`800.808.4958
`
`770.343.9696
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`
`Canon Exhibit 1042, Page 8
`
`
`
`Vijay Madisetti , Ph.D.
`Canon U.S.A., Inc. Vs. Cellspin Soft, Inc.
`
`June 12, 2019
`
`Page 8
`
` different types of connections that are
`
` established. So the standard is where all this
`
` information is described in its most precise
`
` form.
`
`BY MR. EDMONDS:
`
` Q. Can Bluetooth be used to form a piconet?
`
`P-I-C-O-N-E-T for our court reporter.
`
` A. Again, I'm going to defer to the standard as
`
`specifically how it discloses it.
`
` Q. Sitting here today as an expert in the case,
`
`do you have an understanding either way as to whether
`
`Bluetooth can be used to form a piconet?
`
` A. Bluetooth can be used to form certain types
`
`of ad hoc networks. Common ad hoc networks could
`
`include -- and the common ad hoc networks are given
`
`various names by the -- by the -- by the general
`
`community, but the standard would be where you would
`
`be precisely defining each of those.
`
` Q. What types of common ad hoc networks were
`
`you just referring to?
`
` A. Those are -- there are a number of types of
`
`ad hoc networks that can be formed; and these type of
`
`networks are described, for example, in different
`
`versions of the standards.
`
` Q. Can you name any of them?
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`800.808.4958
`
`770.343.9696
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`
`Canon Exhibit 1042, Page 9
`
`
`
`Vijay Madisetti , Ph.D.
`Canon U.S.A., Inc. Vs. Cellspin Soft, Inc.
`
`June 12, 2019
`
`Page 9
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` A. We have to defer to the standard. Most of
`
`the names are -- that you're referring to, for
`
`example, piconet and scatternet and others are
`
`generally given by the professional community. The
`
`standard is where they're -- these networks are
`
`precisely defined.
`
` Q. Okay. Can you name any of these types of ad
`
`hoc networks either in the language used in the
`
`community or in the standard?
`
` A. As I said, in the general manner, we have to
`
`defer to the standard; and Bluetooth standard 2.1
`
`plus EDR of July of 2007 is the one that I've been
`
`referring to. And common -- these are different
`
`types of ad hoc networks; and, as I said, different
`
`professional communities may have different names
`
`such as ad hoc networks, personal networks. As you
`
`said, some people may refer to it as piconet. Some
`
`people refer to certain things as scatternet. But in
`
`all cases, the standard is the determining factor in
`
`terms of defining these.
`
` Q. In the Bluetooth standard 2.1 that you
`
`mentioned, what is an ACL connection?
`
` A. I would have to refer to the standard to
`
`offer a precise answer.
`
` Q. Can you give any answer as to what it is?
`
`800.808.4958
`
`770.343.9696
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`
`Canon Exhibit 1042, Page 10
`
`
`
`Vijay Madisetti , Ph.D.
`Canon U.S.A., Inc. Vs. Cellspin Soft, Inc.
`
`June 12, 2019
`
`Page 10
`
` A. Not without looking at the standard because
`
`I want to be very precise.
`
` Q. In Bluetooth 2.1, what's an SCO connection?
`
` A. This is another type of connection that is
`
`defined, and I would defer to the standard to offer a
`
`very precise answer.
`
` Q. Can you give any answer as to what it is?
`
` A. I would like to refer to the standard. I
`
`believe that these are different types of features of
`
`the standard, and I want to be very precise.
`
` Q. I'm not asking what you would like to do.
`
`I'm asking as an expert in this case can you describe
`
`in any manner what an SCO connection is in Bluetooth
`
`2.1?
`
` MR. NEWTON: Objection.
`
` THE WITNESS: As I said, I'm not as specific
`
` in my declaration; but, as I said, I have -- I
`
` would like to defer to the standard to give a
`
` precise answer.
`
`BY MR. EDMONDS:
`
` Q. Again, I'm not asking what you would like to
`
`do. I'm asking can you, without looking at the
`
`standard, provide any information as to what an SCO
`
`connection is in Bluetooth 2.1?
`
` MR. NEWTON: Objection.
`
`800.808.4958
`
`770.343.9696
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`Canon Exhibit 1042, Page 11
`
`
`
`Vijay Madisetti , Ph.D.
`Canon U.S.A., Inc. Vs. Cellspin Soft, Inc.
`
`June 12, 2019
`
`Page 11
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` THE WITNESS: No, not without looking at a
`
` standard. I would like to give a precise
`
` standard given the important nature of this
`
` proceeding.
`
`BY MR. EDMONDS:
`
` Q. Is pairing optional in Bluetooth?
`
` A. The question is not clear.
`
` Q. What's not clear about it?
`
` A. What are you asking? Is there a portion of
`
`my declaration you're referring to?
`
` Q. We'll get to that in a minute.
`
` I'm asking you as an expert, someone who
`
`holds himself out as an expert in Bluetooth, is
`
`pairing optional in Bluetooth?
`
` A. I'm not aware, generally speaking, of
`
`Bluetooth establishing a connection without pairing.
`
` Q. All right. I'm not asking you whether
`
`you're aware generally of whether Bluetooth can
`
`establish a connection without pairing. My question
`
`is, is pairing optional in Bluetooth, yes or no?
`
` A. As I said, I'm not aware of any Bluetooth
`
`connection based on my review of the standards and my
`
`knowledge and experience where there is no pairing in
`
`Bluetooth connections.
`
` MR. EDMONDS: This is going to be Exhibit 1.
`
`800.808.4958
`
`770.343.9696
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`
`Canon Exhibit 1042, Page 12
`
`
`
`Vijay Madisetti , Ph.D.
`Canon U.S.A., Inc. Vs. Cellspin Soft, Inc.
`
`June 12, 2019
`
`Page 12
`
` (Exhibit 1 was marked for
`
` identification, attached at the end of
`
` the original transcript.)
`
`BY MR. EDMONDS:
`
` Q. It's 2006 in the proceeding. If you turn
`
`to -- so it's the -- it's the sixth page of Exhibit
`
`1. It's page 861 of Exhibit 2006.
`
` A. Which page I'm looking at?
`
` Q. It says 861 at the bottom. There's a
`
`flowchart on it.
`
` A. Okay.
`
` Q. Let me see what page you're on.
`
` A. Yes.
`
` MR. NEWTON: So that's just an excerpt of
`
` 2006?
`
` MR. EDMONDS: Yeah. It's like a thousand
`
` pages or something or whatever it was.
`
`BY MR. EDMONDS:
`
` Q. Do you see step 7a?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. Where it says optional pairing for ACL
`
`connections?
`
` A. There's a step 7a.
`
` Q. Yeah.
`
` A. With a block that says, optional pairing.
`
`800.808.4958
`
`770.343.9696
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`Canon Exhibit 1042, Page 13
`
`
`
`Vijay Madisetti , Ph.D.
`Canon U.S.A., Inc. Vs. Cellspin Soft, Inc.
`
`June 12, 2019
`
`Page 13
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` Q. Right.
`
` That's an example of optional pairing in
`
`Bluetooth 2.1, correct?
`
` MR. NEWTON: Objection; outside the scope.
`
` THE WITNESS: I disagree. I have not
`
` commented on this portion. I would just say that
`
` there's an optional step, and my reliance on the
`
` Bluetooth is to show that the use of BT in the
`
` prior references -- the use of Bluetooth in the
`
` prior references renders the claim limitations
`
` obvious.
`
` So I don't require in any case that
`
` Bluetooth must have any. I'm using it in
`
` paragraphs of my declaration. For example, in
`
` Hiroishi, which has explicit disclosure of
`
` pairing separate from Bluetooth, that the
`
` additional mention of BT, or Bluetooth, in
`
` Hiroishi renders obvious to one of ordinary skill
`
` in the art that pairing is obvious.
`
` (Exhibit 2 was marked for
`
` identification, attached at the end of
`
` the original transcript.)
`
`BY MR. EDMONDS:
`
` Q. I'm handing you Exhibit 2, which is also
`
`Canon Exhibit 1005. That is Hiroishi, correct?
`
`800.808.4958
`
`770.343.9696
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`
`Canon Exhibit 1042, Page 14
`
`
`
`Vijay Madisetti , Ph.D.
`Canon U.S.A., Inc. Vs. Cellspin Soft, Inc.
`
`June 12, 2019
`
`Page 14
`
` A. Yes. Exhibit 2 is Hiroishi.
`
` Q. You have your declarations in front of you,
`
`correct?
`
` A. I do.
`
` Q. Show us in your declaration where you point
`
`out that Hiroishi discloses pairing separate from
`
`Bluetooth.
`
` A. If I go to my declaration, which is Canon
`
`Exhibit 1003, and I go to my description of
`
`limitation 1(c) --
`
` Q. Hold on. What page are you on?
`
` A. Page 56 of my declaration.
`
` Q. Okay.
`
` A. I refer to paragraph 66 of Hiroishi, which
`
`is Exhibit 1005 of the IPR, and Exhibit 2 of this
`
`deposition --
`
` Q. Hold on. You're on page 56?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. All right.
`
` A. So in paragraph 97, 98, and 99, I discuss
`
`how limitation 1 says explicitly and met by Hiroishi
`
`itself. Plus, the mention of Bluetooth in Hiroishi
`
`is obvious to one of ordinary skill in the art. I
`
`defer to paragraph 66 where the embodiment of figure
`
`5 shows that there is a mechanism of association that
`
`800.808.4958
`
`770.343.9696
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`Canon Exhibit 1042, Page 15
`
`
`
`Vijay Madisetti , Ph.D.
`Canon U.S.A., Inc. Vs. Cellspin Soft, Inc.
`
`June 12, 2019
`
`Page 15
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`allows two-way communications using the remote
`
`control switches so the camera and the mobile phone
`
`have specific mechanisms that allow them to associate
`
`through the use of these remote control switches that
`
`can be set for them to have and establish two-way
`
`communications through this sort of mutual agreement.
`
` Q. So in your declaration, it states, the
`
`connection is paired because it allows two-way
`
`communication between the digital camera 50 and
`
`cellular phone 40.
`
` Did I read that correctly?
`
` A. Yes. I was referring to the embodiment
`
`described in Exhibit 1005, paragraph 66, which is the
`
`embodiment that is covered, for example, in figures 5
`
`and 6.
`
` Q. Okay. So what is it -- read the language,
`
`the words, from paragraph 66 of Hiroishi that
`
`supports your statement that Hiroishi discloses
`
`pairing separate from Bluetooth?
`
` A. Yes. So it describes here that the --
`
` Q. I'm just asking you to read the words and
`
`then we can get into -- we'll get into -- we'll go
`
`from there. If you could just read the words you're
`
`relying on for paragraph 66.
`
` A. Well, I'm relying on the photographic system
`
`800.808.4958
`
`770.343.9696
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`
`Canon Exhibit 1042, Page 16
`
`
`
`Vijay Madisetti , Ph.D.
`Canon U.S.A., Inc. Vs. Cellspin Soft, Inc.
`
`June 12, 2019
`
`Page 16
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`10, according to this embodiment, is configured. So
`
`when you look at this embodiment and how it's
`
`configured, you refer to figures 5 and 6; and that is
`
`where I discuss the specific views of the remote
`
`control switches that allow the camera and the mobile
`
`phone to be paired. And this is consistent with how
`
`the patent -- the 690 patent in columns 3 and 4
`
`discloses how two devices can communicate with mutual
`
`agreement.
`
` Q. Is every two-way communication a paired
`
`communication?
`
` A. I'm not trying to offer an explicit
`
`construction or definition for pairing. Further
`
`context of this matter, I have applied what one of
`
`ordinary skill in the art in light of the '698
`
`specification to understand what pairing to mean.
`
` Q. Yes or no, is every two-way communication
`
`pairing as you're using the word in your declaration?
`
` MR. NEWTON: Objection.
`
` THE WITNESS: That's not my testimony. My
`
` testimony is that as I understand it, in light of
`
` the specification, it is a mechanism or
`
` association that allows two devices or two-way
`
` communication between two devices. That's how I
`
` understand how a person of ordinary skill in the
`
`800.808.4958
`
`770.343.9696
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`
`Canon Exhibit 1042, Page 17
`
`
`
`Vijay Madisetti , Ph.D.
`Canon U.S.A., Inc. Vs. Cellspin Soft, Inc.
`
`June 12, 2019
`
`Page 17
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` art would understand pairing in light of the
`
` specification of the '698 patent. For example,
`
` columns 3 and 4.
`
`BY MR. EDMONDS:
`
` Q. So then is it your opinion that every
`
`mechanism that allows association -- I'm sorry. Is
`
`it your --
`
` MR. NEWTON: Hang on. Let's not have the
`
` chatter back and forth. I'm perfectly fine with
`
` you being here, sir; but you're not counsel
`
` and --
`
` MR. EDMONDS: He can whisper to me. He's
`
` not asking questions.
`
` MR. NEWTON: I mean, he's not counsel.
`
` MR. EDMONDS: He can whisper to me.
`
` MR. NEWTON: No.
`
` MR. EDMONDS: I mean, I moved over here. He
`
` can whisper in my ear. He just can't --
`
` MR. NEWTON: Is he -- sorry. Are you an
`
` attorney in the matter?
`
` MR. EDMONDS: This is Mr. Singh. He's a
`
` principal of Cellspin.
`
` MR. NEWTON: Well, if he's not an attorney,
`
` he shouldn't be influencing your deposition. If
`
` he wants to sit here and observe, that's
`
`800.808.4958
`
`770.343.9696
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`
`Canon Exhibit 1042, Page 18
`
`
`
`Vijay Madisetti , Ph.D.
`Canon U.S.A., Inc. Vs. Cellspin Soft, Inc.
`
`June 12, 2019
`
`Page 18
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` perfectly fine.
`
` MR. EDMONDS: I note your objection.
`
`BY MR. EDMONDS:
`
` Q. Is it your testimony that every mechanism or
`
`association that allows two-way communication between
`
`two devices is a pairing?
`
` MR. NEWTON: Objection.
`
` THE WITNESS: No. My testimony was that
`
` pairing, as understood by one of ordinary skill
`
` in the art in the light of the specification of
`
` the '698 patent, is a mechanism or association
`
` that allows two-way communication between
`
` devices. I'm not offering an explicit
`
` construction or an expressed construction. I am
`
` expressing what POSITA, or one of ordinary skill
`
` in the art, would understand the '698 patent to
`
` describe what pairing is used in that context.
`
`BY MR. EDMONDS:
`
` Q. In that context, is any mechanism or
`
`association that allows two-way communication between
`
`devices a pairing?
`
` MR. NEWTON: Objection.
`
` THE WITNESS: I think my answer was, I
`
` think, very clear. It is a mechanism or
`
` association that allows two devices to have
`
`800.808.4958
`
`770.343.9696
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`
`Canon Exhibit 1042, Page 19
`
`
`
`Vijay Madisetti , Ph.D.
`Canon U.S.A., Inc. Vs. Cellspin Soft, Inc.
`
`June 12, 2019
`
`Page 19
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` two-way communication. Allows means something
`
` like agreement. And this is consistent with the
`
` disclosures in the '698 patent.
`
`BY MR. EDMONDS:
`
` Q. Yes or no, is any mechanism or association
`
`that allows two-way communication between two devices
`
`a pairing in the context of the patent, as you've
`
`used the word?
`
` MR. NEWTON: Objection; asked and answered.
`
` THE WITNESS: As I described it earlier, the
`
` way I would understand it is an
`
` association/mechanism that allows or enables
`
` two-way communications between devices; and this
`
` is not an expressed construction. This is
`
` something that I view as one of ordinary skill in
`
` the art would understand based on the '698
`
` specification itself.
`
`BY MR. EDMONDS:
`
` Q. So consistent with that, if what you just
`
`stated, are there other associations or mechanisms
`
`that allow two-way communication between devices that
`
`would not be pairing?
`
` MR. NEWTON: Objection; asked and answered.
`
` THE WITNESS: As I said, in my opinion, I
`
` have already defined in Hiroishi and other prior
`
`800.808.4958
`
`770.343.9696
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`
`Canon Exhibit 1042, Page 20
`
`
`
`Vijay Madisetti , Ph.D.
`Canon U.S.A., Inc. Vs. Cellspin Soft, Inc.
`
`June 12, 2019
`
`Page 20
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` arts what I understand to be the type of pairing
`
` that is described and understood by one of
`
` ordinary skill in the art in the '698 patent.
`
`BY MR. EDMONDS:
`
` Q. How does Bluetooth define pairing?
`
` A. I couldn't hear you.
`
` Q. How does Bluetooth define pairing?
`
` A. I think that one of ordinary skill in the
`
`art reading the specification would understand that
`
`Bluetooth discloses pairing, and that's how I relied
`
`upon Bluetooth to disclose pairing for obviousness.
`
` Q. How does Bluetooth define pairing; do you
`
`know?
`
` MR. NEWTON: Objection; asked and answered.
`
` THE WITNESS: In Bluetooth, as I
`
` described -- as I described earlier, there is a
`
` mechanism that through mutual agreement allows
`
` two devices to communicate in two ways -- in a
`
` two-way communication. Therefore, consistent
`
` with my understanding of the '698 patent,
`
` Bluetooth would disclose pairing at the time of
`
` the 2007 time frame.
`
` Further, I also observe that the '698 patent
`
` is not restricted only to Bluetooth pairing. It
`
` also mentions other types of approaches such as
`
`800.808.4958
`
`770.343.9696
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`
`Canon Exhibit 1042, Page 21
`
`
`
`Vijay Madisetti , Ph.D.
`Canon U.S.A., Inc. Vs. Cellspin Soft, Inc.
`
`June 12, 2019
`
`Page 21
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` library and other such standards.
`
` MR. EDMONDS: Objection; nonresponsive.
`
`BY MR. EDMONDS:
`
` Q. Does both Bluetooth define pairing, yes or
`
`no?
`
` A. Based on my understanding of the '698
`
`patent, Bluetooth has a mechanism that enables two
`
`devices to communicate in a two-way fashion through
`
`mutual agreement, so it does disclose pairing.
`
` MR. EDMONDS: Objection; nonresponsive.
`
`BY MR. EDMONDS:
`
` Q. Does the Bluetooth specification 2.1 define
`
`pairing?
`
` A. I'm not sure about your -- you use the word
`
`define. One of ordinary skill in the art, I said,
`
`would understand that Bluetooth specification 2.1 and
`
`earlier provide a mechanism that allows two devices
`
`to have two-way communications through mutual
`
`agreement. So to one of ordinary skill in the art,
`
`this is the type of pairing that one would understand
`
`the '698 patent to also describe.
`
` MR. EDMONDS: Objection; nonresponsive.
`
`BY MR. EDMONDS:
`
` Q. Do you understand what a definition is?
`
` A. Maybe you have to be clear. I mean, what
`
`800.808.4958
`
`770.343.9696
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`
`Canon Exhibit 1042, Page 22
`
`
`
`Vijay Madisetti , Ph.D.
`Canon U.S.A., Inc. Vs. Cellspin Soft, Inc.
`
`June 12, 2019
`
`Page 22
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`are you asking?
`
` Q. Have you ever used the word "definition"?
`
` A. I must have.
`
` Q. Okay. Yes or no, does Bluetooth 2.1 define
`
`pairing?
`
` A. Again, I don't think there's a yes or no
`
`answer for that. As I described, pairing as used in
`
`the '698 patent is disclosed in the Bluetooth
`
`specification in that it allows mechanism that or
`
`association that allows two-way communications
`
`between devices.
`
` MR. EDMONDS: Objection nonresponsive to
`
` everything after I can't answer yes or no.
`
`BY MR. EDMONDS:
`
` Q. If you would take Exhibit 2, please, and I'm
`
`handing you a highlighter. Actually, let's just
`
`do -- it will work better if we underline it. I'm
`
`going to hand you a pen -- I'm going to hand you a
`
`pencil in case you need to correct it. Here's a
`
`pencil.
`
` Please underline the language in paragraph
`
`66 that you're relying on for your statement that
`
`Takahashi expressly discloses -- I'll start over.
`
` Please use the pencil to underline the
`
`language you're relying in paragraph 66 of Hiroishi
`
`800.808.4958
`
`770.343.9696
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`
`Canon Exhibit 1042, Page 23
`
`
`
`Vijay Madisetti , Ph.D.
`Canon U.S.A., Inc. Vs. Cellspin Soft, Inc.
`
`June 12, 2019
`
`Page 23
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`for your statement that Hiroishi expressly discloses
`
`pairing independent of Bluetooth?
`
` A. Yes. I would say it is the -- as I describe
`
`here, the photographic system 10, according to this
`
`embodiment; and that embodiment discloses figures 5
`
`and 6.
`
` Q. Okay. So the language you've underlined is
`
`the photographic system 10 according to this
`
`embodiment?
`
` A. That's right. That is where it explicitly
`
`discloses -- for example, in figure five, which talks
`
`about the block on page 18 of Canon Exhibit 1005,
`
`which is Exhibit 2 to this deposition, there is a
`
`block called 100 and that, for example, is a
`
`mechanism that allows and enables two-way
`
`communication in what is called the remote control
`
`mode.
`
` Q. Okay.
`
` A. And similarly in figure 6 you have the
`
`corresponding mode disclosed in block number 202.
`
`That is called the photographic mode. So you are
`
`specifically setting these modes so that you are
`
`enabling two-way communications between the camera
`
`and the mobile phone in this embodiment.
`
` Additionally, I use paragraph 66 to show
`
`800.808.4958
`
`770.343.9696
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`
`Canon Exhibit 1042, Page 24
`
`
`
`Vijay Madisetti , Ph.D.
`Canon U.S.A., Inc. Vs. Cellspin Soft, Inc.
`
`June 12, 2019
`
`Page 24
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`that the use of beacon or Bluetooth also renders this
`
`limitation 1(c) obvious because Bluetooth discloses
`
`pairing as described in this '698 patent.
`
` Q. Are all two-way communications paired?
`
` MR. NEWTON: Objection; asked and answered.
`
` THE WITNESS: The way I have understood
`
` pairing is that there has to be a mechanism that
`
` enables two-way communications between two
`
` devices and both the '698 specification and
`
` Hiroishi and the other product references I rely
`
` upon, for this limitation disclosed that there is
`
` a mechanism such as the remote control switches
`
` in the camera and the photographic mode in the
`
` mobile phone that are used to establish a mutual
`
` agreement for these two devices to communicate.
`
` This is consistent with the disclosures in
`
` columns 3 and 4 of the '698 patent specification.
`
`BY MR. EDMONDS:
`
` Q. At the time of the priority date of the '698
`
`patent -- and that's -- you mentioned that before.
`
`You said that December of 2007, correct?
`
` MR. NEWTON: Objection.
`
` THE WITNESS: I'm not offering an opinion as
`
` to the priority date of the patent. For the
`
` purposes of this IPR, I have been asked to assume
`
`800.808.4958
`
`770.343.9696
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`
`Canon Exhibit 1042, Page 25
`
`
`
`Vijay Madisetti , Ph.D.
`Canon U.S.A., Inc. Vs. Cellspin Soft, Inc.
`
`June 12, 2019
`
`Page 25
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` that the priority date is December of 2007.
`
`BY MR. EDMONDS:
`
` Q. Okay. So I'm just making sure we're
`
`communicating. When you say priority date, you're
`
`referring to December of 2007, correct?
`
` A. I was asked assume December 2007 as the time
`
`mentioned.
`
` Q. So when I say priority date, you'll
`
`understand that I'm talking about December of 2007 in
`
`the context of this conversat
Accessing this document will incur an additional charge of $.
After purchase, you can access this document again without charge.
Accept $ Charge
Still Working On It
This document is taking longer than usual to download. This can happen if we need to contact the court directly to obtain the document and their servers are running slowly.
Give it another minute or two to complete, and then try the refresh button.
A few More Minutes ... Still Working
It can take up to 5 minutes for us to download a document if the court servers are running slowly.
Thank you for your continued patience.
This document could not be displayed.
We could not find this document within its docket. Please go back to the docket page and check the link. If that does not work, go back to the docket and refresh it to pull the newest information.
Your account does not support viewing this document.
You need a Paid Account to view this document. Click here to change your account type.
Your account does not support viewing this document.
Set your membership
status to view this document.
With a Docket Alarm membership, you'll
get a whole lot more, including:
- Up-to-date information for this case.
- Email alerts whenever there is an update.
- Full text search for other cases.
- Get email alerts whenever a new case matches your search.
One Moment Please
The filing “” is large (MB) and is being downloaded.
Please refresh this page in a few minutes to see if the filing has been downloaded. The filing will also be emailed to you when the download completes.
Your document is on its way!
If you do not receive the document in five minutes, contact support at support@docketalarm.com.
Sealed Document
We are unable to display this document, it may be under a court ordered seal.
If you have proper credentials to access the file, you may proceed directly to the court's system using your government issued username and password.
Access Government Site
