UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`---oOo---
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`Page 1
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` NETFLIX, INC.,
`
`Petitioner,
`
`vs.
` REALTIME ADAPTIVE STREAMING,
` LLC,
`Patent Owner.
` ____________________________/
`
`Case No.: IPR2018-01630
`Patent No. 9,769,477
`Case No.:IPR2018-01187
`Patent No. 9,769,477
`
`DEPOSITION OF DR. JAMES ANDREW STORER
`May 7, 2019
`Palo Alto, California
`
`Reported By:
`Carly C. Tillotson, CSR No. 13627
`Job no: 25212
`
`Ex. 2003
`Netflix v. Realtime
`IPR2018-01630
`
`TransPerfect Legal Solutions
`212-400-8845 - Depo@TransPerfect.com
`
`

`

`Page 2
` DEPOSITION OF DR. JAMES ANDREW STORER
` Date: May 7, 2019
` Time: 11:05 a.m.
` Location: Sheppard, Mullin, Richter & Hampton, LLP
` 379 Lytton Avenue
` Palo Alto, California 94301
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`Page 3
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` APPEARANCES
`
`
` For the Petitioner, NETFLIX, INC.
` SHEPPARD MULLIN, RICHTER & HAMPTON, LLP
` BY: HARPER BATTS, ESQ.
` JEFFREY LIANG, ESQ.
` 379 Lytton Avenue
` Palo Alto, California 94301
` Tel: (650) 815-2673
` Fax: (650) 815-2601
` E-mail: hbatts@sheppardmullin.com
` jliang@sheppardmullin.com
` For the Patent Owner, REALTIME ADAPTIVE STREAMING, LLC:
` NOROOZI PC
` BY: JOEL P.N. STONEDALE, ESQ.
` 2245 Texas Drive, Suite 300
` Sugar Land, Texas 77479
` Tel: (310) 975-7074
` E-mail: joel@noroozipc.com
`
` Also present:
`
` PATRICK PACHECO
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`Page 4
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` INDEX OF EXAMINATION
`
` EXAMINATION PAGE
`
` By Mr. Stonedale 5
`
` ---oOo---
`
` INDEX OF EXHIBITS
` EXHIBIT DESCRIPTION PAGE
` A Declaration - IPR2018-01187 10
` B Declaration - IPR2018-01630 11
` C Patent Application/
` Certificate 17
`
` D U.S. Patent - No. 6,507,611 17
`
` E Translation of Imai 21
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` F U.S. Patent - No. 9,769,477 41
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`Page 5
` BE IT REMEMBERED that, pursuant to Notice and on
` TUESDAY, MAY 7, 2019, commencing at the hour of
` 11:05 a.m. of said day, at Sheppard Mullin, 379 Lytton
` Avenue, Palo Alto, California, before me,
` CARLY C. TILLOTSON, Certified Shorthand Reporter
` No. 13627, in and for the State of California, personally
` appeared:
` ---oOo---
` DR. JAMES ANDREW STORER,
` being first duly sworn by me to tell the truth,
` was examined and testified as follows:
` EXAMINATION BY JOEL P.N. STONEDALE, ESQ.
` BY MR. STONEDALE:
` Q. Hello, Dr. Storer. Thank you for coming today.
` I just want to go over a few basic things before we
` start -- or as we start. We have started.
` Could you please state your name and address?
` A. Yes. My name is James Andrew Storer,
` S-T-O-R-E-R. And I live in Lincoln, Massachusetts.
` Q. Okay. And how did you prepare for today's
` deposition?
` A. Well, mainly, I prepared two declarations which
` actually are here in front of me, two fairly large
` declarations.
` Q. Did you meet with your team -- your legal team
`2 (Pages 2 to 5)
`
`

`

`Page 6
` here in the last several days to go over your materials
` for -- in preparation for this deposition?
` MR. BATTS: I'll just warn you not to talk about
` the substance of meetings, but you can certainly tell him
` about meetings with people and time.
` THE WITNESS: I don't know exactly what would be
` considered preparation for the deposition -- other
` subject matter. I did have lunch with the attorneys
` yesterday.
` BY MR. STONEDALE:
` Q. Have you reviewed your declaration in this case
` in the last two weeks?
` A. On the plane out here, I did look at portions of
` both declarations.
` Q. And did you do that with an eye to this coming
` deposition?
` (Reporter asked for clarification.)
` A. Could you repeat the question?
` Q. Did you review your declaration with an eye
` towards this coming deposition?
` A. Well, there are a number of depositions because
` there are common specifications to a number of different
` patents that real time has asserted, so I can't precisely
` say whether the review would have general value given
` that there may be others to come. But certainly,
`
`Page 7
` obviously, I was on the plane coming out here for this
` one and certainly had this deposition in mind.
` Q. Okay. As far as all three depositions that
` you'll be participating in regarding the Realtime patent,
` which documents did you review in order to prepare for
` those depositions?
` A. I'm not sure I understand your question. Are
` you talking about depositions that occurred in the past,
` may occur in the future or today?
` Q. The -- well, for example, today's deposition.
` Did you review any documents in preparation for today's
` deposition?
` A. Again, we -- I think you asked this before. I
` am not exactly sure what you're encompassing in terms of
` "in preparation for," but as I mentioned, on the plane --
` you asked about the two expert -- the two declarations in
` front of me here. I did look at portions of those on the
` plane.
` Q. Okay. And did you look at any other documents
` while on the plane?
` A. I can't remember specifically now, but generally
` speaking, I would have probably looked at portions of
` some of the prior art cited in those two declarations.
` Q. Have you reviewed the institution decision in
` this case?
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`Page 8
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` A. At some point I did, in the past, review it,
` yes.
` Q. And have you -- have you reviewed the
` institution decision in the second petition e-mailed on
` the -- or the second petition which you provided a
` declaration on the 477 patent?
` (Reporter asked for clarification.)
` A. Yes. I believe so. Again, I don't have a
` specific memory of the moment, but I recall looking at
` the institution decisions at some point.
` Q. All right. And have you discussed the substance
` of those documents and this deposition with your legal
` team in the last two weeks?
` MR. BATTS: I'm going to object to the extent
` you're requesting communications -- privileged
` communications with counsel. Instruct the witness not to
` answer.
` MR. STONEDALE: I am not requesting the
` substance of the communication. I am wondering if
` you-all have met and discussed in preparation for the
` deposition.
` MR. BATTS: I'm going to maintain the objection
` since you're asking about what the topics or substance of
` communications were and instruct the witness not to
` answer.
`
`Page 9
`
` BY MR. STONEDALE:
` Q. Are there any opinions in either of the two
` declarations that pertain to the 477 patent that you now
` believe are not true?
` A. At times in the past or on the plane when I
` looked at the declarations, I may have noticed minor
` typos or things which were obvious from context, but I
` don't recall anything that was in error.
` Q. So you stand by the substance of all the
` statements in your declaration; is that correct?
` A. What do you mean by "stand by"? I just said I
` believe that I wrote the declarations and I stated my
` opinions and believe them to be correct. I'm not sure
` what else it is you're asking.
` Q. Well, specifically, I'm asking, you believe the
` substance of all the opinions stated in your declarations
` are correct; is that true?
` A. To the extent that -- I mean, obviously there
` could be other things you ask me and I have additional
` opinions to supplement the declaration if there are other
` questions you have. But so far, as I mentioned before, I
` have nothing that I've seen, looking back, that I
` would -- that I would say is incorrect other than perhaps
` minor typos that were obvious from context.
` Q. Okay. Thank you. In -- in ground 3 in the
`3 (Pages 6 to 9)
`
`

`

`Page 10
` first declaration you submitted on the '477 patent, do
` you recall that you offered an opinion that a person of
` ordinary skill in the art would create a combined system
` of Imai and Pauls.
` (Reporter asked for clarification.)
` MR. BATTS: Imai and Pauls, P-A-U-L-S. Imai is
` I-M-A-I.
` THE WITNESS: So maybe you can be more specific.
` When you say "Ground 3," specifically what are you
` referring to?
` BY MR. STONEDALE:
` Q. Do you have your declaration in Case
` Number 20181187 in front of you?
` A. I do.
` Q. Okay. Can we call that Exhibit A?
` A. Sure.
` THE COURT REPORTER: Am I marking that now?
` MR. STONEDALE: Yes, please.
` (Exhibit A was marked for identification.)
` Q. Do you recall in your declaration offering an
` opinion that a POSITA, which stands for "person of
` ordinary skill in the art," would combine the systems of
` Imai and Pauls?
` A. So I'm looking at the table of contents, for
` example, of the declaration, as you indicate
`
`Page 11
` IPR2018-01187, and the -- I think what you refer to "the
` grounds" are listed not as 1, 2, 3, but A, B, C. And C,
` in looking at the table of contents, says, "Claims 1, 3-6
` and 9-14 of the '477 patent are obvious based on Imai in
` view of Pauls."
` Is that what you're referring to?
` Q. Yes, it is.
` A. Okay.
` Q. And so do you recall that in your declaration in
` the second case pertaining to the '477 patent, which you
` filed the declaration, you also offered an opinion that a
` person of ordinary skill in the art would combine Imai
` and Pauls?
` A. Okay. So I've just moved over to the
` declaration -- by the way, do you want to mark this one
` or not? It's up to you.
` MR. STONEDALE: Yes. We can mark it B, if you
` would like.
` (Exhibit B was marked for identification.)
` THE WITNESS: Okay. So now I'm looking at
` what's been labeled "B," IPR2018-01360.
` And could you repeat your question?
` BY MR. STONEDALE:
` Q. If you look at Section 8 A -- Roman
` numeral VIII, Section A, you offer the opinion that
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`Page 12
` certain claims are obvious in view of a combination of
` Imai and Pauls. That's on page 48 of that declaration.
` A. Yes. I see that in the table of contents, yes.
` Q. Now, my question is: These two combinations you
` describe in each of the declaration that a POSITA would
` make of Imai and Pauls, are you describing the same
` combination?
` (Reporter asked for clarification.)
` A. Both declarations are referring to the same two
` documents, Imai and Pauls.
` Q. I'm asking you if a person of ordinary skill in
` the art would combine them in the same way to render both
` sets of claims obvious.
` MR. BATTS: Objection. Form.
` THE WITNESS: Usually, I think if you look at
` the reports, you think of the claims, the independent
` claims, as standing separately, and you talk about an
` independent claim being -- being rendered obvious by the
` art. I'm not sure about whether the phraseology in my
` reports talks about collectively, the claims together.
` I may summarize that in all cases, looking at
` each of the independent claims asserted, my opinion was
` that they were rendered obvious in light of certain prior
` art. But I'm not quite sure about the form of your
` question. I may misunderstand it.
`
`Page 13
`
` BY MR. STONEDALE:
` Q. Yeah. So, do you offer the opinion that a -- a
` POSITA would combine the teaching of that art, Imai and
` Pauls, to create a particular system?
` A. So my memory is -- and, of course, if we want to
` go to each of the reports, we can look at what I said and
` refresh my memory -- is that I'm describing how it would
` be obvious of one of ordinary skill in the art to use the
` teachings of both or to incorporate the teachings of both
` or to use the teachings of one when viewing the other.
` I'm not exactly sure how to parse your words.
` Probably the best way would be to go to the sections in
` each of the reports and look at what is there, describing
` the motivation to combine the two references.
` Q. At a higher level first, I want to ask, do you
` express any opinion that a person of ordinary skill in
` the art would create any system based on the teachings of
` Imai and Pauls?
` A. Well, let me go look at those sections of the
` report to refresh my memory. Do you want to focus it on
` one report or the other, or are you asking generally
` about both reports?
` Q. Well, we can start with the first one. We can
` start with Exhibit A.
` A. Okay. (Witness reviewed document.) I've had a
`4 (Pages 10 to 13)
`
`

`

`Page 14
` chance to look at that section of the declaration. If
` you could repeat your question. Thanks.
` MR. STONEDALE: Could the court reporter please
` repeat the question?
` (Record was read back as requested.)
` THE WITNESS: So this section of the report is
` entitled "Motivation to combine Imai and Pauls is
` obvious." And I talk about a number of factors in a
` sequence of paragraphs. I note that both Imai and Pauls
` employ asymmetric coding methods. I note that both Imai
` and Pauls take into account the type of data.
` They also both address -- Imai says it could be
` video signals and Pauls actually addresses you could
` argue video signals and further depth methods that could
` be used. They also have selection mechanisms that are
` similar.
` And I say, for example -- maybe to get
` specifically to your question, if you go to
` paragraph 211, I say, "It is my opinion that it would
` have been obvious to combine the teachings of Imai and
` Pauls, such as to use the video compression algorithms of
` Pauls with the compression" --
` THE COURT REPORTER: Hold on. Slow down a
` little bit.
` THE WITNESS: -- "selection mechanisms as taught
`Page 15
`
` by either Imai or Pauls. Imai and Pauls teachings are
` presented in such a manner that generic encoders can be
` readily swapped in and out of the configuration."
` THE COURT REPORTER: I'm sorry. Just slow down
` a little.
` THE WITNESS: "For example, Imai teaches using
` off-the-shelf encoders such as" -- and he lists three
` acronyms: ATRAC, A-T-R-A-C; ATRAC 2 and MPEG, M-P-E-G,
` all in caps, those acronyms -- "audio layers 1, 2 and 3.
` These encoders can be easily modified or replaced to
` include the compression algorithms of Pauls, and Imai's
` teachings are structured to support such a
` configuration."
` BY MR. STONEDALE:
` Q. Do you offer the opinion that a POSITA would
` modify or replace any of those compression algorithms you
` just mentioned with any of the algorithms mentioned in
` Pauls?
` MR. BATTS: Objection. Form.
` THE WITNESS: Could you repeat the question?
` BY MR. STONEDALE:
` Q. Do you offer the opinion that a person of
` ordinary skill in the art would modify or replace any of
` the encoders mentioned in Imai with any of the encoders
` mentioned in Pauls?
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` MR. BATTS: Same objection.
` THE WITNESS: I think in order to answer your
` question, it would be useful to have a copy of Imai in
` front of me.
` MR. BATTS: I have the U.S. patent version.
` BY MR. STONEDALE:
` Q. Can we instead look at Pauls? Figure 5 of
` Pauls, I think, would be more concise.
` A. I'm happy to do that in order to answer your
` last question. Maybe you're changing your question. I
` would like to have Imai in front of me as well, if that's
` okay.
` Q. Okay. Yeah. We'll call that Exhibit C.
` MR. BATTS: So, Joel, to be clear, the copy of
` Imai's that I'm handing him is the U.S. patent. I don't
` think I have handy right now the translation of the
` Japanese patent.
` THE WITNESS: The figures in the U.S. patent are
` easier to read; however, all citations in my report go to
` the Japanese version. But I can navigate through the
` U.S. patent and go over to the Japanese version because I
` include a cross-reference in my report.
` It would be nice, at some point, to have the
` Japanese version here as well, but we can mark this at
` the moment. How about I mark the --
`
`Page 17
` MR. STONEDALE: Maybe we can -- maybe we can
` take a quick break and print out the translation, which I
` believe would let you cite to and quote from in your
` report, Exhibit 1005, the translation of Imai.
` A. That would be fine. In the meantime, maybe we
` can mark these as B and C [sic]..
` (Exhibits C and D were marked for
` identification.)
` MR. BATTS: So, Joel, for reference, Exhibit C
` is a copy of the Pauls reference.
` MR. STONEDALE: Okay.
` MR. BATTS: And Exhibit D is a copy of the U.S.
` version of Imai, and I've asked for --
` MR. STONEDALE: I'm sorry. When you said the
` U.S. version of Imai, are you talking about Exhibit 1005,
` which is the translation of Imai?
` MR. BATTS: No. It's the U.S. counterpart. So
` I've asked for a printout of the translation as well, but
` right now, he has the U.S. counterpart in front of him as
` Exhibit D.
` MR. STONEDALE: Okay. Thank you. And that's
` "D" as in dog?
` MR. BATTS: Correct. And I guess for the
` record, it is U.S. Patent Number 6507611.
` THE WITNESS: Do you want to go off the record
`5 (Pages 14 to 17)
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`

`

`Page 18
` to get the translation -- the Japanese translation as
` well, or do you want to go ahead with the question you
` had? I'm okay either way -- for now, anyway.
` BY MR. STONEDALE:
` Q. Well, I could ask you a question about your
` declaration. In your declaration, do you offer any
` opinion that a person of ordinary skill in the art would
` modify or replace any of the encoders in Imai's system
` with any of the encoders from Pauls' system -- in your
` declaration?
` A. So I'm not sure about the way you're
` characterizing as "modifying." If you look at Figure 4
` of Imai, it shows a very general structure where any
` number of coding units can be used. And it gives
` examples of things that could be those coding units in
` both Figure 5 and Figure 16.
` And those coding units, of course, could be many
` different things. It gives a number of examples in
` Figure 5, what methods might be used, for example. And
` so you certainly could be plugging in other things. I
` think Imai, clearly one of ordinary skill reading Imai
` understands that.
` And when I say in my report -- in paragraph 211,
` when I say, for example, "Imai teaches using
` off-the-shelf encoders, well-known encoders such as
`Page 19
` ATRAC, ATRAC 2 and MPEG audio layers 1, 2 and 3. These
` encoders can easily be modified or replaced to include
` the compression algorithms of Pauls, and Imai's teachings
` are structured to support such a configuration."
` Q. Do you offer the opinion in your declaration
` that a person of ordinary skill in the art would use any
` of the algorithms from Pauls in the system of Imai?
` MR. BATTS: Objection. Form.
` THE WITNESS: I'm not sure I understand your
` question. Could you repeat it?
` MR. STONEDALE: Could the court reporter please
` repeat the question?
` (Record was read back as requested.)
` THE WITNESS: So I'm not sure, when you're using
` the word "system algorithms," what exactly you're
` encompassing. But certainly, I think at least partially
` answering your question -- maybe fully answering your
` question -- what I just read, where -- the paragraph that
` I referred to just ended, saying, "These encoders can
` easily be modified or replaced to include the compression
` algorithms of Pauls, and Imai's teachings are structured
` to support such a configuration."
` I mean, it seems as though we just discussed
` this issue unless I misunderstand what else you're trying
` to put into the question.
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`Page 20
` Q. Well, you offered the opinion, though, that a
` person of ordinary skill in the art would actually use
` one of the encoders that Pauls mentioned in the system
` that Imai's described.
` MR. BATTS: Objection. There's no question.
` MR. STONEDALE: I think that was a question --
` or maybe it didn't all come through. Sorry.
` Could the court reporter read the question
` again?
` (Record was read back as requested.)
` BY MR. STONEDALE:
` Q. Do you offer the opinion that a person of
` ordinary skill in the art would use one of the encoders
` that Pauls mentioned in the system that Imai described?
` A. So, still seems like that sentence is highly
` relevant to your question. Let me read it again and then
` elaborate. "These encoders can easily be" -- "these
` encoders," referring to Imai -- "can easily be modified
` or replaced to include the compression algorithms of
` Pauls, and Imai's teachings are structured to support
` such a configuration."
` So not only did I point you to the generic
` diagram of Figure 4 of Imai that clearly shows different
` encoders that can be plugged in, including -- such as
` Figure 5, which has different algorithms it can use.
`Page 21
` You also see in Imai, specifically saying at one
` point towards the end, that his system could easily --
` could also be applied to video.
` And, of course, when Pauls talks about standards
` of the time, standards, in fact, that have been known for
` a decade, in some cases before the Fallon patent to those
` of ordinary skill in the art, for example.
` So when Pauls talks about MPEG, for example, for
` video, and it's an asymmetric method and Pauls is
` selecting it based on data type and other considerations,
` just as Imai does, and now Imai says, "Yeah. You can do
` this for video as well." Of course one of ordinary skill
` in the art would say, Sure. I can put in a known
` standard as one of those plug-ins that is shown in the
` figures of Imai.
` MR. BATTS: And, Joel, I have copies of
` Exhibit 1005 the translation of Imai, if you want to mark
` that.
` MR. STONEDALE: Sure. What exhibit letter is
` that?
` (Exhibit E was marked for identification).
` (Counsel conferred with the court reporter.)
` MR. STONEDALE: I'm sorry. Could you repeat the
` last question?
` (Record was read back as requested.)
`6 (Pages 18 to 21)
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` THE WITNESS: Wasn't that the one I just
` answered? Are we waiting for a new question, or did I
` misunderstand?
` BY MR. STONEDALE:
` Q. Oh, I'll ask a new question.
` Do you offer the opinion that it would be
` obvious to include MPEG to and --
` (Reporter asked for clarification.)
` Do you offer the opinion that it would be
` obvious to include the encoder MPEG -- that's M-P-E-G --
` 2 in the system described by Imai?
` MR. BATTS: Objection. Form.
` THE WITNESS: Could you repeat the question?
` BY MR. STONEDALE:
` Q. Do you offer in your declaration the opinion
` that it would be obvious to include the encoder MPEG 2
` into the system described by Imai?
` A. So I'm not exactly sure what you're encompassing
` in the word "encoder," but we've just -- it seems to be,
` really, already answered.
` But, for example, when -- just looking at that
` one paragraph I just read, the sentence before says, "For
` example, Imai teaches using off-the-shelf encoders such
` as ATRAC, ATRAC 2 and MPEG audio encoders 1, 2 and 3.
` These encoders can be easily modified or replaced to
`Page 23
` include the compression algorithms of Pauls, and Imai's
` teachings are structured to support such a
` configuration."
` And then in my previous answer, I pointed out
` that Imai specifically says his system could be used for
` video. I specifically pointed out in the previous answer
` that MPEG was a standard that had been known for a decade
` to those of ordinary skill in the art before the timing
` of the filing of the Fallon patent. You've already got
` Imai using MPEG -- a portion of the MPEG standard for
` audio.
` The perhaps most well-known video compression
` standard would be, I think, obvious just in reading Imai,
` let alone in reading the combination of Pauls and Imai
` where Pauls uses MPEG. And just so it's clear, the MPEG
` standard -- the MPEG 2, for example -- there's MPEG 1 and
` MPEG 2.
` And MPEG 1, again, was developed over a number
` of years but introduced to the public in 1992; MPEG 2,
` again a number of years, but introduced to the public in
` 1994.
` MPEG 2 has three sections. There's a syntax
` section, a large document on the syntax; there's a
` section in audio, which is being referred to here; and
` there's a section on the video's compression, such as the
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` motion compensation, and so on.
` So, I mean, not only would it be completely
` obvious and natural to use MPEG just on reading Imai
` alone, certainly in combination with Pauls where Pauls
` specifically mentions MPEG as well. It would be obvious
` to employ MPEG in the system that is described by Imai.
` Q. Are there any other encoders that you offer the
` opinion that it would be obvious to include into the
` system described by Imai?
` A. So, for example -- let me take a look at my
` report. And also -- okay. Let me take a quick look at
` the report. I do recall Pauls mentioning other encoders.
` Give me one -- allow me a second here to refresh my
` memory. (Witness reviewed document.)
` So I had a chance to refresh my memory. Could
` you repeat your question?
` MR. STONEDALE: Could the court reporter please
` repeat the question?
` (Record was read back as requested.)
` THE WITNESS: So I think it would be obvious
` just reading Imai, to one of ordinary skill in the art at
` the time, to use a well-known encoding standard as to one
` of Imai's plug-ins or for one of Pauls' plug-ins.
` And in addition, Pauls specifically calls out
` not only MPEG 2 and MPEG -- I assume by "MPEG," generally
`Page 25
` he's referring to both MPEG 1 and MPEG 2 as possible
` encoders.
` He also calls out another standard of the time,
` well-known H.263, another well-known used video
` compression standard that was introduced in the 1994 time
` frame as well.
` And so the point being that when one sees a
` picture -- or a figure, like Figure 4 of Imai and, of
` course, the related Figures 5 and 16, or one sees a
` figure like Figure 3 of Pauls, which shows a figure using
` multiple video or imaging coders in addition to speech
` encoders in addition to text encoders and a selection
` mechanism for choosing between them based on data type
` and other considerations, that to one of ordinary skill
` in the art, of course this is -- yet goes along the theme
` of why it would be natural to combine the two references.
` But also looking at either reference, it would be very
` natural and obvious and normal, if you will, to be
` putting -- to be plugging in -- to be putting in for one
` of these plug-ins in either, for example, Figure 3 of
` Pauls, or in the Imai figures, a well-known video
` compression standard of the time; and well-known to one
` of ordinary skill in the art because by the time the
` Fallon patent came around, these things had been around
` for years. These were what people were using.
`7 (Pages 22 to 25)
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`Page 26
` One of ordinary skill in the art is of course
` aware of the standardization of algorithms for
` compressing common types of video, including images --
` including video and also including things like images as
` well with other standards.
` BY MR. STONEDALE:
` Q. Which encoders would it be obvious to include in
` Imai's system?
` MR. BATTS: Objection. Form.
` THE WITNESS: Could you repeat the question?
` BY MR. STONEDALE:
` Q. Which encoders would it be obvious to include in
` Imai's system?
` A. I'm not sure what you're encompassing in your
` question when you use the word "encoder" and "system."
` But we've already been talking about the -- what both
` Imai and Pauls described, a general system for selecting
` among multiple different encoders and different
` properties of speed and capabilities and choosing one,
` taking into account a data type and other considerations.
` And so it would be obvious to one of ordinary
` skill in the art to employ current at -- at the time
` current and well-known -- current and well-known --
` actually, current for a number of years prior as well.
` For example, video compression standards. Imai
`Page 27
` specifically says that his system, if you will, can be
` equally applied to video, and you also see video
` compression standards referred to as well in Pauls.
` Again, I'm not sure exactly how you're trying to
` frame the use of these methods when you use the term
` "system" and "encoder," but we certainly can go to that
` claim language itself and go to my analysis on a
` claim-by-claim basis, if that's what is the point of your
` question.
` BY MR. STONEDALE:
` Q. You seem to be telling me over and over again
` that it would be obvious for a person of ordinary skill
` in the art to include well-known algorithms or encoders
` in the system that Imai described.
` My question is about which ones a person of
` ordinary skill in the art would actually include in the
` system that would be motivated to build?
` MR. BATTS: Objection. Form.
` THE WITNESS: Could you repeat your question?
` MR. STONEDALE: If the court reporter could
` please repeat the question?
` (Record was read back as requested.)
` THE WITNESS: Your question has a number of
` parts. Let me take the different parts. First of all,
` the over and over -- the only reason I'm saying it over
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` and over is it seems like you've been ask