·1
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`·2· · · · · ·UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
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`·3· · · · · · · · ·BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND
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`·4· · · ·______________________________
`· · · · ·JUBILANT DRAXIMAGE, INC.· · · )
`·5· · · · · Petitioner· · · · · · · · ·)
`· · · · ·vs.· · · · · · · · · · · · · ·)
`·6· · · ·BRACCO DIAGNOSTICS, INC.· · · )
`· · · · · · Patent Owner· · · · · · · ·)
`·7· · · ·______________________________
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`·8
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`·9
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`10· · · · · · · IPRs 2018-01448, -01449 and -01450
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`11· · · · · ·U.S. Patent Nos. 9,229,467 and 9,229,468
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`12
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`13
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`14· · · · · · ·Deposition of Robert T. Stone, Ph.D.
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`15· · · · · · · · · · · Washington, D.C.
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`16· · · · · · · · · · · · ·May 2, 2019
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`17· · · · · · · · · · · · · 9:32 a.m.
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`18
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`19
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`20
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`21
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`22
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`23
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`24· · · ·Reported by:· Bonnie L. Russo
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`25· · · ·Job No. 269201
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`Bracco Ex. 2010
`Jubilant v. Bracco
`IPR2018-01449
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`
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`·2· · · · · ·UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
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`·3· · · · · · · · ·BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND
`
`·4· · · ·______________________________
`· · · · ·JUBILANT DRAXIMAGE, INC.· · · )
`·5· · · · · Petitioner· · · · · · · · ·)
`· · · · ·vs.· · · · · · · · · · · · · ·)
`·6· · · ·BRACCO DIAGNOSTICS, INC.· · · )
`· · · · · · Patent Owner· · · · · · · ·)
`·7· · · ·______________________________
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`·8
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`·9
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`10· · · · · · · IPRs 2018-01448, -01449 and -01450
`
`11· · · · · ·U.S. Patent Nos. 9,229,467 and 9,229,468
`
`12
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`13
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`14· · · · · · ·Deposition of Robert T. Stone, Ph.D.
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`15· · · · · · · · · · · Washington, D.C.
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`16· · · · · · · · · · · · ·May 2, 2019
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`17· · · · · · · · · · · · · 9:32 a.m.
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`18
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`19
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`20
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`21
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`22
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`23
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`24· · · ·Reported by:· Bonnie L. Russo
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`25· · · ·Job No. 269201
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`Bracco Ex. 2010
`Jubilant v. Bracco
`IPR2018-01449
`
`
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`·1· · · ·Deposition of Robert T. Stone, Ph.D. held at:
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`·2
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`·3
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`·4
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`·5· · · · · · · · · ·Baker Hostetler, LLP
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`·6· · · · · · · · · ·1050 Connecticut Avenue, N.W.
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`·7· · · · · · · · · ·Washington, D.C.
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`·8
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`20
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`21· · · ·Pursuant to Notice, when were present on behalf
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`22· · · ·of the respective parties:
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`23
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`24
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`25
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`Redacted- Attorney-Client Privilege
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`·1· · · ·APPEARANCES:
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`·2
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`·3· · · ·On behalf of the Petitioner:
`· · · · · · T. CY WALKER, ESQ.
`·4· · · · · BAKER HOSTETLER
`· · · · · · Washington Square, Suite 1100
`·5· · · · · 1050 Connecticut Avenue, N.W.
`· · · · · · Washington, D.C. 20036
`·6· · · · · 202-861-1688
`· · · · · · cwalker@bakerlaw.com
`·7
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`·8· · · ·On behalf of the Patent Owner:
`· · · · · · BARRY J. SCHINDLER, ESQ.
`·9· · · · · GREENBERG TRAURIG
`· · · · · · BARRY J. SCHINDLER, ESQ.
`10· · · · · 500 Campus Drive, Suite 400
`· · · · · · Florham Park, New Jersey 07932
`11· · · · · 973-360-7944
`· · · · · · schindler@gtlaw.com
`12· · · · · · · ·-and-
`· · · · · · HEATH J. BRIGGS, ESQ.
`13· · · · · GREENBERG TRAURIG
`· · · · · · 1200 17th Street, Suite 2400
`14· · · · · Denver, Colorado 80202
`· · · · · · 303-685-7418
`15· · · · · briggsh@gtlaw.com
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`16
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`17
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`18· · · ·Also Present:
`· · · · ·Guyan Liang, Ph.D., J.D., Bracco Diagnostics,
`19· · · ·Inc.
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`20
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`Redacted- Attorney-Client Privilege
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`·1· · · · · · · · · · · ·C O N T E N T S
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`·2· · · ·EXAMINATION OF ROBERT T. STONE, Ph.D.· · · PAGE
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`·3· · · ·BY MR. SCHINDLER· · · · · · · · · · · · · ·6
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`·4
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`·5· · · · · · · · · · · · · ·EXHIBITS
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`·6
`· · · · ·Exhibit 2004· · ·Deposition of· · · · · · ·7
`·7· · · · · · · · · · · · Robert T. Stone, Ph.D.
`· · · · · · · · · · · · · dated 10-9-18
`·8
`· · · · ·Exhibit 2005· · ·Deposition of· · · · · · ·7
`·9· · · · · · · · · · · · Robert T. Stone, Ph.D.
`· · · · · · · · · · · · · dated 10-10-18
`10
`· · · · ·Exhibit 2006· · ·Hearing Transcript· · · · 15
`11· · · · · · · · · · · · dated 4-15-19
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`12· · · ·Exhibit 2007· · ·Hearing Transcript· · · · 15
`· · · · · · · · · · · · · dated 4-16-19
`13
`· · · · ·Exhibit 2008· · ·Errata for Declaration· · 23
`14· · · · · · · · · · · · of Robert Stone
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`15· · · ·Exhibit 2009· · ·Handwritten Formula· · · ·32
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`16
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`17
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`Redacted- Attorney-Client Privilege
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`·1· · · ·PREVIOUSLY MARKED EXHIBITS:
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`·2
`· · · · ·Exhibit 1001· · ·United States
`·3· · · · · · · · · · · · Patent 9,299,468 B2
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`·4· · · ·Exhibit 1011· · ·Issue Notification
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`·5· · · ·Exhibit 1014· · ·Thesis by Ran Klein
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`·6· · · ·Exhibit 1015· · ·Declaration of
`· · · · · · · · · · · · · Robert T. Stone, Ph.D.
`·7· · · · · · · · · · · · U.S. Patent 9,299,467
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`·8· · · ·Exhibit 1015· · ·Declaration of
`· · · · · · · · · · · · · Robert T. Stone, Ph.D.
`·9· · · · · · · · · · · · U.S. Patent 9,299,468
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`10· · · ·Exhibit 1024· · ·U.S. Patent Application
`· · · · · · · · · · · · · Publication
`11· · · · · · · · · · · · US 2004/0260143 A1
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`12· · · ·Exhibit 1025· · ·U.S. Patent Application
`· · · · · · · · · · · · · Publication
`13· · · · · · · · · · · · US 2008/0177126 A1
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`14
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`15
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`16
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`17
`· · · · ·(Exhibits included with transcript.)
`18
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`Redacted- Attorney-Client Privilege
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`·1· · · · · · · · · · ·P R O C E E D I N G S
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`·2
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`·3· · · · · · · · · · ROBERT T. STONE, Ph.D.,
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`·4· · · ·was called for examination by counsel and,
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`·5· · · ·after having been duly sworn by the Notary, was
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`·6· · · ·examined and testified as follows:
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`·7· · · · · ·EXAMINATION BY COUNSEL FOR PATENT OWNER
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`·8· · · · · · · · ·BY MR. SCHINDLER:
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`·9· · · · · ·Q.· · Good morning, Dr. Stone.
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`10· · · · · ·A.· · Good morning.
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`11· · · · · ·Q.· · My name is Barry Schindler.· And I
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`12· · · ·represent Bracco Diagnostics, Inc., in a series
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`13· · · ·of IPRs.· They're actually captioned IPR
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`14· · · ·2018-01448, 01449 and 01450.
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`15· · · · · · · · ·You are -- you have -- you have
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`16· · · ·attended and also been deposed in other
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`17· · · ·depositions, correct?
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`18· · · · · ·A.· · Yes.
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`19· · · · · ·Q.· · And you know essentially the rules,
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`20· · · ·which means that I'm going to ask questions
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`21· · · ·first; you will wait until I ask my question;
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`22· · · ·you can then respond.
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`23· · · · · · · · ·Do I have that agreement?
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`24· · · · · ·A.· · Yes.
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`25· · · · · ·Q.· · And if you don't understand a
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`Redacted- Attorney-Client Privilege
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`
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`·1· · · ·question, you will ask me to please rephrase or
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`·2· · · ·whatever you don't understand.
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`·3· · · · · · · · ·Do I have that agreement?
`
`·4· · · · · ·A.· · Yes.
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`·5· · · · · ·Q.· · And is there any reason today that
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`·6· · · ·you cannot testify truthfully and honestly?
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`·7· · · · · ·A.· · No.
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`·8· · · · · ·Q.· · And as you know, you will
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`·9· · · ·affirmatively say "yes" or "no," and you will
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`10· · · ·not shake your head; is that correct?
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`11· · · · · ·A.· · That's correct.
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`12· · · · · ·Q.· · Thank you, Dr. Stone.
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`13· · · · · · · · · (Deposition Exhibit 2004 was marked
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`14· · · ·for identification.)
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`15· · · · · · · · · (Deposition Exhibit 2005 was marked
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`16· · · ·for identification.)
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`17· · · · · · · · ·BY MR. SCHINDLER:
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`18· · · · · ·Q.· · So I will show you first what we
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`19· · · ·just marked as Exhibit 2004 and 2005.· And I
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`20· · · ·will state on the record what I have just shown
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`21· · · ·you.
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`22· · · · · · · · ·So 2004 is the video deposition of
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`23· · · ·Robert Stone, Tuesday, October 9, 2018; and
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`24· · · ·2005 is the videotaped deposition of Robert
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`25· · · ·Stone on Wednesday, October 10, 2018, in the
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`Redacted- Attorney-Client Privilege
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`·1· · · ·matter of certain Strontium Rubidium
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`·2· · · ·Radioisotope Infusion Systems and Components
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`·3· · · ·Thereof, Including Generators.
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`·4· · · · · · · · ·So Dr. Stone, do you recognize
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`·5· · · ·Exhibit 2004 and 2005?
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`·6· · · · · ·A.· · Yes.
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`·7· · · · · ·Q.· · And are those transcripts of a
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`·8· · · ·deposition that was taken of you on October 9th
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`·9· · · ·for 2004 and October 10th for 2005?
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`10· · · · · ·A.· · That's what they appear to be.
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`11· · · · · ·Q.· · Okay.· After the deposition
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`12· · · ·occurred, did you at all review these
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`13· · · ·transcripts?
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`14· · · · · ·A.· · I did some review of these
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`15· · · ·transcripts, yes.
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`16· · · · · ·Q.· · Is there any part of this transcript
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`17· · · ·that you don't believe is truthful and
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`18· · · ·accurate?
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`19· · · · · ·A.· · I don't recall any such.
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`20· · · · · ·Q.· · Okay.· So sitting here today, you
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`21· · · ·have no belief that what you testified was not
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`22· · · ·truthful and accurate?
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`23· · · · · ·A.· · I'd want to review it and make sure
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`24· · · ·that it's precise.· But I don't have any
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`25· · · ·recollection of me reading anything other than
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`Redacted- Attorney-Client Privilege
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`·1· · · ·what you just stated.
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`·2· · · · · ·Q.· · That it was truthful and accurate
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`·3· · · ·when you testified at the time?
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`·4· · · · · ·A.· · To the best of my ability, it was.
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`·5· · · · · · · · ·MR. WALKER:· For the record, do you
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`·6· · · ·know if there was an errata submitted with
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`·7· · · ·this?
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`·8· · · · · · · · ·MR. SCHINDLER:· I don't.· But before
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`·9· · · ·-- so the answer is I don't know that.
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`10· · · · · · · · ·MR. WALKER:· Okay.
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`11· · · · · · · · ·MR. SCHINDLER:· During a break we
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`12· · · ·will ask that.
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`13· · · · · · · · ·BY MR. SCHINDLER:
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`14· · · · · ·Q.· · But I also want to state that this
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`15· · · ·is -- this is what is called a nonconfidential
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`16· · · ·version of the transcript.
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`17· · · · · · · · ·So if you take a look -- so let's
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`18· · · ·just go, for example, on Page 159, for example.
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`19· · · ·Let's start there.
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`20· · · · · · · · ·So you see there is a series of
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`21· · · ·blackouts?
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`22· · · · · ·A.· · Yes.
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`23· · · · · ·Q.· · So what occurred is --
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`24· · · · · · · · ·MR. SCHINDLER:· Let me go off the
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`25· · · ·record for a second.
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`Redacted- Attorney-Client Privilege
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`·1· · · · · · · · ·(A short recess was taken.)
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`·2· · · · · · · · ·BY MR. SCHINDLER:
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`·3· · · · · ·Q.· · So, Dr. Stone, what I pointed you
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`·4· · · ·to, for example, is Page 158 -- 159.
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`·5· · · · · · · · ·You see that this transcript -- and
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`·6· · · ·I understand that you -- am I correct that you
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`·7· · · ·have not seen this what's called redacted
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`·8· · · ·version before?
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`·9· · · · · ·A.· · That's correct.
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`10· · · · · ·Q.· · Okay.· And as I understand, that
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`11· · · ·this redacted version has -- what is blocked
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`12· · · ·out in black throughout is what is confidential
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`13· · · ·information of your party.
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`14· · · · · · · · ·MR. BRIGGS:· Well, it could be --
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`15· · · · · · · · ·MR. SCHINDLER:· Well, it could be
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`16· · · ·either Bracco.· So it could be confidential
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`17· · · ·information of either party.
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`18· · · · · · · · ·BY MR. SCHINDLER:
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`19· · · · · ·Q.· · So just to understand on mine, I
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`20· · · ·have what's called a prosecution bar, which
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`21· · · ·means personally I have never seen your full
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`22· · · ·transcript.· I have only seen this transcript.
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`23· · · ·So I can only represent to you what I see here.
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`24· · · · · ·A.· · I understand.
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`25· · · · · ·Q.· · And do you understand what a
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`Redacted- Attorney-Client Privilege
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`·1· · · ·prosecution bar is?
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`·2· · · · · · · · ·I can explain it to you.· Just so
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`·3· · · ·you understand --
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`·4· · · · · ·A.· · Go ahead.
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`·5· · · · · · · · ·MR. WALKER:· I don't know that it's
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`·6· · · ·relevant.
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`·7· · · · · · · · ·MR. SCHINDLER:· Well, it is because
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`·8· · · ·I want him to understand why during this
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`·9· · · ·deposition.
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`10· · · · · · · · ·BY MR. SCHINDLER:
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`11· · · · · ·Q.· · So what that means is because I
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`12· · · ·partake and I may partake in the Bracco
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`13· · · ·prosecution, I cannot see any of your party's
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`14· · · ·confidential information.
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`15· · · · · · · · ·So the only transcript I have ever
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`16· · · ·seen is the transcript I am showing you.· And
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`17· · · ·the reason I wanted to explain that to you is
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`18· · · ·there may be things you have testified that are
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`19· · · ·blacked out that have other meanings.
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`20· · · · · · · · ·I can only cross-examine you on what
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`21· · · ·I have in front of me.
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`22· · · · · · · · ·Do you understand that?
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`23· · · · · ·A.· · I understand.
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`24· · · · · ·Q.· · So again, just so the record is
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`25· · · ·clear, I want to be clear.
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`Redacted- Attorney-Client Privilege
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`·1· · · · · · · · ·So what you are holding is what I --
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`·2· · · ·what has been represented to me by my
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`·3· · · ·colleagues at my firm is that this is a
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`·4· · · ·nonconfidential version.
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`·5· · · · · ·A.· · I understand.
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`·6· · · · · ·Q.· · So what I would like you to do --
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`·7· · · ·and while -- if you -- I'd like your attorney
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`·8· · · ·to basically go on record with some of the
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`·9· · · ·either comments, objections, whatever we want
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`10· · · ·to frame that.
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`11· · · · · · · · ·But while he does that, if you could
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`12· · · ·skim this to just understand both exhibits what
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`13· · · ·was done to this.
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`14· · · · · · · · ·MR. SCHINDLER:· Counsel?
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`15· · · · · · · · ·MR. WALKER:· Yeah.· So I guess what
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`16· · · ·I would say is, again, I have concerns.· This
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`17· · · ·is the first time I have seen this.· So I don't
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`18· · · ·know whether the confidential redactions are
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`19· · · ·appropriate under the protective order. I
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`20· · · ·don't know whether the subject matter for the
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`21· · · ·bar -- prosecution bar is -- has properly been
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`22· · · ·redacted.· And I also don't know whether the
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`23· · · ·protective order in the ITC case allows for
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`24· · · ·these depositions to be used in a collateral
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`25· · · ·IPR proceeding.
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`Redacted- Attorney-Client Privilege
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`·1· · · · · · · · ·And so I will check those at the
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`·2· · · ·break.· If you intend to use this at the
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`·3· · · ·deposition, then -- before that, then I guess,
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`·4· · · ·you know, you do that at your own risk.
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`·5· · · · · · · · ·MR. SCHINDLER:· Okay.· Thank you,
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`·6· · · ·Counsel.
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`·7· · · · · · · · ·BY MR. SCHINDLER:
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`·8· · · · · ·Q.· · So have you had a chance to at least
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`·9· · · ·skim these documents?
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`10· · · · · ·A.· · I have glanced through them.
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`11· · · ·Looking at the testimony, reading it, no.
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`12· · · ·There is no way I can do that.
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`13· · · · · ·Q.· · No.· And I am not asking you to do
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`14· · · ·it.
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`15· · · · · · · · ·But again, the transcript that was a
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`16· · · ·full, complete transcript, you at one time
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`17· · · ·reviewed the full, complete transcript?
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`18· · · · · ·A.· · I did.· I recall seeing an errata
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`19· · · ·sheet.· I do not recall the contents of the
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`20· · · ·errata sheet.
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`21· · · · · ·Q.· · And during the break also we will
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`22· · · ·try to see if there is an errata sheet.
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`23· · · · · · · · ·In preparation for this deposition,
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`24· · · ·did you review what is before you as Exhibit
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`25· · · ·2004 and 2005?
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`Redacted- Attorney-Client Privilege
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`·1· · · · · ·A.· · At some point in time, yes.
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`·2· · · · · ·Q.· · Okay.· So that's within the last
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`·3· · · ·three months?
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`·4· · · · · ·A.· · Yes.
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`·5· · · · · ·Q.· · And in preparation for your
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`·6· · · ·testimony at the ITC trial, did you review what
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`·7· · · ·is shown as Deposition Exhibit 2004 and 2005?
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`·8· · · · · ·A.· · Yes.
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`·9· · · · · ·Q.· · And at that time when you reviewed
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`10· · · ·it, did you have -- did you believe that
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`11· · · ·anything you testified was not truthful and
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`12· · · ·accurate?
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`13· · · · · ·A.· · Not to my knowledge.
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`14· · · · · ·Q.· · So I -- sorry.
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`15· · · · · ·A.· · No recollection.
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`16· · · · · ·Q.· · I apologize.· There is two double
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`17· · · ·negatives.· I want to make sure that we're...
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`18· · · · · · · · ·So if the answer to the question is
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`19· · · ·did you, at the time you reviewed this
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`20· · · ·transcript -- either prior to the ITC
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`21· · · ·proceeding or prior to this deposition, did you
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`22· · · ·have any contrary view that you had testified
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`23· · · ·truthfully and accurately?
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`24· · · · · ·A.· · I don't know that I was always
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`25· · · ·precise as I would have liked to have been.
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`Redacted- Attorney-Client Privilege
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`·1· · · ·But I understood that I could not change
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`·2· · · ·anything on here of substance.· So I didn't
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`·3· · · ·change anything.· But I can't recall anything
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`·4· · · ·specific.
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`·5· · · · · ·Q.· · But you believe you testified
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`·6· · · ·truthfully and accurately?
`
`·7· · · · · ·A.· · To the best of my knowledge at the
`
`·8· · · ·time, yes.
`
`·9· · · · · · · · ·MR. SCHINDLER:· I'm going to also
`
`10· · · ·show you what has been marked as exhibits 2006
`
`11· · · ·and 2007.
`
`12· · · · · · · · ·(Deposition Exhibit 2006 was marked
`
`13· · · ·for identification.)
`
`14· · · · · · · · ·(Deposition Exhibit 2007 was marked
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`15· · · ·for identification.)
`
`16· · · · · · · · ·MR. SCHINDLER:· Let me just first
`
`17· · · ·identify for the record.
`
`18· · · · · · · · ·2006 is a transcript of an April 15,
`
`19· · · ·2019 hearing in the case Certain Strontium
`
`20· · · ·Rubidium Radioisotope Infusion Systems and
`
`21· · · ·Components Thereof, Including Generators.
`
`22· · · · · · · · ·And 2007 is an April 16 transcript
`
`23· · · ·that is titled Certain Strontium Rubidium
`
`24· · · ·Radioisotope Infusion Systems and Components
`
`25· · · ·Thereof, Including Generators.
`
`
`
`
`Redacted- Attorney-Client Privilege
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`
`
`·1· · · · · · · · ·And I will also represent that these
`
`·2· · · ·are transcripts that have been heavily
`
`·3· · · ·redacted.· And again, I have only seen the
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`·4· · · ·redacted version.
`
`·5· · · · · · · · ·BY MR. SCHINDLER:
`
`·6· · · · · ·Q.· · If you could take a look at those
`
`·7· · · ·two exhibits.
`
`·8· · · · · · · · ·Dr. Stone, what I want to actually
`
`·9· · · ·direct you to is pages 581 through 871.· 581 to
`
`10· · · ·871.
`
`11· · · · · · · · ·MR. WALKER:· Which exhibit?
`
`12· · · · · · · · ·MR. SCHINDLER:· So that is actually
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`13· · · ·Exhibit 2006 through 2007, starting at Page
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`14· · · ·581.
`
`15· · · · · · · · ·BY MR. SCHINDLER:
`
`16· · · · · ·Q.· · So I would like you just to review
`
`17· · · ·that through 871.
`
`18· · · · · · · · ·MR. WALKER:· 300 pages you want him
`
`19· · · ·to read?
`
`20· · · · · · · · ·MR. SCHINDLER:· Yeah.· Just quickly.
`
`21· · · ·Just -- yeah.· I will ask him questions. I
`
`22· · · ·just want him to just understand that --
`
`23· · · · · · · · ·MR. WALKER:· Just for the record,
`
`24· · · ·this is 300 pages of testimony.
`
`25· · · · · · · · ·MR. SCHINDLER:· Yes.· I understand
`
`
`
`
`Redacted- Attorney-Client Privilege
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`
`
`·1· · · ·that.
`
`·2· · · · · · · · ·MR. WALKER:· Okay.· And you want him
`
`·3· · · ·to review it.
`
`·4· · · · · · · · ·MR. SCHINDLER:· I want him to take
`
`·5· · · ·whatever time he needs just to take time --
`
`·6· · · ·I'll ask him a question, and then he can review
`
`·7· · · ·it after the question again.
`
`·8· · · · · · · · ·BY MR. SCHINDLER:
`
`·9· · · · · ·Q.· · So to simplify this, if you would go
`
`10· · · ·to Page 581.· And that is Exhibit 2007 -- 2006.
`
`11· · · ·Sorry.
`
`12· · · · · · · · ·Are you on Page 581?
`
`13· · · · · ·A.· · I am.
`
`14· · · · · ·Q.· · And do you see at Line 14, I'm going
`
`15· · · ·to start:· "Robert Thomas Stone was called as a
`
`16· · · ·witness and having been duly sworn, was
`
`17· · · ·examined and testified as follows"?
`
`18· · · · · · · · ·Do you see that?
`
`19· · · · · ·A.· · Yes.
`
`20· · · · · ·Q.· · And then there is a testimony
`
`21· · · ·starting off at Line 20, for example:· "Good
`
`22· · · ·afternoon, Dr. Stone.· Would you introduce
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`23· · · ·yourself to the court, give them your name, and
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`24· · · ·tell them where you work."
`
`25· · · · · · · · ·Answer:· "My name is Robert Thomas
`
`
`
`
`Redacted- Attorney-Client Privilege
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`·1· · · ·Stone.· I am CEO of a company called Medical
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`·2· · · ·Design Solutions, Incorporated."
`
`·3· · · · · · · · ·Do you see that?
`
`·4· · · · · ·A.· · Yes.
`
`·5· · · · · ·Q.· · Are you the same Robert Stone
`
`·6· · · ·testifying on Page 581?
`
`·7· · · · · ·A.· · Yes.
`
`·8· · · · · ·Q.· · Do you recall testifying on April 15
`
`·9· · · ·before the ITC?
`
`10· · · · · ·A.· · Yes.
`
`11· · · · · ·Q.· · And do you believe that Page 581 is
`
`12· · · ·the first page of the transcript where you
`
`13· · · ·began your testimony in the ITC?
`
`14· · · · · ·A.· · That is certainly what it appears to
`
`15· · · ·be.
`
`16· · · · · ·Q.· · And you have no question that that
`
`17· · · ·appears to be right?
`
`18· · · · · ·A.· · That's correct.
`
`19· · · · · ·Q.· · Then if you would then go all the
`
`20· · · ·way to Page 871, Exhibit 2007.
`
`21· · · · · · · · ·Are you on Page 871?
`
`22· · · · · ·A.· · Yes.
`
`23· · · · · ·Q.· · So did there come a time during the
`
`24· · · ·ITC proceeding where you finished your
`
`25· · · ·testimony?
`
`
`
`
`Redacted- Attorney-Client Privilege
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`·1· · · · · ·A.· · Yes.
`
`·2· · · · · ·Q.· · And did you finish your testimony on
`
`·3· · · ·April 16?
`
`·4· · · · · ·A.· · Yes.
`
`·5· · · · · ·Q.· · And is 871 at Line 7 when you
`
`·6· · · ·completed your testimony at the ITC?
`
`·7· · · · · ·A.· · That's what it appears to be.
`
`·8· · · · · ·Q.· · You have no reason to doubt that?
`
`·9· · · · · ·A.· · No.
`
`10· · · · · ·Q.· · After you testified at the ITC, did
`
`11· · · ·you have -- at any time did you review your
`
`12· · · ·transcript at the ITC?
`
`13· · · · · · · · ·That's exhibits 2006 and 2007.
`
`14· · · · · ·A.· · No, I don't believe so.
`
`15· · · · · ·Q.· · Okay.· So in preparation for this
`
`16· · · ·deposition, did you review either 2006 or 2007,
`
`17· · · ·the transcripts?
`
`18· · · · · ·A.· · These two pages -- or these two
`
`19· · · ·documents?
`
`20· · · · · ·Q.· · Yes.
`
`21· · · · · · · · ·So the total pages between 581 to
`
`22· · · ·871, did you review any of those pages of the
`
`23· · · ·transcript?
`
`24· · · · · ·A.· · I don't recall any such review.
`
`25· · · · · ·Q.· · In preparation for this deposition,
`
`
`
`
`Redacted- Attorney-Client Privilege
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`
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`·1· · · ·did you have general discussions with your
`
`·2· · · ·counsel regarding this testimony at the ITC?
`
`·3· · · · · · · · ·Just answer that "yes" or "no."
`
`·4· · · · · ·A.· · I'm trying to -- I'm considering and
`
`·5· · · ·trying to recall.
`
`·6· · · · · · · · ·MR. WALKER:· And you can answer that
`
`·7· · · ·however you want.
`
`·8· · · · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· Right.
`
`·9· · · · · · · · ·I think we had some comments about
`
`10· · · ·the trial.· I don't recall anything specific
`
`11· · · ·with regard to my testimony.
`
`12· · · · · · · · ·BY MR. SCHINDLER:
`
`13· · · · · ·Q.· · Okay.· Thank you.
`
`14· · · · · · · · ·I would like you to turn to page --
`
`15· · · ·so we're going to go back now.· So you can take
`
`16· · · ·the ITC transcripts, and you can put them aside
`
`17· · · ·right now.
`
`18· · · · · · · · ·And I would like you to go to
`
`19· · · ·Exhibit 2004.· And specifically I would like
`
`20· · · ·you to read on pages -- Page 15 -- what I will
`
`21· · · ·direct you to is line -- Page 15, lines 12
`
`22· · · ·through 21.· But by all means, if you need
`
`23· · · ·context, read whatever else you need to read.
`
`24· · · · · ·A.· · I'm assuming you're talking about
`
`25· · · ·Page 15 of this small portion here?
`
`
`
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`Redacted- Attorney-Client Privilege
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`·1· · · · · ·Q.· · Yes.· So that's clear.· Yes.· That's
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`·2· · · ·a great question.· So when I refer to page, I
`
`·3· · · ·will refer to the page number that's in this
`
`·4· · · ·small corner of that page.
`
`·5· · · · · ·A.· · Thank you.
`
`·6· · · · · · · · ·Yes.· I have read it.
`
`·7· · · · · ·Q.· · Okay.· Do you have any belief
`
`·8· · · ·that -- that what you testified at the time --
`
`·9· · · ·and you said earlier you have been deposed
`
`10· · · ·roughly 15 to 20 times, and you have also
`
`11· · · ·testified before the court or the ITC or the
`
`12· · · ·other tribunals, that was -- that -- that was
`
`13· · · ·the question.· Sorry.
`
`14· · · · · · · · ·So question was:· "You said earlier
`
`15· · · ·you have been deposed roughly 15 to 20 times.
`
`16· · · · · · · · ·Have you also testified before court
`
`17· · · ·or the ITC or other tribunal like that?"
`
`18· · · · · · · · ·Answer:· "Yes."
`
`19· · · · · · · · ·"How many times?"
`
`20· · · · · · · · ·"I think four times I've testified
`
`21· · · ·before a court or tribunal."
`
`22· · · · · · · · ·"Okay.· Were those in patent cases?"
`
`23· · · · · · · · ·Answer:· "Yes."
`
`24· · · · · · · · ·Do you believe that statement was
`
`25· · · ·accurate?
`
`
`
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`Redacted- Attorney-Client Privilege
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`·1· · · · · ·A.· · Yes.
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`·2· · · · · ·Q.· · So, Dr. Stone, in this case you --
`
`·3· · · ·and I mean the case of 01448, 449 and 450 --
`
`·4· · · ·you submitted declarations in those cases,
`
`·5· · · ·correct?
`
`·6· · · · · ·A.· · Yes.
`
`·7· · · · · ·Q.· · Okay.· I'm going to show you your
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`·8· · · ·declaration that has been previously marked as
`
`·9· · · ·Jubilant Exhibit 1015.
`
`10· · · · · · · · ·And I would like to have you take a
`
`11· · · ·look at this exhibit and confirm for me that
`
`12· · · ·that is a declaration that you submitted in the
`
`13· · · ·case captioned 01448 and 01450.
`
`14· · · · · ·A.· · Yes.
`
`15· · · · · ·Q.· · So if you could turn to Paragraph
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`16· · · ·52.
`
`17· · · · · ·A.· · May I submit something?· I have some
`
`18· · · ·errata.
`
`19· · · · · ·Q.· · Absolutely.
`
`20· · · · · · · · ·So just generally what is this
`
`21· · · ·document you have handed me?
`
`22· · · · · ·A.· · Sorry.· This is some errata that I
`
`23· · · ·developed as I reviewed these two declarations
`
`24· · · ·that correct some mistakes.· There were some
`
`25· · · ·spelling mistakes.· There were some incorrect
`
`
`
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`Redacted- Attorney-Client Privilege
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`
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`·1· · · ·headings.· And there was an incorrect
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`·2· · · ·copy-and-paste with regard to information.
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`·3· · · · · · · · ·There is no change in my opinions at
`
`·4· · · ·all, just correcting so it's clear what was
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`·5· · · ·being opined on.
`
`·6· · · · · · · · ·MR. SCHINDLER:· So let's go off the
`
`·7· · · ·record a second.
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`·8· · · · · · · · ·(Deposition Exhibit 2008 was marked
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`·9· · · ·for identification.)
`
`10· · · · · · · · ·(Discussion off the record.)
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`11· · · · · · · · ·BY MR. SCHINDLER:
`
`12· · · · · ·Q.· · So, Dr. Stone, we have marked as
`
`13· · · ·Exhibit 2008 a one-page errata sheet that has
`
`14· · · ·nine items to it; is that correct?
`
`15· · · · · ·A.· · Yes.
`
`16· · · · · · · · ·MR. SCHINDLER:· Okay.· So I would
`
`17· · · ·like to take a short break and talk to my
`
`18· · · ·counsel about this and what this says.· And
`
`19· · · ·then -- you know, let's say 15 minutes.
`
`20· · · · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· That's fine.
`
`21· · · · · · · · ·MR. SCHINDLER:· Thank you.· So give
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`22· · · ·us 15 minutes to go over this.
`
`23· · · · · · · · ·(A short recess was taken.)
`
`24· · · · · · · · ·BY MR. SCHINDLER:
`
`25· · · · · ·Q.· · So, Dr. Stone, we went off the
`
`
`
`
`Redacted- Attorney-Client Privilege
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`
`
`·1· · · ·record just to review your errata sheet, which
`
`·2· · · ·is marked 2008.· And we just have a couple of
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`·3· · · ·questions that we think there actually may
`
`·4· · · ·be -- corrections need to be made on the errata
`
`·5· · · ·sheet.
`
`·6· · · · · · · · ·So if you would first go to Item No.
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`·7· · · ·3.· And could you look at what you are citing
`
`·8· · · ·as 166, Paragraph 166.· Because it -- again, we
`
`·9· · · ·may be missing something.
`
`10· · · · · ·A.· · Hang on just one moment, please.
`
`11· · · · · · · · ·Do you have the other -- that may be
`
`12· · · ·a transcription error.
`
`13· · · · · · · · ·MR. WALKER:· So an errata for the
`
`14· · · ·errata.
`
`15· · · · · · · · ·MR. BRIGGS:· So this is it, 467.
`
`16· · · ·Same exhibit number, different IPR?
`
`17· · · · · · · · ·MR. SCHINDLER:· Yeah.
`
`18· · · · · · · · ·BY MR. SCHINDLER:
`
`19· · · · · ·Q.· · So you're being handed what's now
`
`20· · · ·Exhibit No. -- what's the exhibit, Dr. Stone?
`
`21· · · · · ·A.· · This is --
`
`22· · · · · ·Q.· · Exhibit 1015 but only in the -- in
`
`23· · · ·the IPR --
`
`24· · · · · · · · ·MR. BRIGGS:· Yeah.· 01449.
`
`25· · · · · · · · ·BY MR. SCHINDLER:
`
`
`
`
`Redacted- Attorney-Client Privilege
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`
`
`·1· · · · · ·Q.· · So if you could look at that and
`
`·2· · · ·tell us where on Item 3 -- what paragraph
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`·3· · · ·you're referring to in the errata sheet of
`
`·4· · · ·2008.
`
`·5· · · · · · · · ·And if you can't do it now, when we
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`·6· · · ·take a break you can help us on that one.
`
`·7· · · · · ·A.· · So we're referring to claim --
`
`·8· · · ·you're saying Item 3.
`
`·9· · · · · ·Q.· · Yes.· It cites Paragraph 166.
`
`10· · · · · ·A.· · It refers to Line 20.· So let me
`
`11· · · ·take a...
`
`12· · · · · ·Q.· · So what I would suggest during a
`
`13· · · ·break, Doctor, is you --
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`14· · · · · ·A.· · Let me --
`
`15· · · · · ·Q.· · -- take a look --
`
`16· · · · · ·A.· · Go with that.
`
`17· · · · · ·Q.· · I will have that same question on
`
`18· · · ·Item 6.· If you look at Item 6 on your errata
`
`19· · · ·sheet, which is 2008.· This is a different
`
`20· · · ·question.
`
`21· · · · · · · · ·So if you go --
`
`22· · · · · ·A.· · Right.
`
`23· · · · · ·Q.· · -- go to Paragraph 266 -- so we
`
`24· · · ·follow my -- so are you on Paragraph 266,
`
`25· · · ·correct, of Exhibit -- yeah -- 1015 of 0 --
`
`
`
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`Redacted- Attorney-Client Privilege
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`·1· · · · · ·A.· · Oh, yes.
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`·2· · · · · ·Q.· · Okay.· Wait.· Hold on.· 266.
`
`·3· · · · · · · · ·Read -- see that Paragraph 266?
`
`·4· · · · · · · · ·In that paragraph, it has in the
`
`·5· · · ·second line containing "patent, dosing."· And
`
`·6· · · ·as I see in your errata sheet, you want to
`
`·7· · · ·change that to "patient dosing."
`
`·8· · · · · · · · ·Are you removing the comma also?
`
`·9· · · · · ·A.· · Yes.
`
`10· · · · · ·Q.· · Okay.· So it should now read
`
`11· · · ·"containing patient dosing" comma.
`
`12· · · · · ·A.· · With or without the comma.· I don't
`
`13· · · ·care.· There are people --
`
`14· · · · · ·Q.· · No, no.· But -- no.
`
`15· · · · · ·A.· · Yes.
`
`16· · · · · ·Q.· · This is your declaration, so please
`
`17· · · ·--
`
`18· · · · · ·A.· · Very well.
`
`19· · · · · ·Q.· · I want to get what you believe is
`
`20· · · ·correct.
`
`21· · · · · ·A.· · I would not put a comma at that --
`
`22· · · ·at that location.
`
`23· · · · · ·Q.· · Perfect.· So it's "patient dosing."
`
`24· · · · · ·A.· · Yes.
`
`25· · · · · ·Q.· · So can you just take on yours 6, and
`
`
`
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`Redacted- Attorney-Client Privilege
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`·1· · · ·where it says -- that's Exhibit 2008.· And
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`·2· · · ·where it says reference to "patent dosing" put
`
`·3· · · ·a "patent, dosing"?
`
`·4· · · · · ·A.· · Yes.
`
`·5· · · · · ·Q.· · Good.· Thank you very much.
`
`·6· · · · · · · · ·And then the last one we have is
`
`·7· · · ·Item 7.· We are also having a difficult time
`
`·8· · · ·finding this paragraph in Paragraph 149.· So if
`
`·9· · · ·you could take a look at that.
`
`10· · · · · · · · ·If you can't easily find it now, as
`
`11· · · ·I said, if you go off, when you come back you
`
`12· · · ·can tell us what you meant.
`
`13· · · · · ·A.· · All right.· Let's give me a chance
`
`14· · · ·to find that.
`
`15· · · · · ·Q.· · Absolutely.· Perfect.· Thank you
`
`16· · · ·very much.
`
`17· · · · · · · · ·(Discussion held off the
`
`18· · · ·stenographic record.)
`
`19· · · · · · · · ·BY MR. SCHINDLER:
`
`20· · · · · ·Q.· · So now if you would turn to
`
`21· · · ·Paragraph 52 of -- and I will be staying in
`
`22· · · ·01448450 declaration.· So if you can put the
`
`23· · · ·other one aside.
`
`24· · · · · ·A.· · Okay.
`
`25· · · · · ·Q.· · And if you go to Paragraph 52.· If
`
`
`
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`Redacted- Attorney-Client Privilege
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`·1· · · ·you'd read Paragraph 52 to yourself.· And
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`·2· · · ·again, if you need to read the whole section,
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`·3· · · ·please do.· Because I'm going to have questions
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`·4· · · ·about Paragraph 52.
`
`·5· · · · · ·A.· · All right.
`
`·6· · · · · ·Q.· · You have read that?
`
`·7· · · · · ·A.· · Yes.
`
`·8· · · · · ·Q.· · Okay.· So if you look at the bullet
`
`·9· · · ·point -- the third bullet point on Page 24,
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`10· · · ·which is Paragraph 52 -- and I will read it.
`
`11· · · · · · · · ·It says:· Claims 1-2, 4, 6-7, 9-17,
`
`12· · · ·19, 24-25, and 28 are obvious over Klein,
`
`13· · · ·Reilly (Exhibit 1024), and Tate, (Exhibit
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`14· · · ·1025)."
`
`15· · · · · · · · ·You see that?
`
`16· · · · · ·A.· · I see that.
`
`17· · · · · ·Q.· · So my question is the sentence
`
`18· · · ·structure of this and specifically the -- is it
`
`19· · · ·correct that Klein is your primary reference
`
`20· · · ·when you're making the obviousness argument in
`
`21· · · ·that bullet point?
`
`22· · · · · ·A.· · I believe we are -- in that third
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`23· · · ·bullet point, we are modifying Klein by Reilly
`
`24· · · ·and Tate.
`
`25· · · · · ·Q.· · Okay.· And have you ever heard the
`
`
`
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`Redacted- Attorney-Client Privilege
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`·1· · · ·term a primary reference versus a secondary
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`·2· · · ·reference?
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`·3· · · · · ·A.· · I have not analyzed or considered
`
`·4· · · ·that.
`
`·5· · · · · ·Q.· · But have you heard that term before?
`
`·6· · · · · ·A.· · I have heard the term used once
`
`·7· · · ·before, yes -- once or twice.
`
`·8· · · · · ·Q.· · And do you understand on obviousness
`
`·9· · · ·many times a -- the reference that you're
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`10· · · ·relying on to then modify is called a primary
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`11· · · ·reference?
`
`12· · · · · ·A.· · I hadn't looked into it to find if
`
`13· · · ·that was -- what it was meant or not.· I simply
`
`14· · · ·used the references as they were there. I
`
`15· · · ·believe that Klein -- if you're referring to
`
`16· · · ·that as the primary one, that is fine.· I don't
`
`17· · · ·have a legal opinion as to what is a primary
`
`18· · · ·reference.
`
`19· · · · · ·Q.· · But am I correct that you are taking
`
`20· · · ·Klein and modifying it with Reilly and Tate?
`
`21· · · · · ·A.· · That would be a good -- that's
`
`22· · · ·correct.
`
`23· · · · · ·Q.· · Now, so when you say modifying with
`
`24· · · ·Reilly and Tate, are you taking parts of Reilly
`
`25· · · ·and putting in Klein, and are you taking parts
`
`
`
`
`Redacted- Attorney-Client Privilege
`
`
`
`·1· · · ·of Tate and putting it in Klein?
`
`·2· · · · · · · · ·MR. WALKER:· Objection.· Vague.
`
`·3· · · · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· I'm not saying putting
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`·4· · · ·it in.· I am saying it would be obvious to
`
`·5· · · ·combine.
`
`·6· · · · · · · · ·BY MR. SCHINDLER:
`
`·7· · · · · ·Q.· · Okay.· So if you would turn to --
`
`·8· · · ·keeping -- keeping a hand on Paragraph 52.· And
`
`·9· · · ·just turn to Paragraph 318.· And read Paragraph
`
`10· · · ·
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