JENNIFER ROCK
`MYLAN PHARMACEUTICALS vs BIOGEN MA
`
`May 02, 2019
`1
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`UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
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`BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
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`MYLAN PHARMACEUTICALS INC-,
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`Petitioner,
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`V.
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`BIOGEN MA INC.,
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`Patent Owner-
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`IPR2018—01403
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`Patent No. 8,399,514
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`PATENT OWNER’S NOTICE OF DEPOSITION OF
`
`JENNIFER ROCK
`
`Taken on May 2, 2019
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`Reported by Jonna J. Schrupp
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`Biogen Exhibit 2065
`Mylan v. Biogen
`IPR 2018—01403
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`a ESQUIRE
`J
`DEPOSITION SOLUTIONS
`Page 1 of 43
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`800.211-DEPO (3376)
`EsqlJi’eSOIUfions.com
`
`
`MYLAN PHARMACEUTICALS vs BIOGEN MA
`
`May 02, 2019
`1
`
`UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`
`BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`MYLAN PHARMACEUTICALS INC-,
`
`Petitioner,
`
`V.
`
`BIOGEN MA INC.,
`
`Patent Owner-
`
`IPR2018—01403
`
`Patent No. 8,399,514
`
`PATENT OWNER’S NOTICE OF DEPOSITION OF
`
`JENNIFER ROCK
`
`Taken on May 2, 2019
`
`Reported by Jonna J. Schrupp
`
`Biogen Exhibit 2065
`Mylan v. Biogen
`IPR 2018—01403
`
`
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`1 2 3 4 5
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`6
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`2 5
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`a ESQUIRE
`J
`DEPOSITION SOLUTIONS
`Page 1 of 43
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`800.211-DEPO (3376)
`EsqlJi’eSOIUfions.com
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`1 DEPOSITION OF JENNIFER ROCK, taken
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`2 pursuant to Notice and Agreement under the Rules of
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`3 Civil Procedure for the District Courts of
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`4 Minnesota, and taken at Thomson Reuters, 610
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`5 Opperman Drive, Eagan, Minnesota, and taken on the
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`6 2nd day of May, 2019, before Jonna Schrupp, a Notary
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`7 Public in and for the County of Hennepin, State of
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`8 Minnesota, commencing at 3:00 p.m.
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`9
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`10 APPEARANCES
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`11
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`12 Mark J. Feldstein and Michael R. Galgano,
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`13 Attorneys at Law, FINNEGAN, HENDERSON, FARABOW,
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`14 GARRETT & DUNNER, LLP, 901 New York Avenue, NW,
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`15 Washington, DC 20001-4413, appeared on behalf of the
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`16 Patent Owner.
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`17 Emily J. Greb, Attorney at Law, PERKINS
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`18 COIE, 33 East Main Street, Suite 201, Madison,
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`19 Wisconsin 53703, appeared on behalf of the
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`20 Petitioner.
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`21 Susan E. Ellingstad, Attorney at Law,
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`22 LOCKRIDGE GRINDAL NAUEN, PLLP, 100 Washington Avenue
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`23 South, Suite 200, Minneapolis, Minnesota 55401,
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`24 appeared on behalf of Jennifer Rock.
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`25
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`Page 2 of 43
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`1 I N D E X
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` EXAMINATION OF WITNESS: PAGE
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` Mr. Feldstein 4, 38
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`2 3
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`4 5
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`6 Ms. Greb 36
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` OBJECTION BY:
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`7 8
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`9
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`10 Ms. Greb 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 13,
` 14, 15, 16, 17, 18,
`11 19, 20, 21, 22, 23,
` 24, 25, 26, 27, 31,
`12 32, 33, 34
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`13 Mr. Feldstein 37
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`14
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`15 DEPOSITION EXHIBITS
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`16
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`17 Exhibit 2057, marked 29
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`18
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`19
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`20
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`Page 3 of 43
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`1 P R O C E E D I N G S
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` JENNIFER ROCK,
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`2 3
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`4 after having been first duly sworn, was examined and
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`5 testified as follows:
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`6 EXAMINATION
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`7 BY MR. FELDSTEIN:
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`8 Q Good afternoon, Ms. Rock. How are you?
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`9 A Good. How are you?
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`10 Q Good. As I mentioned, I'm Mark Feldstein, I'm from
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`11 Finnegan and Henderson representing the patent oWner
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`12 in this case, Biogen.
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`13 A Okay.
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`14 Q I just want to give you a couple documents so that
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`15 you have them. I'm going to give you things, and
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`16 they're all marked with exhibit numbers, so I don't
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`17 know if you've seen them like this. This is Exhibit
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`18 1055, exhibit 1005, and then Exhibit 1016 and
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`19 lastly, for now, Exhibit 1026. I don't have any
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`20 immediate questions about 1005, 1016, 1026, I just
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`21 wanted you to have them.
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`22 A Okay.
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`23 Q Just as background, Ms. Rock, have you been deposed
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`24 before?
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`25 A No, I have not.
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`Page 4 of 43
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`1 Q Have you prepared declarations similar to Exhibit
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`2 1055 before?
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`3 A Yes.
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`4 Q For roughly how many times?
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`5 A I can say two other times besides this.
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`6 Q About when were those?
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`7 A Within the last three years. I don't have the exact
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`8 dates.
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`9 Q Can you tell me, Ms. Rock, what you did, if
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`10 anything, to prepare for your deposition today?
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`11 A I met with legal counsel and basically had a look at
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`12 these documents.
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`13 Q You met with which legal counsel?
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`14 A Both.
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`15 Q And did you have discussions with Ms. Greb here,
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`16 plaintiff's counsel?
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`17 A Yes.
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`18 Q What discussions did you have with Ms. Greb in
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`19 preparation for your deposition?
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`20 A Just to look over this document, that's about it.
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`21 Prep me for any questions that you may ask.
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`22 Q What kind of questions were suggested?
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`23 MS. GREB: I would just remind the witness
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`24 not to reveal the contents of any attorney/client
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`25 privileged information that may have been discussed
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`Page 5 of 43
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`1 during her meeting with her counsel.
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`2 BY MR. FELDSTEIN, CONTINUING:
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`3 Q Maybe I should back up a step. Is Ms. Ellingstad
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`4 your attorney here?
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`5 A Yes.
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`6 Q Is Ms. Greb your attorney here?
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`7 A No.
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`8 Q So what discussions did you have with Ms. Greb
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`9 regarding -- in preparation?
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`10 A What discussions, just about the documents
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`11 themselves and what my role is here today.
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`12 Q And what were you told about your role?
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`13 A What was I told?
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`14 Q Yes.
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`15 A I wasn't told anything -- well, I just knew I was
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`16 talking about these documents. The role was my role
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`17 in the company as she had asked, and we had talked
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`18 about what my history was and my role.
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`19 Q Did you discuss with Ms. Greb the substance of your
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`20 declaration?
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`21 MS. GREB: Object to form.
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`22 A Did I -- can you repeat that.
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`23 BY MR. FELDSTEIN, CONTINUING:
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`24 Q Sure. Did you discuss the substance of your
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`25 declaration with Ms. Greb in preparation for your
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`Page 6 of 43
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`1 deposition today?
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`2 MS. GREB: Object to form.
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`3 BY MR. FELDSTEIN, CONTINUING:
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`4 Q You can answer.
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`5 A Yes.
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`6 Q What did you discuss with Ms. Greb about the
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`7 substance of your declaration?
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`8 MS. GREB: Object to form.
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`9 A The content which I provided in the declaration, so
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`10 we just went over what I had stated in here.
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`11 BY MR. FELDSTEIN, CONTINUING:
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`12 Q Did you discuss anything beyond what's literally in
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`13 the declaration?
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`14 MS. GREB: Object to form.
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`15 A No.
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`16 BY MR. FELDSTEIN, CONTINUING:
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`17 Q Had you discussed the declaration with anyone, any
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`18 counsel from Mylan prior to completing the
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`19 declaration?
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`20 A No.
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`21 Q How do you come to be the author of the declaration,
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`22 Exhibit 1055?
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`23 A Well, I worked in news and I'm in charge of the
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`24 content. So the general counsel here at Thompson
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`25 sends me the title of documents and I provide the
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`Page 7 of 43
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`1 information about them that I can.
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`2 Q And so that's how you became involved in preparing
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`3 Exhibit 1055, the general counsel sent you the
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`4 documents listed in paragraph 6 A, B and C?
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`5 MS. GREB: Object to form.
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`6 A Yes. I just receive the title of the documents and
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`7 the date.
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`8 BY MR. FELDSTEIN, CONTINUING:
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`9 Q And what were you asked to do with the title and the
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`10 date?
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`11 A I was asked to --
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`12 MS. GREB: Object to form, and I don't
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`13 know what the general counsel's role was in any of
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`14 this, but to the extent there was any
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`15 attorney/client privileged information or the
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`16 general counsel was acting as a lawyer I would
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`17 caution you not to reveal the contents of those
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`18 conversations.
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`19 MS. ELLINGSTAD: Can I confer with my
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`20 client for just one second?
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`21 MR. FELDSTEIN: Absolutely.
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`22 (WHEREUPON, a brief recess was taken at
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`23 this time.)
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`24 BY MR. FELDSTEIN, CONTINUING:
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`25 Q So, Ms. Rock, I should say that if you have any
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`Page 8 of 43
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`1 questions about privilege you're welcome to break
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`2 any time you need to to talk to Ms. Ellingstad.
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`3 A Thank you.
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`4 MR. FELDSTEIN: Could you read back my
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`5 question, please.
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`6 (WHEREUPON, the requested portion was read
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`7 back.)
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`8 A Provide the date and time the content was made
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`9 available in Westlaw.
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`10 BY MR. FELDSTEIN, CONTINUING:
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`11 Q Were you asked to do anything else?
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`12 A No.
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`13 Q And then when were you -- when did this request come
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`14 to you regarding the documents identified in
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`15 paragraph 6 A, B and C of Exhibit 1055?
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`16 MS. GREB: Object to form.
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`17 A Originally, in the original e-signed document, in
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`18 July and then secondary in February.
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`19 BY MR. FELDSTEIN, CONTINUING:
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`20 Q July of 2018?
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`21 A Yes.
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`22 Q And the request came to you in July of 2018?
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`23 A Yes.
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`24 Q And then you completed the declaration also in July
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`25 of 2018?
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`Page 9 of 43
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`1 A Correct.
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`2 Q Who actually prepared the declaration itself, do you
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`3 know?
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`4 MS. GREB: Object to form.
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`5 A Brian Behrs.
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`6 BY MR. FELDSTEIN, CONTINUING:
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`7 Q Who is he?
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`8 A He is the licensing -- if I can get the word out --
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`9 licensing manager for news contracts.
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`10 Q Backing up a little bit to your preparation for
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`11 today, how long did you meet with Ms. Greb?
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`12 A Oh, less than 30 minutes.
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`13 Q So if we could start right at the top of Exhibit
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`14 1055, you say you've been employed by West
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`15 Publishing Corporation in the area which acquires
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`16 news articles for inclusion Westlaw for 13 years.
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`17 Can you just start -- tell us when you actually
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`18 first started at West?
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`19 A I actually started in April of 1990.
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`20 Q And 13 years ago did you take some new position?
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`21 A That's how long I had been in this role when I
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`22 originally -- yes.
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`23 Q 13 years from July 2018?
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`24 A Yes.
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`25 Q And what is your role as of roughly July 2005?
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`Page 10 of 43
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`1 A July 2005 it was actually the same, pretty much the
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`2 same role. I've just gotten added duties but I did
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`3 work with the newsroom content.
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`4 Q So what was your position in July 2005?
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`5 A It was called content analyst.
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`6 Q What did you do as content analyst?
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`7 A I maintain all of the news publications on Westlaw
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`8 and I make sure the content gets online, and then I
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`9 also work to get any new content online from
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`10 different providers and news locations.
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`11 Q And high level, I don't want to go year by year, but
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`12 high level between 1990 and 2005 roughly what were
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`13 you doing at West?
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`14 A I was maintaining internal systems.
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`15 Q Do you have some sort of computer background at all?
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`16 A No.
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`17 Q What kind of educational background do you have?
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`18 A High school, some college.
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`19 Q So maintaining means what, it's not maintaining the
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`20 computer systems it's maintaining something else?
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`21 A Maintaining internal systems with information, the
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`22 core of Westlaw.
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`23 Q The cases and such?
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`24 A Well, making sure that they're displayable and work
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`25 for the customers.
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`Page 11 of 43
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`1 Q And then around July 2005 you switched in to doing
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`2 that same sort of maintaining of content but in the
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`3 news area?
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`4 A In a more specific role.
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`5 Q Since July 2005 your position has been roughly the
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`6 same but with more responsibilities?
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`7 A Yes.
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`8 Q And was it truly July of 2005 when you started in
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`9 the area which requires news articles?
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`10 A In this role, yes, about -- it was actually probably
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`11 March of 2005.
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`12 Q In the 13 years that you've been in the -- well, let
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`13 me try and get a question. Is there a name for the
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`14 group you're in now, just so we can talk about it?
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`15 A The group I'm in?
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`16 Q Yes.
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`17 A Specialty content.
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`18 Q That's the news?
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`19 A News and public record area.
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`20 Q Has that -- has the news and public records area,
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`21 the content they control, changed over the last 13
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`22 years?
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`23 A No.
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`24 Q Have the ways in which the news and public records
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`25 maintained by your group -- strike that. Has the
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`Page 12 of 43
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`1 way in which users access information maintained by
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`2 the news and public records group changed over the
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`3 last 13 years?
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`4 A Not for news.
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`5 Q What's your current title?
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`6 A I go by content analyst, but I believe it's senior
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`7 data base specialist. The roles change quite often
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`8 here.
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`9 Q The roles or the titles?
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`10 A Well, job titles.
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`11 Q Let me skip down to paragraph 3 of Exhibit 1055.
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`12 You say West obtains news articles under license
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`13 from Business Wire for inclusion on Westlaw to
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`14 permit authorized subscribers to access these
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`15 articles. I just want to get some more information
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`16 on each of these point. The license that you
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`17 reference, do you have an understanding of the terms
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`18 of that license?
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`19 A Yes.
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`20 Q When did that license become effective, do you know?
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`21 MS. GREB: Object to form.
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`22 A I do not.
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`23 BY MR. FELDSTEIN, CONTINUING:
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`24 Q Do you know what if any limitations there are within
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`25 the license on how Westlaw can use information
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`Page 13 of 43
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`1 obtained from Business Wire?
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`2 MS. GREB: Object to form.
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`3 A I do not.
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`4 BY MR. FELDSTEIN, CONTINUING:
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`5 Q Generally speaking, what terms of license are you
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`6 aware of?
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`7 A What terms of the license? The availability that we
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`8 can provide to customers and the times -- or our
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`9 process times.
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`10 Q What do you mean with respect to availability of
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`11 customers?
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`12 A The fact that we'll get the content online as soon
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`13 as we can after we convert it.
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`14 Q That's part of the license?
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`15 A Yes.
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`16 Q What do you mean convert it?
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`17 A Convert it is where we pull out -- how do I word
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`18 this -- we pull out standardized fields and put them
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`19 in the form of a document on Westlaw.
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`20 Q I suppose I should actually back up, and this would
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`21 be good opportunity to do it, can you describe
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`22 generally what Westlaw is?
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`23 A Westlaw is a online --
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`24 MS. GREB: Object to form.
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`25 A It's a online information database.
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`Page 14 of 43
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`1 BY MR. FELDSTEIN, CONTINUING:
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`2 Q Is it a pay service?
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`3 A Yes.
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`4 Q Who primarily is it directed to?
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`5 MS. GREB: Object to form.
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`6 A It's primarily for -- originally it was for lawyers.
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`7 BY MR. FELDSTEIN, CONTINUING:
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`8 Q Have the terms of the license, to your knowledge,
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`9 changed over the last I guess 14 years now?
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`10 MS. GREB: Object to form.
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`11 A I cannot definitely answer that, but I would say --
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`12 I don't know.
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`13 BY MR. FELDSTEIN, CONTINUING:
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`14 Q Okay. Has the scope of the content you receive from
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`15 Business Wire changed over 14 years?
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`16 MS. GREB: Object to form.
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`17 A What do you mean by scope?
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`18 BY MR. FELDSTEIN, CONTINUING:
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`19 Q What do you receive from Business Wire?
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`20 A A text file of -- a text file in document form where
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`21 we pull out specific parts of the document itself.
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`22 Q Do you receive all text files that Business Wire
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`23 creates or only some subset of text files that
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`24 Business Wire creates?
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`25 A We receive them all.
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`Page 15 of 43
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`1 MS. GREB: Object to form.
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`2 BY MR. FELDSTEIN, CONTINUING:
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`3 Q Has that scope changed over time at all, to your
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`4 knowledge?
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`5 A No.
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`6 Q So you refer in paragraph 3 to authorized
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`7 subscribers and then in paragraph 6 you also refer
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`8 to authorized Westlaw subscribers. Is that the same
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`9 subscribers in both?
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`10 A No. There's different forms of subscribers.
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`11 Q So authorized subscriber in paragraph 3 is not
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`12 necessarily the same as an authorized Westlaw
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`13 subscriber in paragraph 6?
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`14 A They are not the same.
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`15 Q So what's the authorized subscriber that you
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`16 described in paragraph 3?
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`17 A That's for any user interface that we are allowed to
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`18 display the Business Wire content. Thompson Reuters
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`19 owns many user interfaces where the Business Wire is
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`20 located.
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`21 Q So is an authorized Thompson Reuter subscriber in
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`22 paragraph 3 sort of a broader category?
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`23 A Yes.
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`24 Q And then the authorized Westlaw subscribers in
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`25 paragraph 6, can you explain any further what that
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`Page 16 of 43
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`1 is or who they are?
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`2 A That's for specifically the URL that Westlaw is
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`3 dedicated to. So that's that specific group of
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`4 content that this (indicating) is, these documents
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`5 describe.
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`6 Q And the ones listed on Exhibit 1055?
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`7 A Yes.
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`8 Q So what does it mean to be an authorized Westlaw
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`9 subscriber?
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`10 MS. GREB: Object to form.
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`11 A That means you actually have a paid account with
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`12 Thompson Reuters to access the URL webside.
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`13 BY MR. FELDSTEIN, CONTINUING:
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`14 Q A paid account with Thompson Reuters to access
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`15 Westlaw?
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`16 A Yes.
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`17 Q Are you aware of the cost of obtaining a paid
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`18 account with Thompson Reuters to access Westlaw?
`
`19 A No.
`
`20 Q I take it you don't know what it is now?
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`21 A No, there's no straight line.
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`22 Q I'm just going to go over the chronology. You also
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`23 don't know what it was back around 2005?
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`24 A No.
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`25 Q So an authorized Westlaw subscriber -- well, that's
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`Page 17 of 43
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`1 fine. Let's start again. Is there just one class
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`2 of authorized Westlaw subscribers or are there
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`3 different categories of authorized Westlaw
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`4 subscribers, in terms of the information they can
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`5 access?
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`6 A There's different categories.
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`7 Q What different categories are there?
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`8 A It all depends on what the customer subscribes for.
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`9 Q What are the options or just generally to your
`
`10 knowledge what different options can a customer
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`11 subscribe to Westlaw for?
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`12 A Different content types. We have multiple types of
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`13 content, cases, codes and statutes, news, public
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`14 records, which is much stricter. That's not open to
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`15 the regular public.
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`16 Q Which is not open to the general public?
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`17 A Public records.
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`18 Q And so depending on what type of subscription you
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`19 have to Westlaw dictates what databases you can
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`20 access?
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`21 A Yes.
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`22 Q I may not be using the term totally correctly but is
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`23 pay wall a term you're familiar with?
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`24 A Yes.
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`25 MS. GREB: Object to form.
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`Page 18 of 43
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`1 BY MR. FELDSTEIN, CONTINUING:
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`2 Q Does Westlaw affect -- well, what do you understand
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`3 pay wall to be?
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`4 A A pay wall is actually a page that you have to get
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`5 through by a unique identifier or user name in order
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`6 to access where you're going on the internet.
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`7 Q Is Westlaw set up with a pay wall to prevent
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`8 unauthorized access?
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`9 MS. GREB: Object to form.
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`10 A Yes.
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`11 BY MR. FELDSTEIN, CONTINUING:
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`12 Q So you can't get to Westlaw results just from
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`13 Google, for example?
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`14 A No.
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`15 Q No, you can't?
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`16 A No, you can't.
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`17 Q Thanks. So paragraph 4 of Exhibit 1055, you say
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`18 that West includes the text of the news articles on
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`19 Westlaw as they are received from Business Wire;
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`20 right?
`
`21 A Yes.
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`22 Q You take the text and you add some additional
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`23 information on top of that; is that correct?
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`24 MS. GREB: Object to form.
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`25 A We don't add it on top of it, we add it in addition
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`Page 19 of 43
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`1 to what they give us.
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`2 BY MR. FELDSTEIN, CONTINUING:
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`3 Q Actually I'm not sure what the difference is between
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`4 on top of and in addition.
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`5 A Do you want my definition?
`
`6 Q Yes.
`
`7 A On top of would mean that we insert information
`
`8 within a document after it's received, and we add to
`
`9 it by adding extra at the end of the document for
`
`10 searching purposes.
`
`11 Q So take a look at Exhibit 1026 as an example. Can
`
`12 you identify what Westlaw added on top of what it
`
`13 obtained from Business Wire?
`
`14 MS. GREB: Object on form.
`
`15 A Anything after where it says index references.
`
`16 BY MR. FELDSTEIN, CONTINUING:
`
`17 Q And actually I want to fix that, because I used the
`
`18 wrong word. You say you added things in addition
`
`19 to; right?
`
`20 A Yes.
`
`21 Q So let me ask the question again. In using Exhibit
`
`22 2016 as an example, can you identify what
`
`23 information Westlaw added in addition to what it got
`
`24 from Business Wire?
`
`25 A The information below -- underneath index
`
`Page 20 of 43
`
`
`
`1 references.
`
`2 Q I'm sorry, what page are you looking at?
`
`3 A That would be on page two.
`
`4 Q I see. And I take it that the footer that says
`
`5 Westlaw, and it's hard to read, but 2018, that's
`
`6 something that's added in addition by Westlaw?
`
`7 A Where are you looking?
`
`8 Q It's kind of hard to see, but there's a horizontal
`
`9 bar.
`
`10 A Oh, yup. That is part of our printing -- that's
`
`11 part of our print format, it's not on the document
`
`12 itself. So when the document prints it's added as a
`
`13 footer.
`
`14 Q And the footer is live updated with prints?
`
`15 MS. GREB: Object to form.
`
`16 A Yes, as it's printed off.
`
`17 BY MR. FELDSTEIN, CONTINUING:
`
`18 Q So if we printed in 2018 Exhibit 1026 it would say
`
`19 Westlaw copyright 2018?
`
`20 A Yes.
`
`21 Q And if we printed it this year in 2019, it would say
`
`22 Westlaw copyright 2019?
`
`23 A Yes.
`
`24 Q And at the top of Exhibit 1026, are any of the text
`
`25 in the top quarter of Exhibit 1026 something that
`
`Page 21 of 43
`
`
`
`1 Westlaw added in addition to what it got from
`
`2 Business Wire?
`
`3 MS. GREB: Object to form.
`
`4 A In addition to the title itself. So the second
`
`5 line, the newsroom header, upper right hand corner,
`
`6 where it actually says Business Wire right above the
`
`7 copyright, that is an internal system that displays
`
`8 that.
`
`9 BY MR. FELDSTEIN, CONTINUING:
`
`10 Q And your understanding is that the content, other
`
`11 than the things that you've identified as being
`
`12 added in addition by Westlaw, the content of Exhibit
`
`13 1026 otherwise came from Business Wire?
`
`14 A Yes.
`
`15 Q And would that be true for Exhibit 1005 and 1016
`
`16 too? That other than the things you've identified
`
`17 all the content, to your understanding, comes from
`
`18 Business Wire?
`
`19 A Yes.
`
`20 Q So can you explain, using again Exhibit 1026 as an
`
`21 example, how you got to the document from
`
`22 information provided to you by the Thompson Reuters
`
`23 general counsel?
`
`24 MS. GREB: Objection to form, and I would
`
`25 remind the witness not to reveal any attorney/client
`
`Page 22 of 43
`
`
`
`1 privileged information and if she has any questions
`
`2 to talk to her client outside of the room.
`
`3 A Is there a way you can say that differently?
`
`4 BY MR. FELDSTEIN, CONTINUING:
`
`5 Q I want to know what steps you took to actually find
`
`6 Exhibit 1026 after having been given the title and
`
`7 date of -- well, let me back up. You were given, in
`
`8 July 2018 you were given the title and date of
`
`9 Exhibit 1026; correct?
`
`10 A Yes.
`
`11 Q And that date being April 7th, 2005; correct?
`
`12 A Yes.
`
`13 Q And the title being what begins BG-12 Psoriasis
`
`14 Study?
`
`15 A Yes.
`
`16 Q With that information, how did you go about
`
`17 obtaining Exhibit 1026?
`
`18 MS. GREB: Object to form.
`
`19 A How did I obtain it? I actually did a internal
`
`20 search in the database.
`
`21 BY MR. FELDSTEIN, CONTINUING:
`
`22 Q Can you walk us through what that internal search
`
`23 entailed?
`
`24 A I just actually typed the title and the date in the
`
`25 open box on Westlaw and retrieved the document.
`
`Page 23 of 43
`
`
`
`1 Q In to -- what is it, open box?
`
`2 A The entry field -- I don't know the word for it
`
`3 right now. The query box.
`
`4 Q Was that just the -- when I open Westlaw I get sort
`
`5 of a generic query box, is that where you typed it
`
`6 or do you have to go to some sub database to put in
`
`7 the title and date?
`
`8 MS. GREB: Object to form.
`
`9 A I have to go in to another part where it says news.
`
`10 So the exact steps would be I'd sign on to Westlaw
`
`11 and I'd click on the news header and then I'd do the
`
`12 date and title search.
`
`13 BY MR. FELDSTEIN, CONTINUING:
`
`14 Q And do you put the title in as key words or just the
`
`15 whole title with quotes or something?
`
`16 A Key words.
`
`17 Q And did you put the whole title in here to get this
`
`18 document 1026 or did you use select words from the
`
`19 title?
`
`20 MS. GREB: Object to form.
`
`21 A If you look, the BG-12 is highlighted, that's what
`
`22 was searched for.
`
`23 BY MR. FELDSTEIN, CONTINUING:
`
`24 Q And the date is not highlighted, so you didn't
`
`25 search on date?
`
`Page 24 of 43
`
`
`
`1 A Hmm-mm.
`
`2 Q So you only needed BG-12?
`
`3 A Yes.
`
`4 Q So you say you sign on to Westlaw and there's a
`
`5 query box right away; correct?
`
`6 A (Witness nods head.)
`
`7 Q Why don't you -- yes?
`
`8 A Yes.
`
`9 Q I'm sorry, the court reporter has to write that
`
`10 down. Why don't you put in BG-12 in to the query
`
`11 box that comes up on the main Westlaw page?
`
`12 MS. GREB: Object to form.
`
`13 A It's kind of a down side of Westlaw Next that news
`
`14 isn't available from the front screen.
`
`15 BY MR. FELDSTEIN, CONTINUING:
`
`16 Q So if you put BG-12 in to the main search box on
`
`17 Westlaw you would not have come up with Exhibit
`
`18 1026?
`
`19 MS. GREB: Object to form.
`
`20 A No.
`
`21 BY MR. FELDSTEIN, CONTINUING:
`
`22 Q I'm right; correct?
`
`23 A Correct.
`
`24 Q And likewise you wouldn't have come up with Exhibit
`
`25 1005; corect?
`
`Page 25 of 43
`
`
`
`1 MS. GREB: Object to form.
`
`2 A Correct.
`
`3 BY MR. FELDSTEIN, CONTINUING:
`
`4 Q And likewise you wouldn't have come up with Exhibit
`
`5 1016; correct?
`
`6 MS. GREB: Object to form.
`
`7 A Correct.
`
`8 BY MR. FELDSTEIN, CONTINUING:
`
`9 Q What is West Next?
`
`10 A Westlaw Next, it's a more updated version of
`
`11 Westlaw, where you can do searches more like Google
`
`12 than you -- prior you had to actually select a
`
`13 specific database before you did a search.
`
`14 Q When did West Next come in to play?
`
`15 MS. GREB: Object to form.
`
`16 A I don't know the exact date.
`
`17 BY MR. FELDSTEIN, CONTINUING:
`
`18 Q Roughly.
`
`19 MS. GREB: Object to form.
`
`20 A Five years.
`
`21 BY MR. FELDSTEIN, CONTINUING:
`
`22 Q So how would you have found Exhibit 1026 more than
`
`23 five years ago?
`
`24 MS. GREB: Object to form.
`
`25 A I would have gone in to either the Business Wire
`
`Page 26 of 43
`
`
`
`1 database or our news wire database or our all news
`
`2 plus database.
`
`3 BY MR. FELDSTEIN, CONTINUING:
`
`4 Q And you would have had to go to those databases
`
`5 because the main search engine on Westlaw wouldn't
`
`6 have provided Exhibit 1026; correct?
`
`7 A Correct.
`
`8 MS. GREB: Object to form.
`
`9 BY MR. FELDSTEIN, CONTINUING:
`
`10 Q I want to ask now about paragraph 5 of your
`
`11 declaration, Exhibit 1055. You say the three
`
`12 articles attached to this affidavit are accurate
`
`13 copies of the articles as they appear on Westlaw as
`
`14 of today's date. This may be a dumb question, but
`
`15 how do you know they were accurate as of the date of
`
`16 your declaration, July 23rd, 2018?
`
`17 A I have access to an internal system and for the
`
`18 specific -- for Business Wire they actually put
`
`19 extra text in if they have been edited.
`
`20 Q But did you pull the document Exhibit 1026, for
`
`21 example, on July 3rd, 2018?
`
`22 A Did I -- what do you mean by pull?
`
`23 Q Did you print Exhibit 1026 on July 3rd, 2018, to be
`
`24 able to say this is what it looks like as of today?
`
`25 A I did not print it.
`
`Page 27 of 43
`
`
`
`1 Q Do you know who printed Exhibit 1026?
`
`2 A I don't know what happened to it after I provided it
`
`3 via e-mail.
`
`4 Q When you provided it by e-mail would it have had the
`
`5 Westlaw 2018 copyright footer at the bottom?
`
`6 A Yes, because you can send it via e-mail, that's an
`
`7 option.
`
`8 Q What do you call the document once it includes that
`
`9 2018 copyright, it's not physically printed but in
`
`10 some electronic form; right?
`
`11 A Yes.
`
`12 Q Is there a name to refer to that document other than
`
`13 a printout?
`
`14 A No.
`
`15 Q It's just the e-mailed version?
`
`16 A Of the document, yeah. There's no standard term
`
`17 that we have.
`
`18 Q Okay. So the e-mail version -- you created an
`
`19 e-mail version of Exhibit 1026; correct?
`
`20 A Yes. The Westlaw system does it for -- it's an
`
`21 option on Westlaw.
`
`22 Q You directed the Westlaw --
`
`23 A To my e-mail and it was forwarded on.
`
`24 Q And did you do that on July 3rd, 2018 to be able to
`
`25 say here's what it looks like as of today?
`
`Page 28 of 43
`
`
`
`1 A Yes.
`
`2 (WHEREUPON, Rock Deposition Exhibit Number
`
`3 2057 was marked for identification.)
`
`4 BY MR. FELDSTEIN, CONTINUING:
`
`5 Q I've marked Exhibit 2057, it's a version of your
`
`6 declaration, has your signature on 2/27/2019. You
`
`7 have changed a couple things -- well, in Exhibit
`
`8 2057 you say now you've worked for Westlaw for 14
`
`9 years; correct?
`
`10 A (Witness nods head.)
`
`11 Q Yes?
`
`12 A Yes.
`
`13 Q So you've changed the declaration at least to make
`
`14 that update; correct?
`
`15 A Yes.
`
`16 Q So Exhibit 2057 and 1055 are not quite identical;
`
`17 correct?
`
`18 A Correct.
`
`19 Q Now, in paragraph 5 of Exhibit 2057 you say the
`
`20 three articles attached to this affidavit are
`
`21 accurate copies of the articles as they appear on
`
`22 Westlaw as of today's date; right?
`
`23 A Yes.
`
`24 Q And today's date is now 2/27/19; correct?
`
`25 A Yes.
`
`Page 29 of 43
`
`
`
`1 Q And did you create new e-mail versions of the
`
`2 documents in paragraph 6 A, B and C on February
`
`3 29th, 2019?
`
`4 A No.
`
`5 Q So, in fact, if you turn to page 3 of Exhibit 2057
`
`6 they still have 2018 copyright on the bottom left;
`
`7 correct?
`
`8 A (Witness nods head.)
`
`9 Q Correct?
`
`10 A Yes.
`
`11 Q So what's attached to the declaration of Exhibit
`
`12 2057 is not what you would get in 2019 if you
`
`13 created an e-mail or hard copy of the documents
`
`14 identified in 6 A, B and C?
`
`15 A Nope -- correct.
`
`16 Q In paragraph 5 -- and I'll have you turn back to
`
`17 Exhibit 1055. In Exhibit 1055, paragraph 5, you're
`
`18 referring to the documents as they appear as of,
`
`19 quote, today's date. Am I correct that you didn't
`
`20 pull archived versions of the documents as they
`
`21 would have appeared in the 2005 to 2007 range?
`
`22 A Can you repeat that.
`
`23 Q In paragraph 5 you're referring to articles as they
`
`24 appear as of today's date; correct?
`
`25 A Yes.
`
`Page 30 of 43
`
`
`
`1 Q Did you attempt to pull any archived versions of the
`
`2 documents as they apply to 6 A, B and C to see how
`
`3 they actually appeared, if at all, in the 2005 to
`
`4 2007 time frame?
`
`5 MS. GREB: Object to form.
`
`6 A No.
`
`7 BY MR. FELDSTEIN, CONTINUING:
`
`8 Q In paragraph 6 of Exhibit 1055 you say, in the
`
`9 middle of the sentence, to the best of my knowledge
`
`10 and belief, and then in the last sentence above your
`
`11 signature you say I affirm that the statements
`
`12 contained herein are known by me or believed by me
`
`13 to be true and correct; correct?
`
`14 A Yes.
`
`15 Q Which statements in Exhibit 1055 are believed to be
`
`16 true by you as opposed to known as a factual matter
`
`17 by you?
`
`18 MS. GREB: Object to form.
`
`19 A I didn't word that. The dates and times were
`
`20 provided as to the information that I have.
`
`21 BY MR. FELDSTEIN, CONTINUING:
`
`22 Q So the dates and times, which ones are you referring
`
`23 to?
`
`24 A In the documents, the three documents listed in
`
`25 number 6.
`
`Page 31 of 43
`
`
`
`1 Q The dates and times are -- you didn't have personal
`
`2 knowledge that those are the accurate dates and
`
`3 times when the documents were available, but you
`
`4 believe them to be the dates and times when the
`
`5 documents were available; correct?
`
`6 MS. GREB: Object to form, misstates
`
`7 testimo
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