`Martin C. Rinard, Ph D.
`Page 1
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`lPR2018—01334
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`Intel v. Qualcomm
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`INTEL 1022
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`UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
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`
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`BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
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`INTEL CORPORATION,
`
`Petitioner
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`v.
`
`QUALCOMM INCORPORATED,
`
`Patent Owner.
`
`Trial No.
`
`|PR2018~O1334
`
`
`
`DEPOSITION of MARTIN C. RINARD, Ph.D.
`
`August 28, 2019
`
`Boston, Massachusetts
`
`Reporter: Michael D. O'Connor, RMR, CRR, CRC
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`1 0
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`701-wa
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`\I
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`GregoryEdwards, LLC I Worldwide Court Reporting
`GregoryEdwards.com I 866—4Team GE
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`
`
`— August 28, 2019
`Martin C. Rinard, Ph.D.
`Page 2
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`Wednesday, August 28, 2019
`
`8:59 a.m.
`
`DEPOSITION of MARTIN C. RINARD,
`
`Ph D., held at Jones Day, 100 High Street,
`
`Boston, Massachusetts, pursuant to notice,
`
`before Michael D. O'Connor, Registered Merit
`
`Reporter, Certified Realtime Reporter,
`
`Certified Realtime Captioner, and Notary
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`Public in and for the Commonwealth of
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`Massachusetts.
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`
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`GregoryEdwards, LLC I Worldwide Court Reporting
`GregoryEdwards.com l 866-4Team GE
`
`
`
`— August 28, 2019
`Martin C. Rinard, Ph.D.
`Page 3
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`A P P E A R A N C E S:
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`ATTORNEYS FOR INTEL CORPORATION:
`
`WILMER CUTLER PlCKERlNG HALE AND DORR LLP
`
`1875 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW
`
`Washington, DC 20006
`
`(202) 663—6227
`
`BY:
`
`THOMAS E. ANDERSON, ESQ.
`
`tom.anderson@wilmerhale.com
`
`— and ~
`
`WILMER CUTLER PICKERING HALE AND DORR LLP
`
`950 Page Mill Road
`
`Palo Alto, California 94304
`
`(650) 858—6032
`
`BY:
`
`JOSEPH F. HAAG, ESQL
`
`Joseph.haag@wilmerhale.com
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`GregoryEdwards, LLC I Worldwide Court Reporting
`GregoryEdwards.com l 866—4Team GE
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`
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`a August 28, 2019
`Martin C. Rinard, Ph.D.
`Page 4
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`A P P E A R A N C E S (CONTINUED):
`
`ATTORNEYS FOR QUALCOMM,
`
`INC.:
`
`JONES DAY
`
`500 Grant Street, Suite 4500
`
`Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania 15219—2514
`
`(412) 391—3939
`
`BY:
`
`JOSHUA R. NIGHTINGALE, ESQ.
`
`Jrnightingale@jonesday.com
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`GregoryEdwards, LLC 1 Worldwide Court Reporting
`GregoryEdwards.com l 866—4Team GE
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`
`
`— August 28, 2019
`Martin C. Rinard, Ph D.
`
`Page 5
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`I N D E X
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`WITNESS:
`
`MARTIN C. RINARD, Ph D.
`
`EXAMINATION
`
`By Mr. Haag
`
`PAGE
`
`******
`
`PREVIOUSLY MARKED EXHIBITS
`
`DESCRIPTION
`
`.PAGE
`
`N0.
`
`INTEL
`
`Exhibit 1001
`
`U.S. Patent 8,838,949
`
`Exhibit 1009
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`U.S. Patent Application
`
`2006/0288019 A1
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`Exhibit 1010
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`U.S. Patent 7,356,680
`
`Exhibit 1012
`
`Korean translation of
`
`10
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`113
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`96
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`138
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`Kim Tae—Young reference
`
`QUALCOMM
`
`Exhibit 2007
`
`Declaration of
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`11
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`Dr. Martin Rinard
`
`******
`
`-l>0~>l\)
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`GregoryEdwards, LLC 1 Worldwide Court Reporting
`GregoryEdwards.com I 866~4Team GE
`
`
`
`— August 28, 2019
`Martin C. Rinard, Ph.D.
`Page 6
`
`P R 0 C E E D I N G S
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`MARTlN C. RINARD, Ph.D.
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`having been satisfactorily identified by the
`
`production of his driver's license, and duly
`
`sworn by the Notary Public, was examined and
`
`testified as follows:
`
`EXAMINATION
`
`BY MR. HAAG:
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`the record.
`
`Good morning.
`
`Good morning.
`
`Can you please state your name for
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Martin Rinard.
`
`And where do you live?
`
`Arlington, Massachusetts.
`
`You understand you're under oath
`
`here today,
`
`right?
`
`A.
`
`0.
`
`That’s my understanding.
`
`is there any reason you can't give
`
`08:52:45
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`08:52:45
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`08:
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`59:
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`4O
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`GregoryEdwards, LLC l Worldwide Court Reporting
`GregoryEdwards.com | 866—4Team GE
`
`
`
`— August 28, 2019
`Martin C. Rinard, Ph.D.
`Page 7
`
`O8:
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`59:
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`1O
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`truthful
`
`testimony here today?
`
`right?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`Not that i know of.
`
`You have been deposed before,
`
`Yes.
`
`How many times?
`
`I can't give you an exact number.
`
`I would say somewhere in the ballpark of
`
`between six and ten.
`
`0.
`
`Okay.
`
`So you understand I'll be
`
`asking you a series of questions here today?
`
`A.
`
`Yes.
`
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`
`
`Q.
`
`And l'd like to ask you to let me
`
`finish my questions before you answer.
`
`Can you
`
`try to do that?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`1 will
`
`try to do that.
`
`And I will
`
`likewise try to let you
`
`finish your answer before I ask my next
`
`question. Okay?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`I would appreciate that.
`
`Okay.
`
`Now, you're an expert for
`
`Qualcomm in this matter;
`
`is that right?
`
`
`
`GregoryEdwards, LLC 1 Worldwide Court Reporting
`GregoryEdwards.com l 866—4Team GE
`
`
`
`— August 28, 2019
`Martin C. Rinard, Ph.D.
`Page 8
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`09
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`:00:
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`(fl-$300
`OLOOO\1®
`
`A.
`
`I believe I was retained by
`
`Qualcomm, yes.
`
`Q.
`
`And the subject of this deposition
`
`relates, at
`
`least
`
`in part,
`
`to a patent that's
`
`the '949 patent, right?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`I believe that's correct.
`
`And that's a patent you’ve
`
`testified at trial before on, right?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`Yes.
`
`One trial?
`
`| believe that's true.
`
`09:
`
`OO:
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`49
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`12
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`And that was a trial
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`in San
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`Q.
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`Okay.
`
`Diego earlier this year?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Yes, that's correct.
`
`Aside from your work on the '949
`
`patent, have you ever worked for Qualcomm
`
`before?
`
`A.
`
`O.
`
`I don't believe so, no.
`
`This is the first matter you've
`
`worked for Qualcomm on,
`
`to your knowledge?
`
`A.
`
`To the best of my recollection,
`
`this is the first time l've been retained by
`
`
`
`
`
`GregoryEdwards, LLC I Worldwide Court Reporting
`GregoryEdwards.com [ 866—4Team GE
`
`
`
`— August 28, 2019
`Martin C. Rinard, Ph.D.
`Page 9
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`09:
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`01
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`:17
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`:21
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`09
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`:01
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`223'
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`01
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`:24
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`Qualcomm, certainly as an expert.
`
`I don’t
`
`believe I've been employed by them in any other
`
`matter,
`
`in any other capacity.
`
`0.
`
`Have they funded any of your
`
`research?
`
`A.
`
`I don't believe so.
`
`They may have
`
`funded research more broadly within MIT or even
`
`the lab that I’m in, but not me personally,
`
`to
`
`my knowledge.
`
`0.
`
`A.
`
`What
`
`lab are you in?
`
`Computer Science and Artificial
`
`09:
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`01
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`:43
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`12
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`01
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`:45
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`Intelligence Laboratory.
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`0.
`
`If I refer to the '949 patent,
`
`you'll know what
`
`I'm talking about, right?
`
`A.
`
`Yeah. Why don’t we —- do you want
`
`to get a copy of it_just so ~-
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`I will do that in a minute, yes.
`
`I believe we're referring to the
`
`same patent, but
`
`I
`
`think it would be good to
`
`get the number.
`
`0.
`
`I’ll do it right now.
`
`So I've
`
`handed you a document that's already been
`
`
`
`GregoryEdwards, LLC I Worldwide Court Reporting
`GregoryEdwards.com I 866—4Team GE
`
`
`
`— August 28, 2019
`Martin C. Rinard, Ph.D.
`Page 10
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`marked as Intel Exhibit 1001.
`
`It's a copy of
`
`U.S. Patent No. 8,838,949. Did I
`
`read that
`
`right?
`
`A.
`
`0.
`
`I believe so.
`
`And if I refer to Exhibit 1001 as
`
`the '949 patent, will you understand what
`
`I
`
`mean?
`
`A.
`
`0.
`
`I believe so, yes.
`
`This is the “949 patent you've
`
`worked on for this matter, right?
`
`A.
`
`Let me just take a quick look to
`
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`be sure. Without checking every page and every
`
`word,
`
`it appears to be that patent, yes.
`
`0.
`
`And you understand that Intel has
`
`filed a number of IPR petitions seeking to
`
`invalidate certain claims of the '949 patent,
`
`right?
`
`A.
`
`0.
`
`That's my understanding.
`
`And am I right you've submitted
`
`one declaration for this matter?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Yes, one declaration.
`
`Do you understand that the IPRs
`
`
`
`
`
`GregoryEdwards, LLC I Worldwide Court Reporting
`GregoryEdwards.com I 866—4Team GE
`
`
`
`— August 28, 2019
`Martin C. Rinard, Ph.D.
`Page 11
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`have been consolidated into one lPR?
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`A.
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`That's getting more into the legal
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`realm.
`
`i don't dispute that.
`
`My opinions are
`
`in my declaration.
`
`I was asked to provide
`
`technical Opinions.
`
`If you were going to
`
`represent that's true to me, I'll accept it,
`
`but
`
`l'm not going to endorse it.
`
`Q.
`
`Okay. You’ve got Exhibit 2007 in
`
`front of you, right?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Yes.
`
`And this is entitled ”Declaration
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`of Dr. Martin Rinard”?
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`A.
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`0.
`
`A.
`
`Q.
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`Rinard, yes.
`
`How do you say your name again?
`
`Rinard.
`
`I apologize if I get that a little
`
`bit mixed up.
`
`A.
`
`0.
`
`You wouldn’t be the first.
`
`l have Rinard in my mind, so i
`
`apologize about that.
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`I will answer to either one.
`
`So Exhibit 2007 is the only
`
`
`
`GregoryEdwards, LLC [ Worldwide Court Reporting
`GregoryEdwards.com l 866—4Team GE
`
`
`
`— August 28, 2019
`Martin C. Rinard, Ph.D.
`Page 12
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`declaration you‘ve submitted for this matter,
`
`right?
`
`A.
`
`Let me check. Yes,
`
`this looks
`
`like the one declaration that
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`I have submitted
`
`in this case.
`
`I haven't read every page and
`
`every word.
`
`Q.
`
`And if i refer to Exhibit 2007 as
`
`your declaration, will you understand what
`
`I
`
`mean?
`
`A.
`
`i
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`think we can agree on that
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`terminology.
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`Q.
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`And if we look at the front page,
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`do you see it says "Case IPR2018—O1334”?
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`A.
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`Q.
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`I do see that.
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`There’s a footnote there.
`
`The
`
`footnote says,
`
`”IPR2018—O1335 and |PR2018—01336
`
`has been consolidated with the instant
`
`proceeding.”
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Do you see that?
`
`I do indeed.
`
`If we
`
`look on Page 96 of your
`
`declaration,
`
`is that your signature, sir?
`
`21
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`GregoryEdwards, LLC I Worldwide Court Reporting
`GregoryEdwards.com ] 866—4Team GE
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`
`
`— August 28, 2019
`Martin C. Rinard, Ph.D.
`Page 13
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`A.
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`Q.
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`lt appears to be.
`
`And then you've got an Appendix A
`
`that starts on Page 97, right?
`
`A.
`
`Yes, Appendix A is on 97.
`
`The CV
`
`starts on Page 98.
`
`Q.
`
`So the Appendix A is your
`
`curriculum vitae?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Yes,
`
`it looks like it.
`
`And is this CV up to date?
`
`Let me take a quick look.
`
`With the exception of anything
`
`that
`
`is published since the time you submitted
`
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`
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`this?
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`A.
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`Yeah, although my copy,
`
`I
`
`think,
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`is missing a page.
`
`0.
`
`A.
`
`What page?
`
`It ends on 111.
`
`I
`
`think there
`
`should be a page after that.
`
`Q.
`
`A,
`
`My copy ends on 111 as well?
`
`Normally when I have a CV,
`
`there's
`
`additional pages after this.
`
`Q.
`
`What are on those additional
`
`
`
`GregoryEdwards, LLC I Worldwide Court Reporting
`GregoryEdwards.com l 866—4Team GE
`
`
`
`— August 28, 2019
`Martin C. Rinard, Ph.D.
`Page 14
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`pages?
`
`A.
`
`in this case,
`
`there would be some
`
`additional courses and,
`
`|
`
`think, maybe some
`
`cases that I've testified or have been retained
`
`on.
`
`|
`
`typically tend to put my
`
`legal
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`experience at the end of the CV.
`
`There may be something else there.
`
`I don't exactly remember the exact format
`
`I
`
`used for this one.
`
`0.
`
`Okay.
`
`The rest of the CV is
`
`accurate,
`
`to the best of your knowledge?
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`09
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`A.
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`I'd have to go through and take a
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`
`
`very detailed look at all of it. But just
`
`looking at it here seems to be accurate to me,
`
`again, with the exception of,
`
`I believe,
`
`some
`
`more recent publications.
`
`0.
`
`I'd like you to look at Paragraph
`
`3 of your declaration of Exhibit 2007.
`
`A.
`
`0.
`
`Paragraph 3, yes.
`
`And you list here the materials
`
`you considered for this lPR;
`
`is that right?
`
`A.
`
`Yes.
`
`
`
`GregoryEdwards, LLC I Worldwide Court Reporting
`GregoryEdwards.com l 866—4Team GE
`
`
`
`— August 28, 2019
`Martin C. Rinard, Ph D.
`
`Page 15
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`Q.
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`Did you read all of the materials
`
`you've set forth here?
`
`A.
`
`Let me take a
`
`look.
`
`I believe so,
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`with the exception I wouldn't say that I've
`
`read all of the transcripts of the trial
`
`listed
`
`here, but
`
`I have read most of the transcripts
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`of the_jury trial.
`
`I may very well have read
`
`all of those transcripts listed.
`
`0.
`
`Are you talking about the
`
`transcripts listed at the top of Page 3?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Yes.
`
`Do you think you only read the
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`portions of those transcripts that are cited in
`
`your declaration?‘
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`A.
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`I can't tell you here for sure
`
`that I've read the entire transcript of the
`
`whole trial.
`
`I've read much of the transcript,
`
`and I believe that all
`
`the transcripts that
`
`I've cited here I have read. All
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`the
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`transcripts that
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`I
`
`reference in the
`
`declaration,
`
`I've read those parts of the
`
`transcript.
`
`
`
`
`
`GregoryEdwards, LLC I Worldwide Court Reporting
`GregoryEdwards.com | 866—4Team GE
`
`
`
`— August 28, 2019
`Martin C. Rinard, Ph.D.
`Page 16
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`Q.
`
`So you mean when it says "Day 2”
`
`at the beginning of Page 3 ——
`
`A.
`
`Right,
`
`I can't tell you that I’ve
`
`read the entirety of the day 2 transcript, but
`
`l have read the parts that I've cited in the
`
`declaration.
`
`Q.
`
`So are you saying that
`
`if on day 2
`
`Dr. Lin testified and you cited Dr. Lin’s
`
`testimony, you would have read all of Dr. Lin's
`
`testimony from day 2?
`
`A.
`
`Yes.
`
`think he probably did not
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`
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`Q.
`
`I
`
`testify on day 2, but
`
`I give that as an
`
`example.
`
`A.
`
`No,
`
`l
`
`think Steve Haehnichen, fer
`
`example, may be one of the day 2 people that
`
`l
`
`reference.
`
`0.
`
`And he's one of the inventors of
`
`the '949 patent?
`
`A.
`
`He's one of the named inventors.
`
`I
`
`think he’s the fourth named inventor.
`
`Q.
`
`Is your declaration of Exhibit
`
`
`
`
`
`GregoryEdwards, LLC | Worldwide Court Reporting
`GregoryEdwards.com | 866—4Team GE
`
`
`
`— August 28, 2019
`Martin C. Rinard, Ph.D.
`Page 17
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`2007 complete,
`
`to the best of your knowledge?
`
`A.
`
`Okay.
`
`Looking at it,
`
`the first
`
`page looks right.
`
`The last page looks right.
`
`The pages that
`
`1
`
`took a look at
`
`in the middle
`
`seem to be correct.
`
`1 can't tell you whether there's
`
`potentially a missing page from some sort of
`
`clerical error. We can go through and count
`
`them all and see.
`
`Q.
`
`So after there being a missing
`
`page ——
`
`09:
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`10:
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`A.
`
`Or some other.
`
`I should let you
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`finish.
`
`Q.
`
`If we try to let each other
`
`finish,
`
`it will make it easier for everyone,
`
`including the court reporter.
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`l apologize.
`
`So absent the missing page, do you
`
`think your declaration of Exhibit 2007 contains
`
`a complete statement of your opinions for this
`
`IPR?
`
`A.
`
`The declaration that
`
`l wrote and
`
`
`
`GregoryEdwards, LLC | Worldwide Court Reporting
`GregoryEdwards.com l 866-4Team GE
`
`
`
`— August 28, 2019
`Martin C. Rinard, Ph D.
`Page 18
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`OVCN-bUJN
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`11
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`submitted in this case, does contain a complete
`
`statements of the opinions l
`
`intend to offer in
`
`this IPR.
`
`Q.
`
`You don't have any other opinions
`
`sitting here right now you intend to offer,
`
`aside from what sets forth in Exhibit 2007?
`
`A.
`
`I believe that the declaration I
`
`submitted contains all
`
`the opinions I
`
`intend to
`
`offer.
`
`0.
`
`And does your declaration also
`
`contain all of the bases for your opinions
`
`you've offered?
`
`
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`MR. NIGHTINGALE: Objection to
`
`form.
`
`A.
`
`Well, that's a more difficult
`
`question to answer, because there's a
`
`lot of
`
`things that
`
`l
`
`——
`
`like my experience in the
`
`field,
`
`i can't lay forth all
`
`the experience in
`
`my field is relevant here.
`
`l've tried to cite the specific
`
`materials and lay forth in the declaration
`
`those parts of the materials that are relevant
`
`
`
`
`
`GregoryEdwards, LLC | Worldwide Court Reporting
`GregoryEdwards com | 866—4Team GE
`
`
`
`— August 28, 2019
`Martin C. Rinard, Ph.D.
`Page 19
`
`to my opinion, but there's a
`
`lot of background
`
`that
`
`l have that I obviously can't list in
`
`something of this length.
`
`Q.
`
`But you didn’t
`
`leave out any of
`
`the bases for your opinions on purpose, right?
`
`A.
`
`That's right.
`
`l purposely tried
`
`to lay out the reasonable basis for what
`
`I’m
`
`talking about here,
`
`to the extent it's possible
`
`in this format.
`
`Q.
`
`And you don't have any intention
`
`of changing any of the opinions set forth in
`
`H H H H H H H H H
`
`09
`
`0%
`
`09
`
`09
`
`09
`
`09
`
`0%
`
`09
`
`0%
`
`fl6
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`H8
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`20
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`22
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`24
`
`25
`
`29
`
`:m
`
`:
`
`M
`
`:M
`
`:
`
`%
`
`H H
`
`0%
`
`09
`
`09
`
`1%
`
`12
`
`Exhibit 2007 at this point
`
`in time?
`
`
`
`A.
`
`0.
`
`Not sitting here today, no.
`
`When is the last time you've
`
`reviewed your declaration?
`
`A.
`
`0.
`
`declaration?
`
`Last night.
`
`Are there any errors in your
`
`A.
`
`I'm not aware of any technical
`
`errors in my declaration or any other errors
`
`like that.
`
`Q.
`
`There may be some typographical
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`GregoryEdwards, LLC I Worldwide Court Reporting
`GregoryEdwards.com I 866—4Team GE
`
`
`
`~ August 28, 2019
`Martin C. Rinard, Ph.D.
`Page 20
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`errors?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`For example, yeah.
`
`But you're not aware of any
`
`substantive errors in your declaration of
`
`Exhibit 2007?
`
`A.
`
`0.
`
`Not sitting here today, no.
`
`Are you 100 percent confident
`
`in
`
`the opinions you express in your declaration of
`
`Exhibit 2007?
`
`Form.
`
`MR. NIGHTINGALE: Objection.
`
`A.
`
`I've heard it say that
`
`I
`
`am
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`
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`confident.
`
`l don't
`
`like to associate numbers
`
`with confidence levels.
`
`So I'm confident
`
`in
`
`the opinions.
`
`Q.
`
`What
`
`is your
`
`level of confidence
`
`in your opinions in this IPR?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`by that?
`
`I'm confident.
`
`How confident?
`
`Confident.
`
`I just want to know what you mean
`
`
`
`GregoryEdwards, LLC I Worldwide Court Reporting
`GregoryEdwards.com | 866—4Team GE
`
`
`
`— August 28, 2019
`Martin C. Rinard, Ph.D.
`Page 21
`
`bCAJN
`
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`MR. NIGHTINGALE: Objection.
`
`Form.
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`1 mean,
`
`I’m confident.
`
`1 mean, do you question any of
`
`your opinions?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`No.
`
`Did you prepare for your
`
`deposition here today?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`Yes.
`
`When?
`
`So in some sense I have been
`
`
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`preparing fOr the deposition ever since l've
`
`been working on the case, but
`
`l don't think
`
`that's what you're asking.
`
`More specifically, yesterday I met
`
`with Mr. Nightingale here and went through ——
`
`I
`
`met with Mr. Nightingale.
`
`Q.
`
`And for how long did you meet with
`
`Mr. Nightingale?
`
`A.
`
`I would say approximately five
`
`hours.
`
`Q.
`
`Mr. Nightingale is your counsel?
`
`
`
`
`
`GregoryEdwards, LLC 1 Worldwide Court Reporting
`GregoryEdwards.com l 866—4Team GE
`
`
`
`— August 28, 2019
`Martin C. Rinard, Ph.D.
`Page 22
`
`09:
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`:03
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`O>O>
`
`Yes.
`
`And that was
`
`in person?
`
`Yes.
`
`You've got Exhibit 1001 in front
`
`of you. That's the '949 patent.
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Hmm—hmm.
`
`Befbre you were contacted by
`
`Qualcomm, had you ever heard of the '949
`
`patent?
`
`A.
`
`0.
`
`No.
`
`Before you were hired by Qualcomm,
`
`had you ever heard of any of the inventors of
`
` 11
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`09:
`
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`
`:34
`
`
`
`the '949 patent?
`
`A.
`
`0.
`
`i don't believe so, no.
`
`Now, you mentioned Mr. Haehnichen
`
`earlier, right?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Yes.
`
`And did you speak with him as part
`
`of your work on this lPR or on the litigation?
`
`A.
`
`I
`
`saw Mr. Haehnichen at trial.
`
`1
`
`exchanged pleasantries.
`
`i wouldn't say | spoke
`
`with him in any substantive way.
`
`
`
`GregoryEdwards, LLC I Worldwide Court Reporting
`GregoryEdwards.com l 866—4Team GE
`
`
`
`— August 28, 2019
`Martin C. Rinard, Ph.D.
`Page 23
`
`09:
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`14
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`:35
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`:14:
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`
`12
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`
`Q.
`
`Have you ever spoken with any of
`
`the inventors of the '949 patent
`
`in a
`
`substantive way?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`1 would say no.
`
`Aside from Mr. Haehnichen, have
`
`you spoken with any of the other inventors of
`
`the '949 patent?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`I don't believe so, no.
`
`The background of the ’949 patent
`
`describes multiprocessor systems,
`
`right?
`
`A.
`
`Do you have a specific part of the
`
`background that you're referring to?
`
` 11
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`09:
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`09:
`
`15:
`
`48
`
`
`
`Q.
`
`Column 1, starting around Line 45
`
`or so.
`
`A.
`
`it does indeed reference multiple
`
`processors.
`
`Q.
`
`Am 1 right that multiprocessor
`
`systems that
`
`included an application processor
`
`and a modem processor existed in the prior art
`
`to the '949 patent?
`
`A.
`
`Can 1 hear the question again?
`
`(Reporter read back pending
`
`
`
`GregoryEdwards, LLC 1 Worldwide Court Reporting
`GregoryEdwards com | 866—4Team GE
`
`
`
`— August 28, 2019
`Martin C. Rinard, Ph.D.
`Page 24
`
`09:
`
`15:
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`49
`
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`15:
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`49
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`:16:
`
`33
`
`question)
`
`A.
`
`I
`
`think it's accurate to say that
`
`there were indeed systems that
`
`included
`
`application processors and modem processors in
`
`the prior art.
`
`Q.
`
`And those are multiprocessor
`
`systems, right?
`
`A.
`
`Yes, because they have two
`
`processors.
`
`Q.
`
`Would you agree that
`
`including a
`
`processer's boot code in a nonvolatile memory
`
`is prior art to the '949 patent?
`
` 11
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`
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`
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`
`O9:
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`16:
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`47
`
`O9
`
`:16:
`
`49
`
`09:
`
`16:
`
`51
`
`
`
`A.
`
`I
`
`think the answer
`
`is yes, because
`
`unless it's stored in a nonvolatile memory,
`
`it's going to go —— if it's stored in volatile
`
`memory,
`
`it'll go away when you power down the
`
`processor and it can't boot from it.
`
`So, yes,
`
`of course, you would have your boot code stored
`
`in nonvolatile memory.
`
`Q.
`
`And flash memory is an example of
`
`a nonvolatile memory;
`
`is that right?
`
`A.
`
`Yes, that's one example.
`
`
`
`GregoryEdwards, LLC | Worldwide Court Reporting
`GregoryEdwards.com I 866—4Team GE
`
`
`
`— August 28, 2019
`Martin C. Rinard, Ph D.
`Page 25
`
`09:
`
`16:
`
`52
`
`09:
`
`16:
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`56
`
`09
`
`:16:
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`
`09:
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`:01
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`09:
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`09:
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`17
`
`:13
`
`09:
`
`17:
`
`13
`
`Q.
`
`What's an example of volatile
`
`memory?
`
`A.
`
`Typical RAM, DRAM, dynamic RAM,
`
`dynamic random access memory.
`
`0.
`
`A.
`
`0.
`
`Is all DRAM system memory?
`
`That depends on the context.
`
`So it’s possible to have RAM that
`
`is not system memory;
`
`is that right?
`
`MR. NIGHTINGALE: Objection.
`
`Form.
`
`A.
`
`l'm not putting fOrth that opinion
`
`09
`
`:17:
`
`15
`
`12
`
`here today.
`
`I
`
`think whether something is
`
` 11
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`09:
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`
`32
`
`
`
`system memory or not, you have to look at it in
`
`the context of the system to determine if it's
`
`system memory or not.
`
`Q.
`
`So then you can have a DRAM memory
`
`and not have it be system memory in some
`
`context, right?
`
`MR. NIGHTlNGALE: Objection.
`
`Form.
`
`A.
`
`3
`
`I'd have to see the context.
`
`l'm
`
`not going to put forth an opinion on that
`
`
`
`GregoryEdwards, LLC 1 Worldwide Court Reporting
`GregoryEdwards.com l 866—4Team GE
`
`
`
`Martin C. Rinard, Ph.D.
`— August 28, 2019
`
`Page 26
`
`O9:
`
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`1
`
`2
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`4
`
`5
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`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`question one way or the other.
`
`Q.
`
`Am I right that multiprocessor
`
`systems in which boot code for a second
`
`processor is stored in a nonvolatile memory
`
`associated with a first processor existed in
`
`the prior art of the '949 patent?
`
`MR. NIGHTINGALE: Objection.
`
`Form.
`
`A.
`
`l'd like to hear the question
`
`again.
`
`l'm sorry.
`
`Q.
`
`l'm going to say one thing.
`
`If we
`
`
`
`12
`
`13
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`14
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`
`O9:
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`
`09:
`
`18:
`
`47
`
`could all
`
`try not to make our objections and to
`
`speak when l'm asking questions, and I'll try
`
`not to interrupt you guys,
`
`I
`
`think it will be
`
`easier for all of us.
`
`Can we try to do that?
`
`A.
`
`l'm absolutely trying. Yes.
`
`MR. HAAG:
`
`Can you read the
`
`question back, please.
`
`(Reporter read back pending
`
`question)
`
`A.
`
`As
`
`i understand the question, what
`
`
`
`
`
`GregoryEdwards, LLC 1 Worldwide Court Reporting
`GregoryEdwards.com I 866~4Team GE
`
`
`
`— August 28, 2019
`Martin C. Rinard, Ph D.
`Page 27
`
`09:
`
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`49
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`26
`
`you’re asking is,
`
`l have two processors, and
`
`I've got the boot code for a second processor
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`stored in memory associated with the first
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`processor, and I believe that those systems did
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`indeed exist prior to the '949 patent.
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`Q.
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`Would you agree that
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`multiprocessor systems in which a primary
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`processor uses nonvolatile memory to store a
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`software image for a secondary processor
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`existed in the prior art to the '949 patent?
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`A.
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`You're using terms primary
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`processor and secondary processor that are tied
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`to the patent more than to the field itself.
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`Let me hear the question again, and I'll give
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`you an answer, and we'll go from there,
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`if
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`that's okay for you.
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`MR. HAAG:
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`l'm going to ask to
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`have the question read back.
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`(Reporter read back pending
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`question)
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`MR. NIGHTlNGALE: Objection to
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`form.
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`
`
`GregoryEdwards, LLC | Worldwide Court Reporting
`GregoryEdwards.com l 866—4Team GE
`
`
`
`— August 28, 2019
`Martin C. Rinard, Ph.D.
`Page 28
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`A.
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`I
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`think that's the same question
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`as the previous question.
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`I mean,
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`it's true
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`that there are systems where you have two
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`processors where one processor is associated
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`with a nonvolatile memory that stores the boot
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`code for a second processor.
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`0.
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`And my question used term the
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`”software image ” Were you using the term
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`”boot code” to be an example of the software
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`image?
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`MR. NIGHTINGALE: Objection.
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`Form.
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`A.
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`I had understood you to be asking
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`about a boot
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`image.
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`I’m not saying in this
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`context, unless you're making a distinction
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`there, a big distinction between a software
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`image and a boot
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`image, as long as the boot
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`image is actually booting the software for one
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`of the processors.
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`Q.
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`Am i right a software image can
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`include more than a boot
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`image or are those two
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`terms synonymous?
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`
`
`GregoryEdwards, LLC I Worldwide Court Reporting
`GregoryEdwards.com l 866—4Team GE
`
`
`
`— August 28, 2019
`Martin C. Rinard, Ph D.
`Page 29
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`A.
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`There that would depend very much
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`on the context.
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`So people would make
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`distinctions in different contexts that they
`
`wouldn't make in others.
`
`I
`
`think in the
`
`context of this patent, we’re talking about
`
`code that‘s being used to boot another
`
`processor.
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`Q.
`
`So are you saying that
`
`in the
`
`context of the '949 patent, a boot
`
`image and a
`
`software image are essentially synonymous?
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`MR. NIGHTlNGALE: Objection to
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`form.
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`I don't think l'm putting
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`A.
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`Yeah,
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`forth __
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`i mean,
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`l'm not trying to be that
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`precise with the terms here in answering your
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`two questions that previously,
`
`I
`
`think,
`
`if we
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`go to the claim, Claim 1, for example, you'll
`
`see executable software image,
`
`I
`
`think,
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`in the
`
`context of Claim 1.
`
`Okay, yeah.
`
`If you look at the
`
`'949 patent,
`
`it's all about giving a processor
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`code that it can use to boot.
`
`
`
`GregoryEdwards, LLC [ Worldwide Court Reporting
`GregoryEdwards.com I 866~4Team GE
`
`
`
`- August 28, 2019
`Martin C. Rinard, Ph D.
`Page 30
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`Q.
`
`So are you saying in the context
`
`of the '949 patent, a software image and a boot
`
`code are essentially synonymous terms?
`
`MR. NlGHTlNGALE: Objection to
`
`form.
`
`A.
`
`I wouldn't want to go that far,
`
`because there may be some distinctions,
`
`some
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`fine distinctions between them.
`
`I
`
`think in
`
`this context what we're talking about
`
`is an
`
`executable software image, and if you read the
`
`patent, you'll see that one of