Martin C. Rinard, Ph.D.
`
`- August 28, 2019
`
`UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`
`
`
`BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`INTEL CORPORATION,
`
`Petitioner
`
`V.
`
`QUALCOMM INCORPORATED,
`
`Patent Owner.
`
`Trial No.
`
`IPR2018-01334
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`Page 1 onwo&WwWPY
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`GregoryEdwards.com | 866-4Team GE
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`DEPOSITION of MARTIN C. RINARD, Ph.D.
`
`August 28, 2019
`
`Boston, Massachusetts
`
`Reporter: Michael D. O'Connor, RMR, CRR, CRC
`
`IPR2018-01334
`Intel v. Qualcomm
`INTEL 1022
`
`
`
`- August 28, 2019
`
`UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`
`
`
`BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`INTEL CORPORATION,
`
`Petitioner
`
`V.
`
`QUALCOMM INCORPORATED,
`
`Patent Owner.
`
`Trial No.
`
`IPR2018-01334
`
`
`
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`Page 1 onwo&WwWPY
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`GregoryEdwards, LLC | Wor |dwide Court Reporting
`GregoryEdwards.com | 866-4Team GE
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`DEPOSITION of MARTIN C. RINARD, Ph.D.
`
`August 28, 2019
`
`Boston, Massachusetts
`
`Reporter: Michael D. O'Connor, RMR, CRR, CRC
`
`IPR2018-01334
`Intel v. Qualcomm
`INTEL 1022
`
`
`
`Martin C. Rinard, Ph.D.
`
`- August 28, 2019
`
`Wednesday, August 28, 2019
`
`8:59 a.m.
`
`DEPOSITION of MARTIN C. RINARD,
`
`Ph.D., held at Jones Day, 100 High Street,
`
`Boston, Massachusetts, pursuant to notice,
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`before Michael D. O'Connor, Registered Merit
`
`Reporter, Certified Realtime Reporter,
`
`Certified Realtime Captioner, and Notary
`
`Public in and for the Commonwealth of
`
`Massachusetts.
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`GregoryEdwards, LLC | Worldwide Court Reporting
`GregoryEdwards.com | 866-4Team GE
`
`
`
`Martin C. Rinard, Ph.D.
`
`- August 28, 2019
`
`Page 3
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`APPEARANCES:
`
`ATTORNEYS FOR INTEL CORPORATION:
`
`WILMER CUTLER PICKERING HALE AND DORR LLP
`
`
`
`
`
`
`1875 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW
`
`Washington, DC 20006
`
`(202) 663-6227
`
`BY:
`
`THOMAS E. ANDERSON, ESQ.
`
`tom. anderson@wi |Imerhale.com
`
`- and -
`
`WILMER CUTLER PICKERING HALE AND DORR LLP
`
`950 Page Mill Road
`
`Palo Alto, California 94304
`
`(650) 858-6032
`
`BY:
`
`JOSEPH F. HAAG, ESQ.
`
`joseph. haag@wi |merhale.com
`
`GregoryEdwards, LLC | Worldwide Court Reporting
`GregoryEdwards.com | 866-4Team GE
`
`
`
`Martin C. Rinard, Ph.D.
`
`- August 28, 2019
`
`APPEARANCE S (CONTINUED):
`
`ATTORNEYS FOR QUALCOMM,
`
`INC. :
`
`JONES DAY
`
`500 Grant Street, Suite 4500
`
`Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania 15219-2514
`
`~
`
`(412) 391-3939
`
`BY:
`
`JOSHUA R. NIGHTINGALE, ESQ.
`
`jrnightingale@j onesday.com
`
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`Page 4
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`GregoryEdwards, LLC | Worldwide Court Reporting
`GregoryEdwards.com | 866-4Team GE
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`
`
`Martin C. Rinard, Ph.D.
`
`- August 28, 2019
`
`INDEX
`
`WITNESS: MARTIN C. RINARD, Ph.D.
`
`EXAMINATION
`
`By Mr. Haag
`
`PAGE
`
`6
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`so OK
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`Page 9
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`memWwWNd
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`PREVIOUSLY MARKED EXHIBITS
`
`DESCRIPTION
`
`“PAGE
`
`NO.
`
`INTEL
`
`Exhibit 1001 U.S. Patent 8,838,949
`
`Exhibit 1009 U.S. Patent Application
`
`2006/0288019 Al
`
`Exhibit 1010 U.S. Patent 7,356,680
`
`Exhibit 1012 Korean translation of
`
`10
`
`113
`
`96
`
`138
`
`Kim Tae-Young reference
`
`QUALCOMM
`
`Exhibit 2007 Declaration of
`
`11
`
`Dr. Martin Rinard
`
`OK KK KK
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`GregoryEdwards, LLC | Worldwide Court Reporting
`GregoryEdwards.com | 866-4Team GE
`
`
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`Martin C. Rinard, Ph.D.
`
`- August 28, 2019
`
`PROCEEDINGS
`
`MARTIN C. RINARD, Ph.D.
`
`having been satisfactorily identified by the
`
`production of his driver's license, and duly
`
`sworn by the Notary Public, was examined and
`
`testified as follows:
`
`EXAMINATION
`
`BY MR. HAAG:
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`the record.
`
`Good morning.
`
`Good morning.
`
`Can you please state your name for
`
`A,
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Martin Rinard.
`
`And where do you live?
`
`Arlington, Massachusetts.
`
`You understand you're under oath
`
`here today,
`
`right?
`
`A,
`
`Q.
`
`That's my understanding.
`
`Is there any reason you can't give
`
`08:52:45
`
`08:52:45
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`08:
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`Page 6
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`GregoryEdwards, LLC | Worldwide Court Reporting
`GregoryEdwards.com | 866-4Team GE
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`
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`Martin C. Rinard, Ph.D.
`
`- August 28, 2019
`
`truthful
`
`testimony here today?
`
`right?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`A,
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`Not that | know of.
`
`You have been deposed before,
`
`Yes.
`
`How many times?
`
`| can't give you an exact number.
`
`| would say somewhere in the ballpark of
`
`between six and ten.
`
`Q.
`
`Okay.
`
`So you understand I|'11 be
`
`asking you a series of questions here today?
`
`A,
`
`Q.
`
`Yes.
`
`And I'd like to ask you to let me
`
`finish my questions before you answer.
`
`Can you
`
`try to do that?
`
`A,
`
`Q.
`
`| will
`
`try to do that.
`
`And | will
`
`likewise try to let you
`
`finish your answer before | ask my next
`
`question. Okay?
`
`A,
`
`Q.
`
`| would appreciate that.
`
`Okay.
`
`Now, you're an expert for
`
`Qualcomm in this matter;
`
`is that right?
`
`08:
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`Page 7
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`GregoryEdwards, LLC | Worldwide Court Reporting
`GregoryEdwards.com | 866-4Team GE
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`
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`Martin C. Rinard, Ph.D.
`
`- August 28, 2019
`
`A,
`
`| believe | was retained by
`
`Qualcomm, yes.
`
`Q.
`
`And the subject of this deposition
`
`relates, at
`
`least
`
`in part,
`
`to a patent that's
`
`the '949 patent, right?
`
`A,
`
`Q.
`
`| believe that's correct.
`
`And that's a patent you've
`
`testified at trial before on, right?
`
`A,
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Yes.
`
`One trial?
`
`| believe that's true.
`
`Okay.
`
`And that was a trial
`
`in San
`
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`SeW
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`on
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`Diego earlier this year?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Yes, that's correct.
`
`Aside from your work on the ‘949
`
`patent, have you ever worked for Qualcomm
`
`before?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`| don't believe so, no.
`
`This is the first matter you've
`
`worked for Qualcomm on,
`
`to your knowledge?
`
`A,
`
`To the best of my recollection,
`
`this is the first time I've been retained by
`
`
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`GregoryEdwards, LLC | Worldwide Court Reporting
`GregoryEdwards.com | 866-4Team GE
`
`
`
`Martin C. Rinard, Ph.D.
`
`- August 28, 2019
`
`Qualcomm, certainly as an expert.
`
`| don't
`
`believe I've been employed by them in any other
`
`matter,
`
`in any other capacity.
`
`Q.
`
`Have they funded any of your
`
`research?
`
`A.
`
`| don't believe so.
`
`They may have
`
`funded research more broadly within MIT or even
`
`the lab that I'm in, but not me personally,
`
`to
`
`my knowledge.
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`What
`
`lab are you in?
`
`Computer Science and Artificial
`
`Intelligence Laboratory.
`
`Q.
`
`If | refer to the ‘949 patent,
`
`you'!! know what
`
`I'm talking about, right?
`
`A,
`
`Yeah. Why don’t we -- do you want
`
`to get a copy of it just so --
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`| will do that in a minute, yes.
`
`| believe we're referring to the
`
`same patent, but
`
`|
`
`think it would be good to
`
`get the number.
`
`Q.
`
`I'll do it right now.
`
`So l've
`
`handed you a document that's already been
`
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`GregoryEdwards, LLC | Worldwide Court Reporting
`GregoryEdwards.com | 866-4Team GE
`
`
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`Martin C. Rinard, Ph.D.
`
`- August 28, 2019
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`09:
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`on
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`marked as Intel Exhibit 1001.
`
`It's a copy of
`
`U.S. Patent No. 8,838,949. Did |
`
`read that
`
`right?
`
`A,
`
`Q.
`
`| believe so.
`
`And if | refer to Exhibit 1001 as
`
`the '949 patent, will you understand what
`
`|
`
`mean?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`| believe so, yes.
`
`This is the '949 patent you've
`
`worked on for this matter, right?
`
`A.
`
`Let me just take a quick look to
`
`be sure. Without checking every page and every
`
`word,
`
`it appears to be that patent, yes.
`
`Q.
`
`And you understand that Intel has
`
`filed a number of IPR petitions seeking to
`
`invalidate certain claims of the ‘949 patent,
`
`right?
`
`A,
`
`Q.
`
`That's my understanding.
`
`And am | right you've submitted
`
`one declaration for this matter?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Yes, one declaration.
`
`Do you understand that the IPRs
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`Page 10 >WwW
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`GregoryEdwards, LLC | Worldwide Court Reporting
`GregoryEdwards.com | 866-4Team GE
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`Martin C. Rinard, Ph.D.
`
`- August 28, 2019
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`have been consolidated into one IPR?
`
`A,
`
`That's getting more into the legal
`
`realm.
`
`| don't dispute that.
`
`My opinions are
`
`in my declaration.
`
`| was asked to provide
`
`technical opinions.
`
`If you were going to
`
`represent that's true to me,
`
`|'I1 accept it,
`
`but
`
`I'm not going to endorse it.
`
`Q.
`
`Okay. You've got Exhibit 2007 in
`
`front of you, right?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Yes.
`
`And this is entitled "Declaration
`
`of Dr. Martin Rinard"?
`
`A,
`
`Q.
`
`A,
`
`Q.
`
`Rinard, yes.
`
`How do you say your name again?
`
`Rinard.
`
`| apologize if | get that a little
`
`bit mixed up.
`
`A,
`
`Q.
`
`You wouldn't be the first.
`
`| have Rinard in my mind, so |
`
`apologize about that.
`
`A,
`
`Q.
`
`| will answer to either one.
`
`So Exhibit 2007 is the only
`
`
`
`GregoryEdwards, LLC | Worldwide Court Reporting
`GregoryEdwards.com | 866-4Team GE
`
`
`
`Martin C. Rinard, Ph.D.
`
`- August 28, 2019
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`declaration you've submitted for this matter,
`
`right?
`
`A.
`
`Let me check. Yes,
`
`this looks
`
`like the one declaration that
`
`| have submitted
`
`in this case.
`
`| haven't read every page and
`
`every word.
`
`Q.
`
`And if | refer to Exhibit 2007 as
`
`your declaration, will you understand what
`
`|
`
`mean?
`
`A.
`
`|
`
`think we can agree on that
`
`terminology.
`
`Q.
`
`And if we look at the front page,
`
`do you see it says "Case IPR2018-01334"?
`
`A,
`
`Q.
`
`| do see that.
`
`There's a footnote there.
`
`The
`
`footnote says,
`
`"IPR2018-01335 and |PR2018-01336
`
`has been consolidated with the instant
`
`proceeding.”
`
`A,
`
`Q.
`
`Do you see that?
`
`| do indeed.
`
`If we
`
`look on Page 96 of your
`
`declaration,
`
`is that your signature, sir?
`
`Page 12 11
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`GregoryEdwards, LLC | Worldwide Court Reporting
`GregoryEdwards.com | 866-4Team GE
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`
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`Martin ©. Rinard, Ph.D.
`
`- August 28, 2019
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`It appears to be.
`
`And then you've got an Appendix A
`
`that starts on Page 97, right?
`
`A.
`
`Yes, Appendix A is on 97.
`
`The CV
`
`starts on Page 98.
`
`Q.
`
`So the Appendix A is your
`
`curriculum vitae?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Yes,
`
`it looks like it.
`
`And is this CV up to date?
`
`Let me take a quick look.
`
`With the exception of anything
`
`that
`
`is published since the time you submitted
`
`this?
`
`A.
`
`Yeah, although my copy,
`
`|
`
`think,
`
`is missing a page.
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`What page?
`
`It ends on 111.
`
`|
`
`think there
`
`should be a page after that.
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`My copy ends on 111 as well?
`
`Normally when | have a CV,
`
`there's
`
`additional pages after this.
`
`Q.
`
`What are on those additional
`
`
`Page 13 11
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`GregoryEdwards, LLC | Worldwide Court Reporting
`GregoryEdwards.com | 866-4Team GE
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`
`Martin C. Rinard, Ph.D.
`
`- August 28, 2019
`
`09:
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`pages?
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`A.
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`In this case,
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`there would be some
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`additional courses and,
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`|
`
`think, maybe some
`
`cases that I've testified or have been retained
`
`on.
`
`|
`
`typically tend to put my
`
`legal
`
`experience at the end of the CV.
`
`There may be something else there.
`
`| don't exactly remember the exact format
`
`|
`
`used for this one.
`
`Q.
`
`Okay.
`
`The rest of the CV is
`
`accurate,
`
`to the best of your knowledge?
`
`A.
`
`|'d have to go through and take a
`
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`very detailed look at all of it. But just
`
`looking at it here seems to be accurate to me,
`
`again, with the exception of,
`
`| believe,
`
`some
`
`more recent publications.
`
`Q.
`
`I'd like you to look at Paragraph
`
`3 of your declaration of Exhibit 2007.
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Paragraph 3, yes.
`
`And you list here the materials
`
`you considered for this IPR;
`
`is that right?
`
`A.
`
`Yes.
`
`
`
`Martin C. Rinard, Ph.D.
`
`- August 28, 2019
`
`meWwhd
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`O7:
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`11
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`12
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`Q.
`
`Did you read all of the materials
`
`you've set forth here?
`
`A.
`
`Let me take a
`
`look.
`
`| believe so,
`
`with the exception | wouldn't say that
`
`| ‘ve
`
`read all of the transcripts of the trial
`
`listed
`
`here, but
`
`| have read most of the transcripts
`
`of the jury trial.
`
`| may very well have read
`
`all of those transcripts listed.
`
`Q.
`
`Are you talking about the
`
`transcripts listed at the top of Page 3?
`
`A,
`
`Q.
`
`Yes.
`
`Do you think you only read the
`
`Page 15
`
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`transcript.
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`GregoryEdwards.com | 866-4Team GE
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`portions of those transcripts that are cited in
`
`your declaration?
`
`A.
`
`| can't tell you here for sure
`
`that I've read the entire transcript of the
`
`whole trial.
`
`I've read much of the transcript,
`
`and | believe that all
`
`the transcripts that
`
`|'ve cited here | have read. All
`
`the
`
`transcripts that
`
`|
`
`reference in the
`
`declaration,
`
`I've read those parts of the
`
`
`
`Martin C. Rinard, Ph.D.
`
`- August 28, 2019
`
`Q.
`
`So you mean when it says “Day 2"
`
`at the beginning of Page 3 --
`
`A.
`
`Right,
`
`| can’t tell you that I've
`
`read the entirety of the day 2 transcript, but
`
`| have read the parts that I've cited in the
`
`declaration.
`
`Q.
`
`So are you saying that
`
`if on day 2
`
`Dr. Lin testified and you cited Dr. Lin's
`
`testimony, you would have read all of Dr. Lin's
`
`testimony from day 2?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Yes.
`
`|
`
`think he probably did not
`
`testify on day 2, but
`
`| give that as an
`
`example.
`
`A.
`
`No,
`
`|
`
`think Steve Haehnichen, for
`
`example, may be one of the day 2 people that
`
`|
`
`reference.
`
`Q.
`
`And he's one of the inventors of
`
`the '949 patent?
`
`A.
`
`He's one of the named inventors.
`
`|
`
`think he's the fourth named inventor.
`
`Q.
`
`Is your declaration of Exhibit
`
`09:
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`09
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`Page 16
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`
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`GregoryEdwards, LLC | Worldwide Court Reporting
`GregoryEdwards.com | 866-4Team GE
`
`
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`
`
`Martin C. Rinard, Ph.D.
`
`- August 28, 2019
`
`09:
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`09:
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`22
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`2007 complete,
`
`to the best of your knowledge?
`
`A,
`
`Okay.
`
`Looking at it,
`
`the first
`
`page looks right.
`
`The last page looks right.
`
`The pages that
`
`|
`
`took a look at
`
`in the middle
`
`seem to be correct.
`
`| can't tell you whether there's
`
`potentially a missing page from some sort of
`
`clerical error. We can go through and count
`
`them all and see.
`
`Q.
`
`So after there being a missing
`
`page --
`
`A.
`
`Or some other.
`
`| should let you
`
`finish.
`
`Q,
`
`If we try to let each other
`
`finish,
`
`it will make it easier for everyone,
`
`including the court reporter.
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`| apologize.
`
`So absent the missing page, do you
`
`think your declaration of Exhibit 2007 contains
`
`a complete statement of your opinions for this
`
`IPR?
`
`A.
`
`The declaration that
`
`| wrote and
`
`Page 1/ 11
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`
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`GregoryEdwards, LLC | Worldwide Court Reporting
`GregoryEdwards.com | 866-4Team GE
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`Page 18
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`Martin C. Rinard, Ph.D.
`
`- August 28, 2019
`
`submitted in this case, does contain a complete
`
`statements of the opinions |
`
`intend to offer in
`
`this IPR.
`
`Q.
`
`You don't have any other opinions
`
`sitting here right now you intend to offer,
`
`aside from what sets forth in Exhibit 2007?
`
`A.
`
`| believe that the declaration |
`
`submitted contains all
`
`the opinions |
`
`intend to
`
`offer.
`
`Q.
`
`And does your declaration also
`
`contain all of the bases for your opinions
`
`you've offered?
`
`MR. NIGHTINGALE: Objection to
`
`form.
`
`A,
`
`Well, that's a more difficult
`
`question to answer, because there's a
`
`lot of
`
`things that
`
`|
`
`--
`
`like my experience in the
`
`field,
`
`| can't lay forth all
`
`the experience in
`
`my field is relevant here.
`
`|'ve tried to cite the specific
`
`materials and lay forth in the declaration
`
`those parts of the materials that are relevant
`
`
`
`GregoryEdwards, LLC | Worldwide Court Reporting
`GregoryEdwards.com | 866-4Team GE
`
`
`
`Martin C. Rinard, Ph.D.
`
`- August 28, 2019
`
`09:
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`09:
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`[18
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`09:
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`:20
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`»34
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`735
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`09:
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`38
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`09:
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`740
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`09:
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`‘42
`
`09:
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`744
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`09:
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`745
`
`09:
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`:47
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`09:
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`:49
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`09:
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`:49
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`755
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`£57
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`13
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`15
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`17
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`18
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`19
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`20
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`21
`
`22
`
`to my opinion, but there's a lot of background
`
`that
`
`| have that | obviously can't list in
`
`something of this length.
`
`Q.
`
`But you didn't leave out any of
`
`the bases for your opinions on purpose, right?
`
`A,
`
`That's right.
`
`| purposely tried
`
`to lay out the reasonable basis for what
`
`I'm
`
`talking about here,
`
`to the extent
`
`it’s possible
`
`in this format.
`
`Q.
`
`And you don't have any intention
`
`of changing any of the opinions set forth in
`
`Exhibit 2007 at this point
`
`in time?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Not sitting here today, no.
`
`When is the last time you've
`
`reviewed your declaration?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`declaration?
`
`Last night.
`
`Are there any errors in your
`
`A.
`
`I'm not aware of any technical
`
`errors in my declaration or any other errors
`
`like that.
`
`Q.
`
`There may be some typographical
`
`Page 19 11
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`
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`GregoryEdwards, LLC | Worldwide Court Reporting
`GregoryEdwards.com | 866-4Team GE
`
`
`
`
`
`Martin C. Rinard, Ph.D.
`
`- August 28, 2019
`
`Page 20
`
`09:
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`errors?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`For example, yeah.
`
`But you're not aware of any
`
`substantive errors in your declaration of
`
`Exhibit 2007?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Not sitting here today, no.
`
`Are you 100 percent confident
`
`in
`
`the opinions you express in your declaration of
`
`Exhibit 2007?
`
`Form.
`
`MR. NIGHTINGALE: Objection.
`
`A.
`
`|'ve heard it say that
`
`|
`
`am
`
`confident.
`
`| don't
`
`like to associate numbers
`
`with confidence levels.
`
`So |'m confident
`
`in
`
`the opinions.
`
`Q.
`
`What
`
`is your
`
`level of confidence
`
`in your opinions in this IPR?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`by that?
`
`I'm confident.
`
`How confident?
`
`Confident.
`
`| just want to know what you mean
`
` 11
`
`
`
`GregoryEdwards, LLC | Worldwide Court Reporting
`GregoryEdwards.com | 866-4Team GE
`
`
`
`
`
`Martin C. Rinard, Ph.D.
`
`- August 28, 2019
`
`MR. NIGHTINGALE: Objection.
`
`Form.
`
`A,
`
`Q.
`
`| mean,
`
`|'m confident.
`
`| mean, do you question any of
`
`your opinions?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`No.
`
`Did you prepare for your
`
`deposition here today?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`Yes.
`
`When?
`
`So in some sense | have been
`
`preparing for the deposition ever since I've
`
`been working on the case, but
`
`| don't think
`
`that's what you're asking.
`
`More specifically, yesterday | met
`
`with Mr. Nightingale here and went through --
`
`|
`
`met with Mr. Nightingale.
`
`Q.
`
`And for how long did you meet with
`
`Mr. Nightingale?
`
`hours.
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`| would say approximately five
`
`Mr. Nightingale is your counsel?
`
`
`Page 21
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`meWwNr
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`on
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`11
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`18
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`16
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`17
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`22
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`GregoryEdwards, LLC | Worldwide Court Reporting
`GregoryEdwards.com | 866-4Team GE
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`Martin C. Rinard, Ph.D.
`
`- August 28, 2019
`
`DoTrFDSFY
`
`Yes.
`
`And that was
`
`in person?
`
`Yes.
`
`You've got Exhibit 1001 in front
`
`of you. That's the ‘949 patent.
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Hmm-hmm.
`
`Before you were contacted by
`
`Qualcomm, had you ever heard of the ‘949
`
`patent?
`
`A,
`
`Q.
`
`No.
`
`Before you were hired by Qualcomm,
`
`had you ever heard of any of the inventors of
`
`the '949 patent?
`
`A,
`
`Q.
`
`| don't believe so, no.
`
`Now, you mentioned Mr. Haehnichen
`
`earlier, right?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Yes.
`
`And did you speak with him as part
`
`of your work on this IPR or on the litigation?
`
`A.
`
`|
`
`saw Mr. Haehnichen at trial.
`
`|
`
`exchanged pleasantries.
`
`| wouldn't say | spoke
`
`with him in any substantive way.
`
`09:
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`:04
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`14
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`GregoryEdwards, LLC | Worldwide Court Reporting
`GregoryEdwards.com | 866-4Team GE
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`Page 23 11
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`Martin C. Rinard, Ph.D.
`
`- August 28, 2019
`
`Q.
`
`Have you ever spoken with any of
`
`the inventors of the ‘949 patent
`
`in a
`
`substantive way?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`| would say no.
`
`Aside from Mr. Haehnichen, have
`
`you spoken with any of the other inventors of
`
`the '949 patent?
`
`A,
`
`Q.
`
`| don't believe so, no.
`
`The background of the ‘949 patent
`
`describes multiprocessor systems,
`
`right?
`
`A.
`
`Do you have a specific part of the
`
`background that you're referring to?
`
`or so.
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`processors.
`
`Column 1, starting around Line 45
`
`It does indeed reference multiple
`
`Q.
`
`Am | right that multiprocessor
`
`systems that
`
`included an application processor
`
`and a modem processor existed in the prior art
`
`to the '949 patent?
`
`A.
`
`Can | hear the question again?
`
`(Reporter read back pending
`
`
`
`GregoryEdwards, LLC | Worldwide Court Reporting
`GregoryEdwards.com | 866-4Team GE
`
`
`
`Martin C. Rinard, Ph.D.
`
`- August 28, 2019
`
`question)
`
`A.
`
`|
`
`think it's accurate to say that
`
`there were indeed systems that
`
`included
`
`application processors and modem processors in
`
`the prior art.
`
`Q.
`
`And those are multiprocessor
`
`systems, right?
`
`A.
`
`Yes, because they have two
`
`processors.
`
`Q.
`
`Would you agree that
`
`including a
`
`processer's boot code in a nonvolatile memory
`
`is prior art to the ‘949 patent?
`
`A.
`
`|
`
`think the answer
`
`is yes, because
`
`unless it's stored in a nonvolatile memory,
`
`it's going to go --
`
`if it’s stored in volatile
`
`memory,
`
`it'll go away when you power down the
`
`processor and it can't boot from it.
`
`So, yes,
`
`of course, you would have your boot code stored
`
`in nonvolatile memory.
`
`Q.
`
`And flash memory is an example of
`
`a nonvolatile memory;
`
`is that right?
`
`A.
`
`Yes, that's one example.
`
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`Page 24 11
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`
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`GregoryEdwards, LLC | Worldwide Court Reporting
`GregoryEdwards.com | 866-4Team GE
`
`
`
`
`
`Martin C. Rinard, Ph.D.
`
`- August 28, 2019
`
`Page 25
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`Q.
`
`What's an example of volatile
`
`memory?
`
`A,
`
`Typical RAM, DRAM, dynamic RAM,
`
`dynamic random access memory.
`
`Q.
`
`A,
`
`Q.
`
`Is all DRAM system memory?
`
`That depends on the context.
`
`So it's possible to have RAM that
`
`is not system memory;
`
`is that right?
`
`MR. NIGHTINGALE: Objection.
`
`Form,
`
`A.
`
`I'm not putting forth that opinion
`
`here today.
`
`|
`
`think whether something is
`
`system memory or not, you have to look at it in
`
`the context of the system to determine if it's
`
`system memory or not.
`
`Q.
`
`So then you can have a DRAM memory
`
`and not have it be system memory in some
`
`context, right?
`
`MR. NIGHTINGALE: Objection.
`
`Form.
`A,
`
`|
`
`|'d have to see the context.
`
`I'm
`
`not. going to put forth an opinion on that
`
` 11
`
`
`
`GregoryEdwards, LLC | Worldwide Court Reporting
`GregoryEdwards.com | 866-4Team GE
`
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`Martin C. Rinard, Ph.D.
`
`- August 28, 2019
`
`question one way or the other.
`
`Q.
`
`Am | right that multiprocessor
`
`systems in which boot code for a second
`
`processor is stored in a nonvolatile memory
`
`associated with a first processor existed in
`
`the prior art of the ‘949 patent?
`
`MR. NIGHTINGALE: Objection.
`
`Form.
`
`I'd like to hear the question
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`
`Page 26 11
`
`again.
`
`I'm sorry.
`
`|'m going to say one thing.
`
`If we
`
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`could all
`
`try not to make our objections and to
`
`speak when I'm asking questions, and |'I1 try
`
`not to interrupt you guys,
`
`|
`
`think it will be
`
`easier for all of us.
`
`Can we try to do that?
`
`A.
`
`|'m absolutely trying. Yes.
`
`MR. HAAG:
`
`Can you read the
`
`question back, please,
`
`(Reporter read back pending
`
`question)
`
`A.
`
`As
`
`| understand the question, what
`
`
`
`GregoryEdwards, LLC | Worldwide Court Reporting
`GregoryEdwards.com | 866-4Team GE
`
`
`
`Martin €, Rinard, Ph.D.
`
`- August 28, 2019
`
`09:
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`09:
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`09:
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`09:
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`09:
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`09;
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`Page 2/ 11
`
`you're asking is,
`
`| have two processors, and
`
`l've got the boot code for a second processor
`
`stored in memory associated with the first
`
`processor, and | believe that those systems did
`
`indeed exist prior to the ‘949 patent.
`
`Q.
`
`Would you agree that
`
`multiprocessor systems in which a primary
`
`processor uses nonvolatile memory to store a
`
`software image for a secondary processor
`
`existed in the prior art to the ‘949 patent?
`
`A.
`
`You're using terms primary
`
`processor and secondary processor that are tied
`
`to the patent more than to the field itself.
`
`Let me hear the question again, and I'Il give
`
`you an answer, and we'll go from there,
`
`if
`
`that's okay for you.
`
`MR. HAAG:
`
`I'm going to ask to
`
`have the question read back.
`
`(Reporter read back pending
`
`question)
`
`MR. NIGHTINGALE: Objection to
`
`form.
`
`
`
`GregoryEdwards, LLC | Worldwide Court Reporting
`GregoryEdwards.com | 866-4Team GE
`
`
`
`Martin C. Rinard, Ph.D.
`
`- August 28, 2019
`
`A,
`
`|
`
`think that's the same question
`
`as the previous question.
`
`| mean,
`
`it's true
`
`that there are systems where you have two
`
`processors where one processor is associated
`
`with a nonvolatile memory that stores the boot
`
`code for a second processor.
`
`Q.
`
`And my question used term the
`
`"software image.’ Were you using the term
`
`"boot code” to be an example of the software
`
`image?
`
`Form,
`
`MR. NIGHTINGALE: Objection.
`
`A.
`
`| had understood you to be asking
`
`about a boot
`
`image.
`
`!'m not saying in this
`
`context, unless you're making a distinction
`
`there, a big distinction between a software
`
`image and a boot
`
`image, as long as the boot
`
`image is actually booting the software for one
`
`of the processors.
`
`Q.
`
`Am | right a software image can
`
`include more than a boot
`
`image or are those two
`
`terms synonymous?
`
`
`Page 28 1]
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`GregoryEdwards, LLC | Worldwide Court Reporting
`GregoryEdwards.com | 866-4Team GE
`
`
`
`Martin C. Rinard, Ph.D.
`
`- August 28, 2019
`
`A,
`
`There that would depend very much
`
`on the context.
`
`So people would make
`
`distinctions in different contexts that they
`
`wouldn't make in others.
`
`[|
`
`think in the
`
`context of this patent, we're talking about
`
`code that's being used to boot another
`
`processor.
`
`Q.
`
`So are you saying that
`
`in the
`
`context of the '949 patent,
`
`a boot
`
`image and a
`
`software image are essentially synonymous?
`
`MR. NIGHTINGALE: Objection to
`
`form.
`
`A.
`
`Yeah,
`
`| don't think I'm putting
`
`forth --
`
`| mean,
`
`I'm not trying to be that
`
`precise with the terms here in answering your
`
`two questions that previously,
`
`|
`
`think,
`
`if we
`
`go to the claim, Claim 1, for example, you'll
`
`see executable software image,
`
`|
`
`think,
`
`in the
`
`context of Claim 1.
`
`Okay, yeah.
`
`If you look at the
`
`‘949 patent,
`
`it's all about giving a processor
`
`code that it can use to boot.
`
`
`Page 29 11
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`GregoryEdwards, LLC | Worldwide Court Reporting
`GregoryEdwards.com | 866-4Team GE
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`
`
`Martin C. Rinard, Ph.D.
`
`- August 28, 2019
`
`09:
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`Page 30 11
`
`Q.
`
`So are you saying in the context
`
`of the '949 patent, a software image and a boot
`
`code are essentially synonymous terms?
`
`MR. NIGHTINGALE: Objection to
`
`form.
`
`A.
`
`| wouldn't want to go that far,
`
`because there may be some distinctions,
`
`some
`
`fine distinctions between them.
`
`|
`
`think in
`
`this context what we're talking about
`
`is an
`
`executable software image, and if you read the
`
`patent, you'll! see that one of the ways they're
`
`using that executable software image is to
`
`provide the boot code for a processor.
`
`Q.
`
`|
`
`think when you looked at Claim
`
`1, you had mentioned the term “executable
`
`software image,” right?
`
`A.
`
`That term does,
`
`indeed, appear
`
`in
`
`Claim 1.
`
`image?
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`What's an executable software
`
`Are you looking for a definition
`
`in the context of the patent?
`
`
`
`GregoryEdwards, LLC | Worldwide Court Reporting
`GregoryEdwards.com | 866-4Team GE
`
`
`
`Martin C. Rinard, Ph.D.
`
`- August 28, 2019
`
`09:
`
`09:
`
`09:
`
`:48
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`09:
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`:50
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`09:
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`753
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`09:
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`09:
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`09:
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`09:
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`09:
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`134
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`09:
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`137
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`—_,
`
`>Wwhr
`
`11
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`Q.
`
`Sure.
`
`|'m looking for your
`
`understanding of the term.
`
`A.
`
`My understanding of the term?
`
`Well,
`
`I'd say it's code that's been compiled
`
`and, you know, there's an extensive disclosure
`
`of examples of executable software images
`
`in
`
`the patent itself. But typically it's code
`
`that's been compiled and it's going to
`
`eventually be executed.
`
`Q.
`
`What does the word "image" add to
`
`the meaning of an executable software image?
`
`MR. NIGHTINGALE: Objection to
`
`form.
`
`A.
`
`Okay.
`
`So there's a
`
`long history
`
`of that term, and |
`
`think it’s outside the
`
`context of the '949 patent that much of this
`
`history took place.
`
`The way -- way back in time, and |
`
`don't think this is actually -- you know,
`
`I'm
`
`not sure this is relevant to your question.
`
`If
`
`you could give me more --
`
`Q.
`
`|'m just wondering what you think
`
`Page 31
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`
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`GregoryEdwards, LLC | Worldwide Court Reporting
`GregoryEdwards.com | 866-4Team GE
`
`
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`
`
`Martin C. Rinard, Ph.D.
`
`- August 28, 2019
`
`“W
`
`the word
`
`"image" means
`
`in the phrase
`
`“executable software image’?
`
`MR. NIGHTINGALE:
`
`Same objection.
`
`A.
`
`|
`
`think it tends to talk about the
`
`fact that you've got to piece the software
`
`together,
`
`that you have -- executable software
`
`images
`
`is a term that people -- okay.
`
`People
`
`use the term "software image” or "image" to
`
`refer to --
`
`loosely, outside the context of
`
`this patent -- to software that's going to be
`
`used to execute,
`
`It's the compiled program,
`
`the compiled program that you put together and
`
`load it into the memory of the system for
`
`execution.
`
`You tend to refer to that for that
`
`kind of context, again loosely, as an image.
`
`Q.
`
`You said outside of the context of
`
`this patent?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Hmm-hmm.
`
`In the context of this patent,
`
`what
`
`is an image?
`
`MR. NIGHTINGALE: Objection to
`
`
`Page 32 11
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`GregoryEdwards, LLC | Worldwide Court Reporting
`GregoryEdwards.com | 866-4Team GE
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`Martin ©. Rinard, Ph.D.
`
`- August 28, 2019
`
`09:
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`09:
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`meWwNN
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`form.
`
`A.
`
`So let's go to patent.
`
`So what
`
`they say is, "Executable images are often" --
`
`|'m sorry, on Column 4 of the ‘949 patent,
`
`right around Row 36 where they're talking about
`
`executable images.
`
`If you go down,
`
`they say,
`
`"One example of a multi-segmented image format
`
`is the Executable and Linking Format
`
`(ELF) .”
`
`So one example of an executable
`
`software image are programs that are stored in
`
`this ELF format.
`
`The ELF format
`
`is typically
`
`used to sto
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