RIMFROST AS vs.
`AKER BIOMARINE ANTARCTIC AS
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`DR. NILS HOEM
`July 2, 2019
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`Original File 275544.txt
`Min-U-Script® with Word Index
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`RIMFROST EXHIBIT 1128 Page 0000
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`AKER BIOMARINE ANTARCTIC AS
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`DR. NILS HOEM
`July 2, 2019
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`Original File 275544.txt
`Min-U-Script® with Word Index
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`RIMFROST EXHIBIT 1128 Page 0000
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`1
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` 1 UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
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` 2 BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
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` 3 RIMFROST AS,
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` 4 Petitioner,
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` 5 -against-
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` 6 AKER BIOMARINE ANTARCTIC AS,
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` 7 Patent Owner.
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` 8 U.S. Patent No. 9,375,453 B1
` CASE NO. IPR2018-01178 and IPR2018-01179
` 9 ------------------------------------------------x
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`10
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`11 4 Century Drive
` Parsippany, New Jersey
`12
` July 2, 2019
`13 9:15 a.m.
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`14
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`15 Deposition of DR. NILS HOEM held
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`16 at the offices of HOFFMANN & BARON, LLP, before
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`17 Danielle Grant, a Notary Public of the States of
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`18 New York, New Jersey, and Delaware.
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`19
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`21
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`22
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`23 ELLEN GRAUER COURT REPORTING CO., LLC
` 126 East 56th Street, Fifth Floor
`24 New York, New York 10022
` 212-750-6434
`25 REF: 275544
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` 1 A P P E A R A N C E S:
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` 3 HOFFMANN & BARON, LLP
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` 4 Attorneys for Petitioner
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` 5 4 Century Drive
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` 6 Parsippany, New Jersey 07054-4606
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` 7 BY: MICHAEL I. CHAKANSKY, ESQ.
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` 8 973-331-1700
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` 9 mchakansky@hbiplaw.com
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`12 HOFFMANN & BARON, LLP
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`13 Attorneys for Petitioner
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`14 6900 Jericho Turnpike
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`15 Syosset, New York 11791-4407
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`16 BY: JAMES F. HARRINGTON, ESQ.
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`17 516-822-3550
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`18 jgallagher@hbiplaw.com
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` 1 A P P E A R A N C E S: (Cont'd)
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` 3 CASIMIR JONES, S.C.
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` 4 Attorneys for Patent Owner
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` 5 2275 Deming Way, Suite 310
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` 6 Middleton, Wisconsin 53562
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` 7 BY: J. MITCHELL JONES, ESQ.
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` 8 606-662-1277
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` 9 jmjones@casimirjones.com
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` 1 ------------------- I N D E X -------------------
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` 2 WITNESS EXAMINATION BY PAGE
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` 3 DR. NILS HOEM MR. CHAKANSKY 5, 252
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` 4 MR. JONES 251, 253
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` 5
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` 6
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` 7 ---------------- E X H I B I T S ----------------
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` 8 HOEM DESCRIPTION FOR I.D.
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` 9 Exhibit 2001 Declaration of Dr. Nils 6
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`10 Hoem in Support of Patent
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`11 Owner's Response and
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`12 Motion to Amend
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`13 Exhibit 2002 Article by Yamaguchi 71
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`16 (EXHIBITS RETAINED BY COUNSEL)
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` 1 DR. N I L S H O E M, called as a witness,
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` 2 having been first duly sworn by Danielle
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` 3 Grant, a Notary Public within and for
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` 4 the State of New Jersey, was examined
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` 5 and testified as follows:
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` 6
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` 7 EXAMINATION BY
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` 8 MR. CHAKANSKY:
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` 9 Q Good morning, Dr. Hoem?
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`10 A Good morning.
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`11 Q We are here for your
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`12 deposition in IPR numbers 2018-1178 and IPR
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`13 2018-1179, and that involves U.S. Patent No.
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`14 9,375,453 B2.
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`15 Dr. Hoem, we've done this a few
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`16 times in the past, and I think you're familiar
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`17 by now, is that correct, with how the
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`18 procedure works?
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`19 A Yes.
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`20 Q I'll ask you questions. I'll
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`21 expect a complete answer. If you don't
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`22 understand a question, you can ask me. From
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`23 time to time your attorney will object, but
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`24 you still have to answer, unless he directs
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`25 you not to answer.
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` 1 DR. NILS HOEM
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` 2 Is that understood?
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` 3 A Yes, it is.
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` 4 Q Is there anything today that
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` 5 would prevent you from giving full testimony?
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` 6 A No.
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` 7 (Whereupon, a Declaration of Dr. Nils
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` 8 Hoem in Support of Patent Owner's
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` 9 Response and Motion to Amend was marked
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`10 as Aker Exhibit No. 2001 for
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`11 identification, as of this date.)
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`12 Q Before you is Aker Exhibit
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`13 2001, the Declaration of Dr. Nils Hoem in
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`14 Support of Patent Owner's Response and Motion
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`15 to Amend.
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`16 Do you recognize that document?
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`17 A Yes, I do.
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`18 Q Okay. And is that your
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`19 declaration?
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`20 A Yes.
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`21 Q Could you, please, go to Page
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`22 94 of Exhibit 2001.
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`23 Is that your signature over
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`24 your name?
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`25 A Yes, it is.
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` 1 DR. NILS HOEM
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` 2 Q Dr. Hoem, you're currently the
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` 3 Chief Scienctist, Patent Owner at Aker
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` 4 BioMarine Antarctic AS; is that correct?
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` 5 A That's correct.
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` 6 Q And what are your duties as
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` 7 chief scientist?
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` 8 A Pretty much an oversight and
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` 9 overview of all science in the company,
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`10 that's everything from preclinical to
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`11 clinical science but also science or
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`12 technology that is important for your
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`13 production processes, both onshore but also
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`14 offshore including the boats. And then
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`15 biology, ecology, and everything that is
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`16 connected with our operations in Antarctica.
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`17 Q And do you oversee krill oil
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`18 extractions?
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`19 A Yes. I'm also involved in all
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`20 of these technical issues. I'm not part of
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`21 the day-to-day operations.
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`22 Q Okay. You observe krill oil
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`23 extraction personally?
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`24 A Yes, I do.
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`25 Q When did you first observe
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` 2 krill oil extractions?
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` 3 A Then we're back to early work
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` 4 on our -- back to early work on our
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` 5 productions and on our processes and -- in
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` 6 small scale, and then later on in medium
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` 7 scale and then -- I have been part of the
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` 8 group that has discussed, also our more
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` 9 recent technologies.
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`10 Q And when did that start?
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`11 A It started pretty much
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`12 immediately when I entered the company in
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`13 2008.
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`14 Q Okay. Before 2008, did you
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`15 have experience with krill oil extracts?
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`16 A No.
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`17 Q Before 2008, did you have
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`18 experience with lipid extraction?
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`19 A No.
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`20 Q Before 2008, did you have
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`21 experience with extraction?
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`22 A Yes, because in my -- I'm a
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`23 pharmacologist by training, and I have spent
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`24 a serious amount of time in fractionation of
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`25 certain proteins and enzymes and similar,
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` 1 DR. NILS HOEM
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` 2 which actually are extraction techniques, all
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` 3 of them.
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` 4 Q What type of technology do you
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` 5 use in the extraction techniques?
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` 6 A That was low pressure
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` 7 chromatography, and also everything from
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` 8 filtering to osmosis, to -- you use a wealth
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` 9 of different techniques to fractionate and
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`10 later on purify -- I'm sorry were you
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`11 finished?
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`12 A Yes.
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`13 Q Does fractionate mean to
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`14 concentrate?
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`15 A No, not necessarily.
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`16 Q Separate?
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`17 A It means to separate in
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`18 different fractions. If you have one
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`19 homogenous substance, then you don't need to
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`20 fractionate. If you have several different
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`21 substances, then you need to separate them to
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`22 know what you have.
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`23 Q These techniques, prior to
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`24 2008 with extraction, did they involve
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`25 techniques that were select and non-select?
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` 1 DR. NILS HOEM
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` 2 A You have to explain it to me,
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` 3 I'm not really understanding what you're
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` 4 asking there.
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` 5 Q Are you familiar with terms
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` 6 select and non-select --
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` 7 A Yes, I understand.
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` 8 Q -- in connection with
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` 9 Extration?
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`10 What is your understanding?
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`11 A A select extraction would be
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`12 that you're able to take out a very specific
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`13 part of your mixture and a non-select would
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`14 be the opposite. That's the way I understand
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`15 it.
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`16 Q What would a --
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`17 A It might be a group of
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`18 different substances of similar character,
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`19 and it might be a leftover. So if you take
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`20 out one part of your extract, then you might
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`21 be left with something that you may not know
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`22 exactly what is.
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`23 Q Okay. In your definition of
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`24 select extraction, when you do a select
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`25 extraction, do you just get one component or
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` 2 do you get several components from the
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` 3 original material?
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` 4 A You could -- let's say that I
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` 5 wanted in, within our framework, you wanted
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` 6 to take out all the neutral lipids, for
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` 7 example, that would be select as compared
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` 8 with polar lipids, but it's still a mixture
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` 9 of quite a few different substances.
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`10 Q So the actual compositions
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`11 that are extracted, the components that are
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`12 extracted, don't differentiate between
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`13 whether something is select or non-select; is
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`14 that correct?
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`15 A It differentiates between the
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`16 two large classes of polar versus nonpolar.
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`17 Q You're focusing rigth now on
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`18 statements in your declaration. I understand
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`19 it. I want to get to the foundation for your
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`20 use of the terminology of select and
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`21 non-select before 2008, and see how that
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`22 works.
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`23 For example, if you have a
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`24 starting mass, and you extract -- call it the
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`25 starting mass of feed, and you extract all --
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` 2 you don't extract a hundred percent of what is
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` 3 in the feed, have you done a select
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` 4 extraction?
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` 5 MR. JONES: I'm going to
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` 6 object, form.
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` 7 A To make up your mass balance
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` 8 and to know what you did, you would need to
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` 9 do a complete -- for example, if you wanted
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`10 to extract lipids, you would need the total
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`11 amount of lipids to calculate your total mass
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`12 balance.
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`13 Q Let's make it a hypothetical,
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`14 so we can focus in on it. The hypothetical
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`15 is, you have a feed, and you perform an
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`16 extraction on that feed such that you get an
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`17 extract and you have leftover residue?
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`18 A Yes.
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`19 Q And if you add the weight of
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`20 the extract and the weight of the residue,
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`21 it's 100 percent of the weight of the feed?
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`22 A Yes.
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`23 Q Have you done a select
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`24 extraction or a non-select extraction?
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`25 A If my objective was to account
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` 2 for the total amount of lipids, if that's
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` 3 what we're talking about then --
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` 4 Q No, lipids are not part --
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` 5 A Whatever it is, say substance
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` 6 A or substance group A -- now if I knew the
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` 7 total amount in my feed, and I could account
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` 8 for it, then I would say I had done -- in my
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` 9 understanding if I -- if I only -- if I only
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`10 took part of the whole, then I had done a
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`11 select -- then I would have done a select
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`12 extraction.
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`13 Q Okay.
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`14 A As long as I knew that's what
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`15 I was doing. I may have thought I had doing
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`16 a non-select, but I need to know the total to
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`17 know about it.
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`18 Q Okay. So in your definition,
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`19 is it correct, a select or non-select, a
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`20 select one is where you have identified some
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`21 components of the feed that you want to
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`22 extract, and that you only extract those
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`23 components?
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`24 A Yes, the only way know that is
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`25 to know the total --
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` 2 Q I'm telling you --
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` 3 A -- otherwise, I would think I
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` 4 had done a non-select extraction, while I --
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` 5 while I, in essence, had done a select
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` 6 extraction.
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` 7 Q Okay. You said you had
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` 8 another total. So let's say that -- we have
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` 9 a feed -- hypothetical. You're trying to
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`10 extract the component A, its in the feed, the
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`11 feed is made of A plus other things and you
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`12 perform your extraction, okay?
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`13 A Um-hmm.
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`14 Q And the weight -- you
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`15 determined the weight of what you extracted
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`16 of component A is less than the amount of
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`17 component A in the feed, is that a select?
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`18 Is that a non-select?
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`19 A I would say that is a select
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`20 extraction because there are leftovers. I
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`21 haven't done a complete extraction, that's
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`22 the word I would use or a total extraction.
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`23 Q Of component A?
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`24 A Well, that's the tricky part.
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`25 Because I would need to know, I would
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` 1 DR. NILS HOEM
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` 2 definitely have to analyze what's left and
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` 3 the mass balance would have to match.
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` 4 Otherwise, I wouldn't know if I had a
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` 5 complete extraction.
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` 6 Q As part of the hypothetical,
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` 7 you were given the balance and you said that
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` 8 not all of it was extracted?
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` 9 A Yes.
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`10 Q But it seems to be you can
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`11 define select and non-select by identifying a
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`12 group of components or one component that you
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`13 want to extract?
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`14 A Yeah.
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`15 Q Okay. So what is the value of
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`16 select and non-select in analyzing extraction
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`17 practices, with respect to things before
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`18 2008?
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`19 A First of all, you need that to
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`20 be able to do your mass balance. You need to
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`21 know this to be able to know exactly, you
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`22 know, your starting material, your different
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`23 fractions of your red material, and they need
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`24 to add up. If you do the sums of all of
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`25 this, then you should be able to account for
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` 2 what you had in your original feed.
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` 3 Q How does select and non-select
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` 4 work in categorizing or describing the
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` 5 extraction, when you know all the total
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` 6 amounts?
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` 7 A First of all, in what I call
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` 8 select, I would define, you know, the object
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` 9 of the select. There is no such thing as an
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`10 a priori select. You need to know how you
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`11 define that.
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`12 So for example, if I had polar
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`13 lipids, and I could say that if I extract only
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`14 polar lipids, that's a select extraction for
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`15 polar lipids. If I only wanted to extract
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`16 neutral lipids, then I could say I have a
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`17 select extraction for neutral lipids. But I
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`18 could, you know, I could further broaden this
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`19 one. For example, I could say I want
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`20 triglycerides or I want free fatty acids,
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`21 which are subgroups of things. Again, it
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`22 depend on my definition.
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`23 Q It all depends on your
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`24 definition --
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`25 A Always.
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` 2 Q -- and if someone came up with
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` 3 a different definition, what is encompassed
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` 4 by non-select and select to differ?
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` 5 A So long as the different
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` 6 definitions fulfills the criteria of total
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` 7 mass balance then I'm okay with it. But
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` 8 total -- without mass balance you -- then you
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` 9 may -- then you cannot really state that you
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`10 have selected a specific group, and the
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`11 amount or -- and the -- because then the
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`12 residual might contain what you claim was a
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`13 select extraction.
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`14 Q So you can only determine
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`15 whether something is select or non-select
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`16 extraction after you do your mass balance?
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`17 A Yes. You may devise your
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`18 method based on physical, chemical
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`19 properties, and that's what you. Do but you
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`20 can only verify this by your mass balance.
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`21 Q And if somebody says, I want
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`22 to select the extraction for triglycerides
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`23 and they do their extraction and they get all
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`24 the triglycerides out, they do their mass
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`25 balance. They measured the amount of the
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` 2 triglycerides in the --
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` 3 A You could do a select
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` 4 extraction of triglycerides, so what you have
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` 5 is only triglycerides. Okay? But it still
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` 6 may not be complete.
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` 7 Q If it's not complete, does it
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` 8 change it from select to non-select?
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` 9 A No, not my understanding. It
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`10 needs to be complete and select.
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`11 Q Okay. So if you can specify
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`12 that you want to select for components A, B,
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`13 C, and you get some portion of the A, B, C in
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`14 your extract, you've done a select
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`15 extraction? You've done the mass
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`16 calculations?
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`17 A As long as I know, yes, I've
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`18 done the mass calculation. I would certainly
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`19 have to do the mass balance, and it will to
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`20 have match. If my mass balance doesn't
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`21 match, then I'm left without knowing.
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`22 Q How would it not match?
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`23 A There are many, you know --
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`24 for example, let's go for the polar lipids
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`25 for example. You have, let's say, seven,
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` 2 eight types of polar lipids, and you analyze
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` 3 for the polar lipids. Now, if you -- broadly
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` 4 you can only divide lipids into neutral
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` 5 lipids or polar lipids. There's no in
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` 6 between. They're either polar or non-polar.
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` 7 Q That's by definition?
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` 8 A That's by definition and they
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` 9 have physical chemical properties that are
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`10 different and that's exactly why they are
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`11 different.
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`12 Q And polar lipids have similar
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`13 characteristics and properties, that's why
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`14 they're called polar?
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`15 A Well, they may be very
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`16 different in other aspects, but they share
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`17 certain physical, chemical properties.
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`18 Q Including solubility in polar
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`19 products?
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`20 A Including solubility, yes.
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`21 Q Do you have any reference or
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`22 can you refer us to any reference, that
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`23 refers to select versus non-select in the
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`24 context of extraction?
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`25 A No, I can't.
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` 2 Q Have you ever seen in a
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` 3 textbook on extraction the terms non-select
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` 4 and select?
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` 5 A I can't answer that question.
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` 6 Q Why can't you answer that
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` 7 question?
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` 8 A No, because I can't remember
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` 9 simply.
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`10 Q You can't remember?
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`11 A No.
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`12 Q Okay.
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`13 A This becomes a question of
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`14 terminology.
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`15 Q Well, as you are aware, it's
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`16 very important terminology?
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`17 A Sure.
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`18 Q And I'm trying to see the
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`19 genesis of it. As far as you can remember,
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`20 you can't remember any textbook. Can you
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`21 remember any publication talking about select
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`22 versus non-select in the context of
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`23 extraction?
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`24 A No, I cannot.
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`25 By the way, I would use
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` 1 DR. NILS HOEM
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` 2 selected rather select.
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` 3 Q I'll rephrase the question.
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` 4 Are you aware of any
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` 5 publications --
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` 6 A No.
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` 7 Q -- textbooks, going between
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` 8 nonselective and selective --
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` 9 A Using the exact phrase, no.
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`10 Q Using the terms?
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`11 A In practicalities when you
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`12 describe how you do fractionations
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`13 definitely.
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`14 Q And where is this published?
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`15 A I can't point to anything
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`16 specific. But if you go to any textbook, for
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`17 example -- yeah. If you take -- I'll give
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`18 you one example, and I can't give you the
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`19 references. But there are a number of early
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`20 papers that did extractions of lipids for
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`21 physiology or in hystology. For example, in
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`22 order to do brain extracts or extracts of
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`23 lipids in living -- not in living but
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`24 biological specimens, then a number of
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`25 methods were devised, whereby you changed the
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`RIMFROST EXHIBIT 1128 Page 0021
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`22
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` 1 DR. NILS HOEM
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` 2 physical chemical properties of you're -- of
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` 3 your extractant or you're -- yeah, your
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` 4 extractant, in such ways that you selected
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` 5 different groups and different classes of
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` 6 lipids.
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` 7 For example, the most broadly
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` 8 derivation was the non-polar versus the
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` 9 polars. But you also extracted other classes
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`10 like the sterols in a separate fraction. And
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`11 then what you did was you had a base solvent
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`12 and then you added, for example, different
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`13 amounts of another product solvent to change
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`14 the polarity of your medium, and then you
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`15 would get several fractions. And this was
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`16 very precisely described, if we start at about
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`17 the 1900s and onwards, there was a number of
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`18 publications in that time period. That's how
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`19 we learned exactly how the lipids in our brain
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`20 are composed.
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`21 Q That really doesn't answer the
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`22 question or address the question of whether
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`23 or not there are any publications or
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`24 textbooks that discuss this difference
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`25 between selective and nonselective?
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`RIMFROST EXHIBIT 1128 Page 0022
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`23
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` 1 DR. NILS HOEM
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` 2 A No --
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` 3 MR. JONES: Objection. Asked
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` 4 and answered.
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` 5 Q You can --
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` 6 A I would tend to disagree.
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` 7 Q Can you refer us to any?
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` 8 A I can refer you to those
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` 9 papers that I mentioned.
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`10 Q Can you give me a name of a
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`11 paper --
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`12 A No. I said I can't recall
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`13 that.
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`14 Q Okay.
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`15 A But there is a large
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`16 literature on exactly what it is, and the
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`17 same methods were adopted for general lipid
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`18 extractions later on. And actually, if you
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`19 knew about the methods that were used in
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`20 hystology way back -- because they were
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`21 forgotten -- then you would recognize the
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`22 same technique later on for industrial
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`23 purposes.
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`24 Q Okay. But, Dr. Hoem, you're
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`25 talking about techniques, you're talking
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`RIMFROST EXHIBIT 1128 Page 0023
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`24
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` 1 DR. NILS HOEM
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` 2 about extraction methods, but what I'm asking
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` 3 you about is characterizing them -- whether
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` 4 the literature characterizes between
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` 5 selective and nonselective and I think I'll
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` 6 just --
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` 7 A They may not have used that
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` 8 word. But when they describe is exactly --
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` 9 is exactly how you achieve your goal of
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`10 having a certain type of lipid in a certain
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`11 fraction.
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`12 Q Dr. Hoem, have you published
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`13 in the lipid area?
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`14 A I've published in -- when I've
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`15 been Aker then I have published in the lipid
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`16 area.
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`17 Q And have you published in the
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`18 extraction area?
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`19 A I would have to think if I
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`20 published in the extraction area. That would
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`21 have to be when working with Aker, that's
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`22 clear.
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`23 Certain publications that --
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`24 that touches on how you analyze the different
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`25 components of krill oil, and some of that work
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`RIMFROST EXHIBIT 1128 Page 0024
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`25
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` 1 DR. NILS HOEM
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` 2 rests on fractionation of lipids. So I would
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` 3 say if you -- if you say industrial, no. For
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` 4 analytical purposes, yes.
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` 5 Q Okay. In any of those papers
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` 6 that involve extraction, did you characterize
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` 7 the extraction method as selective or
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` 8 nonselective, using the term selective or
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` 9 nonselective?
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`10 MR. JONES: Objection.
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`11 Assumes facts not in evidence.
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`12 A In general the methods
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`13 describe what you do. And if you use that
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`14 word or another word, if you happen to use
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`15 selective or not is really -- it is obvious
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`16 what you do and it's described. If I call it
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`17 selective and it wasn't, that wouldn't have
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`18 any meaning either. It is what you do that
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`19 matters.
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`20 Q All right. Getting to your
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`21 declaration on Page 5 you talk about your
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`22 qualifications, Paragraph 5, if I can direct
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`23 you.
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`24 A Yep.
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`25 Q You say -- that talks about
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`RIMFROST EXHIBIT 1128 Page 0025
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`26
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` 1 DR. NILS HOEM
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` 2 your qualifications, insofar as you being
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` 3 chief scientist at Aker BioMarine AS, et
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` 4 cetera, we've talked about some of it.
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` 5 Paragraph 6 says, that you were
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` 6 compensated by your normal salary for Aker
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` 7 BioMarine AS, and that you're compensation is
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` 8 not contingent on the conclusions that I reach
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` 9 in my expert report; is that correct?
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`10 A Yes, it is.
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`11 Q Have you submitted
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`12 declarations on behalf of Aker BioMarine in
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`13 other proceedings that are not the IPRs that
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`14 we have been dealing with, and that you have
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`15 been deposed on?
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`16 A To the best of my knowledge,
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`17 no.
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`18 Q Let me see if I can refresh
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`19 your memory.
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`20 I want to show you what's
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`21 marked at Rimfrost 1121 and it's the -- a
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`22 declaration of Dr. Nils Hoem in Support of
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`23 Request for Inter Partes Examination of U.S.
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`24 Patent Number 8,057,825 --
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`25 A Um-hmm.
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`RIMFROST EXHIBIT 1128 Page 0026
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`27
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` 1 DR. NILS HOEM
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` 2 Q -- and that was in case number
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` 3 95/001819?
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` 4 A Um-hmm.
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` 5 Q Okay. And I ask you to take a
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` 6 quick look at it and see if it refreshes your
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` 7 recollection as to whether or not you
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` 8 submitted a Declaration in another
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` 9 proceeding not the ones --
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`10 A I need to correct myself. I
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`11 thought that you were asking in these
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`12 proceedings, and I didn't -- I know that I
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`13 have, of course, issued this previously. But
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`14 I thought you meant these proceedings and not
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`15 any proceeding that we've had at Aker
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`16 BioMarine AS. I'm sorry about that.
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`17 Q No problem. That's why we
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`18 have the document. Let me go -- do you
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`19 recognize it?
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`20 A Yes, I do.
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`21 Q I ask you to take a look at
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`22 Page 3 of 1121, and ask if that's your
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`23 signature there?
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`24 A Yes, it is.
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`25 Q And you are representing Aker
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`RIMFROST EXHIBIT 1128 Page 0027
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`28
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` 1 DR. NILS HOEM
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` 2 in connection with that declaration; is that
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` 3 correct?
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` 4 A Yes.
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` 5 Q And in that case, in that
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` 6 Inter Partes Reexamination, Aker was
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` 7 requesting about a Neptune patent be
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` 8 invalidated, do you recall that?
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` 9 A Yes.
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`10 Q Okay. And I would like to
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`11 direct your attention to Page 2 of that
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`12 declaration, and Paragraph 4, maybe you want
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`13 to read it first to yourself?
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`14 A Yeah I would like to do that.
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`15 Yes.
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`16 Q I know I directed your
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`17 attention to Paragraph 4, if there's any
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`18 other paragraph you would like to refer to
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`19 please do so?
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`20 A I would like to read Paragraph
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`21 3.
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`22 Okay.
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`23 Q Okay.
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`24 With respect to Paragraph 4 you
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`25 state, "Lipid extracts from krill have common
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`RIMFROST EXHIBIT 1128 Page 0028
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`29
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` 1 DR. NILS HOEM
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` 2 characteristics," closed quote.
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` 3 Do you see that?
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` 4 A Yes.
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` 5 Q Is that correct?
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` 6 A Yes. It's not a very -- it's
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` 7 not a very sharp definition, but, yes, in
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` 8 common language that is --
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` 9 Q And that's the representation
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`10 you made to the patent office, correct?
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`11 A Yes.
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`12 Q The next sentence is quote,
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`13 this is demonstrated by the fact that the
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`14 different extraction protocols employed in
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`15 WO, capital W, capital O, space 00/23546
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`16 paren Tables 14-18 close paren, Fricke,
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`17 F-R-I-C-K-E, et al. Paren Tables 2-6 close
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`18 paren, and Gordeev, G-O-R-D-E-E-V, paren
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`19 Table 1 close paren, all produce lipid
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`20 fractions containing phosphatidylcholine and
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`21 phosphatidylethanolamine as well as other
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`22 phospholipid species, docosahexaenoic acid
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`23 paren I mean comma
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`24 A Eicosahexaenoic acid.
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`25 Q Thank you, I was trying to
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`RIMFROST EXHIBIT 1128 Page 0029
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`30
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` 1 DR. NILS HOEM
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` 2 save you. -- and oleic acids as well as many
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` 3 other fatty acids period, closed quote.
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` 4 And that is the statement that
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` 5 is in your declaration, and that is what you
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` 6 said to the patent office in connection with
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` 7 this inter partes reexamination; is that
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` 8 correct?
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` 9 A Yes.
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`10 Q Do you recall the different
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`11 extraction protocols at this point?
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`12 A Generally speaking, they
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`13 are -- all of the protocols either continuous
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`14 mixtures of a -- of a non-protic solvent and
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`15 mixed up with a protic solvent of some kind,
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`16 that would be acetone or ethanol, for
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`17 example.
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`18
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