HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL
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`Page 1
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` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
` KRANOS CORPORATION
`
` d/b/a Schutt Sports
`
` Petitioner,
`
` v.
`
` RIDDELL, INC.
`
` Patent Owner
`
` Case No. IPR2016-01649
`
` Patent No. 8,813,269
`
` Case No. IPR2016-01646
`
` Patent No. 8,528,118
`
` Case No. IPR2016-01650
`
` Patent No. 8,938,818
`
` The deposition of NICHOLAS SHEWCHENKO, P.Eng.,
`
` taken before Maria S. Winn, CSR, RPR and CRR,
`
` taken pursuant to the applicable rules of Civil
`
` Procedure for the United States District Courts
`
` pertaining to the taking of depositions, at
`
` Greenberg Traurig, 77 West Wacker Drive,
`
` Suite 3100, Chicago, Illinois, commencing at
`
` 9:32 a.m. on August 10, 2017.
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`www.veritext.com
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`888-391-3376
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`Veritext Legal Solutions
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`Kranos Exhibit 1033, Page 1
`Kranos Corp. v. Riddell, Inc., IPR2016-01650
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`Kranos IP Exhibit 2002, Page 1 of 192
`Riddell, Inc. v. Kranos IP II Corp., IPR2018-01164
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`
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`Page 1
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` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
` KRANOS CORPORATION
`
` d/b/a Schutt Sports
`
` Petitioner,
`
` v.
`
` RIDDELL, INC.
`
` Patent Owner
`
` Case No. IPR2016-01649
`
` Patent No. 8,813,269
`
` Case No. IPR2016-01646
`
` Patent No. 8,528,118
`
` Case No. IPR2016-01650
`
` Patent No. 8,938,818
`
` The deposition of NICHOLAS SHEWCHENKO, P.Eng.,
`
` taken before Maria S. Winn, CSR, RPR and CRR,
`
` taken pursuant to the applicable rules of Civil
`
` Procedure for the United States District Courts
`
` pertaining to the taking of depositions, at
`
` Greenberg Traurig, 77 West Wacker Drive,
`
` Suite 3100, Chicago, Illinois, commencing at
`
` 9:32 a.m. on August 10, 2017.
`
`www.veritext.com
`
`888-391-3376
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
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`Kranos Exhibit 1033, Page 1
`Kranos Corp. v. Riddell, Inc., IPR2016-01650
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`Kranos IP Exhibit 2002, Page 1 of 192
`Riddell, Inc. v. Kranos IP II Corp., IPR2018-01164
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`
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`HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL
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`Page 2
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` PRESENT:
`
` GREENBERG TRAURIG, LLP
`
` By MR. JAMES J. LUKAS, JR.
`
` 77 West Wacker Drive - Suite 3100
`
` Chicago, Illinois 60601
`
` (312) 456-8400
`
` lukasj@gtlaw.com
`
` appeared on behalf of the Petitioner;
`
` McANDREWS, HELD & MALLOY, LTD.
`
` By MR. CHRISTOPHER M. SCHARFF and
`
` MR. RONALD HANK SPUHLER
`
` 500 West Madison Street - Suite 3400
`
` Chicago, Illinois 60661
`
` (312) 775-8000
`
` cscharff@mcandrews-ip.com
`
` rspuhler@mcandrews-ip.com
`
` appeared on behalf of the Patent Owner.
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`Veritext Legal Solutions
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`Kranos Exhibit 1033, Page 2
`Kranos Corp. v. Riddell, Inc., IPR2016-01650
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`Kranos IP Exhibit 2002, Page 2 of 192
`Riddell, Inc. v. Kranos IP II Corp., IPR2018-01164
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`
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`HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL
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`Page 3
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` I N D E X
` WITNESS: PAGE:
` NICHOLAS SHEWCHENKO
` Examination by Mr. Lukas 5
` Examination by Mr. Scharff 152
` Further Examination by Mr. Lukas 154
` Further Examination by Mr. Scharff 155
`
` EXHIBIT DESCRIPTION PAGE
` Exhibit 1019 Paper 8 43
` Exhibit 1020 Chapter 7 from Book 46
` Exhibit 1021 2007 Book by Dr. Newman 50
` Exhibit 1022 Board's Institution Decision 89
` Exhibit 1023 Proposal to the National 90
` Football League to Conduct
` Concussion Research
` Exhibit 1024 RID 923 through 942, Helmet 97
` Proposal
`
` Exhibit 1025 RI-BIO 4755 through 4756 101
`
` Exhibit 1026 Collection of Articles 105
` Authored by Mr. Shewchenko
` Exhibit 1027 Article, "Conclusion in 106
` Professional Football: Helmet
` Testing to Assist Impact
` Performance, Part 11"
`
` Exhibit 1028 Paper Describing the 109
` Performance of New Generation
` Football Helmets
`
` Exhibit 1029 Hand-drawn diagram 150
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`Kranos Exhibit 1033, Page 3
`Kranos Corp. v. Riddell, Inc., IPR2016-01650
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`Kranos IP Exhibit 2002, Page 3 of 192
`Riddell, Inc. v. Kranos IP II Corp., IPR2018-01164
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`HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL
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`Page 4
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` I N D E X ( C o n t ' d )
`
` P R E V I O U S L Y M A R K E D E X H I B I T S R E F E R R E D T O :
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` E X H I B I T P A G E L I N E
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`E x h i b i t 1 0 0 1 2 8 1 9
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`E x h i b i t 1 0 0 4 7 1 1
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`E x h i b i t 1 0 0 5 8 4 9
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`E x h i b i t 1 0 0 6 7 5 1 9
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`E x h i b i t 1 0 0 7 6 5 2 3
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`E x h i b i t 1 0 0 8 1 1 8 1 0
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`E x h i b i t 1 0 2 3 8 3 1
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`E x h i b i t 2 0 0 5 6 2 1
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` ( E x h i b i t 1 0 0 8 w a s r e t a i n e d b y c o u n s e l . )
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`Veritext Legal Solutions
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`Kranos Exhibit 1033, Page 4
`Kranos Corp. v. Riddell, Inc., IPR2016-01650
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`Kranos IP Exhibit 2002, Page 4 of 192
`Riddell, Inc. v. Kranos IP II Corp., IPR2018-01164
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`
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`HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL
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`Page 5
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` NICHOLAS SHEWCHENKO,
`
` having been first duly sworn, was examined and
`
` testified as follows:
`
` EXAMINATION
`
` BY MR. LUKAS:
`
` Q Okay. Good morning, Mr. Shewchenko. Is
`
` that how you say it?
`
` A Shewchenko. That's pretty good.
`
` Q Okay. My name is James Lukas. I
`
` represent Kranos Corporation, d/b/a Schutt Sports.
`
` You understand you're here pursuant to
`
` notices of deposition regarding -- I'll just kind
`
` of list the IPR numbers for the record.
`
` IPR 2016-1646, 2016-1650, and IPR
`
` 2016-1649.
`
` A Okay.
`
` Q You understand you're here pursuant to a
`
` notice of deposition regarding those IPRs?
`
` A Yes. My understanding was 0648, 49, and
`
` 50.
`
` Q 646, 650 -- 1650 and 1649.
`
` A Okay.
`
` Q They relate -- and just to be clear, they
`
` relate to the U.S. Patent Number 8,528,118.
`
` A Um-hm.
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`Kranos Exhibit 1033, Page 5
`Kranos Corp. v. Riddell, Inc., IPR2016-01650
`
`Kranos IP Exhibit 2002, Page 5 of 192
`Riddell, Inc. v. Kranos IP II Corp., IPR2018-01164
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`
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`HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL
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`Page 6
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` Q U.S. Patent Number 8,938,818 and
`
` U.S. Patent Number 8,813,269.
`
` A Um-hm.
`
` Q When I speak about the patents -- I'll
`
` speak about them, but just the last three numbers.
`
` When I say '118 patent, you realize I'm referring
`
` to the U.S. Patent Number 8,528,118?
`
` A Okay.
`
` Q Great. Thank you.
`
` (Discussion off the record.)
`
` MR. LUKAS: Do you want to introduce
`
` yourself for the record?
`
` MR. SCHARFF: Christopher Scharff for
`
` patent owner Riddell.
`
` MR. SPUHLER: And Hank Spuhler, also for
`
` patent owner Riddell.
`
` BY MR. LUKAS:
`
` Q Okay. I'm going to start -- we're going
`
` to start talking mostly about the '118 patent and
`
` the '818 patent.
`
` (Document previously marked as
`
` Exhibit No. 2005 for
`
` identification)
`
` BY MR. LUKAS:
`
` Q I'm going to hand you your declaration
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`Kranos Exhibit 1033, Page 6
`Kranos Corp. v. Riddell, Inc., IPR2016-01650
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`Kranos IP Exhibit 2002, Page 6 of 192
`Riddell, Inc. v. Kranos IP II Corp., IPR2018-01164
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`
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`HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL
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`Page 7
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` regarding those two patents.
`
` And that's Exhibit 2005. And I think
`
` generally, I'm going to be referring to the
`
` exhibits from the '118 patent IPR, that being
`
` 2016-1646. If not, I'll let you know.
`
` But do you recognize this document?
`
` A Yes, I do.
`
` Q Okay. And what is it?
`
` A It is my declaration on the '118 and '818
`
` patents.
`
` Q Okay. And if I could direct you to the
`
` last page of Exhibit 2005.
`
` A (Witness complies.)
`
` Q At 41, is that your signature?
`
` A Yes, it is.
`
` Q Okay. And when you signed that, you
`
` realize you signed that under penalties of
`
` perjury?
`
` A Yes, I do.
`
` Q Okay. Can you summarize the conclusions
`
` of your expert report on the '818 and the '118
`
` patent?
`
` MR. SCHARFF: Objection, form.
`
` Go ahead. You can still answer the
`
` question. I was just making my objection for
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`Kranos Exhibit 1033, Page 7
`Kranos Corp. v. Riddell, Inc., IPR2016-01650
`
`Kranos IP Exhibit 2002, Page 7 of 192
`Riddell, Inc. v. Kranos IP II Corp., IPR2018-01164
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`
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`HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL
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`Page 8
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` the record. I hadn't mentioned that to you.
`
` A Yeah. The general summary was lack of
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` anticipation and obviousness, based on a number of
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` different elements, including the raised central
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` band, the vent holes, the wall's shell thickness,
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` and a series of other minor details.
`
` BY MR. LUKAS:
`
` Q Okay.
`
` A But I will not recite all the claim
`
` numbers for you.
`
` Q That's fine.
`
` But if I could just direct to you
`
` page 40.
`
` A (Witness complies.)
`
` Q At paragraph 89, you agree that your -- a
`
` summary of your opinions is that the instituted
`
` claims would not have been anticipated or obvious
`
` based on the instituted grounds?
`
` A Correct.
`
` Q Okay. I'm going to look a little bit at
`
` your CV, which follows page -- it looks like it's
`
` 43 of Exhibit 2005.
`
` Do you see that?
`
` A Yes.
`
` Q Okay. That's your up-to-date CV?
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`Kranos Exhibit 1033, Page 8
`Kranos Corp. v. Riddell, Inc., IPR2016-01650
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`Kranos IP Exhibit 2002, Page 8 of 192
`Riddell, Inc. v. Kranos IP II Corp., IPR2018-01164
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`
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`HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL
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`Page 9
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` A It is up to date as of May 2017.
`
` Q Okay. It's correct that you -- since
`
` 1984, you've been employed by Biokinetics &
`
` Associates?
`
` A That is correct.
`
` Q And since 2002, you've been the president
`
` of Biokinetics & Associates?
`
` A That's correct.
`
` Q Okay. When we refer to Biokinetics &
`
` Associates, we can just refer to Biokinetics?
`
` A Biokinetics, that's fine.
`
` Q What is your, I guess -- are you a
`
` partner or an owner in Biokinetics?
`
` A I am a shareholder in Biokinetics.
`
` Q Okay. And how many shareholders are
`
` there?
`
` A There are seven shareholders.
`
` Q Seven shareholders. Okay.
`
` Can you tell me who the other
`
` shareholders are?
`
` A They are the principals. There's Chris
`
` Withnall, Ed Fournier, Cheryl Christy, Benoit
`
` Anctil, and Ed Fournier.
`
` (Discussion off the record.)
`
` THE WITNESS: I'll go through the
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`Veritext Legal Solutions
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`Kranos Exhibit 1033, Page 9
`Kranos Corp. v. Riddell, Inc., IPR2016-01650
`
`Kranos IP Exhibit 2002, Page 9 of 192
`Riddell, Inc. v. Kranos IP II Corp., IPR2018-01164
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`
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`HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL
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`Page 10
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` list again.
`
` Chris Withnall, Cheryl Christy, Ed
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` Fournier, Doug Baines, there is me, Benoit
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` Anctil, and that's it. Six.
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`?
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`.
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` BY MR. LUKAS:
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`?
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` Q Okay. Is it safe to say that your only
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` post, I guess, graduate experience has been with
`
` Biokinetics?
`
` A Yes. I joined Biokinetics upon
`
` graduation.
`
` Q Okay. I just kind of want to look at
`
` some of your publications.
`
` So I'm at your CV of Exhibit 2005. And I
`
` think I've kind of highlighted, but I kind of --
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` I'm at page 45.
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`Kranos Exhibit 1033, Page 10
`Kranos Corp. v. Riddell, Inc., IPR2016-01650
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`Kranos IP Exhibit 2002, Page 10 of 192
`Riddell, Inc. v. Kranos IP II Corp., IPR2018-01164
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`
`
`HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL
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`Page 11
`
` Can we go through all the articles you've
`
` authored related to, I guess, American football?
`
` And does it start at Article Number 11?
`
` A Article 9, actually, relates to work that
`
` we did for the football league.
`
` Q It does? Okay. I missed that. Thank
`
` you.
`
` A It's not obvious from the title.
`
` Q Okay. So let's talk about that first.
`
` And what is MTBI?
`
` A The MTBI is mild traumatic brain injury.
`
` It's essentially another term for a concussion.
`
` Q Okay. And so this article, Number 9 in
`
` your CV, is authored with Mr. Withnall, who's also
`
` with Biokinetics?
`
` A That is correct.
`
` Q Okay. And was this -- actually, strike
`
` that.
`
` Did you do certain testing to write this
`
` article?
`
` A The article, or the publication, is a
`
` paper that was presented at a technical
`
` conference.
`
` Q Okay.
`
` A So I helped write the paper and verbally
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`Kranos Exhibit 1033, Page 11
`Kranos Corp. v. Riddell, Inc., IPR2016-01650
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`Kranos IP Exhibit 2002, Page 11 of 192
`Riddell, Inc. v. Kranos IP II Corp., IPR2018-01164
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`
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`HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL
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`Page 12
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` presented this to the conference group.
`
` Q Okay. Was the presentation sponsored by
`
` any group or entity?
`
` A No, it is not. It's Biokinetics.
`
` Q Okay. And then if we could go on to the
`
` next article about relating to American football.
`
` A Sure.
`
` Q Is it Number 11?
`
` A So Paper 11 is another paper related to
`
` the research that we did for the National Football
`
` League regarding concussion assessments.
`
` Q Okay. And so is it accurate the NFL
`
` sponsored that research?
`
` A Yes. They sponsored several papers that
`
` you'll see down the list.
`
` Q Okay. Did Riddell sponsor any of that
`
` research for Number 11?
`
` A No, Riddell did not.
`
` Q Okay. And who is John -- Mr. Viano?
`
` A Mr. Viano and Mr. Pelman were part of the
`
` neck and spine injury committee at the National
`
` Football League who oversaw the medical aspects to
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` concussion.
`
` Q Okay. They worked for the NFL?
`
` A Correct.
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`Kranos Exhibit 1033, Page 12
`Kranos Corp. v. Riddell, Inc., IPR2016-01650
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`Kranos IP Exhibit 2002, Page 12 of 192
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`HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL
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`Page 13
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` Q And then if we could go down to Article
`
` Number 12 of your CV at page 45.
`
` A (Witness complies.)
`
` Q Is that another article about American
`
` football, related to American football?
`
` A Yes. It's related to helmet performance
`
` in American football.
`
` Q Okay. And did any entity or group
`
` sponsor the research?
`
` A National Football League.
`
` Q NFL? Okay.
`
` Did Riddell sponsor a research related to
`
` that article?
`
` A No, they did not.
`
` Q Okay. And who is Mr. Bir?
`
` A Cynthia Bir is a research scientist at
`
` Wayne State University at that time.
`
` Q So it's Ms. Bir?
`
` A Yes.
`
` Q I apologize for that.
`
` And then it's Mr. Halstead?
`
` A Yes. David Halstead runs Southern Impact
`
` Research, who regularly conducts football helmet
`
` reconditioning and certifications.
`
` Q Got you. And he is actually a named
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`HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL
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`Page 14
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` inventor on one of the patents that you opined on?
`
` A Yes, correct.
`
` Q Okay. So if we -- if we skip down, is 18
`
` the next article you've authored relating to
`
` American football?
`
` A Yes, 18 would be.
`
` Q Okay. And who -- excuse me.
`
` Did any entity or group sponsor the
`
` research related to that article?
`
` A This would be the National Football
`
` League as well.
`
` Q Did Riddell sponsor any of the research
`
` related to that article?
`
` A No, they did not.
`
` Q And who is Mr. Newman?
`
` A Mr. Newman was the original founder of
`
` Biokinetics.
`
` Q All right.
`
` A And Mr. Beusenberg is also an employee of
`
` Biokinetics.
`
` Q And back at page 45 of your CV, if you go
`
` down further, is the Article Number 25 the next
`
` article relating to American football?
`
` A Yes. 25 would be the next paper.
`
` Q And did any entity or group sponsor the
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`Kranos Exhibit 1033, Page 14
`Kranos Corp. v. Riddell, Inc., IPR2016-01650
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`Kranos IP Exhibit 2002, Page 14 of 192
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`HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL
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`Page 15
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` research related to that article?
`
` A This would be the National Football
`
` League, again.
`
` Q Okay. Did Riddell sponsor any research
`
` related to that article?
`
` A No, they did not.
`
` Q Okay. And then further down, is 28 the
`
` next article related to American football?
`
` A No. Paper 26 would be the next article.
`
` Q Okay. Just making sure. I noticed you
`
` have a lot of them that say football, and I know
`
` there's English football as well, you know. Okay.
`
` So...
`
` A European football.
`
` Q European football, I should say. World
`
` football.
`
` Okay. So that's in 2002. Paper 26 is
`
` related to American football.
`
` Did any entity or group sponsor the
`
` research related to that article?
`
` A The National Football League.
`
` Q Okay. Did Riddell sponsor any research
`
` related to that article?
`
` A No.
`
` Q And I believe all the authors there are
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`Kranos Corp. v. Riddell, Inc., IPR2016-01650
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`Page 16
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` Biokinetics employees?
`
` A Yes.
`
` Q Okay, all right.
`
` And is 28 the next article relating to
`
` American football?
`
` A No. Article 27 is related.
`
` Q All right. And did any entity or group
`
` sponsor the research related to that article?
`
` A Yes. The National Football League
`
` sponsored the research that was presented.
`
` Q Okay. Did Riddell sponsor any of the
`
` research related to that article?
`
` A No.
`
` Q And then if we go on to 28, is that
`
` related to American football?
`
` A Yes, it is.
`
` Q Okay.
`
` A National Football League.
`
` Q The NFL sponsored the research related to
`
` that article, 28?
`
` A Correct.
`
` Q I just want to go back to 27.
`
` Who is Mr.- -- I don't know if we --
`
` Mr. Barr?
`
` A Cameron Barr is another employee of
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`Kranos Exhibit 1033, Page 16
`Kranos Corp. v. Riddell, Inc., IPR2016-01650
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`Kranos IP Exhibit 2002, Page 16 of 192
`Riddell, Inc. v. Kranos IP II Corp., IPR2018-01164
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`Page 17
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` Biokinetics.
`
` Q Biokinetics. Okay.
`
` Did Riddell sponsor any research related
`
` to 28?
`
` A Yes.
`
` Q Did Riddell?
`
` A No.
`
` Q No.
`
` And what is the IRCOBI conference?
`
` A It's the international conference
`
` reporting on injury in biomechanics. It's where
`
` the world experts assemble and report on their
`
` current research.
`
` Q Okay. So if we could just go to the next
`
` article you can find that relates to American
`
` football, let me know.
`
` A Number 30.
`
` Q Okay. All right.
`
` And did any entity or group sponsor the
`
` research related to that article?
`
` A National Football League.
`
` Q Okay. National Football League. All
`
` right.
`
` Did Riddell sponsor any research related
`
` to that article?
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`www.veritext.com
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`888-391-3376
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`Kranos Corp. v. Riddell, Inc., IPR2016-01650
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`HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL
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`Page 18
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` A No.
`
` Q Okay. If you could tell me the next
`
` article on page 46.
`
` A Article 33.
`
` Q Okay. And who is Mr. Welbourne?
`
` A Eric Welbourne was an employee of
`
` Biokinetics.
`
` Q Okay. And did any entity or group
`
` sponsor the research related to that article?
`
` A The National Football League.
`
` Q Did Riddell sponsor any research related
`
` to that article?
`
` A No.
`
` Q No.
`
` A Next article would be Number 34.
`
` Q Okay. And that article is also sponsored
`
` by the NFL?
`
` A Correct.
`
` Q And Riddell did not sponsor any research
`
` related to that article, Number 34?
`
` A They did not.
`
` Q How about the next article?
`
` A Article 35, the National Football League.
`
` Q The NFL sponsored research related to
`
` that article. Okay.
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`www.veritext.com
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`Kranos Corp. v. Riddell, Inc., IPR2016-01650
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`Kranos IP Exhibit 2002, Page 18 of 192
`Riddell, Inc. v. Kranos IP II Corp., IPR2018-01164
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`HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL
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`Page 19
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` Did Riddell sponsor any research related
`
` to that article?
`
` A No.
`
` Q No.
`
` Are there any other articles related to
`
` American football?
`
` A No, there are not.
`
` Q Okay, thank you. I just want to go back.
`
` When you say "sponsored," does
`
` Biokinetics actually receive direct funding from
`
` the NFL?
`
` A Biokinetics receives funding to conduct
`
` the research. The reporting of the research in
`
` public forums is covered by Biokinetics
`
` themselves.
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`
`
`.
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` Q Okay. And if you could estimate, what
`
` was the time frame for all of that NFL-sponsored
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`Kranos Exhibit 1033, Page 19
`Kranos Corp. v. Riddell, Inc., IPR2016-01650
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`Kranos IP Exhibit 2002, Page 19 of 192
`Riddell, Inc. v. Kranos IP II Corp., IPR2018-01164
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`HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL
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`Page 20
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` research?
`
` A It began early -- or late 1999, early
`
` 2000, and the results of the research were
`
` published for the next several years.
`
` So as you can see from the papers, the
`
` last paper was presented in 2007.
`
` Q Okay. Do you still do any work for the
`
` NFL? Does Biokinetics still do any work for the
`
` NFL?
`
` A Biokinetics does some activity for the
`
` National Football League, yes.
`
` Q Okay. What type of activity?
`
` A We conduct independent helmet performance
`
` tests for the medical committee at the National
`
` Football League.
`
`
`
`.
`
`
`
`
`
`
`
`
`
` Q All right. And you were aware, at that
`
` time that you did this work for -- that
`
` Biokinetics did the work for the NFL, that there
`
` was an exclusive arrangement between the NFL and
`
` Riddell with respect to what manufacturer's helmet
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`Kranos Corp. v. Riddell, Inc., IPR2016-01650
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`Kranos IP Exhibit 2002, Page 20 of 192
`Riddell, Inc. v. Kranos IP II Corp., IPR2018-01164
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`HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL
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`Page 21
`
` was the official helmet of the NFL?
`
` A Yes. I believe we were aware that
`
` Riddell's helmets was the helmet endorsed by the
`
` National Football League.
`
` Q Okay. And that endorsement expired, I
`
` think, in 2013?
`
` A I'm not sure when the expire date is.
`
` Q Okay. Let's head back to the beginning
`
` of your declaration, Exhibit 2005.
`
` A (Witness complies.)
`
` Q I'm looking at paragraph 7 at page 3.
`
` It's confusing, because in the bottom left there
`
` is a 4, but I'm talking about the one in the
`
` middle, for future reference.
`
` A Okay.
`
` Q In paragraph 7 it says that you're being
`
` paid $300 an hour for your testimony.
`
` A Correct.
`
` Q Okay. And is that -- you're being paid
`
` by Riddell?
`
` A Yes, I am.
`
` Q Okay. If you could look at pages 4
`
` through 6 of your declaration, paragraphs 11
`
` through 16.
`
` A (Witness complies.)
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`Kranos Exhibit 1033, Page 21
`Kranos Corp. v. Riddell, Inc., IPR2016-01650
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`Kranos IP Exhibit 2002, Page 21 of 192
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`HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL
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`Page 22
`
` Q That's where you provided various legal
`
` sections on obviousness; is that correct?
`
` A Correct.
`
` Q Okay. There's no legal section on
`
` anticipation. Agreed?
`
` A Agreed.
`
` Q Okay. And at paragraph 14, you discuss
`
` secondary considerations of nonobviousness.
`
` Do you see that?
`
` A Yes, I do.
`
` Q But you didn't offer any opinions on
`
` secondary considerations and nonobviousness?
`
` A No, I did not.
`
` Q Okay. Have you ever been deposed before?
`
` A No, I have not.
`
` Q Welcome. Okay. All right. I didn't
`
` think you were going to say that, but very nice.
`
` Have you ever submitted an expert report
`
` in a legal-type proceeding?
`
` A Outside the Riddell case, no.
`
` Q No? Okay.
`
` When you say "outside the Riddell case,"
`
` you're talking about the federal district case?
`
` A There's a current infringement case under
`
` way. It's in process.
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`Kranos Exhibit 1033, Page 22
`Kranos Corp. v. Riddell, Inc., IPR2016-01650
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`Kranos IP Exhibit 2002, Page 22 of 192
`Riddell, Inc. v. Kranos IP II Corp., IPR2018-01164
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`HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL
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`Page 23
`
` Q Right. With respect to that, I believe
`
` you submitted a single declaration?
`
` A Correct.
`
` Q Okay. But beyond that, that's the only
`
` other declaration or report that you've submitted
`
` in a litigation-type proceeding. Okay?
`
` A Correct.
`
` Q Okay. Good.
`
` Is Mr. Newman still alive?
`
` A Yes, he is.
`
` Q Okay. So did he essentially retire and
`
` turn over the business to you?
`
` A He retired and arranged for the
`
` shareholders to buy him out over several years.
`
` Q Okay.
`
` A He arranged for the shareholders to buy
`
` him out over several years.
`
` Q Do you consider him a mentor?
`
` A At one time, yes.
`
` Q Okay. No longer?
`
` A He's been disassociated with the business
`
` for the past several years.
`
` Q Okay. But at one point you did consider
`
` Mr. Newman a mentor?
`
` A Definitely.
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`Kranos Exhibit 1033, Page 23
`Kranos Corp. v. Riddell, Inc., IPR2016-01650
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`Kranos IP Exhibit 2002, Page 23 of 192
`Riddell, Inc. v. Kranos IP II Corp., IPR2018-01164
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`HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL
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`Page 24
`
` Q Okay.
`
` A He's highly regarded in the field of head
`
` injury.
`
` Q Okay. Do you have any -- well, let's
`
` talk a little bit about your design experience.
`
` Do you have any experience designing
`
` football helmets, American football helmets?
`
` A No direct experience designing the
`
` football helmet system.
`
` I've had experience looking at components
`
` that go into football helmets, such as liner and
`
` materials.
`
` Q Okay. So you're saying you don't -- your
`
` statement is that you didn't have any involvement
`
` in the design of, for instance, the Riddell
`
` Revolution?
`
` A Correct.
`
` Q Okay. But Biokinetics had involvement in
`
` the design of the Revolution?
`
` A Yes.
`
` Q Okay. How about any experience in
`
` designing ice hockey helmets?
`
` A I've worked on the liner system for ice
`
` hockey helmets.
`
` Q Okay. What type of ice hockey helmet?
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`Kranos Exhibit 1033, Page 24
`Kranos Corp. v. Riddell, Inc., IPR2016-01650
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`Kranos IP Exhibit 2002, Page 24 of 192
`Riddell, Inc. v. Kranos IP II Corp., IPR2018-01164
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`HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL
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`Page 25
`
` What brand?
`
` A That was for Cascade.
`
` Q Cascade? All right.
`
` And what about any design experience in
`
` lacrosse helmets?
`
` A No direct experience in lacrosse.
`
` Q Okay. But what about design experience
`
` in -- I'm probably not going to say this right --
`
` motorcycle or automotive helmets, related helmets?
`
` A I'll elaborate a little more on helmet
`
` experience.
`
` Q Yes.
`
` A The sports helmets market, I've designed
`
` two bicycle helmets.
`
` Equestrian helmets.
`
` Curling helmets, if that is a sport.
`
` I certainly looked at linear material
`
` components, retention systems across the whole
`
` range of military, transportation, and sports
`
` helmets.
`
` I've had direct involvement in the
`
` Coast Guard helmets.
`
` Several programs with air crew helmets,
`
` looking at pilot ejection safety.
`
` And helicopter pilot helmet, looking at
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`Kranos Exhibit 1033, Page 25
`Kranos Corp. v. Riddell, Inc., IPR2016-01650
`
`Kranos IP Exhibit 2002, Page 25 of 192
`Riddell, Inc. v. Kranos IP II Corp., IPR2018-01164
`
`
`
`HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL
`
`Page 26
`
` neck strain.
`
` Q Okay. And I don't want to misspeak,
`
` but generally when you get involved in -- let's
`
` call it protective helmets or sports-related
`
` helmets -- are you concerned more with the liner
`
` systems?
`
` A I've been personally involved from all
`
` aspects, from liner systems retention
`
` individually. But also as part of a full complete
`
` helmet system from concept to preproduction.
`
` Q Explain what you mean by liner system
`
` retention.
`
` A So the liner system is typically what
`
` attenuates the impact. It's a crushable material
`
` that dissipates the energy and protects the head.
`
` Q Okay. Do you have any experience
`
` designing the outer shell of the helmet?
`
` A Yes. So bicycle helmets, equestrian
`
` helmets, industrial hardhats, combat helmets
`
` have all been parts of my experience in shell
`
` design.
`
` Q Okay. How about -- do you have injection
`
` molding experience?
`
` A As part of the helmet design, yes.
`
` Well, I've had to deal with injection
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`www.veritext.com
`
`888-391-3376
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`
`Kranos Exhibit 1033, Page 26
`Kranos Corp. v. Riddell, Inc., IPR2016-01650
`
`Kranos IP Exhibit 2002, Page 26 of 192
`Riddell, Inc. v. Kranos IP II Corp., IPR2018-01164
`
`
`
`HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL
`
`Page 27
`
` molding issues, such as drafts, pulls, material
`
` selection, performance evaluation of the shells.
`
` Q Okay. And when you talk about injection
`
` molding, are we generally talking about plastic
`
` injection molding?
`
` A Plastic injection, yes.
`
` Q But you're not an industrial designer,
`
` though. You wouldn't cal
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