UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`Page 1
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`______________
`APPLE, INC.
`Petitioner
`-vs-
`COREPHOTONICS, LTD.
`Patent Owner
`______________
`
`IPR2018-01133
`
`U.S. Patent 9,538,152
`
`______________
`
` VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF JAMES KOSMACH, Ph.D.
`Thursday, May 16, 2019
`Chicago, Illinois
`
`Reported by:
`JANICE M. KOCEK, CSR, CLR
`JOB NO. 160569
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`APPL-1011 / Page 1 of 185
`Apple Inc. v. Corephotonics
`
`
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`Page 1
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`______________
`APPLE, INC.
`Petitioner
`-vs-
`COREPHOTONICS, LTD.
`Patent Owner
`______________
`
`IPR2018-01133
`
`U.S. Patent 9,538,152
`
`______________
`
` VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF JAMES KOSMACH, Ph.D.
`Thursday, May 16, 2019
`Chicago, Illinois
`
`Reported by:
`JANICE M. KOCEK, CSR, CLR
`JOB NO. 160569
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`APPL-1011 / Page 1 of 185
`Apple Inc. v. Corephotonics
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`Page 2
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` May 16, 2019
` 9:07 a.m.
`
` The videotaped deposition of
`JAMES KOSMACH, Ph.D., held at the offices of
`Haynes and Boone, LLP, 180 North LaSalle
`Street, Suite 2215, Chicago, Illinois, before
`Janice M. Kocek, a Certified Shorthand
`Reporter, Certified LiveNote Reporter and
`Notary Public of the State of Illinois.
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`A P P E A R A N C E S:
` HAYNES AND BOONE
` Attorneys for Petitioner
` 2323 Victory Avenue
` Dallas, TX 75219
` BY: JAMIE MCDOLE, ESQ.
` HAYNES AND BOONE
` 600 Congress Avenue
` Austin, TX 78701
` BY: DAVID O'BRIEN, ESQ.
` COOLEY
` Attorneys for Petitioner
` 3175 Hanover Street
` Palo Alto, CA 94304
` PRIYA VISWANATH, ESQ.
`
` RUSS AUGUST & KABAT
` Attorneys for Patent Owner
` 12424 Wilshire Boulevard
` Los Angeles, CA 90025
` BY: NEIL RUBIN, ESQ.
`
`ALSO PRESENT:
` ROBERT ZELLNER, videographer
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` J KOSHMACH, Ph.D.
` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Good morning.
`This is the start of disc labeled number 1
`of the video deposition of Dr. James
`Kosmach, Ph.D., taken in the matter of
`Apple Inc. versus Corephotonics, Ltd., in
`the United States Patent & Trademark Office
`before the Patent Trial and Appeal Board,
`number IPR2018-01133.
` This deposition is being held at
`HaynesBoone LLP, 180 North LaSalle Street,
`Suite 2215, in Chicago, Illinois 60601 on
`May 16th, 2019, at approximately 9:07 a.m.
` My name is Robert Zellner from TSG
`Reporting, Inc., and I am the legal video
`specialist. And the court reporter is
`Janice Kocek, also in association TSG
`Reporting.
` And will counsel please introduce
`yourselves for the record.
` MR. MCDOLE: Jamie McDole rep- --
`representing petitioner.
` MR. O'BRIEN: David O'Brien
`representing petitioner.
` MS. VISWANATH: Priya Viswanath also
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` J KOSHMACH, Ph.D.
` on behalf of petitioner.
` MR. RUBIN: Neil Rubin of
` Russ August & Kabat representing the patent
` owner and defending the witness.
` (Witness sworn.)
`J A M E S K O S M A C H , Ph. D. ,
` called as a witness, having been duly
` sworn by a Notary Public, was examined
` and testified as follows:
`EXAMINATION BY
`MR. MCDOLE:
` Q. Good morning, Dr. -- is it Kosmach?
` A. Kosmach is fine, yes.
` Q. Do you understand that you're under
`oath today?
` A. I do.
` Q. Okay. Could you state your full
`name for the record?
` A. Sure. It's James Joseph Kosmach.
` Q. And do you go by Dr. or --
` A. I just go by Jim.
` Q. By Jim?
` A. Uh-huh.
` Q. Do people call you Dr. Kosmach?
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` J KOSHMACH, Ph.D.
` A. Some or just Kosmach or Professor,
`sure. Yep.
` Q. Okay.
` A. Or Jim. I tell them to call me Jim.
`But sure.
` Q. Okay. Have you ever had your
`deposition taken before?
` A. I have.
` Q. How many times?
` A. Just once.
` Q. What was the context of that
`deposition?
` A. It was an ITC patent case of
`Motorola versus Microsoft.
` Q. How long ago was that?
` A. Probably 2012.
` Q. Okay. And did you opine on issues
`of validity in that ITC patent case?
` A. I was a fact witness. I was an
`inventor.
` Q. Okay. Have you ever offered
`testimony in deposition or trial on -- as an
`expert in any case?
` A. No.
`
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` J KOSHMACH, Ph.D.
` Q. So this is your first testimony as a
`-- as an expert?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Okay. Well, welcome.
` A. Thanks.
` Q. So we're here -- do you understand
`that you're here to offer deposition as a
`result of offering a declaration in IPR2018
`01133?
` A. I -- I am.
` Q. Okay. I'm going to hand you what
`has been previously marked as Exhibit 2005.
` Could you take a look at
`Exhibit 2005 and please let me know if that's
`the declaration that you have submitted in this
`IPR2018-01133?
` A. Yes, it is.
` Q. Okay. And if you could turn to the
`last page.
` Is that your electronic signature
`that's attached to the declaration?
` A. It is.
` Q. Okay. Now, as we go through the
`deposition today, I'm going to be asking you
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` J KOSHMACH, Ph.D.
`questions and you're going to be answering my
`questions.
` Do you understand that?
` A. I do.
` Q. Okay. And I'm going to do the best
`in my power not to talk over you. If you do
`the same, not to talk over me, we'll make the
`court reporter's life much easier.
` Do you understand that?
` A. Understood.
` Q. Okay. Now, your -- your counsel may
`offer objections during the deposition. Unless
`he instructs you not to answer the question,
`you're -- you still must answer the question.
` Do you understand that?
` A. Understood.
` Q. Okay. Now, it's also important
`during the deposition today that you understand
`my questions. I want to make sure we have an
`accurate -- accurate record. So if you answer
`-- if -- if you don't understand one of my
`questions, I ask that you just ask me for
`clarification.
` A. Okay.
`
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` J KOSHMACH, Ph.D.
` Q. And either I will try to provide
`that clarification or ask other questions to
`try to figure out where our disconnect is.
` Does that sound fair?
` A. That sounds reasonable, yes.
` Q. Okay. And if you answer one of my
`questions, I'm going to assume that you have
`understood that question.
` Does that sound fair?
` A. That -- that's fair.
` Q. Okay. Is there anything that would
`prevent you from giving the full truth today?
` A. No.
` Q. Okay. Now, if I refer to your
`declaration, will we understand that we're --
`will you understand that we're referring to
`Exhibit 2005, the -- the declaration that's
`sitting in front of you now?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Okay. That may make things a little
`bit easier.
` Now, I also have a list of three
`references here. I'm going to hand you what's
`been previously marked as APPL1001, which is
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` J KOSHMACH, Ph.D.
`U.S. Patent Number 9,538,152. I'm going to
`hand you reference -- or Exhibit APPL1006,
`which is publication number U.S. 2008/0030592.
`And I'm going to hand you Exhibit APPL1007,
`which is U.S. Patent Number 7,859,588.
` Okay. If we could start with
`Exhibit 1001. Will you understand if we refer
`-- that if we refer to Exhibit 1001 as the '152
`patent, that we're referring to U.S. Patent
`Number 9,538,152?
` A. Ask that again. What did you just
`say?
` Q. Sure. I'm trying to figure out --
`make sure we have the shorthand on record.
` A. You're saying '152 if you refer to
`it as that?
` Q. If we -- if we refer to Exhibit 1001
`as the '152 patent, will you understand that
`I'm referring to U.S. Patent Number 9,538,152?
` A. Yeah, I would prefer that, yeah.
` Q. Okay. Me, too.
` And if I refer to Exhibit 1006 as
`the Border reference, will you understand that
`I'm referring to U.S. Publication Number
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` J KOSHMACH, Ph.D.
`2008/0030592?
` A. I'm sorry. I missed which -- what's
`the shorthand notation you're asking?
` Q. The Border reference.
` A. If you said Border, sure.
` Q. Okay. And one more.
` If -- for Exhibit 1007, if I refer
`to it as Parulski or the Parulski reference,
`will you understand that to be U.S. Patent
`Number 7,859,588?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Great.
` In drafting your declaration, did
`you make sure to pay close attention to details
`and choose your words carefully?
` A. I did.
` Q. Okay. Are there any errors you're
`aware of in your declaration, Exhibit 2005?
` A. You know, I recently reviewed it.
`There are some typos here and there.
` Q. Okay. Are you -- do those typos
`have -- change the substance of the opinion?
` A. I think there's like some references
`here to document numbers that are probably off.
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` J KOSHMACH, Ph.D.
` Q. Could you give me an example of what
`you're talking about?
` A. I think like Item J, 2002. I think
`that's a different number.
` Q. Okay.
` A. And I think 2007 is probably a
`different number. I think there was a -- a
`mix-up on the -- the numbering that I had and
`-- for this document and the -- the numbers
`that the -- the firm actually had.
` Q. Okay.
` A. And then somewhere in here there's a
`reference to the -- I'm going to pronounce his
`name -- Cossairt declaration. And I think the
`pages -- I -- I didn't write any of this down
`but I think the page number to the reference is
`off. And so that -- that's probably the most
`critical one in terms of is it referencing the
`right section of his declaration.
` Q. Okay.
` A. Or of his, you know...
` Q. Okay. Besides the errors that
`you've just mentioned in your testimony, are
`there any other errors in your declaration,
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` J KOSHMACH, Ph.D.
`Exhibit 2005?
` A. Like I said, there's typos but it's
`like maybe a word's repeated twice and -- and,
`you know, or an "of" is misspelled or something
`like that.
` Q. Okay.
` A. I don't think in terms of the
`substance it's -- it changes anything.
` Q. Okay. Now, if we can turn to the
`last page again.
` Did you affix your electronic
`signature to your declaration on or about
`March 4th, 2019?
` A. Yes.
` Q. How do you know that the version
`that was filed with the United States Patent &
`Trade -- Trademark Office is the same version
`that you attached your electronic signature to?
` A. I guess I -- I don't.
` Q. Okay. How much time did you take to
`prepare your declaration?
` A. You mean the actual writing of it
`or, you know, investigation or -- and
`everything?
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` J KOSHMACH, Ph.D.
` Q. Investigation and -- I'm sorry. I
`didn't mean to talk over you.
` A. Yeah.
` Q. I'm talking investigation and
`drafting.
` A. It was I think total time probably a
`month's worth of work or so.
` Q. Okay.
` A. Off the top of my head. Maybe less.
` Q. So a month's worth --
` A. I mean, it was like an hour here,
`two hours here. If you add it up, it wouldn't
`have been a total of a month. It probably
`would have been like two to three weeks or
`something.
` Q. Okay. And I didn't notice in your
`declaration that you put your hourly rate down.
` What's your hourly rate?
` A. It's $250.
` Q. And is your testimony in any way
`dependent on success in this IPR?
` A. No.
` Q. Have all your invoices been paid to
`date?
`
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` J KOSHMACH, Ph.D.
` A. They have not.
` Q. How many of them are past due?
` A. I don't think any are past due but
`-- yeah.
` Q. Sounds good.
` Should the Patent Trial and Appeal
`Board expect to find any errors in your
`declaration outside the ones you've already
`identified?
` A. Not that I'm aware of, no.
` Q. Okay. If we could turn to page 3 of
`your declaration, paragraph 3.
` A. Page 3 you said?
` Q. Yes. Does paragraph 3 identify a
`full list of the materials you considered in
`drafting your declaration?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Are there any additional materials
`that you reviewed in forming the opinions in
`your declaration besides those listed in
`paragraph 3?
` A. I mean, other than knowledge that I
`have, no.
` Q. Okay. Who provided the materials to
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` J KOSHMACH, Ph.D.
`you that are identified in paragraph 3 to
`consider in forming your opinions?
` A. Their law firm.
` Q. Okay. Did you ask for any
`additional materials that were not provided to
`you to form your opinions?
` A. Asked them or -- I'm not sure what
`you're asking.
` Q. Did -- did you ask counsel for --
`strike that.
` Did you ask your counsel for any
`additional materials that you needed that were
`not provided to you to form your opinions?
` A. No. I mean, any other material -- I
`mean, like the Szeliski book, I mean, I got
`that on my own. So not everything here I got
`from them if that's what you're asking. I'm
`not sure.
` Q. Okay. Okay. But you did -- you did
`not ask counsel for any additional materials
`that were not provided?
` A. That were not provided, no. That's
`correct.
` Q. Okay. Can you explain why you did
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` J KOSHMACH, Ph.D.
`not consider or review Exhibit 1009 to this
`IPR?
` A. I don't know what 1009 is.
` Q. It's missing out of your list.
` A. Yeah, it's -- okay. But I don't
`know what 1009 is.
` Q. Did you think that it would be
`important to review all the exhibits to an IPR
`before rendering an opinion in an IPR?
` A. I'm not sure what 1009 is to know
`that it was missing or not here, I guess.
` Q. If it was a reference that was
`included in the IPR to provide substantive
`information to the Patent Office, do you think
`it would have been prudent to review that
`exhibit before offering your opinions?
` MR. RUBIN: Objection. Form.
` THE WITNESS: I would have to know
` what it is to -- to say whether or not I
` needed it.
`BY MR. MCDOLE:
` Q. Okay. Are you aware of a book
`called Langford's Advanced Photography, 7th
`Edition?
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` J KOSHMACH, Ph.D.
` A. Sure.
` Q. Sure. Do you have that book
`memorized?
` A. No.
` Q. If that was -- if I were tell you
`that that was Exhibit 1009, would you think it
`was important to have reviewed that book before
`rendering your opinions in this case?
` A. A textbook, not necessarily, no.
` Q. But if -- if you don't have it
`memorized, do -- do you know why it was cited
`in Apple's IPR against the '152 patent?
` A. Off the top of my head, I do not --
`I do not recall.
` Q. Okay. So do you know -- do you know
`whether it would have been important to your
`opinions or not as you sit here?
` A. Yeah, I -- I don't know whether it
`would be or not, yeah.
` Q. Okay. Now, did you notice that
`counsel -- strike that.
` Did you notice that your counsel did
`not provide you Exhibit 1009 prior to rendering
`your opinions?
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` A. Yeah, I don't know if that's the
`case or not. I mean, I -- they've -- they've
`certainly provided me with a lot of things.
`But whether I used them here to -- to -- for my
`declaration is -- is a different case but --
`yeah.
` Q. Okay. Now, paragraph 3 is just
`materials you've reviewed, correct?
` A. It says in preparing this
`declaration this is -- this is what I review --
`reviewed.
` Q. Do you have knowledge of reviewing
`Exhibit 1009 prior --
` A. Well, I -- I told you I have not --
`I have not looked at it. But they may have
`provided it to me but I -- in preparing the
`declaration, I didn't see a need to look at it,
`yeah.
` Q. Now, you had mentioned Dr. Cossairt
`in a citation in your declaration associated
`with him.
` Do you remember that?
` A. That I said that, yes.
` Q. Do you know who Dr. Cossairt is?
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` A. I mean, other than seeing him, you
`know, in his declaration in this case I --
`that's all I know of him.
` Q. Okay. So you've never met him at
`trade shows?
` A. Not that I'm aware of.
` Q. Did you review Exhibit 1005 to
`Apple's IPR prior to forming your opinions in
`this declaration?
` A. You'd have to say what 1005 is to --
`it's -- you said it was --
` Q. Apple's Exhibit 1005 to the IPR.
` A. To the IPR. I -- I mean, I don't
`know what the number means, so I don't know
`what it is so...
` Q. Okay. But 1005 is not listed in
`your materials considered either.
` A. Okay.
` Q. Right, correct?
` A. Okay. It is not listed, correct.
` Q. Okay. Did you review the Board's
`institution decision in this case -- or in this
`IPR?
` A. The Board's institution decision, I
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` J KOSHMACH, Ph.D.
`-- I don't know what that means from -- from an
`engineering point of view.
` Q. Okay. Fair -- fair enough. I'll
`rephrase it.
` Are you aware that the Board decided
`to institute this IPR to determine the validity
`-- the validity of the '152 patent?
` A. I mean, I think that's why we're
`here but I -- as to what all that means, I
`don't know what that means, yeah.
` Q. Okay. Did you read the Board's
`opinion in which it granted the IPR setting
`these proceedings in motion?
` A. If I did, it might have been an
`excerpt from it or someone mentioned it but I
`-- I couldn't tell you.
` Q. Okay. Have you reviewed
`Corephotonics's patent owner response prior to
`its filing?
` A. Corephotonics's owner response, I --
`I don't believe so.
` Q. Okay. Let me ask it this way: Have
`you reviewed -- strike that.
` Subsequent to submitting your
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` J KOSHMACH, Ph.D.
`declaration in this IPR, have you reviewed any
`additional materials other than those in
`paragraph 3 of your declaration?
` A. State -- state it again.
` Q. Sure. Subsequent to submitting your
`declaration in this IPR, have you reviewed any
`additional materials other than those in
`paragraph 3 of your declaration?
` A. Have I reviewed any other materials?
`Like I said, I mean, I have knowledge of -- of
`-- of things that -- you know, reviewing that
`may have been a part of that. I also, you
`know, teach classes and things may have come to
`mind as -- as I'm preparing, you know, other
`things that caused me to do that. So, yeah.
` Q. Okay. Have you reviewed any
`materials provided to you by your counsel
`relating to this IPR subsequent to filing your
`declaration in this IPR?
` A. Not -- not that I'm aware of, no.
` Q. Okay. Does your declaration contain
`all of your opinions relating to the validity
`of the '152 patent in this IPR?
` A. Yeah, to my best ability -- to the
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` J KOSHMACH, Ph.D.
`best of my ability, yes.
` Q. Okay. Are there any opinions that
`you've thought of subsequent to submitting your
`declaration that you don't believe are within
`the -- your -- your declaration itself?
` A. No, no.
` Q. Okay. One other thing. If at any
`point today you need a break, just let me know
`and I'm -- I may have a question or two on the
`back end to finish up a line of thought, but
`otherwise we'll take breaks as often as you
`feel you need them. Okay?
` A. Sounds good.
` Q. Okay. What did you do to prepare
`for today's deposition?
` A. I met with counsel here yesterday
`and kind of just walked me through what to
`expect, you know, a possible videographer and,
`you know, to relax and -- and be myself and,
`you know, things like that. And then, you
`know, I just reread my declaration just to kind
`of jog my memory because it's been, you know, a
`couple months or so.
` Q. Okay.
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` J KOSHMACH, Ph.D.
` A. Yeah.
` Q. Did you review any materials besides
`your declaration in preparing for your
`deposition?
` A. I believe we -- yeah, I mean,
`obviously these patents, just quickly glanced
`at them again to kind of jog my memory of it,
`but -- all of these exhibits that you've
`provided, you know...
` Q. Okay. How long did you spend
`preparing for your deposition?
` A. For my deposition, yeah, I would say
`most of the day yesterday, yeah.
` Q. And did you prepare all day
`yesterday with your counsel?
` A. Yeah, I think most of the day
`yesterday, yeah.
` Q. Okay. When were you first contacted
`about your engagement in this IPR?
` A. It was sometime last year. I don't
`remember the exact date.
` Q. Okay. Before you were retained as
`an expert by Corephotonics in this IPR, what
`materials did you review?
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` J KOSHMACH, Ph.D.
` A. With regards to what did I review?
` Q. With regards to this IPR, prior to
`your engagement as an expert, what materials
`did you review?
` A. None. I didn't know anything about
`this case.
` Q. Did you understand -- did you
`understand Corephotonics's position in this
`case before taking on the engagement?
` A. I'm not sure what you're exactly
`asking. I -- like was I aware of this case
`before Corephotonics talked to me? Is that
`what you're asking?
` Q. Let -- let -- I'll rephrase.
` A. Yeah.
` Q. You didn't -- did you understand
`what the technology subject matter was prior to
`your engagement this matter?
` A. Oh, I -- okay. Okay. So you -- are
`you saying before I contractually was -- was
`working for them like we had some sort of
`pre-engagement interview process, if you will,
`by them and by me? Is that -- is what you're
`asking.
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` J KOSHMACH, Ph.D.
` Q. Correct. Correct.
` A. Yes, that was -- so I -- I had seen
`the -- the -- the '152 patent.
` Q. Okay. So you reviewed the '152
`patent prior to your engagement in this matter?
` A. Just briefly and submitted my resume
`and then they talked to me and I talked to them
`and then -- and then at that point it was
`agreed to -- to proceed.
` Q. Okay. Prior to your engagement,
`what conversations did you have with
`Corephotonics or their counsel?
` MR. RUBIN: Objection. Caution the
` witness not to disclose the substance of
` any communications that you've had with
` Corephotonics or -- correction, or that you
` had with counsel for Corephotonics
` concerning the subject matter of this case.
` MR. MCDOLE: Counsel, just to make
` sure we're clear. My question was very
` clear, prior to his engagement. So are you
` saying that a conversation he had prior to
` engagement is somehow privileged?
` MR. RUBIN: Yeah, it's just like a
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` J KOSHMACH, Ph.D.
` conversation that a -- that an attorney has
` with a client specifically related to an
` engagement, even before an engagement
` letter is signed is privileged, yes. Our
` discussions with the witness that we
` subsequently engaged are work product.
` MR. MCDOLE: Okay. Well, I
` disagree. I think there's plenty of case
` law on that. You can't claim privilege
` with an expert prior to their engagement.
` So are -- are you going instruct him
` not to answer?
` MR. RUBIN: Can you state your
` question again?
`BY MR. MCDOLE:
` Q. Sure. Prior to your engagement,
`what conversations did you have with
`Corephotonics or their counsel?
` MR. RUBIN: You can answer that
` question with respect to conversations
` prior to your agreeing to serve as a
` witness -- or as an expert rather in this
` matter.
` THE WITNESS: Okay. So ask it
`
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` J KOSHMACH, Ph.D.
` again. I'm sorry.
`BY MR. MCDOLE:
` Q. Sure. Prior to your engagement in
`this matter, what conversations did you have
`with Corephotonics or its counsel?
` A. Yeah, it was interview
`conversations.
` Q. Okay. What types of questions did
`they ask you prior to your engagement?
` A. Well, it was two-sided. I asked
`them questions, they asked me, right, just like
`a typical interview. Mainly about my
`background and kind of things that -- that I
`had worked on and whether or not they thought I
`was appropriate to be on this particular case.
`And likewise, I reviewed the patent, the '152
`patent, to see if, you know, I had some sort of
`thoughts on, you know, this particular
`technical background and whether or not I felt
`like, you know, I would want to apply at that
`point for the -- this position.
` Q. Okay. Did any of the questions --
`strike that.
` Prior to your engagement, were any
`
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` J KOSHMACH, Ph.D.
`of the questions that you were asked indicate
`the opinions that Corephotonics or its counsel
`wanted you to take?
` A. No, no.
` Q. Did you know prior to your
`engagement whether Corephotonics or its counsel
`wanted you to opine that the '152 patent was
`valid?
` A. I mean, I -- I guess by default I
`know that -- that -- you know, they were suing
`Apple versus Apple was suing them, right. So I
`kind of assumed that that's going to be their
`position. But they did not ask anything like
`that of me.
` Q. Okay.
` A. In fact, they said it was okay to
`have an opinion either way and that I'm, you
`know, the technical expert and they just needed
`to have my opinion.
` Q. Okay. Prior to your engagement, did
`you provide any indication as to what your
`opinion would be as to the validity the '152
`patent?
` A. Oh, no. Sorry. No.
`
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` J KOSHMACH, Ph.D.
` Q. Okay. You're not a legal expert,
`correct?
` A. That's -- that's very true.
` Q. You're not an expert in patent law?
` A. No.
` Q. You're not an expert in patent
`infringement litigation?
` A. No.
` Q. Okay. You're not an expert in
`Patent Office procedure; are you?
` A. That's correct.
` Q. Okay. You're not an expert in inter
`partes reviews at the patent office?
` A. No.
` Q. Are you an expert in photography?
` A. In photography, no.
` Q. Do you hold yourself out as a camera
`expert?
` A. Like hardware camera expert, no.
` Q. Do you hold yourself out as an
`expert in optical zooming in cameras?
` A. No.
` Q. Do you hold yourself out in the
`industry as an expert in dual-aperture imaging
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` J KOSHMACH, Ph.D.
`systems?
` A. No.
` Q. You don't hold yourself out as a
`claim construction expert; do you?
` A. That's correct.
` Q. Okay. What are you an expert in?
` A. Well, I have a Ph.D. in engineering
`and so I have a strong background in signal
`processing which includes image and video
`signal processing and I've worked on mobile
`phones for a number of years. So that's
`basically my expertise.
` Q. Are you an expert in anything else?
` A. Oh, I'm sure we could go on and on
`about all kinds of different things. But in
`terms of this case, I think that's basically
`it.
` Q. Okay. Are you an expert in optics
`design?
` A. No.
` Q. Have you ever designed a
`dual-aperture imaging system?
` A. No.
` Q. Are you an expert on registration
`
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` J KOSHMACH, Ph.D.
`procedures in DAI systems?
` MR. RUBIN: Objection. Form.
` THE WITNESS: I mean, you keep using
` the word "expert," I guess, and I'm -- I'm
` a very, you know -- I -- I don't stand up
` and say I'm an expert about anything --
` hardly anything, right. So do I have
` knowledge in -- in various things, yes.
`BY MR. MCDOLE:
` Q. Okay. Let me ask it this way: Do
`you hold yourself out as an expert in the
`industry in registration procedures in DAI
`systems?
` A. No.
` Q. Do you hold yourself out as an
`expert in the industry in mapping of pixels in
`DAI systems?
` A. No.
` Q. Do you hold yourself out as an
`expert in the industry in standard filter color
`arrays?
` A. No.
` Q. Do you hold yourself out in the
`industry in homography?
`
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` J KOSHMACH, Ph.D.
` A. No.
` Q. If I could have you turn to
`paragraph 22 of your declaration. And you
`state what your understanding of the law of
`obviousness is at least in part in paragra
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