`
` UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
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` NORTHERN DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA
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` SAN FRANCISCO DIVISION
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`IMPLICIT NETWORKS, INC.,
`
` Plaintiff,
`
` vs. CASE NO. 3:10-cv-03365-SI
`
`F5 NETWORKS,
`
` Defendant.
`
`___________________
`
`AND RELATED ACTIONS
`
`______________________________________________________
`
` 30(b)(6) VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF
`
` IMPLICIT NETWORKS, INC., THROUGH EDWARD BALASSANIAN
`
` San Francisco, California
`
` Wednesday, May 30, 2012
`
` Volume I
`
` CONFIDENTIAL PURSUANT TO PROTECTIVE ORDER
`
` ATTORNEYS' EYES ONLY
`
`Reported by:
`
`LORI STOKES
`
`CSR No. 12732
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`Job No. 146782
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`PAGES 1 - 273
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`Confidential
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` UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
`
` NORTHERN DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA
`
` SAN FRANCISCO DIVISION
`
`IMPLICIT NETWORKS, INC.,
`
` Plaintiff,
`
` vs. CASE NO. 3:10-cv-03365-SI
`
`F5 NETWORKS,
`
` Defendant.
`
`_________________________
`
`IMPLICIT NETWORKS, INC.,
`
` Plaintiff,
`
` vs. CASE NO. 3:10-cv-03746-SI
`
`HEWLETT-PACKARD COMPANY,
`
` Defendant.
`
`_________________________
`
`IMPLICIT NETWORKS, INC.,
`
` Plaintiff,
`
` vs. CASE NO. 3:10-cv-04234
`
`JUNIPER NETWORKS, INC.,
`
` Defendant.
`
`_____________________________________________________
`
` 30(b)(6) Videotaped Deposition of Implicit
`
`Networks, Inc., through Edward Balassanian, Volume
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`I, taken on behalf of Defendants, at 4 Embarcadero
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`Sarnoff, A VERITEXT COMPANY
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`Confidential
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`Center, Suite 1200, San Francisco, California,
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`beginning at 9:44 a.m. and ending at 5:10 p.m. on
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`May 30, 2012, before LORI STOKES, Certified
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`Shorthand Reporter No. 12732.
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`A P P E A R A N C E S :
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`Confidential
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`F o r t h e P l a i n t i f f
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` H O S I E R I C E L L P
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` B Y : S P E N C E R H O S I E
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` A t t o r n e y a t L a w
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` 6 0 0 M o n t g o m e r y S t r e e t
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` 3 4 t h F l o o r
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` S a n F r a n c i s c o , C a l i f o r n i a 9 4 1 1 1
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` E - m a i l : s h o s i e @ h o s i e l a w . c o m
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` P h o n e : 4 1 5 - 2 4 7 - 6 0 0 0
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`F o r t h e D e f e n d a n t F 5 N e t w o r k s , I n c .
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` K & L G A T E S L L P
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` B Y : S H A N E B R U N
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` A t t o r n e y a t L a w
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` F o u r E m b a r c a d e r o C e n t e r
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` S u i t e 1 2 0 0
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`F o r t h e D e f e n d a n t J u n i p e r N e t w o r k s
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`Confidential
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` I R E L L & M A N E L L A L L P
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` B Y : D A V I D C . M c P H I E
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` A t t o r n e y a t L a w
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` 8 4 0 N e w p o r t C e n t e r D r i v e
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` E - m a i l : d m c p h i e @ i r e l l . c o m
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`F o r t h e D e f e n d a n t H e w l e t t - P a c k a r d
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` F I S H & R I C H A R D S O N P . C .
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` B Y : C H R I S T O P H E R O . G R E E N
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` A t t o r n e y a t L a w
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` 1 1 8 0 P e a c h t r e e S t r e e t , N . E .
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`A L S O P R E S E N T : R a c h e l M a i r e
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`V i d e o g r a p h e r :
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` B a r t R e i s
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`Confidential
`
` INDEX
`
`WITNESS EXAMINATION
`
`EDWARD BALASSANIAN
`
`Volume I
`
` By Mr. McPhie 11
`
` EXHIBITS
`
`EXHIBIT DESCRIPTION PAGE
`
`EXHIBIT 100 Implicit Networks, Inc.'s 18
`
` Response to Juniper Networks,
`
` Inc.'s Second Set of
`
` Interrogatories (Nos. 11-19)
`
`EXHIBIT 101 Juniper Networks, Inc.'s Second 66
`
` Amended Notice of Deposition of
`
` Implicit Networks, Inc.
`
`EXHIBIT 102 United States Patent 107
`
` 6,629,163 B1
`
`EXHIBIT 103 United States Patent 107
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` 7,711,857 B2
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` EXHIBITS (continued)
`
`Confidential
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`EXHIBIT DESCRIPTION PAGE
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`EXHIBIT 104 United States Patent 128
`
` 7,730,211 B2
`
`EXHIBIT 105 First Amended Complaint and 143
`
` Demand for Jury Trial
`
`EXHIBIT 106 Document titled, Technology 173
`
` Patents Bates stamped IMP080560
`
` through IMP080595
`
`EXHIBIT 107 Portal Operating System, A White 212
`
` Paper, Bates stamped IMP080788
`
` through IMP080809
`
`EXHIBIT 108 Printout from the website for 230
`
` BeComm Corporation, Bates stamped
`
` IMP080596 through IMP080607
`
`EXHIBIT 109 Presentation titled BeComm, 236
`
` Interface to Information, Bates
`
` Stamped IMP076167 through
`
` IMP076187
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` EXHIBITS (continued)
`
`Confidential
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`EXHIBIT DESCRIPTION PAGE
`
`EXHIBIT 110 Plaintiff's 4/9/2012 Amended 247
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` Disclosure of Asserted Claims
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` and Infringement Contentions
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`EXHIBIT 111 Press Release dated 254
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` January 3, 1997
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`Confidential
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` San Francisco, California, Wednesday, May 30, 2012
`
` 9:44 a.m.
`
` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Good morning. We're 09:43:58
`
`on the record at 9:44 a.m. on May 30th, 2012. This
`
`is the video-recorded deposition of the 30(b)(6)
`
`for Implicit Networks. My name is Bart Reis, here
`
`with our court reporter, Lori Stokes. We're here
`
`from Veritext National Deposition and Litigation 09:44:18
`
`Services at the request of the defendant.
`
` This deposition is being held at
`
`4 Embarcadero Center, Suite 1200, in San Francisco,
`
`California. And the caption of the cases are
`
`Implicit Networks, Inc. versus F5 Networks, Inc., 09:44:35
`
`case number 3:10-cv-03365-SI.
`
` And Implicit Networks, Inc. versus
`
`Hewlett-Packard Company, case number
`
`3:10-cv-03746-SI.
`
` And Implicit Networks, Inc. versus 09:45:01
`
`Juniper Networks, Inc., case number 3:10-cv-04234.
`
` Please note that audio and video
`
`recording will take place unless all parties agree
`
`to go off the record. Microphones are sensitive
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`and may pick up whispers, private conversations and 09:45:23
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`cellular interference. 09:45:25
`
` At this time, will Counsel and all
`
`present please identify themselves for the record.
`
` MR. HOSIE: Good morning. Spencer Hosie
`
`of Hosie Rice representing the witness and Implicit 09:45:34
`
`Networks, the plaintiff.
`
` MR. McPHIE: David McPhie of Irell &
`
`Manella representing Defendant Juniper Networks,
`
`Inc.
`
` MR. BRUN: Shane Brun with K&L Gates 09:45:45
`
`representing Defendant F5 Networks. And with me is
`
`our summer associate, Rachel Maire.
`
` MR. HOSIE: Good morning, Rachel.
`
` MS. MAIRE: Good morning.
`
` MR. HOSIE: We have not met before. 09:45:55
`
` MS. MAIRE: Nice to meet you.
`
` MR. HOSIE: Likewise.
`
` MR. GREEN: Christopher Green, Fish &
`
`Richardson, appearing on behalf of Defendant
`
`Hewlett-Packard. 09:46:05
`
` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Thank you.
`
` The witness will be sworn in, and we can
`
`proceed.
`
` EDWARD BALASSANIAN,
`
`having been administered an oath, was examined and 09:46:08
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`testified as follows: 09:46:08
`
`Confidential
`
` EXAMINATION
`
`BY MR. McPHIE:
`
` Q Good morning. Would you please state 09:46:20
`
`your full name and residential address for the
`
`record, please.
`
` A Edward Balassanian, 8907 NE 36th Street,
`
`Yarrow Point, Washington 98004.
`
` Q Mr. Balassanian, have you ever been 09:46:33
`
`deposed before?
`
` A Yes, I have.
`
` Q Are you the inventor of flow-based
`
`processing?
`
` MR. HOSIE: Objection. Vague and 09:46:43
`
`ambiguous.
`
` THE WITNESS: If by flow-based processing
`
`you mean the '163 patent, yes, I am.
`
`BY MR. McPHIE:
`
` Q What is your understanding of what 09:46:52
`
`flow-based processing means?
`
` MR. HOSIE: Objection. Vague and
`
`ambiguous.
`
` THE WITNESS: Flow-based processing is a
`
`very general term. I think you need to be a little 09:47:02
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`BY MR. McPHIE: 03:14:13
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`Confidential
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` Q In this time frame.
`
` A I don't believe I've ever visited that
`
`university.
`
`BY MR. McPHIE: 03:14:18
`
` Q Any contacts with individuals at that
`
`university?
`
` A I don't recall.
`
` Q How about the University of Arizona?
`
` A I definitely visited the University of 03:14:26
`
`Arizona. I don't think it was in the 1996 time
`
`frame. I'm guessing it wasn't until '98, or
`
`'99 even, that I would have visited it physically.
`
` Q And who were the individuals that you
`
`contacted at the University of Arizona? 03:14:50
`
` A I don't think I contacted any individuals
`
`at University of Arizona in 1996. Actually, that's
`
`not true.
`
` I didn't physically visit University of
`
`Arizona, so if I contacted anyone, it would have 03:15:09
`
`been over email.
`
` And I invited David Mosberger, who was a
`
`student at University of Arizona to attend a
`
`recruiting fair that I hosted in Seattle in early
`
`1997. 03:15:26
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` I might have invited a couple other 03:15:29
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`students from University of Arizona. I can't
`
`recall.
`
` Q Was email your primary or preferred mode
`
`of communication during this time period? 03:15:45
`
` A I was a computer nerd, so yes, I hid
`
`behind email.
`
` Q And you no longer have the email archives
`
`from that time period, correct?
`
` A I don't believe I have archived that time 03:16:05
`
`period. I don't even know if I had a server set up
`
`to do anything like that at that time. So, no, I
`
`do not have archives going back that far.
`
` Q Did you have your own mail server?
`
` MR. HOSIE: Objection. Vague as to time. 03:16:24
`
` THE WITNESS: Did we have our own mail
`
`server? During 1996?
`
`BY MR. McPHIE:
`
` Q At BeComm.
`
` MR. HOSIE: Objection. Vague as to time. 03:16:36
`
` THE WITNESS: BeComm still exists, and
`
`there are mail servers at BeComm.
`
`BY MR. McPHIE:
`
` Q Did you have your own mail server at
`
`BeComm during the 1996 through 1999 time frame? 03:16:46
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` A I don't know if we had one in 1996. I 03:16:57
`
`think the first mail server we set up was probably
`
`in the latter half of that time period. We would
`
`have installed an exchange server if we had one set
`
`up. 03:17:11
`
` And that would have been later, probably
`
`'98 or '99.
`
` Q Do you have any of your email records
`
`from 1999 or earlier?
`
` A I have produced all the email records 03:17:30
`
`that I have. And I -- yeah, I've produced all the
`
`email records that I have. I don't recall how far
`
`back they go.
`
` Q You didn't maintain them in any sort of
`
`systematic way? 03:17:48
`
` MR. HOSIE: Objection. Vague as to time.
`
`BY MR. McPHIE:
`
` Q In all these questions, by the way, we're
`
`talking about from the inception of BeComm to,
`
`let's say, the filing of the patents-in-suit, okay? 03:17:59
`
` A So December 29th, 1999?
`
` Q Yes.
`
` A Okay. Systematically? I mean, I didn't
`
`do anything. If the exchange server stored emails
`
`and preserved in-boxes, then they were saved. 03:18:19
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`Implicit Exhibit 2092
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` But we routinely migrated our 03:18:24
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`Confidential
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`infrastructure from old hardware to new hardware,
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`updated to new versions of Exchange. And more
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`often than not, email archives were the victim of
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`that. 03:18:43
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` Q Was that intentional? Or was it just an
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`accidental artifact of going from one system to
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`another?
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` A Was what intentional?
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` Q The loss of email. 03:18:56
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` A I wouldn't characterize us as losing
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`email. I would just say that we -- during certain
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`time periods, we didn't keep the archives.
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` Losing it implies that we meant to
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`otherwise keep it. And there was no reason to keep 03:19:13
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`piles of email.
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` Q Well, I don't mean to dance around
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`semantic terms here.
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` You had email that you used heavily from
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`1996 to 1999, correct? 03:19:26
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` A Correct.
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` Q And now you do not have the bulk of those
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`email records, correct?
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` A I don't think I have very many emails
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`from 1996 to 2000 -- or to 1999ish. 03:19:43
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`Sarnoff, A VERITEXT COMPANY
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`Implicit Exhibit 2092
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` Q How about 2000? 03:19:47
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` A Well, we made a change to a new -- well,
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`actually, what happened was I hired somebody to
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`manage that stuff, so I wasn't doing it anymore.
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` Q When did that happen? 03:20:01
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` A Well, one of my goals when I started the
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`company is that I did every aspect of what the
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`company would do, write the code, sell the
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`software, do the books, clean the office, clean the
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`toilets, run the cables, set up the infrastructure, 03:20:13
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`install the Exchange servers.
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` At some point, it became too much for me
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`to do. But when I had enough staff, and I needed a
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`bigger infrastructure for information for our IT
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`side of things, I hired somebody who did that, in 03:20:29
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`addition to other things.
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` That person was at the company for a
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`while, but they took on that responsibility as my
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`workload became too much. And I know that in 2000,
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`we switched over to -- I can't remember the name of 03:20:43
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`the product.
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` But it was an Exchange server -- a
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`Microsoft Exchange server that allowed us to more
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`easily archive email -- I shouldn't say it that
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`way. 03:21:07
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`Implicit Exhibit 2092
`Sonos v. Implicit, IPR2018-0766, -0767
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` It made it possible to have in-boxes that 03:21:08
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`had way more messages in them. So you didn't have
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`to delete email to keep your in-box manageable.
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`You could actually create folders and stick emails
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`in there. So most of the emails that I have are 03:21:22
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`from that time period and forward.
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` Q When you say from that time period and
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`forward, what time period are you referring to?
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` A There's a -- there's a -- I think it's
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`2000 roughly, where my in-boxes were starting to be 03:21:37
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`archived. There might be some before then.
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` But again, when we transitioned between
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`servers -- especially when I was doing it because I
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`wasn't as careful -- it's easy to obliterate the
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`archives. 03:21:57
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` Q Was that obliteration accidental?
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` A That obliteration was never intentional
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`in trying to delete records of emails. But
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`sometimes it was intentional in just taking the
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`fastest path to getting a new server set up. 03:22:12
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` Q So it was at least a conscious decision?
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` MR. HOSIE: Objection. Vague and
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`ambiguous. Mischaracterizes the witness'
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`testimony.
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` THE WITNESS: I would characterize it 03:22:26
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`Implicit Exhibit 2092
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`more as not caring whether it was lost or not. 03:22:27
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`BY MR. McPHIE:
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` Q And that includes Implicit's email
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`records all the way through whenever it was in the
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`year 2000 when you hired an individual to manage 03:22:40
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`your email, correct?
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` MR. HOSIE: Objection. Mischaracterizes
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`the testimony.
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` THE WITNESS: As I mentioned, that
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`individual was at the company before. He just took 03:22:50
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`on more of the IT responsibilities.
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` And Implicit has produced a lot of
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`emails, some of which are in that '96 to '99 time
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`frame. It's just my emails, that I wasn't as
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`diligent about saving as other people might have. 03:23:06
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` Because the servers that we had initially
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`required each individual to personally archive
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`their in-boxes. So they -- some people did; some
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`people didn't. I didn't.
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` I actually had a policy of not having an 03:23:22
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`in-box with any messages in it by the end of the
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`day. It was just a way of knowing I got through
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`what I got through and usually deleted them.
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`BY MR. McPHIE:
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` Q And is that policy still in place today? 03:23:35
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`Implicit Exhibit 2092
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`MR. HOSIE: Vague and ambiguous. That
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`03:23:38
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`policy.
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`THE WITNESS: No.
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`BY MR. McPHIE:
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`Q When did you -- well, withdrawn.
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`03:23:44
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`When was it that your emails started to
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`be archived on a regular basis?
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`A We never had an archive policy, so there
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`was no archiving on a regular basis. It was more
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`that the server made it easy to do. So if you were 03:24:12
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`so inclined, it was easier to do.
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`Q And when did that happen with respect to
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`your email?
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`MR. HOSIE: Objection. Asked and
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`answered.
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`03:24:22
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`THE WITNESS: As I said, in the 2000 time
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`frame, that became easier for me to do, and I
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`became more diligent about saving my emails.
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`The reason that I did that had less to do
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`with trying to create a history and more to do with 03:24:33
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`the fact that I was now much more conversant with
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`the outside world.
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`And as I started to get into sales in the
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`2000 time frame, keeping a history of the
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`conversations I had with all the different people
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`03:24:50
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`Implicit Exhibit 2092
`Sonos v. Implicit, IPR2018-0766, -0767
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`that I was talking to became more and more
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`03:24:52
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`Confidential
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`important.
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`BY MR. McPHIE:
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`Q One of the things you did as you were
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`talking to faculty members at various universities 03:25:04
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`was you would read up on their research before
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`reaching out to them, correct?
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`MR. HOSIE: Objection. Vague as to time.
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`THE WITNESS: I would usually make it
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`a -- I would usually make an effort to understand
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`03:25:23
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`what the faculty member did before reaching out to
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`them, so I would know whether it was useful to
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`reach out to them.
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`I certainly didn't want to reach out to
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`faculty in neuroscience when I was working on
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`03:25:38
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`computer operating systems.
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`BY MR. McPHIE:
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`Q You read their papers, and you speak
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`their parlance, correct?
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`MR. HOSIE: Objection. Vague and
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`03:25:48
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`ambiguous.
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`THE WITNESS: I think I already spoke
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`their parlance because I was in their field.
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`My goal in reading papers online was to
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`understand whether those professors had any
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`03:26:02
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`Implicit Exhibit 2092
`Sonos v. Implicit, IPR2018-0766, -0767
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