DR. ROMAN CHERTOV - 4/9/2019
`
`Page 1
`
`UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
` ----------------------------
`BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
` ----------------------------
` SONOS, INC.
` Petitioner
`v. IMPLICIT,
`LLC
` Patent Owner
` ----------------------------
` IPR2018-00766 and IPR2018-00767
` U.S. Patent Nos. 7,391,791 and 8,942,252
`
`Videotaped Deposition of Dr. Roman Chertov
` April 9, 2019
`
`HANNA & HANNA, INC.
`713.840.8484
`
`Page 1 of 183
`
`Implicit Exhibit 2094
`Sonos v. Implicit, IPR2018-0766, -0767
`
`
`
`Page 1
`
`UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
` ----------------------------
`BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
` ----------------------------
` SONOS, INC.
` Petitioner
`v. IMPLICIT,
`LLC
` Patent Owner
` ----------------------------
` IPR2018-00766 and IPR2018-00767
` U.S. Patent Nos. 7,391,791 and 8,942,252
`
`Videotaped Deposition of Dr. Roman Chertov
` April 9, 2019
`
`HANNA & HANNA, INC.
`713.840.8484
`
`Page 1 of 183
`
`Implicit Exhibit 2094
`Sonos v. Implicit, IPR2018-0766, -0767
`
`
`
`DR. ROMAN CHERTOV - 4/9/2019
`
`Page 2
`
` The videotaped deposition of DR. ROMAN
`CHERTOV, called by Patent Owner Implicit, LLC, for
`examination, taken before Stephanie A. Battaglia, CSR
`and Notary Public in and for the County of DuPage and
`State of Illinois, at 656 West Randolph Street, Floor
`5W, Chicago, Illinois on April 9, 2019, 9:31 a.m.
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`
`789
`
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`HANNA & HANNA, INC.
`713.840.8484
`
`Page 2 of 183
`
`Implicit Exhibit 2094
`Sonos v. Implicit, IPR2018-0766, -0767
`
`
`
`DR. ROMAN CHERTOV - 4/9/2019
`
`Page 3
`
`PRESENT:
` LEE SULLIVAN SHEA & SMITH LLP
` BY: MR. SEAN M. SULLIVAN
` MR. COLE B. RICHTER
` 656 West Randolph Street, Floor 5W
` Chicago, Illinois 60661
` (312) 754-9602
` e-mail: sullivan@ls3ip.com
` richter@ls3ip.com
` appeared on behalf of the Petitioner;
` DAVIS FIRM, P.C.
` BY: MR. CHRISTIAN HURT
` 213 North Fredonia, Suite 230
` Longview, Texas 75601
` (903) 230-9090
` e-mail: churt@davisfirm.com
` appeared on behalf of the Patent Owner.
`ALSO PRESENT:
` Mr. James Porter, Videographer
` Ms. Stephanie A. Battaglia, CSR, RMR, CRR
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`HANNA & HANNA, INC.
`713.840.8484
`
`Page 3 of 183
`
`Implicit Exhibit 2094
`Sonos v. Implicit, IPR2018-0766, -0767
`
`
`
`DR. ROMAN CHERTOV - 4/9/2019
`
`Page 4
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
` I N D E X
`WITNESS: PAGE:
`Dr. Roman Chertov
`EXAMINATION BY:
`Mr. Hurt 6
`Mr. Sullivan 155
` E X H I B I T S
`Sonos Exhibits
`Exhibit 1022 Declaration of 9
` Roman Chertov
`Exhibit 1025 Filename: 70
` sosisampleclock.h
`Implicit Exhibits
`Exhibit 2017 Filename: 53
` audiosync.c
`Exhibit 2018 Overview 66
` clocksync
`Exhibit 2019 Filename: 44
` timesync.c
`Exhibit 2020 Filename: 47
` clocksync.c
`Exhibit 2021 Using Strings to Compose 31
` Applications from Reusable
` Components
`Exhibit 2028 Source Code 124
` audioplayerapp.rule
`Exhibit 2037 Strings Synchronization Model 42
`Exhibit 2046 Filename: 92
` fanout.c
`Exhibit 2050 Filename: 131
` rgbvideo.c
`Exhibit 2051 Filename: 21
` speaker.c
`
`HANNA & HANNA, INC.
`713.840.8484
`
`Page 4 of 183
`
`Implicit Exhibit 2094
`Sonos v. Implicit, IPR2018-0766, -0767
`
`
`
`DR. ROMAN CHERTOV - 4/9/2019
`
`Page 5
`
`(Cont'd.):
`Exhibit 2056 Source Code 96
` audio.rule
`Exhibit 2063 Source Code 113
` mp3serveraudio.rule
`Exhibit 2065 Source Code 102
` pcmserveraudio.rule
`Exhibit 2066 Source Code 102
` syncaudiorule
`Exhibit 2067 Source Code 113
` syncmp3.rule
`Exhibit 2071 Source Code 127
` videoclient.rule
`Exhibit 2072 Source Code 52
` videomulti.rule
`Exhibit 2086 Source Code 45
` sampleclock.c
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`HANNA & HANNA, INC.
`713.840.8484
`
`Page 5 of 183
`
`Implicit Exhibit 2094
`Sonos v. Implicit, IPR2018-0766, -0767
`
`
`
`DR. ROMAN CHERTOV - 4/9/2019
`
`Page 6
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Today is April 9,
`2019.
` This is the deposition of Dr. Roman
`Chertov in the matter of Sonos, Inc., versus Implicit,
`LLC. We are on the record at 9:31 a.m.
` Will counsel please state their
`appearances, after which the court reporter will swear
`in the witness.
` MR. HURT: Christian Hurt from the Davis
`Firm here this morning on behalf of Implicit.
` MR. SULLIVAN: Sean Sullivan and Cole
`Richter from Lee, Sullivan, Shea & Smith, LLP, on
`behalf of Sonos and the witness.
` DR. ROMAN CHERTOV,
`called as a witness herein, having been first duly
`sworn was examined and testified as follows:
` EXAMINATION
` BY MR. HURT:
` Q. Good morning, Dr. Chertov.
` A. Good morning.
` Q. Did I say your name right?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Have you ever been deposed before?
` A. Yes, I have.
` Q. How many times?
`
`HANNA & HANNA, INC.
`713.840.8484
`
`Page 6 of 183
`
`Implicit Exhibit 2094
`Sonos v. Implicit, IPR2018-0766, -0767
`
`
`
`DR. ROMAN CHERTOV - 4/9/2019
`
`Page 7
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
` A. Twice.
` Q. What types of cases?
` A. One was a civil matter because of a car
`accident and the second one was as a material witness
`in a lawsuit of Sysco versus Arista.
` Q. And in the car accident case, were you
`one of the parties in that case?
` A. Yes. It was a multi-car accident.
` Q. And then you said Ericsson versus Sysco
`case?
` A. Arista.
` Q. Oh, Arista.
` A. Arista versus Sysco.
` Q. So Sysco, and Arista is A-r-i-s-t-a?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And what role did you have in that case?
` A. I was a material witness on the source
`code in regards to the workarounds that Arista
`performed.
` MS. REPORTER: Regards to the
`workarounds of --
` THE WITNESS: That Arista performed.
` MR. SULLIVAN: Arista performed.
`BY MR. HURT:
` Q. Were you hired as an expert in that case?
`
`HANNA & HANNA, INC.
`713.840.8484
`
`Page 7 of 183
`
`Implicit Exhibit 2094
`Sonos v. Implicit, IPR2018-0766, -0767
`
`
`
`DR. ROMAN CHERTOV - 4/9/2019
`
`Page 8
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
` A. No, actually I was employed by Arista. I
`was just a regular full-time employee.
` Q. And are you still employed by Arista?
` A. Yes, I am.
` Q. Other than those two cases have you ever
`been deposed before?
` A. No, I have not.
` Q. You understand that you are under oath
`today as if you were in court in front of a judge or
`jury, right?
` A. Yes, I do.
` Q. Is there any reason you can't give
`truthful testimony today, are you on any medication or
`anything that affects your memory?
` A. No.
` Q. This deposition will probably go like
`your last ones did, your lawyer has probably told you,
`but it is generally a question-and-answer format.
` Because the court reporter is taking
`everything down I just appreciate it if you let me
`finish my question, answer, and I will try not to
`interrupt your answer. Is that okay?
` A. Yes.
` Q. I try to ask pretty clear questions, it
`doesn't always happen that way. If there is something
`
`HANNA & HANNA, INC.
`713.840.8484
`
`Page 8 of 183
`
`Implicit Exhibit 2094
`Sonos v. Implicit, IPR2018-0766, -0767
`
`
`
`DR. ROMAN CHERTOV - 4/9/2019
`
`Page 9
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`I am asking you that is just -- you don't know what I
`am asking, please, feel free to ask me to clarify, but
`if you answer the question I assume you know what I am
`asking. Is that fair?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And we are here today on your declaration
`from March 18 that I think you have it in front of
`you, right?
` A. Yes.
` Q. It is Sonos Exhibit 1022.
` (Document identified as Sonos Exhibit 1022
` for identification.)
`BY MR. HURT:
` Q. And Paragraph 5 -- actually, let me be
`more specific.
` Paragraph 8 under Materials Considered,
`it is on the second page there, are you there?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And it states, "In addition to the
`materials identified" -- in Paragraph 8 it states, "In
`addition to the materials identified in my Opening
`Declarations, I have now reviewed the source code and
`associated documentation produced by Implicit, as well
`as the expert declaration of Dr. Hashmi." Do you see
`that?
`
`HANNA & HANNA, INC.
`713.840.8484
`
`Page 9 of 183
`
`Implicit Exhibit 2094
`Sonos v. Implicit, IPR2018-0766, -0767
`
`
`
`DR. ROMAN CHERTOV - 4/9/2019
`
`Page 10
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
` A. Yes.
` Q. What source code did you review in
`connection with your declaration of Exhibit 1022?
` A. So I took a look at the CVS production
`source code --
` MS. REPORTER: I didn't hear the
`beginning of that.
` THE WITNESS: I took a look at the CVS
`source code that was produced, and specifically I
`looked at the November source code production.
`BY MR. HURT:
` Q. Do you remember if it was the November 1
`production or the November 15 production or both?
` A. Both.
` Q. Did you look at any other production to
`the source code besides the November 1 and November 15
`version?
` A. Very cursory.
` Q. What code did you look at in a cursory
`fashion?
` A. I looked at directory structure.
` MR. SULLIVAN: Do you have an extra copy
`of the deck since he brought one?
` MR. HURT: I apologize.
` MR. SULLIVAN: That is fine. Since he
`
`HANNA & HANNA, INC.
`713.840.8484
`
`Page 10 of 183
`
`Implicit Exhibit 2094
`Sonos v. Implicit, IPR2018-0766, -0767
`
`
`
`DR. ROMAN CHERTOV - 4/9/2019
`
`Page 11
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`brought one I figured it will be helpful with some of
`the terminology.
`BY MR. HURT:
` Q. And then Paragraph 8, sir, mentions
`associated documentation, do you see that?
` A. Yes.
` Q. What was the associated documentation
`that you considered as part of this declaration?
` A. I took a look at the beads of the
`communication, which explains the strings library.
` MS. REPORTER: The --
` THE WITNESS: Strings library.
` MR. SULLIVAN: Strings library.
`BY MR. HURT:
` Q. Did you look at any other documentation?
` A. No.
` Q. About how much time did you spend in
`connection with your declaration as Exhibit 1022?
` A. I don't think I can give you an accurate
`answer. I mean, I can give you an estimate.
` Q. What is your estimate?
` A. It has probably been 60 to 100 hours.
` Q. How much time total have you spent in
`connection on this case?
` A. Well, I would have to take a look.
`
`HANNA & HANNA, INC.
`713.840.8484
`
`Page 11 of 183
`
`Implicit Exhibit 2094
`Sonos v. Implicit, IPR2018-0766, -0767
`
`
`
`DR. ROMAN CHERTOV - 4/9/2019
`
`Page 12
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
` Q. You don't have any idea?
` A. I would have to consult my invoices.
` Q. Do you think it is more than 200 hours?
` A. Probably less.
` Q. More than 150?
` A. I couldn't tell you.
` Q. Flip to Paragraph 24, which is Page 7.
` It states, "The construction of rendering
`time I have applied and used in formulating my
`opinions is a time measure of the amount of content
`that has already been rendered by a given rendering
`device." Do you see that?
` A. Yes, I do.
` Q. And that is the construction you also
`applied in your first declaration, Exhibit 1009,
`right?
` A. Correct.
` Q. And you applied it the same way I assume,
`is that true?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Have you analyzed the Implicit source
`code under instruction of rendering time that is
`different than the one here in Paragraph 24?
` A. I have not.
` Q. In connection with your review of the
`
`HANNA & HANNA, INC.
`713.840.8484
`
`Page 12 of 183
`
`Implicit Exhibit 2094
`Sonos v. Implicit, IPR2018-0766, -0767
`
`
`
`DR. ROMAN CHERTOV - 4/9/2019
`
`Page 13
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`source code did you export any source code from the
`CVS repository?
` A. Yes, I have.
` Q. How did you do that?
` A. I used the same CVS commands that I
`believe Dr. Hashmi used.
` Q. And what commands were those, if you
`remember?
` A. I couldn't tell you the exact command,
`but I vaguely recall it is CVS checkout.
` Q. Was it based on a certain checkout date?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And what was the date?
` A. So I checked out November 1 and
`November 15.
` Q. Any other versions besides those two?
` A. I think I did checkout something else,
`but I don't recall the exact date.
` Q. Did you in performing your analysis use
`the source code files that were checked out or -- let
`me ask it this way.
` You understand that there has been
`certain source code files that have been -- that have
`printouts that are exhibits in this proceeding, right?
` A. Correct.
`
`HANNA & HANNA, INC.
`713.840.8484
`
`Page 13 of 183
`
`Implicit Exhibit 2094
`Sonos v. Implicit, IPR2018-0766, -0767
`
`
`
`DR. ROMAN CHERTOV - 4/9/2019
`
`Page 14
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
` Q. And when you conducted your analysis did
`you use those exhibits?
` A. I used both.
` Q. Was there any difference between the two
`of them?
` A. No.
` Q. I am going to make sure I have it right,
`two of them meaning source code you checked out with
`the November 1, 2001 checkout date was the same as the
`source code in the exhibits that had the November 1
`checkout date, is that right?
` A. Correct.
` Q. And then the source code you checked out
`that had a November 15 checkout date, that was the
`same as the exhibits in this proceeding that have a
`November 15 checkout date, is that also right?
` A. I need to double check November 15 with
`the exhibits, I need to double check November 1 with
`exhibits and the Hashmi report.
` Q. At least for November 1 it is all
`consistent?
` A. It is all lined up.
` MS. REPORTER: What was that?
` THE WITNESS: It all lined up.
` MR. SULLIVAN: Just make sure you take
`
`HANNA & HANNA, INC.
`713.840.8484
`
`Page 14 of 183
`
`Implicit Exhibit 2094
`Sonos v. Implicit, IPR2018-0766, -0767
`
`
`
`DR. ROMAN CHERTOV - 4/9/2019
`
`Page 15
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`your time and slow down.
` MS. REPORTER: Can I ask you to speak up
`a little louder?
` MR. SULLIVAN: Do you need a earphone
`line?
` MS. REPORTER: Yes.
` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Off the record 9:45.
` (Recess taken.)
` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Back on the record at
`9:48 a.m.
`BY MR. HURT:
` Q. Ready to continue, Dr. Chertov?
` A. Yes, I am.
` Q. And you understand you are still under
`oath?
` A. Yes.
` Q. How did you get the CVS archive that you
`used to export the source code?
` A. It was provided to me by Cole Richter.
` Q. And do you -- how was it provided to you
`by Mr. Richter?
` A. He created a Dropbox folder.
` Q. Do you remember what the date modified
`was on the CVS archive?
` A. I don't remember.
`
`HANNA & HANNA, INC.
`713.840.8484
`
`Page 15 of 183
`
`Implicit Exhibit 2094
`Sonos v. Implicit, IPR2018-0766, -0767
`
`
`
`DR. ROMAN CHERTOV - 4/9/2019
`
`Page 16
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
` Q. Do you know where -- what source
`Mr. Richter got it from?
` A. I don't know.
` Q. You assume it is from Implicit, right?
` A. Yes.
` Q. But you don't know if it was from one
`version of the repository or another version, is that
`fair?
` A. Well, I mean, it was the CVS repository
`which contained all the check-in dates. The
`November 1 version of the source code lined up with
`all Dr. Hashmi citations in his declarations.
` Q. So you believe you were looking at the
`right code then?
` A. Correct.
` Q. Paragraph 24 of your declaration here on
`Page 7 has the construction of rendering time that you
`applied, right?
` A. Correct.
` Q. And your declaration doesn't have a
`construction of the term synchronized, does it?
` A. It does not explicitly state it.
` Q. Or a synchronization, right?
` A. As I recall it doesn't state.
` Q. To determine whether the rendering at the
`
`HANNA & HANNA, INC.
`713.840.8484
`
`Page 16 of 183
`
`Implicit Exhibit 2094
`Sonos v. Implicit, IPR2018-0766, -0767
`
`
`
`DR. ROMAN CHERTOV - 4/9/2019
`
`Page 17
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`master would have been synchronized with the slave,
`what definition did you apply for synchronization?
` A. I used the common meaning of
`synchronized.
` Q. And what is that?
` A. And the common meaning is playing content
`at the same position at the same time.
` Q. And when you say the same position at the
`same time, I mean, do you mean same exact time or is
`there some wiggle room in there for 10 milliseconds or
`50 milliseconds or something that would not be humanly
`perceptible?
` A. In the basic common definition of it you
`try to play the same time, meaning both devices output
`sound at the same time instant.
` Q. So if someone is listening to the two
`speakers at the same time and they can't tell that
`they are out of sync, in your opinion -- let me ask --
`strike that.
` So do you have any tolerance on how in
`sync the playing of the content has to be?
` A. This is not information in my report and
`also sitting here right now I couldn't tell you --
` Q. Okay.
` A. -- the exact tolerance level. I would
`
`HANNA & HANNA, INC.
`713.840.8484
`
`Page 17 of 183
`
`Implicit Exhibit 2094
`Sonos v. Implicit, IPR2018-0766, -0767
`
`
`
`DR. ROMAN CHERTOV - 4/9/2019
`
`Page 18
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`need to research.
` Q. But do you agree with me that there would
`be some amount of tolerance that would be allowed and
`the content would be synchronized?
` A. I don't know.
` Q. So under your report -- let me ask this
`way.
` So under your declaration if the content
`was off by 1 millisecond would the devices be
`synchronized?
` A. Based on the construction that I used the
`devices need to play to the same time.
` Q. So if they are off by 1 millisecond they
`are not synchronized, right?
` A. Are you asking me if they always off by 1
`millisecond or at times might be off by 1 millisecond?
` Q. Let's say they are always off by exactly
`1 millisecond.
` A. Then I would say they are not
`synchronized.
` Q. What about a tenth of a millisecond?
` A. As I said previously, I don't think I can
`give you an accurate threshold level.
` Q. I want to make sure I have this right.
` Your common meaning of synchronization
`
`HANNA & HANNA, INC.
`713.840.8484
`
`Page 18 of 183
`
`Implicit Exhibit 2094
`Sonos v. Implicit, IPR2018-0766, -0767
`
`
`
`DR. ROMAN CHERTOV - 4/9/2019
`
`Page 19
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`that you applied in your analysis was that the master
`device and the slave device would have to play content
`at the same position at the same time, is that right?
` A. Correct.
` Q. And in your opinion the Implicit -- the
`system described in the Implicit source code does not
`do that, is that right?
` A. Correct, that is in my declaration.
` Q. Do you have any opinion about how out of
`sync the two devices would be under the Implicit
`source code?
` A. I have no idea.
` Q. So it could be -- you just don't know?
` A. I don't know because it is a function of
`the device CPU and network capability, you know, many
`factors.
` Q. But in your opinion the master device is
`always going to be ahead of the slave device such that
`they are out of sync, is that true?
` A. That is what I stated in my declaration.
` Q. Let's go to Paragraph 75, there is
`actually a figure there on Page 31. Let me know when
`you are there.
` And in this situation you have a master
`device up top, right?
`
`HANNA & HANNA, INC.
`713.840.8484
`
`Page 19 of 183
`
`Implicit Exhibit 2094
`Sonos v. Implicit, IPR2018-0766, -0767
`
`
`
`DR. ROMAN CHERTOV - 4/9/2019
`
`Page 20
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
` A. Correct.
` Q. And a slave device on the bottom, right?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And your opinion is that the master will
`play the audio first for two reasons, the first is
`that the fanout will pass the message to the speaker
`before fanout passes the same message to clocksync,
`framer, UDP, IP, et cetera, down this flow, correct?
` A. As I stated in my declaration the code
`for the fanout bead will send the message first to the
`FanoutIndex0, then in iterative fashion it will notify
`the FanoutIndex1. This implies that FanoutIndex1 --
`0 -- excuse me, will begin to execute first.
` Q. And the second reason is -- okay.
` In this scenario because the Fanout index
`executes first in your opinion the audio at the master
`will play before it is indexed at Index 1,
`transmitted, processed, and played on a slave device,
`is that right?
` A. Correct.
` In my report I state that the speaker
`bead will play the sound before the audio will arrive
`on the slave device.
` Q. And in this situation you have a local
`master and a remote slave, right?
`
`HANNA & HANNA, INC.
`713.840.8484
`
`Page 20 of 183
`
`Implicit Exhibit 2094
`Sonos v. Implicit, IPR2018-0766, -0767
`
`
`
`DR. ROMAN CHERTOV - 4/9/2019
`
`Page 21
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
` A. I am not sure what you mean by local
`master.
` Q. Let me ask it this way.
` You have the master device is the device
`that plays the audio on FanoutIndex0, right?
` A. The master device is the diagram on the
`top.
` Q. Sure.
` A. It has a FanoutIndex0 and also has a
`FanoutIndex1.
` Q. And the master device plays the audio
`through FanoutIndex0, right?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And in your opinion there is no delay or
`adjustment in the speaker bead, right?
` A. If we go to -- give me a moment.
` Q. Sure.
` Where are you looking?
` A. I am looking just before the diagram for
`the citation, give me a moment.
` (Document identified as Implicit Exhibit
` 2051 for identification.)
` THE WITNESS: Yes, if you look at
`Paragraph 73, Page 29, the last sentence, so if you
`look at Exhibit 2051, which is the speaker bead
`
`HANNA & HANNA, INC.
`713.840.8484
`
`Page 21 of 183
`
`Implicit Exhibit 2094
`Sonos v. Implicit, IPR2018-0766, -0767
`
`
`
`DR. ROMAN CHERTOV - 4/9/2019
`
`Page 22
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`implementation of this code, actually the audio
`comments states there is no delay.
`BY MR. HURT:
` Q. So there is -- back to this diagram,
`there is no delay in your opinion on the audio playing
`through the speaker bead at the master?
` A. This is correct.
` Q. Assume with me that the Fanout indexes
`are reversed and Fanout0 is the path that has
`clocksync, framer, UDP, IP, and that Fanout1 goes to
`the speaker bead, are you with me?
` A. So you are asking me to swap the indexes?
` Q. Yes.
` A. Okay.
` Q. Is your opinion still that the master and
`slave will not sync -- render content in sync?
` MR. SULLIVAN: Object to the form of the
`question, incomplete hypothetical, outside the scope
`of his direct testimony.
` THE WITNESS: As I outlined in my report,
`in all of the rule files that we have examined the
`speaker bead is always in the FanoutIndex0, so I
`believe the intent of the developers was that the
`speaker bead run first.
` MS. REPORTER: Speaker bead?
`
`HANNA & HANNA, INC.
`713.840.8484
`
`Page 22 of 183
`
`Implicit Exhibit 2094
`Sonos v. Implicit, IPR2018-0766, -0767
`
`
`
`DR. ROMAN CHERTOV - 4/9/2019
`
`Page 23
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
` THE WITNESS: The speaker bead was
`supposed to run first.
` MR. HURT: Round?
` MR. SULLIVAN: Run, run first, r-u-n.
`BY MR. HURT:
` Q. What about in the situation where the
`device that has Fanout0 is the slave device, do you
`follow me on that?
` MR. SULLIVAN: Object to the form of the
`question.
` THE WITNESS: Are you asking me if --
`BY MR. HURT:
` Q. Let me ask you this.
` Can you assume with me that the device
`that has Fanout0 on it is the slave device that will
`adjust the playback using the clocksync and audiosync
`beads prior to the speaker, can you assume that?
` MR. SULLIVAN: Object to the form of the
`question, incomplete hypothetical, beyond the scope.
` THE WITNESS: It would be easier if you
`had an example in one of the exhibits.
`BY MR. HURT:
` Q. Okay.
` You can't --
` MR. SULLIVAN: What is the question?
`
`HANNA & HANNA, INC.
`713.840.8484
`
`Page 23 of 183
`
`Implicit Exhibit 2094
`Sonos v. Implicit, IPR2018-0766, -0767
`
`
`
`DR. ROMAN CHERTOV - 4/9/2019
`
`Page 24
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`BY MR. HURT:
` Q. Let me ask it this way.
` Without one of the exhibits, you can't
`engage with that hypothetical?
` MR. SULLIVAN: Object to the form of the
`question, the same as above.
` THE WITNESS: Your question is if the
`master device, which is labeled up top, and the
`FanoutIndex0 can mean many things, because it depends
`on what are other beads in the index, right?
`BY MR. HURT:
` Q. Well, let me ask you this then.
` Assume that -- can you assume that
`FanoutIndex0, this box, includes the clocksync bead
`and the audiosync bead prior -- in the path prior to
`the speaker bead on the decode edge of those beads?
` A. So you are asking me to insert
`clocksync/audiosync in front of the speaker bead in
`the FanoutIndex0?
` Q. Yes.
` And then, conversely, on the slave device
`you have the clocksync on the encode edge and just the
`speaker bead, no audiosync bead, are you following
`that?
` A. Okay.
`
`HANNA & HANNA, INC.
`713.840.8484
`
`Page 24 of 183
`
`Implicit Exhibit 2094
`Sonos v. Implicit, IPR2018-0766, -0767
`
`
`
`DR. ROMAN CHERTOV - 4/9/2019
`
`Page 25
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
` Q. Such that the slave device is designating
`the master times under the clocksync bead, are you
`following me?
` A. Somewhat.
` Q. In that scenario in your opinion are the
`devices rendering content in sync?
` MR. SULLIVAN: Object to the form of the
`question, incomplete hypothetical, beyond the scope of
`his direct testimony.
` THE WITNESS: I would begin to take over
`the precise diagram to render an opinion if the
`devices under this construction play the same time,
`and also I would need to construct the source code to
`double check the beads will function correctly because
`it lays implicit dependency, as I outline in the
`report, the speaker bead and the clocksync bead.
`BY MR. HURT:
` Q. And what is that dependent, sir?
` A. So as I outlined in my declaration
`speaker bead needs to update the clock using the
`update function.
` The Paragraph 63, Page 24, second to last
`sentence, the speaker bead calls Update function via
`the ISampleClock interface structure. This update
`then gets consumed by the clocksync.
`
`HANNA & HANNA, INC.
`713.840.8484
`
`Page 25 of 183
`
`Implicit Exhibit 2094
`Sonos v. Implicit, IPR2018-0766, -0767
`
`
`
`DR. ROMAN CHERTOV - 4/9/2019
`
`Page 26
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
` If you go to Paragraph 67, the very first
`sentence, "Second, as described above, the clocksync
`bead in the Fanout1 path functions to read the
`SAMPLECLOCK data structure that is updated by the
`speaker bead in the Fanout0 path, which is consistent
`with a design in which clocksync bead in the Fanout1
`path was not run until after the speaker bead in the
`Fanout0 path updated the SAMPLECLOCK data structure."
` Essentially this means that there is an
`implicit dependency in the ordering in my opinion with
`the speaker bead is to run first and the clocksync
`bead will need to run after to get the updated value.
`BY MR. HURT:
` Q. Is it your opinion, sir, that no matter
`the configuration the master and slave devices will
`never play audio in sync?
` MR. SULLIVAN: Object to the form of the
`question, beyond the scope of his direct testimony.
` THE WITNESS: In all of the rule files I
`have examined provided in the CVS repository it was
`always the case the master will play first.
`BY MR. HURT:
` Q. The master will play first?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Assume with me that it would be the case
`
`HANNA & HANNA, INC.
`713.840.8484
`
`Page 26 of 183
`
`Implicit Exhibit 2094
`Sonos v. Implicit, IPR2018-0766, -0767
`
`
`
`DR. ROMAN CHERTOV - 4/9/2019
`
`Page 27
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`that the slave device would play first, can you make
`that assumption?
` A. In a hypothetical scenario where the
`slave plays first, okay.
` Q. In that scenario based on the code you
`reviewed would the master and slave devices play in
`sync?
` MR. SULLIVAN: Object to the form of the
`question, incomplete hypothetical, beyond the scope of
`direct.
` THE WITNESS: I think based on the code
`it is impossible.
`BY MR. HURT:
` Q. Why is that?
` A. Because in all of the code and all of the
`rule files that I have examined the FanIndex0 needs to
`run first before the master can send the audio to the
`slave. If somehow the slave is playing audio first
`means that to receive this audio in some other means
`and therefore it is not -- wouldn't be a slave.
` Q. It sounds like if there is in the code
`somewhere a situation with -- let me ask it this way.
` So in your opinion all the code you
`looked at had the master device playing the audio
`first, is that right?
`
`HANNA & HANNA, INC.
`713.840.8484
`
`Page 27 of 183
`
`Implicit Exhibit 2094
`Sonos v. Implicit, IPR2018-0766, -0767
`
`
`
`DR. ROMAN CHERTOV - 4/9/2019
`
`Page 28
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
` A. Correct.
` Q. And in all of those situations the master
`was playing the audio based on FanoutIndex0, is that
`right?
` A. Correct.
` Q. And you don't have an opinion if the
`master is playing under a Fanout index that is
`different than 0, right?
` MR. SULLIVAN: Object to the form of the
`question.
` THE WITNESS: I have not seen any cases
`in the rule files provided by Implicit where the
`master plays on some other index other than
`FanoutIndex0.
`BY MR. HURT:
` Q. If there is a situation in which the
`master is playing on a Fanout index that is different
`than 0, such as Fanout1 or Fanout2, you don't have an
`opinion as to whether that would have the audio play
`in sync between the master and the slave, right?
` R. SULLIVAN: Object to the form of the
`question.
` THE WITNESS: As I stated previously in
`my declaration I have not compiled or ran the Implicit
`source code. I have looked at the source code based
`
`HANNA & HANNA, INC.
`713.840.8484
`
`Page 28 of 183
`
`Implicit Exhibit 2094
`
Accessing this document will incur an additional charge of $.
After purchase, you can access this document again without charge.
Accept $ Charge
Still Working On It
This document is taking longer than usual to download. This can happen if we need to contact the court directly to obtain the document and their servers are running slowly.
Give it another minute or two to complete, and then try the refresh button.
A few More Minutes ... Still Working
It can take up to 5 minutes for us to download a document if the court servers are running slowly.
Thank you for your continued patience.
This document could not be displayed.
We could not find this document within its docket. Please go back to the docket page and check the link. If that does not work, go back to the docket and refresh it to pull the newest information.
Your account does not support viewing this document.
You need a Paid Account to view this document. Click here to change your account type.
Your account does not support viewing this document.
Set your membership
status to view this document.
With a Docket Alarm membership, you'll
get a whole lot more, including:
- Up-to-date information for this case.
- Email alerts whenever there is an update.
- Full text search for other cases.
- Get email alerts whenever a new case matches your search.
One Moment Please
The filing “” is large (MB) and is being downloaded.
Please refresh this page in a few minutes to see if the filing has been downloaded. The filing will also be emailed to you when the download completes.
Your document is on its way!
If you do not receive the document in five minutes, contact support at support@docketalarm.com.
Sealed Document
We are unable to display this document, it may be under a court ordered seal.
If you have proper credentials to access the file, you may proceed directly to the court's system using your government issued username and password.
Access Government Site
