`_____________
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`BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`_____________
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`HUAWEI DEVICE CO. LTD.,
`Petitioner,
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`v.
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`OPTIS WIRELESS TECHNOLOGY, LLC,
`Patent Owner
`_____________
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`Case IPR2018-00653 (Patent 8,208,569B2)
`Case IPR2018-00655 (Patent 8,208,569B2)
`___________
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`Record of Oral Hearing
`Held June 24, 2019
`_____________
`
`
`
`
`
`
`Before MIRIAM L. QUINN, JOHN PINKERTON, KEVIN TURNER,
`Administrative Patent Judges.
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`Case IPR2018-00653 (Patent 8,208,569B2)
`Case IPR2018-00655 (Patent 8,208,569B2)
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`APPEARANCES:
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`
`ON BEHALF OF PETITIONER:
` PETER P. CHEN, ESQUIRE
` COVINGTON & BURLING, LLP
` 3000 El Camino Real
` 5 Palo Alt Square
` Palo Alto, CA 94306-2112
` 650-632-4720
`
`
`ON BEHALF OF THE PATENT OWNER:
` BARRY J. BUMGARDNER, ESQUIRE
` CHRIS GRANAGHAN, ESQUIRE
` BRENT J. BUMGARDNER, ESQUIRE
` NELSON BUMGARDNER ALBRITTON
` 3131 West 7th Street
` Suite 300
` Fort Worth, TX 76107
` 817-377-3494
`
`
`ALSO PRESENT: PAUL HASHIM, MANDY ZHON, on behalf of Petitioner
` JAMES WARDEN, on behalf of Patent Owner
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`
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`The above-entitled matter came on for hearing on June 24, 2019,
`commencing at 1:00 p.m., at the Dallas Terminal Annex Federal Building of
`the United States Patent and Trademark Office, 207 South Houston Street,
`Suite 159, Dallas, TX 75202.
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`P R O C E E D I N G S
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` (Proceedings begin at 1:00 p.m.)
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` JUDGE PINKERTON: Good afternoon to everyone. This
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`is going to be a combined oral hearing in two IPRs,
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`2018-00653 and -00655, between the Petitioner, Huawei, and the
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`Patent Owner, Optis Wireless. And it concerns U.S. Patent
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`8,208,569, which we're going to be referring to as the '569
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`Patent.
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` My name is John Pinkerton, Judge Pinkerton. With me
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`today here in Dallas is Judge Quinn and via video from San
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`Jose, California is Judge Turner. So let's begin with
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`appearances, beginning with the Petitioner.
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` Petitioner, if you'll step up to the podium,
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`introduce yourself, and let us know who you have with you
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`today.
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` MR. CHEN: Good afternoon and good morning, Your
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`Honors. Thank you very much. I am Peter Chen from Covington
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`and Burling, counsel for the Petitioner, Huawei Device Company
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`Ltd. With me today are two colleagues from Huawei's facility
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`here in Plano, Paul Hashim and Mandy Zhon. Thank you very
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`much.
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` JUDGE PINKERTON: Welcome. Good to have you all.
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`Okay.
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` Patent Owner, you -- introduce yourself, please?
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` MR. BUMGARDNER: Certainly, Your Honor. My name is
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`Barry Bumgardner. I'm here on behalf of the firm Nelson
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`Bumgardner Albritton. Also with me from my firm today is
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`Chris Granaghan and Brent Bumgardner, and then from Patent
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`Owner's representative is Mr. James Warden.
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` JUDGE PINKERTON: Okay. Thank you very much.
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`Welcome to the Board all of you, and also welcome to the Texas
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`Regional Office of the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office.
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`We'll hit on a couple of preliminary measures before we get
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`started.
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` First of all, because Judge Turner is with us
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`remotely, there are a couple of things we need to remember.
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`Number one, with respect to the microphone, he will not be
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`able to hear you unless you're talking in the microphone. So
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`if you're going to talk, be sure to come up to the podium
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`before you say anything. Secondly, in regard to the screen,
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`Judge Turner will not be able to see what's projected on the
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`screen -- this screen, so if you refer to demonstrative,
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`exhibits, or any other evidence, be sure to state the
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`particular slide or exhibit by number so that he can track it
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`on his computer.
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` In regard to time and the order today, each side is
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`going to have 30 minutes. Petitioner, you will have 30
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`minutes of total time to present arguments. You may, if you
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`would like, reserve time for rebuttal.
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` Would you like to reserve some time, and if so, how
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`much?
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` JUDGE TURNER: I'm not sure if you can hear me.
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` JUDGE PINKERTON: We can.
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` JUDGE TURNER: Because I -- we have no audio here in
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` JUDGE PINKERTON: That's because I just turned on my
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`mic, Judge Turner, and I'm sorry about that.
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` JUDGE TURNER: I didn't hear the parties either, so
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`– we have radio silence here, so if you can -- and I didn't
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`want to interrupt you, John, but, like -- you know,
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`interrupting your initial spiel because I could see from the
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`glass that you were talking because there's a reflection. But
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`other than that, I have -- I know the hearing order, so I
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`don't think I need to hear that again.
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` JUDGE PINKERTON: Okay. So --
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` JUDGE TURNER: That's fine; we can continue. I'm --
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`I can hear you now. Thank you.
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` JUDGE PINKERTON: For your benefit, we'll ask each
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`counsel to, once again, introduce themselves.
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` For the Petitioner?
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` MR. CHEN: Yes, Your Honor. Peter Chen from
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`Covington and Burling for Petitioner, Huawei Device Company
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`Ltd., and hoping that Judge Turner is able to hear that.
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` JUDGE TURNER: Is your mic on there; may I ask you
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`Mr. Chen?
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` MR. CHEN: Yes, it appears to be.
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` JUDGE TURNER: That's far better.
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` MR. CHEN: Okay. I saw the green light. I
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`apologize, Your Honor. I saw the green light and now it's
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`very bright green.
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` JUDGE TURNER: I could hear you through Judge
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`Pinkerton's mic, but you were kind of faint, and so when --
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`there's no need to do introductions. I'm happy to let you
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`start, and I think we're fine. And I'll turn it over to Judge
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`Pinkerton.
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` JUDGE PINKERTON: Well, let's get the Patent Owner's
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`introduction for you.
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` If you would, please, once again?
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` MR. BUMGARDNER: Certainly, Judge Pinkerton.
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` Judge Turner, my name is Barry Bumgardner. I'm here
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`on behalf of Patent Owner, and with me today are two of my
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`colleagues from law firm, as well as a client representative.
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` JUDGE PINKERTON: Thank you very much.
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` MR. BUMGARDNER: And Judge Pinkerton, if -- I have
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`one preliminary question I would like to ask before we get
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`started, if that's okay with --
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` JUDGE PINKERTON: Sure.
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` MR. BUMGARDNER: And that question is, would it be
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`acceptable if Mr. Granaghan had a chair here to flip through
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`the slides? If he just, kind of, pulled a chair in front here
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`or would that cause any problems for this panel?
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` JUDGE PINKERTON: I think that would be fine once
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`you start your presentation.
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` MR. BUMGARDNER: Certainly. Okay. Thank you very
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`much.
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` JUDGE PINKERTON: Yes.
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` JUDGE TURNER: (indiscernible)
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` JUDGE PINKERTON: Mr. Chen, did you want to reserve
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` MR. CHEN: Yes, thank you, Your Honor. Petitioner
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`would like to reserve five minutes for rebuttal. Thank you.
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` JUDGE PINKERTON: Okay.
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` Patent Owner, you also have 30 minutes total time.
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`Would you like to reserve some time for sur-rebuttal?
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` MR. BUMGARDNER: I would like to reserve seven
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`minutes please, Your Honor.
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` JUDGE PINKERTON: Okay. Seven minutes it is.
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` So Patent Owner, let me remind you of one thing,
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`which is in our order -- setting the oral argument that Patent
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`Owner's sur-rebuttal must be limited in scope to any issues that
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`are raised by the Petitioner during his rebuttal time.
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` MR. BUMGARDNER: With that -- thank you for
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`reminding me of that, Your Honor. If I could do five minutes
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`then instead?
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` JUDGE PINKERTON: Okay.
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` MR. BUMGARDNER: All right. Thank you.
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` JUDGE PINKERTON: Five minutes it is.
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` With respect to objections, we ask that counsel not
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`interrupt the other party to state any objections. If you
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`think that arguments being made, there's a demonstrative that
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`doesn't have evidence that was previously presented, please,
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`if you would, wait until your presentation to make that
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`objection.
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` If -- do either of you have demonstratives that you
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`would like to present us with today? If you do, please bring
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`those forward at this time.
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` MR. BUMGARDNER: And these were what was filed, Your
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`Honor.
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` JUDGE PINKERTON: Okay. Thank you very much.
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` JUDGE QUINN: Thank you.
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` JUDGE PINKERTON: Do you have one for the court
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`reporter by any chance?
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` MR. BUMGARDNER: Court reporter already has mine, so
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`-- we met earlier before this, so --
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` JUDGE PINKERTON: Very efficient, thank you very
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` Mr. Chen, you don't have demonstratives to present?
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` MR. CHEN: Your Honor, nothing over and above what
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`we filed last week, and we have given a hard copy to the court
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`reporter. Thank you.
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` JUDGE PINKERTON: Okay.
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` JUDGE QUINN: Thank you.
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` JUDGE PINKERTON: Thank you very much.
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`start? Okay.
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` Then Mr. Petitioner, why don't you go ahead and
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`begin?
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` JUDGE QUINN: Just a reminder that the timer is
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`rebuttal time.
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` MR. CHEN: Thank you, Your Honor. Thank you. And
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`may I please the Board? I'm Peter Chen, counsel for
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`Petitioner, Huawei Device Company Ltd. Pursuant to the
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`Board's hearing order, I'll be presenting Petitioner's
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`argument with some remarks on the demonstrative slides and
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`responses to questions from Your Honors.
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` Going to Slide 2, the Board instituted trial on the
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`petition's two-reference ground of Wallace and Ishikawa.
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`Based on this reference, Huawei is challenging all of the
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`claims in the '569 Patent. We filed two petitions; the 653
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`IPR is directed at the apparatus claims, 11 through 20, 31
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`through 40, 43, and 44. The 655 IPR is directed at the method
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`claims of the '569 Patent.
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` At a very high-level, the '569 Patent generally
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`relates to error correction, coding of data in wireless
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`communication system. Error correction performance in
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`wireless systems, according to the '569 Patent, can decrease
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`with variance in signal to noise ratio. We'll look at the
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`precise language of the claimed invention momentarily and how
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`the inventors attempted to address the affects of variance of
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`signal to noise ratio on error correction performance.
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` Huawei's burden of proof is preponderance of the
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`evidence. Huawei has met that burden based on the record
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`developed during trial, including the testimony of the two
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`expert witnesses; Huawei's expert declarant Dr. Wells and the
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`PanOptis expert, Dr. Womack.
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` Slide 3, a high-level overview of Ground I, the
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`combination of Wallace and Ishikawa; Wallace teaching the
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`mapping of data to symbols and groups of symbols in a time
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`frequency, two-dimensional grid or domain, Ishikawa adding the
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`remaining element of mapping data in an increasing order,
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`according to the frequency index.
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` Now, Slide 4 summarizes the major issues in dispute.
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`The Patent Owner has not disputed the teachings of Ishikawa or
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`the petition showing on motivation to combine Wallace with
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`Ishikawa; which leaves as the primary disputes as follows:
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`First, the broadest reasonable interpretation, this is a BRI
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`case, of the phrases "group of symbols" and "groups of
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`symbols" where the Patent Owner has proposed in its Patent
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`Owner response that these phrases require arrangements of
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`symbols to exist prior to the mapping of the data.
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` JUDGE QUINN: Is the issue really what are groups of
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`symbols? Because it seems that both parties agree on the
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`construction of that term. It seems it's more of the action
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`of mapping and whether that mapping needs to include some
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`predetermined arrangement.
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` MR. CHEN: I think that's right, Your Honor, in that
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`the -- as we read the Patent Owner response, they're focusing
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`on the words in that limitation to which data is mapped. So
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`they are stating that from those words to which data is mapped
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`must be superimposed as part of the broadest reasonable
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`interpretation, the pre-existence of symbols to which that
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`data is mapped.
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` JUDGE QUINN: So have you supplied any construction
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`of mapping that is consistent with how you've applied it to
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`Wallace?
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` MR. CHEN: Yes, Your Honor. We believe that there's
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`no -- there's certainly nothing in the claims, and we don't
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`believe that under Federal Circuit law, there should be any
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`importation into the claims of any aspect of predetermination
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`of the symbols or groups of symbols prior to the mapping. So
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`that's how we've applied it. We've analyzed the claim in
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`light of Wallace, such that, there is mapping of data to
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`symbols, and the symbols do not pre-exist or are not
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`predetermined in advance of the mapping. There's nothing in
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`the claims that requires that and our analysis has followed
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`along those lines.
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` JUDGE QUINN: To play devil's advocate, if I say I'm
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`mapping an arrangement, then I am acting on something that
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`already exists, an arrangement exists. So if an arrangement
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`exists at the time of mapping, that's what you are executing;
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`the arrangement. So the question is that the mapping does
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`imply that there is some pre-existence of something, it's a
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`question of how far back that arrangement needs to be included
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`with that mapping; don't you agree?
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` MR. CHEN: That is a fair inference, Your Honor. I
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`guess my response would be on multiple basis.
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` First of all, again, there's nothing in the claim
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`that gets to that level of detail. The claim is very broadly
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`drafted. There is also a completely separate and distinct
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`possibility of mapping to symbols that essentially come
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`together at the point of mapping. The Patent Owner
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`preliminary response at pages, I think, 16 and 17 or 17 and 18
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`refer to just that possibility, so that it's not something
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`that we see in the claim, and it's not something that jumps
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`out of the specification.
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` Nowhere in the figures or the Column 7 or 8 of the
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`'569 Patent is there the phrasing predetermined, pre-existing,
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`prior. They just talk about arrangements of symbols pursuant
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`to instructions. In fact, there is a statement in Column 7,
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`which refers to Figure 7, which the Patent Owner has cited in
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`favor of its -- in support of its proposed construction, where
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`the patent speaks of -- I want to make sure I say this
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`correctly, and this is after the explication of what Your
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`Honor just referred to; arranging code blocks.
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` And at Column 7, Line 56, it states "It is possible
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`to determine such a code block arrangement, for example, by
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`combining modes of one code block described in the format
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`tables A and B described in Figure 7, by trial and error
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`and the total evaluation of one frame every time."
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` So I will admit, that sentence is not a model --
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`that sentence is not necessarily a model of clarity, but the
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`phrase trial and error suggests that the Patentees were
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`cognizant that you could have mapping to symbols or groups of
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`symbols that were not necessarily predetermined, pre-existing,
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`that you have a trial and error on-the-fly type of
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`functionality.
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` So that also, we believe, mitigates -- militates
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`against importing into the claims these limitations that
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`Patent Owner's arguing should be there when nothing in the
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`claims speaks to this. And certainly, Your Honor, the
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`Patentees had every opportunity to insert into these
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`independent claims this concept of a pre-existing group of
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`symbols, and there are multiple claims where the Patentee did
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`so with respect to other aspects of the functionality.
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` So if I may, I would cite to Claims 4, 14, 24, and
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`34; all of which state generally that a number of symbols for
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`the encoded second data is configured to be changed at a
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`predetermined interval -- so there's that word, predetermined.
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` Then going to the last set of claims, Your Honor,
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`Claims 41 through 44, the word predetermined is present again
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`when they speak -- recite about predetermined number of
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`symbols when the mapping exceeds a predetermined number of
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`symbols.
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` So, clearly, the applicants were fully well-aware of
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`the ability to claim temporal concepts, and they did so as to
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`the number of symbols in 41 through 44, and they did so with
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`respect to intervals of time, yet that word predetermined does
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`not appear in any of the independent claims in which they are
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`asking this Board to inject, from the specification into the
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`claims, the concept or limitation that the groups of symbols
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`be predetermined prior to the mapping.
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` So if I may continue --
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` JUDGE QUINN: So --
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` MR. CHEN: Yes?
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`is that dependent claims include the concept of predetermined
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`symbols or arrangements; in the end, it's an arrangement?
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` MR. CHEN: Yes.
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` JUDGE QUINN: Then the independent claim must be
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`broad enough to cover also the non-predetermined arrangements?
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` MR. CHEN: That's part of it, Your Honor. And the
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`other part is, again, these applicants were fully capable of
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`adding and narrowing the independent claims to that effect,
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`just evidenced by the fact that they did so on the dependent
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`claims.
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` JUDGE QUINN: Okay.
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` MR. CHEN: So the other issues in dispute, in
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`addition to the pre-existing -- the allegedly pre-existing
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`nature of groups of symbols, one of those issues relates to
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`the domain. This is the time times frequency grid, on which
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`we find these symbols and whether or not there is a first part
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`and a second part of the domain, (indiscernible) suggested by
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`part and second part should mean.
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` Finally, as to -- for the dependent claims, 17 -- 7,
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`17, 27, and 37, there's a dispute as to the BRI of not
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`continuously mapped. What does that mean?
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` So with that, Claim 11, we've already talked about
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`some of this, and again, nowhere in the 100-plus words in
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`these independent claims appears any description or
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`specification as to sequence, timing of the groups of symbols,
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`and the mapping.
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` This goes to Your Honors point, our proposed
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`construction, which the Board acknowledged in the institution
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`decision, states that these groups of symbols constitute
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`arrangements of symbols to which data is mapped. The Patent
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`Owner's -- Patent Owner response, their proposed construction
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`is that the data has to be deliberately mapped -- again, I
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`mentioned trial and error from Column 7. They're claiming
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`that in ought to be deliberately mapped to a particular
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`arrangement of symbols that exists prior to mapping.
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` Moving now to Slide 8. This, we believe, is an
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`attempt by the Patent Owner to rewrite the claims and inject
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`limitations from the specification that under Federal Circuit
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`authority, limitations in a specification. Even if you have
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`one embodiment, even if you have limitations appearing in all
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`embodiments under Ventana Medical Systems, which we cited, or
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`under the Thorner case, or under the Hill-Rom case, the
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`Federal Circuit does not count against that, except in two
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`situations, neither of which is present here; one being
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`lexicography and the other being clear disavowal of other
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`functionality.
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` The Patent Owner, going to Slide 9, seeks to limit
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`the claims to Figure 6 and 7 and the accompanying disclosure.
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`Figure 6 is a block diagram, not a flow chart. Figure 7 is a
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`format table. Both of them are directed specifically only at
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`embodiment one. There are multiple embodiments. These two
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`figures are directed only at embodiment one, and, again, any
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`support falls short -- I've mentioned the Federal Circuit
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`authority, I've mentioned how none of these claims recite
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`anything about groups of symbols being pre-existing. I've
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`mentioned the usage of the term, predetermined, and then I
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`mentioned the statement in Column 7 as to trial and error
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`determination of code blocks.
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` Moving to Slide 10. We are under BRI, broadest
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`reasonable interpretation, in light of the specification, but
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`in addition, the Patent Owner's arguments are also refuted by
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`the file history. We've cited to the file history, Exhibit
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`1002 at Pages 447 to 49, where in connection with an RCE, the
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`Patent Owner clearly stated that only Figures 4 and 5
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`illustrate the recited mapping of the data to symbols.
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` JUDGE QUINN: Even if you take instruction from
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`Figures 4 and 5 as to what it means, those figures themselves
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`don't speak to the predetermined nature of the arrangements
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`that Patent Owner's alluding to, right?
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` MR. CHEN: Correct. Yes, Your Honor.
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` JUDGE QUINN: So it just means that you can have
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`many arrangements within the realm of the construction of the
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`time and frequency maps?
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` MR. CHEN: Yes, Your Honor. As we argued in the
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`petition and again in the reply, the breadth of the language
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`of these claims, as illustrated by the examples in Figures 4A
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`through 4F and Figure 5, in turn gives rise to multiple ways
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`the Board accurately noted that, you know, contrary to the
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`Patent Owner's arguments about arbitrary allocations of the
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`Wallace, Figure 2 is simply a function of the breadth and
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`variability of the claim language itself.
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` So again the file history we think is telling, in
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`that -- in the amendment following the RCE. There was an RCE,
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`there was a non-final rejection, and in the amendment
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`following that non-final rejection, the applicant stated, Look
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`to Figures 4 and 5.
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` Now, you'll probably hear Patent Owner's counsel say
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`that they did cite to Figure 6 earlier in the prosecution.
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`That was in response to a final rejection in the year 2011, a
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`year before allowance, and that was not carried through when
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`there was an RCE filed, and the non-final rejection, and then
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`interview. At that point, the applicant stated to the
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`examiner, Look at Figure 4 and 5. No mention at all of Figure
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`6.
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` Moving on to Slide 11. There's also an argument, we
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`think, from Patent Owner that mapped to symbols means it is
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`mapped on a symbol-by-symbol basis. Again, in the institution
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`decision, the Board, we believe, correctly recognized that
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`testified, he could not identify mapping on a symbol-by-symbol
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`basis when questioned on that.
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` And to your point, Your Honor, Slide 12, the Board
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`recognized that mapping does appear to encompass that data can
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`be mapped to one or more arrangements of symbols.
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` Slide 15 --
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` JUDGE QUINN: When they say that --
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` MR. CHEN: Yes, Your Honor?
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` JUDGE QUINN: -- the claims cover some sort of
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`notable manner in which you have to do the mapping, you have
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`to know what you're going to map before you map it? Don't you
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`read Wallace as also having that feature because Wallace
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`schedules the symbols on a specific way?
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` MR. CHEN: We would agree with that, Your Honor. On
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`its face, Wallace described itself as a dynamic scheduler, and
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`certainly, the Patent Owner has pointed that out. So given
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`that language in the claim, that is one of the reasons why we
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`believe Wallace does read on the claim. The claim doesn't
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`require -- it doesn't require specific language of pre-
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`existing or predetermining, but Wallace absolutely has to have
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`something to map to. And Figure 2 shows, in that snapshot of
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`a transmission, how all of the various data, data 1 through 7,
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`I believe, is mapped to symbols in that time frequency grid.
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` Going to Slide 15. This is where in our petition
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`and in the declaration of Dr. Wells, we attempted to show how
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`the '569 Patent Figure 4 supports groups of symbols in
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`multiple ways. And, again, the Patent Owner indicated this is
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`arbitrary. You've got the first group and the second group.
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`They seem to be mirror images of each other, but, again, the
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`claim language and the disclosure leads to that if you read
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`the discussion as to Figure 4B, 4C, 4D.
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` And going to Slide 16, the recited first and second
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`data can be mapped to multiple different arrangements of
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`symbols. Wallace, Figure 2, teaches the mapping of data under
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`our proposed construction. This is a graphical illustration
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`of a transmission of these symbols, these orthogonal
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`frequency-division multiplexing symbols showing domain with a
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`time index and a frequency index, nine time slots along the
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`horizontal time access, 16 sub-channels along the vertically
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`oriented frequency access.
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` The first annotated figure here in Slide 16 shows an
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`arrangement of symbols in the first part of the domain on the
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`right of Figure 2, an arrangement of groups of symbols in the
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`second part of the domain. This was in our petition and in
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`Dr. Wells' declaration beginning at Paragraph 177.
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` Slide 17 shows a second annotated depiction of the
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`same figure of Wallace; different first part of the domain,
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`different second part of the domain, groups of symbols in the
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`second part and mapping to symbols in the first part. Again,
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`the institution decision correctly noted that Claim 11 can be
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`read on such alternative characterizations because of the
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`breadth of claim language. Patent Owner has tried to
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`characterize our alternative ways of presenting how Wallace
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`read on this claim language as arbitrary, but any flexibility
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`in (indiscernible) laws, stems directly from, we believe, the
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`BRI of the claims themselves.
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` Okay. Moving a little quickly here, and this is
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`something you touched upon, Your Honor, and that is the
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`dynamic scheduling, the dynamic allocation in Wallace being
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`similar to the '569 Patent. And the '569 Patent is, itself,
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`citing many times to the concept of adaptability.
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` Okay. The next second main area here -- I see I'm
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`doing to about ten minutes. First part of the domain and the
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`second of the domain on Slide 19. Slide 20, we presented how
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`Wallace teaches a first part and a second part in multiple
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`ways. This, again, follows from the examples, Figures 4A
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`through F in the '569 Patent. That was on Slide 21.
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` Slide 22, at his deposition, Dr. Womack, the expert
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`for the Patent Owner, stated that these parts of the domain,
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`the supposed first part and second part of the domain, which
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`Patent Owner has argued need to be demarcated, divided,
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`distinct from each other. Dr. Womack testified that in the
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`various figures, there's really nothing that is explicitly
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`pointed out as a division, a demarcation, a separation.
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` Slide 23, we submit that the Board's initial
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`determination on this issue is correct. And as we set forth
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`in petition, this disputed claim term should be construed as
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`the Petitioner argues. And Wallace suggests these arguments.
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