`GARMIN INTERNATIONAL v.
`LOGANTREE, LP
`
`ANDREW SINGER
`November 30, 2018
`
`Area Wide Reporting and Video Conferencing
`www.areawide.net
`scheduling@areawide.net
`301 W. White Street
`Champaign, IL 61820
`
`Original File 1130SINA.txt
`Min-U-Script® with Word Index
`
`IPR2018-00565
`LoganTree EX2002 Page 01
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`
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`1
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` 1 UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`
` 2 BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
` 3
`
` 4 GARMIN INTERNATIONAL, )
` INC., and GARMIN USA, )
` 5 INC., )
` )
` 6 Petitioner, ) Case IPR2018-00564
` )
` 7 vs. ) Patent No. 6,059,576
` )
` 8 LOGANTREE, LP, )
` )
` 9 Patent Owner. )
` ------------------------
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13 DEPOSITION OF ANDREW SINGER
` November 30, 2018
`14 10:00 AM
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
` June Haeme: CSR # 084-003038
`20
` Area Wide Reporting and Video Conferencing
`21 301 West White Street
` Champaign, Illinois 61820
`22 800.747.6789
`
`23
`
`24
`
`Area Wide Reporting and Video Conferencing
`1-800-747-6789
`
`IPR2018-00565
`LoganTree EX2002 Page 02
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`2
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` 1 INDEX
`
` 2
` APPEARANCES:
` 3
` For the Petitioner:
` 4 Callie Pendergrass
` Clifford T. Brazen
` 5 Attorneys at Law
` Erise IP
` 6 7015 College Boulevard, Suite 700
` Overland Park, KS 66211
` 7 913.777.5600
` callie.pendergrass@eriseIP.com
` 8 cliff.brazen@eriseIP.com
`
` 9 For the Patent Owner:
` Christopher M. Barkley [via Zoom]
`10 Attorney at Law
` McCathern, PLLC
`11 523 West Sixth Street, Suite 830
` Los Angeles, CA 90014
`12 213.225.6150
` cbarkley@mccathernlaw.com
`13
`
`14
` EXAMINATION BY:
`15
` Mr. Barkley.............. 4
`16
`
`17
` EXHIBITS:
`18
` Garmin Exhibit 1001.......................... 5
`19 Patent No. 6,059,576
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`20
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`21
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`22
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`23
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`3
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` 1 STIPULATION
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` 2
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` 3 IT IS HEREBY EXPRESSLY STIPULATED AND
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` 4 AGREED by and between the parties that the
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` 5 deposition of ANDREW SINGER may be taken on November
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` 6 30, 2018, at the offices of Area Wide Reporting and
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` 7 Video Conferencing, 301 West White Street,
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` 8 Champaign, Illinois.
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` 9
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`10 IT IS FURTHER STIPULATED that the
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`11 necessity for calling the Court Reporter for
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`12 impeachment purposes is waived.
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`13
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`14
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`15
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`ANDREW SINGER
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`4
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` 1 (Commencing at 10:00 a.m.)
`
` 2 ANDREW SINGER,
`
` 3 having first been duly sworn, testified as follows:
`
` 4 EXAMINATION BY
`
` 5 MR. BARKLEY:
`
` 6 Q. Would you state your name for the record
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` 7 please?
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` 8 A. Sure. Andrew Carl Singer.
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` 9 Q. Thank you. Can you state your address
`
`10 please?
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`11 A. Sure. It's 1307 Woodberry Drive, Mahomet,
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`12 Illinois.
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`13 Q. Have you reviewed the patent at issue for
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`14 the inter partes reviews? Specifically it would be
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`15 U.S. Patent No. for the record 6,059,576.
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`16 A. Yes.
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`17 Q. About how much time would you say you
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`18 spent reviewing this patent?
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`19 A. I don't have an exact number, I could
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`20 probably look it up, but probably more than ten
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`21 hours and less than a hundred hours, somewhere in
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`22 that range.
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`23 Q. Okay. That's fine, okay. I want to -- I
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`24 want to take a look at some of the claim language in
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`ANDREW SINGER
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`5
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` 1 the patent. I believe there should be -- I believe
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` 2 it's Exhibit 1001.
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` 3 MR. BARKLEY: If you can provide Dr.
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` 4 Singer with the patent.
`
` 5 (Garmin Exhibit 1001 was provided to the
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` 6 witness.)
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` 7 Q. Okay, you have the patent in front of you.
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` 8 I want to direct you to claim 20. I can lead you
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` 9 there. If you go to page 19. Do you have it there
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`10 in front of you?
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`11 A. Claim 20, yes.
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`12 Q. In forming your opinion, providing your
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`13 opinion, did you review claim 20?
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`14 A. Yes.
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`15 Q. Okay. About how much time would you say
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`16 you spent reviewing claim 20?
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`17 A. Oh, I can't recall.
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`18 Q. Okay. All right, I want to -- looking at
`
`19 claim 20, I'm just going to read through it there
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`20 with you while you look at it. Three features
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`21 down -- I guess, first, actually do you understand
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`22 that in interpreting the meaning of a claim all of
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`23 the features or limitations of the claim are
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`24 required to be considered?
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`ANDREW SINGER
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`6
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` 1 A. Yes.
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` 2 Q. Okay. I want to take a look at the third
`
` 3 feature down starting with the word "interpreting".
`
` 4 Go ahead and read that.
`
` 5 A. You're talking about on line 29, column 2?
`
` 6 Q. That is correct.
`
` 7 A. Okay.
`
` 8 Q. Start by reading that feature.
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` 9 A. Okay. Interpreting, using a
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`10 microprocessor included in the portable,
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`11 self-contained movement measuring device, said
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`12 physical movement data based on user-defined
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`13 operational parameters and a real-time clock, and
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`14 then in brackets "and".
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`15 Q. Okay. Would you say you understood that
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`16 limitation in providing your opinion?
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`17 A. Which opinion?
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`18 Q. In your declaration.
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`19 A. Are you referring to --
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`20 Q. Strike that. Would you say you understand
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`21 that limitation?
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`22 A. Yes, generally.
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`23 Q. Okay. Would you agree that the
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`24 interpreting, what is being interpreted is physical
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`ANDREW SINGER
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`7
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` 1 movement data?
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` 2 A. I didn't quite understand your question.
`
` 3 What's your question?
`
` 4 Q. So in the claim -- so the claim reads
`
` 5 interpreting, using a microprocessor included in the
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` 6 portable, self-contained movement measuring device,
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` 7 said physical movement data. Within that, what is
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` 8 being interpreted within that meaning of that
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` 9 phrase? Would you agree that what is being
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`10 interpreted is said physical movement data?
`
`11 A. It appears so. Said physical movement
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`12 data based on user-defined operational parameters
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`13 and a real-time clock.
`
`14 Q. Right. So would you also agree that for
`
`15 the microprocessor to interpret said physical
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`16 movement data it would require the user-defined
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`17 operational parameters and a real-time clock?
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`18 A. I'm not sure I understand what you're
`
`19 asking, I'm sorry.
`
`20 Q. That's okay, I'll rephrase it. Based on
`
`21 the claim language itself in front of you, what is
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`22 the microprocessor using to interpret the physical
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`23 movement data? In other words, would you agree that
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`24 to interpret the physical movement data the
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`ANDREW SINGER
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`8
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` 1 microprocessor would be interpreting based on both
`
` 2 user-defined operational parameters and a real-time
`
` 3 clock?
`
` 4 A. I don't think I've offered an opinion on
`
` 5 what or how the microprocessor interprets and
`
` 6 whether the rest of that claim has to do with the
`
` 7 data or the microprocessor, so I haven't really -- I
`
` 8 don't believe I've offered an opinion on that
`
` 9 specifically. I'd have to think about it.
`
`10 Q. Okay. So how much time do you think --
`
`11 how much time would you like to think about it? I
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`12 guess based on your reading right now in front of
`
`13 you of that claim limitation, would you say that the
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`14 interpretation of the physical movement data
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`15 requires both the user-defined operational
`
`16 parameters and a real-time clock?
`
`17 A. You know, I don't believe I've offered an
`
`18 opinion on it, and right here right now, I can see
`
`19 that there are a number of ways, you know, that that
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`20 can be read. Interpreting physical movement data
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`21 based on user-defined operational parameters and a
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`22 real-time clock could mean that the data is based on
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`23 user-defined parameters and a real-time clock or it
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`24 could mean interpreting based on. And right here
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`ANDREW SINGER
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`9
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` 1 right now, I'm not prepared to offer an opinion on
`
` 2 that.
`
` 3 Q. Okay. Okay, I'll move on. Okay, found on
`
` 4 line 33, there's a feature there, recites "storing
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` 5 said data in memory." Do you see that?
`
` 6 A. I'm sorry, you said line 33 or paragraph
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` 7 33? Line 33?
`
` 8 Q. Line 33.
`
` 9 A. Yes.
`
`10 Q. Okay, and so that you would agree that
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`11 that would be one instance of a storing recited in
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`12 the claim.
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`13 A. It does say storing said data in memory.
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`14 Q. Okay. Moving down in column 2 to line 38,
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`15 okay?
`
`16 A. Okay.
`
`17 Q. That feature is also "storing, in said
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`18 memory, first event information related to the
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`19 detected first user-defined event along with first
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`20 time stamp information reflecting a time at which
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`21 the movement data causing the first user-defined
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`22 event occurred."
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`23 So based on these storing features, would
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`24 you agree that claim 20 requires two instances of
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`ANDREW SINGER
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`10
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` 1 storing: one instance of storing said data in
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` 2 memory and a second one of being storing the first
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` 3 event information?
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` 4 MR. BRAZEN: Object to the form. You can
`
` 5 answer.
`
` 6 A. I'm not sure that I understand exactly
`
` 7 what you're asking, I apologize. In --
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` 8 Q. That's okay.
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` 9 A. I do agree that it says storing said data
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`10 in memory, and then later it says storing, in said
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`11 memory, first event information related to the
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`12 detected first user-defined and so forth.
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`13 Q. Sure.
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`14 A. Whether or not that constitutes two
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`15 separate -- I'm not sure what you're asking, but if
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`16 you're asking me if that constitutes two separate
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`17 instances of storing or one instance of storing with
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`18 further explanation of that storing, I don't believe
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`19 I've offered an opinion on whether that's one or two
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`20 instances, if that's what you're getting at.
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`21 Q. Okay. So let me rephrase it then. So in
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`22 the first instance, storing said data in memory,
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`23 said data being referred to the measuring data for
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`24 the prior feature, based on the antecedents, and
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`ANDREW SINGER
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`11
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` 1 then in the second storing, the storing is storing
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` 2 first event information. So would you agree that
`
` 3 the claim has -- states both a storing of said
`
` 4 measured data and a storing of first event
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` 5 information?
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` 6 MR. BRAZEN: Objection, form.
`
` 7 A. So I don't think that my answer changes.
`
` 8 I agree that it says storing said data in memory,
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` 9 and then it said storing, in said memory, first
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`10 event information related to the first -- detected
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`11 first user-defined event and so forth. I don't
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`12 believe that I've offered an opinion as to whether
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`13 or not that's two separate storings or whether it
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`14 could be one instance of storing, so I'm -- I don't
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`15 think I've offered an opinion on that and I'd have
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`16 to think about that.
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`17 Q. Okay, thank you.
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`18 MR. BARKLEY: I have no further questions.
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`19 MR. BRAZEN: I have nothing.
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`20 (Adjourned at 10:15 a.m.)
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`12
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`
` 1 STATE OF ILLINOIS )
` )SS
` 2 COUNTY OF FORD )
`
` 3
` I, June Haeme, a Notary Public in and for
` 4 the County of Ford, State of Illinois, do hereby
` certify that ANDREW SINGER, the deponent herein, was
` 5 by me first duly sworn to tell the truth, the whole
` truth and nothing but the truth, in the
` 6 aforementioned cause of action.
` That the following deposition was taken on
` 7 behalf of the Patent Owner at the offices of Area
` Wide Reporting and Video Conferencing, 301 West
` 8 White Street, Champaign, Illinois, on November 30,
` 2018.
` 9 That the said deposition was taken down in
` stenograph notes and afterwards reduced to
`10 typewriting under my instruction; that the
` deposition is a true record of the testimony given
`11 by the deponent; and that it was agreed by and
` between the witness and attorneys that said
`12 signature on said deposition would not be waived.
` I do further certify that I am a
`13 disinterested person in this cause of action; that I
` am not a relative, or otherwise interested in the
`14 event of this action, and am not in the employ of
` the attorneys for either party.
`15 IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my
` hand and affixed my notarial seal this 30th day of
`16 November, 2018.
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
` JUNE HAEME, CSR
`20 NOTARY PUBLIC
`
`21
`
`22 "OFFICIAL SEAL"
` June Haeme
`23 Notary Public, State of Illinois
` My Commission Expires:
`24 September 28, 2020
`
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`13
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`
` 1 UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`
` 2 BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
` 3
`
` 4 GARMIN INTERNATIONAL, )
` INC., and GARMIN USA, )
` 5 INC., )
` )
` 6 Petitioner, ) Case IPR2018-00564
` )
` 7 vs. ) Patent No. 6,059,576
` )
` 8 LOGANTREE, LP, )
` )
` 9 Patent Owner. )
` ------------------------
`10
`
`11 This is to certify that I have read the
` transcript of my deposition taken by June Haeme,
`12 CSR, in the above-entitled cause, and that the
` foregoing transcript taken on November 30, 2018,
`13 accurately states the questions asked and the
` answers given by me, with the exception of the
`14 corrections noted, if any, on the attached errata
` sheet(s).
`15
`
`16 ANDREW SINGER
`
`17
` Subscribed and Sworn before
`18
` me the day of , 2018.
`19
` , Notary Public
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23 Area Wide Reporting and Video Conferencing
` 301 West White Street, Champaign, IL 61820
`24 800.747.6789
`
`Area Wide Reporting and Video Conferencing
`1-800-747-6789
`
`IPR2018-00565
`LoganTree EX2002 Page 14
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`GARMIN INTERNATIONAL v.
`LOGANTREE, LP
`
`ANDREW SINGER
`November 30, 2018
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`A
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`actually (1)
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`address (1)
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`Adjourned (1)
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`agree (9)
` 6:23;7:9,14,23;
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`ahead (1)
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`along (1)
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`ANDREW (2)
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`antecedents (1)
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`apologize (1)
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`appears (1)
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`B
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`BARKLEY (3)
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`based (10)
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`both (3)
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`brackets (1)
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`BRAZEN (3)
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`C
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` 4:9;5:3,8;8:18,20;
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`Carl (1)
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`causing (1)
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`changes (1)
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`claim (16)
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`clock (7)
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`considered (1)
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`Min-U-Script®
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`constitutes (2)
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`detected (3)
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`device (2)
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`direct (1)
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`down (3)
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`Dr (1)
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`Drive (1)
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`duly (1)
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`event (9)
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`exact (1)
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`exactly (1)
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`EXAMINATION (1)
` 4:4
`Exhibit (2)
` 5:2,5
`explanation (1)
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`F
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`feature (5)
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`features (3)
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`fine (1)
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`first (15)
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`follows (1)
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`form (2)
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`forming (1)
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`forth (2)
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`found (1)
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`front (4)
` 5:7,10;7:21;8:12
`further (2)
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`Garmin (1)
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`generally (1)
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`guess (2)
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`hours (2)
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`hundred (1)
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`Illinois (1)
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`included (2)
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`information (7)
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`instance (5)
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`instances (3)
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`inter (1)
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`interpret (3)
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`interpretation (1)
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`interpreted (3)
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`interpreting (8)
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`interprets (1)
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`issue (1)
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`L
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`later (1)
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`lead (1)
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`less (1)
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`limitation (3)
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`limitations (1)
` 5:23
`line (6)
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`look (4)
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`looking (1)
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`M
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`Mahomet (1)
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`mean (2)
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`meaning (2)
` 5:22;7:8
`measured (1)
` 11:4
`measuring (3)
` 6:11;7:6;10:23
`memory (9)
` 9:5,13,18;10:2,10,
` 11,22;11:8,9
`microprocessor (7)
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`more (1)
` 4:20
`move (1)
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`movement (13)
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` 11,16,23,24;8:14,20;
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`Moving (1)
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`much (4)
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`N
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`name (1)
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`number (2)
` 4:19;8:19
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`O
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`Object (1)
` 10:4
`Objection (1)
` 11:6
`occurred (1)
` 9:22
`offer (1)
` 9:1
`offered (6)
` 8:4,8,17;10:19;
` 11:12,15
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`one (6)
` 9:11;10:1,2,17,19;
` 11:14
`operational (6)
` 6:13;7:12,17;8:2,
` 15,21
`opinion (11)
` 5:12,13;6:16,17;
` 8:4,8,18;9:1;10:19;
` 11:12,15
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`P
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`page (1)
` 5:9
`paragraph (1)
` 9:6
`parameters (7)
` 6:13;7:12,17;8:2,
` 16,21,23
`partes (1)
` 4:14
`patent (6)
` 4:13,15,18;5:1,4,7
`phrase (1)
` 7:9
`physical (10)
` 6:12,24;7:7,10,11,
` 15,22,24;8:14,20
`please (2)
` 4:7,10
`portable (2)
` 6:10;7:6
`prepared (1)
` 9:1
`prior (1)
` 10:24
`probably (2)
` 4:20,20
`provide (1)
` 5:3
`provided (1)
` 5:5
`providing (2)
` 5:12;6:16
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`quite (1)
` 7:2
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`Q
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`R
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`range (1)
` 4:22
`read (3)
` 5:19;6:4;8:20
`reading (2)
` 6:8;8:12
`reads (1)
` 7:4
`really (1)
` 8:7
`
`Area Wide Reporting and Video Conferencing
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`(1) actually - really
`
`IPR2018-00565
`LoganTree EX2002 Page 15
`
`
`
`GARMIN INTERNATIONAL v.
`LOGANTREE, LP
`
`ANDREW SINGER
`November 30, 2018
`
`real-time (7)
` 6:13;7:13,17;8:2,
` 16,22,23
`recall (1)
` 5:17
`recited (1)
` 9:11
`recites (1)
` 9:4
`record (2)
` 4:6,15
`referred (1)
` 10:23
`referring (1)
` 6:19
`reflecting (1)
` 9:20
`related (3)
` 9:18;10:11;11:10
`rephrase (2)
` 7:20;10:21
`require (1)
` 7:16
`required (1)
` 5:24
`requires (2)
` 8:15;9:24
`rest (1)
` 8:6
`review (1)
` 5:13
`reviewed (1)
` 4:13
`reviewing (2)
` 4:18;5:16
`reviews (1)
` 4:14
`right (7)
` 5:18;7:14;8:12,18,
` 18,24;9:1
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`S
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`second (2)
` 10:2;11:1
`self-contained (2)
` 6:11;7:6
`separate (3)
` 10:15,16;11:13
`SINGER (3)
` 4:2,8;5:4
`somewhere (1)
` 4:21
`sorry (2)
` 7:19;9:6
`Specifically (2)
` 4:14;8:9
`spent (2)
` 4:18;5:16
`stamp (1)
` 9:20
`Start (1)
` 6:8
`
`Min-U-Script®
`
` 6:3
`words (1)
` 7:23
`
`10:00 (1)
` 4:1
`10:15 (1)
` 11:20
`1001 (2)
` 5:2,5
`1307 (1)
` 4:11
`19 (1)
` 5:9
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`1
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`2
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`2 (2)
` 6:5;9:14
`20 (6)
` 5:8,11,13,16,19;
` 9:24
`29 (1)
` 6:5
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`3
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`33 (5)
` 9:4,6,7,7,8
`38 (1)
` 9:14
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`6
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`6,059,576 (1)
` 4:15
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`starting (1)
` 6:3
`state (2)
` 4:6,9
`states (1)
` 11:3
`storing (22)
` 9:4,11,13,17,23;
` 10:1,1,2,9,10,17,17,
` 18,22;11:1,1,1,3,4,8,9,
` 14
`storings (1)
` 11:13
`Strike (1)
` 6:20
`Sure (6)
` 4:8,11;7:18;10:6,
` 13,15
`sworn (1)
` 4:3
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`T
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`talking (1)
` 6:5
`ten (1)
` 4:20
`testified (1)
` 4:3
`third (1)
` 6:2
`Three (1)
` 5:20
`two (5)
` 9:24;10:14,16,19;
` 11:13
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`U
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`understood (1)
` 6:15
`up (1)
` 4:20
`user-defined (11)
` 6:12;7:12,16;8:2,
` 15,21,23;9:19,21;
` 10:12;11:11
`using (3)
` 6:9;7:5,22
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`W
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`ways (1)
` 8:19
`What's (1)
` 7:3
`Within (2)
` 7:7,8
`witness (1)
` 5:6
`Woodberry (1)
` 4:11
`word (1)
`
`Area Wide Reporting and Video Conferencing
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`(2) real-time - 6,059,576
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`IPR2018-00565
`LoganTree EX2002 Page 16
`
`