In The Matter Of:
`GARMIN INTERNATIONAL v.
`LOGANTREE, LP
`
`ANDREW SINGER
`November 30, 2018
`
`Area Wide Reporting and Video Conferencing
`www.areawide.net
`scheduling@areawide.net
`301 W. White Street
`Champaign, IL 61820
`
`Original File 1130SINA.txt
`Min-U-Script® with Word Index
`
`IPR2018-00564
`LoganTree EX2002 Page 01
`
`

`

`1
`
`
` 1 UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`
` 2 BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
` 3
`
` 4 GARMIN INTERNATIONAL, )
` INC., and GARMIN USA, )
` 5 INC., )
` )
` 6 Petitioner, ) Case IPR2018-00564
` )
` 7 vs. ) Patent No. 6,059,576
` )
` 8 LOGANTREE, LP, )
` )
` 9 Patent Owner. )
` ------------------------
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13 DEPOSITION OF ANDREW SINGER
` November 30, 2018
`14 10:00 AM
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
` June Haeme: CSR # 084-003038
`20
` Area Wide Reporting and Video Conferencing
`21 301 West White Street
` Champaign, Illinois 61820
`22 800.747.6789
`
`23
`
`24
`
`Area Wide Reporting and Video Conferencing
`1-800-747-6789
`
`IPR2018-00564
`LoganTree EX2002 Page 02
`
`

`

`2
`
`
` 1 INDEX
`
` 2
` APPEARANCES:
` 3
` For the Petitioner:
` 4 Callie Pendergrass
` Clifford T. Brazen
` 5 Attorneys at Law
` Erise IP
` 6 7015 College Boulevard, Suite 700
` Overland Park, KS 66211
` 7 913.777.5600
` callie.pendergrass@eriseIP.com
` 8 cliff.brazen@eriseIP.com
`
` 9 For the Patent Owner:
` Christopher M. Barkley [via Zoom]
`10 Attorney at Law
` McCathern, PLLC
`11 523 West Sixth Street, Suite 830
` Los Angeles, CA 90014
`12 213.225.6150
` cbarkley@mccathernlaw.com
`13
`
`14
` EXAMINATION BY:
`15
` Mr. Barkley.............. 4
`16
`
`17
` EXHIBITS:
`18
` Garmin Exhibit 1001.......................... 5
`19 Patent No. 6,059,576
`
`20
`
`21
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`22
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`23
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`24
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`

`

`3
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`
` 1 STIPULATION
`
` 2
`
` 3 IT IS HEREBY EXPRESSLY STIPULATED AND
`
` 4 AGREED by and between the parties that the
`
` 5 deposition of ANDREW SINGER may be taken on November
`
` 6 30, 2018, at the offices of Area Wide Reporting and
`
` 7 Video Conferencing, 301 West White Street,
`
` 8 Champaign, Illinois.
`
` 9
`
`10 IT IS FURTHER STIPULATED that the
`
`11 necessity for calling the Court Reporter for
`
`12 impeachment purposes is waived.
`
`13
`
`14
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`15
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`16
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`17
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`18
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`19
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`20
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`21
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`22
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`23
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`24
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`LoganTree EX2002 Page 04
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`

`

`ANDREW SINGER
`
`4
`
`
` 1 (Commencing at 10:00 a.m.)
`
` 2 ANDREW SINGER,
`
` 3 having first been duly sworn, testified as follows:
`
` 4 EXAMINATION BY
`
` 5 MR. BARKLEY:
`
` 6 Q. Would you state your name for the record
`
` 7 please?
`
` 8 A. Sure. Andrew Carl Singer.
`
` 9 Q. Thank you. Can you state your address
`
`10 please?
`
`11 A. Sure. It's 1307 Woodberry Drive, Mahomet,
`
`12 Illinois.
`
`13 Q. Have you reviewed the patent at issue for
`
`14 the inter partes reviews? Specifically it would be
`
`15 U.S. Patent No. for the record 6,059,576.
`
`16 A. Yes.
`
`17 Q. About how much time would you say you
`
`18 spent reviewing this patent?
`
`19 A. I don't have an exact number, I could
`
`20 probably look it up, but probably more than ten
`
`21 hours and less than a hundred hours, somewhere in
`
`22 that range.
`
`23 Q. Okay. That's fine, okay. I want to -- I
`
`24 want to take a look at some of the claim language in
`
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`

`

`ANDREW SINGER
`
`5
`
`
` 1 the patent. I believe there should be -- I believe
`
` 2 it's Exhibit 1001.
`
` 3 MR. BARKLEY: If you can provide Dr.
`
` 4 Singer with the patent.
`
` 5 (Garmin Exhibit 1001 was provided to the
`
` 6 witness.)
`
` 7 Q. Okay, you have the patent in front of you.
`
` 8 I want to direct you to claim 20. I can lead you
`
` 9 there. If you go to page 19. Do you have it there
`
`10 in front of you?
`
`11 A. Claim 20, yes.
`
`12 Q. In forming your opinion, providing your
`
`13 opinion, did you review claim 20?
`
`14 A. Yes.
`
`15 Q. Okay. About how much time would you say
`
`16 you spent reviewing claim 20?
`
`17 A. Oh, I can't recall.
`
`18 Q. Okay. All right, I want to -- looking at
`
`19 claim 20, I'm just going to read through it there
`
`20 with you while you look at it. Three features
`
`21 down -- I guess, first, actually do you understand
`
`22 that in interpreting the meaning of a claim all of
`
`23 the features or limitations of the claim are
`
`24 required to be considered?
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`ANDREW SINGER
`
`6
`
`
` 1 A. Yes.
`
` 2 Q. Okay. I want to take a look at the third
`
` 3 feature down starting with the word "interpreting".
`
` 4 Go ahead and read that.
`
` 5 A. You're talking about on line 29, column 2?
`
` 6 Q. That is correct.
`
` 7 A. Okay.
`
` 8 Q. Start by reading that feature.
`
` 9 A. Okay. Interpreting, using a
`
`10 microprocessor included in the portable,
`
`11 self-contained movement measuring device, said
`
`12 physical movement data based on user-defined
`
`13 operational parameters and a real-time clock, and
`
`14 then in brackets "and".
`
`15 Q. Okay. Would you say you understood that
`
`16 limitation in providing your opinion?
`
`17 A. Which opinion?
`
`18 Q. In your declaration.
`
`19 A. Are you referring to --
`
`20 Q. Strike that. Would you say you understand
`
`21 that limitation?
`
`22 A. Yes, generally.
`
`23 Q. Okay. Would you agree that the
`
`24 interpreting, what is being interpreted is physical
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`

`ANDREW SINGER
`
`7
`
`
` 1 movement data?
`
` 2 A. I didn't quite understand your question.
`
` 3 What's your question?
`
` 4 Q. So in the claim -- so the claim reads
`
` 5 interpreting, using a microprocessor included in the
`
` 6 portable, self-contained movement measuring device,
`
` 7 said physical movement data. Within that, what is
`
` 8 being interpreted within that meaning of that
`
` 9 phrase? Would you agree that what is being
`
`10 interpreted is said physical movement data?
`
`11 A. It appears so. Said physical movement
`
`12 data based on user-defined operational parameters
`
`13 and a real-time clock.
`
`14 Q. Right. So would you also agree that for
`
`15 the microprocessor to interpret said physical
`
`16 movement data it would require the user-defined
`
`17 operational parameters and a real-time clock?
`
`18 A. I'm not sure I understand what you're
`
`19 asking, I'm sorry.
`
`20 Q. That's okay, I'll rephrase it. Based on
`
`21 the claim language itself in front of you, what is
`
`22 the microprocessor using to interpret the physical
`
`23 movement data? In other words, would you agree that
`
`24 to interpret the physical movement data the
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`

`ANDREW SINGER
`
`8
`
`
` 1 microprocessor would be interpreting based on both
`
` 2 user-defined operational parameters and a real-time
`
` 3 clock?
`
` 4 A. I don't think I've offered an opinion on
`
` 5 what or how the microprocessor interprets and
`
` 6 whether the rest of that claim has to do with the
`
` 7 data or the microprocessor, so I haven't really -- I
`
` 8 don't believe I've offered an opinion on that
`
` 9 specifically. I'd have to think about it.
`
`10 Q. Okay. So how much time do you think --
`
`11 how much time would you like to think about it? I
`
`12 guess based on your reading right now in front of
`
`13 you of that claim limitation, would you say that the
`
`14 interpretation of the physical movement data
`
`15 requires both the user-defined operational
`
`16 parameters and a real-time clock?
`
`17 A. You know, I don't believe I've offered an
`
`18 opinion on it, and right here right now, I can see
`
`19 that there are a number of ways, you know, that that
`
`20 can be read. Interpreting physical movement data
`
`21 based on user-defined operational parameters and a
`
`22 real-time clock could mean that the data is based on
`
`23 user-defined parameters and a real-time clock or it
`
`24 could mean interpreting based on. And right here
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`

`ANDREW SINGER
`
`9
`
`
` 1 right now, I'm not prepared to offer an opinion on
`
` 2 that.
`
` 3 Q. Okay. Okay, I'll move on. Okay, found on
`
` 4 line 33, there's a feature there, recites "storing
`
` 5 said data in memory." Do you see that?
`
` 6 A. I'm sorry, you said line 33 or paragraph
`
` 7 33? Line 33?
`
` 8 Q. Line 33.
`
` 9 A. Yes.
`
`10 Q. Okay, and so that you would agree that
`
`11 that would be one instance of a storing recited in
`
`12 the claim.
`
`13 A. It does say storing said data in memory.
`
`14 Q. Okay. Moving down in column 2 to line 38,
`
`15 okay?
`
`16 A. Okay.
`
`17 Q. That feature is also "storing, in said
`
`18 memory, first event information related to the
`
`19 detected first user-defined event along with first
`
`20 time stamp information reflecting a time at which
`
`21 the movement data causing the first user-defined
`
`22 event occurred."
`
`23 So based on these storing features, would
`
`24 you agree that claim 20 requires two instances of
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`ANDREW SINGER
`
`10
`
`
` 1 storing: one instance of storing said data in
`
` 2 memory and a second one of being storing the first
`
` 3 event information?
`
` 4 MR. BRAZEN: Object to the form. You can
`
` 5 answer.
`
` 6 A. I'm not sure that I understand exactly
`
` 7 what you're asking, I apologize. In --
`
` 8 Q. That's okay.
`
` 9 A. I do agree that it says storing said data
`
`10 in memory, and then later it says storing, in said
`
`11 memory, first event information related to the
`
`12 detected first user-defined and so forth.
`
`13 Q. Sure.
`
`14 A. Whether or not that constitutes two
`
`15 separate -- I'm not sure what you're asking, but if
`
`16 you're asking me if that constitutes two separate
`
`17 instances of storing or one instance of storing with
`
`18 further explanation of that storing, I don't believe
`
`19 I've offered an opinion on whether that's one or two
`
`20 instances, if that's what you're getting at.
`
`21 Q. Okay. So let me rephrase it then. So in
`
`22 the first instance, storing said data in memory,
`
`23 said data being referred to the measuring data for
`
`24 the prior feature, based on the antecedents, and
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`

`

`ANDREW SINGER
`
`11
`
`
` 1 then in the second storing, the storing is storing
`
` 2 first event information. So would you agree that
`
` 3 the claim has -- states both a storing of said
`
` 4 measured data and a storing of first event
`
` 5 information?
`
` 6 MR. BRAZEN: Objection, form.
`
` 7 A. So I don't think that my answer changes.
`
` 8 I agree that it says storing said data in memory,
`
` 9 and then it said storing, in said memory, first
`
`10 event information related to the first -- detected
`
`11 first user-defined event and so forth. I don't
`
`12 believe that I've offered an opinion as to whether
`
`13 or not that's two separate storings or whether it
`
`14 could be one instance of storing, so I'm -- I don't
`
`15 think I've offered an opinion on that and I'd have
`
`16 to think about that.
`
`17 Q. Okay, thank you.
`
`18 MR. BARKLEY: I have no further questions.
`
`19 MR. BRAZEN: I have nothing.
`
`20 (Adjourned at 10:15 a.m.)
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`21
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`22
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`23
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`12
`
`
` 1 STATE OF ILLINOIS )
` )SS
` 2 COUNTY OF FORD )
`
` 3
` I, June Haeme, a Notary Public in and for
` 4 the County of Ford, State of Illinois, do hereby
` certify that ANDREW SINGER, the deponent herein, was
` 5 by me first duly sworn to tell the truth, the whole
` truth and nothing but the truth, in the
` 6 aforementioned cause of action.
` That the following deposition was taken on
` 7 behalf of the Patent Owner at the offices of Area
` Wide Reporting and Video Conferencing, 301 West
` 8 White Street, Champaign, Illinois, on November 30,
` 2018.
` 9 That the said deposition was taken down in
` stenograph notes and afterwards reduced to
`10 typewriting under my instruction; that the
` deposition is a true record of the testimony given
`11 by the deponent; and that it was agreed by and
` between the witness and attorneys that said
`12 signature on said deposition would not be waived.
` I do further certify that I am a
`13 disinterested person in this cause of action; that I
` am not a relative, or otherwise interested in the
`14 event of this action, and am not in the employ of
` the attorneys for either party.
`15 IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my
` hand and affixed my notarial seal this 30th day of
`16 November, 2018.
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
` JUNE HAEME, CSR
`20 NOTARY PUBLIC
`
`21
`
`22 "OFFICIAL SEAL"
` June Haeme
`23 Notary Public, State of Illinois
` My Commission Expires:
`24 September 28, 2020
`
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`13
`
`
` 1 UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`
` 2 BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
` 3
`
` 4 GARMIN INTERNATIONAL, )
` INC., and GARMIN USA, )
` 5 INC., )
` )
` 6 Petitioner, ) Case IPR2018-00564
` )
` 7 vs. ) Patent No. 6,059,576
` )
` 8 LOGANTREE, LP, )
` )
` 9 Patent Owner. )
` ------------------------
`10
`
`11 This is to certify that I have read the
` transcript of my deposition taken by June Haeme,
`12 CSR, in the above-entitled cause, and that the
` foregoing transcript taken on November 30, 2018,
`13 accurately states the questions asked and the
` answers given by me, with the exception of the
`14 corrections noted, if any, on the attached errata
` sheet(s).
`15
`
`16 ANDREW SINGER
`
`17
` Subscribed and Sworn before
`18
` me the day of , 2018.
`19
` , Notary Public
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23 Area Wide Reporting and Video Conferencing
` 301 West White Street, Champaign, IL 61820
`24 800.747.6789
`
`Area Wide Reporting and Video Conferencing
`1-800-747-6789
`
`IPR2018-00564
`LoganTree EX2002 Page 14
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`

`

`GARMIN INTERNATIONAL v.
`LOGANTREE, LP
`
`ANDREW SINGER
`November 30, 2018
`
`A
`
`actually (1)
` 5:21
`address (1)
` 4:9
`Adjourned (1)
` 11:20
`agree (9)
` 6:23;7:9,14,23;
` 9:10,24;10:9;11:2,8
`ahead (1)
` 6:4
`along (1)
` 9:19
`ANDREW (2)
` 4:2,8
`antecedents (1)
` 10:24
`apologize (1)
` 10:7
`appears (1)
` 7:11
`
`B
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`BARKLEY (3)
` 4:5;5:3;11:18
`based (10)
` 6:12;7:12,20;8:1,
` 12,21,22,24;9:23;
` 10:24
`both (3)
` 8:1,15;11:3
`brackets (1)
` 6:14
`BRAZEN (3)
` 10:4;11:6,19
`
`C
`
`Can (6)
` 4:9;5:3,8;8:18,20;
` 10:4
`Carl (1)
` 4:8
`causing (1)
` 9:21
`changes (1)
` 11:7
`claim (16)
` 4:24;5:8,11,13,16,
` 19,22,23;7:4,4,21;8:6,
` 13;9:12,24;11:3
`clock (7)
` 6:13;7:13,17;8:3,
` 16,22,23
`column (2)
` 6:5;9:14
`Commencing (1)
` 4:1
`considered (1)
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`Min-U-Script®
`
` 5:24
`constitutes (2)
` 10:14,16
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`D
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`data (22)
` 6:12;7:1,7,10,12,16,
` 23,24;8:7,14,20,22;
` 9:5,13,21;10:1,9,22,
` 23,23;11:4,8
`declaration (1)
` 6:18
`detected (3)
` 9:19;10:12;11:10
`device (2)
` 6:11;7:6
`direct (1)
` 5:8
`down (3)
` 5:21;6:3;9:14
`Dr (1)
` 5:3
`Drive (1)
` 4:11
`duly (1)
` 4:3
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`E
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`event (9)
` 9:18,19,22;10:3,11;
` 11:2,4,10,11
`exact (1)
` 4:19
`exactly (1)
` 10:6
`EXAMINATION (1)
` 4:4
`Exhibit (2)
` 5:2,5
`explanation (1)
` 10:18
`
`F
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`feature (5)
` 6:3,8;9:4,17;10:24
`features (3)
` 5:20,23;9:23
`fine (1)
` 4:23
`first (15)
` 4:3;5:21;9:18,19,
` 19,21;10:2,11,12,22;
` 11:2,4,9,10,11
`follows (1)
` 4:3
`form (2)
` 10:4;11:6
`forming (1)
` 5:12
`forth (2)
`
` 10:12;11:11
`found (1)
` 9:3
`front (4)
` 5:7,10;7:21;8:12
`further (2)
` 10:18;11:18
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`G
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`Garmin (1)
` 5:5
`generally (1)
` 6:22
`guess (2)
` 5:21;8:12
`
`H
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`hours (2)
` 4:21,21
`hundred (1)
` 4:21
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`I
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`Illinois (1)
` 4:12
`included (2)
` 6:10;7:5
`information (7)
` 9:18,20;10:3,11;
` 11:2,5,10
`instance (5)
` 9:11;10:1,17,22;
` 11:14
`instances (3)
` 9:24;10:17,20
`inter (1)
` 4:14
`interpret (3)
` 7:15,22,24
`interpretation (1)
` 8:14
`interpreted (3)
` 6:24;7:8,10
`interpreting (8)
` 5:22;6:3,9,24;7:5;
` 8:1,20,24
`interprets (1)
` 8:5
`issue (1)
` 4:13
`
`L
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`language (2)
` 4:24;7:21
`later (1)
` 10:10
`lead (1)
` 5:8
`less (1)
`
` 4:21
`limitation (3)
` 6:16,21;8:13
`limitations (1)
` 5:23
`line (6)
` 6:5;9:4,6,7,8,14
`look (4)
` 4:20,24;5:20;6:2
`looking (1)
` 5:18
`
`M
`
`Mahomet (1)
` 4:11
`mean (2)
` 8:22,24
`meaning (2)
` 5:22;7:8
`measured (1)
` 11:4
`measuring (3)
` 6:11;7:6;10:23
`memory (9)
` 9:5,13,18;10:2,10,
` 11,22;11:8,9
`microprocessor (7)
` 6:10;7:5,15,22;8:1,
` 5,7
`more (1)
` 4:20
`move (1)
` 9:3
`movement (13)
` 6:11,12;7:1,6,7,10,
` 11,16,23,24;8:14,20;
` 9:21
`Moving (1)
` 9:14
`much (4)
` 4:17;5:15;8:10,11
`
`N
`
`name (1)
` 4:6
`number (2)
` 4:19;8:19
`
`O
`
`Object (1)
` 10:4
`Objection (1)
` 11:6
`occurred (1)
` 9:22
`offer (1)
` 9:1
`offered (6)
` 8:4,8,17;10:19;
` 11:12,15
`
`one (6)
` 9:11;10:1,2,17,19;
` 11:14
`operational (6)
` 6:13;7:12,17;8:2,
` 15,21
`opinion (11)
` 5:12,13;6:16,17;
` 8:4,8,18;9:1;10:19;
` 11:12,15
`
`P
`
`page (1)
` 5:9
`paragraph (1)
` 9:6
`parameters (7)
` 6:13;7:12,17;8:2,
` 16,21,23
`partes (1)
` 4:14
`patent (6)
` 4:13,15,18;5:1,4,7
`phrase (1)
` 7:9
`physical (10)
` 6:12,24;7:7,10,11,
` 15,22,24;8:14,20
`please (2)
` 4:7,10
`portable (2)
` 6:10;7:6
`prepared (1)
` 9:1
`prior (1)
` 10:24
`probably (2)
` 4:20,20
`provide (1)
` 5:3
`provided (1)
` 5:5
`providing (2)
` 5:12;6:16
`
`quite (1)
` 7:2
`
`Q
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`R
`
`range (1)
` 4:22
`read (3)
` 5:19;6:4;8:20
`reading (2)
` 6:8;8:12
`reads (1)
` 7:4
`really (1)
` 8:7
`
`Area Wide Reporting and Video Conferencing
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`(1) actually - really
`
`IPR2018-00564
`LoganTree EX2002 Page 15
`
`

`

`GARMIN INTERNATIONAL v.
`LOGANTREE, LP
`
`ANDREW SINGER
`November 30, 2018
`
`real-time (7)
` 6:13;7:13,17;8:2,
` 16,22,23
`recall (1)
` 5:17
`recited (1)
` 9:11
`recites (1)
` 9:4
`record (2)
` 4:6,15
`referred (1)
` 10:23
`referring (1)
` 6:19
`reflecting (1)
` 9:20
`related (3)
` 9:18;10:11;11:10
`rephrase (2)
` 7:20;10:21
`require (1)
` 7:16
`required (1)
` 5:24
`requires (2)
` 8:15;9:24
`rest (1)
` 8:6
`review (1)
` 5:13
`reviewed (1)
` 4:13
`reviewing (2)
` 4:18;5:16
`reviews (1)
` 4:14
`right (7)
` 5:18;7:14;8:12,18,
` 18,24;9:1
`
`S
`
`second (2)
` 10:2;11:1
`self-contained (2)
` 6:11;7:6
`separate (3)
` 10:15,16;11:13
`SINGER (3)
` 4:2,8;5:4
`somewhere (1)
` 4:21
`sorry (2)
` 7:19;9:6
`Specifically (2)
` 4:14;8:9
`spent (2)
` 4:18;5:16
`stamp (1)
` 9:20
`Start (1)
` 6:8
`
`Min-U-Script®
`
` 6:3
`words (1)
` 7:23
`
`10:00 (1)
` 4:1
`10:15 (1)
` 11:20
`1001 (2)
` 5:2,5
`1307 (1)
` 4:11
`19 (1)
` 5:9
`
`1
`
`2
`
`2 (2)
` 6:5;9:14
`20 (6)
` 5:8,11,13,16,19;
` 9:24
`29 (1)
` 6:5
`
`3
`
`33 (5)
` 9:4,6,7,7,8
`38 (1)
` 9:14
`
`6
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`6,059,576 (1)
` 4:15
`
`starting (1)
` 6:3
`state (2)
` 4:6,9
`states (1)
` 11:3
`storing (22)
` 9:4,11,13,17,23;
` 10:1,1,2,9,10,17,17,
` 18,22;11:1,1,1,3,4,8,9,
` 14
`storings (1)
` 11:13
`Strike (1)
` 6:20
`Sure (6)
` 4:8,11;7:18;10:6,
` 13,15
`sworn (1)
` 4:3
`
`T
`
`talking (1)
` 6:5
`ten (1)
` 4:20
`testified (1)
` 4:3
`third (1)
` 6:2
`Three (1)
` 5:20
`two (5)
` 9:24;10:14,16,19;
` 11:13
`
`U
`
`understood (1)
` 6:15
`up (1)
` 4:20
`user-defined (11)
` 6:12;7:12,16;8:2,
` 15,21,23;9:19,21;
` 10:12;11:11
`using (3)
` 6:9;7:5,22
`
`W
`
`ways (1)
` 8:19
`What's (1)
` 7:3
`Within (2)
` 7:7,8
`witness (1)
` 5:6
`Woodberry (1)
` 4:11
`word (1)
`
`Area Wide Reporting and Video Conferencing
`1-800-747-6789
`
`(2) real-time - 6,059,576
`
`IPR2018-00564
`LoganTree EX2002 Page 16
`
`