VIJAY K. MADISETTI, Ph.D. 2/7/2019
`
`Page 1
`
`Page 3
`
`INDEX TO EXHIBITS
`EXHIBIT DESCRIPTION
`Exhibit 1009 Patent 5,976,083
`to Richardson, et al.
`
`PAGE
`7
`
`(Original Exhibits A, B, 2001, 1001, 1004, 1006,
`1007, 1008, and 1009 were attached to the original
`transcript.)
`
`Page 4
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5 6 7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`1
`
` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`GARMIN INTERNATIONAL, INC.;
`
`and GARMIN USA, INC., Case No. IPR2018-00564
`IPR2018-00565
`
`Petitioners,
`
` vs.
`
`U.S. Patent No. 6,059,576
`
`LOGANTREE, LP,
`
`Patent Owner.
`_____________________________
`
` DEPOSITION OF VIJAY K. MADISETTI, Ph.D.
`
`February 7, 2019
`9:47 a.m.
`
`Building 13
`2900 Chamblee Tucker Road
`Atlanta, Georgia 30341
`
`Page 2
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3 4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`1
`
` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`GARMIN INTERNATIONAL, INC.;
`
`and GARMIN USA, INC., Case No. IPR2018-00564
`IPR2018-00565
`
`Petitioners,
`
` vs.
`
`U.S. Patent No. 6,059,576
`
`LOGANTREE, LP,
`
`Patent Owner.
`_____________________________
`
` DEPOSITION OF VIJAY K. MADISETTI, Ph.D.,
`produced, sworn, and examined on Thursday,
`February 7, 2019, between the hours of 9:47 a.m.
`and 11:34 a.m. of that day, located a 2900 Chamblee
`Tucker Road, Building 13, Atlanta, Georgia 30041,
`before Thomas R. Brezina, CRR, RMR, CCR, in a
`certain case now pending in the United States Patent
`and Trademark Office Before the Patent Trial and
`Appeal Board, Garmin International, Inc.; and Garmin
`USA, Inc. versus LoganTree, LP.
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`7
`
`7
`
`7
`
`7
`
`7
`
`7
`
`INDEX OF EXAMINATIONS
`2 WITNESS: VIJAY K. MADISETTI, Ph.D.
`EXAMINATION
`Page
`3
`By Ms. Redmond
`7
`
`4
`
`PAGE
`7
`
`INDEX TO EXHIBITS
`EXHIBIT DESCRIPTION
`Exhibit A Patent Owner's Response
`(564 case)
`Exhibit 2001 Declaration of Vijay K.
`Madisetti, Ph.D. (564 case)
`Exhibit B Patent Owner's Response
`(565 case)
`Exhibit 2001 Declaration of Vijay K.
`Madisetti, Ph.D. (565 case)
`Exhibit 1001 Patent 6,059,576 to Brann 7
`Exhibit 1004 Patent 5,978,972 to
`7
`Stewart, et al.
`Exhibit 1006 Patent 5,546,609
`to Rush, III
`Exhibit 1007 Patent 5,197,489
`to Conlan
`Exhibit 1008 Patent 5,474,083
`to Church, et al.
`
`5 6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`www.alaris.us
`
`ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376
`
`1 (Pages 1 to 4)
`
`Fax: 314.644.1334
`
`IPR2018-00564
`Garmin EX1021 Page 1
`
`

`

` VIJAY K. MADISETTI, Ph.D. 2/7/2019
`
`Page 5
`
`Page 7
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
` (Exhibits Numbers 2001, 1001, 1004,
`
` 1006, 1007, 1008, 1009, 2001, A, and B were
`
` marked for identification.)
`
` Deposition of Vijay K. Madisetti, Ph.D.
`
` February 7, 2019
`
` VIJAY K. MADISETTI, Ph.D.,
`
` having been produced and first duly sworn as a
`
` witness, testified as follows:
`
` EXAMINATION
`
`BY MS. REDMOND:
`
` Q Dr. Madisetti, I'd like to start by
`
`having you state your name and address for the
`
`record.
`
` A Yes. Good morning. My name is Vijay
`
`K. Madisetti. My address is 56 Creekside Park Drive
`
`in Johns Creek, Georgia 30022.
`
` Q Great. And, Dr. Madisetti, you have
`
`been deposed before; correct?
`
` A Yes.
`
` Q So you're generally familiar with the
`
`rules of the deposition; is that correct?
`
` A Yes.
`
` Q Just a reminder, I will ask some good
`
`questions, and I may ask some poor questions today.
`
`25 Will you please ask me to clarify if my question is
`
`Page 6
`
`Page 8
`
`unclear?
`
`1
`
`2
`
`1
`
` APPEARANCES OF COUNSEL
`
`2 3
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`On behalf of the Petitioners:
`(present via speakerphone)
`4
`5 MEGAN J. REDMOND, Esquire
`Erise IP PA
`6
` 7015 College Boulevard
` Suite 700
` Overland Park, Kansas 66211
` Tel: (913) 777-5600
` Fax: (913) 777-5601
` megan.redmond@eriseip.com
`
`14
`15 On behalf of the Patent Owner:
`16 M. COLLIN QUIGLEY, Esquire
`17 McCathern, PLLC
` 3710 Rawlins Street
`18
` Suite 1600
` Dallas, Texas 75219
` Tel: (214) 741-2662
` Fax: (214) 741-4717
` E-mail: Cquigley@mccathernlaw.com
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`1
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`CHRISTOPHER M. BARKLEY, Esquire
`2 McCathern, PLLC
` 523 West Sixth Street
`3
` Suite 830
` Los Angeles, California 90014
` Tel: (213) 225-6150
` Fax: (213) 225-6151
` Cbarkley@McCathernlaw.com
`
`7
`
`8
`
`Also Present: (via telephone)
` Mr. Sam Korte
`
`Court Reporter:
` Thomas R. Brezina, CRR, RMR, CCR-B-2035
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` A I will.
`
` Q Great. And if you have answered my
`
`question, it's safe to assume that you have
`
`understood my question. Is that fair as well?
`
` A Yes, it is.
`
` Q Great. And is there any medical reason
`
`that would prevent you from giving truthful
`
`testimony here today?
`
` A No.
`
` Q Great. About how many times have you
`
`served as an expert witness?
`
` A Quite a few times. Probably around 25
`
`to 30, maybe more.
`
` Q Maybe more. About how many times have
`
`you been deposed, do you think? About the same
`
`amount?
`
` A Yes. Maybe a little more. Maybe 50 to
`
`75 or a little more.
`
` Q Great. I'd like to begin today by
`
`talking about the Stewart reference, and it's, for
`
`the record, in tab six of your deposition binder,
`
`and for the record, that is Garmin Exhibit 1004. So
`
`let me know when you have turned to the Stewart
`
`reference.
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`www.alaris.us
`
`ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376
`
`2 (Pages 5 to 8)
`
`Fax: 314.644.1334
`
`IPR2018-00564
`Garmin EX1021 Page 2
`
`

`

` VIJAY K. MADISETTI, Ph.D. 2/7/2019
`
`Page 9
`
`Page 11
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
` A Yes. I'm at the Stewart reference,
`Exhibit Number --
` Q Great.
` A -- 6 (sic).
` Q If you had -- perfect. And if you will
`turn to exhibit -- or, sorry, figure one of Exhibit
`1004, I would appreciate it.
` (A cellular telephone rang.)
` THE WITNESS: One second. Was it
` figure one?
`BY MS. REDMOND:
` Q Figure one, please, of Exhibit 1004,
`which is the Stewart reference.
` A Yes. I'm at figure one.
` Q Trying to talk through this figure with
`you this morning. I see we have a -- do you see
`Number 11 in the upper left-hand corner?
` A Yes. There is a Number 11 on the upper
`left corner.
` Q And what is Number 11? If it's helpful
`to refresh your recollection, you can go to column
`six, line 13.
` A Yes. I'm at column six. I was going
`through those sections. There are --
` Q Yes.
`
` A -- three accelerometers. There are
`three accelerometers numbered ten through 12.
`
`Page 10
`
` Q No. I'm just asking -- I'm just asking
`for your general understanding of accelerometers.
` A Outside the context of this IPR, I
`mean, and outside the context of the '576, I would
`say that this would generally be a good description
`of an accelerometer.
`
` Q And then from the accelerometer there,
`11, I see the diagram is an arrow pointing to an AD
`converter on figure one. Do you see that?
` A I can see a block 46 in figure one.
`That is titled A-to-D converter.
`
` Q Right. And what is a purpose here of
`the AD converter?
` A As described in columns eight -- column
`eight of the specification of the 972 patent, which
`is the Stewart patent, the A-to-D converter would --
`would receive as a part of its input channels, the
`outputs of the accelerometer and provide, for
`example, a 12-bit representation as described --
`
` Q Right.
` A -- in columns eight, 40 through 50.
`
` Q Right. So is the accelerometer sending
`analog signals to the AD converter, 46?
` A The accelerometer is receiving analog
`signals from the -- the A-to-D converter is
`
`Page 12
`
`receiving analog signals from the accelerometer,
`
`yes.
`
` Q Thank you. Thank you for that. And --
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
` Q Great. So turning back to figure one
`for me, please, you'd agree with me that 11 is an
`accelerometer?
` A Yes.
`
` Q And then that accelerometer, what is it
`doing there? What is the purpose of the
`accelerometer here?
` A I understand the -- the specification
`of column six describing the various embodiments
`with these accelerometers, ten through 12.
`
` Q Sure. But generally what
`functionality -- what functions is the accelerometer
`performing in figure one?
` A I think they're listed in column six
`with respect to identifying translational, angular,
`and normal accelerations in column --
`
` Q Is it -- oh, sorry. Finish.
` A Yes. In column six, lines ten through
`12.
`
` Q And is this description consistent with
`what you understand to be an accelerometer?
` A Are you referring to a portion of my
`report or declaration? Just to be clear.
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` A It can also --
`
` Q -- as part of that process -- oh, go
`
`ahead.
`
` A Column eight also describes, you could
`
`receive digital inputs as well.
`
` Q But here at least in figure one we have
`
`an AD converter, so those would likely be analog
`
`signals coming across; correct?
`
` A As for column eight, lines 50 to 58, I
`
`believe the embodiment also cover the case where
`
`digital inputs may be received.
`
` Q Sure. I guess my question was specific
`
`with respect to figure one. Here, figure one, why
`
`would you have an A-to-D converter if it was already
`
`in digital?
`
` A Again, you could have different types
`
`of formats and different types of conversions that
`
`the A-to-D converters could do.
`
` Q And I don't see any storage that occurs
`
`between the accelerometer and the AD converter. Do
`
`you? On figure one.
`
` A Figure one is a -- is a high-level
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`www.alaris.us
`
`ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376
`
`3 (Pages 9 to 12)
`
`Fax: 314.644.1334
`
`IPR2018-00564
`Garmin EX1021 Page 3
`
`

`

` VIJAY K. MADISETTI, Ph.D. 2/7/2019
`
`Page 13
`
`Page 15
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`block diagram, and it is not, I believe, intended to
`
`be a detailed schematic. It is possible that this
`
`data could be stored. The -- it is not unusual for
`
`data from sensors to be collected, stored,
`
`processed, and forwarded.
`
` So, for example, in column ten -- in
`
`column ten and other locations there are several
`
`different embodiments of different types of A-to-D
`
`conversion as well in addition to those in seven and
`
`eight. So one of ordinary skill in the art would --
`
`would view this as a high-level description that may
`
`include local storage as well.
`
`disclosed in that paragraph, is there not?
`
` A Yes. There is a disclosure in column
`
`eight, lines 45 through 50.
`
` Q And did you go and try to determine any
`
`information about the Max 188 disclosed in that
`
`paragraph?
`
` A I'm familiar with similar A-to-D
`
`converters, and I've used several over the past two
`
`decades. The type of converters that include these
`
`multiple channels that have various resolution in
`
`terms of bits -- they use different types of sample
`
`and hold circuitry -- do include local storage in
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` Q Sure. I guess my question is, sticking
`
`terms of sampling, in terms of conversion to the
`
`with figure one here, is there any storage between
`
`the accelerometer and the A-to-D converter? Is
`
`there any storage step?
`
` A My understanding is that reading the
`
`description in column eight, specifically with
`
`respect to the sample and hold feature delineated in
`
`lines 45 through 50, it is possible that there is
`
`some local storage that could include counters and
`
`other hold circuitry.
`
` Q Specifically with respect to figure
`
`one, let me ask the question again. Is there any
`
`storage depicted on figure one between step 11, the
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`right number of bits through successive
`
`approximation of a device. So I'm familiar with the
`
`type of A-to-D converters that are disclosed.
`
` Q My question is -- sure. I'm
`
`specifically asking about the Max 188 disclosed. As
`
`of 1997 are you familiar with the functionality of
`
`that Max 188 disclosed here?
`
` A First of all, the Max 188 is an example
`
`here, and it discloses a number of multi-channel
`
`A-to-D converters. In my experience I've not --
`
`I've looked at similar ones, but I've not -- in the
`
`context of this particular case I have not
`
`Page 16
`
`Page 14
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`accelerometer, and the AD converter, 46?
` A As I said, figure one is a very
`
`high-level description. There is no explicit
`
`identification of specific functionality of each of
`
`these blocks. It is possible that block 46 may have
`
`access, for example, to block 48. It is possible
`
`that block 46 may have access to block 51.
`
` In any case, at the -- to answer your
`
`question, there is no explicit description of a
`
`storage within block 46 as written in English, but
`
`one of ordinary skill in the art in the light of the
`
`specification and knowledge would understand that
`
`A-to-D converters normally would include some form
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`specifically looked up the data sheet of the Max 188
`
`in this matter. But I'm -- I'm providing you an
`
`answer based on my past experience with similar, if
`
`not the same, type of converter.
`
` Q Obviously Stewart discloses a -- are
`
`you familiar with the HAT system? Is that right?
`
` A Yes.
`
` Q And you're familiar with the fact that
`
`that HAT system can be used on multiple body parts;
`
`is that correct?
`
` A Could you refer me to the
`
`specification --
`
` Q Sure.
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`of storage.
`
` Q And as far as Stewart's description of
`
`A-to-D converter 46, is there any explicit teaching
`
`in Stewart that that A-to-D converter, 46, had
`
`storage?
` A Yes. In column eight it describes the
`
`use of a hold type of feature, so using hold, using
`
`counters, and other types of disclosures of column
`
`eight, lines 40 through 60, would indicate that
`
`there is explicit disclosure of forms of storage
`
`within the embodiments disclosed in the 972.
`
` Q And I see that there is a Max 188
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` A -- that you are referring to?
`
` Q Sure. Exhibit 1004, column four,
`
`starting at line 32, it says, "While developed
`
`specifically for the head, monitoring of other body
`
`parts or the body in general is envisioned."
`
` Do you see that?
`
` A In the summary of the invention there
`
`is the disclosure that you just read out.
`
` Q Right. So you would agree with me,
`
`then, as one of ordinary skill in the art, Stewart's
`
`invention applied to not just the head, but other
`
`body parts?
`
`www.alaris.us
`
`ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376
`
`4 (Pages 13 to 16)
`
`Fax: 314.644.1334
`
`IPR2018-00564
`Garmin EX1021 Page 4
`
`

`

` VIJAY K. MADISETTI, Ph.D. 2/7/2019
`
`Page 17
`
`Page 19
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
` A Yes. It is contemplated and envisioned
`
`that the invention, though specifically designed for
`
`the head, could in general monitor -- monitor other
`
`body parts.
`
` Q And is the head a body part, in your
`
`opinion?
`
` A Yes.
`
` Q But you'd agree with me, for example, a
`
`golf club would not be a body part; correct?
`
` A A golf club is not a -- I don't believe
`
`it's a -- it's a body part.
`
` Q And one of the goals of Stewart is, it
`
`was designed to not inhibit or impact the ability of
`
`a user to perform a sport; correct?
`
` A Again, could you refer me to the
`
`section that you're referring to?
`
` Q Are you generally familiar with the
`
`contents in the disclosures of Stewart in connection
`
`with your opinions?
`
` A Yes, I am. But since it is a very
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
` Q You don't understand that -- I believe
`
`Stewart does talk about illegal sparring moves in
`
`football. Correct?
`
` A Where do you see that?
`
` Q You don't recall that one way or
`
`another from your review of Stewart?
`
` A I mean, as I said, I mean, Stewart has
`
`a lot of disclosures. I mean, could you be more
`
`specific?
`
` Q No. I'm just asking you generally
`
`about your understanding of Stewart. So, for
`
`example, Stewart tries to let the sportsman move how
`
`they're going to move in their respective sport and
`
`the invention itself not inhibit that movement. Do
`
`you agree with that?
`
` A I mean, again, I would say that we
`
`should refer to the description that -- in column
`
`six, 25 through 29, in Stewart's own words. I would
`
`agree that it would allow the sports person to
`
`perform the sport without hindering, inhibiting, or
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`precise question, if you have a particular section
`
`that you are trying to get me to comment on, I'll be
`
`glad to do that.
`
` Q So six, line 27.
`
` A Yes. I'm looking at column six, lines
`
`Page 18
`
`27.
`
` Q Yes. And actually I believe it starts
`closer to 25.
` A Okay.
`
` Q "In this way the HAT is comfortable
`enough for the sports person to wear in relevant
`everyday sports activities without hindering,
`inhibiting, or otherwise affecting the ability of
`the user to perform a sport"; correct?
` A Yes. That is what the specification
`confirms in column six, lines 25 through 29.
`
` Q And that is consistent with your
`understanding of Stewart: That it is trying to let
`the sportsman play the sport without any inhibiting
`based on the Stewart invention; correct?
` A Yes. That is consistent with this
`portion of the specification, that it's comfortable
`enough without hindering, inhibiting, or otherwise
`affecting the ability of the user to perform the
`sport.
`
` Q Right. So, for example, if someone
`wants to do an illegal sparring move in football,
`the Stewart invention is not going to inhibit them
`from doing that; correct?
` A I don't see that disclosure here.
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`otherwise affecting. I don't see any disclosure
`
`that it -- I don't see a disclosure of Stewart with
`
`respect to illegal moves, unless you can --
`
` Q Sure.
`
` A -- you can point something to me.
`
`Page 20
`
` Q I'm just asking for your general
`understanding of Stewart in connection with your
`opinions here. So with respect to --
` A I don't see --
` Q -- Stewart --
` A Yes. I don't see such --
` Q Go ahead.
` A I don't see the explicit connection
`here.
` Q Understood. And with respect to
`Stewart, it's trying to not restrain any movement;
`correct?
` A My understanding is that it does not
`hinder, inhibit, or otherwise affect the ability of
`the user to perform the sport. That's how I would
`characterize in Stewart's own words.
` Q So you don't have an opinion about
`whether Stewart restrains any movement?
` A I mean, you're using certain claim
`language from the '576, which is causing, I believe,
`the confusion. Stewart in his own words describes
`in column six that everyday sports can be -- are not
`affected, and there is no hindering, inhibiting, or
`otherwise affecting the ability of the user to
`perform the sport.
`
`www.alaris.us
`
`ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376
`
`5 (Pages 17 to 20)
`
`Fax: 314.644.1334
`
`IPR2018-00564
`Garmin EX1021 Page 5
`
`

`

` VIJAY K. MADISETTI, Ph.D. 2/7/2019
`
`Page 21
`
`Page 23
`
` So I agree with you with respect to
`
`column six, lines 25 to 30, but you're asking me to
`
`essentially say if it discloses a claim limitation
`
`or a portion of a claim limitation, so I would say
`
`that is your burden.
`
` Q Right. So -- but I'm asking you as
`
`someone who's offered opinions here, does Stewart
`
`restrain any movement?
`
` A It does not hinder, inhibit, or
`
`otherwise affect the ability of the user to perform
`
`the sport. That is how I would say that. And
`
`certainly if there is movement to perform the sport,
`
`it wouldn't affect that.
`
` Q So do you agree that Stewart teaches
`
`limit -- in claim 20, limitation 20A? In your
`
`opinion?
`
` A Okay. So which patent are you talking
`
`about?
`
` Q I'm talking about the asserted patent
`
`under tab five.
`
` A I mean, I understand that this is an
`
`IPR. I mean, what is asserted here?
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`entire claim as a whole where the device has
`
`different types of, for example, steps in this
`
`method claim. There is a measuring step, an
`
`interpreting step, a number of storing steps,
`
`detecting steps. All these pertain and provide the
`
`necessary context to the attaching limitation. So
`
`in that sense the ability -- I would disagree
`
`that -- that the petitioner or its expert has fully
`
`connected Stewart to how --
`
` Q In --
`
` A -- this measuring device would be
`
`satisfied.
`
` Q And I believe in -- behind tab two is
`
`your expert declaration, which for the record is
`
`LoganTree 2001, and did you include these opinions
`
`in your report?
`
` A Yes.
`
` Q And specifically pointing you to the
`
`paragraph you're referring to there.
`
` A Yes. So I have a -- a general
`
`discussion in paragraph 37 with respect to claim 20,
`
`and here is where I disagree that -- I disagree that
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
` Q On claim 20.
`
`24
`
`25
`
` A On '576?
`
` Q Yes.
`
`Page 22
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` A Okay. With respect to claim 20, you're
`
`referring to the limitation that he's starting with
`
`attaching?
`
` Q Yes.
`
` A Yes. As I describe in my declaration
`
`associated with, I believe, the 564 and the 565 IPR
`
`investigations, this limitation, when read in the
`
`context of the entire claim, has the issue that you
`
`are measuring certain movement as required in the
`
`claim. And in my opinion the petitioner has not
`
`explained how this movement measuring device is able
`
`to carry out the measurement in the context of the
`
`entire claim.
`
` Q But just focusing here on the first
`
`limitation, would you say that Stewart teaches that
`
`limitation?
`
` A Again, as I said, I disagree with
`
`that -- I disagree with the -- with the contention
`
`that the petitioner or its expert has fully
`
`explained the connection between Stewart and this
`
`particular limitation in the sense that the
`
`measurement is not in the manner as claimed.
`
` Q And how is that measurement claimed in
`
`your opinion, then?
`
` A I think we have to go through the
`
`-- I clearly state that the claim requires that you
`
`measure data in the manner of figure A1 that I show
`
`on page 21.
`
`Page 24
`
` And then when we go to the specific
`description of Stewart, and I believe that is in the
`following pages, I do also describe that Stewart
`are -- in paragraphs 62, 63, 64, that -- and 65, for
`example, where the -- the way the measurement is
`done is not the -- is not in the way that the
`operation of the sensor would be performed in the
`light of the claim 20 of the '576. And then I
`provide a sort of summary of that later on when we
`go through specific claims and a claim-by-claim
`analysis.
` Q And specifically focusing on the
`measuring for the claim limitation, what is your
`interpretation of measuring?
` A It is just that the measuring should be
`done in the way that the claim requires it to be
`done. I'm not --
` Q And how does the claim require it? Do
`you have a specific construction for the word
`"measuring"?
` A What I said here is measuring means
`measuring. I mean, I'm not offering any
`construction of measuring. Measuring is defined. I
`mean, measuring is well described by the term
`"measuring." The measuring data -- the claim
`
`24
`
`25
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`www.alaris.us
`
`ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376
`
`6 (Pages 21 to 24)
`
`Fax: 314.644.1334
`
`IPR2018-00564
`Garmin EX1021 Page 6
`
`

`

` VIJAY K. MADISETTI, Ph.D. 2/7/2019
`
`Page 25
`
`Page 27
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`1
`
`requires that you measure data associated with the
`physical movement and interpreting it and storing it
`and detecting it.
` So insofar as the attaching limitation
`refers to a measuring device, that also satisfies
`these additional -- satisfies these features, it is
`my opinion that the petitioner and the petitioners'
`expert has not connected the dots and provided a
`credible explanation as to how the attaching
`limitation is met.
` (Court Reporter clarification.)
` THE WITNESS: Is met, M-E-T.
`BY MS. REDMOND:
`
` Q So is your opinion, an accelerometer
`doesn't measure any movement?
` A I disagree. I'm not contesting
`accelerometers or how they operate. I'm contesting
`the architecture of Stewart. There is no
`explanation that the operation of the device in the
`attaching limitation is measuring data in the manner
`that involves the microprocessor, the user-defined
`operational parameters, and a realtime clock and so
`on.
` I have no -- I'm not saying that you
`need a particular type of accelerator or not. I'm
`
`Page 26
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`1
`
` A Yes. I'm on page 21 of my declaration,
`
`which I believe is Exhibit -- what is the exhibit
`
`number?
`
` Q It's 2001 at the bottom.
` A Oh, okay. It's 2001 in the 564 --
`
` Q Yes.
` A -- in the 564 declaration, yes.
`
` Q Yes. And you have a picture there of a
`
`claimed invention. Do you see that?
` A Yes. It is the -- I've created this as
`
`a -- as an example that would illustrate in some
`
`sense an embodiment of the '576 that would satisfy
`
`the claims.
`
` Q Which claim are you referring to? You
`
`say claimed invention of the '576. Which claim are
`
`you referring this depicts?
` A To this extent of this particular --
`
`these -- this page 22, I'm also using that figure to
`
`explain claim 20 and its dependent claims, and I use
`
`this figure in --
`
` Q And did you --
` A -- I use this figure also in the other
`
`declaration to explain the other claims that are
`
`part of the 565 investigation as well.
`
` Q And did you personally create this
`
`Page 28
`
`not offering any opinions that the accelerators of
`
`Stewart or Rush or Richardson are lacking in any
`
`way. All I'm saying here is that the -- in the
`
`context of the claim, the attaching step is not met
`
`because the petitioner and its expert has not shown
`
`sufficient connection from the evidence to the
`
`measuring device in this limitation that operates in
`
`the manner of the claim as a whole.
`
` Q Right. But you agree with me
`
`accelerometers would measure body movement; correct?
`
` A Again, separate from the claim,
`
`accelerators can measure body movement, and it is
`
`just that the attaching limitation as claimed in
`
`claim 20 of the '576 has not been fully demonstrated
`
`by the petitioner or its expert.
`
` Q And then on page 21 you have a diagram
`
`you created that says, "Claimed invention" --
`
` A One second.
`
` Q -- for '576.
`
` A One second. You're referring to my
`
`report?
`
` Q Yes.
`
` A Okay. So let me get there. On
`
`page 21 --
`
` Q Yes. Exhibit 2001.
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`figure on your computer?
` A Yes, I did.
` Q And you also have a figure on page 23
`of Exhibit 2001 that has a title Stewart. Do you
`see that?
` A Yes, I do.
` Q And do you believe this is an accurate
`depiction of what is disclosed in Stewart?
` A As I said, it is a -- a description to
`explain my opinions. It is how I would understand
`some portions of Stewart in the sense that it does
`not meet many of the limitations of the '576,
`including the limitation we just discussed.
` Q Is there anything in your figure on 23
`that as you sit here today you believe is
`inaccurate?
` A I don't want figure A2 for Stewart
`to -- to substitute or override any disclosure of
`Stewart. I provide this figure as a guide to
`understand my opinions. This figure should not be
`viewed as a full disclosure and -- of Stewart's
`contents and its substitution. Stewart speaks for
`itself. I provide this as a high-level simplified
`view of Stewart.
` Q Sir, my question was different. Is
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`www.alaris.us
`
`ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376
`
`7 (Pages 25 to 28)
`
`Fax: 314.644.1334
`
`IPR2018-00564
`Garmin EX1021 Page 7
`
`

`

` VIJAY K. MADISETTI, Ph.D. 2/7/2019
`
`Page 29
`
`Page 31
`
`there anything in this figure today as you sit here
`
`in your deposition that you believe is wrong, based
`
`on the disclosures of Stewart?
`
` A As I said, in my opinion this is a
`
`high-level description that should be read along
`
`with my opinions and the basis for the opinions. It
`
`should not be viewed separately from the text of my
`
`declaration. There is no --
`
` Q Sir, my question --
`
` A -- specific -- there is no specific
`
`error in this high-level description because it
`
`represents one embodiment of Stewart that I felt
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`It is provided as a means by which the board may
`
`read and review my declaration in an aid to
`
`understanding my discussion about Richardson, Rush,
`
`and Stewart.
`
` So in that sense these figures about
`
`Stewart, Rush, Richardson, and the '576 should not
`
`be taken -- divorced from the content of my
`
`declaration or the explicit and other disclosures in
`
`Stewart, Rush, Richardson themselves.
`
` So these are just caricatures or
`
`high-level representations that would aid in
`
`understanding. They are neither complete nor fully
`
`was -- was support -- would support the board in
`
`detailed. They are just guideposts that help
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`understanding Stewart. It is not meant to be
`
`replacing any description of Stewart that otherwise
`
`appears in my declaration.
`
` Q And with respect to page 25 there is a
`
`description of a Rush. Is there anything that is
`
`inaccurate in your description of Rush based on your
`
`testimony here today?
`
` A As I described with respect to Stewart
`
`figure on page 23, this figure on page 25 for Rush
`
`again is a high-level potentially incomplete
`
`description of Rush. It is meant to be read in
`
`context and together with my declarations, texts,
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`understand my opinions and assist and should be
`
`viewed in accompaniment and together with the text
`
`of my declaration along with the detailed
`
`specifications of the prior art references
`
`themselves.
`
` Q So you believe that the best resource
`
`for information regarding Stewart is actually what
`
`is disclosed in Stewart? Is that what you are
`
`indicating here today?
`
` A I think my answer was pretty clear.