· · · · · · UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
`
`· · · · · · · EASTERN DISTRICT OF TEXAS
`
`· · · · · · · · · MARSHALL DIVISION
`
`· · · · · · · · · · · ·--oOo--
`
`ALACRITECH, INC,· · · · · · · · ·)
`· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·)
`· · · · · · · · · ·Plaintiff,· · )
`· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·)
`· · · · ·vs.· · · · · · · · · · ·)· Case No.
`· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·)· 2:16-CV-693-JRG
`CENTURYLINK COMMUNICATIONS, LLC, )
`et al.,· · · · · · · · · · · · · )
`· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·)
`· · · · · · · · · ·Defendants.· ·)
`_________________________________)
`· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·)
`AND ALL RELATED CASES.· · · · · ·)
`_________________________________)
`
`· · · · · · · ·VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF
`
`· · · · · · · · · · · PAUL MIN
`
`· · · · · · · · _____________________
`
`· · · · · · · Tuesday, March 21, 2017
`
`REPORTED BY:· SANDRA BOSTOW, CSR# 5770· ·(SF-117962)
`
`Ex.1077.001
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`DELL
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`· · · · · · · EASTERN DISTRICT OF TEXAS
`
`· · · · · · · · · MARSHALL DIVISION
`
`· · · · · · · · · · · ·--oOo--
`
`ALACRITECH, INC,· · · · · · · · ·)
`· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·)
`· · · · · · · · · ·Plaintiff,· · )
`· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·)
`· · · · ·vs.· · · · · · · · · · ·)· Case No.
`· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·)· 2:16-CV-693-JRG
`CENTURYLINK COMMUNICATIONS, LLC, )
`et al.,· · · · · · · · · · · · · )
`· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·)
`· · · · · · · · · ·Defendants.· ·)
`_________________________________)
`· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·)
`AND ALL RELATED CASES.· · · · · ·)
`_________________________________)
`
`· · · · · · · ·VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF
`
`· · · · · · · · · · · PAUL MIN
`
`· · · · · · · · _____________________
`
`· · · · · · · Tuesday, March 21, 2017
`
`REPORTED BY:· SANDRA BOSTOW, CSR# 5770· ·(SF-117962)
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`Ex.1077.001
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`·1· · · · · · · · · · · · ·I N D E X
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`·2
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`·3· · · · · · · · · ·INDEX OF EXAMINATIONS
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`·4· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·Page
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`·5· ·Examination by Mr. Stephens· · · · · · · · · ·7, 292
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`·6· ·Examination by Ms. Clark· · · · · · · · · · · · ·284
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`·7
`
`·8
`
`·9
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`10· · · · · · ·EXHIBITS MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION
`
`11· ·No.· · · · · · · · ·Description· · · · · · · · ·Page
`
`12· ·Exhibit 1· · ·Declaration of Paul Min in
`· · · · · · · · · ·Support of Claim Construction,
`13· · · · · · · · ·2/22/17; Paul Min Rebuttal
`· · · · · · · · · ·Declaration, 3/8/17· · · · · · · · 9
`14
`· · ·Exhibit 2· · ·Paul Min Declaration
`15· · · · · · · · ·Exhibits 1-24· · · · · · · · · · · 9
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`16· ·Exhibit 3· · ·Certified Asserted Patents· · · · ·9
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`17· ·Exhibit 4· · ·Patent '809 provisional
`· · · · · · · · · ·application
`18· · · · · · · · ·Bates-stamped ALA00138383-138516· ·35
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`19· · · · · · · · · · · · · --oOo--
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`22
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`23
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`Ex.1077.002
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`·1· · · · · · · · · · · · · --o0o--
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`·2· · · · · · Videotaped Deposition of PAUL MIN, taken by
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`·3· ·Intervenor Intel Corporation at the Law Offices of
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`·4· ·Quinn, Emanuel, Urquhart & Sullivan, 50 California
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`·5· ·Street, 22nd Floor, San Francisco, California,
`
`·6· ·commencing at 10:02 a.m., on March 21, 2017, before
`
`·7· ·SANDRA BOSTOW, CSR No. 5770, pursuant to Notice.
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`·8· · · · · · · · · · · · · --o0o--
`
`·9
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`10· · · · · · · · · ·A P P E A R A N C E S
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`11· ·FOR PLAINTIFF ALACRITECH, INC.:
`
`12· · · · · · QUINN, EMANUEL, URQUHART & SULLIVAN, LLP
`· · · · · · · 50 California Street, 22nd Floor
`13· · · · · · San Francisco, California 94111
`· · · · · · · 415.875.6600
`14· · · · · · By:· MICHELLE ANN CLARK, Attorney at Law
`· · · · · · · · · ·michelleclark@quinnemanuel.com
`15
`
`16· ·FOR INTERVENOR INTEL CORPORATION:
`
`17· · · · · · WEIL, GOTSHAL & MANGES, LLP
`· · · · · · · 700 Louisiana, Suite 1700
`18· · · · · · Houston, Texas 77002-2755
`· · · · · · · 713.546.5011
`19· · · · · · By:· GARLAND STEPHENS, Attorney at Law
`· · · · · · · · · ·garland.stephens@weil.com
`20· · · · · · · · ·JUSTIN CONSTANT, Attorney at Law
`· · · · · · · · · ·justin.constant@weil.com
`21
`
`22· ·FOR DEFENDANT DELL INC.:
`
`23· · · · · · ALSTON & BIRD, LLP
`· · · · · · · 2828 North Harwood Street, Suite 1800
`24· · · · · · Dallas, Texas 75201-2139
`· · · · · · · 214.992.3400
`25· · · · · · By:· MICHAEL J. NEWTON, Attorney at Law
`· · · · · · · · · ·mike.newton@alston.com
`
`Ex.1077.003
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`DELL
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`·1· ·FOR DEFENDANTS WISTRON CORPORATION, WIWYNN
`· · ·CORPORATION, and SMS INFOCOMM CORPORATION:
`·2
`· · · · · · · K&L GATES
`·3· · · · · · Four Embarcadero Center, Suite 1200
`· · · · · · · San Francisco, California 94111-5994
`·4· · · · · · 415.882.8200
`· · · · · · · By:· RACHEL E. BURNIM, Attorney at Law
`·5· · · · · · · · ·rachel.burnim@klgates.com
`· · · · · · · · · ·MIN WU, Attorney at Law
`·6· · · · · · · · ·min.wu@klgates.com
`
`·7
`· · ·FOR DEFENDANT CENTURYLINK COMMUNICATIONS, LLC:
`·8
`· · · · · · · COOLEY, LLP
`·9· · · · · · One Freedom Square
`· · · · · · · Reston Town Center
`10· · · · · · 11951 Freedom Drive
`· · · · · · · Reston, Virginia 20190-5656
`11· · · · · · 703.456.8567
`· · · · · · · By:· FRANK PIETRANTONIO, Attorney at Law
`12· · · · · · · · ·fpietrantonio@cooley.com
`
`13
`· · ·ALSO PRESENT:· Tom Filmyer, videographer
`14
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`15
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`16
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`17
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`18
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`19
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`20
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`21
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`22
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`23
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`25
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`Ex.1077.004
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`·1· · SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA; TUESDAY, MARCH 21, 2017
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`·2· · · · · · · · · · · · 10:02 A.M.
`
`·3· · · · · · · · · · · · · --o0o--
`
`·4· · · · · · · · · ·P R O C E E D I N G S
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`·5· · · · · · THE VIDEOGRAPHER:· Good morning.· This
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`·6· ·begins video disk No. 1, Volume I, in the deposition
`
`·7· ·of Dr. Paul Min in the matter of Alacritech, Inc.,
`
`·8· ·versus CenturyLink Communications, LLC, et al., and
`
`·9· ·related cases.· This matter is being heard in the
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`10· ·U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of
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`11· ·Texas, Marshall Division.· Our case number is
`
`12· ·2:16-CV-693-JRG.
`
`13· · · · · · Today's date is March 21, 2017.· The time
`
`14· ·on the video monitor is 10:02 a.m.· Your video
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`15· ·operator today is Tom Filmyer.· I am contracted by
`
`16· ·DTI Global of San Francisco.· This video deposition
`
`17· ·is taking place at the Law Offices of Quinn Emanuel
`
`18· ·in San Francisco.
`
`19· · · · · · Counsel, would you please voice identify
`
`20· ·yourselves and state who you represent.
`
`21· · · · · · MS. CLARK:· Michelle Clark from Quinn
`
`22· ·Emanuel, Urquhart & Sullivan representing Alacritech
`
`23· ·and the witness today.
`
`24· · · · · · MR. STEPHENS:· I'm Garland Stephens of
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`25· ·Weil, Gotshal & Manges representing the Intervenor
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`Ex.1077.005
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`DELL
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`·1· ·Intel Corporation.
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`·2· · · · · · MR. NEWTON:· Michael Newton from the law
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`·3· ·firm Alston & Bird representing defendant Dell Inc.
`
`·4· · · · · · MS. BURNIM:· Rachel Burnim from the law
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`·5· ·firm K&L Gates representing Wistron, Wiwynn & SMS.
`
`·6· ·And with me is my colleague Min Wu.
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`·7· · · · · · MR. PIETRANTONIO:· Frank Pietrantonio from
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`·8· ·Cooley, LLP, representing the CenturyLink
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`·9· ·defendants.
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`10· · · · · · THE VIDEOGRAPHER:· Thank you.· And on the
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`11· ·phone?
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`12· · · · · · MR. CONSTANT:· Justin Constant with Weil,
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`13· ·Gotshal & Manges also representing the Intervenor
`
`14· ·Intel.
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`15· · · · · · THE VIDEOGRAPHER:· Okay.· Thank you.
`
`16· · · · · · Our court reporter today is Sandy Bostow of
`
`17· ·DTI Global.
`
`18· · · · · · And would you please swear in the witness.
`
`19· · · · · · · · · · · · ·PAUL MIN,
`
`20· · · · · · · · · _______________________
`
`21· ·called as a witness, who, having been first duly
`
`22· ·sworn, was examined and testified as follows:
`
`23· · · · · · · · · · · · ·--oOo--
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`24· · · · · · THE VIDEOGRAPHER:· Thank you.· Please
`
`25· ·begin.
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`Ex.1077.006
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`·1· · · · · · · · EXAMINATION BY MR. STEPHENS
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`·2· ·BY MR. STEPHENS:
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`·3· · · · Q.· Thank you.· Good morning, Dr. Min.
`
`·4· · · · A.· Good morning.
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`·5· · · · Q.· Thank you for coming today.
`
`·6· · · · A.· Thank you.
`
`·7· · · · Q.· You have put together some declarations
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`·8· ·that are going to be or have been submitted in
`
`·9· ·connection with this case; correct?
`
`10· · · · A.· Yes.
`
`11· · · · Q.· Did you work with an attorney named Mark
`
`12· ·Lauer in connection with any of that?
`
`13· · · · A.· I do not believe so.
`
`14· · · · Q.· Okay.· Or a law firm called Silicon Edge or
`
`15· ·Silicon Law Group?
`
`16· · · · A.· No.
`
`17· · · · Q.· No, okay.· Do you know who they are?
`
`18· · · · A.· No.
`
`19· · · · Q.· Do you know who Mark Lauer is?
`
`20· · · · A.· No.
`
`21· · · · Q.· Okay.· If you could, sir, describe for me a
`
`22· ·bit about your background with respect to transport
`
`23· ·and network layer protocol processing.
`
`24· · · · · · MS. CLARK:· Before you do that, do you want
`
`25· ·to grab your reports?· I realize that I removed
`
`Ex.1077.007
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`DELL
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`·1· ·them.· I apologize.
`
`·2· · · · · · MR. STEPHENS:· I have copies we can mark if
`
`·3· ·you want to do that.
`
`·4· · · · · · MS. CLARK:· It's up to you.· They were
`
`·5· ·sitting where he was sitting, and I think the night
`
`·6· ·crew cleaned and moved them over, so I can bring
`
`·7· ·those back over to you.
`
`·8· · · · · · MR. STEPHENS:· Is it okay if we mark those?
`
`·9· ·Because I want a marked set.
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`10· · · · · · MS. CLARK:· They're not marked.· I'm
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`11· ·totally agnostic as to whether we grab his set that
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`12· ·I inadvertently moved.
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`13· · · · · · MR. STEPHENS:· We'll have one more if you
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`14· ·want to do that.
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`15· · · · · · MS. CLARK:· Okay.· I'll go grab them for
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`16· ·you.
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`17· · · · · · MR. STEPHENS:· Oh, I thought they were in
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`18· ·here.
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`19· · · · · · MR. NEWTON:· It's not professional to climb
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`20· ·over that.
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`21· · · · · · MR. STEPHENS:· I guess not.
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`22· · · · · · Oh, my.
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`23· · · · · · MS. CLARK:· Do you want to look at them?
`
`24· · · · · · MR. STEPHENS:· Yeah.· Okay.· So that's the
`
`25· ·opening one, I guess.· Let's mark that one as Min
`
`Ex.1077.008
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`DELL
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`·1· ·Exhibit 1.
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`·2· · · · · · (Whereupon Deposition Exhibit 1 was
`
`·3· · · · · · marked for identification.)
`
`·4· · · · · · MR. STEPHENS:· Min Exhibit 1 is the
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`·5· ·February 22, 2017, declaration of Paul Min in
`
`·6· ·support of claim construction bound with the
`
`·7· ·March 8, 2017, Min rebuttal declaration.
`
`·8· · · · · · I'll hand that to you, sir, while she marks
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`·9· ·the next one.
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`10· · · · · · THE WITNESS:· Thank you.
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`11· · · · · · (Whereupon Deposition Exhibit 2 was
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`12· · · · · · marked for identification.)
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`13· · · · · · MR. STEPHENS:· And this is a bound copy of
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`14· ·Exhibits 1 through 24, I believe.
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`15· · · · · · (Whereupon Deposition Exhibit 3 was
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`16· · · · · · marked for identification.)
`
`17· · · · · · MR. STEPHENS:· And Min Exhibit 3 is a bound
`
`18· ·collection of the asserted patents.
`
`19· · · · Q.· And, Dr. Min, if you could just confirm
`
`20· ·that for me, that Min Exhibit 1 is a copy of your
`
`21· ·two declarations.· Is that right?
`
`22· · · · A.· Yes.
`
`23· · · · Q.· And Min Exhibit 2 is a bound copy of the
`
`24· ·exhibits to your two declarations?
`
`25· · · · A.· Yes.
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`Ex.1077.009
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`DELL
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`·1· · · · Q.· And then Min Exhibit 3 is a set of the
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`·2· ·asserted patents about which you've provided
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`·3· ·declarations?
`
`·4· · · · A.· Yes, that's correct.
`
`·5· · · · Q.· Okay.· Thank you.· Now, if we could go back
`
`·6· ·to my question.· If you could just tell us a little
`
`·7· ·bit about your background with respect specifically
`
`·8· ·to transport and network layer protocol processing.
`
`·9· · · · A.· I would be happy to.· So I am currently on
`
`10· ·the faculty at the Washington University in
`
`11· ·St. Louis.· I joined the faculty in 1990 to work on
`
`12· ·at the time was perhaps the forefront of
`
`13· ·communication technology, which was ATM,
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`14· ·asynchronous transports mode.· And there, of course,
`
`15· ·you know, we are building hardwares and software
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`16· ·which include transport and network layer.
`
`17· · · · · · And for the past 27 years of my being at
`
`18· ·Washington University, I've been working on various
`
`19· ·layers, really studying all seven layers in the
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`20· ·protocol step in which network layer and transport
`
`21· ·layer are a part.· In particular, starting about the
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`22· ·mid-1990s, 1995 and on, I've been heavily involved
`
`23· ·in building a prototype, both in academic setting at
`
`24· ·the Washington University as well as in my own
`
`25· ·companies.· And there we are doing many processing
`
`Ex.1077.010
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`DELL
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`·1· ·at the, you know, network and transport layers.· And
`
`·2· ·I have a pretty extensive experience in those layers
`
`·3· ·as well as others.
`
`·4· · · · Q.· You mentioned seven layers.· Is that the
`
`·5· ·OSI protocol model?
`
`·6· · · · A.· Yes.
`
`·7· · · · Q.· And the TCP/IP protocol model does not have
`
`·8· ·seven layers; is that right?
`
`·9· · · · · · MS. CLARK:· Object to form.
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`10· · · · · · THE WITNESS:· TCP/IP model, you said?
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`11· ·BY MR. STEPHENS:
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`12· · · · Q.· Yes.
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`13· · · · A.· Those two layers, you know, they are so
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`14· ·frequently used together, they are layers 3 and 4.
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`15· ·There might be some encroachment to others up or
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`16· ·down, but primarily they are TCP being layer 4 and
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`17· ·IP being layer 3.
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`18· · · · Q.· Would you say, then, that TCP corresponds
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`19· ·to the OSI layer 4?
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`20· · · · · · MS. CLARK:· Object to form.
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`21· · · · · · THE WITNESS:· It is a type of layer 4.
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`22· ·It's not the only.· And for the most part TCP
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`23· ·functions are part of layer 4; but, as I said,
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`24· ·there's some encroachment up or down at the
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`25· ·boundary.· But for the most part TCP performs
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`Ex.1077.011
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`·1· ·layer 4 functions.
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`·2· ·BY MR. STEPHENS:
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`·3· · · · Q.· Okay.· And is IP a type of OSI layer 3
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`·4· ·protocol?
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`·5· · · · · · MS. CLARK:· Object to form.
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`·6· · · · · · THE WITNESS:· It is a type of layer 3
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`·7· ·function, layer 3 protocol.· For the most part, once
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`·8· ·again, IP corresponds to -- IP performs layer 3
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`·9· ·functions; but, once again, there's some, you know,
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`10· ·boundary encroachment.
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`11· ·BY MR. STEPHENS:
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`12· · · · Q.· What do you mean by "boundary
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`13· ·encroachment"?
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`14· · · · · · MS. CLARK:· Object to form.
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`15· · · · · · THE WITNESS:· So my experience is that it
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`16· ·depends on -- I mean, IP is not just one
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`17· ·implementation.· There are multiple implementations
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`18· ·for IP by different parties.· And many times my
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`19· ·observation is that, because any implementing party
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`20· ·sometimes do not necessarily trust others to provide
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`21· ·all the functions correctly, they tend to duplicate
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`22· ·it sometimes, just kind of to cover their bases.
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`23· ·BY MR. STEPHENS:
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`24· · · · Q.· Are you familiar with the BSD
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`25· ·implementation of TCP/IP?
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`Ex.1077.012
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`·1· · · · · · MR. STEPHENS:· Object to form.
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`·2· · · · · · THE WITNESS:· Yes, it is a type of
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`·3· ·implementation, and they do a protocol stack
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`·4· ·implementation there as well.
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`·5· ·BY MR. STEPHENS:
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`·6· · · · Q.· Have you worked with the BSD
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`·7· ·implementation?
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`·8· · · · A.· There are different versions.· I know
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`·9· ·FreeBSD, for example.
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`10· · · · Q.· Have you worked with FreeBSD?
`
`11· · · · A.· Yeah.· They are very close to Linux
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`12· ·operating system.
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`13· · · · Q.· Is FreeBSD the one that's described in a
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`14· ·textbook called Stevens TCP/IP?
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`15· · · · · · MS. CLARK:· Object to form.
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`16· · · · · · THE WITNESS:· I am not familiar with that
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`17· ·particular textbook.
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`18· ·BY MR. STEPHENS:
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`19· · · · Q.· Fair enough.· Does FreeBSD do transport
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`20· ·and network layer header processing for
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`21· ·transmission?
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`22· · · · · · MS. CLARK:· Object to form.
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`23· · · · · · THE WITNESS:· I cannot remember that right
`
`24· ·here sitting.· I really haven't looked at FreeBSD in
`
`25· ·a while, so I'd rather not answer that question.
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`Ex.1077.013
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`·1· ·BY MR. STEPHENS:
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`·2· · · · Q.· So you don't know whether BSD TCP/IP
`
`·3· ·implementation does transport layer header
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`·4· ·processing, for example?
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`·5· · · · · · MS. CLARK:· Object to form.
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`·6· · · · · · THE WITNESS:· As I said, you know, there
`
`·7· ·are different implementations there as well.· And
`
`·8· ·these operating systems can be sometimes very
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`·9· ·light footprint, you know, just a few tens of bytes
`
`10· ·even, and sometimes they can be pretty heavy.· So,
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`11· ·you know, it's really difficult to say in
`
`12· ·generality, and also I haven't really looked at it
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`13· ·in a while.
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`14· ·BY MR. STEPHENS:
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`15· · · · Q.· Okay.· Well, what does a TCP/IP protocol
`
`16· ·stack do?
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`17· · · · · · MS. CLARK:· Object to form.
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`18· · · · · · THE WITNESS:· So when one use the word
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`19· ·"stack," one typically implies more than just those
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`20· ·two functions, TCP and IP layer functions.· To be
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`21· ·stacked, you know, we say those are more like TCP/IP
`
`22· ·protocols.· And they are part of a stack and layers,
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`23· ·for the most part, 4 and 3 being what they are as I
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`24· ·just described.· And, you know, they have different
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`25· ·functions they perform.
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`Ex.1077.014
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`·1· ·BY MR. STEPHENS:
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`·2· · · · Q.· Okay.· What functions do they perform?
`
`·3· · · · · · MS. CLARK:· Object to form, outside the
`
`·4· ·scope.
`
`·5· · · · · · THE WITNESS:· So in generality -- and I'm
`
`·6· ·not going to pretend to say everything they
`
`·7· ·perform -- but the transport layer TCP, its job is
`
`·8· ·to -- you know, as the name suggests, is to deliver
`
`·9· ·data over the network and whatever the underlying --
`
`10· ·I mean, I think the purpose initially was TCP could
`
`11· ·use anything below which is at the network layer.
`
`12· ·But very often TCP would use IP and, utilizing
`
`13· ·network layers and below data link and application
`
`14· ·across the network, deliver data in an appropriate
`
`15· ·manner.· That's what transport of data is, and
`
`16· ·that's the function that TCP performs.
`
`17· · · · · · And TCP would do that in a very
`
`18· ·sophisticated way, such as there's some Windows that
`
`19· ·it uses and it will have some kind of flow control
`
`20· ·and it has a very specific packet header.· So it is
`
`21· ·a type of a protocol that perform a suitable
`
`22· ·transport of data across network.· That's what
`
`23· ·transport layer is.
`
`24· · · · · · Similarly for IP, at a network layer
`
`25· ·function it is a type of network layer protocol.
`
`Ex.1077.015
`
`DELL
`
`
`
`·1· ·And network layer is arguably, in my mind at least,
`
`·2· ·perhaps the most complex layer because it involves
`
`·3· ·all the nodes along the way; unlike TCP, where the
`
`·4· ·two nodes at the source and the destinations are
`
`·5· ·involved.· And intermediate nodes along the way
`
`·6· ·across the network are not part of TCP performance.
`
`·7· ·IP layer, on the other hand, would require
`
`·8· ·participation of all the intermediate nodes,
`
`·9· ·switches in orders.
`
`10· · · · · · So the goal of IP network layer function is
`
`11· ·to basically utilizing the payload from transport
`
`12· ·layer above to deliver to the destination in the
`
`13· ·best possible way, and that's what the IP layer
`
`14· ·does.
`
`15· ·BY MR. STEPHENS:
`
`16· · · · Q.· Now, the claims that you've expressed
`
`17· ·opinions about talk about headers for different
`
`18· ·layers; right?
`
`19· · · · · · MS. CLARK:· Object to form.
`
`20· · · · · · THE WITNESS:· The claims themselves?
`
`21· ·BY MR. STEPHENS:
`
`22· · · · Q.· Yeah, the claims themselves.
`
`23· · · · A.· I believe that's right, yes.
`
`24· · · · Q.· Okay.· And they talk about a transport
`
`25· ·layer header; right?
`
`Ex.1077.016
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`DELL
`
`
`
`·1· · · · · · MS. CLARK:· Object to form.
`
`·2· · · · · · THE WITNESS:· I think there are reference
`
`·3· ·to that regard in some of the claims.
`
`·4· ·BY MR. STEPHENS:
`
`·5· · · · Q.· Okay.· And a network layer header; right?
`
`·6· · · · · · MS. CLARK:· Object to form.
`
`·7· · · · · · THE WITNESS:· Network layer header. I
`
`·8· ·think let me just double-check the precise language.
`
`·9· · · · · · MR. STEPHENS:· Sure.
`
`10· · · · · · THE WITNESS:· Can you point to a particular
`
`11· ·claim that I should look at, perhaps?
`
`12· ·BY MR. STEPHENS:
`
`13· · · · Q.· Oh, I think there's lots of them.
`
`14· · · · A.· Yes.
`
`15· · · · Q.· Let me go down here for a second and I'll
`
`16· ·find one.· I'm looking for one that has all three.
`
`17· · · · · · Let's say Patent '241, Claim 1.
`
`18· · · · A.· Just allow me to read the claim.
`
`19· · · · Q.· Sure.· Actually, if I can point you instead
`
`20· ·to Claim 9, that also has the MAC header.
`
`21· · · · A.· Okay.
`
`22· · · · Q.· Do you see where that refers to a network
`
`23· ·layer header as Internet protocol?
`
`24· · · · A.· Yes, I do.
`
`25· · · · Q.· And then it says the transport layer header
`
`Ex.1077.017
`
`DELL
`
`
`
`·1· ·is transmission control protocol, TCP?
`
`·2· · · · A.· Yes.
`
`·3· · · · Q.· And then it mentions a media access control
`
`·4· ·layer header also?
`
`·5· · · · · · MS. CLARK:· Object to form.
`
`·6· · · · · · THE WITNESS:· Yes, it does say media access
`
`·7· ·control layer header.
`
`·8· ·BY MR. STEPHENS:
`
`·9· · · · Q.· Okay.· And so in TCP/IP, then, is IP the
`
`10· ·network layer?
`
`11· · · · A.· In this particular claim, that is what
`
`12· ·it --
`
`13· · · · · · MS. CLARK:· Object.· I'm sorry.
`
`14· ·BY MR. STEPHENS:
`
`15· · · · Q.· I mean in general, not limited to this
`
`16· ·claim.· Is IP an example of a network layer
`
`17· ·protocol?
`
`18· · · · A.· Yes, it is.
`
`19· · · · Q.· And an IP packet has an IP header, which is
`
`20· ·a network layer header; correct?
`
`21· · · · · · MS. CLARK:· Object to form.
`
`22· · · · · · THE WITNESS:· It is a type of network layer
`
`23· ·header, yes.
`
`24· ·BY MR. STEPHENS:
`
`25· · · · Q.· And TCP, or transport control protocol --
`
`Ex.1077.018
`
`DELL
`
`
`
`·1· ·excuse me -- transmission control protocol --
`
`·2· · · · A.· Yes.
`
`·3· · · · Q.· -- TCP is an example of a transport layer
`
`·4· ·protocol; right?
`
`·5· · · · A.· Yes, that is an example.
`
`·6· · · · Q.· And TCP packets have headers which are
`
`·7· ·transport layer headers; right?
`
`·8· · · · A.· Yes.
`
`·9· · · · Q.· And a media access control header would
`
`10· ·refer to something like an ethernet frame header;
`
`11· ·correct?
`
`12· · · · · · MS. CLARK:· Object to form.
`
`13· · · · · · THE WITNESS:· Ethernet packet header is a
`
`14· ·type of media access control -- media access control
`
`15· ·layer header.
`
`16· ·BY MR. STEPHENS:
`
`17· · · · Q.· Okay.· Now, in 1997 -- Well, let me back up
`
`18· ·a second.· I think you've identified the invention
`
`19· ·dates for the various claims at issue in your
`
`20· ·opening declaration.· Right?
`
`21· · · · A.· Yes, to find the priority dates for
`
`22· ·different claims.
`
`23· · · · Q.· Now, did you make an assessment of that
`
`24· ·invention date yourself?
`
`25· · · · A.· No.· That was given to me as a summation of
`
`Ex.1077.019
`
`DELL
`
`
`
`·1· ·fact.
`
`·2· · · · Q.· So Alacritech lawyers said, Please assume
`
`·3· ·these are the correct invention dates?
`
`·4· · · · · · MS. CLARK:· Object to form.
`
`·5· · · · · · Also caution the witness not to reveal the
`
`·6· ·contents of attorney-client privilege.· But to the
`
`·7· ·extent you can answer without doing so, you can.
`
`·8· · · · · · THE WITNESS:· Yes, I have not done
`
`·9· ·independent assessment of those invention dates, as
`
`10· ·you have referred to.· I have assumed those dates to
`
`11· ·be correct.
`
`12· ·BY MR. STEPHENS:
`
`13· · · · Q.· Okay.· Now, in 1997 TCP/IP protocol stacks
`
`14· ·were common; right?
`
`15· · · · · · MS. CLARK:· Object to form.· What?
`
`16· · · · · · THE WITNESS:· TCP and IP protocols I would
`
`17· ·like to use -- instead of a "stack," I would use the
`
`18· ·word TCP and IP protocols were commonly used.
`
`19· ·BY MR. STEPHENS:
`
`20· · · · Q.· And they were commonly implemented using a
`
`21· ·protocol stack running on a host computer; right?
`
`22· · · · · · MS. CLARK:· Object to form.
`
`23· · · · · · THE WITNESS:· Yes, many host computers had
`
`24· ·TCP and IP protocols implemented as a part of their
`
`25· ·systems software.
`
`Ex.1077.020
`
`DELL
`
`
`
`·1· ·BY MR. STEPHENS:
`
`·2· · · · Q.· Okay.· And those protocol stacks running on
`
`·3· ·host computers would provide the appropriate headers
`
`·4· ·for the transport layer packet and the network layer
`
`·5· ·packet and the MAC layer packet; right?
`
`·6· · · · · · MS. CLARK:· Object to form.
`
`·7· · · · · · THE WITNESS:· So just to be clear:· Outside
`
`·8· ·of the Alacritech invention, many implementation of
`
`·9· ·TCP/IP protocols in host computers were doing -- you
`
`10· ·know, generating headers for TCP layer protocol and
`
`11· ·IP layer protocols.· And many, if not most, during
`
`12· ·the part of 1990s, and 1997 in particular, and the
`
`13· ·host computers were performing those functions.
`
`14· ·BY MR. STEPHENS:
`
`15· · · · Q.· Okay.· So just to be clear, then, there
`
`16· ·were many protocol stacks around before Alacritech's
`
`17· ·invention that ran on host computers and that
`
`18· ·generated TCP headers, IP headers, and MAC headers;
`
`19· ·correct?
`
`20· · · · · · MS. CLARK:· Object to form, outside the
`
`21· ·scope.
`
`22· · · · · · THE WITNESS:· So I will go TCP header and
`
`23· ·IP header as a part of host computers.· MAC is
`
`24· ·somewhat different in the sense that many
`
`25· ·implementation there were in hardware form.· So I
`
`Ex.1077.021
`
`DELL
`
`
`
`·1· ·just make that distinction among those three layers.
`
`·2· · · · · · So host computers per se would not
`
`·3· ·particularly be involved in generation of a, say,
`
`·4· ·MAC header.· Many times those were -- that function
`
`·5· ·was performed as a part of a network interface card,
`
`·6· ·perhaps.
`
`·7· ·BY MR. STEPHENS:
`
`·8· · · · Q.· And that depended on the particular network
`
`·9· ·card; right?
`
`10· · · · · · MS. CLARK:· Object to form.
`
`11· ·BY MR. STEPHENS:
`
`12· · · · Q.· And the driver for it?
`
`13· · · · · · MS. CLARK:· Same objections.
`
`14· · · · · · THE WITNESS:· Yes, generally I think what
`
`15· ·you're saying is correct.· You know, host computers
`
`16· ·would have certain network interface card -- so
`
`17· ·we're talking about in generality once again, not
`
`18· ·specifically tied to the invention -- would have,
`
`19· ·you know, certain layer 2 header generating
`
`20· ·capability right at the interface.
`
`21· ·BY MR. STEPHENS:
`
`22· · · · Q.· And is layer 2 sometimes referred to as the
`
`23· ·data link layer in the OSI model?
`
`24· · · · · · MS. CLARK:· Object to form.
`
`25· · · · · · THE WITNESS:· So I've heard use of that
`
`Ex.1077.022
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`DELL
`
`
`
`·1· ·terminology, the data link layer, differently.· Some
`
`·2· ·people would refer data link control as layer 2 and
`
`·3· ·have MAC layer as a part of that; and others would
`
`·4· ·say data link layer and MAC layer is two different
`
`·5· ·layers in layer 2.· So data link layer in my
`
`·6· ·terminology is not synonymous to layer 2.
`
`·7· ·BY MR. STEPHENS:
`
`·8· · · · Q.· Okay.· But layer 2 is the MAC layer; right?
`
`·9· · · · · · MS. CLARK:· Object to form.
`
`10· · · · · · THE WITNESS:· That too is incorrect
`
`11· ·statement in the sense that MAC layer is part of
`
`12· ·layer 2.
`
`13· ·BY MR. STEPHENS:
`
`14· · · · Q.· Okay.· Well, let's go back to TCP/IP and
`
`15· ·not talk about OSI layer numbers for a moment.
`
`16· · · · · · There were many inexpensive ethernet
`
`17· ·interface cards available before Alacritech made its
`
`18· ·invention for which the host protocol stack would
`
`19· ·generate the MAC layer headers; right?
`
`20· · · · · · MS. CLARK:· Object to form, outside the
`
`21· ·scope.
`
`22· · · · · · THE WITNESS:· Did you say "many"?
`
`23· ·BY MR. STEPHENS:
`
`24· · · · Q.· Yes.
`
`25· · · · A.· I could not attest to that.· There may have
`
`Ex.1077.023
`
`DELL
`
`
`
`·1· ·been the implementation as you describe.· I think it
`
`·2· ·was more common for the -- in general terms, not
`
`·3· ·tied to -- I'm not testifying specifically with
`
`·4· ·respect to Alacritech's net interface device right
`
`·5· ·now.· But in general terms, the MAC header
`
`·6· ·generation was more part of the interface card than
`
`·7· ·the host protocol stack.
`
`·8· · · · Q.· Okay.· But there certainly were
`
`·9· ·implementations that people in the field knew about
`
`10· ·at the time in which the MAC layer headers were also
`
`11· ·generated by the host compute computer; right?
`
`12· · · · · · MS. CLARK:· Object to form.
`
`13· · · · · · THE WITNESS:· I really cannot recall a
`
`14· ·particular instance.
`
`15· ·BY MR. STEPHENS:
`
`16· · · · Q.· Okay.· You just don't know one way or
`
`17· ·another?
`
`18· · · · · · MS. CLARK:· Object to form.
`
`19· · · · · · THE WITNESS:· To me it's not logical in the
`
`20· ·sense that the first two layers, the physical layer
`
`21· ·and the layer 2, you know, which include the MAC
`
`22· ·layer, it was a function performed for the most part
`
`23· ·by hardware.· And as you have alluded, those devices
`
`24· ·were pretty inexpensive.· And it's more logical to
`
`25· ·me that the hardware will perform as opposed to the
`
`Ex.1077.024
`
`DELL
`
`
`
`·1· ·host protocol stack.
`
`·2· ·BY MR. STEPHENS:
`
`·3· · · · Q.· Okay.· But you're not testifying under oath
`
`·4· ·here today for the court in Texas that there were no
`
`·5· ·host computers that generated MAC headers in
`
`·6· ·conjunction with TCP/IP protocol stacks before
`
`·7· ·Alacritech came up with its invention; right?
`
`·8· · · · · · MS. CLARK:· Object to form.
`
`·9· · · · · · THE WITNESS:· What I am saying is, I'm not
`
`10· ·aware of any such implementation.
`
`11· ·BY MR. STEPHENS:
`
`12· · · · Q.· Okay.· But you can't say that there were
`
`13· ·none; right?
`
`14· · · · · · MS. CLARK:· Object to form.
`
`15· · · · · · THE WITNESS:· I think it's reasonable that
`
`16· ·I'm not definitively able to conclude that there
`
`17· ·were no such implementation.
`
`18· ·BY MR. STEPHENS:
`
`19· · · · Q.· Okay.· Did you look at the C3509 datasheet
`
`20· ·that Mr. Lanning provided with his declaration?
`
`21· · · · A.· That's the Broadcom chip?
`
`22· · · · Q.· That was a 3com chip.
`
`23· · · · · · MS. CLARK:· Object to form.
`
`24· · · · · · THE WITNESS:· Yes, I have taken a look at
`
`25· ·it.
`
`Ex.1077.025
`
`DELL
`
`
`
`·1· ·BY MR. STEPHENS:
`
`·2· · · · Q.· Do you know if it generated MAC headers?
`
`·3· · · · · · MS. CLARK:· Object to form.
`
`·4· · · · · · THE WITNESS:· May I take a look at it?
`
`·5· · · · · · MR. STEPHENS:· No, I don't really want to
`
`·6· ·go off on a sidetrack.· You just don't know one way
`
`·7· ·or another without checking the datasheet?
`
`·8· · · · · · THE WITNESS:· I do not recall.
`
`·9· ·BY MR. STEPHENS:
`
`10· · · · Q.· Okay.· Fair enough.
`
`11· · · · · · Now, are you aware of any protocol stacks
`
`12· ·that did TCP/IP header generation for transmission
`
`13· ·that also generated an interrupt between the
`
`14· ·generation of the network layer and the transport
`
`15· ·layer when it was creating TCP/IP packets for
`
`16· ·transmission?
`
`17· · · · · · MS. CLARK:· Object to form.
`
`18· · · · · · THE WITNESS:· Do I know that?
`
`19· ·BY MR. STEPHENS:
`
`20· · · · Q.· Yeah.
`
`21· · · · A.· Of course, yes.
`
`22· · · · Q.· Okay.· Which protocol stacks did that?
`
`23· · · · A.· This is really not a particular
`
`24· ·implementation per se.· The way that this OSI
`
`25· ·seven-layer stack works --
`
`Ex.1077.026
`
`DELL
`
`
`
`·1· · · · Q.· I'm not asking about OSI, sir.· I'm asking
`
`·2· ·about TCP/IP.
`
`·3· · · · · · MS. CLARK:· Let the witness finish his
`
`·4· ·response, please.
`
`·5· · · · · · MR. STEPHENS:· Please don't coach the
`
`·6· ·witness or tell me how to ask my questions.
`
`·7· · · · · · MS. CLARK:· Don't interrupt my witness and
`
`·8· ·I won't.
`
`·9· · · · · · MR. STEPHENS:· I will interrupt your
`
`10· ·witness if I want to.
`
`11· · · · · · THE WITNESS:· Is that the same interrupt
`
`12· ·we're talking about, two different interrupts?
`
`13· · · · · · MR. STEPHENS:· That's right.
`
`14· · · · · · THE WITNESS:· Which interrupt are we
`
`15· ·talking about here?
`
`16· ·BY MR. STEPHENS:
`
`17· · · · Q.· Go ahead, sir.
`
`18· · · · A.· I was actually getting to your point.· The
`
`19· ·reason why the OSI is seven layers is because the
`
`20· ·communication between layers is through socket.· So
`
`21· ·you deliver certain request onto that socket, which
`
`22· ·is a destination between layer, and that generates
`
`23· ·interrupt.· So whenever, say like you are host, you
`
`24· ·want to transmit data.· You bring down from the
`
`25· ·application, say go down to session and then go to
`
`Ex.1077.027
`
`DELL
`
`
`
`·1· ·transport TCP, transmission layer, transport layer.
`
`·2· ·And then from there delivering the segment data that
`
`·3· ·TCP layer generates to IP.· That process itself is
`
`·4· ·calling deliver that request, the request of a
`
`·5· ·service, and that is an interrupt.· And that's how
`
`·6· ·the entirety of OSI seven-layer structure was
`
`·7· ·defined.
`
`·8· ·BY MR. STEPHENS:
`
`·9· · · · Q.· Okay.· But, again, I'm not asking about the
`
`10· ·OSI structure.· I'm asking about specific actual
`
`11· ·working TCP/IP implementations.
`
`12· · · · · · MS. CLARK:· Object to form.
`
`13· · · · · · THE WITNESS:· That was exactly my answer.
`
`14· ·TCP layer 4 delivering its TCP packet to IP, that
`
`15· ·itself requires interrupt to the IP layer -- to the
`
`16· ·IP layer to provide a service of network layer.
`
`17· ·That process is interrupt.
`
`18· ·BY MR. STEPHENS:
`
`19· · · · Q.· That's an interrupt to the host processor?
`
`20· · · · · · MS. CLARK:· Object to form.
`
`21· ·BY MR. STEPHENS:
`
`22· · · · Q.· An electrical signal to the interrupt
`
`23· ·request line in the host processor?
`
`24· · · · · · MS. CLARK:· Object to form.
`
`25· · · · · · THE WITNESS:· Not interrupt line per se.
`
`Ex.1077.028
`
`DELL
`
`
`
`·1· ·It is an interrupt --
`
`·2· ·BY MR. STEPHENS:
`
`·3· · · · Q.· It's just a function call -- I'm sorry.· Go
`
`·4· ·ahead, finish your answer.
`
`·5· · · · A.· It's more than that.· Because a function
`
`·6· ·call assumes that it is part of the same software.
`
`·7· ·And when one part of a program calls a function
`
`·8· ·reside within the same software, that's a function
`
`·9· ·call.· But the layer structure of OSI is defined
`
`10· ·such that these are two separate software.
`
`11· · · · Q.· Again, sir, I'm not asking about OSI.· I'm
`
`12· ·asking about TCP/IP working protocol stacks.
`
`13· · · · · · You haven't identified a single one that
`
`14· ·used an interrupt between the transport layer and IP
`
`15· ·layer header generation, have
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