WILLIAM EASTTOM 10/12/2018WILLIAM EASTTOM 10/12/2018
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`WILLIAM EASTTOM 10/12/2018WILLIAM EASTTOM 10/12/2018
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` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADMARK OFFICE
`
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
` APPLE INC.,
`
` Petitioner
`
` v.
`
` UNILOC LUXEMBOURG S.A.
`
` Patent Owner.
`
` ________________________________________________________
`
` ORAL DEPOSITION OF
`
` WILLIAM EASTTOM
`
` October 12, 2018
`
` ________________________________________________________
`
` Case No. IPR2018-00294
`
` U.S. Patent No. 6,736,759
`
` ORAL DEPOSITION of WILLIAM EASTTOM, produced as a
`
` witness at the instance of the Petioner, and duly sworn,
`
` was taken in the above-styled and -numbered cause on the
`
` 12th day of October, 2018, from 9:32 a.m. to 11:56 a.m.,
`
` before Terralyn J. Gentry, Certified Shorthand Reporter
`
` in and for the State of Texas, reported by machine
`
` shorthand, at SpringHill Suites Dallas Rockwall, 2601
`
` Lakefront Trail, Rockwall, Texas 75032.
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`ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
`
`ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
`
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376
`
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376
`
`
`Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334
`
`Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334
`
`IPR2018-00294
`Apple Inc. EX1027 Page 1
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`
`
`
`WILLIAM EASTTOM 10/12/2018WILLIAM EASTTOM 10/12/2018
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`Page 1Page 1
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`Page 1Page 1
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` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADMARK OFFICE
`
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
` APPLE INC.,
`
` Petitioner
`
` v.
`
` UNILOC LUXEMBOURG S.A.
`
` Patent Owner.
`
` ________________________________________________________
`
` ORAL DEPOSITION OF
`
` WILLIAM EASTTOM
`
` October 12, 2018
`
` ________________________________________________________
`
` Case No. IPR2018-00294
`
` U.S. Patent No. 6,736,759
`
` ORAL DEPOSITION of WILLIAM EASTTOM, produced as a
`
` witness at the instance of the Petioner, and duly sworn,
`
` was taken in the above-styled and -numbered cause on the
`
` 12th day of October, 2018, from 9:32 a.m. to 11:56 a.m.,
`
` before Terralyn J. Gentry, Certified Shorthand Reporter
`
` in and for the State of Texas, reported by machine
`
` shorthand, at SpringHill Suites Dallas Rockwall, 2601
`
` Lakefront Trail, Rockwall, Texas 75032.
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`www.alaris.uswww.alaris.us
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`ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
`
`ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
`
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376
`
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376
`
`
`Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334
`
`Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334
`
`IPR2018-00294
`Apple Inc. EX1027 Page 1
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`WILLIAM EASTTOM 10/12/2018WILLIAM EASTTOM 10/12/2018
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`WILLIAM EASTTOM 10/12/2018WILLIAM EASTTOM 10/12/2018
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`Page 2Page 2
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`Page 2Page 2
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` A P P E A R A N C E S
`
` FOR THE PETIONER:
`
` Mr. Adam P. Seitz
` Mr. Chris R. Schmidt
` ERISE IP
` 7015 College Boulevard, Suite 700
` Overland Park, Kansas 66211
` Telephone: (913) 777-5600
` Facsimile: (913) 777-5601
` E-mail: adam.seitz@eriseIP.com
` E-mail: chris.schmidt@eriseIP.com
`
` FOR THE PATENT OWNER:
`
` Mr. Brett Mangrum
` ETHERIDGE LAW GROUP
` 2600 East Southlake Boulevard, Suite 120/324
` Southlake, Texas 76092
` Telephone: (817) 470-7249
` Facsimile: (817) 887-5950
` E-mail: brett@etheridgelaw.com
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`www.alaris.uswww.alaris.us
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`ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
`
`ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
`
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376
`
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376
`
`
`Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334
`
`Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334
`
`IPR2018-00294
`Apple Inc. EX1027 Page 2
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`WILLIAM EASTTOM 10/12/2018WILLIAM EASTTOM 10/12/2018
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`WILLIAM EASTTOM 10/12/2018WILLIAM EASTTOM 10/12/2018
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`Page 3Page 3
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`Page 3Page 3
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` I N D E X
` PAGE
` APPEARANCES 2
`
` WILLIAM EASTTOM
`
` EXAMINATION BY MR. SEITZ 4
`
` EXAMINATION BY MR. MANGRUM 91
`
` EXAMINATION BY MR. SEITZ 93
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` REPORTER'S CERTIFICATE 95
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` ERRATA SHEET 96
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`ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
`
`ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
`
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376
`
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376
`
`
`Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334
`
`Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334
`
`IPR2018-00294
`Apple Inc. EX1027 Page 3
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`WILLIAM EASTTOM 10/12/2018WILLIAM EASTTOM 10/12/2018
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` WILLIAM EASTTOM,
`
` having been first duly sworn, testified as follows:
`
` EXAMINATION
`
` BY MR. SEITZ:
`
` Q. Dr. Easttom, good morning.
`
` A. Good morning.
`
` Q. Would you please state your name for the
`
` record.
`
` A. Williams Charles Easttom, II.
`
` Q. And I see reference to a Chuck Easttom. Do you
`
` go by "Chuck" sometimes?
`
` A. It's short for my middle name. It's what my
`
` parents started calling me when I was a child.
`
` Q. Thank you, sir. I have just a couple of things
`
` I want to cover with you today for how I would like to
`
` conduct this deposition.
`
` First, I want to make sure you understand
`
` you're under oath.
`
` A. Yes, I do.
`
` Q. And then, second, if you answer my question,
`
` I'm going to assume that you understand it; is that a
`
` fair approach today?
`
` A. Well, I can't tell you in advance what I'm
`
` going to understand or what I'm not.
`
` Q. But if you answer the question without asking
`
`
`www.alaris.uswww.alaris.us
`
`www.alaris.uswww.alaris.us
`
`
`ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
`
`ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
`
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376
`
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376
`
`
`Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334
`
`Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334
`
`IPR2018-00294
`Apple Inc. EX1027 Page 4
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` me to clarify, I'm going to assume that you understood
`
` my question; is that fair?
`
` A. I can't answer that at this point until we get
`
` into the questions. I will try to bear in mind to ask
`
` for clarification if there's any doubt, but I can
`
` envision a possibility where I thought I understood you,
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` but it later turns out I did not.
`
` Q. Okay. So sitting here today, there's no
`
` assurance that you can give me that any question you
`
` answer would be something that you understood then; is
`
` that right?
`
` A. No, that's not what I'm saying.
`
` MR. MANGRUM: Objection.
`
` Q. So help me understand what you're saying.
`
` A. I have never met you before. I have no idea
`
` how clear you are in your questions or how ambiguous, so
`
` I can't possibly know if your questions will be clear or
`
` not.
`
` Q. All right.
`
` MR. MANGRUM: Counsel, real quick, do you
`
` want to do announcements?
`
` MR. SEITZ: We probably should do that,
`
` shouldn't we?
`
` MR. MANGRUM: I didn't mean to throw you
`
` off. Generally, at the beginning --
`
`
`www.alaris.uswww.alaris.us
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`www.alaris.uswww.alaris.us
`
`
`ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
`
`ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
`
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376
`
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376
`
`
`Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334
`
`Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334
`
`IPR2018-00294
`Apple Inc. EX1027 Page 5
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` MR. SEITZ: We didn't say anything, and it
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` just totally slipped my mind. Adam Seitz for Petitioner
`
` Apple. Also with me is Chris Schmidt from my law firm.
`
` MR. MANGRUM: And this is Brett Mangrum
`
` speaking now, and I will be defending the deposition.
`
` I'm with the Etheridge Law Group representing the Uniloc
`
` entities.
`
` MR. SEITZ: Thank you for the reminder.
`
` Could we go off the record real quick?
`
` (Brief discussion off the record.)
`
` Q. (BY MR. SEITZ) Dr. Easttom, let me ask it this
`
` way: If you are confused by any of my questions, would
`
` you please ask for clarification?
`
` A. Absolutely.
`
` Q. Okay. Sir, how long have you been working with
`
` Uniloc?
`
` MR. MANGRUM: Objection, form.
`
` A. Well, I first did a little work for them back
`
` in 2011, then didn't for many years, and then they
`
` approached me again in I think December of 2016.
`
` Q. And approximately how many cases have you
`
` worked on since 2016?
`
` MR. MANGRUM: Objection, form.
`
` A. There's been quite a few. I don't know. Many
`
` of them have been IPRs like this. A few have been
`
`
`www.alaris.uswww.alaris.us
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`www.alaris.uswww.alaris.us
`
`
`ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
`
`ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
`
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376
`
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376
`
`
`Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334
`
`Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334
`
`IPR2018-00294
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`WILLIAM EASTTOM 10/12/2018WILLIAM EASTTOM 10/12/2018
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` simply consulting doing code review with no testifying
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` or performing of reports. It's been more than a dozen.
`
` I couldn't tell you exactly how many.
`
` Q. Okay. And in front of you is a folder
`
` containing various exhibits that we may refer to today
`
` from the IPR petition, including Exhibit 2001 at the
`
` very end, which is a copy of your declaration. And I'd
`
` ask that you take a quick look at that and make sure
`
` that it appears to be complete and accurate.
`
` A. Aside from additions to the CV at the end, it
`
` appears to be accurate.
`
` Q. Okay. Approximately how much time did you
`
` spend preparing this declaration?
`
` MR. MANGRUM: Objection. And just before
`
` we go down too deep in the line of questions, this often
`
` comes up in the context. I will just cite the case
`
` Pevarello v. Land, and, Counsel, any attempt to inquire
`
` on cross-examination as to how direct testimony
`
` declarations came to be prepared -- I'm quoting directly
`
` from that case -- it's actually off limits. And so I'd
`
` counsel you just respond in view of that, but also let
`
` you know that we have a standing objection to ask
`
` questions about how cross testimony -- sorry, direct
`
` testimony can be prepared on cross, if that makes sense.
`
` And just to put that case in the record,
`
`
`www.alaris.uswww.alaris.us
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`www.alaris.uswww.alaris.us
`
`
`ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
`
`ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
`
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376
`
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376
`
`
`Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334
`
`Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334
`
`IPR2018-00294
`Apple Inc. EX1027 Page 7
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`WILLIAM EASTTOM 10/12/2018WILLIAM EASTTOM 10/12/2018
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` it's P-E-V-A-R-E-L-L-O v. Land.
`
` Q. Do you recall my question, sir?
`
` A. Can you repeat it?
`
` Q. Yes, I can. How much time did you spend
`
` preparing the declaration at Exhibit 2001?
`
` MR. MANGRUM: Again, same objection.
`
` That's a question of how direct testimony came to be
`
` prepared. Off limits.
`
` MR. SEITZ: Just the amount of time?
`
` MR. MANGRUM: I'm quoting from the case.
`
` MR. SEITZ: Okay. So your instruction is
`
` not to answer?
`
` MR. MANGRUM: Yes.
`
` MR. SEITZ: Okay.
`
` Q. Sir, I want to talk about your background.
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. Can you tell me what experience you have
`
` relating to physiological monitoring?
`
` A. Well, I think the first time I encountered
`
` anything like that would have been somewhere in the mid
`
` '90s and that was working with a professor at a
`
` university. He was developing his own lie detector
`
` test, and we were developing sensors, of course, to pick
`
` up heart rate and breathing and things of that nature.
`
` Throughout the years since then, I've worked with a few
`
`
`www.alaris.uswww.alaris.us
`
`www.alaris.uswww.alaris.us
`
`
`ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
`
`ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
`
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376
`
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376
`
`
`Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334
`
`Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334
`
`IPR2018-00294
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` of the mobile phone apps that would do similar things.
`
` Also, by the way, when I mentioned amending
`
` my CV, I have also been working simultaneously on a
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` third master's in systems engineering. It will be
`
` completed in the spring and as recently as last
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` semester, I did an entire project on implantable medical
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` devices. So off and on, I mean, it's not what I do
`
` every single day, but spanning from about '94 to as
`
` recently as a couple of months ago.
`
` Q. You mentioned lie detector already. What was
`
` your involvement there, sir?
`
` A. Well, actually, pretty much setting
`
` everything -- building it, setting up all the sensors.
`
` The professor in question was a psychology professor who
`
` had virtually no technical skills whatsoever. He just
`
` had a very good idea.
`
` Q. Okay. And then tell me about the mobile phone
`
` apps that you referenced.
`
` A. Well, I've never worked solely as the sole
`
` developer of an app you'd find in the app store. I have
`
` worked with students teaching them to create apps and
`
` helping them on programming parts and I've also created
`
` a few apps that are not public domain.
`
` Q. Okay. And which of those involve some sort of
`
` physiological monitoring?
`
`
`www.alaris.uswww.alaris.us
`
`www.alaris.uswww.alaris.us
`
`
`ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
`
`ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
`
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376
`
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376
`
`
`Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334
`
`Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334
`
`IPR2018-00294
`Apple Inc. EX1027 Page 9
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`WILLIAM EASTTOM 10/12/2018WILLIAM EASTTOM 10/12/2018
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`WILLIAM EASTTOM 10/12/2018WILLIAM EASTTOM 10/12/2018
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`Page 10Page 10
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` MR. MANGRUM: Objection, form, foundation.
`
` A. Probably four of them that had some form. And
`
` usually, the most common in those cases is going to be
`
` heart rate, breathing, something of that nature.
`
` Q. And what was your involvement with the
`
` physiological side of those, the heart rate or the
`
` breathing?
`
` A. In I think every case, as best as I can recall,
`
` it was getting that part to work. I didn't do the GUI
`
` part of the app and the cool, whiz-bang stuff that
`
` people like to see. I worked on the part that actually
`
` got the signal from whatever add-on device you might
`
` have.
`
` Q. And then you mentioned, I believe it was, a
`
` class last semester or last year? I may be
`
` misunderstanding.
`
` A. Last semester, I was doing a project in the
`
` systems engineering program, and it was completely
`
` designing, from scratch, implantable medical devices.
`
` Now, I don't know if you're aware of this, but the FDA
`
` recently listed several of these devices being insecure.
`
` So the focus of my research there, although I had to
`
` look at the entire system, was to look at ways to make
`
` them secure so that you can't -- you can literally hack
`
` into someone's pacemaker, and my focus was on finding
`
`
`www.alaris.uswww.alaris.us
`
`www.alaris.uswww.alaris.us
`
`
`ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
`
`ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
`
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376
`
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376
`
`
`Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334
`
`Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334
`
`IPR2018-00294
`Apple Inc. EX1027 Page 10
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`
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`WILLIAM EASTTOM 10/12/2018WILLIAM EASTTOM 10/12/2018
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`WILLIAM EASTTOM 10/12/2018WILLIAM EASTTOM 10/12/2018
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`Page 11Page 11
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` ways to mitigate that threat. However, that required me
`
` to fully examine and understand a host of commercially
`
` available systems, reviewing their engineering
`
` documents, diagrams, circuitry, that sort of thing.
`
` Q. Okay. And what experience do you have with
`
` exercise monitoring devices?
`
` MR. MANGRUM: Objection, form, foundation.
`
` A. Well, I worked on helping, as we mentioned, the
`
` apps to get heart rate and breathing. I don't know how
`
` it was applied. It might have been applied for
`
` exercise. It might have been applied just to check your
`
` pulse. I don't know.
`
` Q. Okay. Any other exercise monitoring systems or
`
` devices that you've worked on?
`
` A. No.
`
` MR. MANGRUM: Same objection.
`
` Q. I want to make sure that there's not a
`
` confusion about my language. How about just broadly,
`
` fitness systems, have you worked on any fitness systems
`
` before?
`
` MR. MANGRUM: Objection, form, foundation.
`
` Q. That we haven't previously discussed.
`
` MR. MANGRUM: Same objection.
`
` A. No.
`
` Q. If you look at your exhibit in front of you on
`
`
`www.alaris.uswww.alaris.us
`
`www.alaris.uswww.alaris.us
`
`
`ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
`
`ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
`
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376
`
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376
`
`
`Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334
`
`Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334
`
`IPR2018-00294
`Apple Inc. EX1027 Page 11
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`
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`WILLIAM EASTTOM 10/12/2018WILLIAM EASTTOM 10/12/2018
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`WILLIAM EASTTOM 10/12/2018WILLIAM EASTTOM 10/12/2018
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`Page 12Page 12
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` 2001, paragraph 13 and 14 -- 13, mainly.
`
` A. I have it in front of me.
`
` Q. Paragraph 13 references the ordinary skill in
`
` the art standard; do you see that?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. And at the end of this, which bleeds over onto
`
` page 6, it says: Two years of experience related to
`
` mobile devices and/or physiological monitoring.
`
` Do you see that?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. Okay. Can you tell me when you say
`
` physiological monitoring, what that would encompass?
`
` MR. MANGRUM: Objection, form and
`
` foundation.
`
` A. Well, that's an incredibly broad area. Part of
`
` it would include heart rate monitoring, pulse ox, that
`
` sort of thing. Now there's a subset of that that gets
`
` far more complicated that would not be part of one of
`
` ordinary skill in the art, and that's explicit
`
` biomedical engineering, which requires an entire extra
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` set of skills that wouldn't be one of ordinary skill in
`
` the art as defined by myself or by Dr. Fyfe.
`
` Q. Is physiological monitoring broader than
`
` exercise monitoring?
`
` MR. MANGRUM: Objection, form and
`
`
`www.alaris.uswww.alaris.us
`
`www.alaris.uswww.alaris.us
`
`
`ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
`
`ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
`
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376
`
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376
`
`
`Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334
`
`Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334
`
`IPR2018-00294
`Apple Inc. EX1027 Page 12
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`
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`WILLIAM EASTTOM 10/12/2018WILLIAM EASTTOM 10/12/2018
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`WILLIAM EASTTOM 10/12/2018WILLIAM EASTTOM 10/12/2018
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`Page 13Page 13
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` foundation.
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` A. Yes, and allow me to use an analogy. If we
`
` said -- say this were a totally different matter and we
`
` said one needed two years of experience in biology, but
`
` then there's a subset of biology that is genetics. A
`
` general biologist may have very limited knowledge of the
`
` details of genetics, as far as, like, actual
`
` bioengineering, so the same thing happens here.
`
` Physiological monitoring is a broad spectrum of things
`
` and the details -- there's certain areas of it that get
`
` much more complicated that require much more education
`
` and training than either I or Dr. Fyfe will find was one
`
` of ordinary skill in the art.
`
` Q. Let me refer you to Dr. Fyfe's definition, just
`
` so we're clear on what he says.
`
` A. Of course.
`
` Q. That's Exhibit 1002, paragraph 30.
`
` A. I have it in front of me.
`
` Q. So looking at paragraph 30 about four lines
`
` down, we have: Two years of experience in exercise
`
` monitoring device design.
`
` Do you see that?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. So do you believe that exercise monitoring is
`
` too narrow?
`
`
`www.alaris.uswww.alaris.us
`
`www.alaris.uswww.alaris.us
`
`
`ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
`
`ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
`
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376
`
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376
`
`
`Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334
`
`Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334
`
`IPR2018-00294
`Apple Inc. EX1027 Page 13
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`
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`WILLIAM EASTTOM 10/12/2018WILLIAM EASTTOM 10/12/2018
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`WILLIAM EASTTOM 10/12/2018WILLIAM EASTTOM 10/12/2018
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`Page 14Page 14
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` A. There's a couple of things I disagree with on
`
` Dr. Fyfe's definition here. The first is, yes, to
`
` answer your question. It's a little too narrow because
`
` having experience in a very, very similar area, a more
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` broader area might be sufficient, depending on the
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` specific art we're talking about. I would also disagree
`
` that a degree in mechanical engineering is relevant.
`
` This is all about computing devices and electronics and
`
` programming. Mechanical engineering, to give an
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` analogy, would be the physical design of your laptop,
`
` how the hinge turns, which is not the issues at question
`
` in this case, and I have no idea why he put in
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` mechanical engineering.
`
` Now, some of the other things he said, a
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` bachelor's degree, intellectual engineering, or similar
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` field, two years of experience in general computing
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` systems, motion tracking; I don't have a big
`
` disagreement with those. I notice he didn't mention
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` mobile devices and one of the reasons I do is once you
`
` understand mobile devices fairly well, then any
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` modification to those would probably fall within your
`
` scope of understanding. So we have a few differences,
`
` but even if we apply Dr. Fyfe's definition in its
`
` entirety, it wouldn't change my opinions.
`
` Q. And physiological monitoring may not include
`
`
`www.alaris.uswww.alaris.us
`
`www.alaris.uswww.alaris.us
`
`
`ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
`
`ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
`
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376
`
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376
`
`
`Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334
`
`Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334
`
`IPR2018-00294
`Apple Inc. EX1027 Page 14
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`
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`WILLIAM EASTTOM 10/12/2018WILLIAM EASTTOM 10/12/2018
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`
`WILLIAM EASTTOM 10/12/2018WILLIAM EASTTOM 10/12/2018
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` exercise monitoring as well; is that correct?
`
` A. No, that's not correct. It would include
`
` exercise monitoring.
`
` Q. In all situations?
`
` A. Well, again, we're back to the subset. It's a
`
` broad spectrum, and exercise monitoring is one subset.
`
` Now, is it possible that a person might have had
`
` experience in physiological monitoring but not
`
` specifically in exercise, yes, it's possible. However,
`
` my understanding and my belief is that with that broad
`
` understanding, they would certainly understand exercise
`
` monitoring.
`
` Put another way, going back to your earlier
`
` question, if you understand how to capture someone's
`
` heart rate, it really doesn't matter what it's being
`
` applied to. You're capturing heart rate. How that
`
` information is used will be irrelevant to your
`
` understanding.
`
` Q. Do you have an understanding as to whether the
`
` claims of the 759 patent are directed towards an
`
` exercise monitoring system or a physiological monitoring
`
` system?
`
` MR. MANGRUM: Objection, form and
`
` foundation.
`
` A. Well, the best answer there would be to simply
`
`
`www.alaris.uswww.alaris.us
`
`www.alaris.uswww.alaris.us
`
`
`ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
`
`ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
`
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376
`
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376
`
`
`Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334
`
`Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334
`
`IPR2018-00294
`Apple Inc. EX1027 Page 15
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`
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`WILLIAM EASTTOM 10/12/2018WILLIAM EASTTOM 10/12/2018
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`
`WILLIAM EASTTOM 10/12/2018WILLIAM EASTTOM 10/12/2018
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` turn to the 759 patent which you've been kind enough to
`
` supply me, I believe, as Exhibit 1001.
`
` Q. Yes. Thank you.
`
` A. And the very first claim says what is claimed
`
` is an exercise monitoring system, comprising -- and then
`
` it goes forward. But the answer to your question is
`
` right there in Claim 1.
`
` Q. Which is an exercise monitoring system?
`
` A. That's correct. And that's stated again in
`
` Claim 2 and it may be a few other claims. Now, I
`
` believe the inventor of the 759 patent used the two
`
` terms interchangeably because in Claim 7, it states: The
`
` system of Claim 6, wherein the GPS device and said
`
` physiological monitor are removably secured to said
`
` support member. So the inventor of the 759 appears to
`
` use the two terms interchangeably, and in the context of
`
` this patent, they can be used interchangeably. In
`
` general engineering usage, physiological monitoring is a
`
` broader topic and exercise is a subset. But for the
`
` 759, they appear to use them interchangeably.
`
` Q. When you were talking about Dr. Fyfe, you also
`
` mentioned mobile devices which was another component of
`
` your definition of ordinary skill?
`
` A. That's correct.
`
` Q. Are mobile devices broader than exercise
`
`
`www.alaris.uswww.alaris.us
`
`www.alaris.uswww.alaris.us
`
`
`ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
`
`ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
`
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376
`
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376
`
`
`Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334
`
`Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334
`
`IPR2018-00294
`Apple Inc. EX1027 Page 16
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`
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`WILLIAM EASTTOM 10/12/2018WILLIAM EASTTOM 10/12/2018
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`WILLIAM EASTTOM 10/12/2018WILLIAM EASTTOM 10/12/2018
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` systems?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. A mobile device does not have to be an exercise
`
` system; is that correct?
`
` A. Of course.
`
` Q. Can you tell me why you included mobile device
`
` in your definition?
`
` A. Well, one of the reasons is the big
`
` complication, when you look at, for example, the 759
`
` patent, when we look at these claims, a lot of it is
`
` about, for example, I'm reading from Claim 1: Wherein
`
` said display unit is configured to be worn by the
`
` subject.
`
` Now, looking at this in 2018, you may be
`
` thinking, big deal. If you look at this at the time of
`
` the filing, which it was 1999, that's a very big deal.
`
` And trying to understand how we take electronics and,
`
` first of all, make them small enough to wear, then make
`
` them stable, that was a big challenge. Someone who had
`
` conquered those challenges in mobile devices already
`
` would have a really good understanding of what the 759
`
` patent is talking about. And, again, if you read my
`
` full definition of a person of ordinary skill in the
`
` art, they have a relevant degree and two years of
`
` experience with either physiological monitoring and/or
`
`
`www.alaris.uswww.alaris.us
`
`www.alaris.uswww.alaris.us
`
`
`ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
`
`ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
`
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376
`
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376
`
`
`Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334
`
`Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334
`
`IPR2018-00294
`Apple Inc. EX1027 Page 17
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`
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`WILLIAM EASTTOM 10/12/2018WILLIAM EASTTOM 10/12/2018
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`WILLIAM EASTTOM 10/12/2018WILLIAM EASTTOM 10/12/2018
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`Page 18Page 18
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`Page 18Page 18
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` mobile devices. And if you put all that together, I
`
` believe such a person could understand the 759 patent.
`
` Q. Okay. Let's go back to your declaration,
`
` Exhibit 2001.
`
` A. I am there.
`
` Q. And, specifically, I'd like to refer you to
`
` paragraph 7, please, which is on page 4.
`
` A. I have it in front of me.
`
` Q. And that is the -- that paragraph discusses the
`
` definition of displaying real-time data. Do you see
`
` that?
`
` A. Yes, I do.
`
` Q. And then paragraph 7, it reads: The CAFC
`
` construed this term to mean displaying data without
`
` intentional delay, given the processing limitations of
`
` the system and the time required to accurately measure
`
` the data.
`
` Do you see that?
`
` A. Yes, I do.
`
` Q. Okay. My question, sir, is what your
`
` understanding of "without intentional delay" is.
`
` A. In any situation wherein there is any
`
` processing activity that wasn't absolutely necessary --
`
` because it does say, given the processing limitations of
`
` the system -- if it was impossible to avoid the delay, I
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`ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
`
`ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
`
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376
`
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376
`
`
`Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334
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`Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334
`
`IPR2018-00294
`Apple Inc. EX1027 Page 18
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`WILLIAM EASTTOM 10/12/2018WILLIAM EASTTOM 10/12/2018
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`WILLIAM EASTTOM 10/12/2018WILLIAM EASTTOM 10/12/2018
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` mean, literally impossible, then that would not be
`
` intentional delay. Any other delay is intentional,
`
` regardless of the time frame of the delay.
`
` Q. So if you were trying to calculate a distance
`
` and there's any other calculations that take place after
`
` the distance is calculated before you display that to a
`
` user, is that the intentional delay that you're talking
`
` about?
`
` MR. MANGRUM: Objection, form, foundation,
`
` and scope.
`
` A. Well, that's one example, but it goes even
`
` further than that. Let's say you're calculating
`
` distance in GPS on a hypothetical product, okay, and I
`
` have a screen here and I want to display your location
`
` and your speed. To do it without intentional delay, I
`
` need to first show the GPS you're at, then the GPS
`
` you're going to, with no delay, none at all, zero,
`
` immediately display them, and then the second,
`
` millisecond, or microsecond I have calculated the delta
`
` between those and have a velocity or acceleration, I
`
` need to immediately display that. So not only would
`
` other calculations be intentional delay, but withholding
`
` the display of the actual GPS coordinates until you've
`
` calculated speed would be intentional delay.
`
` Q. Can you turn with me to the 759 patent, please?
`
`
`www.alaris.uswww.alaris.us
`
`www.alaris.uswww.alaris.us
`
`
`ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
`
`ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
`
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376
`
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376
`
`
`Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334
`
`Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334
`
`IPR2018-00294
`Apple Inc. EX1027 Page 19
`
`
`
`WILLIAM EASTTOM 10/12/2018WILLIAM EASTTOM 10/12/2018
`
`
`WILLIAM EASTTOM 10/12/2018WILLIAM EASTTOM 10/12/2018
`
`
`Page 20Page 20
`
`Page 20Page 20
`
` A. Certainly. Wherein?
`
` Q. I'd like to look at Column 13, please.
`
` A. I have it in front of me.
`
` Q. An
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