·1· · · · · ·UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`· · · · · · ·BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
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`·3· ·ZTE (USA) INC.,· · · · · · · · · )
`· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · )
`·4· · · · · · · · · · Petitioner,· · ·)
`· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · )
`·5· · · · · · · · ·-vs-· · · · · · · ·)· Case IPR2018-00111
`· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · )
`·6· ·FUNDAMENTAL INNOVATION SYSTEMS· ·)
`· · ·INTERNATIONAL LLC,· · · · · · · ·)
`·7· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · )
`· · · · · · · · · · · Patent Owner.· ·)
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`10· · · · · · ·Videotaped deposition of JAMES T. GEIER taken
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`11· ·before TRACY L. BLASZAK, CSR, CRR, and Notary Public,
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`12· ·pursuant to the Rules of the United States Patent and
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`13· ·Trademark Office pertaining to the taking of
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`14· ·depositions, at Suite 4000, 444 West Lake Street, in the
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`15· ·City of Chicago, Cook County, Illinois at 9:05 a.m. on
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`16· ·the 30th day of July, A.D., 2018.
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`·1· · · · · · ·There were present at the taking of this
`·2· ·deposition the following counsel:
`·3
`· · · · · · · McDERMOTT WILL & EMERY LLP by
`·4· · · · · · MR. CHARLES M. McMAHON
`· · · · · · · MR. THOMAS DaMARIO
`·5· · · · · · 444 West Lake Street
`· · · · · · · Suite 4000
`·6· · · · · · Chicago, Illinois 60606
`· · · · · · · cmcmahon@mwe.com
`·7· · · · · · tdamario@mwe.com
`· · · · · · · (312) 372-2000
`·8
`· · · · · · · · · ·on behalf of the Petitioner
`·9· · · · · · · · ·ZTE (USA) Inc.;
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`· · · · · · · HAYNES AND BOONE, LLP by
`11· · · · · · MR. GREGORY HUH
`· · · · · · · 2323 Victory Avenue
`12· · · · · · Suite 700
`· · · · · · · Dallas, Texas 75219
`13· · · · · · gregory.huh@haynesboone.com
`· · · · · · · (214) 651-5000
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`· · · · · · · · · ·on behalf of the Petitioner
`15· · · · · · · · ·LG Electronics;
`16
`· · · · · · · IRELL & MANELLA LLP by
`17· · · · · · MR. JASON G. SHEASBY
`· · · · · · · 1800 Avenue of the Stars
`18· · · · · · Suite 900
`· · · · · · · Los Angeles, California 90064
`19· · · · · · jsheasby@irell.com
`· · · · · · · (310) 277-1010
`20
`· · · · · · · · · ·on behalf of the Patent Owners;
`21
`22· · · · · · ALSO PRESENT:· Ms. Barb Rudolf
`· · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·Legal videographer.
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`24· · · · · · · · · · · · · ·- - - - -
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`·1· · · · · · · · · ·VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF
`· · · · · · · · · · · · · JAMES T. GEIER
`·2
`· · · · · · · · · · · · · ·July 30, 2018
`·3
`·4· · ·EXAMINATION BY:· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·PAGE
`·5· ·Mr. Jason G. Sheasby· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·6
`·6
`· · · · · · · · · · · · · · * * * * * *
`·7
`·8· · · · · · · · · · · · · ·EXHIBITS
`·9· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·PAGE
`10· ·Deposition Exhibit 1· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 56
`· · · ·(USB specification 2.0 4/27/00)
`11
`· · ·Deposition Exhibit 2· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 61
`12· · ·(Deposition excerpt of John Irving Garney
`· · · ·re:· Fundamental vs. Samsung 11/20/17
`13
`· · ·Deposition Exhibit 4· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 75
`14· · ·(U.S. patent 5,884,086)
`15· ·Deposition Exhibit 5· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 95
`· · · ·(U.S. patent 6,625,790)
`16
`· · ·Deposition Exhibit 6· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 97
`17· · ·(Cypress preliminary specification of
`· · · ·combination low-speed USB and PS/2
`18· · ·peripheral controller)
`19· ·Deposition Exhibit 7· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 99
`· · · ·(U.S. patent 6,531,845)
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`· · ·Deposition Exhibit 8· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·145
`21· · ·(USB Complete Everything You Need to Develop
`· · · ·Custom USB Perhipherals by Axelson)
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`· · ·Deposition Exhibit 9· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·155
`23· · ·(U.S. patent 6,556,564)
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`·1· · · (exhibit cont'd)· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·PAGE
`·2· ·Deposition Exhibit 10· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 174
`· · · ·(Declaration of Dr. Kenneth Fernald in
`·3· · ·support of patent owner's preliminary
`· · · ·response)
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`· · ·Deposition Exhibit 11· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 203
`·5· · ·(U.S. patent 6,625,738)
`·6· ·Deposition Exhibit 12· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 206
`· · · ·(U.S. patent 8,624,550)
`·7
`· · ·Deposition Exhibit 13· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 214
`·8· · ·(ZTE vs. Fundamental decision to institute)
`·9· ·**Deposition Exhibit 3 not marked
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`11· · · · · · · · · · · · · * * * * * *
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`·1· · · ·THE VIDEOGRAPHER:· Good morning.· Here begins
`·2· ·videotape No. 1 of the deposition of James T. Geier in
`·3· ·the matter of ZTE (USA) Inc. vs. Fundamental Innovation
`·4· ·Systems International LLC filed in the United States
`·5· ·Patent and Trademark Office, case No. IPR 2018-00110.
`·6· · · · · · Today's date is July 30th, 2018, and the time
`·7· ·on the video monitor is 9:05 a.m.
`·8· · · · · · My name is Barb Rudolf from Epiq, and I am the
`·9· ·videographer.
`10· · · · · · This deposition is taking place at McDermott
`11· ·Will & Emery at 444 West Lake Street in Chicago,
`12· ·Illinois.
`13· · · · · · Counsel, please voice identify yourselves and
`14· ·state whom you represent.
`15· · · ·MR. SHEASBY:· Jason Sheasby for Fundamental.
`16· · · ·MR. McMAHON:· Charles McMahon and Tom DaMario for
`17· ·the petitioners.
`18· · · ·MR. HUH:· Gregory Huh for petitioner LG Electronics.
`19· · · ·THE VIDEOGRAPHER:· Will the reporter please swear
`20· ·the witness.
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`·1· · · · · · · · · · · · JAMES T. GEIER,
`·2· ·called as a witness herein, having been first duly
`·3· ·sworn, was examined upon oral interrogatories and
`·4· ·testified as follows:
`·5· · · · · · · · · · · · · EXAMINATION
`·6· · · · · · · · · · · · by Mr. Sheasby:
`·7· · · ·Q· ·Good morning, Mr. Geier.· Can you state your
`·8· ·full name for the record.
`·9· · · ·A· ·Yes, James Thomas Geier.
`10· · · ·Q· ·And when were you first approached by -- Well,
`11· ·when were you first approached to serve as an expert in
`12· ·this case on behalf of the petitioners?
`13· · · ·A· ·I don't remember the specific date, but I think
`14· ·it was around nine to ten months ago, maybe a little bit
`15· ·longer.
`16· · · ·Q· ·And who approached you?
`17· · · ·A· ·Hersh Mehta from McDermott.
`18· · · ·Q· ·And tell me everything he told you?
`19· · · ·A· ·Do you want me to tell you every detail that he
`20· ·told me?
`21· · · ·Q· ·Yes.
`22· · · ·A· ·About the case?
`23· · · ·Q· ·Yes.
`24· · · ·A· ·I don't remember specifically all the details.
`25· ·I produced a report with this that includes my opinions,
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`·1· ·but I don't remember specifically what Mr. Mehta had
`·2· ·told me.
`·3· · · · · · He told me, of course, who the parties were in
`·4· ·the case and that this was an IPR proceeding and asked
`·5· ·if I could look at some references and write a
`·6· ·declaration.
`·7· · · ·Q· ·Who else have you spoken to other than Mr. Mehta
`·8· ·relating to this case?
`·9· · · ·A· ·I've spoken with the attorney sitting next to
`10· ·me, Charlie here from McDermott.
`11· · · ·Q· ·Anyone else?
`12· · · ·A· ·I can't remember specifically other people I
`13· ·spoke to about the case.
`14· · · ·Q· ·Now, you said that Mr. Mehta asked you to look
`15· ·at some art, fair?
`16· · · ·A· ·He certainly asked me to consider some art,
`17· ·right.
`18· · · ·Q· ·He gave you that art, is that correct?
`19· · · ·A· ·I think originally they provided me some
`20· ·references to look at.
`21· · · ·Q· ·What references did they provide you?
`22· · · ·A· ·Certainly the references that are in my report,
`23· ·my declaration, I believe there is some other
`24· ·references.· I looked at some references on my own.
`25· · · · · · You know, I looked at the art, you know, that I
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`·1· ·understood as would have been a person of ordinary skill
`·2· ·in the art at the time what they would have been able to
`·3· ·see.· I looked at a variety of references.
`·4· · · ·Q· ·Did they provide you with the Rogers reference?
`·5· · · ·A· ·I actually don't remember if they provided that
`·6· ·to me or if I found it and then used that.· I can't
`·7· ·remember specifically.
`·8· · · ·Q· ·So you were approached about ten months ago,
`·9· ·fair?
`10· · · ·A· ·I think it was around ten months.· I would have
`11· ·to look at other dates and e-mails and see exactly when
`12· ·that was.
`13· · · ·Q· ·And it's your testimony that you think you found
`14· ·the Rogers reference, is that correct?
`15· · · ·MR. McMAHON:· Objection as to form.
`16· · · ·THE WITNESS:· No, that's not what I said.· I said I
`17· ·can't remember.
`18· · · ·MR. SHEASBY:· Q· ·In fact, you didn't find the
`19· ·Rogers reference.· The Rogers reference was in
`20· ·invalidity contentions that had been submitted by the
`21· ·parties in this IPR long before ten months ago, fair?
`22· · · ·A· ·I don't know if it was or not.
`23· · · ·Q· ·Did you find the Rogers reference?
`24· · · ·A· ·Like I said, I can't remember specifically if I
`25· ·did or not or whether or not Mr. Mehta had provided that
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`·1· ·for me to look at in a bunch of other references.
`·2· · · ·Q· ·Did you find the Shiga reference?
`·3· · · ·A· ·I can't remember specifically if I did.· At the
`·4· ·time I was looking at a lot of different prior art. I
`·5· ·can't remember specifically if I found that or if I was
`·6· ·provided that from the counsel.
`·7· · · ·Q· ·Were you provided the Casebolt reference?
`·8· · · ·A· ·I know I did find some of those references on my
`·9· ·own, in other words, I wasn't provided those.· I looked
`10· ·at all the prior art that was available that I could
`11· ·search on and find and consider.· I don't remember
`12· ·specifically.
`13· · · ·Q· ·The Cypress data sheet, did you find that
`14· ·yourself?
`15· · · ·A· ·Again, it's like the other examples I had in
`16· ·there, I can't remember specifically.
`17· · · ·Q· ·Did you find the Kerai reference yourself?
`18· · · ·A· ·Again, I can't remember specifically.
`19· · · ·Q· ·Did you find the Rogers provisional reference
`20· ·yourself?
`21· · · ·A· ·I think the provisional -- I can't remember for
`22· ·certain.· I can't remember if I actually found that and
`23· ·downloaded that or if I was provided it.
`24· · · ·Q· ·So before you were paid to serve as an expert in
`25· ·this case, had you ever at any time in your history read
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`·1· ·the Rogers reference?
`·2· · · ·A· ·I've been involved with USB for a number of
`·3· ·years, and this dates a while.· I can't remember
`·4· ·specifically if I read that one.
`·5· · · ·Q· ·It's a very simple question, and it's actually a
`·6· ·yes or no question, and we can get the Board on the line
`·7· ·if we need to this afternoon.· That's fine with me.
`·8· · · · · · Before you were paid to begin work as an expert
`·9· ·in this case, had you ever read the Rogers reference,
`10· ·yes or no?
`11· · · ·A· ·Again, I can't remember specifically if I did or
`12· ·not.· I can't answer that yes or no because I can't
`13· ·remember.
`14· · · ·Q· ·Okay.· Before you were paid to serve as an
`15· ·expert in this case, had you ever read the Shiga
`16· ·reference?
`17· · · ·A· ·Again, I've looked at a lot of documents in my
`18· ·career.· I can't remember specifically if I did yes or
`19· ·no.
`20· · · ·Q· ·Before you were paid to serve as an expert in
`21· ·this case, had you ever read the Casebolt reference?
`22· · · ·A· ·Again, I've looked at a lot of different
`23· ·documents.· I can't remember specifically on that one,
`24· ·either.
`25· · · ·Q· ·Before you were paid to serve as an expert in
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`·1· ·this case, had you ever read the Cypress reference?
`·2· · · ·A· ·Again, I can't say yes or no if I have.· I can't
`·3· ·remember.
`·4· · · ·Q· ·Before you were paid to serve as an expert in
`·5· ·this case, had you ever read the Kerai reference?
`·6· · · ·A· ·That references the same thing.· I've looked at
`·7· ·a lot of different references.· I can't remember
`·8· ·specifically if I had or not.
`·9· · · ·Q· ·Tell me the process that went into drafting your
`10· ·expert report.
`11· · · ·A· ·Well, what I did was I certainly read the
`12· ·patent, the '550 patent, the one that we're dealing with
`13· ·here, to understand what was involved there.· And I
`14· ·looked at references and I researched some references
`15· ·and put together some ideas, and then provided that in
`16· ·my declaration.
`17· · · ·Q· ·Did you write your declaration?
`18· · · ·A· ·The declaration was produced as sort of a back
`19· ·and forth type of development.
`20· · · ·Q· ·Who wrote the first draft of your declaration?
`21· · · ·A· ·I can't remember.· I think I did some outlining
`22· ·on that.· I know originally that outline was probably
`23· ·part of the original draft of the declaration, the
`24· ·initial draft of the declaration.· Again, it was a back
`25· ·and forth type.
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`·1· · · ·Q· ·Was the POPR prepared -- Strike that.
`·2· · · · · · Was the petition prepared before the
`·3· ·declaration or after the declaration?
`·4· · · ·A· ·I don't know.
`·5· · · ·Q· ·Did you read the petition?
`·6· · · ·A· ·I think at some point afterwards I did in my
`·7· ·preparation.· I mostly focused on my declaration.
`·8· · · ·Q· ·You spoke about the '550 patent.· You read the
`·9· ·'550 patent, fair?
`10· · · ·A· ·Yes, I have.
`11· · · ·Q· ·How many times have you read it?
`12· · · ·A· ·I don't remember how many times I've read it.
`13· · · ·Q· ·Now, you understand that the '550 patent has its
`14· ·source in research at BlackBerry which used to be known
`15· ·as Research In Motion, correct?
`16· · · ·A· ·I'm sorry, could you repeat that question. I
`17· ·didn't hear the first part of it.
`18· · · ·Q· ·The '550 patent has its source in research at
`19· ·BlackBerry or Research In Motion, correct?
`20· · · ·A· ·I think I remember seeing it on the patent, yes.
`21· · · ·Q· ·And you were in the field at the time of the
`22· ·patent, correct?
`23· · · ·A· ·Sure, absolutely.
`24· · · ·Q· ·And so you were familiar with the introduction
`25· ·of BlackBerry phones that used USB charging, fair?
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`·1· · · ·A· ·Certainly as a person of ordinary skill in the
`·2· ·art, yes.
`·3· · · ·Q· ·The answer to my question is yes, correct?
`·4· · · ·A· ·I'm familiar with the BlackBerry phones, yes.
`·5· · · ·Q· ·And the Quark phones were the first phones that
`·6· ·had USB charging, correct?
`·7· · · ·A· ·What type of phones did you say?
`·8· · · ·Q· ·Quark?
`·9· · · ·A· ·I don't remember specifically.
`10· · · ·Q· ·Before BlackBerry -- You understand that
`11· ·BlackBerry did introduce USB charging in their phones,
`12· ·correct?
`13· · · ·A· ·I remember some of that, but I don't remember
`14· ·specifically what the details were.
`15· · · ·Q· ·Do you know who was the first company to
`16· ·introduce USB charging in their phones?
`17· · · ·A· ·I can't remember specifically.· Of course, I
`18· ·know what the prior art indicates as far as what
`19· ·technology was there and how that type of charging
`20· ·worked.
`21· · · ·Q· ·I'm sorry, I don't think you answered my
`22· ·question.
`23· · · · · · Do you know, yes or no, who was the first
`24· ·company that introduced USB charging?
`25· · · ·MR. McMAHON:· Objection as to form.
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`·1· · · ·MR. SHEASBY:· Q· ·In phones?
`·2· · · ·A· ·Well, certainly -- I don't remember specifically
`·3· ·which phones those were or which companies that would
`·4· ·provide an actual USB charging that complied with the
`·5· ·standard.· I don't remember specifically which ones.
`·6· · · ·Q· ·Have you ever worked in mobile phone space?
`·7· · · ·A· ·Absolutely I have.
`·8· · · ·Q· ·When have you worked in the mobile phone space?
`·9· · · ·A· ·I've worked in that space since I think about
`10· ·the time frame -- I would say the '90s, 1990s.
`11· · · ·Q· ·When exactly?
`12· · · ·A· ·I know for sure at Monarch Marking Systems, and
`13· ·I started there in 1996.
`14· · · · · · By working in the mobile phone space, I guess,
`15· ·what are you referring to as working?· Do you mean
`16· ·designing or using the phones?
`17· · · ·Q· ·Well, let's do it in pieces.· Have you ever
`18· ·designed a mobile phone that uses USB charging?
`19· · · ·A· ·No, I don't think I've designed a mobile phone
`20· ·that uses USB charging.
`21· · · ·Q· ·Let me ask the next question, then.
`22· · · · · · Have you ever designed a tablet that uses USB
`23· ·charging?
`24· · · ·A· ·Not necessarily specifically a tablet.· I worked
`25· ·with other devices.
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`·1· · · ·Q· ·Have you ever designed a device that uses USB
`·2· ·charging?
`·3· · · ·A· ·I've designed devices that do implement the USB
`·4· ·specification which would include the charging aspects
`·5· ·of USB.
`·6· · · ·Q· ·What USB specification did they implement?
`·7· · · ·A· ·I'm trying to remember.· This would have been
`·8· ·about ten years ago.· I don't remember specifically
`·9· ·which version of that was, but it was roughly ten years
`10· ·ago.
`11· · · ·Q· ·So about 2007, fair?
`12· · · ·A· ·Roughly.
`13· · · ·Q· ·So in 2007 you designed a device that used the
`14· ·USB specification for charging, fair?
`15· · · ·A· ·It certainly used a phone that had USB charging,
`16· ·and we took advantage of that for the application.
`17· · · ·Q· ·What was the phone you designed?
`18· · · ·A· ·This was an application that dealt with
`19· ·monitoring of concrete trucks coming into a facility
`20· ·where they would be getting their supplies.· You know,
`21· ·their cement would be put in the truck.· As they drove
`22· ·in, there was a mobile phone involved that had USB
`23· ·charging that we took advantage of that would be
`24· ·charging the device.
`25· · · ·Q· ·Was it a mobile phone that you designed?
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`·1· · · ·A· ·It's a mobile phone that we used in the
`·2· ·application.
`·3· · · ·Q· ·Who made the mobile phone?
`·4· · · ·A· ·I can't remember specifically.· We used several
`·5· ·different types of mobile phones.
`·6· · · ·Q· ·Did you design the USB charging for that mobile
`·7· ·phone or was it off the shelf?
`·8· · · ·A· ·Do you mean the charging within the phone or do
`·9· ·you mean the system that charged it?· I'm trying to
`10· ·understand your question.
`11· · · ·Q· ·Well, let's start, did you design the USB
`12· ·charging system within the phone itself?
`13· · · ·A· ·For that particular phone, the charging was
`14· ·already part of the specification, so the phone
`15· ·implemented that.
`16· · · · · · I designed the part around that that would
`17· ·supply that power to that phone.
`18· · · ·Q· ·So you designed a power supply for a mobile
`19· ·phone in 2007, fair?
`20· · · ·A· ·That's fair to say.
`21· · · ·Q· ·Okay.· What was that power supply that you
`22· ·designed, how did it work?
`23· · · ·A· ·Well, the power supply provided the power to
`24· ·meet the USB specification.· This was a USB-specified
`25· ·phone or a USB-compliant phone, so it --
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`·1· · · ·Q· ·How did it supply that power?
`·2· · · ·A· ·It provided the power to the phone as necessary
`·3· ·as the phone needed.
`·4· · · ·Q· ·Through a USB connection?
`·5· · · ·A· ·It went through a USB connection, yes.
`·6· · · ·Q· ·Where did the power come from?
`·7· · · ·A· ·The power came from the truck battery in one
`·8· ·situation.
`·9· · · · · · There is another element of this it would be
`10· ·done in the control room, and it came from an AC outlet
`11· ·that was converted to the power that was needed to drive
`12· ·the phone or to supply power to the phone.
`13· · · ·Q· ·And you don't remember what USB specification
`14· ·was employed with that, correct?
`15· · · ·A· ·I don't remember specifically -- I don't
`16· ·remember the specification that was specifically used
`17· ·for that.
`18· · · ·Q· ·How many volts did --
`19· · · ·MR. McMAHON:· Objection.· Jason, let's let Mr. Geier
`20· ·finish his answer, please.
`21· · · ·MR. SHEASBY:· Q· ·How many volts did it supply?
`22· · · ·A· ·For this particular application was a
`23· ·USB-specified application, I believe it supplied 5
`24· ·volts.
`25· · · ·Q· ·And how much current did it supply?
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`·1· · · ·A· ·Again, this was a USB-specified version that
`·2· ·followed the USB specifications, and I believe it was
`·3· ·500 milliamps.
`·4· · · ·Q· ·Did the charging system that you developed in
`·5· ·2007 exceed the voltage or current limits set out in the
`·6· ·USB specification?
`·7· · · ·A· ·Yes, this one was compliant with the USB
`·8· ·standard, so it did not.· It provided what the USB
`·9· ·standard had specified.
`10· · · ·Q· ·Have you ever provided -- or have you ever
`11· ·designed a USB-based power or charging system that
`12· ·didn't comply with the USB standard?
`13· · · ·A· ·I certainly designed power supplies that didn't
`14· ·meet the USB specifications, yes.
`15· · · ·Q· ·I don't think you heard my question.
`16· · · · · · Did you ever design a power or charging system
`17· ·that employed USB that did not satisfy the
`18· ·specification?
`19· · · ·MR. McMAHON:· Objection as to form.
`20· · · ·THE WITNESS:· Well, many of the devices I worked
`21· ·with had power supplies and they had USB connections.
`22· ·And these power supplies produced more voltage and
`23· ·current than what was specified in the USB standard.
`24· · · ·MR. SHEASBY:· Q· ·And did they supply that excess
`25· ·current or voltage to the mobile device that had the USB
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`·1· ·connector?
`·2· · · ·A· ·They provided that power to the device -- they
`·3· ·had a USB connector, and it provided power to that
`·4· ·device.
`·5· · · ·Q· ·In excess of the USB specification?
`·6· · · ·A· ·Yes.· Certainly there is applications of this
`·7· ·particular technology I've been involved in that did
`·8· ·that.
`·9· · · ·Q· ·Okay.· Give me all the examples in which you've
`10· ·used a USB connector and supplied voltage or current in
`11· ·excess of the USB specification?
`12· · · ·A· ·One example would be at Monarch Marking Systems
`13· ·where we had tabletop printers that had USB connectors,
`14· ·and these particular tabletop printers had power
`15· ·supplies.
`16· · · · · · The power supply produced the voltage and the
`17· ·current for that printer, and it had a USB connector for
`18· ·communications.· That was a device with a USB connector
`19· ·that had a power supply in excess of what USB would
`20· ·specify as limits on voltage and current.
`21· · · ·Q· ·Was the power supply through the USB connector?
`22· · · ·A· ·No, that particular power supply was not.· You
`23· ·asked -- I'm trying to answer the question.
`24· · · ·Q· ·You know what, I'm not asking you for your
`25· ·explanation.· You can just answer the question.· The
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`·1· ·Board will decide whether you're being truthful or
`·2· ·accurate or responsive.
`·3· · · ·MR. McMAHON:· Objection as to form.· Let's leave the
`·4· ·tone aside.· Keep it professional.
`·5· · · ·MR. SHEASBY:· Q· ·Have you ever at any time in your
`·6· ·career ever designed a device in which power is supplied
`·7· ·through the USB connector in excess of the USB
`·8· ·specification?
`·9· · · ·A· ·Dealing with specifically USB and providing
`10· ·power over the USB cables or connection, I have not
`11· ·designed a power supply that exceeds those USB limits
`12· ·for a USB-specified device, USB-compliant device.
`13· · · ·Q· ·So let's try to get a clear answer.
`14· · · · · · At no time in your history have you ever, ever
`15· ·designed a system in which power is supplied over a USB
`16· ·connection that exceeds the USB specification?
`17· · · ·MR. McMAHON:· Objection as to form.
`18· · · ·THE WITNESS:· I think, as I explained, the projects
`19· ·I worked on that dealt with USB I have not designed a
`20· ·power supply that would exceed the voltage and current
`21· ·over the USB connection on the projects I've worked on.
`22· · · ·MR. SHEASBY:· Q· ·And how many projects have you
`23· ·worked on that involve the supply of voltage and current
`24· ·through the USB connection to a device?
`25· · · ·A· ·I don't remember specifically how many.
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`·1· · · ·Q· ·Give me your best estimate.
`·2· · · ·A· ·I would say five to ten.· I mean, that's just an
`·3· ·estimate.
`·4· · · · · · There could be more.
`·5· · · ·Q· ·All right.· So your best estimate is you've
`·6· ·designed between five and ten devices in which power is
`·7· ·supplied via the USB connector, fair?
`·8· · · ·A· ·I think that's fair.
`·9· · · ·Q· ·And in none of those devices did the power that
`10· ·was supplied exceed the limits set out in the USB
`11· ·specification 2.0, correct?
`12· · · ·A· ·Again, certainly within voltage and current
`13· ·those were provided within the USB specification.
`14· · · · · · These were USB-compliant devices, totally USB
`15· ·compliant.
`16· · · ·Q· ·Now, you understand that the '550 patent in this
`17· ·case teaches supplying power in excess of that set out
`18· ·in the USB specification, fair?
`19· · · ·A· ·Certainly, the claims in the '550 patent
`20· ·certainly allow for that.· I mean, the claims are
`21· ·written that way to provide more current or other
`22· ·parameters dealing with the delivery of current.
`23· · · ·Q· ·If you can answer my specific question, the '550
`24· ·patent in its specification teaches providing current in
`25· ·excess of the current specified in the USB 2.0
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`·1· ·specification, fair?
`·2· · · ·A· ·That's certainly an example of what it supports,
`·3· ·yes.
`·4· · · ·Q· ·And the claims actually recite in certain
`·5· ·instances supplying current in excess of the current set
`·6· ·out in the USB specification, fair point?
`·7· · · ·A· ·Certainly in the supply of current these claims
`·8· ·are stating that the adapter is configured to supply
`·9· ·current in excess of the current that's provided in the
`10· ·specification.· That certainly fits within those claims.
`11· · · ·Q· ·Well, it just doesn't fit within those claims,
`12· ·it's actually recited in the claims, correct?
`13· · · ·A· ·I think I would want to look at the claims to
`14· ·tell you exactly what the wording is.· I haven't
`15· ·memorized the claims.
`16· · · · · · But if I looked at the patent, I could tell you
`17· ·what it's actually saying, I mean, it's explicitly
`18· ·saying in the words.
`19· · · ·Q· ·Now, for the USB devices that you designed in
`20· ·which power is supplied via the USB connection, did you
`21· ·ever design a device that didn't enumerate?
`22· · · ·A· ·Yes, I believe some of those did, right.· In
`23· ·terms of USB enumeration, I don't believe all of those
`24· ·devices implemented USB-specified enumeration.
`25· · · ·Q· ·Okay.· Tell me the devices that you used, that
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`·1· ·you designed that didn't implement USB enumeration?
`·2· · · ·A· ·I remember that at Monarch Marking Systems,
`·3· ·again, there was a portable device that would receive
`·4· ·power through the USB connection.· And it was for purely
`·5· ·charging purposes through an AC adapter that's plugged
`·6· ·into the wall.· So there was a power supply that would
`·7· ·convert the power from the DC.· I'm trying to explain my
`·8· ·answer.
`·9· · · · · · But that's a type of device that did not
`10· ·require enumeration.
`11· · · ·Q· ·I don't think you're being responsive to my
`12· ·question.
`13· · · · · · Did you ever design a USB device in which power
`14· ·was supplied via the USB connector in which the device
`15· ·did not have the capability of enumeration?
`16· · · ·MR. McMAHON:· Objection as to form.
`17· · · ·THE WITNESS:· Certainly, yes, I can remember doing
`18· ·that at Monarch Marking Systems.
`19· · · ·MR. SHEASBY:· Q· ·Tell me the device that you
`20· ·designed in which power was supplied over the USB
`21· ·connection in which there was no enumeration?
`22· · · ·A· ·This was a device that was a bar code data
`23· ·collector which had a scanner and printer built in that
`24· ·was being charged in a charging port.
`25· · · ·Q· ·And that device didn't have the capability of
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`·1· ·enumeration, is that your testimony?
`·2· · · ·A· ·I know the device did not perform USB
`·3· ·enumeration.
`·4· · · ·Q· ·I think you're not being responsive to my
`·5· ·question.
`·6· · · · · · Did the bar code scanner that you're referring
`·7· ·to have the ability to participate in enumeration?
`·8· · · ·MR. McMAHON:· Objection as to form.
`·9· · · ·THE WITNESS:· I don't think that this bar code
`10· ·scanner could do enumeration.· It was only used for
`11· ·charging purposes.
`12· · · ·MR. SHEASBY:· Q· ·All right.· When was this bar code
`13· ·scanner created?
`14· · · ·A· ·I don't remember specifically the date.· I know
`15· ·I was working at Monarch Marking Systems at the time,
`16· ·and I started there in 1996.
`17· · · ·Q· ·Give me your best estimate on when this bar code
`18· ·scanner was created?
`19· · · ·A· ·I would say sometime between 1996 and 2000.
`20· · · ·Q· ·Was it USB compliant?
`21· · · ·A· ·This particular device implemented some -- I
`22· ·wouldn't say it was USB compliant.· It didn't -- Well,
`23· ·let me think about that for a minute.· This has been a
`24· ·number of years, you know, since I've worked on this.
`25· · · · · · I can't remember specifically if this was 100
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`·1· ·percent compliant.· It's been a number of years since
`·2· ·I've worked on that project.
`·3· · · ·Q· ·How did the device -- And so when the device was
`·4· ·plugged into the power port, what happened?
`·5· · · ·MR. McMAHON:· Objection as to form.
`·6· · · ·THE WITNESS:· Well, the charger, there was a charger
`·7· ·there, it would charge that particular device through
`·8· ·the USB port.
`·9· · · ·MR. SHEASBY:· Q· ·How did it do the charging?
`10· · · ·A· ·It supplied a current and voltage -- or voltage
`11· ·across that which caused a current to flow, and the
`12· ·current allowed the batteries in that device to charge.
`13· · · ·Q· ·How did the port signal to the device that it
`14· ·was capable of providing power to it?
`15· · · ·A· ·I can't remember the specific signals that it
`16· ·used, you know, in that particular device.· I know it
`17· ·was used for charging, you know, that device.
`18· · · ·Q· ·What signals were -- were the signals passed
`19· ·over the data lines or the power lines?
`20· · · ·A· ·Which -- I have to ask, which signals are you
`21· ·referring to?
`22· · · ·Q· ·The signals that would signal to the device that
`23· ·the port was capable of providing it with power?
`24· · · ·MR. McMAHON:· Objection as to form.
`25· · · ·THE WITNESS:· Again, I can't remember the use of
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`·1· ·signals to do that.
`·2· · · ·MR. SHEASBY:· Q· ·So how did the device know that it
`·3· ·could accept power from that USB charging port?
`·4· · · ·A· ·I can't remember what we used for that.· I know
`·5· ·that we used that particular device, and I was part of
`·6· ·this development to charge those devices over the USB
`·7· ·port.
`·8· · · ·Q· ·And you don't remember what you used?
`·9· · · ·A· ·Sitting here right now, I can't remember, no.
`10· · · ·Q· ·Now, once the bar code scanner scanned the
`11· ·information, where did that information go?
`12· · · ·A· ·The bar code scanner when it would scan
`13· ·something, an operator would use this thing and scan
`14· ·something, that data would go inside the bar code
`15· ·scanner in one model that we had, that was called a
`16· ·batch model.· So it would go into memory.
`17· · · · · · Another model of this device was radio
`18· ·frequency connectivity back to the server, so when
`19· ·something was scanned, that data would go through that
`20· ·bar code scanner to a server.
`21· · · ·Q· ·And when the data was on memory, how was that
`22· ·data extracted from memory?
`23· · · ·A· ·I don't understand your question.
`24· · · ·Q· ·Sure.· When the bar code scanner would collect
`25· ·bar code information in its memory, how was that data
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`·1· ·subsequently extracted from the memory?
`·2· · · ·A· ·Well, I don't remember specifics, but there was
`·3· ·a microprocessor in the device that would look at that
`·4· ·memory and depending on what mode it's in would take
`·5· ·that data and do something with it.
`·6· · · · · · In radio frequency mode it would be taking that
`·7· ·data and then sending it out the radio channel which
`·8· ·there was a transceiver there that that would be
`·9· ·transmitted to a server.
`10· · · ·Q· ·And in this device, this bar code scanner, there
`11· ·was no enumeration performed, is that correct, you
`12· ·deactivated enumeration?
`13· · · ·MR. McMAHON:· Objection as to form.
`14· · · ·THE WITNESS:· I wouldn't necessarily say we
`15· ·deactivated enumeration.· Enumeration I don't recall
`16· ·being used or necessary because we were using this to
`17· ·charge the phone over the USB connection.
`18· · · · · · It was a type of connection used because it was
`19· ·convenient based on the type of chargers that we had.
`20· · · ·MR. SHEASBY:· Q· ·Did that USB connector on the
`21· ·USB -- Strike that.
`22· · · · · · Did the USB connector on the bar code scanner
`23· ·that you designed have the ability to perform USB
`24· ·communication?
`25· ·