PHGHLY CONHDENHAL-ATTORNEYSEYESONLYPURSUANT
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`UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
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`BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`UNIFIED PATENTS,
`
`INC.,
`
`Petitioner
`
`UNIVERSAL SECURE REGISTRY LLC
`
`Patent Owner
`
`IPR2018-00067
`
`Patent 8,577,813
`
`HI
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`GHLY CONFIDENTIAL - ATTORNEYS' EYES ONLY
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`PURSUANT TO PROTECTIVE ORDER
`
`Deposition of KEVIN JAKEL,
`
`taken at the
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`Offic
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`es of Unified Patents, Inc., 1875 Connecticut
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`Avenue, NW, 10th Floor, Washington, D.C., beginning
`
`at 10
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`:06 a.m., on Tuesday, August 28, 2018, before
`
`Ryan
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`K. Black, a Registered Professional Reporter,
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`Certi
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`and f
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`fied Livenote Reporter and Notary Public in
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`or the District of Columbia.
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`Job No. 3000611
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`Pages 1 — 173
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`Page 1
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`HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL - ATTORNEYS EYES ONLY PURSUANT
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`
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`APPEARANCES:
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`I
`2
`
`3 Representing - Petitioner:
`4
`ERISE 1P. P.A.
`
`5
`6
`7
`
`BY: JASON R. MUDD. ESQUIRE
`7015 College Boulevard
`Suite 700
`
`Overland Park, Kansas 66211
`913.777.5614
`jason.mudd@eriseip.com
`
`S
`9
`10
`11
`12 Representing - Patent Owner:
`13
`QUINN EMANUEL URQUHART & SULLIVAN. LLP
`14
`BY: NIMA HEFAZI. ESQUIRE
`15
`[ViaTe]econference)
`16
`865 South Figueroa Street
`17
`mm Floor
`
`Los Angeles. California 90017
`213.443.3000
`nilnahefazi@quinnemanuel.com
`
`18
`19
`20
`21
`
`22 ALSO PRESENT:
`21
`Jonathan Stroud - Unified Patents
`
`l
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`23
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`Whereupon—-
`KEVIN JAKEL,
`
`called to testify, having been first duly swom
`or affirmed, was examined and testified as
`
`follows:
`
`EXAMINATION
`BY MR. HEFAZI:
`
`Q Hello, Mr. Jakel. My name is Nima
`Hefazi. I‘m counsel for the patent owner,
`Universal Secure Registry.
`Could you start by stating your name
`and address for the record?
`A. My name is Kevin Jake]. My address is
`7306 Durbin Terrace, Bethesda, Maryland.
`Q. Sorry. Could you repeat the address
`one more time?
`A. 7306 Durbin Terrace, Bethesda,
`
`Maryland.
`Q. Appreciate that.
`And have you been deposed before?
`I have.
`
`A.
`
`Q. How many times?
`A.
`I believe four.
`
`24
`E
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`Q. And were these all in the context of
`24
`Roshan Mansinghani - Unified Patents
`(Via Teleconference)
`25
`IPRS?
`
`Page 2
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`Page 4
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`I N D EX
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`TESTIMONY OF: KEVIN JAKEL
`By Mr. I-Iefazi..................................4
`
`PAGE
`
`PAGE
`
`E X H I B I T S
`DESCRIPTION
`EXHIBIT
`a document Bates Numbered
`Exhibit 1
`UNIFIED-USR~00008 through
`UNIFIED-USR-00024..................39
`Exhibit 2
`a document titled NPEs are a
`$10 Billion A Year Problem,
`Reduce Your Risk & Cost of NPE
`Litigation.........................69
`Exhibit 3
`a document titled Join Us - Reasons
`To Join Now........................69
`
`Exhibit 4 a document Bates Numbered
`UNIFIED-USR-OUOZS through
`0004290
`Exhibit 5
`a document titled Petitioner
`
`1
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`1 1
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`A. One of them was not.
`
`Q. What was the other one related to?
`What was the one that was not related to?
`A. Back when I was a young associate
`at Howrey,] was deposed in relation to
`handling of some prosecution dockets,
`transferring those files, and how the
`prosecution was handled at Howrey. The
`prosecution was all done long before I was
`at Howrey, but just simply because I put my
`hands on them, they had to take my deposition.
`Q. Okay. Okay. And the other three you
`said were in the context of an IPR, are those in
`the context of a dispute of real party in
`interest issues?
`
`I mean, I can give you the names
`A.
`of the lPRs. They asked me questions, and in
`those IPRs they did challenge real party in
`interest.
`
`Unified Patents Inc.'5 Supplemental
`Responses To Voluntary Additional
`Discovery.........................120
`Exhibit 6
`a document Bates Numbered
`UNIFIED-USR—00004 through
`00007123
`_M___
`
`Q. Okay. So what were the names of those
`20
`IPRS?
`21
`A. Well, the first two. one was called
`22
`Clouding IF, the other one was called Parallel
`23
`Iron. Both, kind of, depositions were taken the
`24
`same day and together because the ultimate owne
`25
`_L.,i_u_[:a§.3j___u.__
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`HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL — ATTORNEYS EYES ONLY PURSUANT
`— —i
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`1
`2
`3
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`6
`7
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`Stroud.
`Q. And were you shown any documents?
`A. We reviewed the documents in the
`
`production that we provided to you.
`Q. And that includes the supplemental
`production that was provided yesterday?
`A.
`It does.
`
`of those patents were the same company. Those
`depositions were actually given in the context
`of District Court litigation, and that's it.
`Q. Okay. So you haven't been deposed --
`other than these three depositions and that
`one non-IPR deposition, there was no other
`depositions that you have sat for?
`A. There was another deposition in Dragon
`IP. That deposition was given in the context of
`an IPR filed against Dragon IP, and was given
`under the jurisdiction of the USPTO and PTAB.
`Q. And did the Board in that case decide
`on any real party in interest issues? Do you
`know?
`
`A. My recollection is the Board did
`decide on real party in interest in Dragon IP.
`Q. They did decide. and what was their
`decision?
`
`
`
`Q. Okay. And what is your current title
`8
`at Unified?
`9
`A.
`I'm the CEO.
`10
`Q. And you've been CEO since Unified was
`l I
`founded?
`12
`A. Correct.
`13
`Q. And what are your responsibilities as
`14
`CEO?
`15
`A. To run the company.
`16
`Q. Okay. What do you mean by running the
`17
`company? What does that involve?
`18
`A.
`It means everything from managing
`19
`A. They found that Unified was the only
`payroll, overseeing our activities, managing
`20
`real party in interest.
`personnel, managing any issues that come up as
`2|
`Q. Okay. Okay. So you‘ve sat through a
`part of the company.
`22
`deposition, and I think you know the ground
`Q. Are you involved in client relations
`23
`rules, butjust for a refresher here, the court
`at all?
`24
`reporter will transcribe everything that] say.
`They can‘t transcribe non-audible responses,
`25
`A.
`I am.
`Page 8
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`25
`
`Q. And what involvement do you have in
`1
`client relations?
`2
`A.
`I am involved in managing client
`3
`relations.
`4
`Q. Okay. Could you tell me what goes
`5
`into managing client relations? Do you meet
`6
`with clients? Can you maybe speak a little bit
`7
`more about what your role in managing client
`8
`relations involves?
`9
`A.
`I do meet with clients occasionally.
`10
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`A. Probably three or four hours.
`22 —
`23 —
`Q. Okay. And when you say we, could you
`name the person you met with?
`24—
`25 —A. Our counsel, Jason, and Jonathan
`Page 7 1
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`and I can‘t hear, since I'm on the telephone,
`inaudible responses. So if you canjust speak
`clearly and loudly, that would be great. It's
`also confusing if two people talk at the same
`time, so if we canjust make sure not to talk
`over one another.
`In responding to my
`questions, if you have any kind of need
`for clarification or you don‘t understand a
`particular question. please let me know, and
`I'll rephrase. Otherwise, I'll assume you
`
`understand. And if you need a break at any
`time,just let me know. As long as a question's
`not pending, we should be able to handle that.
`Is that fair? Does that make sense?
`A. Yes.
`
`Q. Great.
`
`So what did you do to prepare for this
`deposition?
`A. We met yesterday.
`Q. And, approximately, how long did you
`meet?
`
`
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`Page 9
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`HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL - ATTORNEYS EYES ONLY PURSUANT
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`18
`BY MR. HEFAZI:
`
`19
`20
`
`21
`22
`
`'23
`24
`25
`
`Q. Has Unified evertold its members that
`its services are a benefit for its members?
`
`MR. MUDD: Objection;form.
`THE WITNESS: Unified's business
`
`model is, it performs a bit for a zone, and
`those benefits are enjoyed by everyone in the
`zone in our approach.
`
`Page 23
`
`mqmwemw—
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`ND
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`‘0
`
`
`
`
`
`BY MR. HEFAZI:
`
`Q. So my question is, has Unified ever
`advertised that its services are for its
`
`membership, that its IPR services are there
`to benefit its members?
`
`MR. MUDD: Objection; form.
`THE WITNESS:
`I don‘t know ifI‘ve
`
`ever said those exact words before in any
`materials, or in person.
`BY MR. HEFAZI:
`
`Q. Okay. Have you ever expressed that
`sentiment?
`
`MR. MUDD: Objection to form.
`THE WITNESS:
`I don't know if I've
`
`ever expressed that exact sentiment, in that
`exact way, either on pay or literally.
`BY MR. HEFAZI:
`
`I'm not asking for it that exact way.
`Q.
`Have you ever told members that, you know, you
`services, your [PR services, would benefit those
`members?
`
`MR. MUDD: Objection; form. Object to
`the extent it mischaracterizes testimony.
`THE WITNESS:
`l have, on many
`occasions, said that our activities will benefit
`Page 24
`
`a zone and -—
`BY MR. HEFAZI:
`
`Q. Okay. So my question's a little bit
`different. Sol understand you said that you
`have said on many occasions that your activities
`will benefit a zone. Have you also said, ever,
`that your activities will benefit members?
`MR. MUDD: Objection;form. Asked and
`answered.
`
`THE WITNESS: What I am saying is
`that l have, on many occasions, said that our
`activities will benefit a zone, which will
`include both members and nonmembers.
`BY MR. HEFAZI:
`
`Q. And so my question for you, have you
`-- have you ever said that your activities will
`benefit members? Have you ever, kind of,
`pitched it in the context of a member?
`MR. MUDD: Objection;form. Asked and
`answered.
`
`THE WITNESS: Our pitch is always that
`we are going to benefit the zone. The fact that
`there are members in that zone is true. There
`are also nonmembers who are in that zone that
`
`choose not to pay us.
`
`Page 25
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`HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL — ATTORNEYS EYES ONLY PURSUANT
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`1
`
`BY MR. HEFAZI:
`
`1
`
`Q. More than 10?
`
`2 — 2
`3 _ 3
`4 — 4
`5 — 5
`6 — 6
`7 _
`7
`8 — 8
`9 — 9
`10
`BY MR. HEFAZI:
`10
`
`I don't recall.
`A.
`Q. Okay. And let me clarify fora
`second, when I say not asserted against any one
`of its members, I mean not asserted or alleged
`to be infringed, not formal litigation filed.
`[ guess in -- in the patent -- let me strike
`that and try again.
`In the lPRs you're referring to that
`were filed, were members accused of infringing
`
`
`
`mamatemv
`n — n
`MR. MUDD: Objection: form.
`12 — 12
`THE WITNESS:
`I'm having some
`13 — 13
`difficulty understanding your question.
`14— 14
`Is — .5 WWW.
`l6 — 16
`Q. So a moment ago when [ asked do you
`17 — l7
`know if Unified has ever filed an IPR on patents
`13 — 18
`that were not asserted against its members, l
`19— 19
`just want to clarify, you said yes. Were those
`20 — 2D
`IPRs, the ones that you were referring to in
`21 — 21
`your answer. were the patents in those IPRs
`22 — 22
`accused against your members? Were your members
`23 — 23
`accused of infringing those patents?
`24 — 24
`MR. MUDD: Objection to form.
`25 — 25
`Object to the extent it mischaracterizes
`
`Page 26
`Page 28
`
`prior testimony. Objection to speculation.
`BY MR. HEFAZI:
`Q. Let me try rephrasing the question a
`little better.
`
`Has Unified ever filed an IPR on
`patents that their members were not accused of
`infringing?
`MR. MUDD: Objection; form.
`THE WITNESS:
`I believe that to be
`
`true.
`BY MR. HEFAZI:
`
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`I I
`
`
`
`l — 1
`2 _
`2
`3 — 3
`4
`BY MR. HEFAZI:
`4
`
`
`
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`1 1
`
`Q. Well, let me ask you this: Has
`Unified ever filed an IPR on a patent that was
`not asserted against one of its members?
`A. Can you repeat that question?
`Q. Has Unified ever filed an IPR on a
`patent that was not asserted against at least
`one of its members?
`
`Q. And how often —- well, strike that.
`12
`A. Yes, we have.
`12
`What is your belief based on?
`13
`Q. And can you give me an example?
`13
`A. We have filed IPRs where we have no
`[4
`A. Off the top of my head. I don‘t
`14
`knowledge of any accusation of infringement
`15
`recall, but we could figure it out.
`15
`against any of our members.
`16
`Q. How many times has Unified filed an
`16
`Q. Okay. And as the CEO of the company,
`17
`IPR on a patent that was not asserted against
`17
`can you name one IPR, sitting here today, where
`18
`any one of its members?
`18
`the IPR was filed by Unified and the patent was
`19
`MR. MUDD: Objection to form.
`19
`not asserted against one of Unified‘s members,
`20
`THE WITNESS:
`I don't know the
`20
`as far as Unified was aware?
`21
`specific number.
`21
`MR. MUDD: Objection; form.
`22
`BY MR. HEFAZI:
`22
`THE WITNESS: We have filed well over
`23
`Q. Do you have a rough range? Was it
`23
`a hundred lPRs, and I do not recall the names of
`24
`one, two, 10, 20?
`24
`all of the IPRs we have filed. So I do not
`25
`A. More than one.
`25
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`Page 29
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`HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL - ATTORNEYS EYES ONLY PURSUANT
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`recall, off the top of my head, the exact name
`of the IPRs in which this scenario has taken
`
`place.
`BY MR. HEFAZI:
`
`Q.
`
`Is this something that's common?
`MR. MUDD: Objection; form.
`THE WITNESS:
`I do not believe that it
`
`1
`2
`
`3
`4
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`5
`6
`7
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`A. We would look at all of the IPRs that
`we have filed and check to see if members had
`
`been sued on those IPRs prior to us filing that
`IPR.
`
`Q. Okay. And does Unified have a
`membership list?
`A. We do.
`
`OOs—JGNUI-h-NNH
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`
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`Page 31 Page 33
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`patents which have been in our zones where we
`have filed an IPR, and my recollection is that
`in those IPRs we had no knowledge that there wa
`any allegation of infringement on those patents.
`BY MR. HEFAZI:
`Q. SO if I were to look at the last 20
`patents -- 20 IPRs filed by Unified, would you
`suspect that at least one of those would have
`been against a patent that was not asserted
`against your members?
`MR. MUDD: Objection; form.
`Speculation.
`THE WITNESS:
`of my head.
`BY MR. HEFAZI:
`Q. Okay. Do you have a sense of the
`percentage of patents that you Challenge that
`are not asserted against your members?
`MR. MUDD: Objection; form.
`Speculation.
`I do not have that
`THE WITNESS:
`number off the top of my head.
`BY MR. HEFAZI:
`Q. And who would you —- where would you
`go to find that number?
`
`is uncommon.
`BY MR. HEFAZI:
`Q. Okay. So you've said you've filed
`well over a hundred lPRs, so would you say that
`at least 20 or 30 of these lPRs would have been
`filed on patents in which Unified is not aware
`that its members were involved?
`MR. MUDD: Objection; form.
`Speculation.
`THE WITNESS:
`number.
`
`I do not know the exact
`
`8
`9
`10
`l I
`12
`13
`14
`[5
`16
`17
`18
`
`19
`BY MR. HEFAZI:
`20
`Q. Well, you said it was believed to be
`-- you believed it to be not uncommon. What was 21
`the basis for that?
`22
`MR. MUDD: Objection; form.
`23
`Speculation.
`2-4
`THE WITNESS:
`25
`
`I know there have been
`Page 30
`
`
`
`Q. And how many members does it have?
`A.
`I think we are over 200 members right
`now.
`Q. And is thatjust a single paper,
`or,l guess, it's a list of members on a single
`document?
`MR. MUDD: Objection; form.
`THE WITNESS:
`It is on a spreadsheet.
`BY MR. l-IEFAZI:
`Q. Okay. It's a single file, though?
`A. Yes.
`I believe so.
`
`Q. Has Unified produced its member list
`in this case?
`A.
`I don‘t believe the member list was
`asked for in discovery.
`Q. Okay. Has Unified produced a member
`list in any patent cases?
`A. We have.
`
`
`
`Page 32
`
`I don't know off the top
`
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`Q. You have.
`And is there a burden -- what would be
`the burden associated with producing the members
`list?
`
`MR. MUDD: Objection;form.
`Objection; calls for a legal conclusion.
`THE WITNESS:
`I don't know what the
`burden would he.
`BY MR. HEFAZI:
`Q. Well, is it something you could just
`download off ofa computer and e-mail?
`A.
`It would not be a problem to produce
`our membership list.
`MR. HEFAZI: Okay. Counsel, we would
`ask for a copy of the membership list.
`MR. MUDD: We can take that up after
`the deposition.
`MR. HEFAZI: Okay.
`BY MR. HEFAZI:
`Q. So has Unified ever been sued for
`patent infringement?
`A. We have not.
`Q. Has Unified ever been threatened with
`patent infringement?
`MR. MUDD: Objection; form.
`
`
`
`
`

`

`
`HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL — ATTORNEYS EYES ONLY PURSUANT
`
`I don't recall being
`THE WITNESS:
`threatened, but I would not be surprised if that
`has happened.
`BY MR. HEFAZI:
`Q. Okay. But as the CEO, you would
`have been made aware if there was a patent
`infringement lawsuit threatened against Unified?
`A. Off the top of my head,1 do
`not recall being threatened with a patent
`infringement lawsuit.
`Q. Okay. So the IPRs that Unified filed,
`that's not to protect Unified against any claim
`of patent infringement, is it?
`MR. MUDD: Objection; form.
`THE WITNESS: Unified files IPRs on
`
`behalf of zones, and some of the technologies
`upon which we file are technologies that Unified
`uses, so
`
`1
`
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`
`BY MR. HEFAZI:
`
`Q. Can you give me any example in which
`this was done?
`MR. MUDD: Objection; form.
`THE WITNESS: Again, we have
`filed over a hundred lPRs.
`I do not recall
`the specific circumstances of all of them. other
`than to say that I know that that fact pattern
`has existed.
`BY MR. HEFAZ]:
`Q. But you can't name a single case,
`party or date on which this occurred?
`MR. MUDD: Objection; form.
`THE WITNESS: As Ijust
`mentioned, over the course of a hundred lPRs,
`
`at this point I can no longer remember the
`specifics of each of those IPRs.
`BY MR. HEFAZI:
`
`
`
`Q. And how did Unified choose to fiie
`19
`BY MR. HEFAZI:
`this IPR?
`20
`Q. Can you name a specific patent that
`MR. MUDD: Objection; form, and
`21
`Unified is concemed about that Unified believes
`objection on the basis of privilege. To the
`22
`might be in the space of its technology?
`extent it calls for privileged information,
`23
`MR. MUDD: Objection; form.
`I'll just caution the witness.
`24
`Objection; speculation.
`THE WITNESS: Off the top of my
`25
`THE. WITNESS: When you refer to this
`
`Page 34
`Page 36
`
`
`
`
`
`
`
`head over the last fiVC years, I do not recall
`a specific one. But Unified has patent portals,
`we have -— or, sorry, web portals, we haVe
`technology, we have logins, we have
`authentication, We have all kinds of technology
`that we employ. And I am certain that Unified
`has filed on patents over the years that relate
`to those specific technologies.
`BY MR. HEFAZI:
`Q. Has Unified ever -- well, strike that.
`So Unified has never filed a IPR in
`response to an assertion of patent infringement
`by an entity against Unified?
`MR. MUDD: Objection; form.
`Objection; calls for a legal conclusion.
`THE WITNESS: Not to my knowledge.
`BY MR. HEFAZI:
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
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`6
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`12
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`16
`17
`
`IPR, what are you referring to?
`BY MR. HEFAZI:
`Q. Sorry. So the current IPR for which
`you're sitting for deposition is 2018—00067, and
`it's Unified Patents versus Universal Secure
`Registry. So when I refer to this IPR, is
`it okay for you to understand that I'm referring
`to the IPR 2018-00067?
`A.
`1 will try to make that clear going
`forward.
`Q. So how did Unified decide to file this
`IPR?
`
`MR. MUDD: Objection; form,
`speculation and privilege. And I would
`caution the witness not to reveal privileged
`information. You can answer to the extent it
`would not do so.
`
`Q. And does Unified —- strike that.
`Has Unified ever filed an IPR on
`a patent that has not been asserted in a
`litigation or other adversarial proceeding?
`A. Yes, we have.
`
`THE WITNESS:—
`18
`19 —
`20—
`21 —
`22
`BY MR. HEFAZI:
`
`Q. Well, so let's start more generally,
`23
`Q. And how often do you do that?
`then. In this case ._ or, more generally, when
`24
`MR. MUDD: Objection; form.
`25
`Unified sees a patent that's asserted -- strike
`25
`THE WITNESS:
`I don't know.
`Page 37
`Page 35
`
`

`

`HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL — ATTORNEYS EYES ONLY PURSUANT
`
`I
`’ 2
`3
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`15
`
`that.
`
`When a patent is asserted against one
`of Unified's members. how does Unified generally
`go about determining whether an IPR needs to be
`filed?
`
`MR. MUDD: Objection; form. And
`objection to the extent it mischaracterizes the
`record.
`THE WITNESS: Unified doesn‘t care
`whether or not a litigation is filed against
`a member or not. The question for Unified is
`whether or not a patent that we've become aware
`of fits the zone or not.
`MR. HEFAZI: Okay. Let me take a
`moment.
`I think we have the exhibits there.
`
`l
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`
`
`
`and goes up to 00024.
`MR. HEFAZI: Correct. And it's a
`Docket Report for May 22nd, 2017.
`BY MR. HEFAZI:
`Q. So this is one of the documents
`your counsel produced, and I think you verified,
`showing your first awareness of the ‘8 l3 patent;
`is that right?
`MR. MUDD: Objection; form. Object
`to the extent it mischaracterizes the record.
`THE WITNESS:
`I believe this is
`the very first e-mail that we received that
`identified the Universal Secured Registry
`litigation.
`BY MR. HEFAZI'.
`
`Q. Okay. Now, a moment ago you said you
`16
`Could you -- could someone
`16
`accept patents based on zone and challenge based
`17
`please hand you the document beginning with
`17
`on zone. So if you could take a look at the
`18
`UNIFIED-USR-00008 Unified's Docket Navigator
`18
`-— you know, let's look at the second page,
`19
`Report. dated May 22nd, 2017?
`19
`the first case that comes up there is Mobile
`20
`MR. MUDD: We're doing that. Give us
`20
`Networking Solutions LLC versus Experian
`21
`one second.
`21
`Information Solutions.
`22
`THE WITNESS: Do you mind while we
`22
`Do you see that?
`23
`find that if I take a break and I get a bio
`23
`A. Are you referring to Unified —-
`24
`break?
`24
`25
`MR. I-IEFAZI: Sure. Let's take a
`25
`Q.
`It's On Page USROUUO9.
`
`Page 38
`
`Page 40
`
`
`
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`
`
`
`break, and then we'll come back.
`THE WITNESS: Thanks.
`(Recess taken.)
`THE WITNESS: We're back.
`BY MR. I-IEFAZI:
`
`Q. Okay. Great. If the document's in
`front of you, perhaps we can begin.
`A.
`It is.
`Q. Okay.
`MR. MUDD: Nima, do you want to mark
`-- do you want to mark it as an exhibit, Nima‘?
`MR. HEFAZI: Yes. Can We mark this as
`-- let's mark it Jackie [sic] Exhibit 1.
`THE WITNESS: You can mark it Jake]
`Exhibit 1.
`
`MR. HEFAZI: Jakel. Sorry about
`
`that.
`
`I‘m
`
`THE WITNESS: That's all right.
`just kidding.
`MR. HEFAZI: Jakel Exhibit 1.
`(Jakel Deposition Exhibit No. l. a
`document Bates Numbered UNIFIED-USR-OOOOS
`through UNIFIED-USR-00024, was marked.)
`MR. MUDD: And just so the record's
`clear, Nima, Exhibit 1 spans UNIFIED-USR-DOGOS
`Page 39
`
`
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`t5
`
`I see that page.
`A. Yes.
`Q. Okay. And you see it says Mobile
`Networking Solutions versus Experian Information
`Solutions?
`A.
`Ido.
`
`Q. And so does -- so this -- you see the
`patents there, they list a couple of patents,
`and they're described as methods and systems for
`a storage system; is that right?
`A. Yes. lsee that.
`Q. And does Unified have a zone directed
`at methods and systems for storage systems?
`MR. MUDD: Objection; form.
`Objection: foundation.
`THE WITNESS:
`
`I believe, without
`
`having taken a look at these patents, it is
`possible, given they say storage system, that
`these patents might read on our cloud zone.
`BY MR. HEFAZI:
`Q. Okay. And so, I guess, maybe more
`generally. when you received this Docket Report,
`would Unified have analyzed every single one of
`these patents to determine whether they fall
`within a zone?
`MR. MUDD: Objection; form.
`
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`
`Page 41
`
`

`

`HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL - ATTORNEYS EYES ONLY PURSUANT
`
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`
`10
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`
`13
`19
`20
`21
`
`It is our practice to
`THE WITNESS:
`look at every litigation that‘s filed, eVery
`day, to see whether or not those litigations
`fall within our zones.
`BY MR. HEFAZI'.
`Q. So woutd it be Unified's practice
`When they receive 3 Docket Report like this, a
`Daily Docket Report, to look at each one of the
`patents?
`
`MR. MUDD: Objection; form.
`THE WITNESS: Imean,1 guess with
`reSpect to this. specifically, I don't know if
`we would look at all of them or at one of them.
`They look like they‘re probably a family.
`I
`can't tell from this, but we would have looked
`at this litigation to see Whether or not it fit
`one of our zones.
`
`BY MR. I-IEFAZI:
`Q. Okay. And if it fit one of your
`zones, you would file a IPR. regardless of the
`member?
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`
`at Page 00009?
`A. We do not file IPRs on litigations. so
`I would answer no to that question.
`Q. Let me clarify. then. Did you file
`IPRs on any of the patents that were asserted
`in the Mobile Networking versus Experian
`Information Solutions case?
`MR. MUDD: Objection; form.
`THE WITNESS:
`I do not believe so.
`
`I 10
`' 11
`12
`1 13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`
`BY MR. HEFAZ]:
`Q. Okay. And what was the reason
`that you decided -- well, strike that.
`Could you help me understand why
`you would have filed on the Universal Secure
`Registry versus Apple matter and not the Mobile
`Networking Solutions versus Experian Information
`Solutions matter?
`
`18
`19
`20
`21
`
`MR. MUDD: Objection; form.
`Objection; speculation, and objection to the
`extent it calls for privilege.
`You can answer to the extent it
`
`
`
`
`
`
`
`
`
`wouldn't reveal privileged information.
`22
`MR. MUDD: Objection; form.
`22
`THE WITNESS:
`I do not recall the
`23
`Objection; speculation. And objection to
`23
`specifics of our analysis of the patent in
`24
`the extent that it's asking for privileged
`24
`25
`information.
`25
`the Mobile Networking Solution case you've
`
`Page 42
`
`Page 44
`
`1
`2
`3
`
`THE WITNESS: Can you repeat the
`question?
`BY MR. HEFAZI:
`
`1
`2
`3
`
`identified on Page 9, or identified with Bates
`Number ending in 9. and the patents in the
`Universal Secured Registry litigation identified
`
`with Bates Number ending in 10.
`Q.— 4
`4
`BY MR- HEFAZI=
`5 — 5
`Q-—
`6 — 6
`7 — 1 —
`s — s —
`9 -
`9
`Q. Okay. And let me ask you, the next
`11)
`MR. MUDD: Objection; form.
`I 10
`case on Page 9 is International Fruit Genetics
`1 1
`THE WITNESS:_ II
`verse Orchard Depot.—
`12 — 12 —
`1:1 — 11 —
`14— 14
`Q. And do you know if Unified filed a [PR
`15 — 15
`in the patent listed in this case?
`16 — 16
`A.
`1 do not believe so.
`17 — 11
`Q- 0111.—
`18
`BY MR. HEFAZI:
`18 _
`19
`Q- Okay.— I 19 —
`20 — l 20
`Q. And do you know if Unified filed an
`21 — 21
`IPR on any of the patents listed here for the
`22
`Let me ask, did you file an IPR on the
`22
`Modern Telecorn Systems versus TCL Corporation
`23
`litigation Styled Mobile Networking Solutions
`23
`matter, that's Patent Number 6,504,886?
`24
`versus Experian Information Solutions that we
`24
`A. Not to my knowledge.
`25
`saw
`25
`Q. Okay. And the next case, Bayer
`Page 45
`Page 43
`
`

`

`HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL — ATTORNEYS EYES ONLY PURSUANT
`
`I do not believe that we have.
`A.
`1
`Intellectual versus Mylan Pharmaceutical]
`1
`Q. And can you tell me, did Unified go
`2 — 2
`about analyzing those patents?
`3 — 3
`A.—
`4
`Q. And to the best of your knowledge, an
`4
`5
`IPR has never been filed on on that case either?
`5 —
`6
`A. Not to my knowledge.
`6 —
`7
`Q. Okay. And just to go back, you know,
`7
`Q. Let me ask you. what factors does
`3
`I think you testified a little bit earlier
`1 8
`Unified take into consideration when deciding to
`9
`-- let the strike that.
`9
`file an IPR?
`
`
`
`Let me ask you, the next case is
`Universal Secure Registry versus Apple, and is
`that —- the first patent listed there, the ‘813
`patent, that IPR was filed -- strike that.
`The IPR in this case was filed against
`the first patent that's listed there, 8,577,813;
`tsthautehtt
`MR. MUDD: Objection; form.
`THE WITNESS: Sorry. When you
`say this case, what are you referring to?
`BY Mia-HEM:
`Q. All right. I'm referring to this
`IPR, 2018-00067, so let me try and clarify.
`So that patent, us 3577.313, that
`patent was fiied -- that -- strike that.
`Unified Patents filed this IPR, IPR
`
`
`
`
`
`A. You are asking in the general sense,
`10
`correct?
`l 1
`Q. Let‘s ask -- yes, let's start with the
`12
`general sense.
`13
`A.—
`14
`15 —
`16 —
`17 —
`18 —
`19 —
`20 —
`21 —
`22 _
`23 —
`24 —
`25 —
`
`Page 48
`
`Page 46
`
`10
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`
`
`
`1 —
`2018-00067 against us. Patent Number 8,577,813
`1
`2 —
`that is listed here on Page ending in Bates
`2
`3 —
`Stamp 10. Do you understand that?
`3
`4_
`A.
`I understand what you said.
`4
`5 —
`Q. Does that reflect your understanding
`5
`6 —
`of what occurred here?
`6
`7—
`MR. MUDD: Objection; form.
`7
`8 —
`THE WITNESS: Are you just
`3
`9 —
`characterizing ~- sorry. I'm not following
`9
`. 10 —
`your question. Are you just characterizing
`10
`n —
`a.--
`u
`12 —
`BY Mia-Ham:
`12
`[3 —
`Q. You know that IPR 2018-0067 was filed
`13
`14 —
`against us. Patent Number $577,313?
`14
`15 —
`A. To be honest, I have not memorized
`15
`16 —
`the IPR number you havejust listed out, but
`16
`l7 —
`if that‘s the [PR we filed against the patent,
`17
`18—
`I will take your word for it.
`18
`19 —
`Q. Okay. I'll represent to you that
`19
`20 —
`you have filed -- this case was filed -— this
`20
`21 —
`IPR, 2013-0067. was filed challenging the '813
`21
`22 —
`patent. And I guess my next question here is do
`22
`23 —
`you know if Unified has filed lPRs against any
`23
`24 —
`ofthe other patents listed here, the '539
`24
`25 _
`patent, ‘326 patent and the '137 patent?
`25
`Page 47 Page 49
`
`
`

`

` i
`
`HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL — ATTORNEYS EYES ONLY PURSUANT
`
`THE WITNESS=_
`1
`l — .
`2 — i 2 —
`3 — i 3 —
`4 — i 4—
`6 _ 1 s —
`6 — 6
`BY MR. HEFAZI:
`7
`Q. Okay. So then looking at these
`7
`Q. Could you list off those that you can
`8
`patents here, was there any reason you decided
`8
`recall?
`9
`not to file on the '539 and ‘826 and '13?
`9
`MR. MUDD: Objection; form.
`10
`patents?
`10
`THE WITNESS:—
`11
`MR. MUDD: Objection; form. Objection
`11 —
`12
`to the extent it calls for privilege.
`12 —
`116
`71421217616661_ 16 —
`14 — 14 —
`1s — 1s —
`16 — 16 -
`17 — 17 —
`16 — 16—
`19 _
`19—
`20
`BY MR- HEFAZI=
`20 —
`21
`Q. Okay. But you would have, generally,
`21 —
`22
`considered those factors that you enumerated; is
`22 —
`23
`that fight?
`23 —
`24
`MR. MUDD: Objection; form.
`24 —
`25
`Objection; calls for privilege. Objection;
`25 —
`Page 52
`
`Page 51
`
`
`
`Page 50
`
`
`
`
`
`
`1 —
`foundation
`1
`THE WITNESS:— 2 _
`2
`3 — 3 _
`4 — 4 —
`s — s _
`6 _
`6 —
`7
`22112-11217621:
`7 — |
`8
`Q. And do you know, one way or another,
`8 — l
`9
`whether the three other patents were analyzed?
`9 — a
`10
`
`MR. MUDD: Objection; form.
` 10 —ll Objection; foundation. 1 l — i
`
`12
`7112 11117611668:_ 12— g
`12 _ 13 —
`14 — 14 —
`1s — 1s _
`16 — 16 —
`17 — 17 —
`16 — 16 —
`16 — 17 _
`2o -
`2o — E
`21
`BY 1711211126421:
`21 _ c
`22
`Q.
`I guess, more generally,then, how
`22 — i
`23
`does Unified go about assessing, you know, the
`23 — |
`24
`deterrence value to a zone?
`24 — I
`25
`MR. MUDD: Objection; form.
`25 — ;
`
`Eage 53“;
`
`

`

`HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL — ATTORNEYS EYES ONLY PURSUANT
`
`Q. Are you testifying that Unified
`— I
`_ 2 P followed --
`MR. MUDD: Nima, can you let him
`— 3
`finish his answer before you answer another
`— 4
`—
`5
`-- or ask another question?
`BY MR. HEFAZI:
`6
`MR. HEFAZI: Certainly.
`7
`Go ahead and finish the answer.
`8
`I didn‘t mean to cut you off.
`9
`THE WITNESS:
`10
`
`Q. So I guess I'm just having a little
`bit of trouble understanding. Is it that you
`deemed the '813 patent -- so you mentioned the
`two —— strike that.
`
`— tt
`— 12
`So do you
`13
`consider the '813 patent to be more relevant to
`14
`15
`the zone than the other three patents?
`MR. MUDD: Objection; privilege.
`Objection; foundation.
`THE WITNESS:
`
`l6
`17
`
`BY MR. HEFAZI:
`
`— 18
`Q. So there seems to be a little bit of
`— 19
`confusion for me. Are you claiming privilege
`— 20
`over the analysis here such that you're saying
`that you don't know whether or you can't testify
`— 21
`— 22
`whether Unified followed those steps and
`— 23
`considered those factors in assessing these
`BY MR. HEFAZI:
`24
`patents, or are you testifying that Unified
`Q. So I should say that,l mean, you
`25
`followed those steps in assessing these patents?
`
`
` Page 56 Page 54
`
`madam-kw“—
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`M(J1
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`MR. MUDD: Objection; form, privilege,
`speculation,foundation.
`THE WITNESS: You asked us whether or
`
`not -- sorry. Let me restart.
`You asked us for some of the general
`considerations for how we look at things, and I
`gave you a list of everything that I could think
`of off the top of my head.
`Thsspsstficnnntysts--
`1st MPHPPAZP
`<2- mm.--