Thomas P. Blackadar
`
`Boston, MA
`
`6/27/2018
`Page 1 (1)
`
` 1 UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`
` 2 BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
` 3
`
` 4
`
` 5
`
` Case IPR2017-02023
`
` Patent 6,434,212
`
` 6 TOMTOM, INC., and TOMTOM )
`
` 7 INTERNATIONAL, B.V., )
`
` 8 Petitioners, )
`
` 9 vs. )
`
` 10 BLACKBIRD TECH LLC, d/b/a )
`
` 11 BLACKBIRD TECHNOLOGIES, )
`
` 12 Patent Owner.
`
` 13
`
` 14
`
` 15 DEPOSITION OF THOMAS P. BLACKADAR
`
` 16 WEDNESDAY - JUNE 27, 2018
`
` 17 9:25 A.M. - 2:22 P.M.
`
` 18
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` 19
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` 20 PEPPER HAMILTON LLP
`
` 21 125 HIGH STREET
`
` 22 BOSTON, MASSACHUSETTS
`
` 23
`
` 24 Reported by: Dawn Mack-Boaden, RPR
`
` 25
`
`1-800-FOR-DEPO
`
`www.AldersonReporting.com
`
`Alderson Court Reporting
`
`TomTom Exhibit 1022, Page 1 of 47
`
`

`

`Thomas P. Blackadar
`
`Boston, MA
`Page 2
`
`6/27/2018
`Page 2 (2 - 5)
`Page 4
`
` 1 APPEARANCES
`
` 2
` 3 ON BEHALF OF THE PATENT OWNER,
` 4 BLACKBIRD TECH LLC, d/b/a BLACKBIRD TECHNOLOGIES:
` 5 Walter D. Davis, Jr., Esquire
` 6 Davidson Berquist Jackson & Gowdey LLP
` 7 8300 Greensboro Drive, Suite 500
`
` 8 McLean, Virginia 22102
` 9 (571) 765-7709
`10 wdavis@dbjg.com
`
`11
`12 ON BEHALF OF THE PETITIONERS, TOMTOM, INC., and
`13 TOMTOM INTERNATIONAL, B.V.:
`14 Dipu A. Doshi, Esquire
`15 BLANK ROME LLP
`16 1825 Eye Street NW
`
`17 Washington, D.C. 20006
`18 (202) 420-2604
`19 ddoshi@blankrome.com
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
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`24
`
`25
`
` 1 P-R-O-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S
` 2
` 3 THOMAS P. BLACKADAR, a witness first
` 4 having been satisfactorily identified by the
` 5 production of his Massachusetts driver's
` 6 license, was sworn and testified as follows:
` 7
` 8 DIRECT EXAMINATION
` 9 BY MR. DAVIS:
`10 Q. Good morning, Mr. Blackadar.
`11 A. Good morning.
`12 Q. So we met each other earlier. I'm Walter
`13 Davis. It's nice to meet you.
`14 Do you understand that you're here to
`15 provide testimony related to a particular -- an IPR?
`16 A. Yes.
`17 Q. And that's IPR 2017-02023. That's the
`18 number.
`19 Could you state your name for the record.
`20 A. Thomas Blackadar.
`21 Q. And, Mr. Blackadar, have you ever had your
`22 deposition taken before?
`23 A. I have.
`24 Q. How many times?
`25 A. Twice.
`
`Page 3
`
`Page 5
` 1 Q. Twice. Okay. What were those two times?
` 2 A. One was Nike v. Adidas, and the other one
` 3 was Reebok v. FitSense; and that was a contract
` 4 matter, the second one.
` 5 Q. I'll get to that in a second.
` 6 So the Nike v. Adidas, what kind of case
` 7 was that?
` 8 A. They were -- Nike was suing or whatever,
` 9 infringement -- infringement suing, I guess is the
`10 word -- it was back in 2006 -- on a patent that I
`11 had sold to Nike, and so I was being interviewed
`12 about that.
`13 Q. Okay. So you were deposed as a fact
`14 witness?
`15 A. Uh-huh.
`16 Q. And when did you say that was?
`17 A. I believe it was 2006.
`18 Q. And the Reebok v. FitSense. FitSense:
`19 That's your company?
`20 A. That was my company. I was CEO.
`21 Q. That was your company. And that was --
`22 that was a contract dispute, you said?
`23 A. It was.
`24 Q. And when was that deposition?
`25 A. I'm going to say it was somewhere right
`Alderson Court Reporting
`
` 1 INDEX
` 2 EXAMINATION PAGE
` 3 THOMAS P. BLACKADAR
` 4 By Mr. Davis 4
` 5 By Mr. Doshi 111
` 6
`
` 7
` 8 EXHIBIT INDEX
` 9 NO. DESCRIPTION PAGE
`10 1021: Curriculum Vitae 12
`11
`
`12
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`13
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`14
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`15
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`16
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`17
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`18
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`19
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`20
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`21
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`22
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`23
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`24
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`25
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`1-800-FOR-DEPO
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`www.AldersonReporting.com
`
`TomTom Exhibit 1022, Page 2 of 47
`
`

`

`Thomas P. Blackadar
`
`Boston, MA
`Page 6
`
`6/27/2018
`Page 3 (6 - 9)
`Page 8
`
` 1 around 2000.
` 1 provide truthful testimony today?
` 2 Q. Somewhere around 2000?
` 2 A. There's no reason.
` 3 A. Yeah.
` 3 Q. That's the answer I would expect. One
` 4 Q. Okay. So it's been quite some time
` 4 thing -- and I'm not sure -- you may or may not be
` 5 since --
` 5 aware of this, but one of the rules associated with
` 6 A. Yes.
` 6 IPRs in general, but certainly this IPR specifically
` 7 Q. -- your last deposition, bottom line.
` 7 too, is when we take breaks, certainly you're going
` 8 I'll try to make this as painless as
` 8 to be talking with your attorney, but the one thing
` 9 possible today. Since it has been some time since
` 9 you can't talk about is the substance of your
`10 your last deposition, I want to go over a few of
`10 testimony unless there is an outstanding question
`11 just the basic rules, which I'm sure your attorney
`11 about attorney-client privilege, which I doubt there
`12 did as well.
`12 will be in this case. Does that make sense?
`13 So we're here today; essentially, today's
`13 A. Yes.
`14 procedure is going to be a question and answer
`14 Q. I have this little --
`15 session. I'm going to ask you questions, and, you
`15 MR. DOSHI: We can agree to that.
`16 know, you'll provide me with answers to the best of
`16 BY MR. DAVIS:
`17 your ability.
`17 Q. There's a little rule here, but I don't --
`18 One thing when you provide answers, please
`18 this is not an exhibit. I just wanted to make sure
`19 make sure that they're audible so that the court
`19 that you understood that so that there's no
`20 reporter can understand. And that means in two
`20 confusion.
`21 ways. 1. Certainly speak up; but it also means to
`21 A. It was explained to me by my attorney.
`22 do more than simply nod or shake your head.
`22 Q. Great. I thought it might be.
`23 Actually say what -- what the answer is.
`23 Mr. Blackadar, what did you do to prepare
`24 And sometimes that gets tough because
`24 for your testimony today?
`25 that's not necessarily the way that we talk to each
`25 A. I -- it's been a year since I -- almost a
`Page 9
`Page 7
` 1 other as people. But we'll get used to it. Maybe
` 1 year since I did the declaration. And so I -- last
` 2 that's unfortunate, but we will.
` 2 week when we understood that there was a date, I
` 3 Let's try not to talk over each other.
` 3 went through and -- all of the literature, the court
` 4 Again, sometimes that also gets tough because when
` 4 documents, everything that's happened since last
` 5 you have a conversation, that naturally happens; but
` 5 year, and re-reviewed the patents. And yesterday I
` 6 let's try to do a good job of not talking over each
` 6 met with Dipu to just go over and prep for this
` 7 other. And that goes for me as well.
` 7 meeting.
` 8 We can and will -- we will take several
` 8 Q. Okay. And when you say you went over the
` 9 breaks throughout the course of today's session.
` 9 materials, did that include -- that includes the
`10 Typically, I like to take breaks about every hour.
`10 petition?
`11 If for some reason you need a break before that,
`11 A. Yes.
`12 please let me know, and we'll take a break. The one
`12 Q. Your declaration?
`13 thing that I would ask is if I have an outstanding
`13 A. Yes.
`14 question, answer it before we actually take a break.
`14 Q. The prior art you cited in your
`15 Okay?
`15 declaration?
`16 A. Okay.
`16 A. Yes.
`17 Q. And we've already -- try as I may, my
`17 Q. Does it include Blackbird's preliminary
`18 questions are not always perfectly phrased, and I'm
`18 response?
`19 sure your attorney will have something to say about
`19 A. Yes.
`20 that if they are really bad.
`20 Q. Does it include the institution's decision
`21 That said, if you don't understand a
`21 by the board?
`22 question of mine, please let me know, and I'll try
`22 A. Yes.
`23 to reform it in a way that's more understandable.
`23 Q. Okay. Are there any other big ticket items
`24 Is there any reason, whether that be
`24 that I'm missing?
`25 sickness or otherwise, that you won't be able to
`25 Well, if there are any that are relevant,
`Alderson Court Reporting
`
`1-800-FOR-DEPO
`
`www.AldersonReporting.com
`
`TomTom Exhibit 1022, Page 3 of 47
`
`

`

`Thomas P. Blackadar
`
`6/27/2018
`Page 4 (10 - 13)
`Page 12
`
`Boston, MA
`Page 10
` 1 I'm sure they'll come up in the course of questions.
` 2 But it includes at least --
` 3 A. Yes.
` 4 Q. At least those documents; right?
` 5 And when you met with your attorney, that
` 6 was just yesterday?
` 7 A. Yes.
` 8 Q. And how long did you meet?
` 9 A. Probably five to six hours.
`10 Q. Okay. How long in total, including the
`11 meeting yesterday, would you say you spent preparing
`12 for today's deposition?
`13 A. Sixteen hours.
`14 Q. Sixteen hours.
`15 A. Just shy. Good enough.
`16 Q. Pretty precise. Okay. Mr. Blackadar, this
`17 is -- for our purposes and the court reporter's
`18 purposes, most of the exhibits already have exhibit
`19 numbers from the IPR. So we're not going to need to
`20 mark most of them. There may be one or two. Okay.
`21 So I'm going to hand you a copy of your
`22 declaration, which is Exhibit 1005.
`23 MR. DAVIS: I have a copy here if you
`24 want it or you can just use --
`25 MR. DOSHI: I'll just use mine.
`
` 1 and we can go from there.
` 2 MR. DAVIS: I'll take copies. I have --
` 3 that will probably be easier. I have copies
` 4 of his CV from another IPR that you did
` 5 earlier in 2017, but if your attorney has
` 6 copies that we already know to be accurate,
` 7 then let's take those.
` 8 MR. DOSHI: Okay. Do you want to mark
` 9 these?
`10 MR. DAVIS: Yes.
`11 ***************************************
`12 (Exhibit Number 1021 was marked for
`13 identification.)
`14 ***************************************
`15 BY MR. DAVIS:
`16 Q. Mr. Blackadar, you have in front of you
`17 what has been marked as Exhibit 1021. Is this your
`18 current CV?
`19 A. Yes, sir.
`20 Q. Current as of today?
`21 A. Yes, sir.
`22 Q. Okay. Looking at your CV, I see you have a
`23 BS in electrical engineering and computer science
`24 from the University of New Hampshire?
`25 A. Yes, sir.
`
`Page 11
`
`Page 13
` 1 Q. With a concentration of biomedical and a
` 1 MR. DAVIS: Okay.
` 2 minor in history; is that right?
` 2 BY MR. DAVIS:
` 3 A. Yes, sir.
` 3 Q. This is your declaration, correct,
` 4 Q. Did any of your studies relate to motion
` 4 Exhibit 1005?
` 5 tracking, motion analysis, or inertial sensing?
` 5 A. Yes, it is.
` 6 A. My physics courses taught me about inertial
` 6 Q. And if we could turn to -- it's page 4,
` 7 navigation. That's it.
` 7 Paragraph 3.
` 8 Q. Is that it?
` 8 A. Page?
` 9 A. Yes.
` 9 Q. It's Paragraph 3 of your declaration, which
`10 Q. How about -- how about signal analysis?
`10 is on page 4. It's page 4 of 87, but then there are
`11 A. Many courses on signal analysis from
`11 also paragraph numbers.
`12 communications to acoustics, and I took a course on
`12 A. Okay. Here we go.
`13 signal to noise.
`13 Q. So the first sentence there indicates that
`14 Q. That's a pretty good memory.
`14 your CV is attached as Attachment A to the
`15 A. Yeah.
`15 declaration.
`16 Q. I don't think I could recite many of the
`16 A. Yes.
`17 courses I took in college.
`17 Q. And I didn't actually see your CV attached
`18 So -- sorry?
`18 to the declaration in just flipping through it.
`19 A. No. I think that's it.
`19 But -- go ahead.
`20 Q. Okay.
`20 MR. DOSHI: It was inadvertently
`21 A. Probably a few more that I'm missing.
`21 admitted from the exhibit.
`22 Q. The first -- looking at your work
`22 MR. DAVIS: I understand, and I'm not
`23 experience now, the first item that you have going
`23 making a big deal out of it.
`24 all the way back is BBN Computer Company from 1982
`24 MR. DOSHI: I do have copies if you want
`25 to '86.
`25 them now, or you can just ask him questions
`Alderson Court Reporting
`
`1-800-FOR-DEPO
`
`www.AldersonReporting.com
`
`TomTom Exhibit 1022, Page 4 of 47
`
`

`

`Thomas P. Blackadar
`
`Boston, MA
`Page 14
`
`6/27/2018
`Page 5 (14 - 17)
`Page 16
`
` 1 A. Yes, sir.
` 2 Q. Where you were a senior -- a test engineer?
` 3 A. Yes, sir.
` 4 Q. And did any of your work experience there
` 5 have to do with motion tracking, motion analysis, or
` 6 inertial sensing?
` 7 A. At BBN at the computer company as a test
` 8 engineer, no.
` 9 Q. Okay. And how about signal analysis?
`10 A. Yes.
`11 Q. In what sense for signal analysis?
`12 A. There is a technique in troubleshooting and
`13 developing test fixtures that one would actually
`14 inject signals into a circuit card and then read
`15 them back.
`16 It has evolved since 1983/'84 into a fairly
`17 large industry, and they call it Quinepro.
`18 Q. And moving -- moving on up to BBN Advanced
`19 Computers from 1986 to 1991, director of operations.
`20 What did you do as director of operations
`21 at BBN Advanced Computers?
`22 A. I ran the support group, the manufacturing
`23 group, and sustaining engineer group. That was my
`24 final position at BBN Advanced Computers.
`25 I started off as a -- just a systems
`
`Page 15
`
` 1 A. Yes.
` 2 Q. In what sense?
` 3 A. One of the DARPA projects that we did was
` 4 called the personal inertia navigation system where
` 5 we measured -- put sensors on the body, in
` 6 particular on the leg/ankle, and measured a person's
` 7 location in free space as they walked around a
` 8 building. We telemetered it back to a map, and we
` 9 were able to effectively follow somebody in a
`10 building from outside the building and know which
`11 floor they were on, which stairwell they were in,
`12 all by an inertial navigation system.
`13 Q. And when was that DARPA project?
`14 A. That was '95 through '97.
`15 Q. Okay.
`16 A. Dr. Lawrence Sheer was my program manager
`17 for that -- well, project engineer -- my Ph.D. doing
`18 it.
`19 Q. Anything else provide -- during that time
`20 period as the advanced network department manager,
`21 did anything else provide you with experience in
`22 motion tracking, motion analysis, or inertial
`23 sensing?
`24 A. Yes. There was a counter sniper program
`25 which was effectively using -- detecting where a
`Page 17
`
` 1 engineer and then worked my way on up.
` 2 Q. And did any of that work experience as just
` 3 for this entry, the director of operations, provide
` 4 you with experience in motion tracking, motion
` 5 analysis, or inertial sensing?
` 6 A. No, sir.
` 7 Q. How about signal analysis?
` 8 A. Just as it pertained to debugging hardware.
` 9 Q. Okay. Your next experience at BBN it says
`10 BBN Technologies Advanced Networking Department
`11 Manager, '91 to '97.
`12 And what did you do as the advanced
`13 networking department manager?
`14 A. I did all of the -- I was in charge of all
`15 of the manufacturing for all of BBN, sustaining the
`16 support group, sustaining the products in the field,
`17 and running the advanced networking group; and most
`18 of that was consulting work for the Defense Advanced
`19 Research Projects Agency.
`20 I wrote proposals, architected crafty
`21 things that we thought DARPA might want, and
`22 delivered on it.
`23 Q. And did any of that provide you with
`24 experience in motion tracking, motion analysis, or
`25 inertial sensing?
`
` 1 shot came from using acoustic waveforms,
` 2 triangulation, and then trajectory.
` 3 Q. Okay. Other than the DARPA project and the
` 4 sniper project, was there anything else in that time
` 5 frame as the advanced networking department manager
` 6 that provided you experience in motion tracking,
` 7 motion analysis, or inertial sensing?
` 8 A. Not that I can recall.
` 9 Q. Okay.
`10 A. I do recall there was one other one. It
`11 was a project out of the U.S. ARIEM, the Army
`12 Research Institute for Environmental Medicine.
`13 We worked for -- did a project to harden
`14 one of Dr. Hoyt's -- who was the inventor -- shoe
`15 sensors to measure a person as they were walking;
`16 measuring the contact time on the ground. So we did
`17 a hardened sensor for him.
`18 Q. And when was that?
`19 A. 1996. Completed it in June.
`20 MR. DOSHI: Can you repeat back the
`21 answer before that one.
`22 ***************************************
`23 (The answer was read back as follows:
`24 "I do recall there was one other one. It
`25 was a project out of the U.S. ARIEM, the
`Alderson Court Reporting
`
`1-800-FOR-DEPO
`
`www.AldersonReporting.com
`
`TomTom Exhibit 1022, Page 5 of 47
`
`

`

`Thomas P. Blackadar
`
`6/27/2018
`Page 6 (18 - 21)
`Page 20
` 1 Q. All right. And what do you mean by contact
` 2 time from on top of the foot?
` 3 A. With Dr. Hoyt, we had actually done contact
` 4 time under the foot, right, which is the traditional
` 5 way; and I wanted --
` 6 Q. That was the hardened --
` 7 A. Yes.
` 8 Q. -- sensor?
` 9 A. Yes, sir.
`10 Q. Okay.
`11 A. And so on top of the foot, could I get the
`12 reflective waveform which -- of the -- of the foot
`13 contact time by seeing the force hit the ground, and
`14 would the accelerometer provide me information on
`15 doing that.
`16 Q. What's an accelerometer?
`17 A. An accelerometer is anything from a
`18 pendulum which is -- reacts to the forces of gravity
`19 and/or motion.
`20 And so, typically -- now -- today they're
`21 all silicon devices. There were only a few back in
`22 1997. And prior to that, they were inertial devices
`23 with springs or pendulums and stuff that would
`24 actually be calibrated to work against the forces of
`25 gravity.
`
`Boston, MA
`Page 18
` 1 Army Research Institute for Environmental
` 2 Medicine. We worked for -- did a project to
` 3 harden one of Dr. Hoyt's -- who was the
` 4 inventor -- shoe sensors to measure a person
` 5 as they were walking; measuring the contact
` 6 time on the ground. So we did a hardened
` 7 sensor for him.")
` 8 ***************************************
` 9 BY MR. DAVIS:
`10 Q. And you said hardened sensor. What's a
`11 hardened sensor?
`12 A. Dr. Hoyt wanted a -- hardened sensor means
`13 that you could put it under your foot and step on
`14 it.
`15 Q. Okay.
`16 A. So, yeah, there's very -- there's several
`17 meanings of hardened, but that one was we put it in
`18 the aluminum case, then brought the pressure sensors
`19 out and put them inside.
`20 Q. You were at BBN from 1982 to 1997; correct?
`21 A. Correct.
`22 Q. And then after that, you started a company
`23 called FitSense Technology?
`24 A. Yes, sir. The first incorporation was
`25 Personal Electronic Devices, Incorporated. We
`Page 19
` 1 changed the name in 1998 towards the end of the
` 1 Q. What do you mean by calibrated?
` 2 year, as per my board of advisors' recommendation.
` 2 A. In this sense, you need to understand --
` 3 MR. DAVIS: Could you repeat that
` 3 you need to actually design and build a -- if we're
` 4 answer, please.
` 4 doing a spring tension one, you have to put the
` 5 ***************************************
` 5 right amount of force on the right amount of mass.
` 6 (The answer was read back as follows:
` 6 So this all goes back to physics.
` 7 "Yes, sir. The first incorporation was
` 7 But, basically, that's what I mean by
` 8 Personal Electronic Devices, Incorporated.
` 8 calibrate in that instance. You have to actually,
` 9 We changed the name in 1998 towards the end
` 9 you know, design it such that it works and the
`10 of the year, as per my board of advisors'
`10 calibration is in the design.
`11 recommendation.")
`11 Q. The technology that's on top of the foot,
`12 ***************************************
`12 how did you refer to it again?
`13 BY MR. DAVIS:
`13 A. The accelerometer on top of the foot.
`14 Q. How large was your board of advisors?
`14 Q. Yeah; the accelerometer on top of the foot.
`15 A. It was three people: Michael Holly,
`15 A. I was looking for the reflective footstep,
`16 Charlie Layton, Tom Stark.
`16 if that's -- the reflective force signal from the
`17 Q. And when you started your company -- your
`17 footstep.
`18 CV says you started the company in your basement.
`18 Q. What's the reflective force signal?
`19 Was it just -- was it originally just you?
`19 A. The reflective force signal is the heel
`20 A. It was. When BBN was sold in January of
`20 down, toe off signal. It's a waveform.
`21 1997, I went out and wanted to see if I could
`21 Q. Okay.
`22 achieve getting contact time from on top of the
`22 A. One must do signal analysis to understand
`23 foot.
`23 what the signal looks like.
`24 I, at that time, said if I can do this, I
`24 Q. And that's -- what other technology did you
`25 can get a patent for this; I can start a business.
`25 work on at FitSense, if any?
`Alderson Court Reporting
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`Page 21
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`1-800-FOR-DEPO
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`www.AldersonReporting.com
`
`TomTom Exhibit 1022, Page 6 of 47
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`

`

`Thomas P. Blackadar
`
`6/27/2018
`Page 7 (22 - 25)
`Page 24
`
`Boston, MA
`Page 22
` 1 A. Low-power wireless technology, heart rate
` 2 technology, GPS technology, pulse oximetry,
` 3 telephony.
` 4 Q. Anything else?
` 5 A. Cloud server applications, fitness
` 6 applications, employee wellness programs, access
` 7 points, multiple activity monitors, children shoe
` 8 games, watches, watch network products, and fitness
` 9 gym radio communications to treadmills and the like.
`10 Q. I guess you were busy.
`11 A. Good part of in my life.
`12 Q. Pulse oximetry. That was the only term I
`13 think I didn't really --
`14 A. Didn't know it?
`15 Q. I didn't know it.
`16 A. That's -- you've seen the finger monitors
`17 that say your -- it's, again, doing the waveform and
`18 analysis on that.
`19 Q. Okay. That was my guess, but I wasn't --
`20 that's all it was. So FitSense Technology from 1997
`21 to 2007.
`22 And on your CV going further up is FitLinxx
`23 from 2007 to 2015. Could you -- what happened
`24 there? FitLinxx was a separate company that merged
`25 with FitSense; is that right?
`
` 1 let's go back first to FitSense Technology.
` 2 A. Sure.
` 3 Q. You filed patent applications prior to
` 4 FitLinxx; correct?
` 5 A. Yes, sir. So it was the second. 1997 was
` 6 my first patent application. I was involved in four
` 7 other patent applications, though not a named
` 8 inventor on the patents, back at BBN.
` 9 Q. Okay.
`10 A. But I was -- as the project manager, I had
`11 to help push and translate the science with the
`12 patent attorneys over at Hale & Dorr.
`13 Q. Do you know whether or not those BBN patent
`14 applications actually became patents?
`15 A. I know that one of them did not, and I know
`16 that three of them did.
`17 Q. Okay. The three that did, what, generally,
`18 did they relate to?
`19 A. Low-power wireless technology.
`20 The one that didn't was involved with
`21 personal inertial navigation.
`22 And there's a Richardson patent in 1974
`23 that predated it and predates most or the art --
`24 Q. Okay.
`25 A. -- that people are using today.
`
`Page 25
`Page 23
` 1 Q. Okay. So, FitLinxx, you said that they --
` 1 A. Yeah; they were about four times bigger
` 2 they sold the company in 2015 or 2016 --
` 2 than us, but we did a radio project with them
` 3 A. That's when the -- that's when the letter
` 3 because they were doing the fitness equipment in the
` 4 of intent, all the terms were set, and then it just
` 4 gyms. I was doing, at that point in time, employee
` 5 took its business cycle. I left in August.
` 5 wellness programs.
` 6 Q. And -- and, at that point, you became a
` 6 And that market was just starting off and
` 7 full-time consultant?
` 7 we were going -- I could see that it was going to
` 8 A. I formed FitSense Technology Limited
` 8 take a while for us to get there; and with a bigger
` 9 Liability Corporation.
` 9 brother, we would end up having a better chance of,
`10 Q. Okay.
`10 you know, growing and get more funding without
`11 A. They gave me the name. I took it.
`11 having to go out to the VCs. And it was a really
`12 Q. Okay. Fit --
`12 nice merger.
`13 A. Because of the --
`13 In 2015, they sold the company -- the
`14 Q. FitSense gave you your name back,
`14 transaction actually happened in 2016, but me being
`15 basically?
`15 an executive, I said, okay, I'm going to kick back
`16 A. They gave me my name back back in 2010.
`16 and relax; you don't need me here anymore.
`17 Q. Okay. And what consulting services have
`17 Q. I see under your FitLinxx entry that you
`18 you -- have you done as FitSense Technology, LLC?
`18 had two different positions: CEO and CTO?
`19 A. I have done consulting for three companies,
`19 A. Correct.
`20 one of them being ANGLER Tech; another, Shimmer
`20 Q. And as CTO, you, among other things,
`21 Research; and another, Third Pole Incorporated.
`21 provided new platform architectures and generated
`22 And I have done, as you have found, IPR
`22 over 15 new patent applications and established a
`23 consulting and such.
`23 successful licensing program?
`24 Q. Okay. With the IPR consulting, how many
`24 A. Yes.
`25 IPRs have you worked on?
`25 Q. With respect to the patent applications,
`Alderson Court Reporting
`
`1-800-FOR-DEPO
`
`www.AldersonReporting.com
`
`TomTom Exhibit 1022, Page 7 of 47
`
`

`

`Thomas P. Blackadar
`
`6/27/2018
`Page 8 (26 - 29)
`Page 28
`
`Boston, MA
`Page 26
` 1 A. I don't have the exact number, but let me
` 2 look here and I can probably -- I'd like to say it's
` 3 three. It might be four. I'd have to go back into
` 4 my records and look.
` 5 Q. There are at least these two. Well,
` 6 there's 2023 and 2025. 2025 was not instituted, but
` 7 you worked on that too.
` 8 A. Uh-huh.
` 9 Q. All right. So those two. Maybe a couple
`10 of other ones or --
`11 A. Can I refer to my phone?
`12 Q. It's not crucial.
`13 A. Okay.
`14 Q. So you don't need to refer to your phone.
`15 A. I've got my billing log on the phone and I
`16 could actually cull out all the clients.
`17 Q. Okay. Have you ever -- so that's IPR.
`18 Have you ever worked on -- as an expert on a patent
`19 infringement case?
`20 A. The Nike one I was to go to eastern court
`21 of -- the eastern court of Texas.
`22 Q. Eastern district?
`23 A. Eastern district.
`24 Q. Sure.
`25 A. And the night before I was getting on the
`Page 27
` 1 plane, they settled. I was well prepped, everything
` 2 else; but that would have been my only time to have
` 3 been on the witness stand.
` 4 Q. Believe me, that's better to get the call
` 5 before you're on the plane than after. And that has
` 6 happened to me while I'm on the plane.
` 7 A. I can imagine.
` 8 Q. Okay. The last entry here -- and this is
` 9 all background. The last entry here, Third Pole
`10 Therapeutics. What's that?
`11 A. It's a new medical device company. They
`12 hired me as a consultant to come in and look at
`13 their architecture and look at their team. And I
`14 had so much fun, they hired me.
`15 It is a Class II medical device. I did
`16 manage to get an accelerometer in the design, but
`17 it's just for orientation to tell if somebody tipped
`18 it over or dropped it.
`19 Q. What's a Class II medical device?
`20 A. Class II medical means it has to go through
`21 a pretty rigorous FDA. We will do a 510(k) filing,
`22 but it means that it's there to help save, preserve
`23 -- or preserve life.
`24 So what we do is it provides a therapeutic
`25 treatment for patients that cures them.
`
` 1 Q. That sounds great. Good luck.
` 2 You can put your CV aside. And if you
` 3 could put your declaration back in front of you.
` 4 And this is -- this is a copy of the
` 5 petition for this IPR.
` 6 A. Okay.
` 7 MR. DAVIS: Counsel, I assume you have
` 8 it?
` 9 MR. DOSHI: I do.
`10 MR. DAVIS: Okay.
`11 BY MR. DAVIS:
`12 Q. And you reviewed the petition when you were
`13 preparing for the deposition?
`14 A. Yes.
`15 Q. That's what you said.
`16 If you could turn to -- it's page -- now I
`17 see why you're confused on the pages for your
`18 declaration. So I'll go by paragraphs. Paragraph
`19 36 of your declaration.
`20 MR. DOSHI: So maybe we should just use
`21 page numbers and then the paragraph numbers.
`22 And we'll use these numbers.
`23 MR. DAVIS: The one in the middle of the
`24 page, the bottom -- bottom middle. Okay.
`25 As opposed to exhibit page. That's fine.
`
`Page 29
`
` 1 THE WITNESS: I'm on 15-36.
` 2 BY MR. DAVIS:
` 3 Q. Okay. So as your counsel suggested, I
` 4 think what we'll do when I'm directing you to
` 5 certain portions is I'll refer to the page number in
` 6 the middle at the bottom of the page there and also
` 7 the paragraph number.
` 8 And then in the petition, page 16 at the
` 9 top of the page, first paragraph. Are you there?
`10 A. I am here. I'm sorry.
`11 Q. Okay. So these paragraphs relate to the
`12 level of ordinary skill in the art. Do you see
`13 that?
`14 A. Yes, sir.
`15 Q. And the petition provides a definition for
`16 a person having ordinary skill in the art, and you
`17 also provide your opinion in terms of what a person
`18 having ordinary skill in the art would be.
`19 Your definition in Paragraph 36 appears to
`20 very slightly differ from the definition of level of
`21 ordinary skill in the art in the petition just in
`22 that -- I won't keep it as a surprise.
`23 So in the petition, there's an indication
`24 that a person having ordinary skill in the art of
`25 the '212 patent as of October 1998 would have been a
`Alderson Court Reporting
`
`1-800-FOR-DEPO
`
`www.AldersonReporting.com
`
`TomTom Exhibit 1022, Page 8 of 47
`
`

`

`Thomas P. Blackadar
`
`Boston, MA
`Page 30
` 1 person with a bachelor's degree in mechanical
` 2 engineering, electrical engineering, etc., etc.,
` 3 etc.
` 4 In your declaration, you do not provide the
` 5 qualifier of having that experience in education as
` 6 of October of 1998. Do you see that?
` 7 MR. DOSHI: Could you repeat that?
` 8 MR. DAVIS: That wasn't good.
` 9 Let me do it this way. It will be a bit
`10 longwinded, but it will be more clear.
`11 BY MR. DAVIS:
`12 Q. Mr. Blackadar, in Paragraph 36 of your
`13 declaration, you indicate that a person having
`14 ordinary skill in the art in the field of the '212
`15 patent would have been a person with a bachelor's
`16 degree in mechanical engineering, electrical
`17 engineering, or a similar field with at least two
`18 years of experience in motion tracking, motion
`19 analysis, inertial sensing, or signal analysis, or a
`20 person with a master's degree in mechanical
`21 engineering, electrical engineering, or a similar
`22 field with a specialization in motion tracking,
`23 motion analysis, inertial sensing, or signal
`24 analysis. Do you see that?
`25 A. I see that.
`
`6/27/2018
`Page 9 (30 - 33)
`Page 32
` 1 internet has made things much easier to get into the
` 2 game.
` 3 Q. In your opinion, would somebody today with
` 4 the lesser level of education and experience to
` 5 which you referred, would that person have enough
` 6 education and/or experience to be able to provide
` 7 informed opinions on the subject matter of your
` 8 declaration?
` 9 A. Not as I just described.
`10 Q. Could you explain that?
`11 A. I was thinking of my statement and -- where
`12 I just qualified somebody. I'm not sure they would
`13 have the analytical skills to do the anal