IPR2017-02018
`Exhibit 2014
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`Conference Call
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`Ruiz Food Products, Inc., Petitioner vs. Macropoint, LLC, Patent
`Owner
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`September 21st, 2018
`
`Western Reserve Building
`1468 West 9th Street, Suite 440
`Cleveland, OH 44113
`Phone: 216.861.9270
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`cadystaff@cadyreporting.com
`www.cadyreporting.com
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`

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`Conference Call 9/21/2018
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`1
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`UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`
`BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`RUIZ FOOD PRODUCTS, INC.,
`
`Petitioner,
`
`)
`)
`) Case IPR2017-020161
`) (Patent 8,275,358 B1)
`)
`) Case IPR2017-02018
`) (Patent 9,429,659 B1)
`)
`Patent Owner. )
`)
`
`vs.
`
`MACROPOINT, LLC,
`
`- - - - -
`Before MEREDITH C. PETRAVICK, TREVOR M. JEFFERSON,
`and NATHAN A. ENGELS,
`- - - - -
`
`The telephonic hearing, taken before me, the
`
`undersigned, Tracy Lam, Notary Public within and for
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`the State of Ohio, taken via speakerphone at the
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`offices of Cady Reporting Services, 1468 West 9th
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`Street, Cleveland, Ohio, commencing at 11:00 a.m., the
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`day and date above set forth.
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`CADY REPORTING SERVICES, INC. 216-861-9270
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`Conference Call 9/21/2018
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`2
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`1 APPEARANCES:
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`2
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`3 On behalf of the Petitioner (via speakerphone):
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`4 James Murphy, Esq.
` Ryan Murphy, Esq.
`5
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`6
` On behalf of the Patent Owner (via speakerphone):
`7
` Kyle B. Fleming, Esq.
`8 Luis Carrion, Esq.
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`9
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`Conference Call 9/21/2018
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`3
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`1 MR. MURPHY: Good morning, Your
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`2 Honor. On behalf of Petitioner you have James
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`3 Murphy and Ryan Murphy, both with Polsinelli.
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`4 MR. FLEMING: Good morning. On
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`5 behalf of Patent Owner this is Kyle Fleming.
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`6 MR. CARRION: And Luis Carrion is
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`7 also on the line.
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`8 MR. FLEMING: And I believe we
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`9 also have a court reporter on the line.
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`10 PATENT JUDGE: Thank you.
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`11 Patent Owner, I believe you requested the
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`12 call regarding -- or a request to file a motion
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`13 to dismiss.
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`14 Let's begin with Patent Owner. Please
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`15 explain your position.
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`16 MR. FLEMING: Sure. The Federal
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`17 Circuit recently issued a en banc ruling in a
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`18 case called "Click to Call vs. Ingenio" in
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`19 which it reversed what had been the board's
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`20 presidential and informative decision that a
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`21 prior action is voluntarily dismissed did not
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`22 count with respect to the Section 315(b) bar
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`23 for filing of petition.
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`24 In this case prior to the petitions being
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`25 filed by Ruiz, a real party in interest,
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`CADY REPORTING SERVICES, INC. 216-861-9270
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`Conference Call 9/21/2018
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`4
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`1 FourKites had filed a declaratory judgment
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`2 action challenging the validity of these
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`3 patents. Now, that case had been dismissed
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`4 without prejudice prior to the filing of the
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`5 petitions. So based on the presidential and
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`6 informative decisions at that time, that case
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`7 was not considered for purposes of the 315 bar.
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`8 However, it's Patent Owner's position
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`9 that now you have Click to Call, the prior
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`10 declaratory judgment filing is a bar to the
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`11 action and the Petitioner lacks standing and
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`12 the board lacks jurisdiction to continue.
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`13 PATENT JUDGE: Petitioner, we
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`14 understand from your e-mail that you have posed
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`15 the request to file a motion.
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`16 Can you explain your position, please?
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`17 MR. MURPHY: Yes, Your Honor.
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`18 The Click to Call decision is only about
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`19 315(b), it's not about 315(a)(1), which would
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`20 be the statute at issue here. In Click to
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`21 Call, and numerous other cases, the Federal
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`22 Circuit has specifically pointed out the
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`23 difference between service of the complaint and
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`24 the filing of an action, which is precisely the
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`25 difference between 315(b) and 315(a)(1). So in
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`CADY REPORTING SERVICES, INC. 216-861-9270
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`Conference Call 9/21/2018
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`5
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`1 our view we don't see the Click to Call
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`2 decision as having the applicability that
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`3 Patent Owner seems to contend with regard to
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`4 315(a)(1).
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`5 In addition to that, we would also note
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`6 that there is a number of other sort of factual
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`7 scenarios relative to a declaratory judgment
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`8 action that could affect the scope of that with
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`9 regard to 315(a)(1); and would also preclude
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`10 its application in this case.
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`11 PATENT JUDGE: Can you explain
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`12 what you mean by that?
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`13 MR. MURPHY: Yeah. There are
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`14 issues related to the subject matter
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`15 jurisdiction of that declaratory judgment
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`16 action if it should be treated as a
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`17 counterclaim; and either one of those as
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`18 examples would preclude the application of
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`19 315(a)(1).
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`20 PATENT JUDGE: And so I guess
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`21 just to be clear, is it -- I understand in the
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`22 petition FourKites was termed a real-party in
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`23 interest for the avoidance of data.
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`24 Is it petitioner's position that
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`25 FourKites is, in fact, a real party in
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`CADY REPORTING SERVICES, INC. 216-861-9270
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`Conference Call 9/21/2018
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`6
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`1 interest? That's not a point of contention.
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`2 MR. MURPHY: That's correct,
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`3 Your Honor. FourKites is a real party in
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`4 interest and they were named, as you noted, in
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`5 the petition as such.
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`6 PATENT JUDGE: Patent Owner, do
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`7 you want to respond to Petitioner's position?
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`8 MR. FLEMING: Sure. I mean, we
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`9 certainly appreciate that the Click to Call
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`10 decision itself dealt with 315(b). However,
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`11 the underlying holding from the Fifth Circuit
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`12 is -- you can't "unring the bell," so to speak,
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`13 and once the triggering event occurs to either
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`14 start the clock or to trigger the bar under
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`15 315, there is no one doing it. And the court
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`16 went through a Chevron analysis and I think
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`17 that it applied the same Chevron analysis with
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`18 315(a) you would come to the same result that
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`19 the federal circuit did with 315(b).
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`20 PATENT JUDGE: Okay. Patent
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`21 Owner or Petitioner, I suppose, for that
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`22 matter, do either of y'all anticipate needing
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`23 discovery for this motion?
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`24 MR. FLEMING: This is Kyle
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`25 Fleming for the Patent Owner. Since I
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`Conference Call 9/21/2018
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`7
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`1 understand that there is no dispute that
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`2 FourKites is a real party in interest, we don't
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`3 see that there would be the need for any
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`4 discovery.
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`5 MR. MURPHY: And, Your Honor,
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`6 the Petitioner. I don't anticipate the need
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`7 for discovery, but if you grant the
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`8 authorization to file the motion, depending
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`9 what is in the motion, you know, I'd want to at
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`10 least reserve the right to request it if
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`11 necessary prior to anticipate what their
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`12 argument is going to be.
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`13 PATENT JUDGE: Right. Patent
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`14 Owner, how many pages and what sort of timing
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`15 would you anticipate for this motion if it were
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`16 to be filed?
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`17 MR. FLEMING: I mean, based on
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`18 my draft I would say something on the order of
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`19 10 pages at 14 point type; and we could have it
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`20 on file certainly by Tuesday or Wednesday of
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`21 next week in both matters.
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`22 PATENT JUDGE: Petitioner, what
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`23 sort of timing and how long for a reply would
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`24 you anticipate?
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`25 MR. MURPHY: Your Honor, the
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`Conference Call 9/21/2018
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`8
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`1 page length, you know, I would request probably
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`2 in the order of 15 pages. I think there is
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`3 going to be a pretty substantial amount of law
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`4 and facts that have to be analyzed here.
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`5 Plus, this is essentially an issue of
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`6 first impression considering the Click to Call
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`7 case didn't deal with 315(a)(1), so we don't
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`8 have any direct guidance on that.
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`9 As far as timing, we would want two weeks
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`10 probably from when we receive the Patent
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`11 Owner's motion to respond.
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`12 PATENT JUDGE: Okay. Give me a
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`13 few minutes to confer with Judge Petravick and
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`14 Judge Jefferson and we'll get back with you in
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`15 just a few minutes.
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`16 MR. MURPHY: Okay. Thank you,
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`17 Your Honor.
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`18 MR. FLEMING: Thank you.
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`19 PATENT JUDGE: Okay. Thank you.
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`20 Again, this is Nathan Engels.
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`21 Patent Owner, do you anticipate a reply
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`22 to petitioner's response?
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`23 MR. FLEMING: I guess, yes,
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`24 based on what I have heard on this call. It
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`25 sounds like there might be some issues that
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`Conference Call 9/21/2018
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`9
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`1 they raise that they haven't articulated, so
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`2 I'm not sure I could discuss them in advance.
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`3 For example, the idea that maybe you should
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`4 treat declaratory judgment with a counterclaim
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`5 or something like that. So I would think that
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`6 some kind of reply would likely be needed.
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`7 PATENT JUDGE: Okay. Well, I
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`8 thank you very much for being on the call. We
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`9 will issue an order hopefully later today or
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`10 Monday. Thank you very much.
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`11 MR. FLEMING: Thank you very
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`12 much.
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`13 MR. MURPHY: Thank you, Your
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`14 Honor.
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`15 - - - - -
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`16 (Thereupon, the hearing was concluded.)
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`17 - - - - -
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`Conference Call 9/21/2018
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`10
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` THE STATE OF OHIO, ) SS:
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` COUNTY OF CUYAHOGA. )
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` I, Tracy Lam, a Notary Public within and
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` for the State of Ohio, duly commissioned and
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` qualified, do hereby certify that the foregoing is
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` a true and correct transcript of the testimony so
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` given.
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` I do further certify that this hearing was
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` taken at the time and place in the foregoing
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` caption specified. I do further certify that I am
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` not a relative, counsel or attorney of either
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` party, or otherwise interested in the event of this
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` action.
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` IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my
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` hand and affixed my seal of office at Cleveland,
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`
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` Ohio, on this 5th day of October, 2018.
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` Tracy Lam, Notary Public
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` within and for the State of Ohio
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` My Commission expires November 12, 2022.
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`CADY REPORTING SERVICES, INC. 216-861-9270
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`CADY REPORTING SERVICES, INC. 216-861-9270
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`Powered by TCPDF (www.tcpdf.org)
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`

`

`Conference Call
`
`Ruiz Food Products, Inc., Petitioner vs. Macropoint, LLC, Patent
`Owner
`
`September 21st, 2018
`
`Western Reserve Building
`1468 West 9th Street, Suite 440
`Cleveland, OH 44113
`Phone: 216.861.9270
`
`cadystaff@cadyreporting.com
`www.cadyreporting.com
`
`

`

`Conference Call 9/21/2018
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`1
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`commission
`10:12
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`commissioned
`10:10
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`decisions 4:6
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`declaratory
`4:1,10 5:7,15 9:4
`(5)
`
`complaint 4:23
`
`depending 7:8
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`
`
`
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`315a1 4:19,25
`5:4,9,19 8:7 (6)
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`315b 3:22
`4:19,25 6:10,19
`(5)
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`5th 10:5
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`9th 1:16
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`about 4:18,19
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`above 1:18
`
`action 3:21
`4:2,11,24 5:8,16
`10:10 (7)
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`addition 5:5
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`advance 9:2
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`315a 6:18
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`5:10,18
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`c 1:10
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`applied 6:17
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`cady 1:16
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`appreciate 6:9
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`are 5:13
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`call 3:12,18
`4:9,18,21 5:1 6:9
`8:6,24 9:8 (10)
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`argument 7:12
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`called 3:18
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`concluded 9:16
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`didn't 8:7
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`articulated 9:1
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`can 4:16 5:11
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`confer 8:13
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`attorney 10:10
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`can't 6:12
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`considered 4:7
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`authorization 7:8
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`caption 10:10
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`considering 8:6
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`avoidance 5:23
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`carrion 2:8 3:6,6
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`contend 5:3
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`difference
`4:23,25
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`direct 8:8
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`discovery 6:23
`7:4,7
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`b 2:7
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`b1 1:6,9
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`back 8:14
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`banc 3:17
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`case 1:2017,7
`3:18,24 4:3,6 5:10
`8:7 (8)
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`contention 6:1
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`discuss 9:2
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`continue 4:12
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`dismiss 3:13
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`cases 4:21
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`correct 6:2 10:10
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`certainly 6:9
`7:20
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`could 5:8 7:19
`9:2
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`dismissed 3:21
`4:3
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`dispute 7:1
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`affect 5:8
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`affixed 10:10
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`again 8:20
`
`also 3:7,9 5:5,9
`(4)
`
`bar 3:22 4:7,10
`6:14 (4)
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`based 4:5 7:17
`8:24
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`certify
`10:10,10,10
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`challenging 4:2
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`before 1:2,10,13
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`chevron 6:16,17
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`am 1:17 10:10
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`begin 3:14
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`amount 8:3
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`analysis 6:16,17
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`analyzed 8:4
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`anticipate 6:22
`7:6,11,15,24 8:21
`(6)
`
`appeal 1:2
`
`appearances 2:1
`
`applicability 5:2
`
`application
`
`behalf 2:3,6 3:2,5
`(4)
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`being 3:24 9:8
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`believe 3:8,11
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`bell 6:12
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`between 4:23,25
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`board 1:2 4:12
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`board's 3:19
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`both 3:3 7:21
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`circuit 3:17 4:22
`6:11,19 (4)
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`clear 5:21
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`cleveland 1:17
`10:10
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`click 3:18
`4:9,18,20 5:1 6:9
`8:6 (7)
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`clock 6:14
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`come 6:18
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`counsel 10:10
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`doing 6:15
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`count 3:22
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`draft 7:18
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`counterclaim
`5:17 9:4
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`county 10:10
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`duly 10:10
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`either 5:17
`6:13,22 10:10 (4)
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`court 3:9 6:15
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`email 4:14
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`cuyahoga 10:10
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`engels 1:11 8:20
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`data 5:23
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`date 1:18
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`esq 2:4,4,7,8 (4)
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`essentially 8:5
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`day 1:18 10:5
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`event 6:13 10:10
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`deal 8:7
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`example 9:3
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`dealt 6:10
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`examples 5:18
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`commencing
`1:17
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`decision 3:20
`4:18 5:2 6:10 (4)
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`expires 10:12
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`explain 3:15 4:16
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`5:11
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`fact 5:25
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`facts 8:4
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`Conference Call 9/21/2018
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`2
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`good 3:1,4
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`6:1,4 7:2 (5)
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`length 8:1
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`nathan 1:11 8:20
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`grant 7:7
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`interested 10:10
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`let's 3:14
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`necessary 7:11
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`guess 5:20 8:23
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`factual 5:6
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`guidance 8:8
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`far 8:9
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`hand 10:10
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`federal 3:16 4:21
`6:19
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`few 8:13,15
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`fifth 6:11
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`file 3:12 4:15
`7:8,20 (4)
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`filed 3:25 4:1
`7:16
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`filing 3:23
`4:4,10,24 (4)
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`has 4:22
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`haven't 9:1
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`having 5:2
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`heard 8:24
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`hearing 1:13
`9:16 10:10
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`hereby 10:10
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`hereunto 10:10
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`ipr2017020161
`1:2017
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`ipr201702018 1:7
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`issue 4:20 8:5 9:9
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`issued 3:17
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`issues 5:14 8:25
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`its 5:10
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`itself 6:10
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`james 2:4 3:2
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`jefferson 1:10
`8:14
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`like 8:25 9:5
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`need 7:3,6
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`likely 9:6
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`line 3:7,9
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`llc 1:9
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`needed 9:6
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`needing 6:22
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`next 7:21
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`long 7:23
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`no 6:15 7:1
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`luis 2:8 3:6
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`many 7:14
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`matter 5:14 6:22
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`matters 7:21
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`maybe 9:3
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`notary 1:14
`10:10,5
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`note 5:5
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`noted 6:4
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`november 10:12
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`now 4:3,9
`
`first 8:6
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`fleming 2:7
`3:4,5,8,16
`6:8,24,25 7:17
`8:18,23 9:11 (12)
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`food 1:4
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`foregoing
`10:10,10
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`forth 1:18
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`fourkites 4:1
`5:22,25 6:3 7:2 (5)
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`holding 6:11
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`honor 3:2 4:17
`6:3 7:5,25 8:17
`9:14 (7)
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`hopefully 9:9
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`how 7:14,23
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`however 4:8 6:10
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`i'd 7:9
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`i'm 9:2
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`idea 9:3
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`further 10:10,10
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`impression 8:6
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`inc 1:4
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`informative 3:20
`4:6
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`get 8:14
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`give 8:12
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`given 10:10
`
`going 7:12 8:3
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`judge 3:10 4:13
`5:11,20 6:6,20
`7:13,22
`8:12,13,14,19 9:7
`(13)
`
`judgment 4:1,10
`5:7,15 9:4 (5)
`
`jurisdiction 4:12
`5:15
`
`just 5:21 8:15
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`kind 9:6
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`know 7:9 8:1
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`kyle 2:7 3:5 6:24
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`lacks 4:11,12
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`lam 1:14 10:10,5
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`later 9:9
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`me 1:13 8:12
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`mean 5:12 6:8
`7:17
`
`number 5:6
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`numerous 4:21
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`meredith 1:10
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`occurs 6:13
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`might 8:25
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`october 10:5
`
`minutes 8:13,15
`
`office 1:1 10:10
`
`monday 9:10
`
`offices 1:16
`
`morning 3:1,4
`
`motion 3:12 4:15
`6:23 7:8,9,15 8:11
`(7)
`
`much 9:8,10,12
`
`murphy 2:4,4
`3:1,3,3 4:17 5:13
`6:2 7:5,25 8:16
`9:13 (12)
`
`ohio 1:15,17
`10:10,10,5 (5)
`
`once 6:13
`
`one 5:17 6:15
`
`only 4:18
`
`order 7:18 8:2
`9:9
`
`other 4:21 5:6
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`otherwise 10:10
`
`ingenio 3:18
`
`law 8:3
`
`my 7:18 10:10,10
`
`interest 3:25 5:23
`
`least 7:10
`
`named 6:4
`
`CADY REPORTING SERVICES, INC. 216-861-9270
`
`

`

`posed 4:14
`
`reporting 1:16
`
`since 6:25
`
`position 3:15
`4:8,16 5:24 6:7 (5)
`
`request 3:12 4:15
`7:10 8:1 (4)
`
`precisely 4:24
`
`requested 3:11
`
`some 8:25 9:6
`
`something 7:18
`9:5
`
`owner's 4:8 8:11
`
`preclude 5:9,18
`
`reserve 7:10
`
`sort 5:6 7:14,23
`
`page 8:1
`
`prejudice 4:4
`
`respect 3:22
`
`sounds 8:25
`
`respond 6:7 8:11
`
`speak 6:12
`
`
`
`
`
`our 5:1
`
`out 4:22
`
`owner 1:8 2:6
`3:5,11,14 5:3
`6:6,21,25 7:14
`8:21 (11)
`
`pages 7:14,19 8:2
`
`party 3:25 5:25
`6:3 7:2 10:10 (5)
`
`patent 1:1,2,6,9,8
`2:6 3:5,10,11,14
`4:8,13 5:3,11,20
`6:6,6,20,20,25
`7:13,13,22
`8:10,12,19,21 9:7
`(28)
`
`Conference Call 9/21/2018
`
`3
`
`polsinelli 3:3
`
`reporter 3:9
`
`signature 10:5
`
`testimony 10:10
`
`thank 3:10
`8:16,18,19
`9:8,10,11,13 (8)
`
`their 7:11
`
`them 9:2
`
`thereupon 9:16
`
`these 4:2
`
`think 6:16 8:2
`9:5
`
`those 5:17
`
`through 6:16
`
`time 4:6 10:10
`
`timing 7:14,23
`8:9
`
`presidential 3:20
`4:5
`
`pretty 8:3
`
`prior 3:21,24
`4:4,9 7:11 (5)
`
`response 8:22
`
`result 6:18
`
`reversed 3:19
`
`probably 8:1,10
`
`right 7:10,13
`
`products 1:4
`
`ruiz 1:4 3:25
`
`public 1:14
`10:10,5
`
`ruling 3:17
`
`speakerphone
`1:15 2:3,6
`
`specifically 4:22
`
`specified 10:10
`
`ss 10:10
`
`standing 4:11
`
`start 6:14
`
`today 9:9
`
`patents 4:3
`
`petition 3:23
`5:22 6:5
`
`petitioner 2:3 3:2
`4:11,13 6:21
`7:6,22 (7)
`
`petitioner's 5:24
`6:7 8:22
`
`petitions 3:24 4:5
`
`petravick 1:10
`8:13
`
`purposes 4:7
`
`qualified 10:10
`
`raise 9:1
`
`real 3:25 5:25 6:3
`7:2 (4)
`
`ryan 2:4 3:3
`
`same 6:17,18
`
`state 1:15
`10:10,10,5 (4)
`
`tracy 1:14
`10:10,5
`
`say 7:18
`
`states 1:1
`
`trademark 1:1
`
`scenarios 5:7
`
`statute 4:20
`
`transcript 10:10
`
`scope 5:8
`
`street 1:17
`
`treat 9:4
`
`realparty 5:22
`
`seal 10:10
`
`subject 5:14
`
`treated 5:16
`
`receive 8:10
`
`section 3:22
`
`substantial 8:3
`
`trevor 1:10
`
`recently 3:17
`
`see 5:1 7:3
`
`such 6:5
`
`trial 1:2
`
`place 10:10
`
`regard 5:3,9
`
`seems 5:3
`
`suppose 6:21
`
`trigger 6:14
`
`please 3:14 4:16
`
`regarding 3:12
`
`service 4:23
`
`sure 3:16 6:8 9:2
`
`triggering 6:13
`
`plus 8:5
`
`related 5:14
`
`services 1:16
`
`point 6:1 7:19
`
`relative 5:7 10:10
`
`set 1:18 10:10
`
`pointed 4:22
`
`reply 7:23 8:21
`9:6
`
`should 5:16 9:3
`
`taken 1:13,15
`10:10
`
`telephonic 1:13
`
`termed 5:22
`
`true 10:10
`
`tuesday 7:20
`
`two 8:9
`
`CADY REPORTING SERVICES, INC. 216-861-9270
`
`

`

`
`
`
`
`Conference Call 9/21/2018
`
`4
`
`type 7:19
`
`will 9:9
`
`under 6:14
`
`underlying 6:11
`
`undersigned 1:14
`
`understand 4:14
`5:21 7:1
`
`united 1:1
`
`unring 6:12
`
`validity 4:2
`
`very 9:8,10,11
`
`via 1:15 2:3,6
`
`view 5:1
`
`voluntarily 3:21
`
`within 1:14
`10:10,5
`
`without 4:4
`
`witness 10:10
`
`would 4:19
`5:5,9,18 6:18
`7:3,15,18,23 8:1,9
`9:5,6 (13)
`
`y'all 6:22
`
`yeah 5:13
`
`yes 4:17 8:23
`
`your 3:1,15
`4:14,16,17 6:3
`7:5,25 8:17 9:13
`(10)
`
`vs 1:6 3:18
`
`315 4:7 6:15
`
`want 6:7 7:9 8:9
`
`1100 1:17
`
`we'll 8:14
`
`1468 1:16
`
`wednesday 7:20
`
`2018 10:5
`
`2022 10:12
`
`8275358 1:6
`
`9429659 1:9
`
`week 7:21
`
`weeks 8:9
`
`well 9:7
`
`went 6:16
`
`west 1:16
`
`what 3:19 5:12
`7:9,11,14,22 8:24
`(7)
`
`when 8:10
`
`whereof 10:10
`
`which 3:19
`4:19,24
`
`CADY REPORTING SERVICES, INC. 216-861-9270
`
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