DAVID H. WILLIAMS - 8/9/2018
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`1
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` 1 UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`
` 2 BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
` 3
`
` RUIZ FOOD PRODUCTS, INC., )
` 4 )
` Petitioner, )
` 5 )
` ) CASE IPR2017-02018
` 6 vs. ) PATENT 9,429,659
` )
` 7 MACROPOINT LLC, )
` )
` 8 Patent Owner. )
` --------------------------/
`
` 9
`
` RUIZ FOOD PRODUCTS, INC., )
` 10 )
` Petitioner, )
` 11 )
` ) CASE IPR2017-02016
` 12 vs. ) PATENT 8,275,358 .
` )
` 13 MACROPOINT LLC, )
` )
` 14 Patent Owner. )
`
` 15
`
` - - - - -
` 16 THE DEPOSITION OF DAVID H. WILLIAMS
` THURSDAY, AUGUST 9, 2018
` 17 - - - - -
`
` 18 The deposition of DAVID H. WILLIAMS, called by
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` 19 the Petitioner for examination, taken before me,
`
` 20 the undersigned, Sarah R. Drown, a Registered
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` 21 Professional Reporter and Notary Public within and
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` 22 for the State of Ohio, taken at the offices of
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` 23 Renner Otto, 1621 Euclid Avenue, Floor 19,
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` 24 Cleveland, Ohio, commencing at 9:07 a.m., the day
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` 25 and date above set forth.
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`HANNA & HANNA, INC.
`713.840.8484
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`Page 1 of 179
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`RUIZ FOODS PRODUCTS, INC.
`Exhibit 1020
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`1
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` 1 UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`
` 2 BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
` 3
`
` RUIZ FOOD PRODUCTS, INC., )
` 4 )
` Petitioner, )
` 5 )
` ) CASE IPR2017-02018
` 6 vs. ) PATENT 9,429,659
` )
` 7 MACROPOINT LLC, )
` )
` 8 Patent Owner. )
` --------------------------/
`
` 9
`
` RUIZ FOOD PRODUCTS, INC., )
` 10 )
` Petitioner, )
` 11 )
` ) CASE IPR2017-02016
` 12 vs. ) PATENT 8,275,358 .
` )
` 13 MACROPOINT LLC, )
` )
` 14 Patent Owner. )
`
` 15
`
` - - - - -
` 16 THE DEPOSITION OF DAVID H. WILLIAMS
` THURSDAY, AUGUST 9, 2018
` 17 - - - - -
`
` 18 The deposition of DAVID H. WILLIAMS, called by
`
` 19 the Petitioner for examination, taken before me,
`
` 20 the undersigned, Sarah R. Drown, a Registered
`
` 21 Professional Reporter and Notary Public within and
`
` 22 for the State of Ohio, taken at the offices of
`
` 23 Renner Otto, 1621 Euclid Avenue, Floor 19,
`
` 24 Cleveland, Ohio, commencing at 9:07 a.m., the day
`
` 25 and date above set forth.
`
`HANNA & HANNA, INC.
`713.840.8484
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`Page 1 of 179
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`RUIZ FOODS PRODUCTS, INC.
`Exhibit 1020
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`DAVID H. WILLIAMS - 8/9/2018
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`2
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` 1 APPEARANCES:
`
` 2 On behalf of the Petitioner:
`
` 3 James P. Murphy, Esq.
` Matthew R. Frontz, Esq.
` 4 Polsinelli PC
` 1000 Louisiana Street, Suite 6400
` 5 Houston, Texas 77002
` (713) 374-1600
` 6 Jpmurphy@polsinelli.com
` Mfrontz@polsinelli.com
`
` 7
`
` 8 On behalf of the Patent Owner:
`
` 9 Mark C. Johnson, Esq.
` Kyle B. Fleming, Esq.
` 10 Renner Otto
` 1621 Euclid Avenue, Floor 19
` 11 Cleveland, Ohio 44115
` (216) 621-1113
` 12 Mjohnson@rennerotto.com
` Kfleming@rennerotto.com
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`HANNA & HANNA, INC.
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`DAVID H. WILLIAMS - 8/9/2018
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`3
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` 1 W I T N E S S I N D E X
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` 2 PAGE
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` 3 EXAMINATION
` DAVID H. WILLIAMS
` 4 BY MR. MURPHY........................ 4
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` 5
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` 6
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` 7
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` E X H I B I T I N D E X
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` EXHIBIT DESCRIPTION PAGE
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` 8 Exhibit 1019 Rebuttal Expert Report
` of Ivan Zatkovich 87
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`DAVID H. WILLIAMS - 8/9/2018
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`4
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` 1 DAVID H. WILLIAMS
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` 2 of lawful age, called by the Petitioner for
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` 3 examination, having been first duly sworn, as
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` 4 hereinafter certified, was examined and testified
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` 5 as follows:
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` 6 EXAMINATION OF DAVID H. WILLIAMS
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` 7 BY MR. MURPHY:
`
` 8 Q Good morning, Mr. Williams.
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` 9 A Morning.
`
` 10 Q So, first, we are here today for two IPRS,
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` 11 IPR2017-02016 for U.S. Patent 8,275,358 and
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` 12 IPR2017-02018 for U.S. Patent 9,429,659.
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` 13 You provided declarations related to
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` 14 those patents to submit in those IPR
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` 15 proceedings, right?
`
` 16 A Correct.
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` 17 Q Just for the record, can you provide your full
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` 18 name?
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` 19 A David Hilliard Williams.
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` 20 Q If I refer to the two patents as the '358
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` 21 patent and the '659 patent, would you
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` 22 understand that?
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` 23 A Yes.
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` 24 Q Based on your CV, it looks like you've been
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` 25 deposed before. Is that right?
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`DAVID H. WILLIAMS - 8/9/2018
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` 1 A Correct.
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` 2 Q Let me just go over some of the basics, then,
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` 3 even though you're probably already familiar
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` 4 with them.
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` 5 Today I'll be asking you questions
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` 6 related to your declarations. You'll be
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` 7 answering them under oath.
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` 8 Your testimony here has the same effect
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` 9 as if it was before the PTAB itself. Do you
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` 10 understand that?
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` 11 A Yes, I do.
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` 12 Q Your attorney may object to my questions, but
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` 13 unless he instructs you specifically not to
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` 14 answer, you still need to provide an answer to
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` 15 all of the questions.
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` 16 A Okay.
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` 17 Q If you don't understand any of my questions,
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` 18 please let me know and I'll try to rephrase it
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` 19 if I can.
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` 20 A Okay.
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` 21 Q If you need a break, let me know. I'll try to
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` 22 accommodate you as best as I can, but if
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` 23 there's still a question pending or a line of
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` 24 questions, I want to finish those beforehand.
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` 25 A I will probably need a break roughly every hour
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`DAVID H. WILLIAMS - 8/9/2018
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`6
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` 1 due to physical stuff I have.
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` 2 Q Okay.
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` 3 MR. JOHNSON: Can we go off
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` 4 the record for one second.
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` 5 - - - - -
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` 6 (Discussion held off the record.)
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` 7 - - - - -
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` 8 BY MR. MURPHY:
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` 9 Q You mentioned some sort of condition. Is there
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` 10 anything that would prevent you from testifying
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` 11 fully, giving complete and true answers today?
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` 12 A No, there's not.
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` 13 Q No medication or health conditions that would
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` 14 affect your ability to answer questions?
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` 15 A No.
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` 16 Q Who approached you to be retained in these
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` 17 matters?
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` 18 A Otto Renner.
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` 19 Q Have you ever communicated with anyone other
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` 20 than attorneys from Otto Renner on these
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` 21 matters?
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` 22 A I don't think so.
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` 23 Q You never communicated with anyone from
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` 24 MacroPoint?
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` 25 A No. The reason I hesitated is that this case
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`DAVID H. WILLIAMS - 8/9/2018
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`7
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` 1 originally came up a couple of years ago and
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` 2 then went away before it almost got started.
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` 3 So I don't know who I communicated with at that
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` 4 point, but on this case certainly it's only --
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` 5 I don't think I ever communicated, even back
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` 6 then, with MacroPoint. That's the reason I
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` 7 hesitated to try and figure that out.
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` 8 Q To the best of your knowledge, as you sit here
`
` 9 today, only attorneys from Renner Otto?
`
` 10 A Correct.
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` 11 Q Are you aware there's a co-pending litigation
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` 12 involving these patents?
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` 13 A Vaguely, yes.
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` 14 Q Are you aware that Ivan Zatkovich has provided
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` 15 expert testimony on invalidity in that
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` 16 litigation?
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` 17 A That name doesn't ring a bell.
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` 18 Q That name's not familiar to you?
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` 19 A No.
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` 20 Q In preparing your declaration, did you ever
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` 21 review any reports that were prepared by
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` 22 Mr. Zatkovich?
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` 23 A No. The name doesn't ring a bell. I would
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` 24 think I'd remember him.
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` 25 Q Did you write your declarations on your own?
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`DAVID H. WILLIAMS - 8/9/2018
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` 1 A Yes.
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` 2 Q All of the opinions in there, to the best of
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` 3 your knowledge, are yours?
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` 4 A Yes.
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` 5 Q Did you do any preparation for today's
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` 6 deposition?
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` 7 A I met yesterday with counsel to talk about both
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` 8 patents.
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` 9 Q Did you meet with the same two attorneys from
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` 10 Renner Otto present here today?
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` 11 A Yes.
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` 12 Q Did you meet with anyone else?
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` 13 A No.
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` 14 Q What documents did you review to prepare for
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` 15 today's deposition?
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` 16 A Well, the patents, the prior art, Mr. Denning's
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` 17 opinions for declarations, and I think there's
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` 18 some miscellaneous other ones.
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` 19 Q Did you read through your declarations again?
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` 20 A Yes.
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` 21 Q When you read through them, did you still agree
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` 22 with all of the statements you had made in
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` 23 there?
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` 24 A Yes.
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` 25 Q Did you notice any errors or mistakes that you
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`DAVID H. WILLIAMS - 8/9/2018
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` 1 feel need to be corrected?
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` 2 A No.
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` 3 Q Did you read the petitions filed by Ruiz Food
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` 4 Products?
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` 5 A Yes.
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` 6 Q And the board's institution decision?
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` 7 A Yes.
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` 8 Q You mentioned you read Mr. Denning's
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` 9 declaration, is that right?
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` 10 A Correct.
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` 11 Q Did you review all of the exhibits he cited in
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` 12 those declarations?
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` 13 A Yes.
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` 14 Q Did you read those to prepare for today's
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` 15 deposition or when you prepared your
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` 16 declaration?
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` 17 MR. JOHNSON: Objection to
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` 18 form.
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` 19 A Today's, yeah.
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` 20 Q So you read them at least again for preparing
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` 21 for today?
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` 22 A Yeah.
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` 23 Q How long did you meet with the attorneys at
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` 24 Renner Otto to prepare for today's deposition?
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` 25 A Three hours.
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`DAVID H. WILLIAMS - 8/9/2018
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`10
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` 1 Q Did you spend any time on your own preparing as
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` 2 well?
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` 3 A I was reading last night, yeah.
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` 4 Q Roughly how many hours do you think that would
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` 5 have been?
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` 6 A Last night, probably four or five.
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` 7 Q Let me ask you some questions about your
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` 8 background.
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` 9 Do you have any experience with
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` 10 interactive voice response systems?
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` 11 A Yes.
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` 12 Q What would that experience be?
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` 13 A Well, my consulting career started back in 1987
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` 14 working for what became Deloitte Touche.
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` 15 Interactive voice response was one of the key
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` 16 automation tools at that time for many
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` 17 companies. So much of my systems work, either
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` 18 tangentially or substantially, involved various
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` 19 system strategies, as well as interactive
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` 20 strategies for IVRS.
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` 21 Q Did you ever design an IVR system?
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` 22 A I designed the -- kind of the menu. You know,
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` 23 press 1 to go here, that kind of stuff.
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` 24 Q Were any of your designs ever implemented?
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` 25 A Yes.
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`DAVID H. WILLIAMS - 8/9/2018
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`11
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` 1 Q Where were they implemented at?
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` 2 A I would have to go back. What I call my
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` 3 mainstream consulting career encompasses
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` 4 something around 100 projects with I don't know
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` 5 how many different clients. So it's hard to
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` 6 say exactly without kind of going back and
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` 7 mixing and matching which clients did what and
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` 8 when.
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` 9 Q Would they have been implemented in essentially
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` 10 clients for Deloitte Touche that you were
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` 11 working on behalf of?
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` 12 A Correct.
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` 13 Q If today I refer to interactive voice response
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` 14 as IVR, would you understand that?
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` 15 A Yes.
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` 16 Q Can you also describe for me your experience in
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` 17 location tracking?
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` 18 A I'm sorry. Can I or is that a question?
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` 19 Q Can you describe your experience with location
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` 20 tracking technologies?
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` 21 A Oh. I have focused either exclusively or near
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` 22 exclusively on location-related technology and
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` 23 applications since the mid '90s. First working
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` 24 for Accenture, particularly with the wireless
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` 25 carrier Nextel, now absorbed by Sprint, at that
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`DAVID H. WILLIAMS - 8/9/2018
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`12
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` 1 time.
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` 2 And then I opened my own consultancy in
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` 3 2002 called E911-LBS Consulting. It's not a
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` 4 catchy name, but it's great for search engines.
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` 5 And I have focused on location everything since
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` 6 that point.
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` 7 Q What about your experience in tracking
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` 8 vehicles, can you describe that for me?
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` 9 A I worked for a freight transport company in the
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` 10 late '80s called Stevens Transport implementing
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` 11 a variety of management information systems.
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` 12 From 2007 to 2010 I worked for AT&T in
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` 13 implementing -- designing and implementing
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` 14 their location infrastructure, as well as
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` 15 several location-based service applications.
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` 16 Some of those were specifically targeted at the
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` 17 freight tracking, fleet tracking, worker
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` 18 tracking management applications.
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` 19 And then in the 2015, '16 time frame I
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` 20 was an expert witness for a company called
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` 21 Geotab in an infringement case that they were
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` 22 battling.
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` 23 Q What did you do for Stevens Transport?
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` 24 A They were a -- well, they still are, actually,
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` 25 based out of Dallas. They're a long haul
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`DAVID H. WILLIAMS - 8/9/2018
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`13
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` 1 trucking company and they at that point in time
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` 2 just had, in terms of their internal systems,
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` 3 basically represented a bunch of individual PCs
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` 4 that weren't connected or anything.
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` 5 So we -- I led the team to design a new
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` 6 management information system that worked for
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` 7 them, which by necessity had to figure out what
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` 8 kinds of information they wanted and how. And
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` 9 that in turn had the data collection ties into
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` 10 the broader business.
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` 11 Q How was the location being tracked with Stevens
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` 12 Transport?
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` 13 A At that point in time it was -- it really
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` 14 didn't -- the project, as well as the
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` 15 technology, didn't have that much to do with
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` 16 location tracking. Back in the '80s the
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` 17 primary method of tracking trucks was people
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` 18 letting them know where they were when they
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` 19 stopped at truck stops and called in on
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` 20 payphones kind of thing.
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` 21 Q There wasn't any hardware in the truck itself
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` 22 that was being used to track the location of
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` 23 the vehicle?
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` 24 A In that company at that time, no.
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` 25 Q And then for AT&T, what kind of location
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`DAVID H. WILLIAMS - 8/9/2018
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`14
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` 1 tracking technology were they employing?
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` 2 A There was really three sets of technologies
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` 3 that would be sold or utilized by
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` 4 freight-related companies.
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` 5 One would be in worker tracking, in terms
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` 6 of being able to just monitor how various field
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` 7 services people would want to -- were doing
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` 8 their jobs.
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` 9 Another was an actual fleet management
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` 10 type operation where you would have devices in
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` 11 the cab, particularly through what's called the
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` 12 OBD ports, to be able to collect data on the
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` 13 vehicle. And then they also sold individual
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` 14 asset trackers that could be affixed to
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` 15 anything, including axles, trailers, or
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` 16 anything else like that that didn't necessitate
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` 17 an actual human connection.
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` 18 Q With this work you're doing with AT&T, the
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` 19 hardware that plugs into the OBD ports, was
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` 20 that tracking location?
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` 21 A Yes.
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` 22 Q Was it using GPS to track the location?
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` 23 A Let me back up on that. I'm trying to remember
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` 24 the individual devices.
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` 25 Some of -- I can't remember if some of
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`DAVID H. WILLIAMS - 8/9/2018
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`15
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` 1 them had GPS or others were done via more basic
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` 2 cell ID kind of location approximation.
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` 3 For the companies that they were targeted
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` 4 for, like long haul companies, the cell ID
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` 5 rough approximate location was generally
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` 6 sufficient for what they wanted.
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` 7 Q Do you remember the name of those products?
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` 8 A The primary product I was responsible for --
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` 9 product line I was responsible for was with a
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` 10 company called Telenav. And there was some
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` 11 other companies as well making specialized
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` 12 products that I don't remember the names of.
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` 13 Q So was Telenav the name of the product, or was
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` 14 that the name of the company?
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` 15 A It was the name of the company. AT&T would
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` 16 either market as a kind of one-stop solution
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` 17 provider market other companies' products, or
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` 18 they would call do it on what's called a white
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` 19 label process where they would essentially take
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` 20 the product and/or service and slap the AT&T
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` 21 name on it.
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` 22 Q So did Telenav design the product or did AT&T?
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` 23 A For the Telenav products that were related,
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` 24 most of those were Telenav branded, I believe.
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` 25 Q You were employed by AT&T at the time, right?
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`16
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` 1 A I was a consultant.
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` 2 Q With AT&T?
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` 3 A I was -- I was an individual consultant working
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` 4 for AT&T.
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` 5 Q Okay. So you would not have designed the
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` 6 Telenav product, then, right?
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` 7 A I was the product manager. So that -- the role
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` 8 of that had to do -- involved certain
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` 9 responsibilities in terms of vendor management
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` 10 and product management, including getting --
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` 11 providing input and in some cases approvals on
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` 12 new products coming along, as well as
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` 13 individual configurations of products that AT&T
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` 14 wanted to market in particular.
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` 15 Q Did you provide any input on how to design the
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` 16 Telenav product?
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` 17 A That's kind of what I just said. As a product
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` 18 manager for the Telenav products, I would
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` 19 provide input to Telenav about what AT&T wanted
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` 20 to see in terms of products that they would be
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` 21 offering. And that input would go into future
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` 22 products, as well as certain configurations of
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` 23 current products, just to make the sales
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` 24 process more straightforward.
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` 25 Q You would tell them what AT&T wanted to see and
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`DAVID H. WILLIAMS - 8/9/2018
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`17
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` 1 then they would design the product to meet
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` 2 those goals?
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` 3 A Correct.
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` 4 Q Did AT&T have any other products for the
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` 5 freight industry besides the Telenav product?
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` 6 A Yes. There were a number of other products. I
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` 7 wasn't the only product manager for those kinds
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` 8 of things. Just the names escape me at this
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` 9 point.
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` 10 Q For the Telenav product then, was it used in
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` 11 any industry other than the freight industry?
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` 12 A It was used in -- potentially used in any
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` 13 industry that wanted to track someone or
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` 14 something.
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` 15 So AT&T being a big company, they
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` 16 generally wanted to have this broad impact on
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` 17 as many industries as they could. So they
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` 18 didn't necessarily try and pigeonhole their
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` 19 product to one segment or another.
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` 20 Q So the Telenav product could have been used to
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` 21 track a vehicle that didn't have freight, is
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` 22 that right?
`
` 23 A Correct.
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` 24 Q Or it could have been used to track a person?
`
` 25 A Correct.
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`18
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` 1 Q When it was used to track a person, what was
`
` 2 the hardware?
`
` 3 A It was -- there were multiple types. One was
`
` 4 dedicated hardware that would sit on the
`
` 5 dashboard of the truck. And I think there were
`
` 6 others that went into the OBD port.
`
` 7 Q You also mentioned the Geotab company. What
`
` 8 was the work you did for them?
`
` 9 A They were being sued for infringement, and I
`
` 10 can't remember the name of the company that was
`
` 11 suing them, but I was retained by their counsel
`
` 12 to help defend them against the infringement
`
` 13 charge.
`
` 14 Q You don't remember the name of the company that
`
` 15 was suing them?
`
` 16 A No.
`
` 17 Q Did you ever prepare any expert reports in that
`
` 18 case?
`
` 19 A Yes.
`
` 20 Q What were those expert reports directed to?
`
` 21 A On refuting the assertions of infringement.
`
` 22 Q Did you provide any opinions on validity in
`
` 23 that case?
`
` 24 A No. There was I think an invalidity -- a
`
` 25 separate invalidity action, but that was
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`DAVID H. WILLIAMS - 8/9/2018
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`19
`
` 1 handled by somebody else.
`
` 2 Q Did you give a deposition in that case?
`
` 3 A Yeah.
`
` 4 Q Did you ever testify at trial?
`
` 5 A Almost. I was down in Marshall, Texas, ready
`
` 6 to go and they literally settled the night
`
` 7 before jury selection.
`
` 8 Q Marshall's such a nice town. I'm sure you
`
` 9 loved it down there.
`
` 10 A Yes. I went back this year and got to see
`
` 11 Judge Gilstrap in action.
`
` 12 Q Did any of your testimony in that case relate
`
` 13 to using a mobile device to track a vehicle?
`
` 14 A Yes. Geotab's devices, and this is indicated
`
` 15 in my report, had devices that would plug into
`
` 16 the on-board diagnostic port -- called the OBD
`
` 17 port -- that would allow them to tie into the
`
` 18 engine's computers, as well as in some of their
`
` 19 later versions have GPS chips in them to
`
` 20 provide location information on them as well.
`
` 21 Q Did any of the Geotab devices that you provide
`
` 22 opinion on not plug into the OBD port?
`
` 23 A I think they all did.
`
` 24 Q Did the Geotab devices that you provided your
`
` 25 report on, did any of them track the location
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`DAVID H. WILLIAMS - 8/9/2018
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`20
`
` 1 of freight carrying vehicles?
`
` 2 A Yes.
`
` 3 Q Did any of them track the location of freight?
`
` 4 A No, not directly.
`
` 5 Q Did they indirectly track freight?
`
` 6 A Just to the extent that they were potentially
`
` 7 tied to a truck that had freight in it.
`
` 8 Q Did they also track vehicles that did not carry
`
` 9 freight?
`
` 10 A Yes. They could be plugged into any vehicle
`
` 11 that had an OBD port, which is pretty much all
`
` 12 relatively recent vehicles.
`
` 13 Q You never designed any Geotab device, have you?
`
` 14 A No. As part of that case I used the Geotab
`
` 15 device which includes -- included setting up
`
` 16 rules that I wanted to be tracked and
`
` 17 information provided to me in the form of
`
` 18 reports and alerts, but -- so that's a kind of
`
` 19 user design, but in terms of actually designing
`
` 20 Geotab products as an engineer, no.
`
` 21 Q In your declaration I think you also refer to a
`
` 22 case you did for FedEx.
`
` 23 Can you tell me what your work in the
`
` 24 FedEx case was?
`
` 25 A That was both an infringement and a validity
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`DAVID H. WILLIAMS - 8/9/2018
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`21
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` 1 case. That was Intellectual Vendors versus
`
` 2 FedEx. I remember that one.
`
` 3 Intellectual Vendors was a patent holding
`
` 4 company that had a variety of patents on
`
` 5 technology that could be used for -- at least
`
` 6 they asserted it could be used for freight, or
`
` 7 in their case, delivery, package delivery
`
` 8 companies, which is why FedEx got pulled in.
`
` 9 Q Did you provide an expert report in that case?
`
` 10 A Yes.
`
` 11 Q What was the scope of the expert report?
`
` 12 A I was doing both infringement and invalidity in
`
` 13 that case. So there was actually two sets of
`
` 14 reports. One on why the patents did not
`
` 15 infringe and the other why the patent was
`
` 16 invalid.
`
` 17 Q Did you give a deposition in that case?
`
` 18 A Yes.
`
` 19 Q What about trial testimony?
`
` 20 A Yes.
`
` 21 Q You testified on both infringement and
`
` 22 invalidity?
`
` 23 A Correct.
`
` 24 Q In that case what was the hardware that FedEx
`
` 25 was using that was alleged to have infringe its
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`DAVID H. WILLIAMS - 8/9/2018
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`22
`
` 1 patents?
`
` 2 A I'm sure you've seen FedEx delivery people come
`
` 3 up to your door and they have the big handheld
`
` 4 device and they ask you to sign it and they
`
` 5 punch in all sorts of different stuff. That's
`
` 6 the hardware that was involved in that case on
`
` 7 the mobile. And then there was also the
`
` 8 back-end systems that were at issue as well.
`
` 9 Q Did any of your testimony relate to using a
`
` 10 mobile device to track the location of a
`
` 11 vehicle?
`
` 12 A As part of potential non-infringing
`
` 13 alternatives.
`
` 14 Q In that case why would the mobile device not
`
` 15 have been an infringing alternative?
`
` 16 A The nature of the patent was focused -- or the
`
` 17 claims were focused on the technology or the
`
` 18 ways the technology was used primarily by the
`
` 19 mobile worker. And the patent itself wasn't
`
` 20 originally geared towards package delivery, it
`
` 21 was geared towards heating and air conditioning
`
` 22 service technicians and they tried to repurpose
`
` 23 it to be able to draw FedEx into it.
`
` 24 Q So your testimony in that case regarding this
`
` 25 non-infringing alternative was that FedEx could
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`DAVID H. WILLIAMS - 8/9/2018
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`23
`
` 1 have implemented a system to track vehicles
`
` 2 using a mobile device?
`
` 3 A The purpose of the -- of the FedEx system is
`
` 4 around delivering freight or delivering
`
` 5 packages, if you will. So everything revolved
`
` 6 around the best ways of managing and --
`
` 7 managing package delivery.
`
` 8 So the workers or the vehicles on
`
` 9 which -- that were involved, those were
`
` 10 important in terms of designing. All the
`
` 11 technology was focused on the patent -- or not
`
` 12 on the patent, on the package.
`
` 13 Q Did you provide any testimony about using a
`
` 14 mobile device to track location of freight?
`
` 15 MR. JOHNSON: Objection to
`
` 16 form.
`
` 17 A The process of -- it was using mobile device as
`
` 18 part of the process of picking up and/or
`
` 19 delivering freight -- or packages, I should
`
` 20 say.
`
` 21 Q You've never designed a system for FedEx to
`
` 22 track vehicles, have you?
`
` 23 A No.
`
` 24 Q You've never designed a system for FedEx to
`
` 25 track freight, have you?
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`DAVID H. WILLIAMS - 8/9/2018
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`24
`
` 1 A You're saying it in a negative, but no, I have
`
` 2 never designed a system.
`
` 3 Q Just to make it clear, I'll reask.
`
` 4 Have you ever designed a system for FedEx
`
` 5 to track freight?
`
` 6 A No.
`
` 7 Q Before your involvement in these IPRS, you
`
` 8 provided litigation services for MacroPoint,
`
` 9 isn't that right?
`
` 10 A Could you repeat that? Was that a question?
`
` 11 Q Have you ever worked for MacroPoint prior to
`
` 12 these IPRS?
`
` 13 A No. Other than what I mentioned. A couple
`
` 14 years ago there was a potential case that I was
`
` 15 interviewed for and was getting ready to start
`
` 16 on, and then apparently it stopped for whatever
`
` 17 reason. So, you know, besides that kind of
`
` 18 nonproject, no.
`
` 19 Q So nothing ever happened in that case, it was
`
` 20 about to start, but then before any actual
`
` 21 substantive work began, it stopped?
`
` 22 A Correct. Between the interview and them saying
`
` 23 "Yes, we would like to use you" and the actual
`
` 24 start, somewhere something happened.
`
` 25 Q Have you ever designed a system to track
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`DAVID H. WILLIAMS - 8/9/2018
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`25
`
` 1 vehicles for MacroPoint?
`
` 2 A No.
`
` 3 Q Have you ever designed a system to track
`
` 4 freight for MacroPoint?
`
` 5 A No.
`
` 6 Q Why don't we take a break there.
`
` 7 A Okay.
`
` 8 - - - - -
`
` 9 (Recess taken.)
`
` 10 - - - - -
`
` 11 BY MR. MURPHY:
`
` 12 Q Now I want to turn to the declaration you
`
` 13 provided for the '358 patent. Let me hand you
`
` 14 a copy. This was previously marked as Exhibit
`
` 15 2001.
`
` 16 Do you recognize this document?
`
` 17 A Yes.
`
` 18 Q Does this look like the declaration you
`
` 19 submitted in that proceeding?
`
` 20 A Yes.
`
` 21 Q Is that your signature at the end?
`
` 22 A Yes.
`
` 23 Q Now, in the declaration you provide discussion
`
` 24 of the Poulin reference. I want to hand you
`
` 25 that one as well. This was previously marked
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`DAVID H. WILLIAMS - 8/9/2018
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`26
`
` 1 as Exhibit 1005 in IPR2017-02016.
`
` 2 Do you recognize that document?
`
` 3 A Yes.
`
` 4 Q Does that look like the Poulin reference that
`
` 5 formed the basis of your opinion?
`
` 6 A Yes.
`
` 7 Q So in your declaration regarding claims,
`
` 8 independent claim 1, the only limitation that
`
` 9 you state Poulin does not teach is the notice
`
` 10 limitation, is that right?
`
` 11 A Let me look at my report.
`
` 12 Was your question directed to claim 1
`
` 13 specifically?
`
` 14 Q Claim 1 specifically.
`
` 15 A Yes.
`
` 16 Q Let me actually hand you the '358 patent so you
`
` 17 have that in front of you in case you need it.
`
` 18 This was previously marked as Exhibit 1001 in
`
` 19 IPR2017-02016.
`
` 20 If you turn to claim 1 of the '358
`
` 21 patent.
`
` 22 A Okay.
`
` 23 Q If you read the preamble of that claim, you
`
` 24 don't dispute that Poulin teaches the preamble,
`
` 25 right?
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`DAVID H. WILLIAMS - 8/9/2018
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`27
`
` 1 A By "preamble" you mean the first sentence
`
` 2 essentially or?
`
` 3 Q Yes. I'll just read it. The sentence starting
`
` 4 "A computer-implemented method for receiving
`
` 5 consent from a user of a mobile device to
`
` 6 obtaining location information of the mobile
`
` 7 device, the method comprising."
`
` 8 A Correct.
`
` 9 Q And then if you go to the next limitation, that
`
` 10 recites, "participating in a telephone call
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