1
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`ATTACHED IS THE UNCERTIFIED
`ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT OF:
`ZYGMUNT HAAS, PH.D.
`JUNE 4, 2018
`
`A UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT is not the
`OFFICIAL CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT and may not be cited
`or quoted as the OFFICIAL CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT in
`any proceedings; IS NOT PERMITTED TO BE USED AS A
`REPLACEMENT FOR THE OFFICIAL CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT.
`
`Job No.
`Reported by: Cindy L. Sebo, RMR, CRR, RPR, CLR,
`CCR, CSR, RSA, LiveDeposition Authorized Reporter
`
`Uniloc's Exhibit 2007
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`23456789
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`ATTACHED IS THE UNCERTIFIED
`ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT OF:
`ZYGMUNT HAAS, PH.D.
`JUNE 4, 2018
`
`A UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT is not the
`OFFICIAL CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT and may not be cited
`or quoted as the OFFICIAL CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT in
`any proceedings; IS NOT PERMITTED TO BE USED AS A
`REPLACEMENT FOR THE OFFICIAL CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT.
`
`Job No.
`Reported by: Cindy L. Sebo, RMR, CRR, RPR, CLR,
`CCR, CSR, RSA, LiveDeposition Authorized Reporter
`
`Uniloc's Exhibit 2007
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`23456789
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`
` Attached please find the UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT
`TRANSCRIPT.
`
`This UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT contains
`raw output from the certified court reporter's
`stenotype machine translated into English by the
`certified court reporter's Computer-Assisted
`Transcription (CAT) software without the benefit of
`proofreading and/or editing. It may contain
`untranslated steno outlines, wrong words,
`misspellings, mistranslations and missed
`punctuation. Corrections in the preparation of the
`OFFICIAL CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT will result in
`differences in content, page, line numbers,
`punctuation and formatting.
`
`
`This UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT is not
`the OFFICIAL CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT and may not be
`cited or quoted as the OFFICIAL CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT
`in any pleading, filing, or for any other purpose.
`It may not be filed with any court at any time or in
`any way to rebut or contradict the OFFICIAL
`CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT.
`
`
`This UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT is
`merely intended to assist the parties in their case
`preparation and not to be interpreted as the
`OFFICIAL CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT.
`
`
`This UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT cannot
`be used as a "replacement" of the OFFICIAL CERTIFIED
`TRANSCRIPT by any party. ALL PARTIES HEREBY
`UNDERSTAND AND AGREE BY ACCEPTING "RECEIPT" OF THIS
`UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPT, THEY ARE
`RESPONSIBLE FOR FULL PAYMENT OF THE OFFICIAL
`CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE PARTIES'
`DELIVERY SCHEDULE.
`DATED: June 4, 2018
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`10:07
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`P R O C E E D I N G S
`
`Washington, D.C.
`June 4, 2018; 10:07 a.m.
`
`THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Here begins
`Volume 1, Disc 1 in the video deposition
`of Dr. Zygmunt J. Haas, taken in the
`matter of Samsung Electronics America
`versus Uniloc Luxembourg S.A. in the
`Patent Trial and Appeal Board.
`Today's date is June 4th, 2018.
`This deposition is being held at
`875 15th Street, Northwest,
`Washington, D.C. 20005.
`The court reporter is Cindy Sebo
`on behalf of DepoCam LLC. The video
`camera operator is April Carter on
`behalf of DepoCam LLC.
`Will counsel please introduce
`themselves and state whom they represent
`beginning with the party noticing the
`deposition?
`MR. MANGRUM: This is Brett
`
`10:08
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`10:08
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`10:08
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`Mangrum with the Ethridge Law Group
`representing the patent owner, Uniloc
`S.A. Luxembourg.
`MR. CITROËN: And this is
`Phillip Citroën for Paul Hastings with
`Michael Wolfe, also with Paul Hastings,
`on behalf of Petitioner, Samsung.
`THE COURT REPORTER: We need to
`go off the record for a second.
`MR. CITROËN: Okay. Off the
`record.
`THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Off the
`record.
`
`10:08
`
`10:08
`
`- - -
`(Whereupon, a discussion was held
`off the record.)
`- - -
`THE VIDEOGRAPHER: On the record
`at 10:08.
`And will the court reporter
`please swear in the witness?
`- - -
`ZYGMUNT J. HAAS, PH.D.,
`after having been first duly sworn, was
`
`10:08
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`10:09
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`10:09
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`10:10
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`examined and testified as follows:
`- - -
`THE COURT REPORTER: The witness
`is sworn.
`MR. CITROËN: And, Brett, before
`we get started, just really quickly,
`Petitioner wants to object on the record
`that this is the first we learned that
`the deposition will be conducted in this
`manner.
`The deposition notice states that
`the deposition may be conducted video --
`videoconferencing. Today, we learned
`that the deposition is being video
`streamed in one direction. We cannot
`see the questioner or anyone else on the
`other end of the connection. So this is
`not technically a videoconference.
`We reserve the right to seek any
`appropriate relief, but we can continue
`with the deposition.
`MR. MANGRUM: I'll just state for
`the record, then, that -- and I'm happy
`to submit as -- as exhibits, the e-mail
`
`10:10
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`10:10
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`10:10
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`communications indicating agreement that
`the videoconference could be video
`recorded and that is all that's
`required; also express agreement through
`e-mail communication that the deposition
`could be taken remotely.
`And so your objection is noted,
`but I will just submit, to the extent
`necessary, we're happy to provide
`exhibits, e-mail communications that
`showed a meeting of the minds with
`respect to exactly what we're doing
`today.
`
`10:10
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`10:11
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`MR. CITROËN: And just one
`clarification to -- to video recording,
`not videoing streaming.
`But let's continue. Thank you.
`BY MR. MANGRUM:
`Q.
`Dr. Haas, would you state your
`name and full address for the record?
`A.
`I'm sorry. Are -- are you asking
`me, sir?
`Q.
`A.
`
`Yes.
`Yes. My last name is Haas,
`
`10:11
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`10:11
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`10:11
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`H-A-A-S. My first name is Zygmunt,
`Z-Y-G-M-U-N-T. My address is 280 West Renner,
`R-E-N-N-E-R, Road, Number 4321, Richardson,
`Texas 75080.
`I was also -- I lived in
`Q.
`Richardson for a while. It looks like we were
`close to being neighbors at one point.
`A.
`I'm sorry, sir?
`Q.
`I'll -- I was just mentioning the
`fact that I -- at one point, I lived in
`Richardson, Texas as well. So --
`A.
`Yeah, it's --
`Q.
`-- it sounds like we were
`neighbors at one point, or close to.
`A.
`Yes. It's a very nice place,
`
`10:11
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`10:12
`
`10:12
`
`sir.
`
`THE COURT REPORTER: We need to
`go off the record again -- we need to go
`off the record again, please.
`THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Off the record
`at 10:11.
`
`10:12
`
`- - -
`(Whereupon, a discussion was held
`off the record.)
`
`10:12
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`- - -
`THE VIDEOGRAPHER: On the record
`at 10:12.
`BY MR. MANGRUM:
`Q.
`Now, I want to be certain I'm
`pronouncing your name correctly.
`It's Dr. Haas?
`Haas, yes. Haas, H-A-A-S, Haas.
`Haas.
`Okay. Have you been deposed
`
`A.
`Q.
`
`10:13
`
`10:13
`
`before?
`Yes, I have been, sir.
`A.
`And in what capacity did you
`Q.
`testify previously?
`A.
`Well, I have been depose --
`deposed in other IPR matters. I have been also
`deposed with respect to District Court
`litigations.
`And in approximately how many IPR
`Q.
`matters have you been deposed?
`A.
`Oh, I can give you a very rough
`estimate, sir. So please do not hold me to the
`number.
`
`10:13
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`10:14
`
`I would say probably around 15
`
`10:14
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`times in IPR matters. But, again, I want to
`make sure that I'm clear that it's just an
`estimate and I may not remember the number
`exactly, sir.
`Q.
`
`10:14
`
`Understood.
`That was 1-5, 15, you said?
`1-5, yes, sir.
`Okay. And is English your first
`
`10:15
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`10:15
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`10:15
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`10:15
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`A.
`Q.
`language?
`A.
`Q.
`A.
`Hebrew.
`Okay. If -- if I read a question
`Q.
`or speak the question too quickly or if, in
`some way, you don't understand the question,
`will you please just ask me to clarify or to
`slow down?
`A.
`Q.
`
`My first language, sir?
`Yes.
`I -- I speak Polish, and I speak
`
`I sure will, sir.
`Thank you.
`And I will do my best to
`articulate questions as slowly and clearly as
`possible.
`A.
`
`Thank you, sir.
`
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`10:15
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`Q.
`To make certain -- okay. And to
`make certain that we have a clear record, it
`will be helpful if, when I ask a question, you
`respond with a yes or a no, as opposed to,
`like, a head nod or an uh-huh, or something
`like that, so, like, a word that can be
`understood by the court reporter.
`Does that make sense?
`I will do my best, sir.
`A.
`Okay. And if, during the
`Q.
`deposition, you need to take a break, will you
`please just let me know?
`A.
`I sure will, sir.
`Q.
`And I would only ask that if a
`question is pending -- so if I've asked a
`question and you either have not yet answered
`or you haven't completed your answer, I would
`ask that you first answer the question fully
`and completely before taking a break.
`Can we agree to that?
`Absolutely, sir.
`A.
`Great. And is there anything
`Q.
`preventing you from testifying truthfully and
`accurately today?
`
`10:16
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`10:16
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`A.
`No, there's nothing that I can
`think of, sir.
`Q.
`Okay. You understand that you're
`testifying under oath today?
`A.
`Absolutely, sir.
`Q.
`And you also understand you're
`being deposed today in two related matters --
`A.
`Well --
`Q.
`-- IPR matters?
`A.
`-- well, I understand, sir, that
`there are two patents in separate IRPs, I
`believe. If I understand this correctly, there
`are two patents, which I refer to as '723 and
`'747 patents, which I think I will be dis --
`deposed on today, sir.
`Q.
`Yes. And that's exactly what I
`wanted to accomplish, was make certain that you
`and I agree on some way of referring to these
`IPR matters and to these patents so that we
`don't talk past one another.
`So I think that's a good idea.
`Let's refer to the -- the matter IPR2017-1799
`-- I will refer to that matter as the 1799
`matter, so the last four digits of that matter. 10:18
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`10:17
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`10:17
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`10:17
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`And the patent challenged in that matter I'll
`refer to, as you stated, the '747 patent, which
`is the last three numbers of that patent.
`Do you understand that -- that
`
`10:18
`
`10:18
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`terminology?
`Yes, sir, I do.
`A.
`Okay. And for the other one, the
`Q.
`same. I'll refer to that other matter by its
`last four numbers, or the 1800 IPR. And the --
`for the patent challenged in that matter, as
`you just suggested, I'll refer to that patent
`by its last three digits, or the '723 patent.
`Do you understand that?
`Yes, sir.
`Good.
`Okay. So that will be helpful
`for this discussion.
`Do you have an understanding of
`what is meant of the term "priority date" of
`a patent?
`Well, sir, I am looking at my
`A.
`'723 declaration. And as I state in
`Paragraph 13 of the declaration, which is on
`Page 7, I'm saying here -- I'm quoting from the 10:19
`
`A.
`Q.
`
`10:18
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`10:18
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`UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT, NOT PROOFED, READ, EDITED
`middle of this paragraph -- that the
`specification of the '723 patent at the time of
`the alleged invention, which I have been asked
`to consider as the late 2003 time frame,
`including the December 18, 2003 filing date of
`the U.S. Patent Application Number -- and so on
`so on.
`
`10:19
`
`And if I understand your answer
`Q.
`correctly, that -- that December 18th, 2003
`date is the priority date you assumed for the
`'723 patent?
`So, sir, I do not use the term
`A.
`"priority date" here. I am just saying that is
`this the time frame -- late 2003 is the time
`frame at which I have considered in stating my
`opinion as the date -- as the date that my
`opinion -- opinions are related to.
`Q.
`Okay. So if I understand your
`answer, then, you -- and I'm starting to ask a
`question. Hopefully, you can still answer it
`-- you look at the art, in your opinion, as it
`existed in December 18th, 2003.
`That is -- that is the date by
`which you analyzed the relevant art?
`
`10:20
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`10:20
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`10:20
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`10:21
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`MR. CITROËN: Objection: form.
`THE WITNESS: To be more precise,
`I was asked to consider the time frame
`as late 2003, including December 18,
`2003.
`
`10:21
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`I say late 2003 because I do not
`believe that my opinions would be
`different if there is a difference of a
`couple of months, so to speak, or
`several months in 2003.
`So I said late 2003 time frame,
`which would be including, also, December
`18, 2003 filing date, sir.
`BY MR. MANGRUM:
`Q.
`Understood.
`And am I correct in -- in
`understanding your declaration that you
`actually did not state a definitive hierarchy
`date or use that phrase in your declaration?
`A.
`To my recollection, sir, unless
`you point me otherwise, I do not recall using
`the term "priority date" in my declaration,
`sir.
`
`10:21
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`10:22
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`10:22
`
`Q.
`
`Now, I understand you were, just
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`10:22
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`10:23
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`a moment ago, reading from your declaration in
`the -- declaration to the '723 patent in the
`1800 matter; is that correct?
`A.
`I was reading from the '723
`declaration, yes, sir. And I said -- I believe
`I mentioned it -- that I'm reading from my '723
`declaration, sir.
`Q.
`Yes, sir.
`As I look at your documents,
`the -- that '723 declaration, just for the
`record, it -- it has it on the very first page,
`an Exhibit 1002 on the bottom right-hand side.
`Do you see that?
`Exhibit 1002 -- 2 -- it actually
`A.
`says, Samsung Exhibit 1002, sir.
`Q.
`Yes, okay.
`And is this a document you
`brought with you to your deposition?
`A.
`This is one of the documents that
`I have brought with me today to the deposition,
`sir.
`
`10:23
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`10:23
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`10:23
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`And what other documents have you
`Q.
`brought with you today to the deposition?
`A.
`So as you already -- as you
`
`10:23
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`already discussed, I brought the declaration --
`my declaration with respect to the '723 patent,
`which, as we mentioned before, is Samsung
`Exhibit 1002. I also brought to the dep --
`deposition today a declaration -- my
`declaration with respect to the patent '747,
`sir --
`
`10:24
`
`Yes.
`Q.
`-- I also brought -- and I -- I
`A.
`want to mention that I -- in both of those
`declarations, I added tabs here that would help
`me simply to find the particular page quicker,
`so to speak. So those are just tabs, color
`tabs, that have numbers of a particular claim
`or claim element on these tabs.
`There are also white tabs that
`show the '747 patent declaration, for example.
`I also brought the --
`So -- I'm sorry. Continue.
`Q.
`-- I also brought with me today,
`A.
`sir, another binder in which I have the
`following documents here, sir: There is
`Exhibit 1001, which is the '723 patent; I have
`Exhibit 1003, which is Z. Haas CV, which is my
`
`10:24
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`10:24
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`10:25
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`10:25
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`10:26
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`CV, sir; there is another exhibit, 1001, which
`is the '747 patent; there is Exhibit 1005,
`which is labeled as Griffin, which is the
`Griffin patent; there is Exhibit 1006, which is
`the Zydney, Z-Y-D-N-E-Y patent -- patent;
`there's Exhibit 1008, which is Vaananen,
`V-A-A-N-A-N-E-N, patent; there's Exhibit 1013,
`which is RC1521/MIME, M-I-M-E; there's
`Exhibit 1022, which is the '890 patent; there
`is Exhibit 1024, which is Newton's, in
`parentheses, 16 -- 16; there is Exhibit 1025,
`IM Security, which is -- there is Exhibit 1026,
`which is IM Systems; there's Exhibit 1027;
`which is VoIP -- of course, stands for voice
`over IP -- there's Document 1028, which is IN
`in Java; there's document 1029, which is Guide
`to Chart Apps; there is Exhibit I -- I'm
`sorry -- there's Exhibit 1030, which is IN and
`Presence Technologies; there is Exhibit --
`excuse me -- Exhibit 1031, which is Delivery
`VoIP Networks; there is Exhibit 1032, which is
`Cheat at VoIP Security; there is Exhibit 1033,
`which is Newton's, in parentheses, 18; there's
`Exhibit 1034, which is IEEE 802.11
`
`10:26
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`standardization; there is Exhibit 1035, which
`is Unlicensed Innovation; Wi-Fi; there is
`Exhibit 103 -- 36, which is \DISH BONDER; there
`is Exhibit 1037, which is Appelman; there's
`Exhibit 1038, which is -- which is Scherzer;
`there's Exhibit 1039, which is Liu. This is
`the second binder.
`I also have in the third binder
`here, sir, the file histories, which is
`Exhibit 100 -- 40, file history of the
`'747 patent; Exhibit 1004, which is file
`history of the '723 patent; and there's
`Exhibit 1021, which is file history of the '890
`patent, sir.
`Thank you for reading through
`Q.
`that. I appreciate letting me know what you
`actually brought with you to the deposition.
`You mentioned earlier in -- in
`talking about the very first document that you
`identified, which was your declaration,
`Exhibit 1002, addressing the '723 patent -- you
`mentioned you had tabs physically attached to
`the document; is that correct?
`A.
`There are tabs which are -- so
`
`10:28
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`there are -- there's a -- they are divide --
`divider pages, which are white pages, which
`have the Exhibit 1002, '747 declaration tab on
`it. And there are also tabs which I, myself,
`added, which are, like, sticky notes in three
`different colors: red, green, and yellow.
`And on those tabs -- some of
`those tabs are marked the claim element or
`claim number that starts on a page at which
`this tab -- or close to where this tab is being
`placed. I -- I hope I'm clear.
`Q.
`So if I understand you correctly,
`there are essentially some writings on top of
`tabs that are physically attached to the
`document; is that correct?
`A.
`Right. On those tabs --
`Q.
`Okay.
`A.
`-- just as an example, if you
`wish -- for example, I have a tab -- green tab
`here, which says 1E on this, which, when I open
`on it, will open on page which -- which has --
`which allows me to read the Element 1E, for
`example.
`
`10:30
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`10:30
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`10:31
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`I don't know if it's clear.
`
`10:31
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`Q.
`Apart -- apart from the -- the
`tabs that you physically attached to the
`documents, have you taken notes or written
`directly onto the document itself?
`A.
`There's no notes or any writing
`on those documents -- my own writing -- my --
`in other words, any of notes, if you wish.
`That's what I mean by "writing."
`Q.
`Only your writing is on tabs that
`are affixed to the documents?
`A.
`The only writing in handwriting
`are on the --
`Q.
`Yes.
`A.
`-- tabs themselves, on the -- on
`the color tabs, sir. The white tabs are
`printed.
`And is -- is is it your intention
`Q.
`to answer today -- today based off the
`handwritten notes you -- I'm sorry. Let me --
`let me rephrase the question.
`Is your intention today to use
`the handwritten tabs or the -- or the typed
`tabs in order to answer the questions today?
`MR. CITROËN: Objection: form.
`
`10:31
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`10:31
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`10:32
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`THE WITNESS: I am not exactly
`sure that I understand your question,
`sir.
`
`I put those tabs to allow me to
`quickly open my document -- my
`declaration to an appropriate page. I'm
`not sure if this clarifies the purpose
`of the tabs, sir.
`MR. MANGRUM: Yeah. So just on
`the record -- and speaking now to you,
`Mr. Citroën -- we would ask that to the
`extent he plans on testifying --
`THE COURT REPORTER: I'm sorry?
`MR. MANGRUM: My understanding is
`the -- the court reporting team has
`nontabbed copies, just clean copies
`as -- as filed.
`And so I will just request one of
`two things, either opposing counsel
`agrees to produce the documents that
`he's using right now with all the tabs
`attached -- and when I say "produced,"
`to snail mail them to us -- I can give
`you an address -- and we plan on using
`
`10:32
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`them, but we just want to have access to
`them after the fact, you know, without
`any alteration, you know, with all the
`tabs it takes.
`And to the extent you're willing
`to agree to that, then we're fine
`proceeding, for a matter of expediency,
`using the documents that he has tabbed
`and brought with him today.
`MR. CITROËN: Sure, I think we
`can agree to that. But I think,
`probably, the appropriate way to handle
`this is to give it to the court reporter
`after the deposition, and she can label
`them as exhibits.
`But I think we'll have to
`indicate what the exhibit numbers would
`be for these, and I'm not sure what the
`last exhibit number was in each of these
`proceedings.
`But to answer your question, yes,
`we are fine with that. I just want to
`make sure we follow the appropriate
`protocol.
`
`10:34
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`MR. MANGRUM: Yeah. I think
`that's what -- that's what I'm going to
`do. And what may be easiest is -- I'm
`about to ask which ones have been
`tabbed. And then, for those that have
`been tabbed, when you -- when you submit
`them as exhibits, we just add the 100
`number.
`So for Exhibit -- the one we just
`mentioned, Exhibit 1002 in the 1800
`matter, we could submit it in
`Exhibit 1102.
`Does that make sense --
`MR. CITROËN: Yeah, but I
`think --
`MR. MANGRUM: -- that way, we can
`kind of --
`MR. CITROËN: -- I think it would
`be attachments -- sorry, I didn't mean
`to interrupt -- I think there will be
`attachments to the deposition transcript
`so that -- I think there will be a 2,000
`number to the deposition. I -- I think
`for the -- we can just do this right now 10:35
`
`10:34
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`10:35
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`really quickly, I think -- for the '723
`proceeding, the next exhibit number
`would be 2007.
`So I don't know if you want to
`identify the transcript for this
`deposition as 2007 and then the first
`exhibit, which would be the tabbed
`declaration, would be 2008. I think
`it's up to you which number you would do
`it, but I think that's probably -- since
`it will be submitted as part of the
`deposition transcript since it's a
`deposition exhibit, that that would be
`the way we should do this.
`MR. MANGRUM: Okay. We can -- we
`can figure that out.
`So let's go ahead and mark the
`Exhibit 1002 as Exhibit 2008.
`MR. CITROËN: Okay. And this is
`for proceeding -- just so we're clear,
`this is for the 1800 proceeding for the
`'723 patent?
`MR. MANGRUM: Yes. Yes, sir.
`MR. CITROËN: Okay.
`
`10:35
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`10:35
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`10:36
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`- - -
`(Deposition Exhibit Number Number
`2008, Declaration of Dr. Zygmunt
`J. Haas, marked for
`identification, as of this
`date.)
`- - -
`
`10:36
`
`BY MR. MANGRUM:
`Q.
`While we're doing that, Dr. Haas,
`just to make certain we do the same for your
`other declaration, you also submitted a
`declaration in the 1799 matter, correct?
`A.
`I submitted a declaration with
`respect to the '747 patent.
`Q.
`Yes, sir.
`And -- and can you also -- I
`understand you brought that with you. You
`mentioned that.
`Have you also tabbed that in a
`similar matter -- in a similar manner?
`A.
`What do you mean "similar
`matter"? I also attached -- excuse me -- I
`also attached sticky notes, color sticky notes,
`with some of them have a claim element written
`
`10:36
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`10:36
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`10:37
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`10:37
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`on those sticky notes in writing -- in my
`handwriting, yes, just the -- just the
`number --
`Q.
`A.
`and letter.
`
`Okay. Go ahead.
`-- just the number -- the number
`
`10:37
`
`MR. MANGRUM: Let's -- let's then
`mark that exhibit as 2009 -- and by
`"that exhibit," I mean your declaration
`filed in IPR2017-1799 as Exhibit 1002
`[sic] -- let's mark that one as
`Exhibit 2009.
`
`- - -
`(Deposition Exhibit Number 2009,
`Declaration of Dr. Zygmunt J.
`Haas, marked for identification,
`as of this date.)
`- - -
`
`BY MR. MANGRUM:
`Q.
`Now, for ease of record and to
`make certain we're talking on the same page,
`I'm going to refer to Exhibit 2008 when I'm
`asking you about your declaration file in the
`1800 matter, Exhibit 1002 as filed.
`
`10:37
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`Do you understand that?
`I understand that you'll be
`A.
`referring to the -- my declaration in the
`matter of the '723 patent as Exhibit 2008, sir.
`Q.
`Excellent.
`And then you understand I'll be
`referring to Exhibit 2009 as the declaration
`you filed addressing the '747 patent?
`A.
`Yes, sir.
`Q.
`Okay. Good.
`This is just to make certain that
`when you and I are referring -- separately
`referring to documents, that the pages and
`paragraphs, et cetera -- that we are looking at
`the same thing --
`A.
`I understand.
`Q.
`-- so the question -- on the same
`
`10:38
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`10:39
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`10:39
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`page.
`
`I understand, sir.
`A.
`Okay. Now, with respect to
`Q.
`the -- the references -- other references you
`mentioned -- let me be specific.
`With respect to the Griffin
`reference, U.S. Patent Number 8,150,922, that
`
`10:39
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`UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT, NOT PROOFED, READ, EDITED
`was filed in both of these related matters as
`Exhibit 1005, do you have any annotations or
`sticky notes attached to that document?
`A.
`I don't have, sir, any sticky
`notes attached to this document and there's no
`notes or any other marking on this document.
`The only thing that there are
`are -- excuse me -- are pages that separate
`those documents, sir.
`Q.
`I understand.
`Okay. So I want to refer to that
`document as either the Griffin reference or
`Exhibit 1005. And just to make it easier for
`us, I'll probably refer to it as Griffin.
`Can you agree to that?
`That would be definitely
`A.
`acceptable -- easier for me if you refer to
`this as Griffin.
`Q.
`Okay. And we're both using the
`name Griffin.
`
`10:40
`
`10:40
`
`Griffin -- why don't you pull
`that document out so it's in front of you.
`A.
`I have it in front of me, sir.
`Q.
`Excellent.
`
`10:40
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`Now, when you look at the first
`page of that Griffin document, you see, on the
`top right-hand side of the first page, the
`first named inventor is Chris Michael Griffin.
`Do you see that?
`The inventor of this patent
`A.
`-- the first inventor is Chris Michael Griffin,
`sir.
`
`10:41
`
`And on the bottom on that
`Q.
`document that you're looking at, you see a
`footer inserted by Samsung that says, Samsung
`Exhibit 1005.
`
`Is that correct?
`This is correct, sir.
`A.
`And in the upper right-hand
`Q.
`corner, you see a U.S. Patent Number 8,150,922;
`is that correct?
`A.
`That's correct, and there's also
`a B2 as well.
`Q.
`
`Yes, thank you.
`Okay. I want to ask you --
`let -- let's start with this document. I want
`to draw your attention to various portions of
`this document to make sure I understand the
`
`10:41
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`10:41
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`testimony you offered with respect to this
`document.
`
`I'll first draw your attention --
`let's start with Figure 2 of this document.
`And the -- the -- the page -- the page
`numbering on this document in the lower left
`puts it at Page 3 of 19.
`Do you see that?
`Yes, I do, sir. It's Page 3 of
`
`A.
`19, sir.
`Okay. And how many types of
`Q.
`networks are shown here in Figure 2 of Griffin?
`MR. CITROËN: Objection: form.
`THE WITNESS: How many types?
`Sir, I'm not exactly sure I understand
`your question.
`There is a bubble, so to speak,
`with -- with -- marking 203, which has a
`network inside this bubble. And then
`there -- there are two bubbles, both of
`them marked as 202. The first one has
`Wireless Carrier 1 written inside, and
`the second one has Wireless Carrier 2
`written inside, sir.
`
`10:42
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`10:43
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`10:43
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`UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT, NOT PROOFED, READ, EDITED
`BY MR. MANGRUM:
`Q.
`And the one that you refer to as
`Wireless Carrier 1 and 2, you see where those
`are indicated by Reference Numbers 202?
`A.
`Yes, I mentioned it, both of
`those bubbles, the Wireless Carrier 1 and
`Wireless Carrier 2, both of those bubbles have
`a label of 202, 202.
`Q.
`And Number -- the -- the network
`to the right of that has Reference Number 203.
`Do you see that?
`Yes. That's what I said before.
`A.
`The next -- this bubble has a label, Number
`203, sir.
`Do you understand that the
`Q.
`networks identified with Reference Number 202
`are identical to the network that is identified
`as Reference 203?
`MR. CITROËN: Objection: form.
`THE WITNESS: I'm not sure I
`understand the question.
`Are you asking me whether those
`network are identical?
`
`10:43
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`10:43
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`10:44
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`BY MR. MANGRUM:
`Q.
`Not 202 with respect to the chart
`but the 202 that's compared to 203.
`MR. CITROËN: Objection: form.
`THE WITNESS: You're asking me
`whether the 202 and 203 are identical?
`Is this your question, sir?
`BY MR. MANGRUM:
`Q.
`Yes. Yes. Just I'm asking
`you -- let's compare the two. Help me
`understand your understanding of the
`differences, if any, between networks 202 and
`the network 203.
`A.
`Okay, sir --
`MR. CITROËN: Object to form.
`I'm sorry.
`THE WITNESS: -- okay, sir. So
`let me go to the body of the patent, the
`Griffin patent. And I'm looking at --
`I'm looking at the --
`Column Number 2 [sic] -- I'm looking at
`Column Number 2 [sic], Line -- well,
`let's start with Line 49. It talks
`about Figure 2 illustrates the overall
`
`10:44
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`UNCERTIFIED ROUGH DRAFT, NOT PROOFED, READ, EDITED
`system architecture of a wireless
`communication system comprising a
`plurality of mobile terminals 100 in
`accordance -- in accordance with the
`present invention.
`Then it talks about -- I'm
`skipping a little bit here -- it talks
`about [as read] the terminal 100
`communicate with at least one chat
`server complex 204 by wirelessly
`transmitting data to a corresponding
`wireless carrier infrastructure 202.
`I repeat, wireless carrier
`infrastructure 202 --
`BY MR. MANGRUM:
`Q.
`And --
`A.
`Yes, sir?
`Q.
`I didn't mean to cut you off.
`Is that your -- is that your full
`
`10:45
`
`10:46
`
`10:46
`
`answer?
`No, not yet, sir -- not yet, sir.
`A.
`Okay. Please continue.
`Q.
`A little bit later in Line 59, it
`A.
`says, [as read] The data packets are sent on to 10:46
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`a communication network 203 that forward them
`onto the server complex 204. The communication
`network 203, which is packet-based network, may
`comprise a public network such as the Internet
`or World Wide Web, a private network such as
`corporate intranet, or some combination of the
`public and private network components.
`So those are the descriptions of
`the two networks, 202 and 203, that you asked
`me to look at.
`Q.
`Yes. Is there a description of
`the infrastructure of networks 202?
`MR. CITROËN: Objection: form.
`THE WITNESS: I am not exactly
`sure what you mean. But if I may
`continue
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