ZYGMUNT J. HAAS, PH.D.
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` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
` ________________
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
` ________________
` SAMSUNG ELECTRONICS AMERICA, INC.,
` Petitioner,
` v.
` UNILOC LUXEMBOURG, S.A.
` Patent Owner
` ________________
`
` IPR2017-01799
` U.S. Patent No. 8,199,747
` AND
` IPR2017-01800
` U.S. Patent No. 8,243,723
` ________________
` VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF ZYGMUNT J. HAAS, PH.D.
` Monday, June 4, 2018; 10:07 a.m.
`
`Job No. 4332
`Pgs. 1 - 121
`Reported by: Cindy L. Sebo, RMR, CRR, RPR, CSR,
`CCR, CLR, RSA, LiveDeposition Authorized Reporter
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` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
` ________________
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
` ________________
` SAMSUNG ELECTRONICS AMERICA, INC.,
` Petitioner,
` v.
` UNILOC LUXEMBOURG, S.A.
` Patent Owner
` ________________
`
` IPR2017-01799
` U.S. Patent No. 8,199,747
` AND
` IPR2017-01800
` U.S. Patent No. 8,243,723
` ________________
` VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF ZYGMUNT J. HAAS, PH.D.
` Monday, June 4, 2018; 10:07 a.m.
`
`Job No. 4332
`Pgs. 1 - 121
`Reported by: Cindy L. Sebo, RMR, CRR, RPR, CSR,
`CCR, CLR, RSA, LiveDeposition Authorized Reporter
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`ZYGMUNT J. HAAS, PH.D.
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`2
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` Videotaped deposition of
`ZYGMUNT J. HAAS, PH.D., taken by the Patent
`Holder, held at the law offices of Paul Hastings
`LLP, 875 15th Street, Northwest, Washington, D.C.
`20005, before Cindy L. Sebo, Registered Merit
`Court Reporter, Certified Real-Time Reporter,
`Registered Professional Reporter, Certified
`Shorthand Reporter, Certified Court Reporter,
`Certified LiveNote Reporter, Real-Time Systems
`Administrator, LiveDeposition Authorized Reporter
`and Notary Public in and for the District of
`Columbia, beginning at approximately 10:07 a.m.,
`when were present on behalf of the respective
`parties:
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` A P P E A R A N C E S:
`
` Attorney for Petitioner:
` PAUL HASTINGS LLP
` PHILLIP W. CITROËN, ESQUIRE
` MICHAEL A. WOLFE, ESQUIRE
` 875 15th Street, Northwest
` Washington, D.C. 20005
` 202.551.1991
` phillipcitroen@paulhastings.com
` michaelwolfe@paulhastings.com
`
` Attorney for Patent Owner:
` ETHRIDGE LAW GROUP
` BRETT MANGRUM, ESQUIRE
` 2600 East Southlake Boulevard
` Suite 120-324
` Southlake, Texas 76092
` 214.334.5497
` brett@ethridgelaw.com
`
`ALSO PRESENT:
` APRIL CARTER, Videographer
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` INDEX OF EXAMINATION
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`ZYGMUNT J. HAAS, PH.D.
`EXAMINATION BY PAGE
` Mr. Mangrum 9
` - - -
` INDEX TO EXHIBITS
` - - -
`
` DEPOSITION
` EXHIBIT NUMBER DESCRIPTION PAGE
` Exhibit 2008 Declaration of Dr. Zygmunt
` J. Haas 27
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` Exhibit 2009 Declaration of Dr. Zygmunt
` J. Haas 29
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` (Exhibits Attached to the Original Transcript.)
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`ZYGMUNT J. HAAS, PH.D.
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` ZYGMUNT J. HAAS, PH.D.
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` P R O C E E D I N G S
`
` Washington, D.C.
` June 4, 2018; 10:07 a.m.
`
` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Here begins
` Volume 1, Disc 1 in the video deposition
` of Dr. Zygmunt J. Haas, taken in the
` matter of Samsung Electronics America
` versus Uniloc Luxembourg S.A., in the
` Patent Trial and Appeal Board.
` Today's date is June 4th, 2018.
` This deposition is being held at
` 875 15th Street, Northwest,
` Washington, D.C. 20005.
` The court reporter is Cindy Sebo,
` on behalf of DepoCam LLC. The video
` camera operator is April Carter, on
` behalf of DepoCam LLC.
` Will counsel please introduce
` themselves and state whom they
` represent, beginning with the party
` noticing the deposition?
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` ZYGMUNT J. HAAS, PH.D.
` MR. MANGRUM: This is
` Brett Mangrum with the Ethridge Law
` Group representing the Patent Owner,
` Uniloc S.A. Luxembourg.
` MR. CITROËN: And this is
` Phillip Citroën for Paul Hastings, with
` Michael Wolfe, also with Paul Hastings,
` on behalf of Petitioner, Samsung.
` THE COURT REPORTER: We need to
` go off the record for a second.
` MR. CITROËN: Okay. Off the
` record.
` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Off the
` record.
` - - -
` (Whereupon, a discussion was held
` off the record.)
` - - -
` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: On the record
` at 10:08.
` And will the court reporter
` please swear in the witness?
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` ZYGMUNT J. HAAS, PH.D.
` - - -
` ZYGMUNT J. HAAS, PH.D.,
` after having been first duly sworn, was
` examined and testified as follows:
` - - -
` THE COURT REPORTER: The witness
` is sworn.
` MR. CITROËN: And, Brett, before
` we get started, just really quickly,
` Petitioner wants to object on the record
` that this is the first we learned that
` the deposition will be conducted in this
` manner.
` The deposition notice states that
` the deposition may be conducted video --
` videoconferencing. Today we learned
` that the deposition is being video
` streamed in one direction; we cannot see
` the questioner or anyone else on the
` other end of the connection. So this is
` not technically a "videoconference."
` We reserve the right to seek any
` appropriate relief, but we can continue
` with the deposition.
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` ZYGMUNT J. HAAS, PH.D.
` MR. MANGRUM: I'll just state for
` the record, then, that -- and I'm happy
` to submit as -- as exhibits, the e-mail
` communications indicating agreement that
` the videoconference could be
` videorecorded and that is all that's
` required; also express agreement through
` e-mail communication that the deposition
` could be taken remotely.
` And so your objection is noted,
` but I will just submit, to the extent
` necessary, we're happy to provide
` exhibits, e-mail communications that
` showed a meeting of the minds with
` respect to exactly what we're doing
` today.
` MR. CITROËN: And just one
` clarification to -- to videorecording,
` not video streaming.
` But let's continue.
` Thank you.
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` ZYGMUNT J. HAAS, PH.D.
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` EXAMINATION
` - - -
`BY MR. MANGRUM:
` Q. Dr. Haas, would you state your
`name and full address for the record?
` A. I'm sorry. Are -- are you asking
`me, sir?
` Q. Yes.
` A. Yes. My last name is Haas,
`H-A-A-S; my first name is Zygmunt,
`Z-Y-G-M-U-N-T. My address is 280 West Renner,
`R-E-N-N-E-R, Road, Number 4321, Richardson,
`Texas 75080.
` Q. I was also -- I lived in
`Richardson for a while. It looks like we were
`close to being neighbors at one point.
` A. I'm sorry, sir?
` Q. I'll -- I was just mentioning the
`fact that I -- at one point, I lived in
`Richardson, Texas as well. So --
` A. Yeah, it's --
` Q. -- it sounds like we were
`neighbors at one point, or close to.
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` A. Yes. It's a very nice place,
`sir.
` THE COURT REPORTER: We need to
` go off the record again -- we need to go
` off the record again, please.
` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Off the record
` at 10:11.
` - - -
` (Whereupon, a discussion was held
` off the record.)
` - - -
` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: On the record
` at 10:12.
`BY MR. MANGRUM:
` Q. Now, I want to be certain I'm
`pronouncing your name correctly.
` It's Dr. Haas?
` A. Haas, yes. Haas, H-A-A-S, Haas.
` Q. Haas.
` Okay. Have you been deposed
`before?
` A. Yes, I have been, sir.
` Q. And in what capacity did you
`testify previously?
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` ZYGMUNT J. HAAS, PH.D.
` A. Well, I have been depose --
`deposed in other IPR matters. I have been also
`deposed with respect to District Court
`litigations.
` Q. And in approximately how many IPR
`matters have you been deposed?
` A. Oh, I can give you a very rough
`estimate, sir. So please do not hold me to the
`number.
` I would say probably around 15
`times in IPR matters. But, again, I want to
`make sure that I'm clear that it's just an
`estimate and I may not remember the number
`exactly, sir.
` Q. Understood.
` That was 1-5, 15, you said?
` A. 1-5, yes, sir.
` Q. Okay. And is English your first
`language?
` A. My first language, sir?
` Q. Yes.
` A. I -- I speak Polish, and I speak
`Hebrew.
` Q. Okay. If -- if I read a question
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` ZYGMUNT J. HAAS, PH.D.
`or speak the question too quickly or if, in
`some way, you don't understand the question,
`will you please just ask me to clarify or to
`slow down?
` A. I sure will, sir.
` Q. Thank you.
` And I will do my best to
`articulate questions as slowly and clearly as
`possible.
` A. Thank you, sir.
` Q. To make certain -- okay.
` And to make certain that we have
`a clear record, it will be helpful if, when I
`ask a question, you respond with a yes or a no,
`as opposed to, like, a head nod or an uh-huh,
`or something like that, so, like, a word that
`can be understood by the court reporter.
` Does that make sense?
` A. I will do my best, sir.
` Q. Okay. And if, during the
`deposition, you need to take a break, will you
`please just let me know?
` A. I sure will, sir.
` Q. And I would only ask that if a
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` ZYGMUNT J. HAAS, PH.D.
`question is pending -- so if I've asked a
`question and you either have not yet answered
`or you haven't completed your answer, I would
`ask that you first answer the question fully
`and completely before taking a break.
` Can we agree to that?
` A. Absolutely, sir.
` Q. Great.
` And is there anything preventing
`you from testifying truthfully and accurately
`today?
` A. No, there's nothing that I can
`think of, sir.
` Q. Okay. You understand that you're
`testifying under oath today?
` A. Absolutely, sir.
` Q. And you also understand you're
`being deposed today in two related matters --
` A. Well --
` Q. -- IPR matters?
` A. -- well, I understand, sir, that
`there are two patents in separate IPRs, I
`believe. If I understand this correctly, there
`are two patents, which I refer to as '723 and
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`'747 patents, which I think I will be dis --
`deposed on today, sir.
` Q. Yes. And that's exactly what I
`wanted to accomplish, was make certain that you
`and I agree on some way of referring to these
`IPR matters and to these patents so that we
`don't talk past one another.
` So I think that's a good idea.
`Let's refer to the -- the matter
`IPR2017-1799 -- I will refer to that matter as
`the 1799 matter, so the last four digits of
`that matter. And the patent challenged in that
`matter, I'll refer to, as you stated, the
`'747 patent, which is the last three numbers of
`that patent.
` Do you understand that -- that
`terminology?
` A. Yes, sir, I do.
` Q. Okay. And for the other one, the
`same: I'll refer to that other matter by its
`last four numbers, or the 1800 IPR. And the --
`for the patent challenged in that matter, as
`you just suggested, I'll refer to that patent
`by its last three digits, or the '723 patent.
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` Do you understand that?
` A. Yes, sir.
` Q. Good.
` Okay. So that will be helpful
`for this discussion.
` Do you have an understanding of
`what is meant of the term "priority date" of
`a patent?
` A. Well, sir, I am looking at my
`'723 declaration. And as I state in
`Paragraph 13 of the declaration, which is on
`Page 7, I'm saying here -- I'm quoting from the
`middle of this paragraph -- that the
`specification of the '723 patent at the time of
`the alleged invention, which I have been asked
`to consider as the late 2003 time frame,
`including the December 18, 2003 filing date of
`the U.S. Patent Application Number -- and so on
`and so on.
` Q. And if I understand your answer
`correctly, that -- that December 18th, 2003
`date is the priority date you assumed for the
`'723 patent?
` A. So, sir, I do not use the term
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` ZYGMUNT J. HAAS, PH.D.
`"priority date" here. I am just saying that
`this is the time frame -- late 2003 is the time
`frame at which I have considered in stating my
`opinion as the date -- as the date that my
`opinion -- opinions are related to.
` Q. Okay. So if I understand your
`answer, then, you -- and I'm starting to ask a
`question; hopefully, you can still answer it --
`you looked at the art, in your opinion, as it
`existed in December 18th, 2003.
` That is -- that is the date by
`which you analyzed the relevant art?
` MR. CITROËN: Objection: form.
` THE WITNESS: To be more precise,
` I was asked to consider the time frame
` as late 2003, including December 18,
` 2003.
` I say "late 2003" because I do
` not believe that my opinions would be
` different if there is a difference of a
` couple of months, so to speak, or
` several months in 2003.
` So I said late 2003 time frame,
` which would be including also
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` ZYGMUNT J. HAAS, PH.D.
` December 18, 2003 filing date, sir.
`BY MR. MANGRUM:
` Q. Understood.
` And am I correct in -- in
`understanding your declaration that you
`actually did not state a definitive hierarchy
`date or use that phrase in your declaration?
` A. To my recollection, sir, unless
`you point me otherwise, I do not recall using
`the term "priority date" in my declaration,
`sir.
` Q. Now, I understand you were, just
`a moment ago, reading from your declaration in
`the -- declaration to the '723 patent in the
`1800 matter; is that correct?
` A. I was reading from the '723
`declaration, yes, sir. And I said -- I believe
`I mentioned it -- that I'm reading from my '723
`declaration, sir.
` Q. Yes, sir.
` As I look at your documents,
`the -- that '723 declaration, just for the
`record, it -- it has, on the very first page,
`an Exhibit 1002 on the bottom right-hand side.
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` ZYGMUNT J. HAAS, PH.D.
` Do you see that?
` A. Exhibit 1002 -- 2- -- it actually
`says Samsung Exhibit 1002, sir.
` Q. Yes, okay.
` And is this a document you
`brought with you to your deposition?
` A. This is one of the documents that
`I have brought with me today to the deposition,
`sir.
` Q. And what other documents have you
`brought with you today to the deposition?
` A. So as you already -- as you
`already discussed, I brought the declaration --
`my declaration with respect to the '723 patent,
`which, as we mentioned before, is Samsung
`Exhibit 1002. I also brought to the dep --
`deposition today a declaration -- my
`declaration with respect to the patent '747,
`sir --
` Q. Yes.
` A. -- I also brought -- and I -- I
`want to mention that I -- in both of those
`declarations, I added tabs here that would help
`me simply to find the particular page quicker,
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` ZYGMUNT J. HAAS, PH.D.
`so to speak. So those are just tabs, color
`tabs, that have numbers of a particular claim
`or claim element on these tabs.
` There are also white tabs that
`show the '747 patent declaration, for example.
` I also brought the --
` Q. So -- I'm sorry. Continue.
` A. -- I also brought with me today,
`sir, another binder, in which I have the
`following documents here, sir: There is
`Exhibit 1001, which is the '723 patent; I have
`Exhibit 1003, which is Z. Haas CV, which is my
`CV, sir; there is another exhibit, 1001, which
`is the '747 patent; there is Exhibit 1005,
`which is labeled as Griffin, which is the
`Griffin patent; there is Exhibit 1006, which is
`the Zydney, Z-Y-D-N-E-Y, patent -- patent;
`there's Exhibit 1008, which is Vaananen,
`V-A-A-N-A-N-E-N, patent; there's Exhibit 1013,
`which is RC1521/MIME, M-I-M-E; there's
`Exhibit 1022, which is the '890 patent; there
`is Exhibit 1024, which is Newton's, in
`parentheses, 16 -- 16; there is Exhibit 1025,
`IM Security, which is -- there is Exhibit 1026,
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`which is IM Systems; there's Exhibit 1027;
`which is VoIP -- of course, stands for voice
`over IP -- there's Document 1028, which is IN
`in Java; there's Document 1029, which is Guide
`to Chart Apps; there is Exhibit I -- I'm
`sorry -- there's Exhibit 1030, which is IN and
`Presence Technologies; there is Exhibit --
`excuse me -- Exhibit 1031, which is
`Delivery VoIP Networks; there is Exhibit 1032,
`which is Cheat at VoIP Security; there is
`Exhibit 1033, which is Newton's, in
`parentheses, 18; there's Exhibit 1034, which is
`IEEE 802.11 standardization; there is
`Exhibit 1035, which is Unlicensed Innovation,
`Wi-Fi; there is Exhibit 103 -- 36, which is
`Disbonder (phonetic); there is Exhibit 1037,
`which is Appelman; there's Exhibit 1038, which
`is -- which is Scherzer; there's Exhibit 1039,
`which is Liu. This is the second binder.
` I also have in the third binder
`here, sir, the file histories, which is
`Exhibit 1004, file history of the '747 patent;
`Exhibit 1004 [verbatim], which is file history
`of the '723 patent; and there's Exhibit 1021,
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` ZYGMUNT J. HAAS, PH.D.
`which is file history of the '890 patent, sir.
` Q. Thank you for reading through
`that. I appreciate you letting me know what
`you actually brought with you to the
`deposition.
` You mentioned earlier in -- in
`talking about the very first document that you
`identified, which was your declaration,
`Exhibit 1002, addressing the '723 patent -- you
`mentioned you had tabs physically attached to
`the document; is that correct?
` A. There are tabs which are -- so
`there are -- there's a -- they are divide --
`divider pages, which are white pages, which
`have the Exhibit 1002, '747 declaration tab on
`it. And there are also tabs which I, myself,
`added, which are, like, sticky notes, in three
`different colors: red, green, and yellow.
` And on those tabs -- some of
`those tabs are marked the claim element or
`claim number that starts on a page at which
`this tab -- or close to where this tab is being
`placed.
` I -- I hope I'm clear.
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` ZYGMUNT J. HAAS, PH.D.
` Q. So if I understand you correctly,
`there are essentially some writings on top of
`tabs that are physically attached to the
`document; is that correct?
` A. Right.
` On those tabs --
` Q. Okay.
` A. -- just as an example, if you
`wish -- for example, I have a tab -- green tab
`here which says 1E on this, which, when I open
`it, will open on page which -- which has --
`which allows me to read the Element 1E, for
`example.
` I don't know if it's clear.
` Q. Apart -- apart from the -- the
`tabs that you physically attached to the
`documents, have you taken notes or written
`directly onto the document itself?
` A. There's no notes or any writing
`on those documents -- my own writing -- my --
`in other words, any notes, if you wish. That's
`what I mean by "writing."
` Q. Only your writing is on tabs that
`are affixed to the documents?
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` A. The only writing in handwriting
`are on the --
` Q. Yes.
` A. -- tabs themselves, on the -- on
`the color tabs, sir. The white tabs are
`printed.
` Q. And is -- is it your intention to
`answer today -- today based off the handwritten
`notes you -- I'm sorry. Let me -- let me
`rephrase the question.
` Is your intention today to use
`the handwritten tabs or the -- or the typed
`tabs in order to answer the questions today?
` MR. CITROËN: Objection: form.
` THE WITNESS: I am not exactly
` sure that I understand your question,
` sir.
` I put those tabs to allow me to
` quickly open my document -- my
` declaration to an appropriate page. I'm
` not sure if this clarifies the purpose
` of the tabs, sir.
` MR. MANGRUM: Yeah. So just on
` the record -- and speaking now to you,
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` ZYGMUNT J. HAAS, PH.D.
` Mr. Citroën -- we would ask that to the
` extent he plans on testifying --
` THE COURT REPORTER: I'm sorry?
` MR. MANGRUM: My understanding is
` the -- the court reporting team has
` nontabbed copies, just clean copies
` as -- as filed.
` And so I will just request one of
` two things, either opposing counsel
` agrees to produce the documents that
` he's using right now with all the tabs
` attached -- and when I say "produced,"
` to snail mail them to us -- I can give
` you an address -- and we plan on using
` them. But we just want to have access
` to them after the fact, you know,
` without any alteration, you know, with
` all the tabs it takes.
` And to the extent you're willing
` to agree to that, then we're fine
` proceeding, for a matter of expediency,
` using the documents that he has tabbed
` and brought with him today.
` MR. CITROËN: Sure. I think we
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` ZYGMUNT J. HAAS, PH.D.
` can agree to that. But I think probably
` the appropriate way to handle this is to
` give it to the court reporter after the
` deposition, and she can label them as
` exhibits.
` But I think we'll have to
` indicate what the exhibit numbers would
` be for these, and I'm not sure what the
` last exhibit number was in each of these
` proceedings.
` But to answer your question, yes,
` we are fine with that. I just want to
` make sure we follow the appropriate
` protocol.
` MR. MANGRUM: Yeah. I think
` that's what -- that's what I'm going to
` do. And what may be easiest is -- I'm
` about to ask which ones have been
` tabbed. And then, for those that have
` been tabbed, when you -- when you submit
` them as exhibits, we just add the 100
` number.
` So for Exhibit -- the one we just
` mentioned, Exhibit 1002 in the 1800
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` ZYGMUNT J. HAAS, PH.D.
` matter, we could submit it in
` Exhibit 1102.
` Does that make sense --
` MR. CITROËN: Yeah, but I
` think --
` MR. MANGRUM: -- that way, we can
` kind of --
` MR. CITROËN: -- I think it would
` be attachments -- sorry. I didn't mean
` to interrupt -- I think they'll be
` attachments to the deposition transcript
` so that -- I think there will be a 2000
` number to the deposition. I -- I think
` for the -- we can just do this right now
` really quickly, I think -- for the '723
` proceeding, the next exhibit number
` would be 2007.
` So I don't know if you want to
` identify the transcript [sic] for this
` deposition as 2007, and then the first
` exhibit, which would be the tabbed
` declaration, would be 2008. I think
` it's up to you which number you would do
` it, but I think that's probably -- since
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` ZYGMUNT J. HAAS, PH.D.
` it will be submitted as part of the
` deposition transcript, since it's a
` deposition exhibit, that that would be
` the way we should do this.
` MR. MANGRUM: Okay. We can -- we
` can figure that out.
` So let's go ahead and mark the
` Exhibit 1002 as Exhibit 2008.
` MR. CITROËN: Okay. And this is
` for proceeding -- just so we're clear,
` this is for the 1800 proceeding for the
` '723 patent?
` MR. MANGRUM: Yes. Yes, sir.
` MR. CITROËN: Okay.
` - - -
` (Deposition Exhibit Number 2008,
` Declaration of Dr. Zygmunt J.
` Haas, marked for identification,
` as of this date.)
` - - -
`BY MR. MANGRUM:
` Q. While we're doing that, Dr. Haas,
`just to make certain we do the same for your
`other declaration, you also submitted a
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` ZYGMUNT J. HAAS, PH.D.
`declaration in the 1799 matter, correct?
` A. I submitted a declaration with
`respect to the '747 patent.
` Q. Yes, sir.
` And -- and can you also -- I
`understand you brought that with you. You
`mentioned that.
` Have you also tabbed that in a
`similar matter -- in a similar manner?
` A. What do you mean "similar
`matter"? I also attached -- excuse me -- I
`also attached sticky notes, color sticky notes,
`with -- some of them have a claim element
`written on those sticky notes in writing -- in
`my handwriting, yes, just the -- just the
`number --
` Q. Okay. Go ahead.
` A. -- just the number -- the number
`and letter.
` MR. MANGRUM: Let's -- let's,
` then, mark that exhibit as 2009 -- and
` by "that exhibit," I mean your
` declaration filed in IPR2017-1799 as
` Exhibit 1002 [sic] -- let's mark that
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` ZYGMUNT J. HAAS, PH.D.
` one as Exhibit 2009.
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` (Deposition Exhibit Number 2009,
` Declaration of Dr. Zygmunt J.
` Haas, marked for identification,
` as of this date.)
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`BY MR. MANGRUM:
` Q. Now, for ease of record, and to
`make certain we're talking on the same page,
`I'm going to refer to Exhibit 2008 when I'm
`asking you about your declaration file in the
`1800 matter, Exhibit 1002 as filed.
` Do you understand that?
` A. I understand that you'll be
`referring to the -- my declaration in the
`matter of the '723 patent as Exhibit 2008, sir.
` Q. Excellent.
` And then you understand I'll be
`referring to Exhibit 2009 as the declaration
`you filed addressing the '747 patent?
` A. Yes, sir.
` Q. Okay. Good.
` This is just to make certain that
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` ZYGMUNT J. HAAS, PH.D.
`when you and I are referring -- separately
`referring to documents, that the pages and
`paragraphs, et cetera -- that we are looking at
`the same thing --
` A. I understand.
` Q. -- so the question -- on the same
`page.
` A. I understand, sir.
` Q. Okay. Now, with respect to
`the -- the references -- other references you
`mentioned -- let me be specific.
` With respect to the Griffin
`reference, U.S. Patent Number 8,150,922, that
`was filed in both of these related matters as
`Exhibit 1005, do you have any annotations or
`sticky notes attached to that document?
` A. I don't have, sir, any sticky
`notes attached to this document, and there's no
`notes or any other marking on this document.
` The only thing that there are,
`are -- excuse me -- are pages that separate
`those documents, sir.
` Q. I understand.
` Okay. So I want to refer to that
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` ZYGMUNT J. HAAS, PH.D.
`document as either the "Griffin reference" or
`"Exhibit 1005." And just to make it easier for
`us, I'll probably refer to it as Griffin.
` Can you agree to that?
` A. That would be definitely
`acceptable -- easier for me if you refer to
`this as "Griffin."
` Q. Okay. And we're both using the
`name Griffin.
` Griffin -- why don't you pull
`that document out so it's in front of you?
` A. I have it in front of me, sir.
` Q. Excellent.
` Now, when you look at the first
`page of that Griffin document, you see, on the
`top right-hand side of the first page, the
`first named inventor is Chris Michael Griffin.
` Do you see that?
` A. The inventor of this
`patent -- the first inventor is Chris Michael
`Griffin, sir.
` Q. And on the bottom on that
`document that you're looking at, you see a
`footer inserted by Samsung that says Samsung
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`Exhibit 1005.
` Is that correct?
` A. That's correct, sir.
` Q. And in the upper right-hand
`corner, you see a U.S. Patent Number 8,150,922;
`is that correct?
` A. That's correct. And there's also
`a B2 a
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