`
`
`
`UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`
`BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`WATSON LABORATORIES,
`
`INC.,
`
`Petitioner,
`
`vs.
`
`UNITED THERAPEUTICS CORP.,
`
`Patent Owner.
`
`)
`
`)
`
`)
`
`)
`
`)
`
`IPR NO. 2017-01621
`
`IPR NO. 2017-01622
`
`
`
`The videotaped deposition of SCOTT
`
`BENNETT, Ph.D., called for examination,
`
`taken
`
`pursuant to the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure of
`
`the United States District Courts pertaining to the
`
`taking of depositions,
`
`taken before Lynn A. McCauley,
`
`CSR No. 84-003268, RPR, a Certified Shorthand
`
`
`
`Reporter of the State of Illinois, at 35 West Wacker
`
`Drive, 48th Floor, Chicago, Illinois, on March 29,
`
`2018,
`
`‘at, Seo am.
`
`Job No. 54282
`
`UNITED THERAPEUTICS, EX. 2033
`WATSON LABORATORIESv. UNITED THERAPEUTICS, IPR2017-01622
`Page 1 of 137
`
`
`
`
`
`PRESENT:
`
`Appeared on behalf of Petitioner:
`WINSTON & STRAWN LLP
`1700 K Street, NW
`Washington, DC 20006
`202-282-5896
`
`BY:
`
`ANDREW R. SOMMER, ESO
`asommer@winston.com
`
`and
`
`Appeared on behalf of Patent Owner:
`WILSON SONSINI GOODRICH & ROSATI
`
`1700 K Street, NW, Fifth Floor
`Washington, DC 20006-3817
`202-973-8812
`BY:
`VERONICA S. ASCARRUNZ, ESQ.
`vascarrunz@wsgr.com
`
`
`
`DAVID FELDMAN WORLDWIDE, INC. - A VERITEXT COMPANY
`330 Old Country Road - Ste. 300, Mineola, NY 11501 1.800.727.4396
`UNITED THERAPEUTICS, EX. 2033
`WATSON LABORATORIESv. UNITED THERAPEUTICS, IPR2017-01622
`Page 2 of 137
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`WITNESS:
`SCOTT BENNETT
`
`EXAMINATION BY:
`MS. ASCARRUNZ
`MR. SOMMER
`
`EXHIBITS:
`
`Exhibit 1013
`
`Exhibit 1014
`
`INDEX
`
`Page
`
`101
`
`Line
`
`23
`
`DESCRIPTION
`Copy of declaration
`by Dr. Bennett that
`was submitted in
`trial No.
`IPR
`2017-01621 in
`connection with
`
`Patent 9,358,240
`Copy of declaration
`by Dr. Bennett that
`was submitted in
`Trial No.
`IPR
`2017-01622 in
`connection with
`Patent 9,339,507
`
`12
`
`*** Attorney retained all exhibits.
`
`
`
`DAVID FELDMAN WORLDWIDE, INC. - A VERITEXT COMPANY
`330 Old Country Road - Ste. 300, Mineola, NY 11501 1.800.727.4396
`UNITED THERAPEUTICS, EX. 2033
`WATSON LABORATORIES v. UNITED THERAPEUTICS, IPR2017-01622
`Page 3 of 137
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`THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We are now on the record.
`
`This marks the beginning of Media
`
`No.
`
`1
`
`in the deposition of Scott Bennett
`
`in the
`
`matter of Watson Laboratories,
`
`Inc. versus United
`
`Therapeutics Corporation in the U.S. District Court,
`
`District of New Jersey.
`
`This deposition is being held at
`
`35 West Wacker Drive, Chicago, Illinois, on March 29,
`
`2018, and the time is now 9:34 a.m.
`
`Will attorneys please identify
`
`themselves.
`
`MS. ASCARRUNZ: My name is Veronica Ascurrunz
`
`from the law firm of Wilson Sonsini Goodrich & Rosati
`
`representing the patent owner.
`
`MR. SOMMER:
`
`My name is Andrew Sommer from
`
`Winston & Strawn representing the petitioner.
`
`I do want to clarify though. During
`
`the read on,
`
`the caption for a District Court case
`
`was read. This is not a District Court case.
`
`This is a matter in the United
`
`States Patent and Trademark Office before the Patent
`
`Trial and Appeal Board.
`
`These are two inter partes review
`
`proceedings numbered 2017-01621 and 01622.
`
`
`
`DAVID FELDMAN WORLDWIDE, INC. - A VERITEXT COMPANY
`330 Old Country Road - Ste. 300, Mineola, NY 11501 1.800.727.4396
`UNITED THERAPEUTICS, EX. 2033
`WATSON LABORATORIESv. UNITED THERAPEUTICS, IPR2017-01622
`Page 4 of 137
`
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`SCOTT BENNETT Ph.D.
`
`THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Will the court reporter
`
`please swear in the witness.
`
`(WHEREUPON,
`
`the witness was
`
`duly sworn.)
`
`SCOTT BENNETT, Ph.D.
`
`called as a witness herein, having been first duly
`
`sworn, was examined and testified as follows:
`
`EXAMINATION
`
`BY MS. ASCARRUNZ:
`
`Ox
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`the record?
`
`Good morning, Dr. Bennett.
`
`Good morning.
`
`Could you please state your full name for
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`My name is Scott Bennett.
`
`And what is your current address?
`
`My address is 711 South Race Street,
`
`Urbana, Illinois.
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`G.
`
`A.
`
`Qs
`
`And have you been deposed before?
`
`Yes,
`
`I have.
`
`How many times?
`
`Six or seven times.
`
`Okay. Have you been deposed in a patent
`
`proceedings before?
`
`A.
`
`Yes.
`
`
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`20
`
`
`
`DAVID FELDMAN WORLDWIDE, INC. - A VERITEXT COMPANY
`330 Old Country Road - Ste. 300, Mineola, NY 11501 1.800.727.4396
`UNITED THERAPEUTICS, EX. 2033
`WATSON LABORATORIESv. UNITED THERAPEUTICS, IPR2017-01622
`Page 5 of 137
`
`
`
`
`
`SCOTT BENNETT Ph.D.
`
`Q.
`
`And proceedings before the United States
`
`Patent and Trademark Office?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Yes.
`
`So having been deposed now six or seven
`
`times,
`
`I'm sure you know the rules and the procedure;
`
`but just so that we're on the same page, I'll go over
`
`a few of them right now.
`
`You understand that you are under
`
`oath today and that you are to answer the questions
`
`that I ask truthfully just as if you were in front of
`
`the Board or a courtroom?
`
`A.
`
`QO.
`
`Yes,
`
`I do understand that.
`
`Okay. And so that the court reporter can
`
`
`take down all of our answers,
`
`I will endeavor not to
`
`speak over you and ask that you do the same.
`
`Is that fair?
`
`It certainly is.
`
`And please wait,
`
`therefore, until
`
`I
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`finish asking my question -- some of them are
`
`actually pretty lengthy -- before you start to
`
`answer.
`
`A.
`
`QO.
`
`Is that fair?
`
`That is fair.
`
`Okay. And if you don't understand any of
`
`
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
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`24
`
`20
`
`
`
`DAVID FELDMAN WORLDWIDE, INC. - A VERITEXT COMPANY
`330 Old Country Road - Ste. 300, Mineola, NY 11501 1.800.727.4396
`UNITED THERAPEUTICS, EX. 2033
`WATSON LABORATORIESv. UNITED THERAPEUTICS, IPR2017-01622
`Page 6 of 137
`
`
`
`
`
`SCOTT BENNETT Ph.D.
`
`my questions, please let me know, and I will try to
`
`rephrase it so that you do understand.
`
`Is that fair?
`
`That
`
`isi fair.
`
`And if you don't understand one of my
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`
`questions -- or if you answer,
`
`I will assume that you
`
`have understood my questions.
`
`Fair.
`
`That,
`
`too,
`
`is fair.
`
`We will try to take a break periodically.
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`I may need one more frequently than usual just to
`
`give my voice a break; but if you need a break at any
`
`point
`
`in time,
`
`just please let me know.
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`I will do so.
`
`The only thing I ask is if I have a
`
`question pending, let's answer the question before we
`
`ask for a break.
`
`Is that fair?
`
`That
`
`is: fair.
`
`Okay. Are you aware of anything that
`
`A.
`
`On
`
`would prevent you from testifying truthfully and
`
`completely today?
`
`A.
`
`No,
`
`I am not.
`
`MS. ASCARRUNZ: Okay.
`
`So I'm going to hand
`
`
`
`DAVID FELDMAN WORLDWIDE, INC. - A VERITEXT COMPANY
`330 Old Country Road - Ste. 300, Mineola, NY 11501 1.800.727.4396
`UNITED THERAPEUTICS, EX. 2033
`WATSON LABORATORIESv. UNITED THERAPEUTICS, IPR2017-01622
`Page 7 of 137
`
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`SCOTT BENNETT Ph.D.
`
`you the first exhibit.
`
`(Whereupon,
`
`a certain
`
`document was marked
`
`Exhibit 1013 for
`
`identification.)
`
`MS. ASCARRUNZ: And,
`
`for the record,
`
`this is
`
`Exhibit 1013 in IPR Proceeding Trial No.
`
`IPR
`
`2017-01622.
`
`BY MS. ASCARRUNZ:
`
`Q.
`
`Dr. Bennett,
`
`is this a copy of your
`
`declaration that was submitted in trial No.
`
`IPR
`
`2017-01622 in connection with Patent 9,339,507?
`
`MR. SOMMER: Object
`
`to form.
`
`BY THE WITNESS:
`
`A.
`
`The patent number you just provided does
`
`not match the patent number on the cover page.
`
`Do I fail to mis -- do I fail to
`
`understand something?
`
`BY MS. ASCARRUNZ:
`
`GC.
`
`Let me make sure I handed you -- okay.
`
`So let me rephrase the question
`
`then.
`
`Is this a copy of your declaration
`
`that was submitted in trial No.
`
`IPR 2017-01621 in
`
`
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
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`23
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`24
`
`20
`
`
`
`DAVID FELDMAN WORLDWIDE, INC. - A VERITEXT COMPANY
`330 Old Country Road - Ste. 300, Mineola, NY 11501 1.800.727.4396
`UNITED THERAPEUTICS, EX. 2033
`WATSON LABORATORIESv. UNITED THERAPEUTICS, IPR2017-01622
`Page 8 of 137
`
`
`
`
`
`SCOTT BENNETT Ph.D.
`
`connection with Patent 9,358,240?
`
`A.
`
`Os
`
`It appears to be so.
`
`Okay. And on Page 16 of this document is
`
`that your signature?
`
`MR. SOMMER: Object
`
`to form.
`
`BY MS. ASCARRUNZ:
`
`Q.
`
`Let me clarify.
`
`For the record, it's
`
`numbered Page 16 of the document, but at the bottom
`
`it says,
`
`"Page 18 of 74."
`
`Is that your signature on this page?
`
`A.
`
`QO.
`
`Yes, it is.
`
`Okay. And Exhibit A to this declaration
`
`is a copy of your current CV?
`
`A.
`
`Exhibit A is a copy of my CV, which was
`
`current at the time that I signed this declaration,
`
`which was the 20th of June, 2017.
`
`QO:
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Okay.
`
`Is it current as of today?
`
`No.
`
`Okay. What would the changes be to this
`
`CV that would make it current as of today?
`
`A.
`
`If you'll look on Page 17 of the
`
`declaration, which is Page 19 of 74 of the document,
`
`you'll see in the first bulleted item under
`
`"Employment" a description of my work for Prior Art
`
`
`
`DAVID FELDMAN WORLDWIDE, INC. - A VERITEXT COMPANY
`330 Old Country Road - Ste. 300, Mineola, NY 11501 1.800.727.4396
`UNITED THERAPEUTICS, EX. 2033
`WATSON LABORATORIESv. UNITED THERAPEUTICS, IPR2017-01622
`Page 9 of 137
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`10
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`SCOTT BENNETT Ph.D.
`
`Documentation Services, LLC.
`
`We're in the process of closing the
`
`business, and so,
`
`for instance,
`
`the website no
`
`longer -- the website listed there no longer provides
`
`information about our business.
`
`QO.
`
`Okay. And why are you closing the
`
`business?
`
`A. We're closing the business because we got
`
`more business than was -- than we wanted to handle.
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`Okay.
`
`The other change,
`
`just to be complete
`
`about it,
`
`is the second bulleted item says that I'm a
`
`consultant on library space planning.
`
`I've also closed that business, and
`
`the website listed there is no longer -- no longer
`
`
`provides information about that business.
`
`QO:
`
`Okay. With respect to the Prior Art
`
`Documentation Services, LLC, you said you're in the
`
`
`process of closing it.
`
`I guess I'm trying to understand
`
`what exactly does that mean?
`
`A.
`
`In September of 2017 we stopped taking
`
`new clients.
`
`QO.
`
`Okay.
`
`
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`24
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`20
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`
`DAVID FELDMAN WORLDWIDE, INC. - A VERITEXT COMPANY
`330 Old Country Road - Ste. 300, Mineola, NY 11501 1.800.727.4396
`UNITED THERAPEUTICS, EX. 2033
`WATSON LABORATORIESv. UNITED THERAPEUTICS, IPR2017-01622
`Page 10 of 137
`
`
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`
`
`SCOTT BENNETT Ph.D.
`
`ll
`
`A.
`
`And we said that we would support the
`
`needs of our former clients through calendar year
`
`2018.
`
`The primary needs envisioned at that time were
`
`depositions, such as this morning's deposition.
`
`Q.
`
`Okay. Understood.
`
`And with respect to the consultant
`
`as a library space design,
`
`I
`
`think you also stated
`
`that you were in the process of closing that.
`
`Is -- what does that mean with
`
`respect to that particular task?
`
`That business is closed.
`
`Okay.
`
`I am no longer providing consulting
`
`
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`services on library space planning.
`
`Q.
`
`Okay.
`
`Thank you.
`
`And after you finalize the closing
`
`of Prior Art Documentation Services, LLC, do you have
`
`plans to restart or open a similar business?
`
`A.
`
`No.
`
`MS. ASCARRUNZ: Okay.
`
`I will hand to you the
`
`next exhibit.
`
`
`
`DAVID FELDMAN WORLDWIDE, INC. - A VERITEXT COMPANY
`330 Old Country Road - Ste. 300, Mineola, NY 11501 1.800.727.4396
`UNITED THERAPEUTICS, EX. 2033
`WATSON LABORATORIESv. UNITED THERAPEUTICS, IPR2017-01622
`Page 11 of 137
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`
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`SCOTT BENNETT Ph.D.
`
`12
`
`(Whereupon,
`
`a certain
`
`document was marked
`
`Exhibit 1014 for
`
`identification.)
`
`BY MS. ASCARRUNZ:
`
`Q.
`
`And, as with the other one, you can look
`
`through as much of it as you need to, and at any
`
`point that I ask any questions -- you have now I
`
`think in front of you both of your declarations.
`
`You can -- at any point if you need
`
`to go look through a document, please feel free to do
`
`so.
`
`So my question to you on this one
`
`is:
`
`Is this a copy of your declaration that was
`
`submitted in Trial No.
`
`IPR 2017-01622 in connection
`
`with Patent 9,339,507?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`It appears to be.
`
`And that -- is that your signature on
`
`
`Page 16 of the document, page 18 of 74 on the stamp
`
`at the bottom?
`
`A.
`
`Ox
`
`Yes, it is.
`
`Are these,
`
`in fact,
`
`the same identical
`
`declaration --
`
`MR. SOMMER: Object
`
`to form.
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`DAVID FELDMAN WORLDWIDE, INC. - A VERITEXT COMPANY
`330 Old Country Road - Ste. 300, Mineola, NY 11501 1.800.727.4396
`UNITED THERAPEUTICS, EX. 2033
`WATSON LABORATORIESv. UNITED THERAPEUTICS, IPR2017-01622
`Page 12 of 137
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`13
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`SCOTT BENNETT Ph.D.
`
`BY MS. ASCARRUNZ:
`
`Q.
`
`
`-- the first exhibit and the second
`
`exhibit that I handed you?
`
`MR. SOMMER: Object
`
`to form.
`
`BY THE WITNESS:
`
`A.
`
`They are substantively the same document.
`
`BY MS. ASCARRUNZ:
`
`Q.
`
`Are you aware of any differences apart
`
`from the coverage page?
`
`A.
`
`I'm aware of no substantive difference
`
`between the two aside from the cover page.
`
`Q.
`
`Okay. And so is it fair to say that your
`
`opinions don't differ depending on which of the two
`
`proceedings we're talking about?
`
`Ay
`
`QO.
`
`Yes,
`
`that is a fair statement.
`
`Okay.
`
`So in our discussion today when I
`
`
`refer to your opinion,
`I will be referring to your
`
`opinion in connection with both proceedings;
`
`is that
`
`fair?
`
`A.
`
`Yes,
`
`that is fair.
`
`MS. ASCARRUNZ: And, Andrew,
`
`I notice at the
`
`beginning you clarified the record to indicate both
`
`docket numbers.
`
`
`
`Can we agree that this deposition
`
`DAVID FELDMAN WORLDWIDE, INC. - A VERITEXT COMPANY
`330 Old Country Road - Ste. 300, Mineola, NY 11501 1.800.727.4396
`UNITED THERAPEUTICS, EX. 2033
`WATSON LABORATORIESv. UNITED THERAPEUTICS, IPR2017-01622
`Page 13 of 137
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`SCOTT BENNETT Ph.D.
`
`transcript will be entered and used for both IPR
`
`14
`
`proceedings?
`
`MR. SOMMER: Yes.
`
`BY MS. ASCARRUNZ:
`
`Q.
`
`Okay. Dr. Bennett, I'd like to talk a
`
`little bit now about your background and your
`
`expertise.
`
`I understand that you're a retired
`
`librarian;
`
`is that correct?
`
`A.
`
`3.
`
`years ago?
`
`A,
`
`Q.
`
`That is correct.
`
`Okay. And you retired approximately 16
`
`I retired in 2001.
`
`And Paragraph 2 of your declaration
`
`indicates that you were -- that you are working as a
`
`managing partner of the firm Prior Art Documentation,
`
`LLC;
`
`is that correct?
`
`A.
`
`That is correct as of the date that I
`
`signed this declaration.
`
`G.
`
`Okay. And as we discussed, as of now
`
`that entity is in the process of being closed down;
`
`correct?
`
`A.
`
`QO.
`
`That is correct.
`
`Okay. When and why did you open Prior
`
`
`
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`DAVID FELDMAN WORLDWIDE, INC. - A VERITEXT COMPANY
`330 Old Country Road - Ste. 300, Mineola, NY 11501 1.800.727.4396
`UNITED THERAPEUTICS, EX. 2033
`WATSON LABORATORIESv. UNITED THERAPEUTICS, IPR2017-01622
`Page 14 of 137
`
`
`
`
`
`15
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`SCOTT BENNETT Ph.D.
`
`Art Documentation, LLC?
`
`MR. SOMMER: Object
`
`to form.
`
`MS. ASCARRUNZ:
`
`Let me take one at a time.
`
`BY MS. ASCARRUNZ:
`
`G:
`
`When did you open Prior Art
`
`Documentation, LLC?
`
`A.
`
`We opened Prior Art Documentation, LLC in
`
`2015.
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`And why did you open that business?
`
`I had a call from a patent attorney
`
`asking me about a document that was classified using
`
`what is called the old Yale classification scheme.
`
`The patent attorney, seeing that
`
`had worked at Yale,
`
`thought
`
`I might be able to help.
`
`
`
`
`
`I was able to help, authenticate and
`
`date the document,
`
`the patent attorney observed that
`
`there was a business -- very likely a good business
`
`opportunity here, and that
`
`led me to identify a
`
`
`couple of partners, and we opened the business.
`
`QO.
`
`Okay. Which partners did you open the
`
`business with?
`
`A.
`
`One of the partners is Helen Sullivan,
`
`also a managing partner in Prior Art Documentation
`
`Services. Her work for our firm is described in
`
`
`
`DAVID FELDMAN WORLDWIDE, INC. - A VERITEXT COMPANY
`330 Old Country Road - Ste. 300, Mineola, NY 11501 1.800.727.4396
`UNITED THERAPEUTICS, EX. 2033
`WATSON LABORATORIESv. UNITED THERAPEUTICS, IPR2017-01622
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`16
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`SCOTT BENNETT Ph.D.
`
`page -- in Paragraph 46 of the declaration.
`
`The other partner is Robert Berger.
`
`He also is a managing partner.
`
`QO.
`
`And what are their current roles now that
`
`Prior Art Documentation, LLC is in the process of
`
`being closed down?
`
`A.
`
`Like me,
`
`they stand ready to support any
`
`needs of our former clients.
`
`Q.
`
`Okay. And you mentioned Yale.
`
`You have experience working as a
`
`librarian at three institutions; correct?
`
`A.
`
`Os
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`No.
`
`Why is that incorrect?
`
`The number is four.
`
`Okay. And Paragraph 5 of your
`
`declaration indicates you also worked as a
`
`researcher;
`
`is that correct?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`That is correct.
`
`What kind of researcher?
`
`My research interests were textual
`
`editing, British publishing history,
`
`the preservation
`
`of library materials,
`
`the management of library
`
`collections, and the future -- the future direction
`
`of academic libraries, and library space planning.
`
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`DAVID FELDMAN WORLDWIDE, INC. - A VERITEXT COMPANY
`330 Old Country Road - Ste. 300, Mineola, NY 11501 1.800.727.4396
`UNITED THERAPEUTICS, EX. 2033
`WATSON LABORATORIESv. UNITED THERAPEUTICS, IPR2017-01622
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`17
`
`SCOTT BENNETT Ph.D.
`
`Q.
`
`Okay. Have you worked as a scientific or
`
`medical researcher?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`No,
`
`I have not.
`
`And you indicated that you have some
`
`general knowledge of how researchers work;
`
`is that
`
`correct?
`
`A.
`
`I do say at the end of Paragraph 6 that
`
`in these several ways enumerated in Paragraph 6 I
`
`have a general knowledge of how researchers work.
`
`Ox
`
`Okay. But you don't claim to be an
`
`
`
`in scientific research; do you?
`expert
`
`MR. SOMMER: Object
`
`to form.
`
`BY THE WITNESS:
`
`A.
`
`Perhaps you would identify what you mean
`
`by an expert
`
`in scientific research.
`
`BY MS. ASCARRUNZ:
`
`Q.
`
`Do you consider yourself an expert
`
`in
`
`medical research?
`
`MR. SOMMER:
`
`Same objection.
`
`BY THE WITNESS:
`
`A.
`
`I can't answer your question without
`
`knowing what you mean by an expert
`
`in medical
`
`research.
`
`
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`DAVID FELDMAN WORLDWIDE, INC. - A VERITEXT COMPANY
`330 Old Country Road - Ste. 300, Mineola, NY 11501 1.800.727.4396
`UNITED THERAPEUTICS, EX. 2033
`WATSON LABORATORIESv. UNITED THERAPEUTICS, IPR2017-01622
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`18
`
`SCOTT BENNETT Ph.D.
`
`BY MS. ASCARRUNZ:
`
`Q. Which -- is your concern with the word
`
`medical research,
`
`is that vague to you?
`
`A.
`
`G:
`
`It's imprecise.
`
`Okay. Have you yourself performed any
`
`medical research?
`
`MR. SOMMER: Object
`
`to form.
`
`BY THE WITNESS:
`
`A.
`
`As
`
`I mentioned,
`
`the term medical research
`
`is an imprecise term.
`
`BY MS. ASCARRUNZ:
`
`QO.
`
`A.
`
`Okay.
`
`And without further specification,
`
`I
`
`don't know how truthfully and accurately to answer
`
`your question.
`
`Q.
`
`Sure. Let me try to come at it a
`
`different way.
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Thank you.
`
`Have you published any peer review
`
`publications in any medical
`
`journals?
`
`A.
`
`Qs
`
`No.
`
`Have you published any peer review
`
`publications in any scientific journals?
`
`A.
`
`No.
`
`
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`DAVID FELDMAN WORLDWIDE, INC. - A VERITEXT COMPANY
`330 Old Country Road - Ste. 300, Mineola, NY 11501 1.800.727.4396
`UNITED THERAPEUTICS, EX. 2033
`WATSON LABORATORIESv. UNITED THERAPEUTICS, IPR2017-01622
`Page 18 of 137
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`SCOTT BENNETT Ph.D.
`
`O%
`
`Have you researched such publications in
`
`19
`
`the source of your work?
`
`MR. SOMMER: Object
`
`to form.
`
`BY THE WITNESS:
`
`A.
`
`Could you tell me, please, what you mean
`
`by researched?
`
`BY MS. ASCARRUNZ:
`
`6.
`
`Have you reviewed peer review
`
`publications in scientific journals for purposes of
`
`
`performing literature research?
`
`MR. SOMMER: Object
`
`to form.
`
`BY THE WITNESS:
`
`A.
`
`Yes.
`
`BY MS. ASCARRUNZ:
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`Okay.
`
`In what context?
`
`In the context of being an academic
`
`librarian and in the context of being a managing
`
`partner in Prior Art Documentation Services.
`
`Q.
`
`Okay.
`
`Is it fair to say that your
`
`declaration was written from your perspective as an
`
`expert?
`
`MR. SOMMER: Object
`
`to form.
`
`
`BY THE WITNESS:
`
`A.
`
`It's fair to say that the declaration
`
`
`
`DAVID FELDMAN WORLDWIDE, INC. - A VERITEXT COMPANY
`330 Old Country Road - Ste. 300, Mineola, NY 11501 1.800.727.4396
`UNITED THERAPEUTICS, EX. 2033
`WATSON LABORATORIESv. UNITED THERAPEUTICS, IPR2017-01622
`Page 19 of 137
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`SCOTT BENNETT Ph.D.
`
`reflects expert knowledge.
`
`BY MS. ASCARRUNZ:
`
`Os
`
`A.
`
`And what is your expert knowledge in?
`
`If you'll look at Paragraph 5, you'll see
`
`there that my expertise involves extensive experience
`
`with catalog records and online library management
`
`systems built around Machine-Readable cataloging
`
`standards.
`
`My expertise also relates to having
`
`substantial experience in authenticating printed
`
`documents and establishing the date when they were
`
`accessible to researchers.
`
`In Paragraph 6 you will see that my
`
`expertise relates to having some knowledge of the
`
`voluminous professional literature on the information
`
`seeking behaviors of academic researchers.
`
`And my expertise also relates to
`
`being an educator where I have a broad knowledge --
`
`this also in Paragraph 6 -- a broad knowledge of the
`
`ways in which students in a variety of disciplines
`
`learn to master the bibliographic resources used in
`
`their disciplines.
`
`Q.
`
`Okay. And then the following sentence
`
`says, “In all of these ways I have a general
`
`
`
`DAVID FELDMAN WORLDWIDE, INC. - A VERITEXT COMPANY
`330 Old Country Road - Ste. 300, Mineola, NY 11501 1.800.727.4396
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`ZA.
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`SCOTT BENNETT Ph.D.
`
`knowledge of how researchers work."
`
`Do you claim to have expert
`
`
`knowledge of how researchers work?
`
`A.
`
`The word experts in general are terms
`
`describing relative degrees of things.
`
`So I certainly have more knowledge
`
`of the way in which researchers work than most people
`
`do.
`
`One might say that that's a general
`
`knowledge. One might also say that that's an
`
`expert's knowledge.
`
`It -- it -- you need to give me the
`
`comparison, and then I will -- I will answer your
`
`question as to the degree of expertise.
`
`Q. Well, I'd like to know what you say.
`
`Do you consider yourself an expert
`
`in how researchers work?
`
`MR. SOMMER: Object
`
`to form.
`
`BY THE WITNESS:
`
`A.
`
`What
`
`I say is what
`
`I wrote, which is that
`
`I have a general knowledge of how researchers work.
`
`BY MS. ASCARRUNZ:
`
`Q.
`
`And the sentence -- the second to the
`
`last sentence in Paragraph 6 you also allowed into
`
`
`
`DAVID FELDMAN WORLDWIDE, INC. - A VERITEXT COMPANY
`330 Old Country Road - Ste. 300, Mineola, NY 11501 1.800.727.4396
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`SCOTT BENNETT Ph.D.
`
`22
`
`the record and states that as an educator you have a
`
`broad knowledge of the ways in which students ina
`
`variety of disciplines learn to master the
`
`bibliographic resources used in their disciplines.
`
`What do you mean in that sentence
`
`by -- or actually let me rephrase that.
`
`When you refer to students ina
`
`variety of disciplines, which disciplines are you
`
`talking about?
`
`A. Well, your question is best answered,
`
`I
`
`believe, by mentioning that between 2004 and 2009 I
`
`was a consultant -- oops,
`
`I'm sorry. Between 2001
`
`and 2009 I was a senior advisor for the library
`
`programs at the Council of Independent Colleges.
`
`This is mentioned in Appendix A,
`
`which is on Page -- the third bulleted item, Page 17,
`
`or Page 19 of 74 in the declaration.
`
`My work during those eight years was
`
`to advise the Council of Independent Colleges on its
`
`program fostering what librarians call information
`
`literacy.
`
`The Council of Independent Colleges
`
`has over 500 liberal arts colleges at university
`
`members. At the time they were a -- the council and
`
`
`
`DAVID FELDMAN WORLDWIDE, INC. - A VERITEXT COMPANY
`330 Old Country Road - Ste. 300, Mineola, NY 11501 1.800.727.4396
`UNITED THERAPEUTICS, EX. 2033
`WATSON LABORATORIESv. UNITED THERAPEUTICS, IPR2017-01622
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`SCOTT BENNETT Ph.D.
`
`23
`
`its members were interested in enhancing the
`
`information literacy of its students. We offered
`
`workshops for about 250 of those members.
`
`The
`
`workshops were attended,
`
`therefore, by nearly 1000
`
`people representing those institutions.
`
`Those
`
`institutions have academic programs in almost all
`
`disciplines.
`
`So to go back to Page 3 about which
`
`you asked,
`
`I meant to reflect that experience in
`
`saying that I have a broad knowledge of the way in
`
`which students in a variety of disciplines,
`
`that is,
`
`the disciplines taught at these 250 institutions,
`
`learned to master bibliographic resources because
`
`that's what our workshops were about.
`
`Q.
`
`I understand.
`
`Thank you.
`
`You don't -- you don't claim to be
`
`an expert
`
`in the law; correct?
`
`A.
`
`In Paragraph 7
`
`I assert that I am not a
`
`lawyer and am not rendering an opinion on a legal
`
`question.
`
`QO:
`
`Okay.
`
`So that's right, you don't claim
`
`to be an expert
`
`in the law; correct?
`
`A.
`
`That's a reasonable inference from what
`
`I
`
`say in the declaration.
`
`
`
`DAVID FELDMAN WORLDWIDE, INC. - A VERITEXT COMPANY
`330 Old Country Road - Ste. 300, Mineola, NY 11501 1.800.727.4396
`UNITED THERAPEUTICS, EX. 2033
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`SCOTT BENNETT Ph.D.
`
`Q.
`
`And you're not rendering an opinion on
`
`whether or not any document is prior art under the
`
`law; correct?
`
`A.
`
`I -- so I say that explicitly in
`
`Paragraph 7.
`
`Q.
`
`And you're not rendering an opinion on
`
`whether or not any document is a printed publication
`
`under the law; correct?
`
`A.
`
`I'm sorry. That is what
`
`I say in the
`
`declaration.
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Okay.
`
`In Paragraph 7.
`
`In Paragraphs 10 through 12 of your
`
`report -- oh,
`
`I'm sorry -- your declaration -- you
`
`began several statements indicating that you were
`
`told several things by counsel.
`
`Do you see that?
`
`I do see that.
`
`Are you providing your own opinion
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`regarding the matters in Paragraphs 10 through 12?
`
`A.
`
`Qs
`
`No.
`
`So,
`
`for example, you're not providing any
`
`opinion about what the patents in these proceedings
`
`relate to; correct?
`
`
`
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`DAVID FELDMAN WORLDWIDE, INC. - A VERITEXT COMPANY
`330 Old Country Road - Ste. 300, Mineola, NY 11501 1.800.727.4396
`UNITED THERAPEUTICS, EX. 2033
`WATSON LABORATORIESv. UNITED THERAPEUTICS, IPR2017-01622
`Page 24 of 137
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`25
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`SCOTT BENNETT Ph.D.
`
`A.
`
`I'm providing opinions about documents
`
`that I presume relate to the patents.
`
`QO.
`
`Okay. Have you reviewed the patents at
`
`issue in these proceedings at all?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`No,
`
`I have not.
`
`Okay. And you're not claiming to have
`
`any expertise in drug administration; right?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`No,
`
`I am not -- do not.
`
`And you're not claiming to have any
`
`expertise in pulmonary hypertension; correct?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Correct.
`
`And you're not claiming to have any
`
`expertise in the administration of inhaled drugs;
`
`correct?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`I claim no such expertise.
`
`And you're -- you don't claim to have any
`
`expertise in pulse ultrasonic nebulizers; correct?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`No expertise there, either.
`
`And in Paragraphs 11 and 12 of your
`
`declaration you indicate there that you were informed
`
`by counsel of what a person of ordinary skill in the
`
`art is;
`
`is that right?
`
`A.
`
`QO.
`
`That is correct.
`
`Is that a term that you've become
`
`
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`DAVID FELDMAN WORLDWIDE, INC. - A VERITEXT COMPANY
`330 Old Country Road - Ste. 300, Mineola, NY 11501 1.800.727.4396
`UNITED THERAPEUTICS, EX. 2033
`WATSON LABORATORIESv. UNITED THERAPEUTICS, IPR2017-01622
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`SCOTT BENNETT Ph.D.
`
`26
`
`familiar with in the -- in connection with your work?
`
`A.
`
`QO.
`
`Yes.
`
`But
`
`in this proceeding you're not
`
`yourself providing a definition of what a person of
`
`ordinary skill in the art is; correct?
`
`MR. SOMMER: Object
`
`to form.
`
`BY THE WITNESS:
`
`A. Well,
`
`this paragraph describes what --
`
`a -- some attributes of a person of ordinary skill in
`
`this subject.
`
`BY MS. ASCARRUNZ:
`
`QO.
`
`And those attributes are not ones that
`
`you chose or decided on,
`
`they were provided to you by
`
`counsel;
`
`is that fair?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`That is correct.
`
`Okay. Does your opinion regarding --
`
`well, strike that.
`
`Does your opinion in your
`
`declaration depend on this understanding of what a
`
`person of ordinary skill in the art is?
`
`MR. SOMMER: Object
`
`to form.
`
`BY THE WITNESS:
`
`A.
`
`My declaration depends upon it only to
`
`the degree specified in Paragraph 13 about which you
`
`
`
`DAVID FELDMAN WORLDWIDE, INC. - A VERITEXT COMPANY
`330 Old Country Road - Ste. 300, Mineola, NY 11501 1.800.727.4396
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`SCOTT BENNETT Ph.D.
`
`27
`
`have not yet asked --
`
`BY MS. ASCARRUNZ:
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`Okay.
`
`-—- where I do express an opinion about
`
`what one would suppose to be the case about a person
`
`
`of ordinary skill
`in the art, who is,
`
`I remind us,
`
`a
`
`hypothetical person.
`
`Q.
`
`Okay. And your opinion set forth in
`
`Paragraph 13 and -- well, let's start with just
`
`Paragraph 13.
`
`Your opinion set forth in
`
`Paragraph 13 considering the person of ordinary skill
`
`in the art as it was defined to you by counsel;
`
`is
`
`that right?
`
`A.
`
`The assertions -- I'm sorry -- the
`
`opinions expressed in 13 relate to the kind of person
`
`described in Paragraphs 11 and 12.
`
`Q.
`
`Okay. And apart from the kind of person
`
`described in Paragraphs 11 and 12, you didn't
`
`consider any alternative type of person;
`
`is that
`
`right?
`
`MR. SOMMER: Object
`
`to form.
`
`
`BY THE WITNESS:
`
`A. Well,
`
`I
`
`think that's right if I
`
`
`
`DAVID FELDMAN WORLDWIDE, INC. - A VERITEXT COMPANY
`330 Old Country Road - Ste. 300, Mineola, NY 11501 1.800.727.4396
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`SCOTT BENNETT Ph.D.
`
`28
`
`understand your question.
`
`BY MS. ASCARRUNZ:
`
`Oe
`
`All right. Let me make sure that you do
`
`understand my question because that was a good
`
`objection.
`
`That was really rather a cumbersome
`
`question.
`
`What I'm trying to get at is you
`
`took the person of ordinary skill as it was defined
`
`to you by counsel and applied that in your opinions;
`
`
`is that fair?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Yes,
`
`that is fair.
`
`Okay. Did you consider -- and that is
`
`the only person of ordinary skill that you considered
`
`in forming your opinions?
`
`Ay Well,
`
`if you mean that I did not have in
`
`my imagination a different set of attributes
`
`different from those described,
`
`for instance,
`
`in
`
`Paragraph 12,
`
`that is correct, yes.
`
`Q.
`
`Okay.
`
`Thank you.
`
`You phrased that far
`
`better than I could have.
`
`Thank you.
`
`You yourself do not claim to be a
`
`person of ordinary skill in the art;
`
`is that right?
`
`Let me rephrase that.
`
`
`
`You yourself do not claim to be a
`
`DAVID FELDMAN WORLDWIDE, INC. - A VERITEXT COMPANY
`330 Old Country Road - Ste. 300, Mineola, NY 11501 1.800.727.4396
`UNITED THERAPEUTICS, EX. 2033
`WATSON LABORATORIESv. UNITED THERAPEUTICS, IPR2017-01622
`Page 28 of 137
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`SCOTT BENNETT Ph.D.
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`29
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`person of ordinary skill in the art as defined in
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`Paragraphs 11 and 12?
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`A.
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`Q.
`
`That is right.
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`Okay. And you have never been a person
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`of ordinary skill
`in the art as defined in Paragraphs
`
`11 and 12?
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`A.
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`Q.
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`That,
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`too,
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`is right.
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`And you are also not a person of
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`extraordinary skill in the art of the subject matters
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`in Paragraphs 11 and 12;
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`is that right?
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`A.
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`Q.
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`That -- true. That is also right.
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`Is any statement
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`in Paragraphs 11 and 12
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`an opinion that you personally are taking based on
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`your expertise?
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`A.
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`There is nothing in Paragraphs 11 and 12
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`that I would state differently based on my own
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`expertise.
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`@.
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`So that’s a little bit of a different
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`question than the one I asked.
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`A.
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`QO:
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`Tm SOErY<
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`Is there any statement is Paragraphs 11
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`and 12 that are your expert opinion on the matter
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`stated, or are these assumptions that were given to
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`you by counsel?
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`DAVID FELDMAN WORLDWIDE, INC. - A VERITEXT COMPANY
`330 Old Country Road - Ste. 300, Mineola, NY 11501 1.800.727.4396
`UNITED THERAPEUTICS, EX. 2033
`WATSON LABORATORIESv. UNITED THERAPEUTICS, IPR2017-01622
`Page 29 of 137
`
`
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`SCOTT BENNETT Ph.D.
`
`30
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`A.
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`Paragraphs 11 and 12 are definitions of a
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`person of ordinary skill provided to me by counsel.
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`Q.
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`You don't claim to be an expert
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`in the
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`treatment of pulmonary hypertension; right?
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`A.
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`QO.
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`No,
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`I make no such claim.
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`And you don't claim to be a person of
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`ordinary skill in the art in the treatment of
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`pulmonary hypertension; correct?
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`A.
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`Ox
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`I make no such claim.
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`Before this case had you ever heard of
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`pulmonary hypertension?
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`A.
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`Q.
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`Possibly.
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`Do you recall having heard of pulmonary
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`hypertension before this case?
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`Ay
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`QO.
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`No,
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`I have no positive recollection.
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`And before this case had you ever heard
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`of Treprostinil?
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`A.
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`Q.
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`Almost surely not.
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`Okay.
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`In your declaration you address
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`the accessibility of tw