`
`UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`
`BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL ROARD
`
`WATSON LABORATORIES,
`
`INC.,
`
`Petitioner,
`
`vs.
`
`UNITED THERAPEUTICS CORP.,
`
`Patent Owner.
`
`)
`
`)
`
`)
`
`)
`
`)
`
`IPR NO. 2017—01621
`
`IPR NO. 2017—01622
`
`
`
`The videotaped deposition of SCOTT
`
`BENNETT, Ph.D., called for examination,
`
`taken
`
`pursuant to the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure of
`
`the United States District Courts pertaining to the
`
`taking of depositions,
`
`taken before Lynn A. McCauley,
`
`CSR No. 84—003268, RPR, a Certified Shorthand
`
`
`
`Reporter of the State of Illinois, at 35 West Wacker
`
`Drive, 48th Floor, Chicago, Illinois, on March 29,
`
`2018, at 9:34 a.m.
`
`Job No. 54282
`
`UNITED THERAPEUTICS, EX. 2033
`WATSON LABORATORIES v. UNITED THERAPEUTICS, |PR2017-01622
`
`Page 1 of 137
`
`
`
`
`
`
`
`PRESENT:
`
`Appeared on behalf of Petitioner:
`WINSTON & STRAWN LLP
`
`1700 K Street, NW
`Washington, DC 20006
`202—282—5896
`
`BY:
`
`ANDREW R. SOMMER, ESQ
`asommer@winston.com
`
`and
`
`Appeared on behalf of Patent Owner:
`WILSON SONSINI GOODRICH & ROSATI
`
`1700 K Street, NW, Fifth Floor
`
`Washington, DC 20006—3817
`202—973-8812
`
`BY:
`
`VERONICA S. ASCARRUNZ, ESQ.
`
`vasoarrunz@wsgr.com
`
`
`
`DAVID FELDMAN WORLDWIDE, INC. - A VERITEXT COMPANY
`330 Old Country Road — Ste. 300, Mineola, NY I 1501 1.800.727.4396
`
`UNITED THERAPEUTICS, EX. 2033
`WATSON LABORATORIES V. UNITED THERAPEUTICS, |PR2017-01622
`
`Page 2 of 137
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`13’
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`
`
`
`
`WITNESS:
`SCOTT BENNETT
`
`EXAMINATION BY:
`MS. ASCARRUNZ
`MR. SOMMER
`
`EXHIBITS:
`
`Exhibit 1013
`
`Exhibit 1014
`
`I N D E X
`
`Page
`
`101
`
`Line
`10
`23
`
`DESCRIPTION
`
`Copy of declaration
`by Dr. Bennett that
`was submitted in
`trial No.
`IPR
`2017—01621 in
`connection with
`
`Patent 9,358,240
`
`Copy of declaration
`by Dr. Bennett that
`was submitted in
`Trial No.
`IPR
`2017—01622 in
`connection with
`
`Patent 9,339,507
`
`12
`
`*** Attorney retained all exhibits.
`
`
`
`DAVID FELDMAN WORLDWIDE, INC. - A VERITEXT COMPANY
`330 Old Country Road — Ste. 300, Mineola, NY 1 1501 1.800.727.4396
`
`UNITED THERAPEUTICS, EX. 2033
`WATSON LABORATORIES V. UNITED THERAPEUTICS, |PR2017-01622
`
`Page 3 of 137
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`
`
`
`
`THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We are now on the record.
`
`This marks the beginning of Media
`
`No.
`
`l
`
`in the deposition of Scott Bennett
`
`in the
`
`matter of Watson Laboratories,
`
`Inc. versus United
`
`Therapeutics Corporation in the U.S. District Court,
`
`District of New Jersey.
`
`This deposition is being held at
`
`35 West Wacker Drive, Chicago, Illinois, on March 29,
`
`2018, and the time is now 9:34 a.m.
`
`Will attorneys please identify
`
`themselves.
`
`MS. ASCARRUNZ: My name is Veronica Ascurrunz
`
`from the law firm of Wilson Sonsini Goodrich & Rosati
`
`representing the patent owner.
`
`MR. SUMMER:
`
`My name is Andrew Sommer from
`
`Winston & Strawn representing the petitioner.
`
`I do want to clarify though. During
`
`the read on,
`
`the caption for a District Court case
`
`was read. This is not a District Court case.
`
`This is a matter in the United
`
`States Patent and Trademark Office before the Patent
`
`Trial and Appeal Board.
`
`These are two inter partes review
`
`proceedings numbered 2017—01621 and 01622.
`
`
`
`DAVID FELDMAN WORLDWIDE, INC. - A VERITEXT COMPANY
`330 Old Country Road — Ste. 300, Mineola, NY 11501 1.800.727.4396
`
`UNITED THERAPEUTICS, EX. 2033
`WATSON LABORATORIES v. UNITED THERAPEUTICS, IPR2017-01622
`
`Page 4 of 137
`
`
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`
`
`
`
`SCOTT BENNETT Ph.D.
`
`THE VIDEOGRAPHER:
`
`Will the court reporter
`
`please swear in the witness.
`
`(WHEREUPON,
`
`the witness was
`
`duly sworn.)
`
`SCOTT BENNETT, Ph.D.
`
`called as a witness herein, having been first duly
`
`sworn, was examined and testified as follows:
`
`EXAMINATION
`
`BY MS. ASCARRUNZ:
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`the record?
`
`Good morning, Dr. Bennett.
`
`Good morning.
`
`Could you please state your full name for
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`My name is Scott Bennett.
`
`And what is your current address?
`
`My address is 711 South Race Street,
`
`Urbana, Illinois.
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`And have you been deposed before?
`
`Yes,
`
`I have.
`
`How many times?
`
`Six or seven times.
`
`Okay. Have you been deposed in a patent
`
`proceedings before?
`
`A.
`
`Yes.
`
`
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`
`
`DAVID FELDMAN WORLDWIDE, INC. - A VERITEXT COMPANY
`330 Old Country Road — Ste. 300, Mineola, NY 1 1501 1.800.727.4396
`
`UNITED THERAPEUTICS, EX. 2033
`WATSON LABORATORIES v. UNITED THERAPEUTICS, |PR2017-01622
`
`Page 5 of 137
`
`
`
`
`
`SCOTT BENNETT Ph.D.
`
`Q.
`
`And proceedings before the United States
`
`Patent and Trademark Office?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Yes.
`
`So having been deposed now six or seven
`
`times,
`
`I'm sure you know the rules and the procedure;
`
`but just so that we're on the same page, I'll go over
`
`a few of them right now.
`
`You understand that you are under
`
`oath today and that you are to answer the questions
`
`that I ask truthfully just as if you were in front of
`
`the Board or a courtroom?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Yes,
`
`I do understand that.
`
`Okay. And so that the court reporter can
`
`
`take down all or our answers,
`
`I will endeavor not to
`
`speak over you and ask that you do the same.
`
`Is that fair?
`
`It certainly is.
`
`And please wait,
`
`therefore, until
`
`I
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`finish asking my question —— some of them are
`
`actually pretty lengthy —— before you start to
`
`answer.
`
`Is that fair?
`
`A.
`
`That is fair.
`
`Q.
`
`Okay. And if you don‘t understand any of
`
`
`
`DAVID FELDMAN WORLDWIDE, INC. - A VERITEXT COMPANY
`330 Old Country Road — Ste. 300, Mineola, NY I 1501 1.800.727.4396
`
`UNITED THERAPEUTICS, EX. 2033
`WATSON LABORATORIES v. UNITED THERAPEUTICS, IPR2017-01622
`
`Page 6 of 137
`
`
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`
`
`
`
`SCOTT BENNETT Ph.D.
`
`my questions, please let me know, and I will try to
`
`rephrase it so that you do understand.
`
`Is that fair?
`
`A.
`
`That is fair.
`
`Q.
`
`And if you don‘t understand one of my
`
`
`questions —— or if you answer,
`
`I will assume that you
`
`have understood my questions.
`
`Fair.
`
`That,
`
`too,
`
`is fair.
`
`We will try to take a break periodically.
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`I may need one more frequently than usual just to
`
`give my voice a break; but if you need a break at any
`
`point
`
`in time,
`
`just please let me know.
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`I will do so.
`
`The only thing I ask is if I have a
`
`question pending, let's answer the question before we
`
`ask for a break.
`
`Is that fair?
`
`A.
`
`That is fair.
`
`Q.
`
`Okay. Are you aware of anything that
`
`would prevent you from testifying truthfully and
`
`completely today?
`
`A.
`
`No,
`
`I am not.
`
`MS. ASCARRUNZ: Okay.
`
`So I'm going to hand
`
`
`
`DAVID FELDMAN WORLDWIDE, INC. - A VERITEXT COMPANY
`330 Old Country Road — Ste. 300, Mineola, NY I 1501 1.800.727.4396
`
`UNITED THERAPEUTICS, EX. 2033
`WATSON LABORATORIES v. UNITED THERAPEUTICS, |PR2017-01622
`
`Page 7 of 137
`
`
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`
`
`
`
`SCOTT BENNETT Ph.D.
`
`you the first exhibit.
`
`(Whereupon,
`
`a certain
`
`document was marked
`
`Exhibit 1013 for
`
`identification.)
`
`MS. ASCARRUNZ: And,
`
`for the record,
`
`this is
`
`Exhibit 1013 in IPR Proceeding Trial No.
`
`IPR
`
`2017—01622.
`
`BY MS. ASCARRUNZ:
`
`Q.
`
`Dr. Bennett,
`
`is this a copy of your
`
`declaration that was submitted in trial No.
`
`IPR
`
`2017—01622 in connection with Patent 9,339,507?
`
`MR. SOMMER: Object
`
`to form.
`
`BY THE WITNESS:
`
`A.
`
`The patent number you just provided does
`
`not match the patent number on the cover page.
`
`Do I fail to mis mm do I fail to
`
`understand something?
`
`BY MS. ASCARRUNZ:
`
`Q.
`
`Let me make sure I handed you —— okay.
`
`So let me rephrase the question
`
`then.
`
`Is this a copy of your declaration
`
`that was submitted in trial No.
`
`IPR 2017~01621 in
`
`
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`
`
`DAVID FELDMAN WORLDWIDE, INC. - A VERITEXT COMPANY
`330 Old Country Road — Ste. 300, Mineola, NY I 1501 1.800.727.4396
`
`UNITED THERAPEUTICS, EX. 2033
`WATSON LABORATORIES v. UNITED THERAPEUTICS, |PR2017-01622
`
`Page 8 of 137
`
`
`
`
`
`SCOTT BENNETT Ph.D.
`
`connection with Patent 9,358,240?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`It appears to be so.
`
`Okay. And on Page 16 of this document is
`
`that your signature?
`
`MR. SOMMER: Object
`
`to form.
`
`BY MS. ASCARRUNZ:
`
`Q.
`
`Let me clarify.
`
`For the record, it's
`
`numbered Page 16 of the document, but at the bottom
`
`it says,
`
`"Page 18 of T4.“
`
`Is that your signature on this page?
`
`Yes, it is.
`
`Okay. And Exhibit A to this declaration
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`is a copy of your current CV?
`
`A.
`
`Exhibit A is a copy of my CV, which was
`
`current at the time that I signed this declaration,
`
`which was the 20th of June, 201?.
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`Okay.
`
`Is it current as of today?
`
`No.
`
`Q.
`
`Okay. What would the changes be to this
`
`CV that would make it current as of today?
`
`A.
`
`If you'll look on Page 17 of the
`
`declaration, which is Page 19 of 74 of the document,
`
`you'll see in the first bulleted item under
`
`"Employment" a description of my work for Prior Art
`
`
`
`DAVID FELDMAN WORLDWIDE, INC. - A VERITEXT COMPANY
`330 Old Country Road — Ste. 300, Mineola, NY I 1501 1.800.727.4396
`
`UNITED THERAPEUTICS, EX. 2033
`WATSON LABORATORIES v. UNITED THERAPEUTICS, IPR2017-01622
`
`Page 9 of 137
`
`
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`
`
`
`
`l0
`
`SCOTT BENNETT Ph.D.
`
`Documentation Services, LLC.
`
`We‘re in the process of closing the
`
`business, and so,
`
`for instance,
`
`the website no
`
`longer —— the website listed there no longer provides
`
`information about our business.
`
`O.
`
`Okay. And why are you closing the
`
`business?
`
`A. We're closing the business because we got
`
`more business than was —— than we wanted to handle.
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`Okay.
`
`The other change,
`
`just to be complete
`
`about it,
`
`is the second bulleted item says that I'm a
`
`consultant on library space planning.
`
`I've also closed that business, and
`
`the website listed there is no longer —— no longer
`
`
`provides information about that business.
`
`Q.
`
`Okay. With respect to the Prior Art
`
`Documentation Services, LLC, you said you're in the
`
`
`process or closing it.
`
`I guess I'm trying to understand
`
`what exactly does that mean?
`
`A.
`
`In September of 2017 we stopped taking
`
`new clients.
`
`Q.
`
`Okay.
`
`
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`
`
`DAVID FELDMAN WORLDWIDE, INC. - A VERITEXT COMPANY
`330 Old Country Road — Ste. 300, Mineola, NY 1 1501 1.800.727.4396
`
`UNITED THERAPEUTICS, EX. 2033
`WATSON LABORATORIES v. UNITED THERAPEUTICS, |PR2017-01622
`
`Page 10 of 137
`
`
`
`
`
`SCOTT BENNETT Ph.D.
`
`ll
`
`A.
`
`And we said that we would support the
`
`needs of our former clients through calendar year
`
`2018.
`
`The primary needs envisioned at that time were
`
`depositions, such as this morning‘s deposition.
`
`O.
`
`Okay. Understood.
`
`And with respect to the consultant
`
`as a library space design,
`
`I
`
`think you also stated
`
`that you were in the process of closing that.
`
`Is —— what does that mean with
`
`respect to that particular task?
`
`That business is closed.
`
`Okay.
`
`I am no longer providing consulting
`
`
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`services on library space planning.
`
`Q.
`
`Okay.
`
`Thank you.
`
`And after you finalize the closing
`
`of Prior Art Documentation Services, LLC, do you have
`
`plans to restart or open a similar business?
`
`A.
`
`No.
`
`MS. ASCARRUNZ: Okay.
`
`I will hand to you the
`
`next exhibit.
`
`
`
`DAVID FELDMAN WORLDWIDE, INC. - A VERITEXT COMPANY
`330 Old Country Road — Ste. 300, Mineola, NY I 1501 1.800.727.4396
`
`UNITED THERAPEUTICS, EX. 2033
`WATSON LABORATORIES v. UNITED THERAPEUTICS, IPR2017-01622
`
`Page 11 of 137
`
`
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`
`
`
`
`SCOTT BENNETT Ph.D.
`
`12
`
`(Whereupon,
`
`a certain
`
`document was marked
`
`Exhibit 1014 for
`
`identification.)
`
`BY MS. ASCARRUNZ:
`
`Q.
`
`And, as with the other one, you can look
`
`through as much of it as you need to, and at any
`
`point that I ask any questions —— you have now I
`
`think in front of you both of your declarations.
`
`You can —— at any point if you need
`
`to go look through a document, please feel free to do
`
`so.
`
`So my question to you on this one
`
`is:
`
`Is this a copy of your declaration that was
`
`submitted in Trial No.
`
`IPR 2017—01622 in connection
`
`with Patent 9,339,507?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`It appears to be.
`
`And that —— is that your signature on
`
`
`Page 16 o:
`
`the document, page 18 of ?4 on the stamp
`
`at the bottom?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Yes, it is.
`
`Are these,
`
`in fact,
`
`the same identical
`
`declaration ——
`
`MR. SOMMER: Object
`
`to form.
`
`
`
`DAVID FELDMAN WORLDWIDE, INC. - A VERITEXT COMPANY
`330 Old Country Road — Ste. 300, Mineola, NY I 1501 1.800.727.4396
`
`UNITED THERAPEUTICS, EX. 2033
`WATSON LABORATORIES v. UNITED THERAPEUTICS, |PR2017-01622
`
`Page 12 of 137
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`
`
`
`
`l3
`
`SCOTT BENNETT Ph.D.
`
`BY MS. ASCARRUNZ:
`
`Q.
`
`
`—— the first exhibit and the second
`
`exhibit that I handed you?
`
`MR. SOMMER: Object
`
`to form.
`
`BY THE WITNESS:
`
`A.
`
`They are substantively the same document.
`
`BY MS. ASCARRUNZ:
`
`Q.
`
`Are you aware of any differences apart
`
`from the coverage page?
`
`A.
`
`I'm aware of no substantive difference
`
`between the two aside from the cover page.
`
`Q.
`
`Okay. And so is it fair to say that your
`
`opinions don‘t differ depending on which of the two
`
`proceedings we‘re talking about?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Yes,
`
`that is a fair statement.
`
`Okay.
`
`So in our discussion today when I
`
`
`refer to your opinion,
`T will be referring to your
`
`opinion in connection with both proceedings;
`
`is that
`
`fair?
`
`A.
`
`Yes,
`
`that is fair.
`
`MS. ASCARRUNZ: And, Andrew,
`
`I notice at the
`
`beginning you clarified the record to indicate both
`
`docket numbers.
`
`
`
`Can we agree that this deposition
`
`DAVID FELDMAN WORLDWIDE, INC. - A VERITEXT COMPANY
`330 Old Country Road — Ste. 300, Mineola, NY 1 1501 1.800.727.4396
`
`UNITED THERAPEUTICS, EX. 2033
`WATSON LABORATORIES v. UNITED THERAPEUTICS, |PR2017-01622
`
`Page 13 of 137
`
`
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`
`
`
`
`SCOTT BENNETT Ph.D.
`
`14
`
`transcript will be entered and used for both IPR
`
`proceedings?
`
`MR. SOMMER: Yes.
`
`BY MS. ASCARRUNZ:
`
`Q.
`
`Okay. Dr. Bennett,
`
`I‘d like to talk a
`
`little bit now about your background and Your
`
`expertise.
`
`I understand that you're a retired
`
`librarian;
`
`is that correct?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`years ago?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`That is correct.
`
`Okay. And you retired approximately 16
`
`I retired in 2001.
`
`And Paragraph 2 of your declaration
`
`indicates that you were —— that you are working as a
`
`managing partner of the firm Prior Art Documentation,
`
`LLC;
`
`is that correct?
`
`A.
`
`That is correct as of the date that I
`
`signed this declaration.
`
`Q.
`
`Okay. And as we discussed. as of now
`
`that entity is in the process of being closed down;
`
`correct?
`
`A.
`
`That is correct.
`
`Q.
`
`Okay. When and why did you open Prior
`
`
`
`DAVID FELDMAN WORLDWIDE, INC. - A VERITEXT COMPANY
`330 Old Country Road — Ste. 300, Mineola, NY I 1501 1.800.727.4396
`
`UNITED THERAPEUTICS, EX. 2033
`WATSON LABORATORIES v. UNITED THERAPEUTICS, IPR2017-01622
`
`Page 14 of 137
`
`
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`
`
`
`
`l5
`
`SCOTT BENNETT Ph.D.
`
`Art Documentation, LLC?
`
`MR. SOMMER: Object
`
`to form.
`
`MS. ASCARRUNZ:
`
`Let me take one at a time.
`
`BY MS. ASCARRUNZ:
`
`Q.
`
`When did you open Prior Art
`
`Documentation, LLC?
`
`A.
`
`We opened Prior Art Documentation, LLC in
`
`2015.
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`And why did you open that business?
`
`I had a call from a patent attorney
`
`asking me about a document that was classified using
`
`what is called the old Yale classification scheme.
`
`The patent attorney, seeing :hat
`
`had worked at Yale,
`
`thought
`
`I might be able to help.
`
`
`
`
`
`I was able to help, authenticate and
`
`date the document,
`
`the patent attorney observed that
`
`there was a business —~ very likely a good business
`
`opportunity here, and that
`
`led me to identify a
`
`
`couple 0: partners, and we opened the business.
`
`Q.
`
`Okay. Which partners did you open the
`
`business with?
`
`A.
`
`One of the partners is Helen Sullivan,
`
`also a managing partner in Prior Art Documentation
`
`Services. Her work for our firm is described in
`
`
`
`DAVID FELDMAN WORLDWIDE, INC. - A VERITEXT COMPANY
`330 Old Country Road — Ste. 300, Mineola, NY 11501 1.800.727.4396
`
`UNITED THERAPEUTICS, EX. 2033
`WATSON LABORATORIES v. UNITED THERAPEUTICS, IPR2017-01622
`
`Page 15 of 137
`
`
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`
`
`
`
`SCOTT BENNETT Ph.D.
`
`l6
`
`page —— in Paragraph 46 of the declaration.
`
`The other partner is Robert Berger.
`
`He also is a managing partner.
`
`Q.
`
`And what are their current roles now that
`
`Prior Art Documentation, LLC is in the process of
`
`being closed down?
`
`A.
`
`Like me,
`
`they stand ready to support any
`
`needs of our former clients.
`
`Q.
`
`Okay. And you mentioned Yale.
`
`You have experience working as a
`
`librarian at three institutions; correct?
`
`A.
`
`No.
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Why is that incorrect?
`
`The number is four.
`
`Okay. And Paragraph 5 of your
`
`declaration indicates you also worked as a
`
`researcher;
`
`is that correct?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`That is correct.
`
`What kind of researcher?
`
`My research interests were textual
`
`editing, British publishing history,
`
`the preservation
`
`of library materials,
`
`the management of library
`
`collections, and the future —— the future direction
`
`of academic libraries, and library space planning.
`
`
`
`DAVID FELDMAN WORLDWIDE, INC. - A VERITEXT COMPANY
`330 Old Country Road — Ste. 300, Mineola, NY 1 1501 1.800.727.4396
`
`UNITED THERAPEUTICS, EX. 2033
`WATSON LABORATORIES v. UNITED THERAPEUTICS, |PR2017-01622
`
`Page 16 of 137
`
`
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`
`
`
`
`SCOTT BENNETT Ph.D.
`
`17
`
`Q.
`
`Okay. Have you worked as a scientific or
`
`medical researcher?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`No,
`
`I have not.
`
`And you indicated that you have some
`
`general knowledge of how researchers work;
`
`is that
`
`correct?
`
`A.
`
`I do say at the end of Paragraph 6 that
`
`in these several ways enumerated in Paragraph 6 I
`
`have a general knowledge of how researchers work.
`
`Q.
`
`Okay. But you don't claim to be an
`
`
`
`in scienti‘ic research; do you?
`expert
`
`MR. SUMMER: Object
`
`to form.
`
`BY THE WITNESS:
`
`A.
`
`Perhaps you would identify what you mean
`
`by an expert
`
`in scientific research.
`
`BY MS. ASCARRUNZ:
`
`Q.
`
`Do you consider yourself an expert
`
`in
`
`medical research?
`
`MR. SOMMER:
`
`Same objection.
`
`BY THE WITNESS:
`
`A.
`
`I can't answer your question without
`
`knowing what you mean by an expert
`
`in medical
`
`research.
`
`
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`
`
`DAVID FELDMAN WORLDWIDE, INC. - A VERITEXT COMPANY
`330 Old Country Road — Ste. 300, Mineola, NY 1 1501 1.800.727.4396
`
`UNITED THERAPEUTICS, EX. 2033
`WATSON LABORATORIES v. UNITED THERAPEUTICS, |PR2017-01622
`
`Page 17 of 137
`
`
`
`
`
`18
`
`SCOTT BENNETT Ph.D.
`
`BY MS. ASCARRUNZ:
`
`Q. Which —— is your concern with the word
`
`medical research,
`
`is that vague to you?
`
`A.
`
`O.
`
`It's imprecise.
`
`Okay. Have you yourself performed any
`
`medical research?
`
`MR. SOMMER: Object
`
`to form.
`
`BY THE WITNESS:
`
`A.
`
`As
`
`I mentioned,
`
`the term medical research
`
`
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`is an imprecise term.
`
`BY MS. ASCARRUNZ:
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`Okay.
`
`And without further specification,
`
`I
`
`don't know how truthfully and accurately to answer
`
`your question.
`
`O.
`
`Sure. Let me try to come at it a
`
`different way.
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Thank you.
`
`Have you published any peer review
`
`publications in any medical
`
`journals?
`
`A.
`
`No.
`
`Q.
`
`Have you published any peer review
`
`publications in any scientific journals?
`
`A.
`
`No.
`
`
`
`DAVID FELDMAN WORLDWIDE, INC. - A VERITEXT COMPANY
`330 Old Country Road — Ste. 300, Mineola, NY I 1501 1.800.727.4396
`
`UNITED THERAPEUTICS, EX. 2033
`WATSON LABORATORIES v. UNITED THERAPEUTICS, |PR2017-01622
`
`Page 18 of 137
`
`
`
`
`
`SCOTT BENNETT Ph.D.
`
`l9
`
`Q.
`
`Have you researched such publications in
`
`the source of your work?
`
`MR. SOMMER: Object
`
`to form.
`
`BY THE WITNESS:
`
`A.
`
`Could you tell me, please, what you mean
`
`by researched?
`
`BY MS. ASCARRUNZ:
`
`Q.
`
`Have you reviewed peer review
`
`publications in scientific journals for purposes of
`
`
`performing literature research?
`
`MR. SOMMER: Object
`
`to form.
`
`BY THE WITNESS:
`
`A.
`
`Yes.
`
`BY MS. ASCARRUNZ:
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`Okay.
`
`In what context?
`
`In the context of being an academic
`
`librarian and in the context of being a managing
`
`partner in Prior Art Documentation Services.
`
`Q.
`
`Okay.
`
`Is it fair to say that your
`
`declaration was written from your perspective as an
`
`expert?
`
`MR. SOMMER: Object
`
`to form.
`
`
`BY THE WITNESS:
`
`A.
`
`It's fair to say that the declaration
`
`
`
`DAVID FELDMAN WORLDWIDE, INC. - A VERITEXT COMPANY
`330 Old Country Road — Ste. 300, Mineola, NY I 1501 1.800.727.4396
`
`UNITED THERAPEUTICS, EX. 2033
`WATSON LABORATORIES v. UNITED THERAPEUTICS, |PR2017-01622
`
`Page 19 of 137
`
`
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`
`
`
`
`SCOTT BENNETT Ph.D.
`
`20
`
`reflects expert knowledge.
`
`BY MS. ASCARRUNZ:
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`And what is Your expert knowledge in?
`
`If you'll look at Paragraph 5, you'll see
`
`there that my expertise involves extensive experience
`
`with catalog records and online library management
`
`systems built around Machine—Readable cataloging
`
`standards.
`
`My expertise also relates to having
`
`substantial experience in authenticating printed
`
`documents and establishing the date when they were
`
`accessible to researchers.
`
`In Paragraph 6 you will see that my
`
`expertise relates to having some knowledge of the
`
`voluminous professional literature on the information
`
`seeking behaviors of academic researchers.
`
`And my expertise also relates to
`
`being an educator where I have a broad knowledge ——
`
`this also in Paragraph 6 —— a broad knowledge of the
`
`ways in which students in a variety of disciplines
`
`learn to master the bibliographic resources used in
`
`their disciplines.
`
`Q.
`
`Okay. And then the following sentence
`
`says, "In all of these ways I have a general
`
`
`
`DAVID FELDMAN WORLDWIDE, INC. - A VERITEXT COMPANY
`330 Old Country Road — Ste. 300, Mineola, NY 11501 1.800.727.4396
`
`UNITED THERAPEUTICS, EX. 2033
`WATSON LABORATORIES v. UNITED THERAPEUTICS, |PR2017-01622
`
`Page 20 of 137
`
`
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`
`
`
`
`21
`
`SCOTT BENNETT Ph.D.
`
`knowledge of how researchers work."
`
`Do you claim to have expert
`
`
`knowledge or how researchers work?
`
`A.
`
`The word experts in general are terms
`
`describing relative degrees of things.
`
`So I certainly have more knowledge
`
`of the way in which researchers work than most people
`
`do.
`
`One might say that that's a general
`
`knowledge. One might also say that that's an
`
`expert's knowledge.
`
`It —— it —— you need to give me the
`
`comparison, and then I will —~
`
`I will answer your
`
`question as to the degree of expertise.
`
`Q. Well, I'd like to know what you say.
`
`Do you consider yourself an expert
`
`in how researchers work?
`
`MR. SUMMER: Object
`
`to form.
`
`BY THE WITNESS:
`
`A.
`
`What
`
`I say is what
`
`I wrote, which is that
`
`I have a general knowledge of how researchers work.
`
`BY MS. ASCARRUNZ:
`
`Q.
`
`And the sentence —— the second to the
`
`last sentence in Paragraph 6 you also allowed into
`
`
`
`DAVID FELDMAN WORLDWIDE, INC. - A VERITEXT COMPANY
`330 Old Country Road — Ste. 300, Mineola, NY I 1501 1.800.727.4396
`
`UNITED THERAPEUTICS, EX. 2033
`WATSON LABORATORIES v. UNITED THERAPEUTICS, |PR2017-01622
`
`Page 21 of 137
`
`
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`
`
`
`
`SCOTT BENNETT Ph.D.
`
`22
`
`the record and states that as an educator you have a
`
`broad knowledge of the ways in which students in a
`
`variety of disciplines learn to master the
`
`bibliographic resources used in their disciplines.
`
`What do you mean in that sentence
`
`by —— or actually let me rephrase that.
`
`When you refer to students in a
`
`variety of disciplines, which disciplines are you
`
`talking about?
`
`A. Well, your question is best answered,
`
`I
`
`believe, by mentioning that between 2004 and 2009 I
`
`was a consultant —— oops,
`
`I‘m sorry. Between 2001
`
`and 2009 I was a senior advisor for the library
`
`programs at the Council of Independent Colleges.
`
`This is mentioned in Appendix A,
`
`which is on Page -— the third bulleted item, Page 1?,
`
`or Page 19 of 74 in the declaration.
`
`My work during those eight years was
`
`to advise the Council of Independent Colleges on its
`
`program fostering what librarians call information
`
`literacy.
`
`The Council of Independent Colleges
`
`has over 500 liberal arts colleges at university
`
`members. At the time they were a -— the council and
`
`
`
`DAVID FELDMAN WORLDWIDE, INC. - A VERITEXT COMPANY
`330 Old Country Road — Ste. 300, Mineola, NY 11501 1.800.727.4396
`
`UNITED THERAPEUTICS, EX. 2033
`WATSON LABORATORIES v. UNITED THERAPEUTICS, IPR2017-01622
`
`Page 22 of 137
`
`
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`
`
`
`
`SCOTT BENNETT Ph.D.
`
`23
`
`its members were interested in enhancing the
`
`information literacy of its students. We offered
`
`workshops for about 250 of those members.
`
`The
`
`workshops were attended,
`
`therefore, by nearly 1000
`
`people representing those institutions.
`
`Those
`
`institutions have academic programs in almost all
`
`disciplines.
`
`So to go back to Page 3 about which
`
`you asked,
`
`I meant to reflect that experience in
`
`saying that I have a broad knowledge of the way in
`
`which students in a variety of disciplines,
`
`that is,
`
`the disciplines taught at these 250 institutions,
`
`learned to master bibliographic resources because
`
`that's what our workshops were about.
`
`Q.
`
`I understand.
`
`Thank you.
`
`You don't -— you don't claim to be
`
`an expert
`
`in the law; correct?
`
`A.
`
`In Paragraph 7
`
`I assert that I am not a
`
`lawyer and am not rendering an opinion on a legal
`
`question.
`
`Q.
`
`Okay.
`
`So that‘s right, you don't claim
`
`to be an expert
`
`in the law; correct?
`
`A.
`
`That‘s a reasonable inference from what
`
`I
`
`say in the declaration.
`
`
`
`DAVID FELDMAN WORLDWIDE, INC. - A VERITEXT COMPANY
`330 Old Country Road — Ste. 300, Mineola, NY 11501 1.800.727.4396
`
`UNITED THERAPEUTICS, EX. 2033
`WATSON LABORATORIES v. UNITED THERAPEUTICS, |PR2017-01622
`
`Page 23 of 137
`
`
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`
`
`
`
`SCOTT BENNETT Ph.D.
`
`24
`
`Q.
`
`And you're not rendering an opinion on
`
`whether or not any document is prior art under the
`
`law; correct?
`
`A.
`
`I —— so I say that explicitly in
`
`Paragraph 2.
`
`Q.
`
`And you're not rendering an opinion on
`
`whether or not any document is a printed publication
`
`under the law; correct?
`
`A.
`
`I'm sorry. That is what
`
`I say in the
`
`declaration.
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Okay.
`
`In Paragraph ?.
`
`In Paragraphs 10 through 12 of your
`
`report —— oh,
`
`I'm sorry —— your declaration m— you
`
`began several statements indicating that you were
`
`told several things by counsel.
`
`Do you see that?
`
`I do see that.
`
`Are you providing your own opinion
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`regarding the matters in Paragraphs 10 through 12?
`
`A.
`
`No.
`
`Q.
`
`So,
`
`for example, you're not providing any
`
`opinion about what the patents in these proceedings
`
`relate to; correct?
`
`
`
`DAVID FELDMAN WORLDWIDE, INC. - A VERITEXT COMPANY
`330 Old Country Road — Ste. 300, Mineola, NY 1 1501 1.800.727.4396
`
`UNITED THERAPEUTICS, EX. 2033
`WATSON LABORATORIES v. UNITED THERAPEUTICS, IPR2017-01622
`
`Page 24 of 137
`
`
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`
`
`
`
`SCOTT BENNETT Ph.D.
`
`25
`
`A.
`
`I'm providing opinions about documents
`
`that I presume relate to the patents.
`
`Q.
`
`Okay. Have you reviewed the patents at
`
`issue in these proceedings at all?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`No,
`
`I have not.
`
`Okay. And you‘re not claiming to have
`
`any expertise in drug administration; right?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`No,
`
`I am not —— do not.
`
`And you're not claiming to have any
`
`expertise in pulmonary hypertension; correct?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Correct.
`
`And you're not claiming to have any
`
`expertise in the administration of inhaled drugs;
`
`correct?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`I claim no such expertise.
`
`And you're —— you don‘t claim to have any
`
`expertise in pulse ultrasonic nebulizers; correct?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`No expertise there, either.
`
`And in Paragraphs ll and 12 of your
`
`declaration you indicate there that you were informed
`
`by counsel of what a person of ordinary skill in the
`
`art is;
`
`is that right?
`
`A.
`
`That is correct.
`
`Q.
`
`Is that a term that you‘ve become
`
`
`
`DAVID FELDMAN WORLDWIDE, INC. - A VERITEXT COMPANY
`330 Old Country Road — Ste. 300, Mineola, NY I 1501 1.800.727.4396
`
`UNITED THERAPEUTICS, EX. 2033
`WATSON LABORATORIES v. UNITED THERAPEUTICS, |PR2017-01622
`
`Page 25 of 137
`
`
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`
`
`
`
`SCOTT BENNETT Ph.D.
`
`26
`
`familiar with in the —— in connection with your work?
`
`A.
`
`Yes.
`
`Q.
`
`But
`
`in this proceeding you're not
`
`yourself providing a definition of what a person of
`
`ordinary skill in the art is; correct?
`
`MR. SOMMER: Object
`
`to form.
`
`BY THE WITNESS:
`
`A. Well,
`
`this paragraph describes what ——
`
`a —— some attributes of a person of ordinary skill in
`
`this subject.
`
`BY MS. ASCARRUNZ:
`
`Q.
`
`And those attributes are not ones that
`
`you chose or decided on,
`
`they were provided to you by
`
`counsel;
`
`is that fair?
`
`A.
`
`That is correct.
`
`Q.
`
`Okay. Does your opinion regarding —-
`
`well, strike that.
`
`Does your opinion in your
`
`declaration depend on this understanding of what a
`
`person of ordinary skill in the art is?
`
`MR. SOMMER: Object
`
`to form.
`
`BY THE WITNESS:
`
`A.
`
`My declaration depends upon it only to
`
`the degree specified in Paragraph 13 about which you
`
`
`
`DAVID FELDMAN WORLDWIDE, INC. - A VERITEXT COMPANY
`330 Old Country Road — Ste. 300, Mineola, NY I 1501 1.800.727.4396
`
`UNITED THERAPEUTICS, EX. 2033
`WATSON LABORATORIES v. UNITED THERAPEUTICS, IPR2017-01622
`
`Page 26 of 137
`
`
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`
`
`
`
`SCOTT BENNETT Ph.D.
`
`27
`
`have not yet asked ——
`
`BY MS. ASCARRUNZ:
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`Okay.
`
`—— where I do express an opinion about
`
`what one would suppose to be the case about a person
`
`
`oF ordinary skil1 in the art, who is,
`
`I remind us,
`
`a
`
`hypothetical person.
`
`Q.
`
`Okay. And your opinion set forth in
`
`Paragraph 13 and —— well,
`
`let‘s start with just
`
`Paragraph 13.
`
`Your opinion set forth in
`
`Paragraph 13 considering the person of ordinary skill
`
`in the art as it was defined to you by counsel;
`
`is
`
`that right?
`
`A.
`
`The assertions —— I‘m sorry —— the
`
`opinions expressed in 13 relate to the kind of person
`
`described in Paragraphs ll and 12.
`
`Q.
`
`Okay. And apart from the kind of person
`
`described in Paragraphs ll and 12, you didn't
`
`consider any alternative type of person;
`
`is that
`
`right?
`
`MR. SOMMER: Object
`
`to form.
`
`
`BY THE WITNESS:
`
`A. Well,
`
`I
`
`think that's right if I
`
`
`
`DAVID FELDMAN WORLDWIDE, INC. - A VERITEXT COMPANY
`330 Old Country Road — Ste. 300, Mineola, NY 1 1501 1.800.727.4396
`
`UNITED THERAPEUTICS, EX. 2033
`WATSON LABORATORIES v. UNITED THERAPEUTICS, IPR2017-01622
`
`Page 27 of 137
`
`
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`
`
`
`
`SCOTT BENNETT Ph.D.
`
`28
`
`understand your question.
`
`BY MS. ASCARRUNZ:
`
`Q.
`
`All right. Let me make sure that you do
`
`understand my question because that was a good
`
`objection. That was really rather a cumbersome
`
`question.
`
`What I'm trying to get at is you
`
`took the person of ordinary skill as it was defined
`
`to you by counsel and applied that in your opinions;
`
`
`is that fair?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Yes,
`
`that is fair.
`
`Okay. Did you consider —— and that is
`
`the only person of ordinary skill that you considered
`
`in forming your opinions?
`
`A. Well,
`
`if you mean that I did not have in
`
`my imagination a different set of attributes
`
`different from those described,
`
`for instance,
`
`in
`
`Paragraph 12,
`
`that is correct, yes.
`
`Q.
`
`Okay.
`
`Thank you.
`
`You phrased that far
`
`better than I could have.
`
`Thank you.
`
`You yourself do not claim to be a
`
`person of ordinary skill in the art;
`
`is that right?
`
`Let me rephrase that.
`
`
`
`You yourself do not claim to be a
`
`DAVID FELDMAN WORLDWIDE, INC. - A VERITEXT COMPANY
`330 Old Country Road — Ste. 300, Mineola, NY I 1501 1.800.727.4396
`
`UNITED THERAPEUTICS, EX. 2033
`WATSON LABORATORIES v. UNITED THERAPEUTICS, IPR2017-01622
`
`Page 28 of 137
`
`
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`
`
`
`
`SCOTT BENNETT Ph.D.
`
`29
`
`person of ordinary skill in the art as defined in
`
`Paragraphs 11 and 12?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`That is right.
`
`Okay. And you have never been a person
`
`
`of ordinary skIlI
`In the art as defined in Paragraphs
`
`11 and 12?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`That,
`
`too,
`
`is right.
`
`And you are also not a person of
`
`extraordinary skill in the art of the subject matters
`
`in Paragraphs 11 and 12;
`
`is that right?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`That
`
`u— true. That is also right.
`
`Is any statement
`
`in Paragraphs 11 and 12
`
`an opinion that you personally are taking based on
`
`your expertise?
`
`A.
`
`There is nothing in Paragraphs 11 and 12
`
`that I would state differently based on my own
`
`expertise.
`
`Q.
`
`So that's a little bit of a different
`
`question than the one I asked.
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`I'm sorry.
`
`Is there any statement is Paragraphs 11
`
`and 12 that are your expert opinion on the matter
`
`stated, or are these assumptions that were given to
`
`you by counsel?
`
`
`
`DAVID FELDMAN WORLDWIDE, INC. - A VERITEXT COMPANY
`330 Old Country Road — Ste. 300, Mineola, NY I 1501 1.800.727.4396
`
`UNITED THERAPEUTICS, EX. 2033
`WATSON LABORATORIES v. UNITED THERAPEUTICS, |PR2017-01622
`
`Page 29 of 137
`
`
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`
`
`
`
`SCOTT BENNETT Ph.D.
`
`30
`
`A.
`
`Paragraphs :1 and 12 are definitions of a
`
`
`person 0“ ordinary skil' provided to me by counsel.
`
`
`
`Q.
`
`You don't claim to be an expert
`
`in the
`
`treatment of pulmonary hypertension; right?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`No,
`
`I make no such claim.
`
`And you don't claim to be a person of
`
`ordinary skill in the art in the treatment of
`
`pulmonary hypertension; correct?
`
`A.
`
`I make no such claim.
`
`Q.
`
`Before this case had you ever heard of
`
`pulmonary hypertension?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Possibly.
`
`Do you recall having heard of pulmonary
`
`
`hypertension before this case?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`No,
`
`I have no positive recollection.
`
`And before this case had you ever heard
`
`of Treprostinil?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Almost
Accessing this document will incur an additional charge of $.
After purchase, you can access this document again without charge.
Accept $ Charge
Still Working On It
This document is taking longer than usual to download. This can happen if we need to contact the court directly to obtain the document and their servers are running slowly.
Give it another minute or two to complete, and then try the refresh button.
A few More Minutes ... Still Working
It can take up to 5 minutes for us to download a document if the court servers are running slowly.
Thank you for your continued patience.
This document could not be displayed.
We could not find this document within its docket. Please go back to the docket page and check the link. If that does not work, go back to the docket and refresh it to pull the newest information.
Your account does not support viewing this document.
You need a Paid Account to view this document. Click here to change your account type.
Your account does not support viewing this document.
Set your membership
status to view this document.
With a Docket Alarm membership, you'll
get a whole lot more, including:
- Up-to-date information for this case.
- Email alerts whenever there is an update.
- Full text search for other cases.
- Get email alerts whenever a new case matches your search.
One Moment Please
The filing “” is large (MB) and is being downloaded.
Please refresh this page in a few minutes to see if the filing has been downloaded. The filing will also be emailed to you when the download completes.
Your document is on its way!
If you do not receive the document in five minutes, contact support at support@docketalarm.com.
Sealed Document
We are unable to display this document, it may be under a court ordered seal.
If you have proper credentials to access the file, you may proceed directly to the court's system using your government issued username and password.
Access Government Site
