UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`
` ___________________
`
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`
`
` BMW OF NORTH AMERICA, LLC,
`
` Petitioners,
`
` vs.
`
` STRAGENT, LLC,
`
` Patent Owner.
` ________________
`
`
`
` Case IPR2017-01519 CASE IPR2017-01520
` U.S. Patent 8,566,843 U.S. Patent 8,566,843
`
` Case IPR2017-01521 Case IPR2017-01521
` U.S. Patent 8,209,705 U.S. Patent 8,209,705
`
` DEPOSITION OF JEFFREY A. MILLER, Ph.D.
`
`Thursday, June 21, 2018
` 740 North Garey Avenue
`Pomona, California 91767
`
` PARK AVENUE DEPOSITION SERVICE
`REPORTED BY: 740 NORTH GAREY AVENUE
`Serena Wong POMONA, CA 91767
`CSR #10250, RPR, CCRR #200 (800) 447-3376
`
`
`
`Page 1 of 134
`
`BMW EXHIBIT 1027
`BMW v. STRAGENT
`IPR2017-01522
`
`
`
` ___________________
`
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`
`
` BMW OF NORTH AMERICA, LLC,
`
` Petitioners,
`
` vs.
`
` STRAGENT, LLC,
`
` Patent Owner.
` ________________
`
`
`
` Case IPR2017-01519 CASE IPR2017-01520
` U.S. Patent 8,566,843 U.S. Patent 8,566,843
`
` Case IPR2017-01521 Case IPR2017-01521
` U.S. Patent 8,209,705 U.S. Patent 8,209,705
`
` DEPOSITION OF JEFFREY A. MILLER, Ph.D.
`
`Thursday, June 21, 2018
` 740 North Garey Avenue
`Pomona, California 91767
`
` PARK AVENUE DEPOSITION SERVICE
`REPORTED BY: 740 NORTH GAREY AVENUE
`Serena Wong POMONA, CA 91767
`CSR #10250, RPR, CCRR #200 (800) 447-3376
`
`
`
`Page 1 of 134
`
`BMW EXHIBIT 1027
`BMW v. STRAGENT
`IPR2017-01522
`
`
`
`APEARANCES:
`
`
`For the Petitioners:
`
`FINNEGAN, HENDERSON, FARABOW, GARRETT &
` DUNNER, LLP
`BY: SEAN D. DAMON, ESQ.
` LIONEL M. LAVENUE, ESQ.
`901 New York Avenue, NW
`Washington, DC 20001
`202.408.4000
` sean.damon@finnegan.com
`
`For the Patent Owner and Dr. Miller:
`
`O'KELLY & ERNST, LLC
`BY: GEORGE PAZUNIAK, ESQ.
`901 North Market Street
`Suite 1000
`Wilmington, Delaware 19801
`302.778.4000
`gpazuniak@oeblegal.com
`
`
`
`
` 1
`
` 2
`
` 3
`
` 4
`
` 5
`
` 6
`
` 7
`
` 8
`
` 9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`
` PARK AVENUE DEPOSITION SERVICE (800) 447-3376 2
`740 NORTH GAREY - POMONA, CA 91767
`
`Page 2 of 134
`
`
`
` 1
`
` 2
`
` 3
`
` 4
`
` 5
`
` 6
`
` 7
`
` 8
`
` 9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` INDEX
`
`WITNESS: Jeffrey A. Miller, Ph.D.
`
`EXAMINATION
`
` PAGE
`
`Mr. Damon 4, 129
`
`Mr. Pazuniak 125
`
`
` INDEX TO EXHIBITS
`
`EXHIBITS FOR
`
`IPR IPR
`1519 1521
`1520 1522
`
` MARKED
`
`1025 1021 Truth Table 13
`
`1026 1022 Microsoft Computer Dictionary 25
` Third Edition
`
`1027 1023 Declaration of Jeffrey A. Miller 51
` In Case IPR2017-00676, Patent
` 8,209,705
`
`1028 1024 Declaration of Jeffrey A. Miller 51
` In Case IPR2017-00677, Patent
` 8,566,843
`
`1029 1025 Application Note, Extended Frame 123
` Format - A New Option of the CAN
` Protocol
`
`
` PARK AVENUE DEPOSITION SERVICE (800) 447-3376 3
`740 NORTH GAREY - POMONA, CA 91767
`
`Page 3 of 134
`
`
`
` 1
`
` 2
`
` 3
`
` 4
`
` 5
`
` 6
`
` 7
`
` 8
`
` 9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` THURSDAY, JUNE 21, 2018, 9:02 A.M.
`
` POMONA, CALIFORNIA
`
`JEFFREY MILLER,
`
`was called as a witness, and having been first
`
`duly sworn, was examined and testified as
`
`follows:
`
`BY MR. DAMON:
`
`EXAMINATION
`
`Q
`
`Dr. Miller, can you please state your full
`
`name for the record?
`
`Yes. Jeffrey Miller.
`
`Can you state your home address for the
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`record?
`
`A
`
`1594 Deer Crossing Drive, Diamond Bar,
`
`California, 91765.
`
`Q
`
`And because you've been deposed before,
`
`you're familiar with the deposition process.
`
`However, I just want to go over a few rules to make
`
`sure you understand your role and mine today. So do
`
`you understand that you're under oath and to tell the
`
`truth today under the penalty of perjury?
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`Yes.
`
`And do you understand that your testimony
`
`
` PARK AVENUE DEPOSITION SERVICE (800) 447-3376 4
`740 NORTH GAREY - POMONA, CA 91767
`
`Page 4 of 134
`
`
`
` 1
`
` 2
`
` 3
`
` 4
`
` 5
`
` 6
`
` 7
`
` 8
`
` 9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`today is just like if you were before the Patent
`
`Trial and Appeal Board?
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`Yes.
`
`And so I know you were deposed, but let's
`
`just go over a few rules so everyone is on the same
`
`page. The court reporter is preparing a transcript
`
`of today's testimony. So to create a clear
`
`transcript, one of the rules is you let me finish my
`
`questions before responding. And in turn, I will let
`
`you finish your answers before asking the next
`
`question.
`
`Is that okay?
`
`Yes.
`
`And it's also important that you give
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`verbal responses to my questions rather than gestures
`
`such as a head nod or "uh-huh" because they don't
`
`show up on the transcript.
`
`Is that okay?
`
`Yes.
`
`And I will try to give you a break every
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`hour. I can't promise that. We may go over a little
`
`over an hour. For whatever reason if you need a
`
`break, please let me know. I ask if we have a
`
`pending question, that you please answer the question
`
`before we take that break.
`
`
` PARK AVENUE DEPOSITION SERVICE (800) 447-3376 5
`740 NORTH GAREY - POMONA, CA 91767
`
`Page 5 of 134
`
`
`
` 1
`
` 2
`
` 3
`
` 4
`
` 5
`
` 6
`
` 7
`
` 8
`
` 9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`Is that okay?
`
`Yes.
`
`And I may ask you a question that you may
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`not understand. If that happens, please let me know.
`
`I will try to see if I can clarify it to the best of
`
`my ability. However, you understand that if you
`
`answer the question, it's assumed that you understood
`
`the question.
`
`Is that okay?
`
`Yes.
`
`And as you saw in previous depositions,
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`your attorney may object on the record. Unless he
`
`specifically instructs you not to answer, you're
`
`still required to answer the question.
`
`Do you understand that?
`
`Yes.
`
`Is there any reason today that you cannot
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`provide full, true, and accurate testimony?
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`No.
`
`So you're not sick or anything?
`
`No.
`
`No medication?
`
`No.
`
`And just to go through a little bit of
`
`background, you were deposed on your declarations you
`
`
` PARK AVENUE DEPOSITION SERVICE (800) 447-3376 6
`740 NORTH GAREY - POMONA, CA 91767
`
`Page 6 of 134
`
`
`
` 1
`
` 2
`
` 3
`
` 4
`
` 5
`
` 6
`
` 7
`
` 8
`
` 9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`provided in IPR2017-00676 and -00677 against BMW;
`
`correct?
`
`A
`
`I don't recall the exact numbers, but I was
`
`deposed by BMW in the past.
`
`Q
`
`I will represent those are the two IPR
`
`numbers in the previous case. It's okay you don't
`
`remember the exact numbers. The purpose of asking
`
`that is partly because throughout today's deposition,
`
`I may refer to the IPR2017-00676 -- so we don't have
`
`to say the full name every time, I'm most likely
`
`going to refer to it as IPR-676. You understand if I
`
`say "IPR-676," I'm referring to IPR2017-00676.
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`Yes.
`
`And the same thing is true for
`
`IPR2017-00677. I'll refer to that as IPR-677. You
`
`understand that refers to the full name?
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`Yes.
`
`And you may not remember this. And I can
`
`represent to you that it's true if you do not
`
`remember this, but I'll ask. In the IPR-676
`
`declaration, your opinion relates to U.S. patent
`
`number 8,209,705.
`
`Does that ring a bell?
`
`That seems familiar.
`
`So, yes, I will represent to you 676 does
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`
` PARK AVENUE DEPOSITION SERVICE (800) 447-3376 7
`740 NORTH GAREY - POMONA, CA 91767
`
`Page 7 of 134
`
`
`
` 1
`
` 2
`
` 3
`
` 4
`
` 5
`
` 6
`
` 7
`
` 8
`
` 9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`relate to the U.S. patent number 8,209,705. Again,
`
`to create a shorthand so we don't have to say the
`
`full number, I'll refer to 8,209,705 patent as the
`
`'705 patent.
`
`Do you understand that correlates to the
`
`full name?
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`Yes.
`
`Same is true in your IPR-677 declaration.
`
`You provided opinions as it relates to U.S. patent
`
`number 8,566,843.
`
`Does that sound about right or ring a bell?
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`Yes.
`
`I'm going to refer to U.S. patent number
`
`8,566,843 as the '843 patent.
`
`Is that okay?
`
`Yes.
`
`And at the time you gave your deposition
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`testimony to BMW in the previous matter, you agreed
`
`and understood that you were under oath in that
`
`matter and that you were required to testify
`
`honestly; correct?
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`Yes.
`
`And you indicated in that matter that there
`
`was nothing that would impact your ability to answer
`
`truthfully.
`
`
` PARK AVENUE DEPOSITION SERVICE (800) 447-3376 8
`740 NORTH GAREY - POMONA, CA 91767
`
`Page 8 of 134
`
`
`
` 1
`
` 2
`
` 3
`
` 4
`
` 5
`
` 6
`
` 7
`
` 8
`
` 9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`Do you remember that?
`
`Yes.
`
`So I'm going to hand you a set of four
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`exhibits. The first one has been previously marked
`
`in the case. It is paper No. 23 in IPR2017-01519.
`
`So no need to mark it because it's already been
`
`filed.
`
`George, would you like a copy?
`
`MR. PAZUNIAK: Not unless you're going to
`
`be asking questions about it.
`
`Q
`
`BY MR. DAMON: Have you seen this document
`
`before?
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`A
`
`is?
`
`I believe so.
`
`Can you please state for the record what it
`
`It's titled Petitioner's Notice of
`
`Cross-Examination Of Dr. Jeffrey A Miller.
`
`Q
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`And that is for the IPR-1519; correct?
`
`Yes.
`
`You can put that aside. That's all we need
`
`that for.
`
`I'm handing witness paper No. 23 in
`
`IPR2017-01520. And the same question, have you seen
`
`this document before?
`
`A
`
`I believe so.
`
`
` PARK AVENUE DEPOSITION SERVICE (800) 447-3376 9
`740 NORTH GAREY - POMONA, CA 91767
`
`Page 9 of 134
`
`
`
` 1
`
` 2
`
` 3
`
` 4
`
` 5
`
` 6
`
` 7
`
` 8
`
` 9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`Q
`
`A
`
`Can you state for the record what it is?
`
`It's titled Petitioner's Notice of
`
`Cross-Examination Of Dr. Jeffrey A Miller.
`
`Q
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`And this is for IPR2017-01520; correct?
`
`Yes.
`
`You can put that to the side.
`
`I'm going to hand you paper No. 22, which
`
`has previously been filed in IPR2017-01521. Please
`
`look it over. And then once you have it, state what
`
`it is for the record.
`
`A
`
`It's entitled Petitioner's Notice of
`
`Cross-Examination of Dr. Jeffrey A Miller.
`
`Q
`
`A little repetitive. This is for a case
`
`IPR2017-01521; correct?
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`Yes.
`
`Last one, I'm handing you what has been
`
`previously marked paper No. 23 in IPR2017-01522.
`
`Same exercise. Can you please look it over and let
`
`me know if you've seen it before.
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`A
`
`I believe so.
`
`Can you state for the record what it is.
`
`It's titled Petitioner's Notice of
`
`Cross-Examination of Dr. Jeffrey A Miller.
`
`Q
`
`And this one is for case IPR2017-01522;
`
`correct?
`
`
` PARK AVENUE DEPOSITION SERVICE (800) 447-3376 10
`740 NORTH GAREY - POMONA, CA 91767
`
`Page 10 of 134
`
`
`
` 1
`
` 2
`
` 3
`
` 4
`
` 5
`
` 6
`
` 7
`
` 8
`
` 9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`Yes.
`
`So earlier we created a shorthand for IPR
`
`and patents. I would like to do the same thing, if
`
`that's okay with you. I'll refer to IPR2017-01519 as
`
`IPR-1519.
`
`Do you understand that's referring to the
`
`full IPR?
`
`Yes.
`
`And the same thing is true if I use
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`IPR-1520?
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`Yes.
`
`IPR-1521?
`
`Yes.
`
`And IPR-1522?
`
`Yes.
`
`IPR-1519 and IPR-1520 are challenges to the
`
`'843 patent; correct?
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`I believe so.
`
`And you can look at the deposition notice,
`
`and it should be right on the case caption which
`
`patents number refers to which IPR.
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`Yes, that's what it says.
`
`And so for IPR-1521 and IPR-1522, they
`
`relate to challenges to the '705 patent; correct?
`
`A
`
`Yes.
`
`
` PARK AVENUE DEPOSITION SERVICE (800) 447-3376 11
`740 NORTH GAREY - POMONA, CA 91767
`
`Page 11 of 134
`
`
`
` 1
`
` 2
`
` 3
`
` 4
`
` 5
`
` 6
`
` 7
`
` 8
`
` 9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`Q
`
`Dr. Miller, did you prepare for today's
`
`deposition?
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`Yes.
`
`How did you prepare for today's
`
`deposition?
`
`A
`
`I reviewed the declarations that were filed
`
`for these IPRs. I reviewed the related prior art for
`
`it. And I spoke with the patent owner's attorney.
`
`Q
`
`And let me back up one question. I'm
`
`sorry.
`
`You understand that you're here today to
`
`testify on all four IPR proceedings; correct?
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`Yes.
`
`About how much time did you spend preparing
`
`for today's deposition, ballpark?
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`A few hours perhaps.
`
`In preparing for deposition, did you speak
`
`to anyone other than counsel sitting next to you at
`
`the table?
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`operators?
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`No.
`
`Are you familiar with truth tables by the
`
`Yes.
`
`And I'm going to hand you an exhibit. And
`
`if we could mark this Exhibit 1025 for IPR-1519 and
`
`
` PARK AVENUE DEPOSITION SERVICE (800) 447-3376 12
`740 NORTH GAREY - POMONA, CA 91767
`
`Page 12 of 134
`
`
`
` 1
`
` 2
`
` 3
`
` 4
`
` 5
`
` 6
`
` 7
`
` 8
`
` 9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`IPR-1520, and Exhibit 1021 for 1521 and 1522.
`
`
`
`
`
` (Exhibit 1025 and 1021 were marked.)
`
`Q
`
`BY MR. DAMON: Can you please review the
`
`exhibit that I just handed you and state for the
`
`record what it is.
`
`A
`
`On one side it's a generic truth table for
`
`the binary or operator. And on the other side is the
`
`same table, but instead of being generic with
`
`variables A and B, it's titled with CAN B and CAN C.
`
`Q
`
`And to make things easier for the record
`
`for the court reporter, I'm going to introduce each
`
`exhibit that's new utilizing the exhibit number for
`
`the corresponding proceedings. So you don't have to
`
`say both of them or try to keep track of that, I will
`
`ask you my questions using only one exhibit number.
`
`I just want to -- and you can do the same so it's
`
`easy for you to keep track. I'll say Exhibit 1025,
`
`but it will correspond to both proceedings. Okay?
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`Yes.
`
`So when A and B is present in a truth table
`
`or when A is present or when B is present, that
`
`answer is true; correct?
`
`MR. PAZUNIAK: Objection.
`
`THE WITNESS: So if we're dealing with the
`
`binary or operator, then if A is true or B is true,
`
`
` PARK AVENUE DEPOSITION SERVICE (800) 447-3376 13
`740 NORTH GAREY - POMONA, CA 91767
`
`Page 13 of 134
`
`
`
` 1
`
` 2
`
` 3
`
` 4
`
` 5
`
` 6
`
` 7
`
` 8
`
` 9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`which also includes A and B are both true, then the
`
`output is true.
`
`Q
`
`BY MR. DAMON: And the only time an "or"
`
`truth table the answer is false is when neither A or
`
`B is present; correct?
`
`A
`
`When both A and B are false, then the
`
`output of an "or" operation would be false.
`
`Q
`
`And if we replace A with CAN B and B with
`
`CAN C, then the results of the truth or table is
`
`correct? Those are just variable names; right?
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`Yes.
`
`And so the flip side of 1025 that I handed
`
`you is a accurate representation of the question I
`
`just asked you; correct?
`
`A
`
`So this is changing A to CAN B and changing
`
`B to CAN C and then providing the or operation for
`
`that.
`
`Q
`
`You can put that to the side. We don't
`
`need that.
`
`Did you use the same standard to construe
`
`the terms in these four IPR declarations that you
`
`used in construing the terms in your IPR-676 and
`
`IPR-677 declarations?
`
`MR. PAZUNIAK: Objection.
`
`THE WITNESS: I don't recall.
`
`
` PARK AVENUE DEPOSITION SERVICE (800) 447-3376 14
`740 NORTH GAREY - POMONA, CA 91767
`
`Page 14 of 134
`
`
`
` 1
`
` 2
`
` 3
`
` 4
`
` 5
`
` 6
`
` 7
`
` 8
`
` 9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`Q
`
`BY MR. DAMON: You don't recall if you used
`
`the same standard to construe the terms?
`
`A
`
`In preparing for today's deposition, I
`
`reviewed the declaration for these four IPRs.
`
`Q
`
`And these four IPRs relate to the same
`
`patents as the previous declarations that you filed;
`
`correct?
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`Yes.
`
`So it's your testimony today that you're
`
`not sure whether or not -- or you don't recall,
`
`excuse me, whether or not the standard you used to
`
`construe the same terms in the previous declaration
`
`is the same standard you used to construe terms in
`
`these four IPR declarations?
`
`A
`
`Again, I don't recall because in preparing
`
`for today's deposition, I reviewed the declarations
`
`that were submitted on these IPRs.
`
`Q
`
`In construing the term "sharing" in your
`
`declarations for the four IPRs at issue today, you
`
`considered the Microsoft Press Computer Dictionary;
`
`correct?
`
`A
`
`I believe that was one of the references
`
`that I considered.
`
`Q
`
`So it's reasonable that a person of
`
`ordinary skill in the art -- excuse me -- sometimes I
`
`
` PARK AVENUE DEPOSITION SERVICE (800) 447-3376 15
`740 NORTH GAREY - POMONA, CA 91767
`
`Page 15 of 134
`
`
`
` 1
`
` 2
`
` 3
`
` 4
`
` 5
`
` 6
`
` 7
`
` 8
`
` 9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`say will "consult" the Microsoft dictionary for
`
`understanding of technical terms?
`
`MR. PAZUNIAK: Objection.
`
`THE WITNESS: I don't recall -- I'm sorry.
`
`Not "I don't recall." I don't know the answer to
`
`that because I used it not as a person of ordinary
`
`skill in the art, but rather as an expert in
`
`preparing the declaration.
`
`Q
`
`BY MR. DAMON: And an expert would have
`
`more knowledge or less knowledge than a person of
`
`ordinary skill in the art?
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`More knowledge.
`
`And so if a expert would consult the
`
`dictionary with more knowledge, wouldn't it be
`
`reasonable that a person of ordinary skill in the art
`
`would consult the dictionary to understand terms?
`
`A
`
`No, I think you're missing something there.
`
`I'm not saying they wouldn't. It's possible they
`
`would. But an expert would have more knowledge or
`
`more resources at their disposal than a person of
`
`ordinary skill.
`
`Q
`
`So a person of ordinary skill who has less
`
`knowledge would not look to gain more knowledge to
`
`understand something by referencing a dictionary?
`
`A
`
`Perhaps they would.
`
`
` PARK AVENUE DEPOSITION SERVICE (800) 447-3376 16
`740 NORTH GAREY - POMONA, CA 91767
`
`Page 16 of 134
`
`
`
` 1
`
` 2
`
` 3
`
` 4
`
` 5
`
` 6
`
` 7
`
` 8
`
` 9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`Q
`
`Do you agree that the construction of
`
`"sharing" in the context of the '705 and '843 patent
`
`is more closely related to the Microsoft Computer
`
`Dictionary definition of "to make files, directories,
`
`or folders accessible to other users over a network?"
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`Can you repeat that?
`
`Can you read back the question, please.
`
`(Record read.)
`
`MR. PAZUNIAK: Objection.
`
`THE WITNESS: I don't feel like that's a
`
`complete question. It's more closely related to that
`
`than what?
`
`Q
`
`BY MR. DAMON: Than the definition that you
`
`used in the Webster dictionary.
`
`MR. PAZUNIAK: Objection.
`
`THE WITNESS: I used the definition that I
`
`thought was relevant for the patents.
`
`Q
`
`BY MR. DAMON: But you also cited to the
`
`Microsoft Computer Dictionary, did you not?
`
`Yes.
`
`So you believed it to be relevant, did you
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`not?
`
`A
`
`I did believe it to be relevant, but I
`
`don't believe that was the question that you just
`
`asked.
`
`
` PARK AVENUE DEPOSITION SERVICE (800) 447-3376 17
`740 NORTH GAREY - POMONA, CA 91767
`
`Page 17 of 134
`
`
`
` 1
`
` 2
`
` 3
`
` 4
`
` 5
`
` 6
`
` 7
`
` 8
`
` 9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`Q
`
`Well, my question was -- okay. I'll
`
`rephrase my question, then.
`
`Do you agree that the construction of
`
`"sharing" in the context of the '705 and the '843
`
`patent, the Microsoft Computer Dictionary is more
`
`relevant to those patents with the definition of "to
`
`make files, directories, or folders accessible to
`
`other users over a network"?
`
`A
`
`I have the same question from before. Is
`
`more relevant than what?
`
`Q
`
`In comparison to the definition used for
`
`"sharing" with the generic dictionary.
`
`A
`
`I used the definition that I thought was
`
`most applicable to the patent.
`
`Q
`
`Is multiplexing a form of sharing?
`
`MR. PAZUNIAK: Objection.
`
`THE WITNESS: I think that's a vague
`
`question. Multiplexing is -- there's different
`
`definitions that we could use for multiplexing.
`
`Q
`
`BY MR. DAMON: What are those definitions
`
`that we could use for multiplexing?
`
`A
`
`I don't know if I could enumerate all of
`
`the possible definitions of multiplexing.
`
`Q
`
`That's understandable if you can't
`
`enumerate all of them, but what are some?
`
`
` PARK AVENUE DEPOSITION SERVICE (800) 447-3376 18
`740 NORTH GAREY - POMONA, CA 91767
`
`Page 18 of 134
`
`
`
` 1
`
` 2
`
` 3
`
` 4
`
` 5
`
` 6
`
` 7
`
` 8
`
` 9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`A
`
`Some multiplexing would allow multiple
`
`signals on a wire to only have one of them
`
`transmitted on the output of the wire.
`
`Q
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`head.
`
`Any other definitions?
`
`Nothing comes to mind off the top of my
`
`You said some multiplexing would allow
`
`multiple signals on a wire to only have one of them
`
`transmitted on the output of the wire. Is the
`
`converse true or the inverse true? Could you have
`
`one signal come in and multiple go out?
`
`A
`
`I'm not sure if that's a definition of
`
`multiplexing.
`
`Q
`
`I didn't ask if that was the definition. I
`
`was just asking whether or not the inverse is true,
`
`that you could have a signal come in with multiple
`
`signals coming out.
`
`A
`
`So completely unrelated to multiplexing in
`
`your line of questioning, we could have one signal
`
`coming in on a line and then it going to multiple
`
`other lines.
`
`Q
`
`So I believe you said that one definition
`
`of multiplexing is having multiple signals come in
`
`and then one signal go out. And I'm just asking
`
`whether or not you had one signal come in and
`
`
` PARK AVENUE DEPOSITION SERVICE (800) 447-3376 19
`740 NORTH GAREY - POMONA, CA 91767
`
`Page 19 of 134
`
`
`
` 1
`
` 2
`
` 3
`
` 4
`
` 5
`
` 6
`
` 7
`
` 8
`
` 9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`multiple signals go out.
`
`A
`
`I just answered that question. So you're
`
`relating it to multiplexing, but I don't believe
`
`that's a definition of multiplexing.
`
`Q
`
`Doesn't the patent describe multiplexing as
`
`a form of sharing information?
`
`MR. PAZUNIAK: Objection.
`
`THE WITNESS: I don't recall specifically.
`
`I don't have the patent in front of me yet.
`
`Q
`
`BY MR. DAMON: If you had the patent, would
`
`that help you recall?
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`I don't know.
`
`Let's try. I'm handing you what has
`
`previously been marked as BMW Exhibit 1001 in all
`
`four proceedings, IPR-1519, IPR-1520, IPR-1521, and
`
`IPR-1522. And can you please take a look at what I
`
`just handed to you and identify it for the record.
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`Yeah. Looks like the '705 patent.
`
`And it has been marked BMW Exhibit 1001, as
`
`I stated on the record; correct?
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`Yes.
`
`And so my question was: Doesn't the patent
`
`describe multiplexing as a form of sharing
`
`information?
`
`And I would direct you to -- and you
`
`
` PARK AVENUE DEPOSITION SERVICE (800) 447-3376 20
`740 NORTH GAREY - POMONA, CA 91767
`
`Page 20 of 134
`
`
`
` 1
`
` 2
`
` 3
`
` 4
`
` 5
`
` 6
`
` 7
`
` 8
`
` 9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`certainly can look -- column 3 around line 51 through
`
`56.
`
`Q
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`MR. PAZUNIAK: 51 through 56?
`
`BY MR. DAMON: That's correct.
`
`(Reviewing document.)
`
`Are you ready to answer my question after
`
`reviewing the patent? I'm happy to repeat it.
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`Repeat it.
`
`My question was: Doesn't the patent
`
`describe multiplexing as a form of sharing
`
`information?
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`No, I don't believe that it does.
`
`Can you read lines 51 through 56 of column
`
`3 of the '705 patent into the record, please. You
`
`can begin at ECU 102.
`
`A
`
`I think I should go back to the beginning
`
`of that paragraph, but I will read those lines as
`
`well. So starting on line 46, "Then the ECU 102
`
`processes the input variables and generates a set of
`
`output variables that are either shared with other
`
`ECUs (102) as described above, or which are output to
`
`local actuators (109), which are connected via
`
`discrete signal lines (113), or to networked
`
`actuators, which are connected through a multiplexing
`
`bus (112). ECUs (102) typically share information
`
`
` PARK AVENUE DEPOSITION SERVICE (800) 447-3376 21
`740 NORTH GAREY - POMONA, CA 91767
`
`Page 21 of 134
`
`
`
` 1
`
` 2
`
` 3
`
` 4
`
` 5
`
` 6
`
` 7
`
` 8
`
` 9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`with devices that are connected on the same physical
`
`multiplexing system. This method of information
`
`sharing is called horizontal information sharing in a
`
`hierarchical system. Gateways (101, 103, 104) link
`
`multiple physical multiplexing systems together. In
`
`the context of the present description, such
`
`information may include data, a signal, and/or
`
`anything else capable of being stored and/or shared."
`
`Q
`
`And so it's your opinion that after reading
`
`the full paragraph in Column 3, beginning around
`
`lines 46, that the patent does not describe sharing
`
`information via multiplexing?
`
`A
`
`I feel like that's a different question
`
`than you asked earlier.
`
`Q
`
`Well, you can answer either question. I
`
`will repeat the first question and/or I will go back.
`
`The first question was: Does the patent
`
`describe multiplexing as a form of sharing
`
`information?
`
`MR. PAZUNIAK: Objection. Go ahead.
`
`THE WITNESS: So I still say "no" to that
`
`question.
`
`Q
`
`BY MR. DAMON: You still say "no," even
`
`though it says, "ECUs (102) typically share
`
`information with devices that are connected on the
`
`
` PARK AVENUE DEPOSITION SERVICE (800) 447-3376 22
`740 NORTH GAREY - POMONA, CA 91767
`
`Page 22 of 134
`
`
`
` 1
`
` 2
`
` 3
`
` 4
`
` 5
`
` 6
`
` 7
`
` 8
`
` 9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`same physical multiplexing system. This method of
`
`information sharing is called horizontal information
`
`sharing in a hierarchical system." That was column
`
`43 to 56.
`
`You disagree that the patent --
`
`MR. PAZUNIAK: Objection.
`
`Q
`
`BY MR. DAMON: Let me finish my question.
`
`I'm sorry.
`
`You disagree that the patent describes
`
`physical multiplexing as a form of sharing? Excuse
`
`me.
`
`statement.
`
`Q
`
`A
`
`MR. PAZUNIAK: Objection.
`
`THE WITNESS: I still disagree with that
`
`BY MR. DAMON: Why do you disagree?
`
`Multiplexing is a way that we can transmit
`
`data to other devices. I don't feel like the way
`
`that you're wording that question that multiplexing
`
`is a form of sharing is an accurate definition.
`
`Q
`
`So if you transmit data to someone else,
`
`you didn't share the data of someone else?
`
`MR. PAZUNIAK: Objection.
`
`THE WITNESS: Again, I feel like that's a
`
`different question than what you asked earlier.
`
`Q
`
`BY MR. DAMON: Well, you can answer the
`
`
` PARK AVENUE DEPOSITION SERVICE (800) 447-3376 23
`740 NORTH GAREY - POMONA, CA 91767
`
`Page 23 of 134
`
`
`
` 1
`
` 2
`
` 3
`
` 4
`
` 5
`
` 6
`
` 7
`
` 8
`
` 9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`question that I just asked. So the question I just
`
`asked, in case you need me to read it back, so if you
`
`transmit data -- which is the word you used for
`
`multiplexing in your answer, transmitted it to
`
`someone else, did you not share the data with someone
`
`else?
`
`A
`
`So I would say if you transmit data from
`
`one device to another device, that the data has been
`
`shared with the second device.
`
`Q
`
`And can you do that on a multiplexing bus
`
`or system?
`
`that.
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`Yes, you can use multiplexing for doing
`
`So then isn't multiplexing a form of
`
`sharing; correct?
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`No, I still disagree with that statement.
`
`I'm trying to understand where the
`
`disagreement is. I'm really not trying to trick you.
`
`I'm asking whether or not the patent describes
`
`multiplexing as a form of sharing.
`
`MR. PAZUNIAK: Objection.
`
`THE WITNESS: Was there a question?
`
`Q
`
`BY MR. DAMON: I still don't think I got an
`
`answer to why you disagree that the patent describes
`
`multiplexing as a form of sharing.
`
`
` PARK AVENUE DEPOSITION SERVICE (800) 447-3376 24
`740 NORTH GAREY - POMONA, CA 91767
`
`Page 24 of 134
`
`
`
` 1
`
` 2
`
` 3
`
` 4
`
` 5
`
` 6
`
` 7
`
` 8
`
` 9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`A
`
`I don't think that multiplexing is a form
`
`of sharing. I think that it could be used to
`
`facilitate sharing.
`
` Q
`
`I think we're tripping up over words. So
`
`you can use multiplexing to share information?
`
`MR. PAZUNIAK: Objection.
`
`THE WITNESS: Yes, I agree with that.
`
`(Exhibit 1026 and 1022 were marked.)
`
`Q
`
`BY MR. DAMON: I'm going to hand you an
`
`exhibit which we're going to mark as Exhibit 1026 and
`
`in IPR-1519 and IPR-1520, and it will be mark as 1022
`
`in IPR-1521 and IPR-1522. Please look over the back
`
`of the page I just handed to you and state for the
`
`record what it is.
`
`A
`
`It looks like an excerpt from the Microsoft
`
`Press Computer Dictionary, Third Edition.
`
`Q
`
`And this is the same dictionary that you
`
`cited to in your declaration for the term "sharing";
`
`correct?
`
`that.
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`That was one of the references I had for
`
`And can you turn to the third page and take
`
`a look at the term "gateway," please.
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`Okay.
`
`Can you read the definition of "gateway,"
`
`
` PARK AVENUE DEPOSITION SERVICE (800) 447-3376 25
`740 NORTH GAREY - POMONA, CA 91767
`
`Page 25 of 134
`
`
`
` 1
`
` 2
`
` 3
`
` 4
`
` 5
`
` 6
`
` 7
`
` 8
`
` 9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`please.
`
`A
`
`Sure. It says, "A device that connects
`
`networks using different communications protocols so
`
`that information can be passed from one to the other.
`
`A gateway both transfers information and converts it
`
`to a form compatible with the protocols used by the
`
`receiving network."
`
`Q
`
`And you do not have any reason to dispute
`
`this definition in the dictionary, do you?
`
`A
`
`I don't dispute the definition given in the
`
`dictionary, but I feel like there's a lot of
`
`functionality that's provided there that obviously is
`
`not explained in the definition.
`
`Q
`
`Okay. But just simple yes or no, you don't
`
`have a reason to dispute the definition in the
`
`dictionary?
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`I just gave you my answer to that question.
`
`And a person of ordinary skill in the art
`
`would know the definition of a gateway?
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`Perhaps.
`
`So in your declaration for each of the four
`
`IPRs, IPR-1519 through 1522, you provide a definition
`
`of a person of ordinary skill in the art.
`
`Do you remember that?
`
`A
`
`Yes.
`
`
` PARK AVENUE DEPOSITION SERVICE (800) 447-3376 26
`740 NORTH GAREY - POMONA, CA 91767
`
`Page 26 of 134
`
`
`
` 1
`
` 2
`
` 3
`
` 4
`
` 5
`
` 6
`
` 7
`
` 8
`
` 9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`Q
`
`And it was your opinion that a person of
`
`ordinary skill in the art would have at least the
`
`qualification of or equivalent to either a master's
`
`degree in electrical engineering, computer science or
`
`computer engineering with course work or research in
`
`embedded networking technologies or an undergraduate
`
`degree in electrical engineering, computer science or
`
`computer engineering with at least two years of
`
`relevant work experience in the industry.
`
`Do you remember that?
`
`Yeah, I believe that's correct.
`
`So under your definition of a person of
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`ordinary skill in the art, do you agree that they
`
`would know the definition of "gateway"?
`
`A
`
`So I believe that they would be familiar
`
`with the term "gateway." I don't want to represent
`
`that they would define it exactly the same way as
`
`it's defined in the Microsoft Press Dictionary.
`
`Q
`
`And it would have been reasonable to
`
`conclude that they would consult such a dictionary if
`
`they did not know the definition of "gateway"?
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`Perhaps.
`
`And, similarly, you do not have any reason
`
`to dispute the definition of "sharing" in the same
`
`dictionary because you assigned it; right?
`
`
` PARK AVENUE DEPOSITION SERVICE (800) 447-3376 27
`740 NORTH GAREY - POMONA, CA 91767
`
`Page 27 of 134
`
`
`
` 1
`
` 2
`
` 3
`
` 4
`
` 5
`
` 6
`
` 7
`
` 8
`
` 9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`A
`
`I don't see the definition of sharing in
`
`here that you provided to me. I did reference it
`
`when I
Accessing this document will incur an additional charge of $.
After purchase, you can access this document again without charge.
Accept $ Charge
Still Working On It
This document is taking longer than usual to download. This can happen if we need to contact the court directly to obtain the document and their servers are running slowly.
Give it another minute or two to complete, and then try the refresh button.
A few More Minutes ... Still Working
It can take up to 5 minutes for us to download a document if the court servers are running slowly.
Thank you for your continued patience.
This document could not be displayed.
We could not find this document within its docket. Please go back to the docket page and check the link. If that does not work, go back to the docket and refresh it to pull the newest information.
Your account does not support viewing this document.
You need a Paid Account to view this document. Click here to change your account type.
Your account does not support viewing this document.
Set your membership
status to view this document.
With a Docket Alarm membership, you'll
get a whole lot more, including:
- Up-to-date information for this case.
- Email alerts whenever there is an update.
- Full text search for other cases.
- Get email alerts whenever a new case matches your search.
One Moment Please
The filing “” is large (MB) and is being downloaded.
Please refresh this page in a few minutes to see if the filing has been downloaded. The filing will also be emailed to you when the download completes.
Your document is on its way!
If you do not receive the document in five minutes, contact support at support@docketalarm.com.
Sealed Document
We are unable to display this document, it may be under a court ordered seal.
If you have proper credentials to access the file, you may proceed directly to the court's system using your government issued username and password.
Access Government Site
