UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`
` ___________________
`
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`
`
` BMW OF NORTH AMERICA, LLC,
`
` Petitioners,
`
` vs.
`
` STRAGENT, LLC,
`
` Patent Owner.
` ________________
`
`
`
` Case IPR2017-01519 CASE IPR2017-01520
` U.S. Patent 8,566,843 U.S. Patent 8,566,843
`
` Case IPR2017-01521 Case IPR2017-01521
` U.S. Patent 8,209,705 U.S. Patent 8,209,705
`
` DEPOSITION OF JEFFREY A. MILLER, Ph.D.
`
`Thursday, June 21, 2018
` 740 North Garey Avenue
`Pomona, California 91767
`
` PARK AVENUE DEPOSITION SERVICE
`REPORTED BY: 740 NORTH GAREY AVENUE
`Serena Wong POMONA, CA 91767
`CSR #10250, RPR, CCRR #200 (800) 447-3376
`
`
`
`Page 1 of 134
`
`BMW EXHIBIT 1027
`BMW v. STRAGENT
`IPR2017-01521
`
`
`
` ___________________
`
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`
`
` BMW OF NORTH AMERICA, LLC,
`
` Petitioners,
`
` vs.
`
` STRAGENT, LLC,
`
` Patent Owner.
` ________________
`
`
`
` Case IPR2017-01519 CASE IPR2017-01520
` U.S. Patent 8,566,843 U.S. Patent 8,566,843
`
` Case IPR2017-01521 Case IPR2017-01521
` U.S. Patent 8,209,705 U.S. Patent 8,209,705
`
` DEPOSITION OF JEFFREY A. MILLER, Ph.D.
`
`Thursday, June 21, 2018
` 740 North Garey Avenue
`Pomona, California 91767
`
` PARK AVENUE DEPOSITION SERVICE
`REPORTED BY: 740 NORTH GAREY AVENUE
`Serena Wong POMONA, CA 91767
`CSR #10250, RPR, CCRR #200 (800) 447-3376
`
`
`
`Page 1 of 134
`
`BMW EXHIBIT 1027
`BMW v. STRAGENT
`IPR2017-01521
`
`
`
`APEARANCES:
`
`
`For the Petitioners:
`
`FINNEGAN, HENDERSON, FARABOW, GARRETT &
` DUNNER, LLP
`BY: SEAN D. DAMON, ESQ.
` LIONEL M. LAVENUE, ESQ.
`901 New York Avenue, NW
`Washington, DC 20001
`202.408.4000
` sean.damon@finnegan.com
`
`For the Patent Owner and Dr. Miller:
`
`O'KELLY & ERNST, LLC
`BY: GEORGE PAZUNIAK, ESQ.
`901 North Market Street
`Suite 1000
`Wilmington, Delaware 19801
`302.778.4000
`gpazuniak@oeblegal.com
`
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` INDEX
`
`WITNESS: Jeffrey A. Miller, Ph.D.
`
`EXAMINATION
`
` PAGE
`
`Mr. Damon 4, 129
`
`Mr. Pazuniak 125
`
`
` INDEX TO EXHIBITS
`
`EXHIBITS FOR
`
`IPR IPR
`1519 1521
`1520 1522
`
` MARKED
`
`1025 1021 Truth Table 13
`
`1026 1022 Microsoft Computer Dictionary 25
` Third Edition
`
`1027 1023 Declaration of Jeffrey A. Miller 51
` In Case IPR2017-00676, Patent
` 8,209,705
`
`1028 1024 Declaration of Jeffrey A. Miller 51
` In Case IPR2017-00677, Patent
` 8,566,843
`
`1029 1025 Application Note, Extended Frame 123
` Format - A New Option of the CAN
` Protocol
`
`
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` THURSDAY, JUNE 21, 2018, 9:02 A.M.
`
` POMONA, CALIFORNIA
`
`JEFFREY MILLER,
`
`was called as a witness, and having been first
`
`duly sworn, was examined and testified as
`
`follows:
`
`BY MR. DAMON:
`
`EXAMINATION
`
`Q
`
`Dr. Miller, can you please state your full
`
`name for the record?
`
`Yes. Jeffrey Miller.
`
`Can you state your home address for the
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`record?
`
`A
`
`1594 Deer Crossing Drive, Diamond Bar,
`
`California, 91765.
`
`Q
`
`And because you've been deposed before,
`
`you're familiar with the deposition process.
`
`However, I just want to go over a few rules to make
`
`sure you understand your role and mine today. So do
`
`you understand that you're under oath and to tell the
`
`truth today under the penalty of perjury?
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`Yes.
`
`And do you understand that your testimony
`
`
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`today is just like if you were before the Patent
`
`Trial and Appeal Board?
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`Yes.
`
`And so I know you were deposed, but let's
`
`just go over a few rules so everyone is on the same
`
`page. The court reporter is preparing a transcript
`
`of today's testimony. So to create a clear
`
`transcript, one of the rules is you let me finish my
`
`questions before responding. And in turn, I will let
`
`you finish your answers before asking the next
`
`question.
`
`Is that okay?
`
`Yes.
`
`And it's also important that you give
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`verbal responses to my questions rather than gestures
`
`such as a head nod or "uh-huh" because they don't
`
`show up on the transcript.
`
`Is that okay?
`
`Yes.
`
`And I will try to give you a break every
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`hour. I can't promise that. We may go over a little
`
`over an hour. For whatever reason if you need a
`
`break, please let me know. I ask if we have a
`
`pending question, that you please answer the question
`
`before we take that break.
`
`
` PARK AVENUE DEPOSITION SERVICE (800) 447-3376 5
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`Is that okay?
`
`Yes.
`
`And I may ask you a question that you may
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`not understand. If that happens, please let me know.
`
`I will try to see if I can clarify it to the best of
`
`my ability. However, you understand that if you
`
`answer the question, it's assumed that you understood
`
`the question.
`
`Is that okay?
`
`Yes.
`
`And as you saw in previous depositions,
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`your attorney may object on the record. Unless he
`
`specifically instructs you not to answer, you're
`
`still required to answer the question.
`
`Do you understand that?
`
`Yes.
`
`Is there any reason today that you cannot
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`provide full, true, and accurate testimony?
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`No.
`
`So you're not sick or anything?
`
`No.
`
`No medication?
`
`No.
`
`And just to go through a little bit of
`
`background, you were deposed on your declarations you
`
`
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`provided in IPR2017-00676 and -00677 against BMW;
`
`correct?
`
`A
`
`I don't recall the exact numbers, but I was
`
`deposed by BMW in the past.
`
`Q
`
`I will represent those are the two IPR
`
`numbers in the previous case. It's okay you don't
`
`remember the exact numbers. The purpose of asking
`
`that is partly because throughout today's deposition,
`
`I may refer to the IPR2017-00676 -- so we don't have
`
`to say the full name every time, I'm most likely
`
`going to refer to it as IPR-676. You understand if I
`
`say "IPR-676," I'm referring to IPR2017-00676.
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`Yes.
`
`And the same thing is true for
`
`IPR2017-00677. I'll refer to that as IPR-677. You
`
`understand that refers to the full name?
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`Yes.
`
`And you may not remember this. And I can
`
`represent to you that it's true if you do not
`
`remember this, but I'll ask. In the IPR-676
`
`declaration, your opinion relates to U.S. patent
`
`number 8,209,705.
`
`Does that ring a bell?
`
`That seems familiar.
`
`So, yes, I will represent to you 676 does
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`
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`relate to the U.S. patent number 8,209,705. Again,
`
`to create a shorthand so we don't have to say the
`
`full number, I'll refer to 8,209,705 patent as the
`
`'705 patent.
`
`Do you understand that correlates to the
`
`full name?
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`Yes.
`
`Same is true in your IPR-677 declaration.
`
`You provided opinions as it relates to U.S. patent
`
`number 8,566,843.
`
`Does that sound about right or ring a bell?
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`Yes.
`
`I'm going to refer to U.S. patent number
`
`8,566,843 as the '843 patent.
`
`Is that okay?
`
`Yes.
`
`And at the time you gave your deposition
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`testimony to BMW in the previous matter, you agreed
`
`and understood that you were under oath in that
`
`matter and that you were required to testify
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`honestly; correct?
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`Yes.
`
`And you indicated in that matter that there
`
`was nothing that would impact your ability to answer
`
`truthfully.
`
`
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`Do you remember that?
`
`Yes.
`
`So I'm going to hand you a set of four
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`exhibits. The first one has been previously marked
`
`in the case. It is paper No. 23 in IPR2017-01519.
`
`So no need to mark it because it's already been
`
`filed.
`
`George, would you like a copy?
`
`MR. PAZUNIAK: Not unless you're going to
`
`be asking questions about it.
`
`Q
`
`BY MR. DAMON: Have you seen this document
`
`before?
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`A
`
`is?
`
`I believe so.
`
`Can you please state for the record what it
`
`It's titled Petitioner's Notice of
`
`Cross-Examination Of Dr. Jeffrey A Miller.
`
`Q
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`And that is for the IPR-1519; correct?
`
`Yes.
`
`You can put that aside. That's all we need
`
`that for.
`
`I'm handing witness paper No. 23 in
`
`IPR2017-01520. And the same question, have you seen
`
`this document before?
`
`A
`
`I believe so.
`
`
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`Q
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`A
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`Can you state for the record what it is?
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`It's titled Petitioner's Notice of
`
`Cross-Examination Of Dr. Jeffrey A Miller.
`
`Q
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`A
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`Q
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`And this is for IPR2017-01520; correct?
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`Yes.
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`You can put that to the side.
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`I'm going to hand you paper No. 22, which
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`has previously been filed in IPR2017-01521. Please
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`look it over. And then once you have it, state what
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`it is for the record.
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`A
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`It's entitled Petitioner's Notice of
`
`Cross-Examination of Dr. Jeffrey A Miller.
`
`Q
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`A little repetitive. This is for a case
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`IPR2017-01521; correct?
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`Yes.
`
`Last one, I'm handing you what has been
`
`previously marked paper No. 23 in IPR2017-01522.
`
`Same exercise. Can you please look it over and let
`
`me know if you've seen it before.
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`A
`
`I believe so.
`
`Can you state for the record what it is.
`
`It's titled Petitioner's Notice of
`
`Cross-Examination of Dr. Jeffrey A Miller.
`
`Q
`
`And this one is for case IPR2017-01522;
`
`correct?
`
`
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`A
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`Q
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`Yes.
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`So earlier we created a shorthand for IPR
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`and patents. I would like to do the same thing, if
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`that's okay with you. I'll refer to IPR2017-01519 as
`
`IPR-1519.
`
`Do you understand that's referring to the
`
`full IPR?
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`Yes.
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`And the same thing is true if I use
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`A
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`Q
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`IPR-1520?
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`A
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`Q
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`A
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`Q
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`A
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`Q
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`Yes.
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`IPR-1521?
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`Yes.
`
`And IPR-1522?
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`Yes.
`
`IPR-1519 and IPR-1520 are challenges to the
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`'843 patent; correct?
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`I believe so.
`
`And you can look at the deposition notice,
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`and it should be right on the case caption which
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`patents number refers to which IPR.
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`A
`
`Q
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`Yes, that's what it says.
`
`And so for IPR-1521 and IPR-1522, they
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`relate to challenges to the '705 patent; correct?
`
`A
`
`Yes.
`
`
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`Q
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`Dr. Miller, did you prepare for today's
`
`deposition?
`
`A
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`Q
`
`Yes.
`
`How did you prepare for today's
`
`deposition?
`
`A
`
`I reviewed the declarations that were filed
`
`for these IPRs. I reviewed the related prior art for
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`it. And I spoke with the patent owner's attorney.
`
`Q
`
`And let me back up one question. I'm
`
`sorry.
`
`You understand that you're here today to
`
`testify on all four IPR proceedings; correct?
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`Yes.
`
`About how much time did you spend preparing
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`for today's deposition, ballpark?
`
`A
`
`Q
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`A few hours perhaps.
`
`In preparing for deposition, did you speak
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`to anyone other than counsel sitting next to you at
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`the table?
`
`A
`
`Q
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`operators?
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`No.
`
`Are you familiar with truth tables by the
`
`Yes.
`
`And I'm going to hand you an exhibit. And
`
`if we could mark this Exhibit 1025 for IPR-1519 and
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`
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`IPR-1520, and Exhibit 1021 for 1521 and 1522.
`
`
`
`
`
` (Exhibit 1025 and 1021 were marked.)
`
`Q
`
`BY MR. DAMON: Can you please review the
`
`exhibit that I just handed you and state for the
`
`record what it is.
`
`A
`
`On one side it's a generic truth table for
`
`the binary or operator. And on the other side is the
`
`same table, but instead of being generic with
`
`variables A and B, it's titled with CAN B and CAN C.
`
`Q
`
`And to make things easier for the record
`
`for the court reporter, I'm going to introduce each
`
`exhibit that's new utilizing the exhibit number for
`
`the corresponding proceedings. So you don't have to
`
`say both of them or try to keep track of that, I will
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`ask you my questions using only one exhibit number.
`
`I just want to -- and you can do the same so it's
`
`easy for you to keep track. I'll say Exhibit 1025,
`
`but it will correspond to both proceedings. Okay?
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`Yes.
`
`So when A and B is present in a truth table
`
`or when A is present or when B is present, that
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`answer is true; correct?
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`MR. PAZUNIAK: Objection.
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`THE WITNESS: So if we're dealing with the
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`binary or operator, then if A is true or B is true,
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`which also includes A and B are both true, then the
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`output is true.
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`Q
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`BY MR. DAMON: And the only time an "or"
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`truth table the answer is false is when neither A or
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`B is present; correct?
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`A
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`When both A and B are false, then the
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`output of an "or" operation would be false.
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`Q
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`And if we replace A with CAN B and B with
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`CAN C, then the results of the truth or table is
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`correct? Those are just variable names; right?
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`A
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`Q
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`Yes.
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`And so the flip side of 1025 that I handed
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`you is a accurate representation of the question I
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`just asked you; correct?
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`A
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`So this is changing A to CAN B and changing
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`B to CAN C and then providing the or operation for
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`that.
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`Q
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`You can put that to the side. We don't
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`need that.
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`Did you use the same standard to construe
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`the terms in these four IPR declarations that you
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`used in construing the terms in your IPR-676 and
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`IPR-677 declarations?
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`MR. PAZUNIAK: Objection.
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`THE WITNESS: I don't recall.
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`the same standard to construe the terms?
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`A
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`In preparing for today's deposition, I
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`reviewed the declaration for these four IPRs.
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`Q
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`And these four IPRs relate to the same
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`patents as the previous declarations that you filed;
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`correct?
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`A
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`Q
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`Yes.
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`So it's your testimony today that you're
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`not sure whether or not -- or you don't recall,
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`excuse me, whether or not the standard you used to
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`construe the same terms in the previous declaration
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`is the same standard you used to construe terms in
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`these four IPR declarations?
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`A
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`Again, I don't recall because in preparing
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`for today's deposition, I reviewed the declarations
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`that were submitted on these IPRs.
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`Q
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`In construing the term "sharing" in your
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`declarations for the four IPRs at issue today, you
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`considered the Microsoft Press Computer Dictionary;
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`correct?
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`A
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`I believe that was one of the references
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`that I considered.
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`Q
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`So it's reasonable that a person of
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`ordinary skill in the art -- excuse me -- sometimes I
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`say will "consult" the Microsoft dictionary for
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`understanding of technical terms?
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`MR. PAZUNIAK: Objection.
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`THE WITNESS: I don't recall -- I'm sorry.
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`Not "I don't recall." I don't know the answer to
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`that because I used it not as a person of ordinary
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`skill in the art, but rather as an expert in
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`preparing the declaration.
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`Q
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`BY MR. DAMON: And an expert would have
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`more knowledge or less knowledge than a person of
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`ordinary skill in the art?
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`A
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`Q
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`More knowledge.
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`And so if a expert would consult the
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`dictionary with more knowledge, wouldn't it be
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`reasonable that a person of ordinary skill in the art
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`would consult the dictionary to understand terms?
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`A
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`No, I think you're missing something there.
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`I'm not saying they wouldn't. It's possible they
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`would. But an expert would have more knowledge or
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`more resources at their disposal than a person of
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`ordinary skill.
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`Q
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`So a person of ordinary skill who has less
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`knowledge would not look to gain more knowledge to
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`understand something by referencing a dictionary?
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`A
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`Perhaps they would.
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`Q
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`Do you agree that the construction of
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`"sharing" in the context of the '705 and '843 patent
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`is more closely related to the Microsoft Computer
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`Dictionary definition of "to make files, directories,
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`or folders accessible to other users over a network?"
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`A
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`Q
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`Can you repeat that?
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`Can you read back the question, please.
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`(Record read.)
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`MR. PAZUNIAK: Objection.
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`THE WITNESS: I don't feel like that's a
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`complete question. It's more closely related to that
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`than what?
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`Q
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`BY MR. DAMON: Than the definition that you
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`used in the Webster dictionary.
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`MR. PAZUNIAK: Objection.
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`THE WITNESS: I used the definition that I
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`thought was relevant for the patents.
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`Q
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`BY MR. DAMON: But you also cited to the
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`Microsoft Computer Dictionary, did you not?
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`Yes.
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`So you believed it to be relevant, did you
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`A
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`Q
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`not?
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`A
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`I did believe it to be relevant, but I
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`don't believe that was the question that you just
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`asked.
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`Well, my question was -- okay. I'll
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`rephrase my question, then.
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`Do you agree that the construction of
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`"sharing" in the context of the '705 and the '843
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`patent, the Microsoft Computer Dictionary is more
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`relevant to those patents with the definition of "to
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`make files, directories, or folders accessible to
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`other users over a network"?
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`A
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`I have the same question from before. Is
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`more relevant than what?
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`Q
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`In comparison to the definition used for
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`"sharing" with the generic dictionary.
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`A
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`I used the definition that I thought was
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`most applicable to the patent.
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`Q
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`Is multiplexing a form of sharing?
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`MR. PAZUNIAK: Objection.
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`THE WITNESS: I think that's a vague
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`question. Multiplexing is -- there's different
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`definitions that we could use for multiplexing.
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`Q
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`BY MR. DAMON: What are those definitions
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`that we could use for multiplexing?
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`A
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`I don't know if I could enumerate all of
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`the possible definitions of multiplexing.
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`Q
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`That's understandable if you can't
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`enumerate all of them, but what are some?
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`Some multiplexing would allow multiple
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`signals on a wire to only have one of them
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`transmitted on the output of the wire.
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`Q
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`A
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`Q
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`head.
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`Any other definitions?
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`Nothing comes to mind off the top of my
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`You said some multiplexing would allow
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`multiple signals on a wire to only have one of them
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`transmitted on the output of the wire. Is the
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`converse true or the inverse true? Could you have
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`one signal come in and multiple go out?
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`A
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`I'm not sure if that's a definition of
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`multiplexing.
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`Q
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`I didn't ask if that was the definition. I
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`was just asking whether or not the inverse is true,
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`that you could have a signal come in with multiple
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`signals coming out.
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`A
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`So completely unrelated to multiplexing in
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`your line of questioning, we could have one signal
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`coming in on a line and then it going to multiple
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`other lines.
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`Q
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`So I believe you said that one definition
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`of multiplexing is having multiple signals come in
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`and then one signal go out. And I'm just asking
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`whether or not you had one signal come in and
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`multiple signals go out.
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`A
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`I just answered that question. So you're
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`relating it to multiplexing, but I don't believe
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`that's a definition of multiplexing.
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`Q
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`Doesn't the patent describe multiplexing as
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`a form of sharing information?
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`MR. PAZUNIAK: Objection.
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`THE WITNESS: I don't recall specifically.
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`I don't have the patent in front of me yet.
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`Q
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`BY MR. DAMON: If you had the patent, would
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`that help you recall?
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`A
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`Q
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`I don't know.
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`Let's try. I'm handing you what has
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`previously been marked as BMW Exhibit 1001 in all
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`four proceedings, IPR-1519, IPR-1520, IPR-1521, and
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`IPR-1522. And can you please take a look at what I
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`just handed to you and identify it for the record.
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`A
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`Q
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`Yeah. Looks like the '705 patent.
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`And it has been marked BMW Exhibit 1001, as
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`I stated on the record; correct?
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`A
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`Q
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`Yes.
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`And so my question was: Doesn't the patent
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`describe multiplexing as a form of sharing
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`information?
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`And I would direct you to -- and you
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`certainly can look -- column 3 around line 51 through
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`56.
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`Q
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`A
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`Q
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`MR. PAZUNIAK: 51 through 56?
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`BY MR. DAMON: That's correct.
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`(Reviewing document.)
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`Are you ready to answer my question after
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`reviewing the patent? I'm happy to repeat it.
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`A
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`Q
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`Repeat it.
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`My question was: Doesn't the patent
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`describe multiplexing as a form of sharing
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`information?
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`A
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`Q
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`No, I don't believe that it does.
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`Can you read lines 51 through 56 of column
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`3 of the '705 patent into the record, please. You
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`can begin at ECU 102.
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`A
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`I think I should go back to the beginning
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`of that paragraph, but I will read those lines as
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`well. So starting on line 46, "Then the ECU 102
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`processes the input variables and generates a set of
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`output variables that are either shared with other
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`ECUs (102) as described above, or which are output to
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`local actuators (109), which are connected via
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`discrete signal lines (113), or to networked
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`actuators, which are connected through a multiplexing
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`bus (112). ECUs (102) typically share information
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`with devices that are connected on the same physical
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`multiplexing system. This method of information
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`sharing is called horizontal information sharing in a
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`hierarchical system. Gateways (101, 103, 104) link
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`multiple physical multiplexing systems together. In
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`the context of the present description, such
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`information may include data, a signal, and/or
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`anything else capable of being stored and/or shared."
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`Q
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`And so it's your opinion that after reading
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`the full paragraph in Column 3, beginning around
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`lines 46, that the patent does not describe sharing
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`information via multiplexing?
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`A
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`I feel like that's a different question
`
`than you asked earlier.
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`Q
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`Well, you can answer either question. I
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`will repeat the first question and/or I will go back.
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`The first question was: Does the patent
`
`describe multiplexing as a form of sharing
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`information?
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`MR. PAZUNIAK: Objection. Go ahead.
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`THE WITNESS: So I still say "no" to that
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`question.
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`Q
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`BY MR. DAMON: You still say "no," even
`
`though it says, "ECUs (102) typically share
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`information with devices that are connected on the
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`same physical multiplexing system. This method of
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`information sharing is called horizontal information
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`sharing in a hierarchical system." That was column
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`43 to 56.
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`You disagree that the patent --
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`MR. PAZUNIAK: Objection.
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`Q
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`BY MR. DAMON: Let me finish my question.
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`I'm sorry.
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`You disagree that the patent describes
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`physical multiplexing as a form of sharing? Excuse
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`me.
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`statement.
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`Q
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`A
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`MR. PAZUNIAK: Objection.
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`THE WITNESS: I still disagree with that
`
`BY MR. DAMON: Why do you disagree?
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`Multiplexing is a way that we can transmit
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`data to other devices. I don't feel like the way
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`that you're wording that question that multiplexing
`
`is a form of sharing is an accurate definition.
`
`Q
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`So if you transmit data to someone else,
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`you didn't share the data of someone else?
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`MR. PAZUNIAK: Objection.
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`THE WITNESS: Again, I feel like that's a
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`different question than what you asked earlier.
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`Q
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`BY MR. DAMON: Well, you can answer the
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`question that I just asked. So the question I just
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`asked, in case you need me to read it back, so if you
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`transmit data -- which is the word you used for
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`multiplexing in your answer, transmitted it to
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`someone else, did you not share the data with someone
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`else?
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`A
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`So I would say if you transmit data from
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`one device to another device, that the data has been
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`shared with the second device.
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`Q
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`And can you do that on a multiplexing bus
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`or system?
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`that.
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`A
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`Q
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`Yes, you can use multiplexing for doing
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`So then isn't multiplexing a form of
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`sharing; correct?
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`A
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`Q
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`No, I still disagree with that statement.
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`I'm trying to understand where the
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`disagreement is. I'm really not trying to trick you.
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`I'm asking whether or not the patent describes
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`multiplexing as a form of sharing.
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`MR. PAZUNIAK: Objection.
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`THE WITNESS: Was there a question?
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`Q
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`BY MR. DAMON: I still don't think I got an
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`answer to why you disagree that the patent describes
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`multiplexing as a form of sharing.
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`I don't think that multiplexing is a form
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`of sharing. I think that it could be used to
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`facilitate sharing.
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` Q
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`I think we're tripping up over words. So
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`you can use multiplexing to share information?
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`MR. PAZUNIAK: Objection.
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`THE WITNESS: Yes, I agree with that.
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`(Exhibit 1026 and 1022 were marked.)
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`Q
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`BY MR. DAMON: I'm going to hand you an
`
`exhibit which we're going to mark as Exhibit 1026 and
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`in IPR-1519 and IPR-1520, and it will be mark as 1022
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`in IPR-1521 and IPR-1522. Please look over the back
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`of the page I just handed to you and state for the
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`record what it is.
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`A
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`It looks like an excerpt from the Microsoft
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`Press Computer Dictionary, Third Edition.
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`Q
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`And this is the same dictionary that you
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`cited to in your declaration for the term "sharing";
`
`correct?
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`that.
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`A
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`Q
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`That was one of the references I had for
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`And can you turn to the third page and take
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`a look at the term "gateway," please.
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`A
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`Q
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`Okay.
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`Can you read the definition of "gateway,"
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`please.
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`A
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`Sure. It says, "A device that connects
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`networks using different communications protocols so
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`that information can be passed from one to the other.
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`A gateway both transfers information and converts it
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`to a form compatible with the protocols used by the
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`receiving network."
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`Q
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`And you do not have any reason to dispute
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`this definition in the dictionary, do you?
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`A
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`I don't dispute the definition given in the
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`dictionary, but I feel like there's a lot of
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`functionality that's provided there that obviously is
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`not explained in the definition.
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`Q
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`Okay. But just simple yes or no, you don't
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`have a reason to dispute the definition in the
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`dictionary?
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`A
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`Q
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`I just gave you my answer to that question.
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`And a person of ordinary skill in the art
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`would know the definition of a gateway?
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`Perhaps.
`
`So in your declaration for each of the four
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`IPRs, IPR-1519 through 1522, you provide a definition
`
`of a person of ordinary skill in the art.
`
`Do you remember that?
`
`A
`
`Yes.
`
`
` PARK AVENUE DEPOSITION SERVICE (800) 447-3376 26
`740 NORTH GAREY - POMONA, CA 91767
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`Page 26 of 134
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`Q
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`And it was your opinion that a person of
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`ordinary skill in the art would have at least the
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`qualification of or equivalent to either a master's
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`degree in electrical engineering, computer science or
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`computer engineering with course work or research in
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`embedded networking technologies or an undergraduate
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`degree in electrical engineering, computer science or
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`computer engineering with at least two years of
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`relevant work experience in the industry.
`
`Do you remember that?
`
`Yeah, I believe that's correct.
`
`So under your definition of a person of
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`ordinary skill in the art, do you agree that they
`
`would know the definition of "gateway"?
`
`A
`
`So I believe that they would be familiar
`
`with the term "gateway." I don't want to represent
`
`that they would define it exactly the same way as
`
`it's defined in the Microsoft Press Dictionary.
`
`Q
`
`And it would have been reasonable to
`
`conclude that they would consult such a dictionary if
`
`they did not know the definition of "gateway"?
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`Perhaps.
`
`And, similarly, you do not have any reason
`
`to dispute the definition of "sharing" in the same
`
`dictionary because you assigned it; right?
`
`
` PARK AVENUE DEPOSITION SERVICE (800) 447-3376 27
`740 NORTH GAREY - POMONA, CA 91767
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`Page 27 of 134
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`A
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`I don't see the definition of sharing in
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`here that you provided to me. I did reference it
`
`when I
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