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`Transcript of Robert Leonard
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`Date: February 16, 2018
`Case: Celltrion, Inc. -v- Genentech, Inc. (PTAB)
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`Planet Depos
`Phone: 888.433.3767
`Email:: transcripts@planetdepos.com
`www.planetdepos.com
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`WORLDWIDE COURT REPORTING | INTERPRETATION | TRIAL SERVICES
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`Celltrion v. Genentech
`IPR2017-01373
`Genentech Exhibit 2040
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`Transcript of Robert Leonard
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` A P P E A R A N C E S
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`ON BEHALF OF PETITIONER CELLTRION:
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` CYNTHIA LAMBERT HARDMAN, ESQUIRE
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` chardman@goodwinlaw.com
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` GOODWIN PROCTOR LLP
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` The New York Times Building
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` 620 Eighth Avenue
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` New York, New York 10018
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` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
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` BEFORE FOR THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
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`CELLTRION, INC., :
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` Petitioner, :
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` v. : Case IPR 2017-01373
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`GENENTECH, INC., : Case IPR 2017-01374
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` Patent Owner. : U.S. Patent 6,407,213
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` Deposition of ROBERT LEONARD
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` Friday, February 16, 2018
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` 9:03 a.m.
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` Job No.: 178016
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` Pages: 1 - 160
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` Reported By: Nancy Mahoney, CCR/RPR
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`A P P E A R A N C E S C O N T I N U E D:
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`ON BEHALF OF PATENT OWNER GENENTECH:
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` ROBERT J. GUNTHER, ESQUIRE
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` robert.gunther@wilmerhale.com
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` WILMER CUTLER PICKERING HALE & DORR LLP
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` 7 World Trade Center
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` 250 Greenwich Street
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` New York, New York 10007
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` ANDREW H. LE, ESQUIRE
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` andrew.le@wilmerhale.com
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` WILMER CUTLER PICKERING HALE & DORR LLP
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` Deposition of ROBERT LEONARD, held at the
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` Goodwin Procter LLP
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` Pursuant to agreement, before Nancy Mahoney,
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`Notary Public in and for the state of New York.
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` Palo Alto, California 93404
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` ALSO PRESENT:
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` Charlie Bowman, Videographer
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`PLANET DEPOS
`888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
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`Transcript of Robert Leonard
`Conducted on February 16, 2018
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`P R E V I O U S L Y M A R K E D E X H I B I T S
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` (Attached to transcript)
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`ROBERT LEONARD PAGE
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` Exhibit 2020 Article entitled 75
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` Humanization of an Anti-p185HER2
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` antibody for human cancer therapy
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` Exhibit 1034 Article entitled A 103
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` humanized antibody that binds to the
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` C O N T E N T S
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`EXAMINATION OF ROBERT LEONARD PAGE
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`By Mr. Gunther 9
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` E X H I B I T S
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` ROBERT LEONARD PAGE
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` Exhibit 2055 Article entitled 94
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` Antibody-Based Therapy, Humanized
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` interleukin 2 receptor
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` Antibodies
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` Exhibit 1021 Article entitled p185HER2 146
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` Exhibit 2059 Article entitled 126
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` Monoclonal Antibody has
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` Monoclonal Antibodies in the Detection
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` Antiproliferative Effects In Vitro and
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` and Therapy of Micrometastatic
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` Sensitizes Human Breast Tumor Cells to
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` Epithelial Cancers
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` Tumor Necrosis Factor
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` Exhibit 2060 Article entitled 135
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` Exhibit 1048 Article entitled 151
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` Monoclonal Antibody Therapy of Human
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` Monoclonal Antibodies in Cancer
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` Therapy from Current Opinion in
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` Cancer: Taking the HER2 Protooncogene
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` Immunology 1993
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` to the Clinic
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`P R E V I O U S L Y M A R K E D E X H I B I T S
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` (Attached to transcript)
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`ROBERT LEONARD PAGE
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` Exhibit 1004A Curriculum Vitae of 10
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` Robert Leonard
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` Exhibit 1004 Expert Declaration of 14
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` Robert Charles Fredrick Leonard, M.D.
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` In Support of Petition of Inter Partes
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` Review of Patent No. 6,407,213, Case
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`12
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` IPR 2017-01373
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` P R O C E E D I N G S
` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Here begins disk number
`one of the videotaped deposition of Robert Leonard
`in the matter of Celltrion, Inc. v. Genentech,
`Inc., in the United States Patent and Trademark
`Office, before the Patent Trial and Appeal Board,
`Case No. IPR 2017-01373 and 01374.
` Today's date is February 16, 2018; the
`time is approximately 9:03 a.m. The videographer
`today is Charlie Bowman representing Planet Depos.
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`This video deposition is taking place in New York,
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`New York.
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` Would counsel please voice-identify
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`yourselves for the record.
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` MR. GUNTHER: For the Patent Owner
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`Genentech, Bob Gunther and Andrew Le from the
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`WilmerHale firm.
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` MS. HARDMAN: For Petitioner Celltrion,
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`Cynthia Hardman, Goodwin Procter.
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` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: The court reporter
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`today is Nancy Mahoney representing Planet Depos.
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`Would the court reporter please swear in the
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` Exhibit 1004 Expert Declaration of 17
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` Robert Charles Fredrick Leonard, M.D.
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` In Support of Petition of Inter Partes
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` Review of Patent No. 6,407,213, Case
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` IPR 2017-01374
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` Exhibit 1001 U.S. Patent No. 6,407,213 73
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`Transcript of Robert Leonard
`Conducted on February 16, 2018
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`versus Roche, 2013, 2014.
` A Um-hum.
` Q Do you see that? That's what you were
`referring to just now when I asked you --
` A Yeah.
` Q Okay. And, sir, in those -- in either of
`those proceedings, do you recall which patents
`were involved?
` A I'm afraid I can't remember the patent
`number.
` Q Okay. Did one of the patents involve the
`amount of acidic variance in the antibody. Do you
`recall that?
` A I don't remember, I'm sorry.
` Q Okay. Do you recall whether one of the
`patents might have involved the dosing for
`trastuzumab?
` A Yeah, the second patent was to do with the
`subcutaneous weekly versus three-weekly, et
`cetera.
` Q Okay, fair enough.
` A Yeah, that was '116, I think.
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`witness.
` ROBERT LEONARD,
`after having been first duly sworn or affirmed to
`testify to the truth, was examined and
`testified as follows:
` EXAMINATION BY COUNSEL FOR THE PATENT OWNER
`GENENTECH BY ROBERT GUNTHER:
` Q Good morning, Dr. Leonard.
` A Good morning, sir.
` Q Dr. Leonard, have you ever had your
`deposition taken before?
` A Deposition, not in this setting, but we
`had a court case relating to a different patent to
`do with Herceptin in the UK about four years ago.
` Q Right. And you mentioned in your CV --
`let me give your CV just so that we both have it
`in front of us.
` MS. HARDMAN: Would you mind if I just get
`a bottle of water for Dr. Leonard?
` MR. GUNTHER: Not at all.
` THE WITNESS: Thanks. Appreciate that.
`Thank you.
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`BY MR. GUNTHER:
` Q And, sir, just to make sure that I've kind
` Q And if you need anything like that, just
`of covered the waterfront with respect to this,
`let us know.
`can you recall any other litigations or
` (Exhibit 1004A Curriculum Vitae of Robert
`proceedings, whether in the U.S. or outside the
`Leonard previously marked, is attached to the
`U.S., that involved trastuzumab that you were
`transcript.)
`involved in other than those two?
` Q Dr. Leonard, I'm going to put in front of
` A I had one what I would call a desultory
`you what's been marked -- previously marked as
`call with someone in Hong Kong about maybe a year
`Celltrion Exhibit 1004A and just ask you to
`after that court case. It seemed to go nowhere
`confirm for me that this is your CV, your
`and they never followed it up, so I don't know
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`curriculum vitae as of November 2016.
`what happened to that.
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` A Yeah.
` Q Fair enough, okay.
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` Q And, sir, if you look at the second
` A And he's doing some background on me and
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`page -- it actually says page 1 of 42, but it
`so drew a line under that.
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`looks like it's the second page of the document.
` Q Sure, sure, sure. And, sir, in terms of
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`There is a heading at the top that says Current
`the two cases -- they were both in the UK?
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`Activity.
` A Yes.
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` Do you see that?
` Q Okay. And did you submit declarations in
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` A Yes.
`those cases?
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` Q And then a little bit further down you
` A Yes.
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`reference expert witness on trastuzumab in
` Q Did you testify at the trials?
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`clinical practice for Hospira in two court cases
` A Yes.
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` Q Okay. Now, is it fair to say that those
`matters did not involve the -- strike that.
` Is it fair to say that the -- those
`matters that you've testified about in terms of
`your work in the UK relating to trastuzumab, they
`did not relate to a counterpart of the '213
`patent. Is that correct?
` A I think that's right, yeah.
` Q Okay. So is this the first time, as far
`as you know, that you've given expert testimony
`relating to the subject matter of the '213 patent?
` A Yes, this is a much more technical
`discussion than the last one, yeah.
` Q Gotcha. And, sir, just coming back, in
`those proceedings do you recall being asked
`questions like -- in a setting like this prior to
`trial?
` A No.
` Q Okay. And is it fair to say that this is
`the first time you've done something like that?
` A That's correct.
` Q Okay. Have you worked on any litigations
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`IPR?
` A It is. Can I just draw your attention to
`a mistake?
` Q Absolutely. I'm going to get to that in
`just a second.
` A Oh, okay.
` Q Before we do that, and I'm going to give
`you a chance to talk about anything you want to
`correct or change. If you take a look at page 39,
`I just want to confirm that that's your signature.
` A Yes.
` Q Okay. Now you wanted to draw my attention
`to a -- an error?
` A Yes. It's either page 19 or 21. It's
`item 34, Paragraph 34.
` Q Let me just get there with you; hang on
`for one second.
` A Yeah.
` Q Okay, I'm with you.
` A Okay. Under 34 you get to the fourth
`line, "Unfortunately, this chimeric approach was
`available for OKT3." Should have been not
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`available.
`relating to trastuzumab in the United States?
` A No.
` Q Not available. Okay. Do you want to
`actually make that change on the document just so
` Q Okay. Or any other type of proceeding in
`that we have that.
`the United States?
` A Yeah.
` A No.
` Q Could you put your initials just over --
` Q Other than this, of course?
` A Yeah.
` A That's correct.
` Q -- next to that.
` Q Okay. So let me -- what I'd like to do is
` A Yeah.
`put the two declarations that you've submitted in
` Q Thank you. Right. I actually think that
`this matter in front of you. So the first one
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`makes quite good sense in the context of the
`that I'll put in front of you is your declaration
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`sentence. Thank you for pointing that out.
`in the 01373 IPR which is marked in that
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` A I'm sorry I missed it four times.
`proceeding as Celltrion Exhibit 1004.
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` Q Yes, well ...
` (Exhibit 1004 Expert Declaration of Robert
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` Let me ask you this: Any other exchanges
`Charles Fredrick Leonard, M.D. in Support of
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`or corrections or additions that you'd want to
`Petition of Inter Partes Review of Patent No.
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`make to Exhibit 1004 in the 373 IPR at this time?
`6,407,213, Case IPR 2017-01373 previously marked,
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` A I don't think so.
`is attached to the transcript.)
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` A Thank you.
` Q Okay. So let me hand you what has been
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`previously marked in the 01374 IPR as Celltrion
` Q And if you can take a look at that, sir,
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`Exhibit 1004, and I'm going to ask you if you can
`and confirm for me that that is, in fact, your
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`confirm for me that that is your declaration in
`declaration relating to the '213 patent in the 373
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`Transcript of Robert Leonard
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`the 374 IPR.
` (Exhibit 1004 Expert Declaration of Robert
`Charles Fredrick Leonard, M.D. In Support of
`Petition of Inter Partes Review of Patent No.
`6,407,213, Case IPR 2017-01374 previously marked,
`is attached to the transcript.)
` A Yeah.
` Q Sir, does that have the same issue with
`respect to Paragraph 34 that you pointed out with
`respect to the declaration in the 373?
` A If you write it. It's still the same
`issue.
` Q Okay. All right. So can you also make
`the same correction and initial that, just so we
`have that.
` A (Witness complies.)
` Yeah.
` Q Great. And with respect to your
`declaration 1004 in the 374 IPR, any other
`corrections, additions or modifications that you'd
`like to make at this time?
` A No.
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` A Yeah, I do actually, yeah.
` Q Okay. Well, let me ask you this: When
`did you first substantively begin to work on this
`matter, if you know what I mean by that?
` A I guess it felt -- it was all based on
`phone call conversations which lasted for variable
`amounts of time, typically an hour at a time, and
`I guess it was into the early part of last year,
`2017, that the engagement really developed --
` Q Okay.
` A -- to some degree.
` Q Now, sir, when you were engaged, one of
`the things that -- and you make this very clear in
`your declaration, that parts of your declaration
`are parts that you've adopted from Dr. Ball's
`declaration which was provided in an IPR -- a
`prior IPR by Mylan, correct?
` MS. HARDMAN: Objection to form.
` A What I would say to that is that I read
`carefully Dr. Ball's declaration --
` Q Right.
` A -- and he's an expert on immunology
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` Q Okay. And just happy to keep them both in
`front of you.
` A Okay.
` Q I'll probably ask you more questions about
`the one relating to the 373 IPR. So if I ask --
`if I'm referring to your declaration, can we just
`sort of agree that unless I tell you otherwise,
`I'm going to refer to the 373. Okay?
` A Yeah, yeah.
` Q Great.
` Sir, can you tell me when you were
`retained in this matter?
` A My first contact was in December 2016.
` Q Okay. And were you retained at that
`point?
` A I'm not sure what the formal date of
`retention actually was, but the difficulty was we
`were actually on holiday and I kept having phone
`calls back and forth. I was on a cruise boat --
` Q Oh, is that right?
` A -- in the Caribbean.
` Q You sort of remember that pretty well?
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`technology, and I found that I was agreeing in
`terms of the clinical applications with what he
`said.
` Q Okay.
` A Yeah.
` Q Okay. And so here's my question. Were
`you asked to formulate any opinions in this matter
`prior to being given Dr. Ball's declaration?
` A I don't recall being asked that question.
` Q Okay. So in terms of your substantive
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`a copy of Dr. Ball's declaration?
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` A Early on.
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` MS. HARDMAN: Objection.
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` A I was given a copy, yeah.
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` Q Okay. And then were you also given copies
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`of the references that he cites in connection
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`with his declaration --
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` A I eventually obtained those, yeah.
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` Q Okay. Did you obtain those --
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` (Clarification for Court Reporter.)
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` A -- and he wrote that very well, widely
`publicized review of applying the antibody in
`pathological specimens in the 1987 paper which I
`think was very influential.
` Q Right. And is it fair to say that you
`were aware of Dr. Slamon's 1987 paper at or about
`the time that it was published?
` A Yeah, thereabouts or soon after, yes.
` Q Okay. Do you know Dr. Slamon?
` A I've met him several times, yeah.
` Q Okay. Have you ever collaborated with him
`on any work?
` A No.
` Q Do you have respect for his abilities as a
`clinical oncologist?
` A Yeah, in respect of his work in this area,
`yeah, he's been a very effective clinical
`scientist.
` Q In the paper that -- the '87 paper that
`you're referring to from Dr. Slamon, did they talk
`about treating patients with Herceptin?
` A This was entirely a pathological review,
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` Q Let me just say one thing because this is
`your first time --
` A Yes.
` Q -- on -- doing this, and it's not my first
`time, but I'm -- but, let me tell you something.
`I'm particularly bad at this, okay, in terms of
`speaking over people. So I promise you that if
`you don't do it, I'll try not to do it.
` Okay?
` A All right.
` MS. HARDMAN: So that means just let him
`ask --
` THE WITNESS: Yes.
` MS. HARDMAN: -- answer the question and
`just wait until he's done before you speak.
` Q I totally understand in a normal
`conversation it's kind of weird to just sit there
`silently, right?
` A It's not me at all.
` Q I understand that. I mean, I get it.
` A Okay.
` Q And it's not me unfortunately, too. It's
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`one of my great faults.
` So at the outset of your work, your
`substantive work on this matter, were you given
`anything else other than Dr. Ball's declaration?
` MS. HARDMAN: Objection to form.
` A I don't recall being given any backup
`information in the form of the papers that we
`eventually incorporated into my statement.
` Q Were you given any -- were you given a
`declaration that had been submitted by anyone
`else, other than Dr. Ball?
` A No.
` Q Do you recall being given any other
`papers, other than Dr. Ball's declaration,
`relating to an IPR proceeding?
` A I can only say honestly what I had as
`background knowledge on this was the work by
`Dennis Slamon --
` Q Okay.
` A -- because he's very much at the clinical
`end of all of this --
` Q Yes.
`
`and what it did, of course, which is in my
`deposition, is that it would show that the
`identification of the 185KD molecule was
`associated with -- put it in a crude way, bad
`behavior by breast cancer and was a more potent
`prognostic factor than many of the classical
`prognostic factors that we use day to day.
` Q Okay.
` A It was very powerful discussion --
`discovery.
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` Q As far as you know, was he -- was
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`Dr. Slamon one of the first that you were aware of
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`who had identified the p185 aspect?
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` A I thought he was very early on in the
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`field, yes.
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` Q Okay. So just coming back to your
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`substantive work with respect to this matter. You
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`were given Dr. Ball's declaration and you read
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`that, right?
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` A Yeah.
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` Q And then at some point you were given the
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`references that were cited in Dr. Ball's
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`Transcript of Robert Leonard
`Conducted on February 16, 2018
`25
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`7 (25 to 28)
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`27
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`specific area of focus. Is that fair?
` A Used to be, but that was many, many years
`ago.
` Q Okay. As of 1991, was that an area of
`focus for you?
` A No, I'd given up on liquid tumors. We had
`to leave that to the hematologists.
` Q Okay. And so is it fair to say that by
`1991 your focus was more on solid tumors?
` A Absolutely.
` Q Okay.
` A We did some work on lymphomas which
`carried on into the '90s and produced a few
`papers, but the writing was on the wall that the
`hematologists were taking over that area of work.
` Q I see. And, sir, did you at any point in
`your work on this matter attempt to talk to
`Dr. Ball?
` A No.
` Q Do you know how he went about searching
`for the references that are cited in his
`declaration?
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`declaration?
` MS. HARDMAN: Objection.
` A The references of course were in his text.
` Q Yes.
` A Yes. Did I chase the text references at
`the time? No, I didn't. I read his declaration
`and thought I'd wait for the text -- sorry -- for
`the reference articles to come through.
` Q Okay. And then somebody provided you --
` A Yes.
` Q -- with copies of the articles that are
`referenced in the text of Dr. Ball's declaration?
` A Yes.
` Q Okay. Did you go and do any searching of
`the literature yourself in connection with your
`work on this case?
` A I read back into Slamon's work and the
`work of his collaborators in his UCLA labs, but I
`didn't find anything that was specifically helpful
`in addressing the issues raised by Dr. Ball's
`paper. So I relied essentially on the references
`provided by that paper instead.
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` Q Okay. So you looked back at Dr. Slamon's
`work.
` A Yes.
` Q Is that fair to say?
` A Yes.
` Q Did you look back at anything else?
` A No, I didn't.
` Q Okay. And do you know Dr. Ball?
` A No.
` Q Had you ever heard of him before this
`case?
` A No, I hadn't. He's more a
`hematooncologist I think with immunology interest.
`It's not my area of medicine.
` Q Right, right. I just want to look -- I'm
`looking at your answer here for one second. You
`said he is more of a hematologist?
` A Yeah, he's -- he's seen that environment.
` Q So when you say that, he's more focused on
`cancers of the blood?
` A Yes.
` Q Okay. You would say that's not your
`
` A I do not.
` Q Now when it came time to prepare your
`declaration in this matter, what did you
`understand your assignment to be?
` A I understood my assignment was to
`understand the time points at which the common
`general knowledge was such that the antibody which
`had been discovered in the 1980s was going to
`become potentially a useful therapeutic molecule.
` Q Right, right, right. And did you
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`understand that part of your assignment was to
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`review Dr. Ball's declaration and make a
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`determination as to whether you agreed with parts
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`of it or --
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` A Yeah, I -- I didn't see that as being the
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`critical thing initially, but when I was given the
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`paper, I realized he was covering much of the
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`stuff that I'd be looking at anyway, so it was a
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`very useful platform.
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` Q Sure, sure. And Dr. Ball's -- at some
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`point were you given a Word version of Dr. Ball's
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`declaration?
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`Transcript of Robert Leonard
`Conducted on February 16, 2018
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`what the -- if the pending question is whose idea
`is it, but if that's the question, I'm going to
`direct him not to answer because I think it
`potentially invades work product.
` MR. GUNTHER: I'm not sure I asked the
`question yet.
` MS. HARDMAN: Okay.
` MR. GUNTHER: So why don't we have the
`witness find Paragraph 11 and then I'll ask a
`question, and then you can make a determination
`about whether to object.
` MS. HARDMAN: Great.
` A Okay, I've got it there.
`BY MR. GUNTHER:
` Q Okay, great.
` And so in Paragraph 11 you say, "In
`addition to the materials set forth in
`Exhibit 1004B, I have also reviewed the expert
`declaration of Edward Ball, M.D., which I
`understand was filed as Exhibit 1004 in IPR Case
`No. 2016-01693 and 01694. Because I agreed with
`many of the statements and opinions set forth
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` A No.
` Q Okay. How did you -- how did you go from
`Dr. Ball's declaration to your declaration?
` MS. HARDMAN: Objection to form.
` A Well, we'd already had the phone
`conversations about the -- my understanding of
`what was needed and what was to be discussed
`and -- forgive me because I may be making some
`mistakes. This goes back at least seven or eight
`months now --
` Q Yeah.
` A -- since we had these declarations.
` As I recall, we'd come to some
`discussions -- we, I mean me and the law firm --
` Q Yes.
` A -- had these conversations about my level
`of understanding of various aspects of the
`development of the therapeutic antibody. And so I
`had the background information from my own sources
`of information, but when I was given the Ball
`document, it sort of crystallized much of what we
`discussed in a very neat way.
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`therein, I have repeated those herein and revised
` Q Right.
` A I don't know if I should use the word
`only as necessary."
`shortcut, I probably shouldn't, but it is actually
` Do you see that?
` A Yeah.
`providing a neat shortcut to get the stuff onto
`paper --
` Q So here's my question: Was it your idea
`to proceed that way or was it someone else's idea?
` Q Right.
` A -- that I could agree with.
` MS. HARDMAN: I'm going to caution you
`here. Just answer the question he asks very
` Q Okay. Right. Fair enough.
`succinctly because if you elaborate, I'm afraid
` Whose idea was it for you to review
`that it could get into work product. So he asked
`Dr. Ball's declaration and -- you know, I think
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`whose idea was it and if you could just limit your
`you say in Paragraph maybe 11 of your declaration,
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`answer to that question.
`if you could turn to that, if I'm going to the
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` A I'd never seen the expert declaration of
`right paragraph.
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`Edward Ball until it was sent to me.
` A Early antibody therapy?
`14
` Q Yes. So is it fair to say that it wasn't
` Q Actually, if I'm on the right thing, if
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`your idea in order to -- that it was someone
`you look at -- if I'm doing this properly, which I
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`else's idea in terms of the procedure that you
`may not be doing, let me just get to the right
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`went through which was to review it and revise
`paragraph. I think there's a paragraph on page 3
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`as -- revise it as necessary, only as necessary?
`of your declaration. It's Paragraph 11.
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` Is that fair?
` MR. GUNTHER: Am I doing something wrong?
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` MS. HARDMAN: Objection to form.
` MS. HARDMAN: I'm just going to have a, I
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` A Yes.
`think an instruction not to answer. I'm not sure
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`Transcript of Robert Leonard
`Conducted on February 16, 2018
`33
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`9 (33 to 36)
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` Q Was that one of the lawyers?
` MS. HARDMAN: I'm going to direct you not
`to answer that because I think that invades work
`product.
` MR. GUNTHER: I don't think that the
`answer to that invades work product.
` MS. HARDMAN: You're asking if it was one
`of the lawyers, that's work product. So I direct
`you not to answer.
` MR. GUNTHER: All right. I think that's
`an improper instruction.
`BY MR. GUNTHER:
` Q Did you talk with anyone in connection
`with the work that you did in coming up with your
`declaration that was partly based on reading
`Dr. Ball's declaration? Did you communicate with
`anyone other than the lawyers?
` A I didn't speak to a physician or a
`scientist on the subject matter.
` Q So it was just you and the lawyers, right?
` A Yes.
` Q Do you remember which lawyers you were
`
` Q Right, right, right. But I guess -- and
`listen, I understand that. All I'm getting at is
`could you give me -- are you able to give me sort
`of the universe of people that you spoke to and
`dealt with at the Goodwin firm in connection with
`your work?
` A I think I've named them already. That
`would be Jenny, mainly in the beginning. I do not
`remember the name of the other -- there were other
`lawyers on the phone of these conversations.
` Q Sure.
` A They were on sort of a party line --
` Q Right.
` A -- but I do not remember their names, I'm
`afraid.
` Q Okay.
` So how did you go about physically
`constructing your declaration? You say you
`reviewed Dr. Ball's declaration in Paragraph 11.
` A Yeah.
` Q And because you agreed with many of the
`statements and opinions, you repeated those herein
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`dealing with?
`and have revised only as necessary, correct?
` A Well, my main contact no longer works for
` A That's right.
`the firm.
` Q So how did you actually do that? Did you
` Q Who was that?
`mark up a document? Did you --
` A A lady called Jenny Zhang.
` A I was sent documents which I then marked
` Q Okay. And after that, who was your main
`up which were then corrected and sent back and so
`contact?
`forth and so forth.
` A I don't recall that it was handed straight
` Q How did you mark those up? What was
`on to Linnea. I think it might have been Linnea
`the -- was it by computer word processing or did
`Cipriano.
`you mark them up by hand?
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` Q Okay, all right.
` A I think it would -- no, I'm not going to
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` A But I'm not sure. I'm sort of guessing
`answer the question because I don't remember.
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`that one. I think I may just strike that. I just
` Q You don't recall?
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`don't --
` A No, because I do both, and I just don't
`14
` Q You're not sure?
`remember specifics.
`15
` A No, I'm not sure.
` Q But in terms of the changes between your
`16
` Q What -- which other lawyers have you
`declarations and Dr. Ball's declarations, those
`17
`interacted with in connection with this case?
`are changes that you yourself made, right?
`18
` A None.
` A Yeah. They were sent to me as summaries
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` Q Okay. So other than --
`of telephone conversations and then corrected on
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` A I've seen my contacts being with the firm
`paper, paper version sent to me by email to look
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`at and approve.
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`Transcript of Robert Leonard
`Conducted on February 16, 2018
`37
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` Q Right. Okay. So you had -- you read
`Dr. Ball's declaration?
` A Yes. Yes.
` Q At the time that you were making the
`changes to Dr. Ball's declaration, had you
`reviewed the references yet at that point or was
`that after?
` A I think we got the whole thing put
`together first and then I read the references
`afterwards.
` Q Okay, fair enough. And so just to make
`sure I understand the procedure. The procedure
`was that you had conversations with the lawyers,
`correct?
` A Yes.
` Q The lawyers then sent you potential
`changes for you to review --
` A Yes.
` Q -- to Dr. Ball's declaration, and then you
`worked back and forth on the language, correct?
` A Yes.
` MS. HARDMAN: Objection.
`
`10 (37 to 40)
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` Q And I'm sorry, I don't mean to make this a
`memory test, but I do -- I'm just trying to get
`your recollection.
` A At the moment I can't remember, I'm sorry.
` Q Do you remember talking to that person?
` A No, I didn't.
` Q Did you see anything that that person put
`together in terms of written materials?
` A No, no.
` Q If I told you that the person's name of
`was Lutz Riechmann, would that help you?
` A Riechmann, actually.
` Q Riechmann. And I always pronounce it -- I
`was driving him crazy at his deposition because I
`couldn't say it properly.
` Do you know him?
` A No.
` Q Had you ever heard of him before getting
`involved in this case?
` A No.
` Q Okay. Prior to getting involved in this
`case,