Page 1
`
` M. Johnson
`UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
` ____________________________
` ZTE USA, INC.
` Petitioner
` v.
` SAINT LAWRENCE COMMUNICATIONS LLC
` Patent Owner
` _____________________________
` Case No. IPR2016-00704
` Patent No. 7,151,802
` _____________________________
`
` DEPOSITION OF DR. MICHAEL T. JOHNSON
` Washington, D.C.
` December 3, 2016
`
`Reported by: Mary Ann Payonk
`Job No. 116297
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4 5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`
`
` M. Johnson
`UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
` ____________________________
` ZTE USA, INC.
` Petitioner
` v.
` SAINT LAWRENCE COMMUNICATIONS LLC
` Patent Owner
` _____________________________
` Case No. IPR2016-00704
` Patent No. 7,151,802
` _____________________________
`
` DEPOSITION OF DR. MICHAEL T. JOHNSON
` Washington, D.C.
` December 3, 2016
`
`Reported by: Mary Ann Payonk
`Job No. 116297
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4 5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`
`
` M. Johnson
`
`Page 2
`
` December 3, 2016
` 9:08 a.m.
`
` Deposition of DR. MICHAEL T. JOHNSON
`held at the offices of Finnegan, Henderson,
`Farabow, Garrett & Dunner, LLP, Two Freedom
`Square, 11955 Freedom Drive, Reston, Virginia,
`pursuant to Notice before Mary Ann Payonk,
`Nationally Certified Realtime Reporter and
`Notary Public of the District of Columbia,
`Commonwealth of Virginia, and State of New
`York.
`
`1
`
`2 3 4 5
`
`6
`
`7 8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`
`
`Page 3
`
` M. Johnson
`APPEARANCES:
`ON BEHALF OF ZTE USA, INC.:
` LIONEL LAVENUE, ESQUIRE
` SEAN DAMON, ESQUIRE
` FINNEGAN, HENDERSON, FARABOW,
` GARRETT & DUNNER
` Two Freedom Square
` 11955 Freedom Drive
` Reston, VA 20190
`
`ON BEHALF OF SAINT LAWRENCE COMMUNICATIONS LLC:
` GREGORY GONSALVES, ESQUIRE
` GONSALVES LAW FIRM
` 2216 Beacon Lane
` Falls Church, VA 22043
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`
`
`Page 4
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` M. Johnson
` MR. GONSALVES: So just an
`administrative matter. I notice that
`Mr. Lavenue handed the witness a binder
`containing lots of documents so I'll
`object on the record to any documents
`that are in there that are not already
`of record in the case to preserve my
`right to move to exclude it later.
` MR. LAVENUE: For the record, I'll
`note that I did not hand the witness the
`binder. The witness walked into the
`room with the binder.
` And also, there's nothing in the
`binder that is not of record except for
`an updated CV.
` And if you don't want that -- it's
`actually not connected in the binder.
`It is separate from the binder and we
`will set that aside. So now the binder
`has everything of record.
` THE REPORTER: I'll swear the
`witness. We are on the record at 9:09.
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`
`
`Page 5
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` M. Johnson
`DR. MICHAEL T. JOHNSON,
` called as a witness, having been duly
` sworn, was examined and testified as
` follows:
` EXAMINATION
`BY MR. GONSALVES:
` Q. Dr. Johnson, can you please state
`your name and address for the record.
` A. Dr. Michael T. Johnson. My current
`address is in Lexington, Kentucky. I live at
`1269 Litchfield Lane in Lexington.
` Q. Do you understand that you are under
`oath to testify truthfully?
` A. Of course.
` Q. Is there anything that would prevent
`you from testifying truthfully today?
` A. No.
` Q. Are you taking any medication that
`would interfere with your ability to testify
`accurately?
` A. No.
` Q. Dr. Johnson, what do you understand
`your role to be in this matter?
` A. I'm acting as an expert witness, so I
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`
`
`Page 6
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` M. Johnson
`give my objective opinion as to the questions.
` Q. Can you answer my questions today
`objectively without advocating for either
`party?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Dr. Johnson, I assume that you have
`reviewed your declaration before coming to this
`deposition. Is that correct?
` A. Yes.
` Q. You may already have a copy of your
`declaration, but I made copies.
` A. I have a copy right here.
` MR. GONSALVES: You have a copy
` too, don't you?
` MR. LAVENUE: I'll take a copy,
` thank you.
` MR. GONSALVES: All right.
`BY MR. GONSALVES:
` Q. So is there anything in your
`declaration that you would like to clarify or
`correct?
` A. No.
` Q. Is your curriculum vitae attached as
`Appendix A to your declaration?
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`
`
`Page 7
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` M. Johnson
` A. Yes, it is.
` Q. Is it accurate as of today?
` A. No, it is not.
` Q. I notice that you brought in an
`updated CV; is that correct?
` A. Yes.
` Q. So could you identify the changes
`that you made, for the record?
` A. The primary change is my position,
`which you can see I'm now Professor and
`Department Chair at the University of Kentucky
`Department of Electronic Computer Engineering.
`And therefore, my work address and work phone
`and email and web pages have all changed.
` I think you can see there are a small
`number of other changes. I have three
`additional journal publications. It looks like
`there might be one or two more conference
`papers. I think those are the only substantial
`changes.
` Q. Dr. Johnson, how were you retained
`for this matter?
` A. Could you clarify the question?
` Q. At some point, you were retained to
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`
`
`Page 8
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` M. Johnson
`act as an expert witness in this case; is that
`correct?
` A. Yes.
` Q. So how did that come about?
` A. I don't actually recall who first
`contacted me, but one of the counsel -- might
`have been Sean -- originally contacted me and
`said they were interested in retaining my
`services on this case.
` Q. And do you know how long ago that
`was?
` A. Honestly, I couldn't say.
` Q. Have you provided services to the
`petitioner in this matter, ZTE, before?
` A. Not to the best of my recollection.
` Q. Have you communicated with anybody
`that's a ZTE employee?
` A. Do you mean in general?
` Q. Yes.
` A. Yes.
` Q. And was that in connection with this
`inter partes review or in connection with
`another matter?
` A. To the best of my recollection, all
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`
`
`Page 9
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` M. Johnson
`my interactions with counsel and Finnegan have
`been with regard to this matter.
` Q. My question was with respect to
`employees of ZTE and not, you know, counsel.
` Have you ever interacted or
`communicated with employees at ZTE?
` A. Not that I can remember. But I do
`work with many people in the speech industry.
`It's possible that I know someone who has
`worked for ZTE in the past and don't even
`recall.
` Q. Have you done work for ZTE outside of
`this inter partes review?
` A. I don't believe so, no.
` Q. Okay. What is your billing rate for
`this inter partes review?
` A. My current billing rate is $350 an
`hour.
` Q. And roughly how much have you charged
`for the time that you have spent working on
`this matter so far?
` A. I don't recall. I would have to
`check invoices.
` Q. Could you give me an approximation?
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`
`
`Page 10
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` M. Johnson
` A. Honestly, I just -- I can't recall.
`I'd need to check.
` Q. About how many times have you
`testified in depositions before this one?
` A. Only one time previously.
` Q. And was that one time in a patent
`case also?
` A. It was.
` Q. How long ago was that?
` A. It's quite a while ago. I don't
`recall exactly. I estimate 10 or 15 years.
` Q. And was that with this law firm,
`Finnegan, or a different law firm?
` A. Different firm.
` Q. Okay. And have you ever testified at
`trial?
` A. I have not.
` Q. So the case that you mentioned in
`which you were deposed, I guess that somehow
`terminated before it went to trial; is that
`correct?
` A. To the best of my understanding,
`that's correct.
` Q. About how many times have you served
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`
`
`Page 11
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` M. Johnson
`as an expert in a patent matter?
` A. Just those two cases, including this
`one.
` Q. So in the other case were you serving
`as an expert for the patent owner or were you
`serving as an expert for the defendant in the
`patent infringement case?
` A. In that case, I was serving as an
`expert for the defendant.
` Q. Have you ever served as an expert for
`a patent owner in any patent matter?
` A. I don't believe I have.
` Q. Approximately what percentage of your
`working time in 2016 has been spent as an
`expert witness?
` A. In which year did you say?
` Q. This year.
` A. 2016?
` Q. Yeah.
` A. I honestly couldn't say. It's a
`very -- relatively small part.
` Q. With respect to 2015, the same
`question. What was the percentage of your work
`time that you spent working as an expert
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`
`
`Page 12
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` M. Johnson
`witness?
` A. Also very small.
` Q. In the other case that you mentioned,
`do you know if your expert testimony in that
`case was challenged?
` A. I don't know if it was or not.
` Q. Do you know if the opposing counsel
`attempted to exclude your testimony as an
`expert?
` A. I don't know if they did or not.
` Q. Dr. Johnson, have you ever been
`involved in the prosecution of a patent
`application?
` A. I don't believe so. If I have, it
`would only have been in the preliminary pieces
`of discovery disclosure and those kind of
`standard processes in the context of a
`university.
` Q. Have you ever opined in a patent case
`that a claim in a patent is valid?
` A. Could you clarify? When you say
`"opine," could you explain what you mean by
`that?
` Q. Sure. Have you ever expressed an
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`
`
`Page 13
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` M. Johnson
`opinion in a patent case that a claim in a
`patent is valid?
` A. I can't recall because I don't recall
`the details of the previous case since they
`were so long ago.
` Q. Okay. There was just one previous
`case; is that correct?
` A. That's correct.
` Q. And in that case, you represented the
`defendant?
` A. That's correct.
` Q. And do you recall that you expressed
`an opinion that one or more claims of the
`patent at issue in that case was invalid?
` A. I do recall that I -- I had an
`opinion that at least one of the claims was
`invalid. I don't remember whether it was all
`of those claims.
` Q. Okay. And in that case, since there
`was only one other case, do you recall
`expressing an opinion that any of the claims in
`the patent at issue there in that case was
`valid?
` MR. LAVENUE: Objection, asked and
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`
`
`Page 14
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` M. Johnson
` answered. You can answer.
` A. I don't recall.
` Q. In preparing your declaration, which
`I believe you have set forth in front of you,
`what materials did you consider?
` A. You're referring to my declaration?
` Q. Correct.
` A. Referring directly to my declaration
`on page 2, paragraphs 8 and 9, you can see that
`I have identified what information was
`considered in that declaration, which includes
`general knowledge gained as a result of
`education and experience in the field; the '802
`patent; the prosecution history of the '802
`patent; and the prior art of record. And if
`you wish to refer to Appendix B, you can see a
`full list.
` Q. Anything else other than what you
`just identified?
` A. No.
` Q. Now, the patent at issue in this IPR
`is Patent Number 7,151,802; is that correct?
` A. Yeah, that's correct.
` Q. So if it's okay with you, I'll refer
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`
`
`Page 15
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` M. Johnson
`to this patent 7,151,802 as the '802 patent so
`that I will not have to say all seven numbers
`every time I ask a question about it. Is that
`all right?
` A. That'd be great.
` Q. Did you review the prosecution file
`history of the '802 patent before you gave your
`opinion in your declaration?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And what did you do to prepare for
`your deposition here today?
` A. If you'll take a look at the very
`first page of the binder here you can see a
`full description of all the documents that I've
`reviewed. That includes the Petition for
`Inter Partes Review; my own declaration in the
`case; the patent, '802; Exhibit 104 -- 1004,
`which is the Schnitzler reference;
`Exhibit 1006, which is the Paulus and
`Schnitzler reference; Exhibit 1017, which is
`Tasaki. Also the paper number 7, which is the
`institution decision. And then from those
`materials I prepared notes for today's
`deposition, which are in the front here.
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`
`
`Page 16
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` M. Johnson
` Q. Did you meet with any attorneys at
`the Finnegan firm to prepare for your
`deposition?
` A. Yes.
` Q. When did you meet with them?
` A. I don't recall dates and times.
` Q. Did you meet with them this morning?
` A. Very briefly this morning.
` Q. Did you meet with them yesterday?
` A. Yes.
` Q. How long did you meet with them? You
`didn't recall that you met with them yesterday.
` A. Say that again.
` Q. Initially I asked you when you met
`with your attorney, and you said that you
`didn't recall dates and times. And then I
`asked you if you met with them yesterday, and
`you said yes.
` So my question is: Initially, you
`didn't remember that you met with them
`yesterday?
` A. I certainly remembered that I met
`with them yesterday. In addition, there were
`some other times, and I don't remember the
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`
`
`Page 17
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` M. Johnson
`dates and times for all of those.
` Q. About how long did you meet with the
`attorneys at Finnegan yesterday?
` A. About all day, roughly one business
`day, seven, eight hours.
` Q. Which attorneys did you meet with?
` A. The attorneys present here.
` Q. Any others besides the two gentlemen
`that are here?
` A. No.
` Q. Okay. And yesterday was Friday. Did
`you also meet with the attorneys at Finnegan on
`Thursday?
` A. I believe I recall that we had a
`meeting Thursday morning by phone.
` Q. Thursday? I'm sorry?
` A. Thursday morning by phone.
` Q. By phone?
` A. By phone meeting.
` Q. I assume you traveled here to the
`Washington, D.C. area.
` A. Yes.
` Q. When did you arrive?
` A. I took an early flight yesterday
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`
`
`Page 18
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` M. Johnson
`morning, got here roughly 8 a.m.
` Q. Now, besides the meetings that you
`just mentioned, do you recall meeting with the
`attorneys at Finnegan either on the phone or in
`person to prepare for your deposition here
`today other than the ones that you just
`mentioned?
` A. There were a number of times we met
`on the phone. I don't recall exactly how many
`or how many times there were, but over the last
`few weeks we've talked on the phone a number of
`times.
` Q. Do you recall approximately how many
`times you've spoken?
` A. Perhaps half a dozen.
` MR. GONSALVES: Okay. Dr. Johnson,
` I'm handing you what has been previously
` marked as Exhibit 2005. I can tell you
` that Exhibit 2005 in its entirety
` consisted of close to 900 pages, most of
` which we're not going to refer to in
` this deposition.
` (Exhibit No. 2005, previously marked, was
` referenced and indexed.)
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`
`
`Page 19
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` M. Johnson
`BY MR. GONSALVES:
` Q. So I copied the first several pages,
`the table of contents and the copyright page as
`well as much of chapter 6.
` Do you recognize the document that
`I've just handed to you?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And what is, it in your own words?
` A. It's an older edition, the second
`edition of a well-known digital signal
`processing textbook entitled "Discrete-Time
`Signal Processing" by Oppenheim, Schafer and
`John Buck.
` Q. You mentioned that it's a well-known
`textbook. Can you elaborate on what you mean
`by that?
` A. Just roughly that a large number of
`speech process -- not speech processing
`courses -- signal processing courses, digital
`processing courses used this textbook as a
`textbook or a newer edition of this version, of
`this book.
` Q. You teach classes at a university; is
`that correct?
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`
`
`Page 20
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` M. Johnson
` A. Yes.
` Q. How long have you been teaching
`classes at university?
` A. More than 15 years.
` Q. And do you use this book,
`Exhibit 2005, in any of your classes?
` A. Yes. I've used the third edition of
`this book and perhaps the fourth edition also.
` Q. If it's okay with you, I will refer
`to Exhibit 2005 by the last name of the first
`author, Oppenheim, so I don't have to recite
`the title every time I ask you a question about
`it. Is that okay?
` A. That's great.
` Q. Can you please turn your attention to
`page 3346 of the document that I just handed to
`you.
` Do you see the sentence following
`equation 6.15B that reads "Theoretically, the
`order of implementation does not affect the
`overall system function"?
` A. Yes, I see it.
` Q. Do you also see the next sentence
`that ends with the phrase: "When a different
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`
`
`Page 21
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` M. Johnson
`equation is implemented with finite precision
`arithmetic there can be a significant
`difference between two systems that are
`theoretically equivalent"?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Do you have any reason to disagree
`with these portions of Oppenheim that I just
`read?
` A. I'm not sure I know exactly how
`you're referring to these in the context of
`this patent, but in a general sense, no.
` Q. Could you turn your attention to page
`357 of Oppenheim? Do you see the sentence
`toward the bottom of the page that reads:
`"Although these all have the same overall
`system function and corresponding input/output
`relation, when infinite precision arithmetic is
`used, their behavior with finite precision
`arithmetic can be quite different"?
` A. Yes, I see it.
` Q. Do you have any reason to disagree
`with this sentence in Oppenheim that I just
`read to you?
` A. So as I said about the previous
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`
`
`Page 22
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` M. Johnson
`reference you made, I'm not sure that I know
`how this refers specifically with respect to
`this patent or this case.
` And I haven't considered all these
`materials in totality so I can't really render
`a full judgment about these words. But at this
`time, I don't have reason to believe one way or
`another.
` Q. Do you have a reason to disagree with
`this sentence that I just read to you from
`Oppenheim?
` A. At this time, I have no reason to
`either agree or disagree with that sentence,
`no.
` Q. Can you turn your attention to page
`365 of Oppenheim? Do you see the sentence that
`reads -- actually, it's the second paragraph
`from the bottom and I'll read it into the
`record: "An important point becomes evident
`through a comparison of figures 6.15 and 6.30
`whereas the direct form II structure implements
`the poles first and then the zeroes, the
`transposed direct form II structure implements
`the zeroes first and then the poles. Those
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`
`
`Page 23
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` M. Johnson
`differences can become important in the
`presence of quantization in finite-precision
`digital implementations or in the presence of
`noise in discrete-time analog implementations."
` Did I read that correctly?
` A. I believe so.
` Q. Would you agree that with Oppenheim,
`that two systems with a different order of the
`same operation may yield different results
`because of the presence of quantization in
`finite-precision digital implementation?
` A. As with both the other phrases that
`you pointed out in the Oppenheim text, I
`haven't considered them fully. I don't know
`their relationship to the patent at question.
`And since I haven't considered them fully at
`this time I don't have any reason to either
`agree or disagree with those statements.
` Q. Okay. Based upon your experience,
`would you agree that two systems with a
`different order of the same operations may
`yield different results because of the presence
`of quantization in finite-precision digital
`implementation?
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`
`
`Page 24
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` M. Johnson
` MR. LAVENUE: Objection, asked and
` answered. You can answer.
` A. So as I said before, given all the
`examples from this text that you've shown me, I
`haven't fully considered them because I haven't
`identified the relevance to the patent in
`question. And because of that, I haven't fully
`considered or formed an opinion on whether I
`would agree or disagree with those statements,
`or with the statement in the question that you
`just asked.
` Q. Well, the most recent question that I
`asked wasn't limited to particular sentences
`that were in Oppenheim; it was just based upon
`all the experience that you have in the field.
` So just to clarify, do you have an
`opinion as to whether two systems with a
`different order of the same operations may
`yield different results because of the presence
`of quantization in finite-precision digital
`implementation?
` MR. LAVENUE: Objection, asked and
` answered. You can answer.
` A. So again, what I would say is that I
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`
`
`Page 25
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` M. Johnson
`haven't at this time considered this material.
`It's not in the list of the materials that I
`considered in preparing for this particular
`deposition.
` Certainly, I'm qualified in this
`area, and I'm familiar with this text. If you
`would like me to, I can read through these
`materials and attempt to form an opinion on
`that matter at this time, but if you can't give
`me a little more context for why you're asking
`how that pertains to the patent, it would be
`difficult for me to answer other than to say
`that at this time, I have no reason to either
`agree or disagree with in a statement or with
`the information that you're providing.
` Q. So did you review the Oppenheim
`reference prior to coming to your deposition
`here today?
` A. With regard to the deposition, no.
` Q. What would you describe as the field
`of the '802 patent?
` A. So the '802 patent -- and if we like,
`we can refer directly to my declaration, which
`talks about this -- is in the area of speech
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`
`
`Page 26
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` M. Johnson
`processing, and speech coding specifically. So
`it's in the area of speech processing
`technology, a field in which I have over 20
`years of expertise, having taught a number of
`graduate courses in that area and many
`undergraduate courses as well and having
`collaborated with partners from industry and in
`other areas for a long, long time.
` Q. So in those 20 years that you just
`mentioned of experience in this field, have you
`ever encountered a situation where you had two
`systems with a different order of the same
`operations and they yielded different results
`because of the presence of quantization in
`finite-precision digital implementation?
` A. So could you give me some context
`again for how this is specifically relevant to
`the patent in terms of claims and why you're
`asking so that I can have a little more context
`for answering?
` Q. Well, actually, this question, I
`believe, is related to the subject matter of
`the patent. That's why I asked you the
`question.
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`
`
`Page 27
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` M. Johnson
` A. What particular subject matter?
` Q. Well, I think it's involved in -- you
`just indicated, did you not, that the field of
`the '802 patent was about speech coding?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And speech coding involves
`quantization?
` A. Yes.
` Q. So the question that I asked was, in
`fact, related to the field of the patent.
` A. No. Just because the field is speech
`coding, that does not mean that any question
`you could ask about speech coding or speech
`quantization is directly related to the patent.
` Q. Okay, so let's do it this way. If I
`could have the court reporter please read back
`the question that I asked, the substantive
`question.
` (The reporter read from the record as
` follows: "Have you ever encountered a
` situation where you had two systems with a
` different order of the same operations and
` they yielded different results because of
` the presence of quantization in
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`
`
`Page 28
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` M. Johnson
` finite-precision digital implementation?")
` MR. LAVENUE: Objection, asked and
` answered. You can answer.
` A. 20 years is a long time. I can't say
`without, again, reviewing more materials, for
`example, the Oppenheim text or other texts.
`And I would need honestly to review 20 years'
`worth of speech processing syllabi and
`references and graduate projects to identify
`whether that topic had ever come up. So my
`answer would be I don't recall at this time.
` Q. You don't recall ever seeing that
`happen in the 20 years of experience that you
`have in this field? Is that your testimony?
` MR. LAVENUE: Objection, asked and
` answered.
` A. Yes. I would need to review many,
`many years' worth of class notes and graduate
`materials. It may have; it may not have.
` Q. But sitting here today, based on your
`memory, you can't answer that yes one way or
`the other?
` MR. LAVENUE: Objection, asked and
` answered. You can answer.
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`
`
`Page 29
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` M. Johnson
` A. As I said, I would need to review my
`notes. I can't recall right now.
` Q. Can you turn to page 307 of
`Oppenheim?
` A. Yes.
` MR. GONSALVES: By the way, in the
` practice guide, Mr. Lavenue, one of the
` objections that's indicated as being
` inappropriate for IPRs is "Asked and
` answered."
` MR. LAVENUE: Please continue.
` MR. GONSALVES: Okay.
`BY MR. GONSALVES:
` Q. Dr. Johnson, do you see the sentence
`on page 370 of Oppenheim that reads: "One
`motivation for considering alternatives to the
`simple direct-form structures is that different
`structures that are theoretically equivalent
`may behave differently when implemented with
`finite numerical precision"?
` A. Yes, I see it.
` Q. Do you have any reason to disagree
`with that sentence in Oppenheim?
` A. So as with the previous three
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`
`
`Page 30
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` M. Johnson
`sections of Oppenheim that you identified, I
`haven't fully considered all this material and
`would need to reread it and consider it in
`detail to be able to form an opinion. So at
`this time, I don't have a reason to either
`agree or disagree with that particular
`sentence.
` Q. Do you agree that in a system that
`uses finite-precision, the combination of a
`filter and its inverse filter may not yield the
`same result as bypassing both filters?
` MR. LAVENUE: Objection,
` foundation. You can answer.
` A. So for that question we could refer
`to one of the specific claims where that
`situation occurs if you like, and that would
`be -- so I'm referring right now to page 15 of
`my notes, which is in reference to Claim 1,
`subpart F, sub-subpart III, which is about the
`signal injection circuit.
` We can see on that page to the upper
`right there's a segment of figure 2 taken from
`the Schnitzler reference which shows the signal
`injection circuit as its disclosed in
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`
`
`Page 31
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` M. Johnson
`Schnitzler.
` You can also see below a reference to
`Tasaki, which is figure 1 of Tasaki. And that
`blue box there is specifically indicating the
`signal injection circuit as it's shown in
`Tasaki, which has a very slightly different
`configuration than the one shown in Schnitzler.
` If you then flip over to figure --
`the annotated figure on slide -- page 16 of my
`notes on the very next page, there's an
`annotated figure that shows a modified
`configuration of Schnitzler which is one that
`would take the Schnitzler signal injection
`circuit and make a slight modification of it to
`have more the form of the Tasaki signal
`injection circuit. And you see this annotated
`figure.
` What you see here is that you can see
`that there is a up-sampled synthesized speech
`signal identified, which is the oversampled
`synthesized signal.
` Then you can also see that there's a
`spectrally shaped noise sequence that's coming
`out from the 1/A HFR box. It's pointed in --
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`
`
`Page 32
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` M. Johnson
` THE REPORTER: Sir?
` THE WITNESS: Yes?
` THE REPORTER: When we get --
` THE WITNESS: Yes.
` THE REPORTER: -- complex --
` THE WITNESS: Yes.
` THE REPORTER: -- you must slow
` down.
` THE WITNESS: Yes.
` A. So in the right part of that figure
`you can see a box with some yellow font text
`that says "spectrally shaped noise." There's
`an arrow that points to the output of the box
`that's labeled 1/A sub HFR(z). That indicates
`where the spectrally shaped noise is.
` And then you can see how that is
`injected into the oversampled synthesized
`signal to create the overall full-spectr
Accessing this document will incur an additional charge of $.
After purchase, you can access this document again without charge.
Accept $ Charge
Still Working On It
This document is taking longer than usual to download. This can happen if we need to contact the court directly to obtain the document and their servers are running slowly.
Give it another minute or two to complete, and then try the refresh button.
A few More Minutes ... Still Working
It can take up to 5 minutes for us to download a document if the court servers are running slowly.
Thank you for your continued patience.
This document could not be displayed.
We could not find this document within its docket. Please go back to the docket page and check the link. If that does not work, go back to the docket and refresh it to pull the newest information.
Your account does not support viewing this document.
You need a Paid Account to view this document. Click here to change your account type.
Your account does not support viewing this document.
Set your membership
status to view this document.
With a Docket Alarm membership, you'll
get a whole lot more, including:
- Up-to-date information for this case.
- Email alerts whenever there is an update.
- Full text search for other cases.
- Get email alerts whenever a new case matches your search.
One Moment Please
The filing “” is large (MB) and is being downloaded.
Please refresh this page in a few minutes to see if the filing has been downloaded. The filing will also be emailed to you when the download completes.
Your document is on its way!
If you do not receive the document in five minutes, contact support at support@docketalarm.com.
Sealed Document
We are unable to display this document, it may be under a court ordered seal.
If you have proper credentials to access the file, you may proceed directly to the court's system using your government issued username and password.
Access Government Site
