`
`
`
`
`Exhibit 2008
`
`Exhibit 2008
`
`
`
`UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`Page 1
`
`)
`
`) )
`
` _________________________
`
` HTC AMERICA, INC.,
`
` vs.
`
`Petitioner, )
`)
`) Case No. IPR2017-00870
`)
`)
`)
`)
`Patent Owner. )
` _________________________)
`
` VIRGINIA INNOVATION
` SCIENCES, INC.,
`
`DEPOSITION OF KEVIN ALMEROTH
`Los Angeles, California
`Monday, January 8, 2018
`Volume I
`
`VERITEXT LEGAL SOLUTIONS
`MID-ATLANTIC REGION
`300 Delaware Avenue - Suite 815
`Wilmington, Delaware 19801
`
` Reported by:
` LORI M. BARKLEY
` CSR No. 6426
`
` PAGES 1 - 222
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`215-241-1000 ~ 610-434-8588 ~ 302-571-0510 ~ 202-803-8830
`VIS EXHIBIT 2008
`
`1
`2
`
`3 4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`22
`
`23
`24
`25
`
`
`
`UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`Page 2
`
`)
`
`) )
`
` _________________________
`
` HTC AMERICA, INC.,
`
` vs.
`
`Petitioner, )
`)
`) Case No. IPR2017-00870
`)
`)
`)
`)
`Patent Owner. )
` _________________________)
`
` VIRGINIA INNOVATION
` SCIENCES, INC.,
`
`Deposition of KEVIN ALMEROTH, Volume I,
` taken on behalf of Virginia Innovation Sciences,
` Inc., at 515 S. Flower Street, Los Angeles,
` California, beginning at 9:34 a.m., and ending at
` 5:36 p.m., on Monday, January 8, 2018, before LORI M.
` BARKLEY, Certified Shorthand Reporter No. 6426.
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`215-241-1000 ~ 610-434-8588 ~ 302-571-0510 ~ 202-803-8830
`
`1
`2
`
`3 4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`
`
`Page 3
`
` A P P E A R A N C E S :
`
` F o r P l a i n t i f f :
`
` P A U L H A S T I N G S
`
` B Y : J O S E P H E . P A L Y S
`
` - A N D -
`
` K O I C H I R O K I D O K O R O
`
` A t t o r n e y s a t L a w
`
` 8 7 5 1 5 t h S t r e e t N . W .
`
` W a s h i n g t o n , D . C . 2 0 0 0 5
`
` 2 0 2 . 5 5 1 . 1 9 8 2
`
` j o s e p h p a l y s @ p a u l . h a s t i n g s . c o m
`
` k o i c h i r o k i d o k o r o @ p a u l h a s t i n g s . c o m
`
` F o r D e f e n d a n t :
`
` D E V L I N L A W F I R M L L C
`
` B Y : T I M O T H Y D E V L I N
`
` A t t o r n e y a t L a w
`
` 1 3 0 6 N o r t h B r o o m S t r e e t , S u i t e 1
`
` W i l m i n g t o n , D e l a w a r e 1 9 8 0 6
`
` 3 0 2 . 4 4 9 . 9 0 1 0
`
` t d e v l i n @ d e v l i n f i r m . c o m
`
` A l s o a p p e a r i n g :
`
` A n n W a n g ( T e l e p h o n i c a l l y )
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`215-241-1000 ~ 610-434-8588 ~ 302-571-0510 ~ 202-803-8830
`
`1
`
`2 3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`1 0
`
`1 1
`
`1 2
`
`1 3
`
`1 4
`
`1 5
`
`1 6
`
`1 7
`
`1 8
`
`1 9
`
`2 0
`
`2 1
`
`2 2
`
`2 3
`
`2 4
`
`2 5
`
`
`
` INDEX
`
` WITNESS EXAMINATION
`
`Page 4
`
` KEVIN ALMEROTH
`
` Volume I
`
` BY MR. DEVLIN 5
`
` EXHIBITS
`
` (None)
`
` MARKED AT REQUEST OF COUNSEL
`
` Page Line
`
` 94 15
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`215-241-1000 ~ 610-434-8588 ~ 302-571-0510 ~ 202-803-8830
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5 6
`
`7 8 9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`
`
` Los Angeles, California, Monday, January 8, 2018
`
` 9:34 a.m.
`
`Page 5
`
` KEVIN ALMEROTH,
`
` having been administered an oath, was examined and
`
` testified as follows:
`
` EXAMINATION
`
` BY MR. DEVLIN:
`
` Q. Good morning, Dr. Almeroth.
`
` A. Good morning.
`
` Q. Am I saying your name right, first of all?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. My name is Tim Devlin. I represent Virginia
`
` Innovation Sciences in these series of IPRs that
`
` we're going to be talking about over the next two
`
` days.
`
` And for the record, and I think we have an
`
` agreement between counsel, all the testimony that
`
` will be given today and tomorrow will be applicable
`
` to all of the IPRs that are at issue, which are
`
` numbers 2017-870 through 879.
`
` MR. PALYS: If I could just clarify because
`
` you used the word "applicable." You can submit them
`
` as a single exhibit in all of them regarding the
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`215-241-1000 ~ 610-434-8588 ~ 302-571-0510 ~ 202-803-8830
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3 4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7 8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`Page 6
`
` testimony that he gives, some may not be applicable,
`
` because there's different grounds, different
`
` references. Just splitting hairs here.
`
` MR. DEVLIN: I hear what you're saying, but
`
` let's make it clear for the record because it's an
`
` important issue and I think we're on the same page,
`
` but I do want to be sure.
`
` There's going to be no objection regarding
`
` the use of any testimony in any of the given IPRs on
`
` some procedural ground like it was only taken in one
`
` IPR and not another? Fair.
`
` MR. PALYS: That's correct.
`
` MR. DEVLIN: Thank you.
`
` Q. Doctor, have you been deposed before?
`
` A. Yes, I have.
`
` Q. About how many times?
`
` A. On the order of about 50.
`
` Q. 5-0?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. Are those all patent cases or other types of
`
` cases in there as well?
`
` A. There are other types of cases in there.
`
` Q. Give me some examples of other types of
`
` cases.
`
` A. There's a trade secret case. I think one
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`215-241-1000 ~ 610-434-8588 ~ 302-571-0510 ~ 202-803-8830
`
`
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`Page 7
`
` was a contract dispute, but I think the rest were
`
` patent related.
`
` Q. On each of the patent cases was your
`
` testimony given in your role as an expert witness or
`
` were any of them some other role?
`
` A. My recollection is that they were all as an
`
` expert.
`
` Q. The non-patent cases, were any of those as
`
` anything other than as an expert witness?
`
` A. No, I don't believe so.
`
` Q. So make sure I have this right: All the
`
` depositions you've given to the extent you're
`
` recalling here today, they were given as part of your
`
` role in that particular matter as an expert witness.
`
` Do I have that right?
`
` A. I think that's true except for one, but that
`
` was a personal matter.
`
` Q. Is it anything to do with patents or
`
` technology or totally something else?
`
` A. Totally something else.
`
` Q. Was it a criminal matter?
`
` A. No.
`
` Q. Did it involve any accusation of fraud on
`
` your part?
`
` A. No.
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`215-241-1000 ~ 610-434-8588 ~ 302-571-0510 ~ 202-803-8830
`
`
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`Page 8
`
` Q. Thank you. I'm sorry to ask those
`
` questions. I need to ask them. You've been here
`
` before.
`
` Let's go through the ground rules of the
`
` deposition to make sure you and I are on the same
`
` page. I'm going to be asking questions today and
`
` you'll be giving answers to those questions to the
`
` extent you can; is that right?
`
` A. That sounds right.
`
` Q. If ever I ask you a question that's
`
` confusing, that you need clarification, please let me
`
` know. My goal is not to trick you. My goal is to
`
` understand what your opinions are and what they are
`
` based on, where we agree and where we disagree.
`
` All right?
`
` A. Yeah. That's good, and it would be
`
` especially helpful if you could point to which
`
` matters we're talking about, which claims if it's
`
` relevant to a particular claim.
`
` Q. Sure.
`
` Just FYI, I think my general application
`
` here is to go through the documents that we'll be
`
` working with, so it should be pretty clear but if
`
` there's ever a question, will you let me know?
`
` A. Excellent, we'll do.
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`215-241-1000 ~ 610-434-8588 ~ 302-571-0510 ~ 202-803-8830
`
`
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` Q. Thank you.
`
` You understand your testimony today is given
`
`Page 9
`
` under oath, right?
`
` A. I do.
`
` Q. And you swore to tell the truth, the whole
`
` truth, and nothing but the truth, right?
`
` A. That's correct.
`
` Q. And you'll do that?
`
` A. I will.
`
` Q. We'll take breaks every hour or so. If you
`
` need a break, just let me know. The only exception
`
` to that is if there's a question pending, I'll ask
`
` for an answer to that question and we'll take a
`
` break, okay?
`
` A. Certainly.
`
` Q. Is there anything today, medical or
`
` otherwise, that would prevent you from giving
`
` truthful and accurate testimony?
`
` A. No.
`
` Q. That's a "no"?
`
` A. "No."
`
` Q. Thank you.
`
` You have a copy of -- we're going to refer
`
` to these exhibit numbers at the bottom right-hand
`
` corner of these documents.
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`215-241-1000 ~ 610-434-8588 ~ 302-571-0510 ~ 202-803-8830
`
`
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`Page 10
`
` You've been through this before, right?
`
` A. I have.
`
` Q. Okay. So we're going to refer to these
`
` exhibits by their bottom right hand number unless
`
` there's sometimes a little bit of ambiguity because
`
` there may be a couple things that have the exact same
`
` number. For the most part it will be simple.
`
` MR. PALYS: Can I give a suggestion maybe to
`
` help on that?
`
` MR. DEVLIN: Sure.
`
` MR. PALYS: One thing you might be able to
`
` do is like since the exhibit you have given the
`
` witness is the '853 Patent, call it the '853 Patent
`
` Declaration, because they're all going to have the
`
` same exhibit number, something of that nature.
`
` MR. DEVLIN: I think that's fair. You're
`
` right, because most of the other exhibits --
`
` MR. PALYS: You can do what you want.
`
` MR. DEVLIN: I appreciate that because I was
`
` about to start calling it 1003.
`
` Q. So what we have before you is what's been
`
` marked as HTC Exhibit 1003 on the bottom right, and
`
` it is your declaration related to the IPR for the
`
` '853 Patent.
`
` Do you see that?
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`215-241-1000 ~ 610-434-8588 ~ 302-571-0510 ~ 202-803-8830
`
`
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`Page 11
`
` A. I do.
`
` Q. So would it be clear if we refer to this as
`
` your '853 Declaration during your deposition?
`
` A. It would.
`
` Q. We'll refer to it as that.
`
` Thanks for that suggestion. It's useful.
`
` I want to talk first about the process for
`
` preparing this declaration. Actually, let me give
`
` you a bit of a foreshadowing of what I'm going to try
`
` to do to make these next couple days go more quickly.
`
` We're going to go through this and I'm going
`
` to ask you some questions about various topics and so
`
` forth. There's overlap sometimes between what's in
`
` this declaration, what's in others, you know, the
`
` same prior art, etc.
`
` So from time to time I may ask you questions
`
` about this declaration, the '853 Declaration, and
`
` then ask you if the same thing is true with respect
`
` to the others, and I think I'll do that in a way that
`
` will be manageable, but of course, if you have
`
` questions let me know. But my goal is to try not to
`
` repeat getting the same testimony for each
`
` declaration for all ten of them when it's going to be
`
` the same anything.
`
` Does that make sense?
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`215-241-1000 ~ 610-434-8588 ~ 302-571-0510 ~ 202-803-8830
`
`
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`Page 12
`
` A. It does.
`
` Q. So just work with me, let me know if there's
`
` ever a question about clarity, and we'll try to make
`
` this as efficient as we can, okay?
`
` A. Sounds good.
`
` Q. Thank you.
`
` So I want to talk first about the process by
`
` which this declaration was created -- was produced.
`
` Can you generally tell me how that happened;
`
` what were the steps in producing this declaration,
`
` the '853 Declaration?
`
` A. I'm not sure I really recall the particular
`
` steps. I mean, at some point, I would have created a
`
` draft that would have included some of the material
`
` that's here, and then worked from there to fill in
`
` the sections and based on the analysis that I had
`
` done with respect to the prior art references and the
`
` claims at issue.
`
` Q. Did you write, like, physically be the
`
` scrivener for this entire thing or was that a shared
`
` declaration?
`
` A. I mean, certainly there are things that I
`
` didn't write, cut and pasted citations from the prior
`
` art references, claim limitations, but ultimately
`
` when it was done and I signed it, it represented the
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`215-241-1000 ~ 610-434-8588 ~ 302-571-0510 ~ 202-803-8830
`
`
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` opinions that I had developed and were included in
`
` the document.
`
` Q. Was it ever edited by any of the attorneys
`
`Page 13
`
` for HTC?
`
` A. I don't recall.
`
` Q. The testimony you just gave about the
`
` creation of this '853 Patent declaration, would that
`
` be the same for the other declarations in the other
`
` IPRs that we're talking about, or is there anything
`
` that stands out as to any of the others that would be
`
` different than what you just said?
`
` A. I don't recall there being anything
`
` substantively different in terms of the process.
`
` Q. How was the prior art that is referenced
`
` within this declaration, identified? In other words,
`
` did you go out and search and find it or did someone
`
` give it to you?
`
` A. I don't recall specifically.
`
` Q. For any of it?
`
` A. For any particular reference, whether I had
`
` seen it before or I had gotten it from counsel, I
`
` couldn't say for any particular reference.
`
` Q. Do you recall conducting any searching for
`
` prior art specifically related to any of the
`
` declarations in the collection of IPRs, '870 to '879?
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`215-241-1000 ~ 610-434-8588 ~ 302-571-0510 ~ 202-803-8830
`
`
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`Page 14
`
` A. It's hard to say. I mean, I have looked for
`
` prior art in the past. I can't say whether or not it
`
` was in conjunction with any of these IPRs.
`
` Q. Do you recall -- let me start that again.
`
` Is it correct to say that, at least, some of
`
` the prior art that is referenced within your
`
` declaration was provided to you by counsel for HTC?
`
` A. It's certainly possible.
`
` Q. When you say it's possible, I mean, what is
`
` your recollection? Do you recall receiving any from
`
` them, or you have no recollection whatsoever either
`
` way?
`
` A. Well, again, consistent with what I said
`
` earlier, some of these references, I have seen
`
` before. I have looked for prior art either just for
`
` a general background sense in the context of these
`
` patents and other related patents.
`
` So when it comes to these particular
`
` declarations, and the art that's cited in them, I
`
` don't recall if I had seen the art before, or if I
`
` had seen it for the first time. And so that's why I
`
` said, it certainly might be the case that some of
`
` these references were provided to me by counsel. I
`
` just don't recall.
`
` Q. What was your process in coming to your
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`215-241-1000 ~ 610-434-8588 ~ 302-571-0510 ~ 202-803-8830
`
`
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`Page 15
`
` opinions today? Let me particularize the question
`
` there for you.
`
` Did you read the VIS patents first and then
`
` look at the prior art or vice versa?
`
` A. Again, it would be hard to say. Obviously,
`
` prior to beginning my work on these IPRs, I had seen
`
` the VIS patents previously, at least some of them.
`
` I've seen the specification, because it's a
`
` common specification. So it would be hard to say
`
` that I read the prior art before seeing the patents.
`
` I'd have to go back quite a few years to try
`
` and recall when I first saw the patents and what
`
` prior art I had seen at the time. I just don't
`
` remember.
`
` Q. Did your review of the patents guide the
`
` selection of prior art that you selected for use in
`
` your declarations?
`
` MR. PALYS: Objection, form.
`
` THE WITNESS: It's a bit of a difficult
`
` question to answer. I'm not really sure.
`
` BY MR. DEVLIN:
`
` Q. Why aren't you sure? You can't remember or
`
` you don't understand the question, or what's the
`
` issue there?
`
` A. Well, when you say did it guide you, I mean,
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`215-241-1000 ~ 610-434-8588 ~ 302-571-0510 ~ 202-803-8830
`
`
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`Page 16
`
` clearly, I have to have a sense of what the patents
`
` are about and have a sense of both what the patent is
`
` about and generally what the claims are about. I
`
` have that in mind when thinking, reviewing the prior
`
` art.
`
` I think, ultimately, though, when it comes
`
` to rendering opinions about what's disclosed in the
`
` prior art, it is generally not with respect to
`
` following the patents or the claims as a recipe or a
`
` guideline, and then matching it up with the prior
`
` art. It's more looking at those references and what
`
` they disclose from that perspective.
`
` Q. How many, roughly, expert engagements have
`
` you been involved in for patent cases?
`
` A. Probably on the order of 50, plus or minus.
`
` There are generally very few where I am engaged that
`
` I am not ultimately deposed, and it seems that most
`
` of the ones that I am engaged in make it to the point
`
` where I have offered sworn testimony, and so appear
`
` in my CV.
`
` Q. How many of those 50 odd involved IPRs?
`
` A. I've done a fair number of IPRs over the
`
` last several years. In some cases like this one,
`
` where there's 10 declarations, I'm not sure if you
`
` would count that as 10 IPRs or really one IPR.
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`215-241-1000 ~ 610-434-8588 ~ 302-571-0510 ~ 202-803-8830
`
`
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`Page 17
`
` Assuming you'd count them individually, it
`
` could be around 30 or so.
`
` Q. Let's use the same counting you used to
`
` decide you've been involved in about 50 patent
`
` matters. How much of those matters, when you count
`
` them that way, involved IPRs?
`
` A. The way I counted, there would have
`
` represented this as a single matter even though
`
` there's 10 separate IPRs. Maybe 20. Generally, my
`
` CV is I believe about the last four years. I don't
`
` think there are many IPRs that I was working on more
`
` than four years ago. There might be one or two.
`
` Obviously, the IPR process is somewhat new.
`
` So by and large, they would be represented in my
`
` declaration. There was a few instances where I was
`
` working on declarations but were never filed.
`
` Q. Going back to the collection of the full 50
`
` or so patent matters, what percentage of those were
`
` you affiliated in your representation with the patent
`
` owner?
`
` A. Generally, it's about 50-50. It's varied
`
` over the years that I've been working. I think
`
` somebody asked me this question recently, and then
`
` took the time to step through my CV and I recall that
`
` some of the more recent cases I've been working on,
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`215-241-1000 ~ 610-434-8588 ~ 302-571-0510 ~ 202-803-8830
`
`
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`Page 18
`
` it's a little bit more weighted towards patent
`
` owners.
`
` Q. And how about, now, same question but
`
` confined to the matters where IPRs were involved.
`
` What percentage is for patent owners and what
`
` percentage is for the accused infringer, the
`
` defendant, whatever you want to call them?
`
` A. Generally, my sense is it's about 50-50
`
` between petitioners and patent owners. It's just a
`
` sense. I'd have to look through the CV just to be
`
` absolutely certain.
`
` Q. Just to see if we can do this efficiently,
`
` before this matter, were you ever engaged by HTC or
`
` counsel working for HTC on the matter you were hired
`
` on?
`
` A. Two parts to that question. The first is
`
` HTC, I don't recall that I have been ever retained on
`
` behalf of HTC with respect to Paul Hastings. I don't
`
` recall. But I will say I think I've had my
`
` deposition taken somewhere in this row of conference
`
` rooms, and I don't remember if it was for or against
`
` Paul Hastings.
`
` Q. Let me break that second question out
`
` because I want to be clear about it. So thank you
`
` for the HTC answer.
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`215-241-1000 ~ 610-434-8588 ~ 302-571-0510 ~ 202-803-8830
`
`
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`Page 19
`
` Let me ask the question about Paul Hastings.
`
` But independent of HTC, just in general, I think
`
` that's what you were answering but let me just
`
` confirm.
`
` Do you recall any engagements where you were
`
` retained by Paul Hastings or by a client of Paul
`
` Hastings, so you were working with Paul Hastings on
`
` the matter?
`
` A. I don't recall.
`
` Sorry, I don't recall. I don't think so.
`
` And if it was, it was maybe one other case.
`
` Q. Over the last, let's use four years as a
`
` barometer, what percentage of your total income would
`
` you say relates to expert consulting work for any
`
` sort of lawsuits, patent or otherwise, just, you
`
` know, rough average over the four-year period?
`
` A. Very rough average, it might be about
`
` 50 percent.
`
` Q. Do you have any familiarity at all -- let me
`
` rephrase this and tell you what I'm going to try to
`
` get at so my questions are clear.
`
` I want to see if you know anybody that's
`
` involved in any of the cases here, VIS, any of the
`
` prior authors, etc., that's what I'm going to be
`
` getting at in these next couple questions. So I
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`215-241-1000 ~ 610-434-8588 ~ 302-571-0510 ~ 202-803-8830
`
`
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`Page 20
`
` don't want to quibble with the language, but I want
`
` it to be clear for you and clear for the record, but
`
` that's what I'm getting at so let me just start with
`
` VIS.
`
` Do you have any connection at all to anyone
`
` affiliated with VIS? And by "connection," I mean,
`
` know them personally, met them somewhere, you know,
`
` actually spoke to or communicated with at some point?
`
` MR. PALYS: Objection, form.
`
` THE WITNESS: I don't know everyone that
`
` would encompass. Obviously, I'm not sure if that
`
` includes any of the lawyers. I mean, my deposition
`
` has been taken.
`
` The only other instances I've probably seen
`
` Ms. Wang, I think she attended one of my depositions,
`
` I might have said hello to her, but outside of any of
`
` those proceedings or the people involved in those
`
` proceedings who were -- or who were present at those
`
` proceedings, I don't recall that I have. I don't
`
` think I have.
`
` BY MR. DEVLIN:
`
` Q. Let me try to ask a global question for all
`
` of the named authors of the prior art references that
`
` are cited in your report, just to see if we can
`
` collectivize it in one question.
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`215-241-1000 ~ 610-434-8588 ~ 302-571-0510 ~ 202-803-8830
`
`
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`Page 21
`
` Have you ever communicated with any of them
`
` at any time, that you can recall?
`
` A. The best that I can say is sitting here now,
`
` I don't recall seeing a name on the reference that
`
` stood out as somebody who I recognized their name. I
`
` can't say that I have looked through every single
`
` reference for the complete list of authors and
`
` confirmed whether I knew them or might have run into
`
` them.
`
` I might have met them at a technical
`
` conference and then didn't put two and two together
`
` that it was the same person.
`
` But if I understand your question, it's more
`
` about any kind of substantive communication or
`
` interaction, and on that level I don't recall any.
`
` Q. When you say you don't recall, sitting here
`
` now, there's nothing that comes to mind that would
`
` fall within the scope of that question.
`
` Am I understanding you right?
`
` A. That's correct. As I sit here, I mean, over
`
` the course of the day when we, to the extent we do,
`
` look at any of these references, you know, I can
`
` double check or you can just ask a quick question.
`
` For example, there's a Turner reference. I
`
` know a Turner. I don't think it's the same Turner,
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`215-241-1000 ~ 610-434-8588 ~ 302-571-0510 ~ 202-803-8830
`
`
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` but I can certainly double check.
`
` Q. Did you contact or communicate with any of
`
` the authors of any of these references for purposes
`
`Page 22
`
` of these proceedings?
`
` A. I don't believe so.
`
` Q. I'm looking at page 2 of your '853
`
` Declaration that starts your background and
`
` qualifications, just for reference.
`
` Do you see that?
`
` A. I do.
`
` Q. Let me just ask you a few general questions
`
` before we get into particulars of what you've written
`
` in this declaration. Let me do this question, it
`
` will be easier.
`
` Take a look at your CV and tell me if it's
`
` still accurate or if there's some update or change
`
` that you would make to it, sitting here now.
`
` A. So this declaration was signed
`
` February 10th, 2017. This -- or the CV would have
`
` been up to date at the time. Since then, which it's
`
` been almost a year, there would be additional classes
`
` taught. I don't think I've graduated any students,
`
` taken on new technical advising. There might be some
`
` additional publications. I've done lots of
`
` conference organization, paper review, so there's
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`215-241-1000 ~ 610-434-8588 ~ 302-571-0510 ~ 202-803-8830
`
`
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`Page 23
`
` sections on that.
`
` And then certainly a number of additional
`
` cases that I've worked on or been deposed on that
`
` would go on the last couple of pages. But other than
`
` that, I don't think there's really substantive
`
` changes or errors that I'm aware of.
`
` Q. Looking at paragraph 6 of your '853
`
` Declaration, the first sentence reads (as read):
`
` One of the major themes of my
`
` research has been the delivery of
`
` multimedia content and data between
`
` computing devices and users.
`
` Do you see that?
`
` A. I do.
`
` Q. Have you ever conducted any research
`
` related -- that you would say is related to providing
`
` video from a cell phone to a larger screen?
`
` A. So an answer with two parts. The first is
`
` "related to" is fairly broad. I think in a general
`
` sense related to in the underlying concepts and
`
` technologies of what's involved, is something that's
`
` been in an area or areas that I've worked on
`
` extensively.
`
` Based on, for example, the first sentence in
`
` paragraph 6 that you read, and then all the details
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`215-241-1000 ~ 610-434-8588 ~ 302-571-0510 ~ 202-803-8830
`
`
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`Page 24
`
` across the exhibits. More specifically, I'm thinking
`
` about the reception of video to cell phones and then
`
` potentially delivering it to other devices. I've
`
` done research on receiving data and cell phones,
`
` looking at delay loss and jitter characteristics.
`
` I've looked at receiving video to portable
`
` devices, whether or not they have cellular
`
` technology, I'd have to go back and see. But
`
` ultimately, if you look at kind of the fundamental
`
` technologies involved, they're really quite standard
`
` and overlap of much of the research that I've done.
`
` Q. In any of your research -- let me restart
`
` that question. Let me try to fine tune what I'm
`
` getting at.
`
` Did any of your research actually involve
`
` efforts to reproduce what was on a cellular telephone
`
` on a larger screen like a TV?
`
` A. That's a tough question to answer. The
`
` reason is that there are a number of papers that I've
`
` written that relate to receiving content, some of
`
` which is video, press video and audio, to cellular
`
` phones and mobile devices, incorporating those
`
` devices into networks of varying types, including
`
` relaying content, wireless communication.
`
` So for example on page 16 of 34, there's a
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`215-241-1000 ~ 610-434-8588 ~ 302-571-0510 ~ 202-803-8830
`
`
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`Page 25
`
` paper we published in 2006, it's number 25 on page 16
`
` of 34. On Exhibit 1004 to the '853 Patent that talks
`
` about friend relay, and it's a resource sharing frame
`
` network for mobile wireless devices.
`
` I don't remember within the context of that
`
` paper whether or not there was relaying of the video
`
` to another external display. That's the kind of
`
` thing I'm trying to work through in my mind in terms
`
` of what papers I've worked on that would identify
`
` that technology specifically.
`
` As I've testified to, we've looked at a
`
` large number of problems around video delivery,
`
` including video delivery to mobile devices. I don't
`
` recall whether or not any of that technology
`
` specifically covered receiving it and then --
`
` receiving it into a cell phone and then projecting it
`
` on to some other kind of device.
`
` Other papers that come to mind are in the
`
` context of the educational multimedia. So, for
`
` example, reference 28 on page 14, essentially we
`
` built this technology classroom where we were
`
` collecting audio and video, transmitting it to remote
`
` sites. And I believe in the context of some of those
`
` papers, we were thinking about students being able to
`
` watch this on mobile devices and potentially
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`215-241-1000 ~ 610-434-8588 ~ 302-571-0510 ~ 202-803-8830
`
`
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`Page 26
`
` displayed in remote classroom.
`
` I don't recall if within that setting,
`
` specifically the scenario that you described is
`
` contemplated or not, but it certainly might be.
`
` As I said also earlier that the underlying
`
` technology for receiving video into a cell phone and
`
` then relaying that video potentially for displays, is
`
` an idea and a concept that's been around for quite
`
` awhile.
`
` Q. I'm trying to focus on what you have done.
`
` I get that there's other information that we'll be
`
` talking about.
`
` Would you characterize it as a focus of your
`
` research to receive video or a signal that represents
`
` video into a cell phone and reproducing it on a
`
` larger screen, like a TV?
`
` A. In terms of a focus, I don't really think
`
` it's a focus. I can't identify some set of papers,
`
` some significant set of the 200 or so papers I've
`
` written, that address that point specifically.
`
` The best I can say is, as I testified to
`
` earlier, there's lots of papers where I look at the
`
` underlying technology that would be needed in that
`
` kind of scenario.
`
` Q. Are you a named inventor of any patents
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`215-241-1000 ~ 610-434-8588 ~ 302-571-0510 ~ 202-803-8830
`
`
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`Page 27
`
` about anything?
`
` A. I don't believe so. One of my students
`
` wanted to do a patent application, I think it was
`
` abandoned at one point, but by and large, we publish
`
` our contributions in technical conferences for the
`
` public to use.
`
` Q. To clarify, you mean publish as an
`
` alternative to patenting; is that what you're saying?
`
` A. That's right. Given that I work in a public
`
` university, we tend to publish in technical
`
` conferences, our papers. I don't think that there's
`
` intellectual property constraints on the use
Accessing this document will incur an additional charge of $.
After purchase, you can access this document again without charge.
Accept $ Charge
Still Working On It
This document is taking longer than usual to download. This can happen if we need to contact the court directly to obtain the document and their servers are running slowly.
Give it another minute or two to complete, and then try the refresh button.
A few More Minutes ... Still Working
It can take up to 5 minutes for us to download a document if the court servers are running slowly.
Thank you for your continued patience.
This document could not be displayed.
We could not find this document within its docket. Please go back to the docket page and check the link. If that does not work, go back to the docket and refresh it to pull the newest information.
Your account does not support viewing this document.
You need a Paid Account to view this document. Click here to change your account type.
Your account does not support viewing this document.
Set your membership
status to view this document.
With a Docket Alarm membership, you'll
get a whole lot more, including:
- Up-to-date information for this case.
- Email alerts whenever there is an update.
- Full text search for other cases.
- Get email alerts whenever a new case matches your search.
One Moment Please
The filing “” is large (MB) and is being downloaded.
Please refresh this page in a few minutes to see if the filing has been downloaded. The filing will also be emailed to you when the download completes.
Your document is on its way!
If you do not receive the document in five minutes, contact support at support@docketalarm.com.
Sealed Document
We are unable to display this document, it may be under a court ordered seal.
If you have proper credentials to access the file, you may proceed directly to the court's system using your government issued username and password.
Access Government Site
