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`B. Wong
`UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`_____________________________
`HTC AMERICA, INC.
`Petitioner
`v.
` VIRGINIA INNOVATION SCIENCES, INC.
`Patent Owner
`_____________________________
`Case IPR2017-00870
`Patent 7,899,492
`Case IPR2017-00871
`Patent 8,050,711
`Case IPR2017-00874
`Patent 8,712,471
`Case IPR2017-00876
`Case IPR2017-00877
`Patent 8,903,451
`Case IPR2017-00878
`Patent 8,948,814
`DEPOSITION OF DR. BRAYDEN WONG
`Washington, D.C.
`Volume One - April 9, 2018
`Job No. 139990; Reported by Mary Ann Payonk
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
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`Page 1 of 155
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`HTC EXHIBIT 1039
`HTC America, Inc. v. Virginia Innovation Sciences, Inc.
`IPR2017-00871
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`B. Wong
`UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`_____________________________
`HTC AMERICA, INC.
`Petitioner
`v.
` VIRGINIA INNOVATION SCIENCES, INC.
`Patent Owner
`_____________________________
`Case IPR2017-00870
`Patent 7,899,492
`Case IPR2017-00871
`Patent 8,050,711
`Case IPR2017-00874
`Patent 8,712,471
`Case IPR2017-00876
`Case IPR2017-00877
`Patent 8,903,451
`Case IPR2017-00878
`Patent 8,948,814
`DEPOSITION OF DR. BRAYDEN WONG
`Washington, D.C.
`Volume One - April 9, 2018
`Job No. 139990; Reported by Mary Ann Payonk
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
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`Page 1 of 155
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`HTC EXHIBIT 1039
`HTC America, Inc. v. Virginia Innovation Sciences, Inc.
`IPR2017-00871
`
`
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`Page 2
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` B. Wong
`(Caption Continues)
`UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
` _____________________________
` HTC AMERICA, INC.
` Petitioner
` v.
` VIRGINIA INNOVATION SCIENCES, INC.
` Patent Owner
` _____________________________
` Case IPR2017-00879
` Patent 9,118,794
` Case IPR2017-00875
` Patent 9,286,853
` Case IPR2017-00872
` Case IPR2017-00873
` Patent 9,355,611
`
` DEPOSITION OF DR. BRAYDEN WONG
` Washington, D.C.
` Volume One - April 9, 2018
`
`Reported by: Mary Ann Payonk
`Job No. 139990
`
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` B. Wong
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`Page 3
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` April 9, 2018
` 9:00 a.m.
`
` Deposition of DR. BRAYDEN WONG, Volume
`One, held at the law offices of Paul Hastings,
`875 15th Street, N.W., Washington, D.C.,
`pursuant to Notice before Mary Ann Payonk,
`Nationally Certified Realtime Reporter and
`Notary Public of the District of Columbia,
`Commonwealth of Virginia, and State of New
`York.
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` B. Wong
`APPEARANCES:
`ON BEHALF OF HTC AMERICA, INC.:
` JOSEPH PALYS, ESQUIRE
` KOICHIRO KIDOKORO, ESQUIRE
` NAVEEN MODI, ESQUIRE
` PAUL HASTINGS
` 875 15th Street, N.W.
` Washington, D.C. 20005
`
`ON BEHALF OF VIRGINIA INNOVATION SCIENCES,
`INC.:
` JAMES LENNON, ESQUIRE
` DEVLIN LAW FIRM
` 1306 N. Broom Street
` Wilmington, DE 19806
`
`ALSO PRESENT:
` Helen Cole,
` Chinese<>English Interpreter
` Ms. Ann Wang
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` B. Wong
` (Note: The witness was sworn, after 09:01:06
` which the interpreter was sworn.) 09:01:06
` *** 09:02:45
`DR. BRAYDEN WONG, 09:02:45
` called as a witness, having been duly 09:02:45
` sworn, was examined and testified as 09:02:45
` follows: 09:02:45
` EXAMINATION 09:02:43
`BY MR. PALYS: 09:03:03
` Q. Good morning, Dr. Wong. 09:03:04
` A. Good morning. 09:03:06
` Q. Thank you for being here today. 09:03:07
`Before we begin, I just want to get some issues 09:03:09
`out of the way so I'm going to have a 09:03:13
`conversation with your attorney here, okay? 09:03:15
` A. Okay. 09:03:22
` MR. PALYS: So there was a pause 09:03:22
` already on that first question. This is 09:03:23
` the issue, Jim, that I have. Right now, 09:03:25
` counsel for VIS is allowing their 09:03:27
` witness to read the realtime feed that 09:03:31
` is being provided by the court reporter. 09:03:33
` Petitioner objects to this. We think 09:03:37
` it's inappropriate. And I'll let patent 09:03:39
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` owner provide his position on the 09:03:41
` record. 09:03:43
` MR. LENNON: So Mr. Wong is fluent 09:03:44
` in reading and writing English. He's 09:03:47
` less comfortable orally listening and 09:03:49
` speaking in English and we, in order to 09:03:52
` allow the deposition to continue in 09:03:58
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` going to allow Mr. Wong to read the 09:04:08
` current question. This shouldn't be 09:04:11
` objectionable. We're agreeing not to 09:04:12
` scroll back through the record to look 09:04:15
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` just going to be for the current 09:04:22
` question and hopefully will ultimately 09:04:24
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` if we're not having to ask for so many 09:04:29
` translations. 09:04:32
` And I'll note further for the 09:04:33
` record that we did agree to be available 09:04:34
` for a third day to the extent that the 09:04:38
` time delay involved in the language 09:04:41
` issues requires us to take more time. 09:04:43
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` MR. PALYS: Okay. Thank you, Jim. 09:04:47
` Yesterday, I understand that VIS 09:04:50
` submitted and filed with the board a 09:04:55
` stipulation on behalf of both parties 09:04:57
` with respect to these matters. Is that 09:05:00
` accurate? 09:05:02
` MR. LENNON: That's accurate. 09:05:03
` MR. PALYS: I don't believe we got 09:05:05
` a service copy of that, but I'm assuming 09:05:06
` that the stipulations that the parties 09:05:08
` agreed with in our communications 09:05:10
` yesterday is what was filed with the 09:05:13
` PTAB. Correct? 09:05:17
` MR. LENNON: That's my 09:05:18
` understanding as well. 09:05:18
`BY MR. PALYS: 09:05:22
` Q. Okay, now back to you, Dr. Wong. 09:05:23
` A. Okay. 09:05:25
` Q. Could you please spell your first and 09:05:26
`last name for the record? 09:05:30
` A. My first name is Brayden, 09:05:33
`B-R-A-Y-D-E-N. Yeah. My last name is Wong, 09:05:34
`W-O-N-G. Yeah. 09:05:46
` Q. Thank you. 09:05:53
`
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` And, Dr. Wong, is that your legal 09:05:54
`name, Brayden Wong? 09:06:00
` A. Yes. 09:06:06
` Q. Do you have a -- well, let me ask you 09:06:07
`this. Are you a Chinese citizen? 09:06:09
` A. Chinese citizen. 09:06:14
` Q. You're not a United States citizen; 09:06:15
`correct? 09:06:16
` A. Yes. 09:06:21
` Q. Yes, meaning that you are not a 09:06:23
`United States citizen? 09:06:25
` A. I'm a Chinese citizen. 09:06:27
` Q. Okay. So is Brayden Wong your 09:06:28
`Chinese citizen name? Let me rephrase that. 09:06:31
` Is Brayden Wong your Chinese legal 09:06:36
`name? 09:06:40
` A. My Chinese name. I have Chinese 09:06:45
`name. 09:06:47
` Q. And what is that? 09:06:48
` A. Wang Jian. 09:06:49
` Q. Can you spell that please? 09:06:50
` A. Yeah. W-A-N-G. Jian, J-I-A-N. 09:06:54
` THE REPORTER: Spell it for me, 09:07:14
` sir. 09:07:14
`
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` THE WITNESS: Yeah, J-I-A-N. 09:07:14
` Q. J-I-A-N? 09:07:16
` A. J-I-A-N, yeah. 09:07:16
` Q. J-I-A-N, is that right? 09:07:23
` A. J-I-A-N. 09:07:26
` Q. Okay, thank you. 09:07:26
` Dr. Wong, you understand you are here 09:07:45
`today to testify with respect to your opinions 09:07:47
`provided in a declaration that relates to 10 09:07:52
`inter partes review cases involving VIS and 09:07:56
`HTC; correct? 09:08:01
` A. Yes. 09:08:05
` Q. Have you been deposed before, sir? 09:08:12
` A. No. 09:08:20
` Q. Have you ever given any testimony in 09:08:21
`court? 09:08:24
` A. No. 09:08:35
` Q. You understand that you are under 09:08:37
`oath today; correct? 09:08:39
` A. Correct. 09:08:45
` Q. And you understand today I will be 09:08:46
`asking you questions and you will be providing 09:08:48
`answers to those questions; correct? 09:08:51
` A. Correct. 09:08:58
`
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` Q. And if you do not understand a 09:08:59
`question, I would appreciate it if you'd let me 09:09:03
`know so therefore, I could clarify it for you. 09:09:06
`Okay? 09:09:10
` A. Thank you. 09:09:10
` Q. Do you understand? 09:09:13
` A. Yes. 09:09:14
` Q. If you provide me an answer to a 09:09:18
`question, I'm going to assume that you 09:09:20
`understood my question unless you tell me 09:09:21
`otherwise. All right? 09:09:24
` A. Okay. 09:09:31
` Q. If you feel like you need a break 09:09:33
`today, just let me know and we'll try to 09:09:35
`accommodate you. 09:09:38
` A. Okay. 09:09:43
` Q. Is there any reason why you cannot 09:09:44
`testify today completely and accurately? 09:09:47
` A. Lawyer ask me to answer your question 09:09:57
`accurately and clearly and therefore, I prefer 09:10:01
`to have -- I reserve the rights to have the 09:10:13
`interpretation in order to avoid 09:10:16
`misunderstanding your question and at the same 09:10:22
`time express myself precisely and clearly. 09:10:25
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` Q. Thank you for that. 09:10:30
` MR. PALYS: I want to note for the 09:10:32
` record here that it's not going to show 09:10:33
` up on a transcript, but there's a lot of 09:10:35
` pauses between what Dr. Wong -- when 09:10:37
` he's testifying. And from what I can 09:10:40
` gather, he's reading his answer on the. 09:10:42
` Q. Realtime as he's providing his 09:10:45
`answer, which is not really what my 09:10:47
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`going to use the realtime transcript for. If 09:10:51
`he needs to use the realtime transcript to read 09:10:54
`the question, that's fine, but he should be 09:10:57
`able to provide the answer back to me in 09:11:00
`English without reading his answer as he's 09:11:03
`providing it. I think that's inappropriate, 09:11:04
`and we object to that. 09:11:06
` MR. LENNON: Okay. I mean, I'm 09:11:09
` going to let Mr. Wong -- I'm not going 09:11:11
` to instruct him one way or the other. I 09:11:14
` think however he feels most comfortable 09:11:15
` giving his testimony, but I'll let you 09:11:17
` note that for the record. 09:11:20
` MR. PALYS: You're going to let 09:11:22
`
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` your witness continue to review the 09:11:23
` realtime transcript during this 09:11:25
` cross-examination and read his answer as 09:11:27
` he's providing it; is that right? 09:11:28
` MR. LENNON: I think we're going 09:11:30
` down a slippery slope, if you want to, 09:11:31
` for any of us to monitor his eyeballs as 09:11:33
` he is doing it. I don't think there's 09:11:37
` anything inappropriate with him looking 09:11:39
` at the screen as he's giving an answer. 09:11:41
` It's sort of the same thing as his 09:11:42
` listening to the translator do the 09:11:51
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` to listen to what's being recorded. 09:11:55
`BY MR. PALYS: 09:12:25
` Q. Dr. Wong, are you on any medication 09:12:27
`today? 09:12:29
` A. No. 09:12:31
` Q. Did you spend any time preparing for 09:12:46
`today's deposition? 09:12:49
` A. Yes. 09:12:53
` Q. How much time did you take to prepare 09:12:54
`for today's deposition? 09:12:55
` A. I'm not sure. Maybe one days, one 09:12:58
`
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`day. 09:13:02
` Q. And when? What day was that? 09:13:02
` A. On Friday afternoon and Saturday 09:13:08
`morning, last week. 09:13:10
` Q. Okay. So last Friday afternoon and 09:13:13
`then -- 09:13:15
` A. Oh, okay, yes. 09:13:16
` Q. So last Friday afternoon and Saturday 09:13:20
`morning; is that accurate? 09:13:22
` A. Yeah. 09:13:23
` Q. Okay. Did you meet with anyone in 09:13:24
`preparation for your deposition? 09:13:30
` A. What do you refers to "anyone" here? 09:13:42
` Q. Did you meet with any person in 09:13:46
`preparation for your deposition? 09:13:49
` A. Yes. 09:13:52
` Q. Who? 09:13:53
` A. Lawyers. 09:13:54
` Q. Which lawyers? 09:13:55
` A. The lawyers hired by VIS company. 09:13:59
` Q. Do you recall their names? 09:14:06
` A. Jim and Tim. I call him Tim, yeah. 09:14:07
` Q. That's Tim? 09:14:12
` A. Yeah. 09:14:13
`
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` Q. Did you meet with anyone else in 09:14:14
`preparation for your deposition? 09:14:17
` A. Yes. 09:14:21
` Q. Who? 09:14:22
` A. Ann. 09:14:27
` Q. When you say Ann, do you mean Ms. Ann 09:14:27
`Wang? 09:14:30
` A. We call -- we call her Ann. 09:14:35
` Q. Is Ann the person to your left in 09:14:39
`this room? 09:14:41
` A. Yes. 09:14:44
` Q. Okay. And Ann is one of the 09:14:45
`inventors of the VIS patents at issue in these 09:14:50
`IPRs; correct? 09:14:54
` A. Can you define the words "vendors"? 09:15:04
` Q. "Inventor." 09:15:06
` A. Vendor. 09:15:08
` Q. Inventor. I'll repeat. 09:15:12
` And Ann is one of the inventors of 09:15:13
`the VIS patents at issue in these IPRs? 09:15:14
` MR. LENNON: Objection to form. 09:15:21
` You can answer. 09:15:23
` A. Yes. 09:15:28
` Q. In your misinterpretation earlier on, 09:15:31
`
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`the term "vendor" was based on your review of 09:15:33
`what you read in the transcript and not what I 09:15:38
`said; correct? 09:15:40
` A. First, I -- when I listen the 09:15:42
`question, I can't understand -- stand the 09:15:46
`meanings and then I tried on the screen. 09:15:49
` Q. The understanding of the meaning of 09:15:51
`"inventor"? 09:15:54
` A. "Vendor," yes. 09:15:54
` Q. "Vendor"? 09:15:57
` A. Yeah. 09:15:58
` Q. And you saw "vendor" on the -- 09:15:59
` A. On the screen. 09:16:02
` Q. Right. 09:16:03
` A. Yeah. 09:16:04
` Q. Did you review any documents in 09:16:10
`preparation for your declaration? 09:16:11
` A. Yes. 09:16:17
` MR. PALYS: Mary Ann, I just want 09:16:17
` to make sure. I know we are seeing it 09:16:23
` on the realtime, but when we get the 09:16:25
` transcript, I want the timestamps. 09:16:26
` THE REPORTER: Timestamps will be 09:16:40
` on the final transcript. 09:16:40
`
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`BY MR. PALYS: 09:16:27
` Q. What documents did you review in 09:16:41
`preparation for your declaration? 09:16:43
` A. I'm not sure. I don't recall for 09:16:46
`sure. Many documents, including my declaration 09:16:48
`and some prior arts. 09:16:54
` Q. Anything else? 09:16:58
` A. I don't recall. 09:17:00
` Q. Did you meet in person with the 09:17:03
`lawyers Jim and Tim in preparation for your 09:17:08
`deposition today? 09:17:11
` A. Yes. Yes. 09:17:16
` Q. You currently live in China; correct? 09:17:29
` A. Yes. 09:17:34
` Q. Okay. When did you arrive in the 09:17:35
`United States for purposes of this deposition? 09:17:38
` A. Last Thursday. 09:17:42
` Q. I notice you have a piece of paper in 09:18:05
`front of you and you're making notes on it. 09:18:07
` What notes are you making, sir? 09:18:09
` A. Date. 09:18:11
` Q. What's that? 09:18:12
` A. Date, April 8, date here. 09:18:14
` Q. And you made a /D. What does that /D 09:18:17
`
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`mean? 09:18:21
` A. Deposition. 09:18:22
` Q. And what's the symbol that you wrote 09:18:22
`under April 9, 2018? 09:18:26
` Q. Are you writing in Chinese? 09:18:36
` A. Yeah. 09:18:37
` Q. What does that, those two terms mean? 09:18:38
` A. Thursday. 09:18:41
` Q. Thursday? 09:18:41
` A. Yeah. 09:18:43
` MR. PALYS: Okay. I'm going to ask 09:18:45
` the translator to translate those words. 09:18:46
` THE WITNESS: Okay. 09:18:51
` MR. PALYS: Make sure that's 09:18:52
` accurate. 09:18:53
` THE INTERPRETER: "Thursday." 09:18:56
` MR. PALYS: Thank you. Are you 09:18:58
` okay with the translation? 09:19:00
` MR. LENNON: Uh-huh. 09:19:02
` MR. PALYS: Is that a yes? 09:19:04
` MR. LENNON: Yes. 09:19:05
`BY MR. PALYS: 09:19:08
` Q. Did you bring any documents with you 09:19:15
`to help you testify today? 09:19:17
`
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` A. No. 09:19:22
` Q. I'm going to be handing the witness a 09:19:47
`copy of Exhibit 2007. It is a copy of a 09:19:49
`declaration of Brayden J. Wong in support of 09:19:55
`patent owner's response, and it has 95 pages to 09:19:58
`it front and back. I should say it has 96 09:20:04
`pages double-sided, the cover sheet being 09:20:09
`Exhibit 2007. 09:20:12
` (Exhibit No. 2007, previously marked, was 09:20:16
` referenced and indexed.) 09:20:16
` Q. So, Dr. Wong, do you recognize 09:21:25
`Exhibit 2007? 09:21:26
` A. Yes. 09:21:32
` Q. And is this the declaration that you 09:21:34
`provided with respect to the IPR matters 09:21:40
`relating to the VIS patents at issue? 09:21:48
` A. I shall check it. 09:21:52
` Q. Please do. 09:21:55
` A. Yes, it is. 09:23:52
` Q. Is this the only declaration that 09:23:59
`you -- well, let's start over. 09:24:01
` On paragraph 4 of your declaration 09:24:03
`you stated that you were asked to review, and 09:24:09
`then you identify certain patents. And then 09:24:16
`
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`moving on to page 2, between pages 1 and 2 you 09:24:19
`state that the PTAB's institution decisions 09:24:26
`concerning, and then you have a list of U.S. 09:24:30
`patents identified as follows: 7,899,492, 09:24:32
`8,050,711, 8,712,471, 8,903,451, 8,948,814, 09:24:38
`9,118,794, 9,286,853, and 9,355,611; correct? 09:24:52
` A. Correct. 09:25:11
` Q. Those eight U.S. patents that I've 09:25:17
`identified, you understand that those are the 09:25:20
`VIS patents that you are here to testify about 09:25:23
`and what you provided your opinions in 09:25:29
`Exhibit 2007; correct? 09:25:31
` A. Yes. 09:25:37
` Q. Okay. And you understand that those 09:25:38
`patents are patents that have been challenged 09:25:41
`in IPR2017-00870 through 00879; correct? 09:25:45
` A. I'm not sure about the IPR number 09:26:33
`because I did not write it in my declaration. 09:26:36
`I -- I doesn't see -- see the number now. 09:26:44
` Q. Okay. Let me help you. On page 1, 09:26:49
`there's a footnote in your declaration and you 09:26:52
`refer to -- 09:26:55
` A. Yeah, the number, yeah, yeah. 09:26:57
` Q. Let me finish my question, sir, so we 09:27:00
`
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`don't talk over each other, okay? Thank you. 09:27:02
`I appreciate that. 09:27:05
` So in footnote 1, you refer to 09:27:07
`Almeroth, A-L-M-E-R-O-T-H-S, apostrophe S, 09:27:09
`Exhibit 1003 that was submitted in 09:27:19
`IPR2017-00875. Do you see that? 09:27:23
` A. Yes. 09:27:33
` Q. And did you review all of 09:27:33
`Dr. Almeroth's declarations that were submitted 09:27:36
`with respect to the VIS patents? 09:27:39
` A. What mean "Roth" here? 09:27:55
` Q. Sir, your questions are to me. If 09:27:57
`you have a question with my -- my question, you 09:27:58
`can address me and I'll work with the court 09:28:02
`reporter, okay? So do you understand my 09:28:05
`question? 09:28:09
` Sir, my question was, do you 09:28:32
`understand my question? 09:28:33
` I notice you've been reviewing things 09:28:34
`on the realtime transcript -- 09:28:37
` A. Yes. 09:28:39
` Q. -- for some time. So you do 09:28:39
`understand my question? 09:28:43
` A. Yes. 09:28:44
`
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` Q. Can you please answer it? 09:28:44
` A. I -- I'm not sure how read all of 09:28:46
`them. Maybe. But I maybe have -- I have read 09:28:50
`them before, but I'm not -- I -- I don't recall 09:28:57
`it for sure at the present time. 09:29:01
` Q. Okay. Do you understand that you -- 09:29:04
`the eight VIS patents that I identified earlier 09:29:08
`and that you list on page 2 of your declaration 09:29:11
`are at issue in IPR2017-00870 through 00879? 09:29:16
` A. I need the interpreter to translate 09:30:47
`this, this question. 09:30:51
` THE INTERPRETER: Okay. 09:30:54
` Q. What don't you understand about the 09:30:54
`question, sir? You spent about a minute 09:30:56
`reviewing the language on the realtime. What 09:30:59
`specific part of the question do you not 09:31:03
`understand? 09:31:05
` A. I want to understand your question 09:31:08
`accurately. 09:31:10
` Q. Can you help me so I can help 09:31:15
`rephrase the question so you can understand it? 09:31:17
`What part of the question do you not 09:31:21
`understand? 09:31:22
` A. You mean that I cannot use my -- use 09:31:25
`
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`the translator during the deposition? 09:31:27
` Q. You are not in control of the 09:31:30
`translator, sir. You're here to answer 09:31:31
`questions that I provide to you. 09:31:33
` MR. LENNON: Objection. 09:31:36
` Q. If there is a need for a translator, 09:31:39
`your counsel will be here and we'll have that 09:31:40
`discussion. 09:31:43
` My question is simple. If I need to 09:31:43
`rephrase a question so you can understand it, I 09:31:46
`will do that and we will work through this 09:31:49
`together. All I need to know is what don't you 09:31:51
`understand -- 09:31:54
` A. Okay. 09:31:55
` Q. -- about my question. 09:31:55
` MR. LENNON: Let me state an 09:31:56
` objection for the record. If Mr. Wong 09:31:57
` requests the translation of a question, 09:31:59
` he has a right to have it translated, 09:32:01
` not to have it rephrased by counsel 09:32:04
` asking the question. And if counsel 09:32:07
` disagrees with that proposition, that 09:32:11
` wasn't stated in the agreed-upon 09:32:14
` stipulation. 09:32:20
`
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`BY MR. PALYS:
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