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`UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`IPR 2017-00854
`------------------------------)
`APOTEX INC., APOTEX CORP.,
`ARGENTUM PHARMACEUTICALS LLC,
`ACTAVIS ELIZABETH LLC, TEVA
`PHARMACEUTICALS USA, INC., SUN
`PHARMACEUTICAL INDUSTRIES LTD.,
`SUN PHARMACEUTICAL INDUSTRIES,
`INC., and SUN PHARMA GLOBAL FZE,
` Petitioners,
` PATENT NO.
` vs. 9,187,405
`NOVARTIS A.G.,
` Patent Owner.
`------------------------------)
`
` VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF
` WILLIAM J. JUSKO, Ph.D.
` New York, New York
` April 10, 2018
`
`Reported by:
`Linda Salzman
`JOB NO. 140364
`
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`APOTEX ET AL. - EXHIBIT 1064
`Apotex Inc. et al. v. Novartis AG
`IPR2017-00854
`
`
`
`UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`IPR 2017-00854
`------------------------------)
`APOTEX INC., APOTEX CORP.,
`ARGENTUM PHARMACEUTICALS LLC,
`ACTAVIS ELIZABETH LLC, TEVA
`PHARMACEUTICALS USA, INC., SUN
`PHARMACEUTICAL INDUSTRIES LTD.,
`SUN PHARMACEUTICAL INDUSTRIES,
`INC., and SUN PHARMA GLOBAL FZE,
` Petitioners,
` PATENT NO.
` vs. 9,187,405
`NOVARTIS A.G.,
` Patent Owner.
`------------------------------)
`
` VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF
` WILLIAM J. JUSKO, Ph.D.
` New York, New York
` April 10, 2018
`
`Reported by:
`Linda Salzman
`JOB NO. 140364
`
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`APOTEX ET AL. - EXHIBIT 1064
`Apotex Inc. et al. v. Novartis AG
`IPR2017-00854
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`Page 2
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` April 10, 2018
` 9:00 a.m.
`
` Videotaped Deposition of
` WILLIAM J. JUSKO, Ph.D., the witness
` herein, held at the offices of
` Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher, 200 Park
` Avenue, New York, New York, pursuant
` to Notice, before Linda Salzman, a
` Notary Public of the State of New
` York.
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`A P P E A R A N C E S:
`
` WILSON SONSINI GOODRICH & ROSATI
` Attorneys for Petitioner Apotex
` 701 Fifth Avenue, Suite 5100
` Seattle, Washington 98104
` BY: JAD MILLS, ESQ.
`
` GIBSON, DUNN & CRUTCHER
` Attorneys for Patent Owner
` 200 Park Avenue
` New York, New York 10166
` BY: ROBERT W. TRENCHARD, ESQ.
` JANE M. LOVE, Ph.D., ESQ.
` ANDREW BLYTHE, ESQ.
`
` Also Present:
` LARRY MOSKOWITZ, Videographer
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` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Good morning.
` We are now on the record.
` This is the start of DVD No. 1
` of the video-recorded deposition of
` William J. Jusko, Ph.D., in the matter
` Apotex Inc., et al., versus Novartis
` A.G., in the United States Patent and
` Trademark Office, before the Patent
` Trial and Appeal Board.
` This deposition is being held at
` Gibson Dunn, 200 Park Avenue, New
` York, New York, on April 10, 2018 at
` approximately 9:05 a.m.
` My name is Larry Moskowitz, and
` I'm the legal video specialist with
` TSG Reporting, headquartered at 747
` Third Avenue, New York, New York. The
` court reporter is Linda Salzman, also
` in association with TSG Reporting.
` Will counsel please introduce
` themselves for the record.
` MR. MILLS: Jad Mills,
` representing Apotex Inc. and Apotex
` Corp., Petitioners in this matter,
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` W. Jusko, Ph.D.
` with the law firm of Wilson Sonsini
` Goodrich & Rosati.
` MR. TRENCHARD: Robert
` Trenchard, and with me is my partner
` Jane Love and my associate Andrew
` Blythe, and we are from Gibson Dunn.
` We represent the Patent Owner,
` Novartis.
` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Will the
` reporter please administer the oath.
`W I L L I A M J. J U S K O,
` called as a witness, having been duly
` sworn by a Notary Public, was examined
` and testified as follows:
`EXAMINATION BY
`MR. MILLS:
` Q. Good morning, Dr. Jusko.
` A. Good morning.
` Q. Have you been deposed before?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Approximately how many times?
` A. Around six, give or take plus
`one.
` Q. How long has it been since you
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` W. Jusko, Ph.D.
`were deposed about?
` A. About one month.
` Q. Okay. So you probably remember
`the ground rules. We will do a very brief
`refresher just to make sure everything is
`clear in your mind.
` As in the past, today your
`deposition is under oath, the same as if
`you were appearing in front of a judge and
`a jury. Do you understand that?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And because the court reporter
`is trying to write down everything that we
`say, it's important that we don't speak
`over one another and that you give your
`attorney a chance to make any objections
`he might need to make before you give an
`answer to my question.
` Do you understand?
` A. Yes.
` Q. It's also important that any --
`all of your answers to my questions are
`given verbally so that the court reporter
`can write them down.
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` Do you understand that?
` A. Yes.
` Q. If at any point you don't
`understand the question that I'm asking,
`will you ask for clarification so we can
`make sure that the record is clear?
` A. Fine.
` Q. If you don't ask for
`clarification, then is it fair for me to
`assume that you understood the question?
` A. I'm not sure on that.
` Q. Okay.
` Will you agree, Dr. Jusko, to do
`your best to, if you don't understand the
`question, to indicate what it is that you
`don't understand?
` A. Certainly.
` Q. Is there any reason, Dr. Jusko,
`that you cannot provide full and truthful
`testimony today?
` A. No. I can help.
` Q. Dr. Jusko, what did you do to
`prepare for the deposition today?
` MR. TRENCHARD: You can describe
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` that in general terms, just don't go
` into the content of any communications
` you had with counsel.
` A. I read documents, the
`literature, and I conferred with
`attorneys.
` Q. Did you have some meetings with
`the attorneys?
` A. Yes.
` Q. How many meetings did you have
`with the attorneys?
` A. You mean number of days or times
`in between breaks?
` Q. Number of days.
` A. Three.
` Q. And that was since signing your
`fourth declaration and in preparing for
`the depo; is that correct?
` A. Not quite.
` Q. Okay. Can you explain to me
`what is wrong with the statement?
` MR. TRENCHARD: Objection to
` form.
` You can answer.
`
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` W. Jusko, Ph.D.
` A. I think there was an abbreviated
`update declaration regarding the dates for
`which we could document the typical body
`weights of adult women, so I had conferred
`with them prior to that brief declaration
`and then subsequently.
` Q. Is it correct that your three
`deposition preparation meetings with
`Novartis's attorneys took place both
`before and after the weight updating
`declaration?
` MR. TRENCHARD: Objection to
` form.
` You can answer.
` A. Yes.
` Q. How long was the most recent
`meeting?
` A. Part of the day yesterday.
` Q. That was Monday?
` A. If today is Tuesday, it would be
`Monday.
` Q. And how long did that meeting
`last?
` A. I came in the afternoon and it
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`lasted until early evening.
` Q. Okay. Was that with Mr. Blythe?
` A. Pardon?
` Q. Was that with Mr. Blythe?
` A. For the most part.
` Q. Did you meet with anyone else
`yesterday other than Mr. Blythe?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Was that attorneys Trenchard and
`Love?
` A. Yes, I met with Dr. Love. I met
`with Mr. Trenchard.
` Q. Other than those three attorneys
`who are in the room right now, did you
`meet with anybody else yesterday for your
`deposition preparation?
` A. No.
` Q. Would you estimate you spent
`about six hours meeting with attorneys
`yesterday?
` A. Sounds about right.
` Q. Other than your time with the
`attorneys yesterday, did you spend other
`time yesterday preparing for your
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`deposition?
` A. I was reading documents on my
`own.
` Q. How much time on your own did
`you spend yesterday preparing for the
`deposition?
` A. Perhaps two hours.
` Q. Altogether, you think you spent
`about eight hours yesterday preparing for
`the deposition, correct?
` A. That adds up.
` Q. What documents did you review
`yesterday?
` A. Oh, there was quite a few.
`Probably some that were referenced in my
`declaration.
` Q. Did you review yesterday any
`documents that were not referenced in your
`declaration?
` A. Yes.
` Q. What documents were those?
` A. I read the transcript from Dr.
`Steinman.
` Q. Was that a rough transcript or a
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`final transcript?
` A. I'm not aware of the difference.
` Q. If the final transcript issued
`this morning, then you must have read the
`rough transcript, correct?
` MR. TRENCHARD: Objection to
` form.
` You can answer.
` A. I read the transcript that I had
`available to me yesterday morning.
` Q. Did you read the whole
`transcript?
` A. I skimmed through it.
` Q. Why did you read the transcript?
` MR. TRENCHARD: You can answer
` that, but in doing so be careful not
` to talk about any communications you
` had with counsel. So if you can
` answer without talking about those
` communications, by all means do so.
` A. It was of interest to see the
`questions you posed and the kinds of
`responses Dr. Steinman provided.
` Q. Other than Dr. -- the rough
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`transcript of Dr. Steinman's deposition,
`did you review any other documents that
`were not referenced in your declaration?
` A. Later in the day I briefly saw
`Dr. Lublin's transcript as well.
` Q. That was also a rough
`transcript?
` MR. TRENCHARD: Objection to
` form.
` You can answer.
` A. If you say so.
` Q. And why did you review Dr.
`Lublin's transcript?
` MR. TRENCHARD: Same caution
` with respect to your answer for Dr.
` Steinman, but you can answer subject
` to that caution.
` A. Again, to see what questions you
`posed and kinds of responses he provided.
` Q. Other than the rough deposition
`transcripts of Drs. Steinman and Lublin,
`did you review any other documents that
`were not referenced in your declaration?
` A. I'm not sure, because I have my
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`own articles of interest regarding the
`drug and they're not relevant to the case.
`I perhaps looked at them because I'm
`interested in this drug.
` Q. What articles were those?
` A. Oh, more recent publications on
`the drug.
` Q. Publications published after
`what year?
` MR. TRENCHARD: Objection to
` form.
` You can answer.
` A. Well, publications in the last
`three or four years.
` Q. So in addition to the rough
`deposition transcripts of Drs. Steinman
`and Lublin, you reviewed publications
`regarding Fingolimod that were published
`from 2014 and after?
` A. I glanced at them, yes.
` Q. Which ones did you look at?
` A. Oh, I can't remember now.
` Q. Can you remember any of them?
` A. One had to do with drug
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` W. Jusko, Ph.D.
`penetration into the brain. It was done
`by a group of investigators where one of
`them was Meindert Danhof, because I know
`him personally. I wanted to see what
`research he had done.
` Q. Do you recall any of the others?
` A. Not really, no.
` Q. These post-2014 publications
`that you reviewed yesterday, did you
`review those during your meetings with
`counsel?
` A. No.
` Q. So this was part of your two
`hours outside your meetings with counsel,
`correct?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And when we've been talking
`about things that you read that were not
`referenced in your declaration, we're
`talking about your fourth declaration,
`correct?
` MR. TRENCHARD: Objection to
` form.
` You can answer.
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` A. I've sort of lost track on the
`number of depositions. Let's say, what
`number is the body weight one?
` Q. Let's try to clarify that.
` And so your first declaration
`was the one that you filed before the case
`was instituted. Do you recall that?
` A. I recall first declaration, but
`I don't exactly recall how it relates to
`the timing of the case.
` Q. It was a shorter one compared to
`your second declaration, you remember
`that?
` A. I believe the first one was a
`very short one, yes.
` Q. And then your second one was
`very -- much thicker, correct?
` MR. TRENCHARD: Objection to
` form.
` You can answer.
` A. That sounds about right.
` Q. And then your third one was
`having to do with some, just talking about
`references and things like that, right?
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`It wasn't focused on the substance of your
`testimony. Do you recall that?
` MR. TRENCHARD: Objection to
` form.
` You can answer.
` A. Sort of, but I don't quite -- I
`can't be that specific.
` Q. And your fourth declaration is
`the one that you completed in March of
`this year; is that correct?
` A. Are you referring to the fourth
`declaration being my discussion of Dr.
`Benet's calculations?
` Q. Yes.
` A. Okay. That's number 4, all
`right.
` Q. And then the fifth declaration
`is where you indicate that you checked
`whether American women on average started
`weighing more before 2006 and into the
`2006 timeframe, correct?
` A. That's correct.
` Q. And you determined that the
`average weight of the American woman had
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`not fluctuated significantly from the late
`1990s until the mid to late 2000s,
`correct?
` MR. TRENCHARD: Objection to
` form.
` You can answer.
` A. There were specific dates for
`both those references, so whatever the
`dates were, they were in concordance.
` Q. So now that we know that your
`fourth declaration is the one where you
`responded to Dr. Benet, when we've been
`answering questions about documents you
`reviewed that were not in your
`declaration, you're talking about
`references that are not mentioned in your
`declaration responding to Dr. Benet,
`correct?
` MR. TRENCHARD: Objection to
` form.
` You can answer.
` A. I guess that's what we were
`talking about, yes.
` Q. Okay. So we have the rough
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`Steinman deposition transcript, the rough
`Lublin deposition transcript, and
`post-2014 publications.
` Is there anything else?
` A. No, that's all.
` Q. So other than those three
`exceptions, every document that you looked
`at in preparation for your deposition
`today was a document that is expressly
`referenced in the four corners of your
`declaration responding to Dr. Benet,
`correct?
` MR. TRENCHARD: Objection to
` form.
` You can answer.
` A. You're being highly specific and
`I'm not sure I can be quite so clear. I
`told you the best of my memory but it
`could be faulty.
` Q. So you're not sure what you
`looked at, is that what you're saying?
` MR. TRENCHARD: Objection to
` form.
` You can answer.
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` A. I'm fairly sure, but I'm not
`positive. Your enumeration of them is
`complete.
` Q. Did you review any documents
`yesterday that you had not previously
`reviewed?
` MR. TRENCHARD: Objection to
` form, but you can answer.
` A. There were stacks of documents
`on the table that I sort of leafed through
`that pertained to Fingolimod, but I didn't
`look at them very carefully.
` Q. Were any of those documents ones
`that you had not reviewed before?
` A. Possibly.
` Q. So which documents had you not
`reviewed before?
` MR. TRENCHARD: Objection to
` form.
` You can answer.
` A. That's impossible to say. I
`flipped through the pages, and if it
`didn't pertain to what I was interested, I
`didn't look at it.
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` W. Jusko, Ph.D.
` Q. So why were you flipping through
`pages of documents you'd never seen
`before?
` MR. TRENCHARD: Objection to
` form.
` You can answer.
` A. They were documents assembled in
`relation to Fingolimod, and the drug
`fascinates me, so I typically read as much
`as I can about drugs or therapeutic
`situations when I can.
` Q. So this was a stack of documents
`that Novartis's attorneys brought to your
`deposition preparation meeting that you'd
`never seen before, correct?
` MR. TRENCHARD: Objection to
` form.
` You can answer.
` A. Well, I don't think they were
`brought in reference to my preparation.
`They were probably there because of other
`witnesses in this case, but I don't know.
` Q. So you think you might have been
`reviewing documents from Dr. Steinman?
`
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` W. Jusko, Ph.D.
` MR. TRENCHARD: Objection to
` form.
` You can answer.
` A. I would not know who they're
`relevant to, but it could be.
` Q. So the documents you leafed
`through, what were they about?
` A. Oh, I recall somewhat vaguely
`some earlier studies of Fingolimod. Some
`were descriptions of multiple sclerosis.
` Q. Please tell me more generally
`what was the subject matter of the earlier
`studies of Fingolimod.
` A. They were the early studies
`typically done by the Japanese
`investigators when they were first
`investigating the properties of the drug
`for treatment as an immunosuppressant.
` Q. These were references that you
`had not reviewed at the time you wrote
`your five declarations in the case,
`correct?
` MR. TRENCHARD: Objection to
` form.
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` W. Jusko, Ph.D.
` You can answer.
` A. Actually, some of them, I
`believe, were references that I had cited
`previously in my two publications on
`Fingolimod, so I said oh, a-ha, I remember
`that.
` Q. Which references were the ones
`you had previously cited?
` MR. TRENCHARD: Objection to
` form.
` You can answer.
` A. You'd need to give me my
`publications and I can go through the
`references and I might remember which ones
`they are, but right now I can't.
` Q. So you think these are
`references you cited in articles you
`published in journals but that you did not
`cite in any of your five declarations in
`this case, correct?
` A. Quite likely.
` Q. How long did you spend leafing
`through the stack of Fingolimod materials
`that Novartis's attorneys brought to your
`
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` W. Jusko, Ph.D.
`deposition preparation meeting that were
`not cited in your five declarations?
` A. I don't think they brought them
`to my preparation. They were simply in
`the room when I arrived.
` Q. Where were you meeting?
` A. In conference room C on the,
`might be 57th floor.
` Q. Okay. And that was a conference
`room that had been arranged for your
`deposition preparation meeting yesterday,
`correct?
` MR. TRENCHARD: Objection to
` form.
` You can answer.
` A. I don't know about arrangements.
`It was just the room I was directed to.
` Q. When you got there, did it look
`like you were crashing a different meeting
`other than your deposition preparation
`meeting?
` MR. TRENCHARD: Objection to
` form.
` A. I can't say either way.
`
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` W. Jusko, Ph.D.
` Q. Did Novartis's attorneys tell
`you not to read the documents that they
`left on the table in your deposition
`preparation conference room?
` MR. TRENCHARD: Okay, that's
` calling for a work product
` communication, so please don't answer
` that question, Dr. Jusko. Okay.
` I'm instructing you not to
` answer that question.
` A. I'm not answering that.
` MR. TRENCHARD: Thank you.
` Q. And that's actually something I
`should have covered before. So when
`Novartis's attorney makes an objection,
`you are still obligated to answer the
`question. If he gives you an instruction
`not to answer, then you need to tell me if
`you're following the instruction, which
`you just did.
` A. Okay.
` Q. So until you tell me that you're
`following his instruction, I'm going to
`just wait on you to answer the question.
`
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` W. Jusko, Ph.D.
` A. I see.
` Q. But if there is an objection
`where there's no instruction not to
`answer, you need to answer the question
`regardless whether he tells you can answer
`the question or not, unless he tells you
`not to and you decide to follow the
`instruction.
` A. Okay.
` Q. Does that make sense?
` A. It certainly does.
` Q. Okay. Okay, so we have a stack
`of papers that were sitting on the table
`in your deposition preparation conference
`room that you leafed through, we have
`post-2014 publications about Fingolimod
`that you went out and found on your own
`after your preparation with the attorneys,
`and we have the Steinman and Lublin rough
`deposition transcripts; is that correct?
` A. Your reciting of your list is
`correct, yes.
` Q. Is there anything else?
` A. Anything else for what?
`
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` W. Jusko, Ph.D.
` Q. That you reviewed yesterday that
`was not already cited in your fourth
`declaration?
` MR. TRENCHARD: Objection to
` form.
` You can answer.
` A. Well, that list is rather vague,
`so it's probably correct.
` Q. Can you make the list less
`vague?
` A. No, because there was many
`things that I just glanced at that didn't
`register with me.
` Q. Okay. Were there any particular
`things that you looked at or glanced at
`yesterday that did register with you?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Were any of those things that
`were not cited in your declaration?
` MR. TRENCHARD: Objection to
` form.
` You can answer.
` A. There were ancillary scientific
`information to my scientific declaration.
`
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` W. Jusko, Ph.D.
`I didn't cite them because it wasn't quite
`necessary.
` Q. So there were ancillary
`scientific publications that you looked at
`yesterday that you had not cited in any of
`your five declarations, correct?
` MR. TRENCHARD: Objection to
` form.
` You can answer.
` A. Yes.
` Q. And how many of those were
`there?
` A. A couple. A few.
` Q. What time of day did you look at
`those?
` A. I'm sorry?
` Q. What time of day were you
`looking at those few ancillary uncited in
`your declaration scientific articles?
` A. Late in the afternoon.
` Q. Okay.
` Dr. Jusko, did you come to the
`deposition today with additional testimony
`prepared to supplement the testimony that
`
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` W. Jusko, Ph.D.
`you've given in your five previous
`declarations?
` MR. TRENCHARD: You can
` certainly answer that question. Just
` be careful as always not to disclose
` any communications with counsel.
` A. I have made a declaration. I'm
`prepared to discuss any questions you have
`about my declaration. Perhaps additional
`information will come up.
` Q. Have you prepared additional
`testimony that you're intending to add to
`your declarations today?
` A. I didn't know that was possible,
`so no.
` Q. You agree, Dr. Jusko, that
`you're limited to the testimony that you
`provided in your declarations, correct?
` MR. TRENCHARD: Objection to
` form.
` You can answer.
` A. I am going to be responsive to
`your questions. I don't know that I'm
`going to be saying anything further.
`
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` W. Jusko, Ph.D.
` Q. You agree that it wouldn't have
`been appropriate for you to hold back
`information when you were submitting your
`declarations that was relevant to your
`testimony?
` MR. TRENCHARD: Objection to
` form.
` You can answer.
` A. I don't think that would be
`appropriate.
` Q. Okay. So we've covered Monday.
` You said you had a prior meeting
`with Novartis's attorneys. When did that
`take place?
` A. Roughly two weeks ago.
` Q. Okay. Do you remember what day
`of the week it was?
` A. Let me think. Actually, I
`don't.
` Q. Was that an in-person meeting?
` A. Yes.
` Q. In between the two in-person
`meetings, were there any non-in-person
`meetings, for instance, a teleconference
`
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` W. Jusko, Ph.D.
`with counsel in preparation for your
`deposition?
` MR. TRENCHARD: Objection to
` form.
` You can answer.
` A. I'm not sure. I believe the
`weight issue was handled entirely by
`email.
` Q. Okay.
` Other than the weight issue
`being handled by email, you didn't have
`any other communications with counsel in
`preparation for your deposition between
`your most recent and your second most
`recent in-person meeting?
` A. I don't think so.
` Q. And that meeting two weeks ago
`also took place here at Gibson Dunn?
` A. Yes, it did.
` Q. How long did that meeting last?
` A. Much of two days.
` Q. Two full days?
` A. Not really two full days because
`I left early on the second day.
`
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` W. Jusko, Ph.D.
` Q. So today is the 10th. Two weeks
`ago from today was Tuesday the 27th, and
`your declaration was served the prior
`Friday on the 23rd.
` Does that refresh your
`recollection about when it was that you
`came down to New York City to meet for two
`days with Novartis's attorneys?
` MR. TRENCHARD: Objection to
` form.
` You can answer.
` A. So if I -- if my fourth
`declaration was signed the 23rd, it was
`sometime after that.
` Q. So you signed your declaration
`on Friday, and you came down the following
`week, what day was it that you came down
`and spent two days in New York City?
` A. I don't remember. Some simple
`things I simply can't remember.
` Q. It happens to all of us from
`time to time.
` How did you come to New York for
`that meeting two weeks ago?
`
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` W. Jusko, Ph.D.
` A. I flew using JetBlue to JFK for
`the first time. I usually fly in and out
`of LaGuardia using Delta.
` Q. How did that go?
` MR. TRENCHARD: Objection to
` form. Relevance.
` But you can answer.
` A. I was lost in the terminal in
`JFK. I can't believe what long walk they
`made me take just to get to a taxi.
` Q. So earlier you said you had
`three meetings. Were two of those
`meetings taking place on two consecutive
`days in this trip that you're describing
`to New York City?
` A. Yes. That JetBlue JFK trip was
`for two consecutive days, yes.
` Q. And those two consecutive days
`constitute two of the three days you said
`you spent preparing with Novartis's
`attorneys for the deposition, correct?
` A. That's correct.
` Q. I'm trying to find out if there
`is an additional day somewhere that we
`
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` W. Jusko, Ph.D.
`haven't already talked about.
` MR. TRENCHARD: Objection to
` form.
` You can answer.
` A. I don't believe so.
` Q. Okay. So on the first day in
`New York City on your JFK trip, how long
`did you spend with the attorneys?
` A. I didn't get your question.
` Q. Your first day in New York City,
`the trip when you went through JFK
`Airport, how long did you spend with
`Novartis's attorneys?
` A. I remember they started at 10
`o'clock each morning. I think the first
`day perhaps went to 6 o'clock. The second
`day, it only went to maybe 3:30.
` Q. So on the first day you spent
`about eight hours with the attorneys?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And on the second day, you spent
`five and a half hours with the attorneys?
` A. Yes.
` Q. So I have eight, eight, and
`
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` W. Jusko, Ph.D.
`five-and-a-half hours of deposition
`preparation; is that correct?
` MR. TRENCHARD: Objection to
` form.
` You can answer.
` A. For those two days, I think --
`that's what you're referring to?
` Q. The three days.
` A. Oh, the three days.
` Q. You had eight, five-and-a-half
`and then eight again on the most recent
`day?
` A. That sounds right.
` Q. So that's about 21-and-a-half,
`22 hours all together, correct?
` MR. TRENCHARD: Objection to
` form.
` You can answer.
` A. If I can trust your arithmetic.
` Q. Let's have you confirm it, eight
`plus eight?
` A. 16.
` Q. Then five-and-a-half?
` A. 21-and-a-half.
`
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` W. Jusko, Ph.D.
` Q. To be a pharmacologist,
`pharmacokinetist, you kind of have to be a
`math guy, too, right?
` MR. TRENCHARD: Objection to
` form.
` You can answer.
` A. Often I use mathematics.
` Q. On your first day of meeting
`with Novartis's attorneys, did you spend
`additional time on your own preparing for
`the deposition outside the eight hours you
`spent with Novartis's attorneys?
` A. I probably was looking through
`the documents, you know, before the
`meeting.
` Q. Approximately how much time did
`you spend on your own on that first day?
` A. Oh, at least another two hours.
` Q. And then what about on the
`second day, how much time did you spend on
`your own in addition to the time you s
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