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`UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`IPR 2017-00854
`------------------------------)
`APOTEX INC., APOTEX CORP.,
`ARGENTUM PHARMACEUTICALS LLC,
`ACTAVIS ELIZABETH LLC, TEVA
`PHARMACEUTICALS USA, INC., SUN
`PHARMACEUTICAL INDUSTRIES LTD.,
`SUN PHARMACEUTICAL INDUSTRIES,
`INC., and SUN PHARMA GLOBAL FZE,
` Petitioners,
` PATENT NO.
` vs. 9,187,405
`NOVARTIS A.G.,
` Patent Owner.
`------------------------------)
`
` VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF
` FRED D. LUBLIN, M.D.
` New York, New York
` April 6, 2018
`
`Reported by:
`Linda Salzman
`JOB NO. 140362
`
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`APOTEX ET AL. - EXHIBIT 1062
`Apotex Inc. et al. v. Novartis AG
`IPR2017-00854
`
`
`
`UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`IPR 2017-00854
`------------------------------)
`APOTEX INC., APOTEX CORP.,
`ARGENTUM PHARMACEUTICALS LLC,
`ACTAVIS ELIZABETH LLC, TEVA
`PHARMACEUTICALS USA, INC., SUN
`PHARMACEUTICAL INDUSTRIES LTD.,
`SUN PHARMACEUTICAL INDUSTRIES,
`INC., and SUN PHARMA GLOBAL FZE,
` Petitioners,
` PATENT NO.
` vs. 9,187,405
`NOVARTIS A.G.,
` Patent Owner.
`------------------------------)
`
` VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF
` FRED D. LUBLIN, M.D.
` New York, New York
` April 6, 2018
`
`Reported by:
`Linda Salzman
`JOB NO. 140362
`
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`APOTEX ET AL. - EXHIBIT 1062
`Apotex Inc. et al. v. Novartis AG
`IPR2017-00854
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`Page 2
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` April 6, 2018
` 9:02 a.m.
`
` Videotaped Deposition of FRED
`D. LUBLIN, M.D., the witness herein,
`held at the offices of Gibson, Dunn
`& Crutcher, 200 Park Avenue, New
`York, New York, pursuant to Notice,
`before Linda Salzman, a Notary
`Public of the State of New York.
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`A P P E A R A N C E S:
`
` WILSON SONSINI GOODRICH & ROSATI
` Attorneys for Petitioner Apotex
` 701 Fifth Avenue
` Seattle, Washington 98104
` BY: JAD MILLS, ESQ.
`
` GIBSON, DUNN & CRUTCHER
` Attorneys for Patent Owner
` 200 Park Avenue
` New York, New York 10166
` BY: ROBERT TRENCHARD, ESQ.
` JANE LOVE, Ph.D., ESQ.
`
` Also Present:
` LARRY MOSKOWITZ, Videographer
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` F. Lublin, M.D.
` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Good morning.
`We are now on the record.
` This is the start of DVD No. 1
`of the video-recorded deposition of
`Fred D. Lublin, M.D., in the matter of
`Apotex Inc., et al., versus Novartis
`A.G., in the United States Patent and
`Trademark Office, before the Patent
`Trial and Appeal Board.
` This deposition is being held at
`Gibson Dunn, 200 Park Avenue, New
`York, New York, on April 6, 2018, at
`approximately 9:02 a.m.
` My name is Larry Moskowitz, and
`I'm the legal video specialist with
`TSG Reporting, headquartered at 747
`Third Avenue, New York, New York. The
`court reporter is Linda Salzman, also
`in association with TSG Reporting.
` Will counsel please introduce
`themselves for the record.
` MR. MILLS: This is Jad Mills,
`with the law firm Wilson Sonsini
`Goodrich & Rosati, representing Apotex
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` F. Lublin, M.D.
` Inc. and Apotex Corp., Petitioners in
` this proceeding.
` MR. TRENCHARD: Robert
` Trenchard, and with me is my partner,
` Jane Love. We're from Gibson Dunn &
` Crutcher. We represent the Patent
` Owner, Novartis.
` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Will the
` reporter please administer the oath.
`F R E D D. L U B L I N,
` called as a witness, having been duly
` sworn by a Notary Public, was examined
` and testified as follows:
`EXAMINATION BY
`MR. MILLS:
` Q. Good morning, Dr. Lublin.
` A. Good morning.
` Q. You've been deposed previously
`in this proceeding, correct?
` A. Yes.
` Q. You remember all of the same
`rules from the prior depositions apply to
`this deposition?
` A. I do.
`
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` Q. And we will do our best not to
`speak over one another so that the court
`reporter can take everything down.
` A. Okay.
` Q. And you understand that you are
`under oath during this proceeding,
`obligated to tell the truth, the same as
`if were you sitting in court in front of a
`judge?
` A. I do.
` Q. Dr. Lublin, you have submitted
`four declarations in this case, correct?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And this is your third
`deposition?
` A. I believe it's my second. Oh,
`no, third. You're right. Third.
` Q. And you signed your fourth
`declaration on March 23, 2018, correct?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Couple of weeks ago, right?
` A. Yes.
` MR. TRENCHARD: Objection to
` form.
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` F. Lublin, M.D.
` Q. When did you first find out that
`you would be submitting a fourth
`declaration?
` A. Don't recall.
` Q. How long before you submitted
`your fourth declaration did the
`possibility of submitting another
`declaration come to your attention?
` A. I don't recall the exact timing.
` Q. Was it more than a week?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Was it more than two weeks?
` A. I expect it was, yes.
` Q. Was it more than three weeks?
` A. Now you're getting beyond my
`recall.
` Q. Who contacted you to discuss the
`possibility of filing a fourth
`declaration?
` A. Counsel.
` Q. Which counsel?
` A. Both.
` Q. Was this a phone call?
` A. Probably an email.
`
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` Q. Did you do the first draft of
`your fourth declaration?
` A. What do you mean by "do"?
` Q. Were you the first person to put
`on paper the concepts that you thought you
`might include in your fourth declaration?
` A. No.
` Q. Counsel was the first one to do
`that, correct?
` A. After we had discussions, yes.
` Q. So you had a discussion with
`counsel. Based on that discussion,
`counsel wrote the first draft of your
`declaration, correct?
` A. Yes.
` Q. After that, did you exchange
`drafts back and forth?
` A. We did.
` Q. How many drafts did you exchange
`back and forth?
` A. I don't recall.
` Q. Was it more than two?
` A. Probably.
` Q. Who put the citations to
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`evidence in your fourth declaration?
` A. Counsel.
` Q. Did you add any citations
`anywhere in your declaration?
` A. Did I add them?
` Q. Did you personally add, you
`know, point to something and say I want to
`cite this here, something that wasn't
`already cited?
` A. I don't recall.
` Q. Did you go through your
`declaration to look for places where a
`citation was not there, maybe there should
`have been a citation?
` A. It's possible. I don't have a
`specific recollection, but it's something
`I would do.
` Q. In general, you would review
`your declaration and look for places where
`there was an unsupported statement with no
`citation, correct?
` A. In general, I review the
`declaration to assure that it conveyed my
`thoughts and the support for those
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`thoughts.
` Q. And to the best of your
`recollection, did you follow that practice
`with your fourth declaration?
` A. As best I can recall.
` Q. Sitting here today, are you
`satisfied that you cited in your
`declaration the evidence in the case that
`you wanted to cite to support your
`testimony?
` MR. TRENCHARD: Objection to
` form.
` You can answer.
` A. Yes.
` Q. What did you do to prepare for
`your deposition today?
` MR. TRENCHARD: Usual caution
` about not going into the substance of
` communications with counsel, but you
` can answer that in general terms.
` A. I reviewed my declarations. I
`reviewed the '405 Patent. I reviewed the
`references that are cited and have been
`discussed.
`
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` Q. And when you say "my
`declarations," are you referring to all
`four of your declarations?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Other than your four
`declarations in this case, did you review
`any other declarations in preparation for
`your deposition?
` A. Yes.
` Q. What other declarations did you
`review?
` A. I reviewed the declaration of
`Dr. Benet, the declaration of Dr. Jusko,
`declaration of Dr. Steinman, and the
`declaration of Dr. Chun.
` Q. Did you review more than one
`Benet declaration?
` MR. TRENCHARD: Objection to
` form.
` You can answer.
` A. I can only recall one.
` Q. Did you review Dr. Benet's
`deposition transcript?
` A. I did.
`
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` F. Lublin, M.D.
` Q. Did you review more than one
`Jusko declaration?
` A. For this deposition, I reviewed
`his last.
` Q. Was that one also signed on or
`about March 23, 2018?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And that's the only Jusko
`declaration that you reviewed in
`preparation for this deposition?
` A. Yes.
` Q. How many Steinman declarations
`did you review in preparation for your
`deposition?
` A. I reviewed the last, the one
`that was dated around that same period in
`March. And I reviewed a second
`declaration he had. I'm trying to think
`whether I reviewed the first for this
`deposition. And I don't recall.
` Q. When you say you reviewed an
`additional Steinman declaration other than
`the March declaration, was the other
`declaration that you reviewed thick or
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`thin?
` MR. TRENCHARD: Objection to
` form.
` You can answer.
` A. I believe it was his second, and
`it was quite thin.
` Q. Thin?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Was it just having to do with
`exhibits?
` A. I don't recall the details of
`it.
` Q. But you didn't review it as a
`substantive declaration from Dr. Steinman?
` MR. TRENCHARD: Objection to
` form.
` You can answer.
` A. I didn't form an opinion on it.
` Q. Why did you review the second
`Steinman declaration?
` A. Because I'd seen that there had
`been a second Steinman declaration.
` Q. And you hadn't previously
`reviewed the second Steinman declaration?
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` A. As best I can recall.
` Q. But you had previously reviewed
`the first Steinman declaration?
` A. I have.
` Q. So you didn't review it again
`because you were already familiar with it?
` MR. TRENCHARD: Objection to
` form.
` You can answer.
` A. I just didn't review it again
`because I was looking at the third.
` Q. Prior to this deposition, you
`have also reviewed additional Jusko
`declarations, correct?
` MR. TRENCHARD: Objection to
` form.
` You can answer.
` A. I believe so.
` Q. How many Jusko declarations have
`you reviewed in total?
` A. Don't recall.
` Q. Did you review your prior
`deposition transcripts in preparation for
`this deposition?
`
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` F. Lublin, M.D.
` A. Yes.
` Q. Which deposition transcripts did
`you review?
` A. All of them.
` Q. Other than the declarations from
`Drs. Benet, Jusko, Steinman, Chun and
`yourself, did you review any other
`declarations from any other person?
` A. Not that I recall.
` Q. Did you speak with anyone other
`than Attorneys Trenchard and Love in
`preparation for your deposition today?
` A. No.
` Q. Did you, in fact, speak with
`Attorneys Trenchard and Love in
`preparation for your deposition today?
` A. Yes.
` Q. When did that take place?
` A. We had, I believe, two meetings
`and several phone calls.
` Q. When did the first deposition
`preparation discussion take place?
` A. I don't recall the first date.
` Q. Was it within the last week?
`
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` A. The first? Are you separating
`out deposition preparation from
`preparation of the declaration?
` Q. Yes. Right now I'm asking about
`after you submitted your declaration on
`March 23rd, you were in communications
`with counsel after that, not what you
`talked about, but when the next
`communication occurred?
` A. I believe March 30th.
` Q. Was that a phone call or an
`in-person meeting?
` A. In-person meeting.
` Q. And who was present?
` A. Both counsel.
` Q. That's Attorneys Love and
`Trenchard, correct?
` A. Yes.
` Q. How long did that meeting take
`place?
` A. It was all day.
` Q. Did that take place here at
`Gibson Dunn?
` A. Yes.
`
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` F. Lublin, M.D.
` Q. And when was your next
`communication with counsel?
` A. We had another half-day meeting
`or longer. It was last Tuesday. This
`past Tuesday.
` Q. April 3rd?
` A. Yes.
` Q. You said that was about four
`hours?
` A. No, it was longer than four
`hours, but it started in the afternoon.
` Q. About six hours?
` A. That's about right.
` Q. And for the prior meeting, you
`said that was an all-day meeting, correct?
` A. Yes.
` Q. So your March 30th meeting, was
`that eight hours or was that longer?
` A. About right.
` Q. About eight hours?
` A. Yeah.
` Q. And that was also an in-person
`meeting?
` A. It was.
`
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` Q. That also took place here at
`Gibson Dunn?
` A. It did.
` Q. So after your April 3rd meeting
`with counsel, when was the next
`communication with counsel?
` A. This morning.
` Q. And how long did you meet with
`counsel this morning?
` A. About an hour and 20 minutes.
` Q. So you described three meetings
`with counsel that occurred in person,
`correct?
` A. Yes.
` Q. You also said that you had
`several phone calls with counsel. Were
`those also in preparation for your
`deposition?
` A. No.
` Q. Did those occur before you
`signed your March 23, 2018 declaration?
` A. I believe so.
` Q. So in total, you estimate that
`you spent approximately about 15 to 16
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`hours in person with Novartis's counsel
`after signing your declaration to prepare
`for the deposition day, correct?
` A. I believe that's correct.
` Q. What billing rate will you be
`applying to the time that you spent
`preparing for your deposition?
` A. $800 an hour.
` Q. Is that the same billing rate
`that you're charging for your time here
`today during the deposition?
` A. No. Full days out of the office
`are $8,000.
` Q. That's regardless of how much
`time you're actually here, correct?
` A. The time is marked out.
` Q. Other than the time you spent
`with counsel, how much time did you spend
`preparing for your deposition today?
` A. I haven't totaled up the hours.
` Q. Is it more than 10 hours?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Is it more than 20 hours?
` A. Now you're getting beyond my
`
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`knowledge.
` Q. Without asking you to give a
`specific number, your best estimate is it
`somewhere between 10 and 20 hours?
` MR. TRENCHARD: Objection to
` form.
` You can answer.
` A. No, my best estimate is it's
`more than 10 hours.
` Q. Okay. So you agree that you
`spent at least 26 hours preparing for the
`deposition today, correct?
` MR. TRENCHARD: Objection to
` form.
` You can answer.
` A. Yes.
` Q. Earlier you said that in
`addition to reviewing the declarations and
`the '405 Patent, you reviewed the cited
`references.
` Do you recall that?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Did you mean exclusively the
`references cited in your fourth
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` F. Lublin, M.D.
`declaration?
` A. No. The references that had
`come up during the course of this action.
` Q. When you say "references that
`had come up during the course of this
`action," are you limiting it to references
`that you have expressly discussed in one
`of your four declarations?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Did you review all of the
`references that you cited in all four of
`your declarations?
` MR. TRENCHARD: Objection to
` form.
` You can answer.
` A. I can't say with certainty that
`I reviewed all.
` Q. Which references do you recall
`reviewing?
` A. It was quite a few; so Webb,
`Park, Kahan, Kappos.
` Q. Can I ask you a clarifying
`question?
` MR. TRENCHARD: Let him finish
`
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` F. Lublin, M.D.
` his list and then you can ask the
` follow-up.
` Go ahead.
` A. The Kovarik patent. Those are
`the ones that come to mind in the moment.
` Q. When you said Kappos, there are
`a couple of references that are sometimes
`referred to in this case as Kappos. Can
`you tell me which Kappos reference you're
`referring to?
` A. The 2005 abstract. The 2010 New
`England Journal article.
` Q. And if we refer to those as
`Kappos 2005 and Kappos 2010, will you
`understand what we are talking about?
` A. Yes.
` Q. You also mentioned the Kovarik
`patent. Do you recall that?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Is that the same Kovarik patent
`that was discussed as a grounds reference
`by Dr. Giesser in her declaration?
` A. I believe so.
` Q. Did you review the other ground
`
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`references that Dr. Giesser discussed in
`her declaration in preparation for your
`deposition today?
` A. I may have. If you can name
`them, I can tell you whether I did or not.
` Q. We already talked about Kappos
`2005, so you already said that you
`reviewed that one, correct?
` A. Yes.
` Q. We already talked about Kappos
`2010. You said that you reviewed that
`one, correct?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Did you review the Thompson
`reference?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Did you review the Budde 2003
`reference?
` A. Probably.
` MR. TRENCHARD: Did you say
` Budde 2003?
` MR. MILLS: I did.
` MR. TRENCHARD: I believe in
` German it's actually pronounced
`
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` "Budda" and it's 2002. Our client
` speaks German, so we know.
` Q. Did you review the Budde 2002
`reference?
` A. I may have.
` Q. And that was in preparation for
`your deposition today?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Did you review the Cohen
`publication?
` MR. TRENCHARD: Objection to
` form.
` You can answer.
` A. The TRANSFORMS study. The New
`England Journal description of the
`TRANSFORMS study, yes.
` Q. Did you review, in preparation
`for the deposition today, the Calabresi
`study?
` A. I don't recall.
` Q. When I say Calabresi study, do
`you know what I'm referring to?
` A. I believe you're referring to
`FREEDOMS II.
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` Q. So you're familiar with the
`reference?
` A. I am.
` Q. You just don't remember whether
`you reviewed it in particular for the
`deposition today?
` A. That's correct.
` Q. You have reviewed it in the past
`in relation to this case, correct?
` A. I'm familiar with the reference.
`I'm an author.
` Q. Have you ever submitted your
`billing to Gibson Dunn for the time you
`spent preparing your fourth declaration?
` A. No.
` Q. Approximately how much time do
`you expect to bill Gibson Dunn for
`preparing your fourth declaration?
` A. I don't have the number. I
`think we are already at 26-plus hours from
`your calculation, so -- but I don't have
`the total of my review time.
` Q. To be clear, the 26 hours is the
`time you've spent preparing for the
`
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` F. Lublin, M.D.
`deposition after you completed the fourth
`declaration, correct?
` A. That's correct.
` Q. So what I'm asking for now is
`how much time you spent from the time you
`were first asked to prepare a fourth
`declaration until you signed the fourth
`declaration on March 23rd?
` A. I don't know.
` Q. Was it more than two hours?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Was it more than five hours?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Was it more than 10 hours?
` A. Likely.
` Q. Did you spend more than 12 hours
`preparing your fourth declaration?
` A. I can't go any higher with any
`certainty.
` Q. So now talking about the
`preparation of your fourth declaration,
`did you have any in-person meetings with
`Novartis's counsel during the drafting
`process of the fourth declaration?
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` A. I don't recall any.
` Q. But you did have telephone
`conferences with Novartis's counsel in the
`process of drafting your fourth
`declaration, correct?
` A. Yes.
` Q. How many telephone conferences
`did you have?
` A. I don't recall.
` Q. Was it more than two?
` A. I don't recall.
` Q. As best as you recall, could it
`have been as few as one?
` A. I just don't recall the number.
` Q. You said before you had a
`teleconference with Novartis's counsel
`before they wrote the first draft of your
`declaration.
` Do you recall that?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Did you have a teleconference
`with Novartis's counsel after they sent
`you the first draft of the declaration?
` A. We had a back and forth that
`
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` F. Lublin, M.D.
`could have been either by phone and/or
`email. I just don't know the numbers.
` Q. And who is your primary contact
`at Gibson Dunn in preparing your fourth
`declaration?
` A. Both Mr. Trenchard and Ms. Love.
` Q. At any time, did you have
`communication with one of the attorneys
`but not the other?
` A. It's possible.
` Q. And you have not spoken with any
`of Drs. Jusko, Steinman or Chun in
`relation to this case at any time,
`correct?
` A. That's correct.
` Q. Have you spoken with anyone
`other than Novartis's counsel and me
`during depositions relating to this case?
` A. No.
` Q. Do you know Dr. Benet?
` A. I do not.
` Q. Do you know of Dr. Benet?
` A. I do not.
` Q. Do you know Dr. Chun?
`
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` A. I do.
` Q. How do you know Dr. Chun?
` A. From his scientific work.
` Q. Have you ever met Dr. Chun?
` A. I have.
` Q. How many times have you met Dr.
`Chun?
` A. At least two.
` Q. Were these at conferences?
` A. At meetings.
` Q. When did they take place?
` A. I don't recall the dates. It
`wasn't 2018, and could have been in 2017,
`but more likely earlier than that.
` Q. What types of conferences were
`these?
` MR. TRENCHARD: Objection to
` form.
` You can answer.
` A. Scientific.
` Q. Do you recall specifically what
`conferences were you at when you met Dr.
`Chun?
` A. No.
`
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` Q. Do you attend scientific
`conferences other than multiple sclerosis
`conferences?
` MR. TRENCHARD: Objection to
` form.
` You can answer.
` A. Yes.
` Q. What types of conferences do you
`attend?
` A. More general neurology
`conferences.
` Q. Is it your belief that you met
`with Dr. Chun at a neurology conference?
` A. I don't recall where the meeting
`was.
` Q. And when did you first become
`familiar with Dr. Chun?
` MR. TRENCHARD: Objection to
` form.
` You can answer.
` A. Around 2010. Maybe earlier.
` Q. And how did you become familiar
`with Dr. Chun?
` A. Dr. Chun has done some
`
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` F. Lublin, M.D.
`groundbreaking work on mechanism of action
`of Fingolimod and Fingolimod-like agents
`in animal models.
` Q. Did you become familiar with Dr.
`Chun through your association with
`Novartis?
` MR. TRENCHARD: Objection to
` form.
` You can answer.
` A. Not sure. It's possible.
` Q. Have you ever presented a
`lecture at Novartis?
` A. Yes.
` Q. How many times have you
`presented lectures at Novartis?
` A. You need to be a little more
`specific as to whether you're talking
`about going to a Novartis facility and
`giving a talk, as opposed to giving a
`lecture at a Novartis-sponsored meeting.
` Q. Let's start with the first. How
`many times have you given a presentation
`at a Novartis facility?
` A. One or two times.
`
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` Q. Were you paid for each of those
`presentations?
` A. Yes.
` Q. What rate were you compensated
`for those presentations?
` A. I don't recall.
` Q. Approximately when did those
`presentations take place?
` A. Around 2010, 2011.
` Q. How many times have you made
`presentations at conferences that were
`sponsored by Novartis?
` A. I'm not sure of the exact
`number, but it would be greater than two.
` Q. Would it be less than ten?
` A. Likely.
` Q. And when you made presentations
`at a Novartis facility, presumably you
`were invited by Novartis to make the
`presentation, correct?
` A. Yes.
` Q. For any of your lectures at
`conferences sponsored by Novartis, were
`you presenting at the invitation of
`
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`Novartis?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Approximately what percentage of
`the time when you presented at a
`Novartis-sponsored conference were you
`presenting at Novartis's invitation?
` A. Likely all of them.
` Q. Were you compensated by Novartis
`for any of the presentations that you made
`at Novartis-sponsored conferences?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Approximately what percentage of
`the Novartis-sponsored conferences did
`Novartis compensate you for your
`presentations?
` A. Well, all of the ones, with the
`exception of there were times when
`Novartis and other pharmaceutical
`companies will sponsor a continuing
`medical education seminar. In those
`instances, it's not really at their
`invitation. It's at the invitation of
`whoever the certified medical education
`provider is. And in those instances, the
`
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`provider provides the compensation and
`does the inviting.
` Q. Can you give me an example of a
`time where Novartis sponsored a continuing
`medical education program at which you
`were invited to make a presentation?
` A. I can't tell you which specific
`ones, because when we do continuing
`medical education, we deal with the
`continuing medical provider. The content
`is all done in discussions with them. The
`support may come from one or several
`pharmaceutical companies, which I don't
`pay any attention to who it is.
` Q. Right. Right now I'm just
`asking if there's -- if you can give me
`one example of a CME presentation that you
`participated in where Novartis was a
`sponsor.
` MR. TRENCHARD: Objection to
` form.
` You can answer.
` A. I can't pick a particular one
`because I can't be sure who the sponsor
`
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`was for it.
` Q. Have any of your presentations
`at Novartis-sponsored conferences
`addressed the topic of Fingolimod?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Approximately what percentage of
`your presentations at conferences
`sponsored by Novartis have addressed the
`topic of Fingolimod?
` A. I don't know.
` Q. You would agree that you have
`been paid to make presentations at
`conferences sponsored by Novartis that
`address the subject of Fingolimod?
` A. At times.
` Q. As best as you can recollect,
`when was the earliest conference sponsored
`by Novartis at which you gave a
`presentation for which you were
`compensated?
` A. I don't know.
` Q. Could it have been as long as 10
`years ago?
` A. Could be.
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` Q. You agree that you have a long
`history of consultation with presentations
`related to Novartis?
` MR. TRENCHARD: Objection to
` form.
` You can answer.
` A. Yes.
` Q. You would agree that you have a
`long -term association with Novartis,
`correct?
` MR. TRENCHARD: Objection to
` form.
` You can answer.
` A. I have consulted with Novartis
`and many other pharmaceutical companies
`for quite some time now as drugs have been
`developed.
` Q. You have a longstanding
`relationship with Novartis, correct?
` MR. TRENCHARD: Objection to
` form.
` You can answer.
` A. I don't have an ongoing
`relationship. I've done consultation
`
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`advisory work with them off and on for
`quite a few years.
` Q. You would agree that Novartis is
`a repeat customer of yours, correct?
` MR. TRENCHARD: Objection to
` form.
` You can answer.
` A. I don't really have customers.
`I work with Novartis on several -- on many
`occasions.
` Q. Novartis is your client,
`correct?
` MR. TRENCHARD: Objection to
` form.
` You can answer.
` A. Again, I don't have clients. I
`have people I consult for or companies I
`consult for.
` Q. You agree that you have for many
`years been a consultant for Novartis?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Dr. Lublin, did you review any
`Novartis briefing in preparation for your
`deposition today?
`
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` MR. TRENCHARD: Objection to
` form.
` You can answer.
` A. What do you mean by "Novartis
`briefing"?
` Q. For example, a document signed
`by one of the attorneys?
` A. Oh, yes.
` Q. What documents did you review?
` A.
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