(cid:61)(cid:72)(cid:74)(cid:72)(cid:85)(cid:15)(cid:3)(cid:51)(cid:75)(cid:17)(cid:39)(cid:17)(cid:15)(cid:3)(cid:46)(cid:72)(cid:81)(cid:81)(cid:72)(cid:87)(cid:75)(cid:3)(cid:36)(cid:17)
`
`(cid:38)(cid:68)(cid:86)(cid:72)(cid:3)(cid:44)(cid:51)(cid:53)(cid:21)(cid:19)(cid:20)(cid:25)(cid:16)(cid:19)(cid:19)(cid:28)(cid:26)(cid:21)
`
`(cid:36)(cid:83)(cid:85)(cid:76)(cid:79)(cid:3)(cid:20)(cid:19)(cid:15)(cid:3)(cid:21)(cid:19)(cid:20)(cid:26)
`
`(cid:20)
`
` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
` _________________________________
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
` ________________________________
`
` DELL INC.; RIVERBED TECHNOLOGY, INC.;
` HEWLETT-PACKARD ENTERPRISE CO.; HP ENTERPRISE
`SERVICES, LLC; TERADATA OPERATIONS, INC.; ECHOSTAR
` CORPORATION; and HUGHES NETWORK SYSTEMS, LLC,
` Petitioner
` v.
` REALTIME DATA LLC,
` Patent Owner
` __________________
` Case IPR2016-00972
` Patent No. 7,415,530
` __________________
` DEPOSITION OF KENNETH A. ZEGER, PH.D., taken
`on behalf of the Petitioner, at 12390 El Camino
`Real, San Diego, California, commencing at 9:14
`a.m. and ending at 2:38 p.m., Monday, April 10,
`2017.
`
`Reported by:
`Audrey L. Ricks
`CSR No. 12098, CCR, RPR, CLR
`
`(cid:43)(cid:72)(cid:81)(cid:71)(cid:72)(cid:85)(cid:86)(cid:82)(cid:81)(cid:3)(cid:47)(cid:72)(cid:74)(cid:68)(cid:79)(cid:3)(cid:54)(cid:72)(cid:85)(cid:89)(cid:76)(cid:70)(cid:72)(cid:86)(cid:15)(cid:3)(cid:44)(cid:81)(cid:70)(cid:17)
`(cid:90)(cid:90)(cid:90)(cid:17)(cid:75)(cid:72)(cid:81)(cid:71)(cid:72)(cid:85)(cid:86)(cid:82)(cid:81)(cid:79)(cid:72)(cid:74)(cid:68)(cid:79)(cid:86)(cid:72)(cid:85)(cid:89)(cid:76)(cid:70)(cid:72)(cid:86)(cid:17)(cid:70)(cid:82)(cid:80)
`(cid:21)(cid:19)(cid:21)(cid:16)(cid:21)(cid:21)(cid:19)(cid:16)(cid:23)(cid:20)(cid:24)(cid:27)
`DELL INC., EMC CORP., HPE CO., HPES, LLC-IPR2017-00176, Ex. 1033, p. 1 of 4
`
`Teradata Ex. 1033
`Dell Inc., et al. v. Realtime Data (IPR2017-00806)
`Page 1 of 4
`
`
`
`(cid:38)(cid:68)(cid:86)(cid:72)(cid:3)(cid:44)(cid:51)(cid:53)(cid:21)(cid:19)(cid:20)(cid:25)(cid:16)(cid:19)(cid:19)(cid:28)(cid:26)(cid:21)
`
`(cid:36)(cid:83)(cid:85)(cid:76)(cid:79)(cid:3)(cid:20)(cid:19)(cid:15)(cid:3)(cid:21)(cid:19)(cid:20)(cid:26)
`
`(cid:20)
`
` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
` _________________________________
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
` ________________________________
`
` DELL INC.; RIVERBED TECHNOLOGY, INC.;
` HEWLETT-PACKARD ENTERPRISE CO.; HP ENTERPRISE
`SERVICES, LLC; TERADATA OPERATIONS, INC.; ECHOSTAR
` CORPORATION; and HUGHES NETWORK SYSTEMS, LLC,
` Petitioner
` v.
` REALTIME DATA LLC,
` Patent Owner
` __________________
` Case IPR2016-00972
` Patent No. 7,415,530
` __________________
` DEPOSITION OF KENNETH A. ZEGER, PH.D., taken
`on behalf of the Petitioner, at 12390 El Camino
`Real, San Diego, California, commencing at 9:14
`a.m. and ending at 2:38 p.m., Monday, April 10,
`2017.
`
`Reported by:
`Audrey L. Ricks
`CSR No. 12098, CCR, RPR, CLR
`
`(cid:43)(cid:72)(cid:81)(cid:71)(cid:72)(cid:85)(cid:86)(cid:82)(cid:81)(cid:3)(cid:47)(cid:72)(cid:74)(cid:68)(cid:79)(cid:3)(cid:54)(cid:72)(cid:85)(cid:89)(cid:76)(cid:70)(cid:72)(cid:86)(cid:15)(cid:3)(cid:44)(cid:81)(cid:70)(cid:17)
`(cid:90)(cid:90)(cid:90)(cid:17)(cid:75)(cid:72)(cid:81)(cid:71)(cid:72)(cid:85)(cid:86)(cid:82)(cid:81)(cid:79)(cid:72)(cid:74)(cid:68)(cid:79)(cid:86)(cid:72)(cid:85)(cid:89)(cid:76)(cid:70)(cid:72)(cid:86)(cid:17)(cid:70)(cid:82)(cid:80)
`(cid:21)(cid:19)(cid:21)(cid:16)(cid:21)(cid:21)(cid:19)(cid:16)(cid:23)(cid:20)(cid:24)(cid:27)
`DELL INC., EMC CORP., HPE CO., HPES, LLC-IPR2017-00176, Ex. 1033, p. 1 of 4
`
`Teradata Ex. 1033
`Dell Inc., et al. v. Realtime Data (IPR2017-00806)
`Page 1 of 4
`
`
`
`(cid:61)(cid:72)(cid:74)(cid:72)(cid:85)(cid:15)(cid:3)(cid:51)(cid:75)(cid:17)(cid:39)(cid:17)(cid:15)(cid:3)(cid:46)(cid:72)(cid:81)(cid:81)(cid:72)(cid:87)(cid:75)(cid:3)(cid:36)(cid:17)
`
`(cid:38)(cid:68)(cid:86)(cid:72)(cid:3)(cid:44)(cid:51)(cid:53)(cid:21)(cid:19)(cid:20)(cid:25)(cid:16)(cid:19)(cid:19)(cid:28)(cid:26)(cid:21)
`
`(cid:36)(cid:83)(cid:85)(cid:76)(cid:79)(cid:3)(cid:20)(cid:19)(cid:15)(cid:3)(cid:21)(cid:19)(cid:20)(cid:26)
`
`(cid:22)(cid:23)
`
`1
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`
` Q Is lossy versus lossless a data type?
` A Let me retract that. I meant -- data type
`with reference to the compressor, so I will take
`that back.
` Let's talk about image data versus speech
`data.
` Q Okay. Are there other types of data other
`than image and speech?
` A Yes.
` Q What other types of data are there?
` A There's video, for example.
` Q Is video different than image data?
` A Yes.
` Q Is image data typically encoded using
`lossy compression?
` MR. NOROOZI: Objection. Form.
` THE WITNESS: Typically, but not always.
` And, by the way, when I say "image," I
`mean still image.
`BY MR. SOMMER:
` Q Something that would be compressed maybe,
`for example, using jpeg?
` A That's an example, yes.
` Q Was jpeg available in 1998?
` A Yes.
`
`(cid:43)(cid:72)(cid:81)(cid:71)(cid:72)(cid:85)(cid:86)(cid:82)(cid:81)(cid:3)(cid:47)(cid:72)(cid:74)(cid:68)(cid:79)(cid:3)(cid:54)(cid:72)(cid:85)(cid:89)(cid:76)(cid:70)(cid:72)(cid:86)(cid:15)(cid:3)(cid:44)(cid:81)(cid:70)(cid:17)
`(cid:90)(cid:90)(cid:90)(cid:17)(cid:75)(cid:72)(cid:81)(cid:71)(cid:72)(cid:85)(cid:86)(cid:82)(cid:81)(cid:79)(cid:72)(cid:74)(cid:68)(cid:79)(cid:86)(cid:72)(cid:85)(cid:89)(cid:76)(cid:70)(cid:72)(cid:86)(cid:17)(cid:70)(cid:82)(cid:80)
`(cid:21)(cid:19)(cid:21)(cid:16)(cid:21)(cid:21)(cid:19)(cid:16)(cid:23)(cid:20)(cid:24)(cid:27)
`DELL INC., EMC CORP., HPE CO., HPES, LLC-IPR2017-00176, Ex. 1033, p. 2 of 4
`
`Teradata Ex. 1033
`Dell Inc., et al. v. Realtime Data (IPR2017-00806)
`Page 2 of 4
`
`
`
`(cid:61)(cid:72)(cid:74)(cid:72)(cid:85)(cid:15)(cid:3)(cid:51)(cid:75)(cid:17)(cid:39)(cid:17)(cid:15)(cid:3)(cid:46)(cid:72)(cid:81)(cid:81)(cid:72)(cid:87)(cid:75)(cid:3)(cid:36)(cid:17)
`
`(cid:38)(cid:68)(cid:86)(cid:72)(cid:3)(cid:44)(cid:51)(cid:53)(cid:21)(cid:19)(cid:20)(cid:25)(cid:16)(cid:19)(cid:19)(cid:28)(cid:26)(cid:21)
`
`(cid:36)(cid:83)(cid:85)(cid:76)(cid:79)(cid:3)(cid:20)(cid:19)(cid:15)(cid:3)(cid:21)(cid:19)(cid:20)(cid:26)
`
`(cid:22)(cid:24)
`
`1
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`4
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`10
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`
` Q So if somebody of ordinary skill in the
`art saw the compression of image data, they might
`understand that to be compressed using jpeg in 1998;
`correct?
` MR. NOROOZI: Objection. Form.
` THE WITNESS: Well, they might learn that
`it either was or was not.
`BY MR. SOMMER:
` Q What other types of data are there?
` A There's -- there's text data from, like,
`Word documents. There's e-mail. There's all sorts
`of stuff.
` Q How many different type -- using this
`understanding of data type that we've been using in
`these questions and answers here, how many different
`types of data are there as of 1998?
` A Probably an enormous number. I don't know
`if it's infinite or not, but it could be almost any
`number.
` Q Very large number; correct?
` A Yes.
` Q Is Claim Number 1 of the '530 patent
`limited to the use of any particular data type for
`the first data block?
` MR. NOROOZI: Objection. Form.
`
`(cid:43)(cid:72)(cid:81)(cid:71)(cid:72)(cid:85)(cid:86)(cid:82)(cid:81)(cid:3)(cid:47)(cid:72)(cid:74)(cid:68)(cid:79)(cid:3)(cid:54)(cid:72)(cid:85)(cid:89)(cid:76)(cid:70)(cid:72)(cid:86)(cid:15)(cid:3)(cid:44)(cid:81)(cid:70)(cid:17)
`(cid:90)(cid:90)(cid:90)(cid:17)(cid:75)(cid:72)(cid:81)(cid:71)(cid:72)(cid:85)(cid:86)(cid:82)(cid:81)(cid:79)(cid:72)(cid:74)(cid:68)(cid:79)(cid:86)(cid:72)(cid:85)(cid:89)(cid:76)(cid:70)(cid:72)(cid:86)(cid:17)(cid:70)(cid:82)(cid:80)
`(cid:21)(cid:19)(cid:21)(cid:16)(cid:21)(cid:21)(cid:19)(cid:16)(cid:23)(cid:20)(cid:24)(cid:27)
`DELL INC., EMC CORP., HPE CO., HPES, LLC-IPR2017-00176, Ex. 1033, p. 3 of 4
`
`Teradata Ex. 1033
`Dell Inc., et al. v. Realtime Data (IPR2017-00806)
`Page 3 of 4
`
`
`
`(cid:61)(cid:72)(cid:74)(cid:72)(cid:85)(cid:15)(cid:3)(cid:51)(cid:75)(cid:17)(cid:39)(cid:17)(cid:15)(cid:3)(cid:46)(cid:72)(cid:81)(cid:81)(cid:72)(cid:87)(cid:75)(cid:3)(cid:36)(cid:17)
`
`(cid:38)(cid:68)(cid:86)(cid:72)(cid:3)(cid:44)(cid:51)(cid:53)(cid:21)(cid:19)(cid:20)(cid:25)(cid:16)(cid:19)(cid:19)(cid:28)(cid:26)(cid:21)
`
`(cid:36)(cid:83)(cid:85)(cid:76)(cid:79)(cid:3)(cid:20)(cid:19)(cid:15)(cid:3)(cid:21)(cid:19)(cid:20)(cid:26)
`
`(cid:22)(cid:25)
`
`1
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`25
`
` THE WITNESS: I didn't specifically study
`whether there's a limitation. I didn't need to do
`that to analyze the -- the opinions of Dr. Creusere.
` I don't know offhand of any particular
`limitations. I do know that -- I think the claim is
`directed towards lossy -- I'm sorry -- lossless
`coding. So I think that would naturally incur
`certain types of data to not be used.
` Whether they are, you know, excluded or
`limited in the claim, that's another question I just
`didn't study. I would have to go back and think
`about that.
`BY MR. SOMMER:
` Q As you sit here today, you can't say that
`the first data block must be of a specific type of
`data; correct?
` MR. NOROOZI: Objection. Form.
` THE WITNESS: Without further study, I
`don't think I would feel comfortable saying it's
`limited to a particular type of data right now
`unless, I mean, maybe it's in my report and I'm
`forgetting it.
` But offhand, I don't see a particular
`limitation. There could be. I just would have to
`study it in more detail or be reminded and refresh
`
`(cid:43)(cid:72)(cid:81)(cid:71)(cid:72)(cid:85)(cid:86)(cid:82)(cid:81)(cid:3)(cid:47)(cid:72)(cid:74)(cid:68)(cid:79)(cid:3)(cid:54)(cid:72)(cid:85)(cid:89)(cid:76)(cid:70)(cid:72)(cid:86)(cid:15)(cid:3)(cid:44)(cid:81)(cid:70)(cid:17)
`(cid:90)(cid:90)(cid:90)(cid:17)(cid:75)(cid:72)(cid:81)(cid:71)(cid:72)(cid:85)(cid:86)(cid:82)(cid:81)(cid:79)(cid:72)(cid:74)(cid:68)(cid:79)(cid:86)(cid:72)(cid:85)(cid:89)(cid:76)(cid:70)(cid:72)(cid:86)(cid:17)(cid:70)(cid:82)(cid:80)
`(cid:21)(cid:19)(cid:21)(cid:16)(cid:21)(cid:21)(cid:19)(cid:16)(cid:23)(cid:20)(cid:24)(cid:27)
`DELL INC., EMC CORP., HPE CO., HPES, LLC-IPR2017-00176, Ex. 1033, p. 4 of 4
`
`Teradata Ex. 1033
`Dell Inc., et al. v. Realtime Data (IPR2017-00806)
`Page 4 of 4
`
`
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