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`UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`
`BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`Page 1
`
`--oOo--
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`Petitioner,
`
`K/S HIMPP,
`
`vs.
`
`Case Nos. IPR2017-00781
`
`and IPR2017-00782
`
`III HOLDINGS 4, LLC,
`
`Patent Owner.
`
`__________________________________/
`
`VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF
`
`CLYDE "KIP" M. BROWN, JR., P.E.
`
`THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 1, 2018
`
`Reported by:
`
`Anrae Wimberley
`
`CSR No. 7778
`
`Job No. 2798122
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`215-241-1000 ~ 610-434-8588 ~ 302-571-0510 ~ 202-803-8830
`
`HIMPP v. III Holdings 4
`IPR2017-00782
`HIMPP 1116
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`UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`
`BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`Page 1
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`--oOo--
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`Petitioner,
`
`K/S HIMPP,
`
`vs.
`
`Case Nos. IPR2017-00781
`
`and IPR2017-00782
`
`III HOLDINGS 4, LLC,
`
`Patent Owner.
`
`__________________________________/
`
`VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF
`
`CLYDE "KIP" M. BROWN, JR., P.E.
`
`THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 1, 2018
`
`Reported by:
`
`Anrae Wimberley
`
`CSR No. 7778
`
`Job No. 2798122
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`215-241-1000 ~ 610-434-8588 ~ 302-571-0510 ~ 202-803-8830
`
`HIMPP v. III Holdings 4
`IPR2017-00782
`HIMPP 1116
`
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`Page 2
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` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
` --oOo--
`
`K/S HIMPP,
`
` Petitioner,
`
`vs. Case Nos. IPR2017-00781
`
` and IPR2017-00782
`
`III HOLDINGS 4, LLC,
`
` Patent Owner.
`
`__________________________________/
`
` Transcript of video-recorded deposition
`
`of CLYDE "KIP" M. BROWN, JR., P.E., taken at
`
`Polsinelli, LLP, Three Embarcadero, Suite 2400, San
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`Francisco, California 94111, beginning at 10:09 a.m.
`
`and ending at 1:47 p.m. on Thursday, February 1,
`
`2018, before Anrae Wimberley, Certified Shorthand
`
`Reporter No. 7778.
`
` Veritext Legal Solutions
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` Mid-Atlantic Region
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` 1250 Eye Street NW - Suite 350
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` Washington, D.C. 20005
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`Veritext Legal Solutions
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`APPEARANCES:
`
`For Petitioner K/S HIMPP:
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` WILMER CUTLER PICKERING HALE and DORR LLP
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`Page 3
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` BY: HAIXIA LIN, ESQ.
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` CHRISTOPHER R. O'BRIEN, ESQ.
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` 1875 Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W.
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` Washington, D.C. 20006
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` (202) 663-6334
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` (202) 663-6029
`
` christopher.o'brien@wilmerhale.com
`
` haixia.lin@wilmerhale.com
`
`For the Patent Owner:
`
` POLSINELLI, LLP
`
` BY: MARGAUX SAVEE, ESQ.
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` Three Embarcadero, Suite 2400
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` San Francisco, California 94111
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` (415) 248-2103
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` msavee@polsinelli.com
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`-and-
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`Page 4
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` P O L S I N E L L I , L L P
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` B Y : H E N R Y A . P E T R I , J R . , E S Q .
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` 1 4 0 1 E y e S t r e e t , N . W . , S u i t e 8 0 0
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` W a s h i n g t o n , D . C . 2 0 0 0 5
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` ( 2 0 2 ) 7 7 7 - 8 9 2 8
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` h p e t r i @ p o l s i n e l l i . c o m
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`A l s o P r e s e n t :
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` R U S S R I G B Y , I n t e l l e c t u a l V e n t u r e s
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` [ A p p e a r e d t e l e p h o n i c a l l y ]
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` V E R I T E X T L E G A L S O L U T I O N S
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` E R I K P A R K E R , V I D E O G R A P H E R
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` S F D e p o @ v e r i t e x t . c o m
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` I N D E X
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`EXAMINATION BY: PAGE
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`MS. LIN 8
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`Page 5
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` --oOo--
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` E X H I B I T S
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` (None marked.)
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` --oOo--
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`PREVIOUSLY MARKED EXHIBITS INTRODUCED:
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`EXHIBIT PAGE
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`1004 30
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`1001 41
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`1003 57
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` --oOo--
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`QUESTIONS WITNESS INSTRUCTED NOT TO ANSWER:
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`(None)
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`Page 6
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` THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 1, 2018;
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` SAN FRANCISCO CALIFORNIA;
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` 10:09 A.M.
`
` - - -
`
` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Good morning, everyone.
`
` We are going on the record at 10:09 a.m.
`
`on Thursday, February 1st, 2018.
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` Please note that the microphones are
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`sensitive and may pick up whispers and private
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`conversations.
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` Please turn off all cellphones or place
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`them away from the microphones, as they can
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`interfere with the deposition audio.
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` Audio and video recording will continue to
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`take place unless all parties agree to go off the
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`record.
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` This is Media Unit 1 of the video-recorded
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`deposition of Dr. Clyde Brown taken by counsel for
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`petitioner in the matter of K/S HIMPP versus III
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`Holdings 4, LLC filed in the United States Patent
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`and Trademark Office before the Patent Trial and
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`Appeal Board.
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` This deposition is being held at
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`Polsinelli, LLP located at 3 Embarcadero Center,
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`24th Floor, San Francisco, California 94111.
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`Page 7
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` My name is Erik Parker, here from the firm
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`Veritext Legal Solutions and I'm the videographer;
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`here with our court reporter, Anrae Wimberley, also
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`from Veritext Legal Solutions.
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` I'm not related to any party in this
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`action, nor am I financially interested in the
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`outcome.
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` Counsel and all present in the room and
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`everyone attending remotely will now state their
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`appearances and affiliations for the record. If
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`there are any objections to proceeding, please state
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`them at the time of your appearance, beginning with
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`the noticing attorney.
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` MS. LIN: I am Haixia Lin from Wilmer Hale
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`representing the petitioner, K/S HIMPP. And I'm
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`here with Christopher O'Brien.
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` MS. SAVEE: Good morning. I'm Margaux Savee
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`from Polsinelli on behalf of patent owner.
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` Today I'm joined with Hank Petri, also
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`from Polsinelli, and remotely, by telephone, Russ
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`Rigby, in-house counsel for patent owner.
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` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Thank you, counsel.
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` Will the court reporter please swear in
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`the witness.
`
`//
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`Page 8
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` CLYDE "KIP" M. BROWN, JR., P.E.,
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` sworn as a witness by the Certified
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` Shorthand Reporter, testified as follows:
`
` EXAMINATION
`
`BY MS. LIN:
`
` Q. Great.
`
` Can you state your full name for the
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`record.
`
` A. Full name is Clyde Manford Brown, Jr., and
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`I'm a registered professional engineer, not a
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`doctor.
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` Q. And do you understand that you're under
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`oath today?
`
` A. I do.
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` Q. Do you understand you must answer
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`truthfully and fully just as if you were in a court
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`or a hearing before a judge?
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` A. That is correct.
`
` Q. Is there any reason you cannot provide
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`your best and most complete testimony today?
`
` A. No.
`
` Q. I know you've done depositions before, but
`
`just to make sure we're all on the same page, if you
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`need to take a break, let me know. But if there's a
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`question pending, just answer the question before we
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`take a break, if that's all right.
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` A. Okay.
`
` Q. Perfect.
`
` What did you do to prepare for today's
`
`deposition?
`
` A. For today's deposition, I reviewed the
`
`documents that we have here and my reports and then
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`met a few hours yesterday with Margaux and Hank.
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` Q. Did you meet with anyone else yesterday --
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` A. No.
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` Q. -- to discuss --
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` A. Anyone else? By phone with the in-house
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`counsel for part of that.
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` Q. Okay. Was that with Russ Rigby?
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` A. Yes.
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` Q. And you said it was for a few hours?
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` A. Yes.
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` Q. Okay. Have you discussed this case with
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`anyone else besides the attorneys that you
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`mentioned?
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` A. No.
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` Q. And you said you reviewed your reports.
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`Did you mean your declarations?
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` A. My declarations and the -- both the
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`petitioner's and the patent owner's responses to the
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`PTO and so forth.
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` Q. Okay. Did you review any documents in
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`preparation for today's deposition that were not
`
`part -- submitted as exhibits in the IPR
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`proceedings?
`
` A. No.
`
` Q. Okay. And you read the decision, the
`
`institution from the Board?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. Okay. Perfect.
`
` And I know you submitted a CV as an
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`exhibit with your declarations.
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. At the time you submitted it, were they
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`complete and accurate?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. Is there anything you want to add to them?
`
` A. Well, if I were to send it out now, I
`
`would add this case and the two preceding, part of
`
`the sequence -- two or three. I don't remember.
`
`It's getting confusing.
`
` Q. Okay. Okay. So you understand that HIMPP
`
`filed inter partes review petitions for U.S. Patent
`
`No. 8,654,999; right?
`
` A. Yes.
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`Page 11
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`you'll know what I mean; right?
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` A. I would prefer that.
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` Q. I would too.
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` And you submitted two declarations in
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`support of the patent owner's responses in these IPR
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`proceedings; right?
`
` A. Yes, because the proceedings have split
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`the claims apart into two proceedings.
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` Q. Perfect.
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` And you understand that this deposition
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`covers both of your declarations in both IPR
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`proceedings?
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` A. Yes, I do. I would appreciate it if any
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`of your questions were uniquely to one or the other,
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`you would identify which one it is.
`
` Q. Okay. Perfect. I can do that.
`
` So I know there were a lot of proceedings,
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`but do you recall when you were retained by
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`Polsinelli for this proceeding -- for these
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`proceedings?
`
` A. Someplace between September and November.
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`Because I started out with a couple of them and then
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`added on.
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` Q. Added on.
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`ordering?
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` A. No, because it went back and forth between
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`Page 12
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`them.
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` Q. Okay. Okay.
`
` A. I think this may have been the second one
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`I was retained for, the last one I actually
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`finished.
`
` Q. Okay. And how did you come to be retained
`
`by Polsinelli?
`
` A. I was recommended by Teklicon.
`
` Q. And is that an expert consulting firm --
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` A. Expert witness consulting firm.
`
` Q. -- service?
`
` A. Service, yeah.
`
` Q. Okay. And what were you asked to do? For
`
`these proceedings, what were you asked to do?
`
` A. For these proceedings, I was asked to
`
`review the documents and come up with an opinion.
`
`And then I sat down with Margaux and Jay, who is
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`another attorney with the firm, and went over what
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`my opinion was and how that met with the
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`petitioner -- I mean, the patent owner's claims and,
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`in some cases, had my own opinion.
`
` Q. Okay. Do you recall how long -- how many
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`hours you spent, just an estimate, working on just
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`these proceedings?
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` A. I should have actually gone through and
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`accumulated my hours so it would have been easier to
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`answer this.
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` Over a period of several months -- well,
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`no, only two months, I probably put in about 40 to
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`60 hours.
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` Q. Forty to sixty hours for the '999-related
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`proceedings?
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` A. Yeah.
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` Q. And your declarations reflect your
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`opinions with respect to the '999 patent and the
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`prior art cited in the petitioners; correct?
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` A. That's correct.
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` Q. Are your declarations accurate and
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`complete?
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` A. To the best of my knowledge.
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` Q. There's nothing you want to add to them
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`right now?
`
` A. There's a few typos, but nothing that
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`would change its intent.
`
` Q. Okay. Perfect. Okay.
`
` So you know about signal processing;
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`right?
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` A. Yes.
`
` Q. Are you familiar with a filter in the
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`context of signal processing?
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` MS. SAVEE: Objection; form.
`
` THE WITNESS: I'm familiar with a filter in
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`terms of generic engineering or in terms of signal
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`processing in respect to hearing aids.
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`BY MS. LIN:
`
` Q. Okay. Okay. Did the inventors of the
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`'999 patent invent filters in the context of signal
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`processing in hearing aids?
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` MS. SAVEE: Objection; form.
`
` THE WITNESS: They invented a method of
`
`modifying the hearing aid filters to achieve the
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`patient profile.
`
`BY MS. LIN:
`
` Q. Okay. But the concept of filters in a
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`hearing aid for signal processing, is it your
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`opinion they invented that concept?
`
` A. No.
`
` MS. SAVEE: Objection; form.
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`BY MS. LIN:
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` Q. Okay. So you would agree that a filter
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`for signal processing in a hearing aid was known by
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`2009; right?
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` A. I would agree to that.
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` Q. Okay. How about high-pass filter in the
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`context of signal processing? You're familiar with
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`that; yes?
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` A. In terms of a generic high-pass filter?
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` Q. Yes.
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` A. It is different from a filter in a hearing
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`aid, but it is definitely -- I know what a high-pass
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`filter is. I teach it in the analog classes.
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` Q. So you're saying a high-pass filter can't
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`be used in a hearing aid?
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` MS. SAVEE: Objection; form.
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` THE WITNESS: I'm saying a high-pass filter is
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`not what one would consider the filters of a hearing
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`aid.
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`BY MS. LIN:
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` Q. Okay. Well, let's stick with the concept
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`of a high-pass filter generally in signal
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`processing. Okay.
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` Did the inventors invent that?
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` MS. SAVEE: Objection; form.
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` THE WITNESS: Definitely not.
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`BY MS. LIN:
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` Q. Okay. So a high-pass filter was known by
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`2009; right?
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` A. Absolutely.
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` Q. Would you agree that a high-pass filter
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`generally attenuates lower frequencies more than it
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`does higher frequencies?
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` Is that a fair characterization?
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` MS. SAVEE: Objection; form.
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` THE WITNESS: Attenuates the lower frequencies,
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`that's correct.
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`BY MS. LIN:
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` Q. Okay. So you would agree that a high-pass
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`filter adjusts selected frequencies more than it
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`adjusts other frequencies?
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` Would you agree with that?
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` MS. SAVEE: Objection; form.
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` THE WITNESS: In terms of a -- the way you've
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`worded it, it would, but that's not the way a --
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`hearing aid filters would be -- wouldn't be a single
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`high-pass filter.
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`BY MS. LIN:
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` Q. Okay. So I hear you saying that a hearing
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`aid doesn't use a single high-pass filter?
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` Is that what you're trying to say?
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` A. What I'm trying to say is a hearing aid is
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`usually -- the ones discussed in the patent --
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`multiband hearing aids with a number of filter
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`coefficients for each of the bands. And those
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`coefficients include a lot more than a single
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`high-pass for the whole hearing aid.
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` Q. Okay. So let's -- let's see. So going
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`back to high-pass filter generally -- strike that.
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`Let me ask you an opposite sort of question.
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` Are you familiar with a low-pass filter in
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`the context of signal processing? I'm not asking
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`you about filters in the hearing aid. I'm asking do
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`you understand what a low-pass filter is in signal
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`processing?
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` A. A low-pass filter in general engineering,
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`yes. In the context of signal processing, you would
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`need more detail to know what you were trying to do
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`with a low-pass filter.
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` Q. So you are familiar with that concept?
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` A. Yes.
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` MS. SAVEE: Objection; form.
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`BY MS. LIN:
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` Q. Okay. Would you agree that a low-pass
`
`filter generally attenuates higher frequencies more
`
`than it does lower frequencies?
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` MS. SAVEE: Objection; form.
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` THE WITNESS: It attenuates the high
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`frequencies.
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`BY MS. LIN:
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` Q. Attenuates the high frequencies?
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` And it lets the low frequencies go
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`through?
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` MS. SAVEE: Objection; form.
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` THE WITNESS: In theory.
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`BY MS. LIN:
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` Q. And did the inventors of the '999 patent
`
`come up with low-pass filters?
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` MS. SAVEE: Objection; form.
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` THE WITNESS: No.
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`BY MS. LIN:
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` Q. So that was known by 2009; right?
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` MS. SAVEE: Objection; form.
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` THE WITNESS: Probably 1909.
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`BY MS. LIN:
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` Q. 1909. Okay. That's old.
`
` So you would agree that the general idea
`
`of adjusting some frequencies more than other
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`frequencies was known?
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` MS. SAVEE: Objection; form.
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` THE WITNESS: In terms of high-pass or low-pass
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`filters, yes.
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`BY MS. LIN:
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` Q. Okay. Okay. Are you familiar with the
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`concept of bass in the audio field?
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` A. Yes.
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` Q. Do you agree it refers generally to a set
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`Page 19
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`of lower frequencies?
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` A. Yes.
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` Q. And was the idea of bass known by 2009?
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` A. Yes.
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` Q. And say I have an audio device that can
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`adjust bass.
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` Do you have that in mind?
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` MS. SAVEE: Objection; form.
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` THE WITNESS: I'm waiting for the details.
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`BY MS. LIN:
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` Q. Okay. Okay. Well, if I can adjust bass
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`in an audio device, does that mean I'm adjusting the
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`lower frequencies?
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` MS. SAVEE: Objection; form.
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` THE WITNESS: Bass is a low-frequency boost.
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`BY MS. LIN:
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` Q. So if I can adjust the bass with an audio
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`device, does that mean I'm adjusting the lower
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`frequencies?
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` MS. SAVEE: Objection; form.
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` THE WITNESS: You're boosting the lower
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`frequencies, yes.
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`BY MS. LIN:
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` Q. Okay. So what about treble? Are you
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`familiar with the concept of treble in audio?
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` A. Yes.
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` Q. Okay. And do you think it's fair to say
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`that treble refers to a set of higher frequencies?
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` MS. SAVEE: Objection; form.
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` THE WITNESS: Treble is a high-frequency boost.
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`BY MS. LIN:
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` Q. Treble is a high-frequency boost.
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` So if I have an audio device where I can
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`adjust treble, do you agree that that allows me to
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`adjust the higher frequencies, for example, by
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`boosting them?
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` MS. SAVEE: Objection; form.
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` THE WITNESS: Yes.
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`BY MS. LIN:
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` Q. Okay. And both treble and bass were known
`
`by 2009; right?
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` A. That's correct.
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` Q. And was it known how to adjust treble and
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`bass by 2009?
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` MS. SAVEE: Objection; form.
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` THE WITNESS: There's a simple filter to do
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`each one.
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`BY MS. LIN:
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` Q. So each one, there's a filter for it?
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` A. Yes.
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` Q. Okay. Okay. Okay. How about the concept
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`of an all-pass filter? Are you familiar with that
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`in the context of signal processing?
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` A. Yes.
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` Q. And were all-pass filters known by 2009?
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` A. Yes.
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` Q. And would you agree that an all-pass
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`filter attenuates all frequencies equally?
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` MS. SAVEE: Objection; form.
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` THE WITNESS: That's the concept of an all-pass
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`filter.
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`BY MS. LIN:
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` Q. Okay. Great.
`
` A. Excuse me. You said, "attenuates
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`all . . . equally"?
`
` Q. Yes.
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` A. Usually it's expected not to attenuate any
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`of them.
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` Q. I see.
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` So -- but it should treat them all
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`equally?
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` A. Treat them all equally.
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` Q. Okay. Perfect.
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` So you said, in a hearing aid, there are
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`filter coefficients where each coefficient matches
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`Page 22
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`up to a different frequency band.
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` Do I have that right?
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` MS. SAVEE: Objection; form.
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` THE WITNESS: There would be probably many
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`coefficients for each filter band. As I said, they
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`could include compression. They could include a
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`whole number of parameters like that.
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`BY MS. LIN:
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` Q. So a hearing aid generally controls a lot
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`of different parameters; some of those include a
`
`coefficient for each frequency band for adjusting
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`that frequency band?
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` MS. SAVEE: Objection; form.
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` THE WITNESS: Again, what do you mean by the
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`word "adjusting"?
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`BY MS. LIN:
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` Q. Changing its level of attenuation. How
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`about we try that? Would you agree with that?
`
` A. There would be a coefficient for that.
`
` Q. Okay. And was it understood by 2009 that
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`hearing aids worked that way, as I've described it?
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` MS. SAVEE: Objection; form.
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` THE WITNESS: As I've described it, yes,
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`multi-coefficients to go into individual bands, yes.
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`BY MS. LIN:
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` Q. So that's not something that the inventors
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`of the '999 patent came up with; that was already
`
`known?
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` MS. SAVEE: Objection; form.
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` THE WITNESS: That was known.
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`BY MS. LIN:
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` Q. So it was known by 2009 that an
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`individual's hearing loss could vary across
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`frequencies; right?
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` A. That's correct.
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` Q. The inventors of the '999 patent didn't
`
`discover that concept?
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` A. No.
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` MS. SAVEE: Objection; form.
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`BY MS. LIN:
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` Q. So you're familiar with the term "hearing
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`aid profile"; correct?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. And do you agree that a hearing aid
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`profile is a collection of acoustic configuration
`
`settings for a hearing aid used by the hearing aid
`
`to shape acoustic signals to correct for a user's
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`hearing loss?
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` A. The term can be used that way, that's
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`correct.
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` Q. Okay. And you would agree that the
`
`inventors of the '999 patent didn't invent hearing
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`aid profiles; right?
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` MS. SAVEE: Objection; form.
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` THE WITNESS: No.
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`BY MS. LIN:
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` Q. Okay. A hearing aid profile was known by
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`2009; you would agree with that?
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` A. The audiologist programmed the hearing aid
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`with that.
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` Q. And was it known by 2009 that
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`transitioning from no hearing aid to a hearing aid
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`at the optimal compensation could be uncomfortable
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`for a hearing aid user?
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` MS. SAVEE: Objection; form.
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` THE WITNESS: That is correct. That is why
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`typically we recommended they be transitioned to
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`half or approximately half the correction that was
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`needed.
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`BY MS. LIN:
`
` Q. Well -- so you are familiar with concept
`
`of gradually adjusting a user -- let me start that
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`question over.
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` You are familiar with the concept of
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`gradually adjusting a hearing aid user's experience
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`from an uncompensated hearing level to a fully
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`compensated hearing level; right?
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` A. That was usually done by the audiologist.
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` Q. Okay.
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` A. And the patient would have to go back to
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`the audiologist each time --
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` Q. Okay.
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` A. -- which meant that there were a lot of
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`trips, a lot of adjustments and a lot of wasted time
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`for the audiologist.
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` Q. Okay. Have you heard that process be
`
`referred to as acclimatization?
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` A. In the patents, yes.
`
` Q. Okay. So you would agree that the
`
`inventors of the '999 patent didn't invent the
`
`concept of acclimatization?
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` MS. SAVEE: Objection; form.
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` THE WITNESS: No, but it was not automatically
`
`in general practice prior to that.
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`BY MS. LIN:
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` Q. It was not automatically . . . are you
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`saying that acclimatization was known, but just not
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`very common?
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` MS. SAVEE: Objection; form.
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` THE WITNESS: The way you have worded it -- it
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`was known to go back to the audiologist and get it
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`adjusted to where you could like it. Unfortunately,
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`that doesn't always work and a significant number of
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`hearing aids are returned even though they're
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`perfectly good.
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`BY MS. LIN:
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` Q. Okay. So you're saying, generally, the
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`concept of acclimatization by 2009 -- not whether
`
`it's -- not saying how it's specifically done, but
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`just generally that concept, that was known by 2009?
`
` A. Yes.
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` MS. SAVEE: Objection; form.
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`BY MS. LIN:
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` Q. Okay. And is it your position that it was
`
`only known that you had to visit an audiologist for
`
`every step in the progression?
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` MS. SAVEE: Objection; form.
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` THE WITNESS: The patents that have been
`
`presented show adjusting at least one parameter,
`
`like volume, but not the general automated
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`acclimation.
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`BY MS. LIN:
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` Q. Okay. So a set of parameters that dictate
`
`the filtering of an audio signal in a hearing aid
`
`were known by 2009; right?
`
` Would you agree with that?
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` MS. SAVEE: Objection; form.
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` THE WITNESS: You asked that before and I
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`agreed then.
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`BY MS. LIN:
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` Q. Okay. And you also said that these
`
`parameter sets could define the degree of
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`compression, that was known by 2009; right?
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` A. Yes. We introduced wide dynamic range
`
`compression in the mid '90s.
`
` Q. Mid '90s. Okay.
`
` And was it also known by 2009 that these
`
`parameter sets could also define the noise reduction
`
`applied in a hearing aid?
`
` A. Noise reduction is -- comes in two forms.
`
`One is a form that precedes the filtering process.
`
`Because as soon as you digitize it, you become --
`
`you alias any high-frequency noises back into the
`
`signal band. You want to reduce that noise before
`
`it gets into the processing.
`
` Second version of noise reduction is a
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`dynamic process, where the processor identifies a
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`noise and does something to attenuate it, but it's
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`not part of the normal profile.
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` Q. So if I defined a set of parameters that
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`my hearing aid is using, could some of those be the
`
`filter parameters and some of those be parameters
`
`for noise reduction, and that could form a parameter
`
`set?
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` MS. SAVEE: Objection; form.
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` THE WITNESS: The embodiments that I've seen
`
`didn't have specific parameters for noise reduction
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`programmed into the profile.
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`BY MS. LIN:
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` Q. But is that something that you could have
`
`done in 2009? You could have a hearing aid that's
`
`got noise reduction, it's got the filter
`
`coefficients, it's got a bunch of different
`
`operating characteristics, you know, settings that
`
`it's going to use for those two different -- the
`
`filtering function and the noise reduction function.
`
`That was -- were all of those known by 2009?
`
` MS. SAVEE: Objection; form.
`
` THE WITNESS: Again, I'll say you can't
`
`determine noise reduction until you discover what
`
`the noise is, so, therefore, you can't program that
`
`into the initial profile.
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`Veritext Legal Solutions
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`BY MS. LIN:
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` Q. I see.
`
` Was that for the second type of noise
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`reduction that you were talking about earlier?
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` A. Yes.
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` Q. What about the first set of noise
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`reduction, if you program that --
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` A. The first set of noise reduction would be
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`before the filters because you'll want to prevent
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`the aliasing functions.
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` Q. So you could have a hearing aid that first
`
`does this first type of noise reduction that you
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`described, and then it does the filtering
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`coefficients. And that was known by 2009?
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` MS. SAVEE: Objection; form.
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` THE WITNESS: That was generally practiced by
`
`2009.
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`BY MS. LIN:
`
` Q. Okay.
`
` A. The first filter would be a single, like
`
`you say, low-pass filter, something of that manner.
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` Q. Oh, because it's getting rid of
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`high-frequency noise?
`
` A. Right.
`
` Q. I see. That makes sense.
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`Veritext Legal Solutions
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` Would you agree that using parameter sets,
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`like we've been discussing, for acclimatization was
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`known by 2009?
`
` MS. SAVEE: Objection; form.
`
` THE WITNESS: I have not seen that evidence of
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`it.
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`BY MS. LIN:
`
` Q. Okay. Okay. So I'm handing you
`
`Exhibit 1004. This is U.S. Patent Application
`
`Publication No. 2003/0215105.
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` (Exhibit 1004 was introduced but was
`
` previously marked.)
`
`BY MS. LIN:
`
` Q. Do you mind if I refer to this as Sacha
`
`instead of spitting out these numbers every time?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. Perfect.
`
` Are you familiar with Sacha?
`
` A. I reviewed it.
`
` Q. You reviewed this.
`
` Let's turn to paragraph 4 in Sacha.
`
` A. You mean Column 4 or paragraph 4?
`
` Q. Paragraph 4. So at the beginning of every
`
`paragraph, there's a number in bold, in brackets.
`
` Do you see it? You got it?
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` I'll give you a chance to read paragraph 4
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`and then I'll ask you some questions. Let me know
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`Page 31
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`when you're ready.
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` (Witness reviews document.)
`
` A. Okay.
`
` Q. So before we get into paragraph 4 --
`
`sorry. I should have asked you this before.
`
` If you turn to the front, do you see where
`
`it says, "Pub.date," publication date, there, the
`
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