Transcript of RUDIGER L. URBAN KE
`
`Date: February 25, 2015
`
`Case: THE CALIFORNIA INSTITUTE OF TECHNOLOGY V. HUGHES
`
`COMMUNICATIONS, INC., ET AL
`
`PLANET DEPOS
`>> Anywhere '
`
`Court Reporting | Videography | Videoconferencing | Interpretation | Transcription
`
`Planet Depos, LLC
`Phone: 888—433—3767
`
`Fax: 888-503-3767
`
`Email: transcripts@planetdepos.com
`Internet: www.planetdepos.com
`
`Apple vs. Caltech
`lPR2017-00701
`
`Apple 1140
`
`Apple vs. Caltech
`IPR2017-00701
`Apple 1140
`
`
`
`Date: February 25, 2015
`
`Case: THE CALIFORNIA INSTITUTE OF TECHNOLOGY V. HUGHES
`
`COMMUNICATIONS, INC., ET AL
`
`PLANET DEPOS
`>> Anywhere '
`
`Court Reporting | Videography | Videoconferencing | Interpretation | Transcription
`
`Planet Depos, LLC
`Phone: 888—433—3767
`
`Fax: 888-503-3767
`
`Email: transcripts@planetdepos.com
`Internet: www.planetdepos.com
`
`Apple vs. Caltech
`lPR2017-00701
`
`Apple 1140
`
`Apple vs. Caltech
`IPR2017-00701
`Apple 1140
`
`
`
`UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
`
`CENTRAL DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA
`
`
`
`x
`
`THE CALIFORNIA INSTITUTE
`
`OF TECHNOLOGY,
`
`Plaintiff,
`
`v.
`
`: Case N0.:
`
`HUGHES COMMUNICATIONS,
`
`INC.,
`
`:
`
`2:13—CV—07245—MRP—JEM
`
`HUGHES NETWORK SYSTEMS, LLC,
`
`DISH NETWORK CORPORATION,
`
`DISH NETWORK, LLC, and DISHNET:
`
`SATELLITE BROADBAND, LLC,
`
`Defendants.:
`
`
`
`Videotaped Deposition of RUDIGER L. URBANKE
`
`Palo Alto, California
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`Wednesday, February 25, 2015
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`9:57 a.m.
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`Job N0.: 77059
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`Pages:
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`1 — 332
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`Reported by: James Beasley, RPR, CA CSR No. 12807
`
`
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`VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF RUDIGER L. URBANKE
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`CONDUCTED ON WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 25, 2015
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`videotaped Deposition of RUDIGER L. URBANKE,
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`held at the offices of:
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`WILMER CUTLER PICKERING HALE AND DORR LLP
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`950 Page Mill Road
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`Palo Alto, California 94304
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`(650) 858—6000
`
`Shorthand Reporter, CSR No. 1280?.
`
`Pursuant
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`to Notice, before James Beasley,
`
`Registered Professional Reporter, California Certified
`
`PLANET DEPOS
`
`888.433.3767 i WWWPLANETDEPOSCOM
`
`
`
`VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF RUDIGER L. URBANKE
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`CONDUCTED ON WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 25, 2015
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`A P P E A R A N C E S
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`ON BEHALF OF THE PLAINTIFF:
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`JAMES M. GLASS, ESQUIRE
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`QUINN, EMANUEL, URQUHART & SULLIVAN, LLP
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`51 Madison Avenue
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`22nd Floor
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`New York, New York 10010
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`{212} 849—?000
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`
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`ROBERT KANG, ESQUIRE
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`QUINN, EMANUEL, URQUHART & SULLIVAN, LLP
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`50 California Street
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`22nd Floor
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`San Francisco, California 94111
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`{415] 8?5-6600
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`ON BEHALF OF THE DEFENDANTS:
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`JAMES DOWD, ESQUIRE
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`WILMER CUTLER PICKERING HALE AND DORR LLP
`
`350 South Grand Avenue
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`Suite 2100
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`Los Angeles, CalifOrnia 900?1
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`{213} 443—5309
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`ALSO PRESENT:
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`JOSEPH MOURGOS, Videographer
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`PLANET DEPOS
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`888.433.3767 I WWWPLANETDEPOSCOM
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`
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`VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF RUDIGER L. URBANKE
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`CONDUCTED ON WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 25, 2015
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`C O N T E N T S
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`EXAMINATION OF RUDIGER L. URBANKE
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`By Mr. Dowd
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`E X H I B I T S
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`(Attached.to transcript)
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`URBANKE DEPOSITION EXHIBIT
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`Exhibit
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`1
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`Document entitled:
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`"Curriculum
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`vitae of Prof. Rfidiger Urbanke“;
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`three pages {double—sided).
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`Exhibit
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`2
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`Document entitled:
`
`"Expert
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`Report of Dr. RUdiger Urbanke
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`Regarding Validity of U.S. Patent
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`Nos. 7,116,710; 7,421,032;
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`7.916.781; and 8.284.833"; 39
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`pages (double—sided).
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`
`
`Exhibit
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`3
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`Document entitled:
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`"United
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`States Patent No. 7,916,781 82";
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`12 pages {double—sided).
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`Exhibit
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`4
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`Document entitled: Exhibit B —
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`Materials Considered";
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`two pages
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`(double—sided).
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`Exhibit
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`5
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`Article entitled:
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`“Irregular
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`Repeat—Accumulate Codes"; eight
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`pages (double—sided).
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`PLANET DEPOS
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`888.433.3767 I WWWPLANETDEPOSCOM
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`
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`VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF RUDIGER L. URBANKE
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`CONDUCTED ON WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 25, 2015
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`E X H I B I T S
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`C O N T I N U E D
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`URBANKE DEPOSITION EXHIBIT
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`Exhibit
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`6
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`Article entitled:
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`"Coding
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`Theorems for 'Turbo—Like'
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`Codes";
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`l0 pages {double—sided).
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`Exhibit
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`7
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`Table, one page.
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`Exhibit
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`Exhibit
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`8
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`9
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`Table, one page.
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`Article entitled:
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`“Practical
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`Loss-ReSilient Codes";
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`11 pages
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`{double—sided).
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`Exhibit
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`Table labeled:
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`"Random
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`
`
`Permutation," with handwriting;
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`one page.
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`Table labeled:
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`"Random
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`Permutation," no handwriting;
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`one page.
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`Exhibit
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`Table labeled:
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`"Random
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`Permutation," with red and blue
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`lines; one page.
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`Exhibit
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`Table labeled:
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`"Random
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`Permutation," no red and blue
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`lines; one page.
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`Article entitled:
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`“Graph—based
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`Codes and Iterative Decoding";
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`115 pages (double—sided).
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`PLANET DEPOS
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`888.433.3767 I WWWPLANETDEPOSCOM
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`
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`VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF RUDIGER L. URBANKE
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`CONDUCTED ON WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 25, 2015
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`E X H I B I T S
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`C O N T I N U E D
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`URBANKE DEPOSITION EXHIBIT
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`Exhibit 15 Article entitled:
`
`"Gallager
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`Codes Recent Results"; 12 pages.
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`Source code; 16 pages
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`(double—sided).
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`Article entitled:
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`"Analysis of
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`Low Density Codes and Improved
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`Designs Using Irregular Graphs“;
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`11 pages {double—sided).
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`Exhibit
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`E-mail from
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`(double—sided).
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`ART@scarpia.research.bell—labs.com
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`to dariush@shanon.jpl.nasa.gov,
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`dated 4/05/1999; one page.
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`Exhibit
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`E-mail from
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`ARTGscarpia.research.bell—labs.com,
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`sent April 05, 1999; one page.
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`Exhibit
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`Article entitled:
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`"Design of
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`Provably Good LOW*Density Parity
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`Check Codes“; 36 pages
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`{double—sided) .
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`Exhibit
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`Article entitled:
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`"Irregular
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`Turbocodes"; eight pages
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`PLANET DEPOS
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`888.433.3767 I WWWPLANETDEPOSCOM
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`
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`VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF RUDIGER L. URBANKE
`
`CONDUCTED ON WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 25, 2015
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`E X H I B I T S
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`C O N T I N U E D
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`URBANKE DEPOSITION EXHIBIT
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`Exhibit 22
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`E—mail from Brendan Frey to
`
`Dariush Divsalar, dated
`
`12/08/1999; one page.
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`Document entitled:
`
`"Provisional
`
`Application for Patent“; 35 pages.
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`Article entitled:
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`“Irregular
`
`Turbo-Like Codes";
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`11 pages
`
`{double—sided).
`
`Exhibit
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`Document entitled:
`
`"United
`
`States Patent No. 6,081,909"; 42
`
`pages (double-sided).
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`Document entitled:
`
`"United
`
`States Patent No. 4,623,999“;
`
`seven pages {double—sided).
`
`Exhibit
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`Article entitled:
`
`"Comparison
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`two pages.
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`of Construction of Irregular
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`Gallager Codes“; six pages
`
`(double—sided).
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`Article entitled:
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`“Low Density
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`Parity Check Codes with
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`Semi~Random Parity Check
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`Matrix“;
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`PLANET DEPOS
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`888.433.3767 I WWWPLANETDEPOSCOM
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`
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`VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF RUDIGER L. URBANKE
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`CONDUCTED ON WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 25, 2015
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`Palo Alto, California
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`Wednesday, February 25, 2015
`
`9:57 a.m.
`
`P R O C E E D I N G 8
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`THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Here begins Video No.
`
`I
`
`in the videotaped deposition of Rudiger Urbanke,
`
`in
`
`the matter of The California Institute of Technology
`
`versus Hughes Communications,
`
`Incorporated, et al.,
`
`in the United States District Court,
`
`for the Central
`
`District of California.
`
`The case number is
`
`2:13-cv—0?245—MRP—JEM.
`
`Today's date is February 25th, 2015 and
`
`the time on the video monitor is 9:57 a.m.
`
`The videographer today is Joseph Mourgos,
`
`representing Planet Depos. This video deposition is
`
`taking place at 950 Page Mill Road, Palo Alto,
`
`California.
`
`
`
`would counsel please voice identify
`
`yourselves and state whom you represent.
`
`MR. DOWD:
`
`Go ahead.
`
`MR. GLASS:
`
`Sure.
`
`James Glass from Quinn,
`
`Emanuel, Urquhart,
`
`& Sullivan, representing
`
`plaintiff Caltech and deponent, Dr. Urbanke. With
`
`PLANET DEPOS
`
`888.433.3767 I WWWPLANETDEPOSCOM
`
`
`
`VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF RUDIGER L. URBANKE
`
`CONDUCTED ON WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 25, 2015
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`me today is Robert Kang, also of Quinn, Emanuel.
`
`MR. DOWD:
`
`Jim Dowd of WilmerHale for the
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`defendants.
`
`THE VIDEOGRAPHER:
`
`Thank you.
`
`The court
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`reporter today is James Beasley, representing Planet
`
`Depos. Would the reporter please administer the
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`oath.
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`RUDIGER L. URBANKE,
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`being first duly sworn and/or affirmed by the
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`Certified Shorthand Reporter to tell the truth,
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`the
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`whole truth and nothing but
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`the truth,
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`testified as
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`follows:
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`E X A M I N A T I O N
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`Let me just go over a few ground
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`BY MR. DOWD:
`
`Good morning.
`
`Good morning.
`
`Thanks for coming.
`
`You're welcome.
`
`Have you ever been deposed before?
`
`No.
`
`Okay.
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`PLANET DEPOS
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`888.433.3767 I WWWPLANETDEPOSCOM
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`VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF RUDIGER L. URBANKE
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`CONDUCTED ON WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 25, 2015
`
`Your counsel may have already discussed
`
`this with you, but because what we say is being
`
`taken by a court reporter, it's important that we
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`don't speak over one another.
`
`So I'll do my best
`
`not
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`to speak when you're speaking and if you could
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`do your best
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`to do the same. I'd appreciate it;
`
`fair?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Fair.
`
`Okay.
`
`You understand that although we're
`
`
`
`in a conference room at the law firm of WilmerHale,
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`that the transcript and the video that's being taken
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`will actually be used in a court of law in
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`Los Angeles?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Yes.
`
`Okay.
`
`Is there any reason why you can't
`
`provide complete and truthful answers today?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`No.
`
`All right. You're not on any medications
`
`or suffering from any conditions?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`NO.
`
`We'll
`
`take breaks periodically.
`
`If you
`
`need a break,
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`just let me know.
`
`The only thing that
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`I would ask,
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`though,
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`is that if I have a question
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`that is pending to your
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`if you could answer that
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`question before we take the break, and then we'll ——
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`PLANET DEPOS
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`888.433.3767 I WWWPLANETDEPOSCOM
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`
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`VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF RUDIGER L. URBANKE
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`CONDUCTED ON WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 25, 2015
`
`then we'll take the break.
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`A.
`
`0-
`
`Okay?
`
`Understood.
`
`Okay. Could you please state your full
`
`
`
`name for the record.
`
`A.
`
`A.
`
`It's Rudiger L. Urbanke.
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`Where do you work?
`
`At —* I'm a full professor at EPFL in
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`Switzerland.
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`Q.
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`A.
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`What do you do there?
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`I'm a full professor in the department of
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`computer science and communications systems.
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`Q.
`
`Do you work in the computer science
`
`department?
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`A.
`
`It's a mixed department of communications
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`and computer science.
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`Q.
`
`Okay. And so does that mean that that
`
`department has professors who are both in the
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`computer science field and in the communications
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`field?
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`That's correct.
`
`And you work together?
`
`That's correct.
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`MR. DOWD: Let's mark as Exhibit
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`1 a copy
`
`of your CV.
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`PLANET DEPOS
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`888.433.3767 I WWWPLANETDEPOSCOM
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`
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`VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF RUDIGER L. URBANKE
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`CONDUCTED ON WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 25, 2015
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`{Urbanke Exhibit
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`1 was marked for
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`identification and attached to the
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`transcript.)
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`{Discussion off the record.}
`
`DOWD:
`
`Do you have before you Exhibit 1?
`
`Yes.
`
`Do you recognize it?
`
`Yes.
`
`What is it?
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`It's a CV of —— it's my CV.
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`Is it complete?
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`
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`Could you please, you know, make it a
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`little bit more specific what you mean by
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`"complete"?
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`Q.
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`Is there anything that's important
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`to your
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`background that's missing from this CV for the
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`purposes of this case?
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`A.
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`It's,
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`I think,
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`a fair representation.
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`There is, of COurse, many, many other aspects of my
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`professional life that I could have added, but
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`I
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`wanted to keep it, You know, relatively short.
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`Q.
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`Okay.
`
`80 Exhibit 1, was this prepared for
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`this case?
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`A.
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`Not specifically.
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`It's a standard CV ——
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`PLANET DEPOS
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`VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF RUDIGER L. URBANKE
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`CONDUCTED ON WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 25, 2015
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`And is this ——
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`_- that I have.
`
`Is Exhibit
`
`1 material that you believe
`
`best qualifies you to be an expert
`
`in this case?
`
`A.
`
`I think it would give a fair idea of who I
`
`am and, you know. what my qualifications are.
`
`Q.
`
`Okay.
`
`On Page 3 there's a list of
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`patents; do you see that?
`
`Right.
`
`Those are all U.S. patents?
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`I believe so, yes.
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`Those are all related to error correction
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`
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`They're perhaps in a wider area, not
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`just
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`error correction.
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`Q.
`
`Is any —— withdrawn.
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`Are any of the patents in the field of
`
`computer science?
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`MR. GLASS: Objection to the extent it
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`calls for a legal conclusion.
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`THE WITNESS:
`
`I —— I'm not sure exactly
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`if —— if I know what you mean.
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`BY MR. DOWD:
`
`Q.
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`Have you heard —— well, withdrawn.
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`You used the term "computer science"
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`PLANET DEPOS
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`VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF RUDIGER L. URBANKE
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`CONDUCTED ON WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 25, 2015
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`earlier today. When you used that term what did you
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`14
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`mean?
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`A.
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`Q.
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`Professors in computer science.
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`Okay. Using that same understanding, do
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`any of the patents that you've listed on Page 3
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`relate to the field of computer science?
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`MR. GLASS:
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`Same objection.
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`THE WITNESS: Most of these patents would
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`probably be well characterized as relating more to
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`
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`physical
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`layer communication.
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`BY MR. DOWD:
`
`Q.
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`Physical
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`layer communication? Did I hear
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`that correctly?
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`A.
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`Mostly, not —— not all of them, but, you
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`know, it's —— it's —— that's my main area of
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`expertise.
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`Q.
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`Okay.
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`So your area is in the physical
`
`layer as opposed to the MAC layer or other areas;
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`is
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`that correct?
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`A.
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`It's a fair assessment that most of my
`
`work has to do with that aspect, but codes are used
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`in a much wider area of applications.
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`Q.
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`I —— I'm just asking about your
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`experience.
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`So your experience is in the PHY layer?
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`A.
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`My experience has to do in general with
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`PLANET DEPOS
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`VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF RUDIGER L. URBANKE
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`CONDUCTED ON WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 25, 2015
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`Q.
`
`Okay.
`
`Now,
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`if we look to the Ph.D. work
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`that you did,
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`am I correct that your Ph.D.
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`thesis
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`related to the field of turbo codes?
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`A.
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`To some degree. This was not
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`the main
`
`focus of my Ph.D., but there were some aspect
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`in my
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`Ph.D.
`
`that had to do with turbo code.
`
`Q.
`
`Okay.
`
`Now,
`
`in addition to turbo codes.
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`you said there were other aspects; what were those?
`
`A.
`
`The main aspects had to do with what's
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`multiple—access communication.
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`A simple example of
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`what might —— might be meant with this is if yOu
`
`imagine you have Your cell phones and many people
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`are trying to communicate to a common cell phone
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`tower.
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`the question is how do you do this
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`efficiently.
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`Q.
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`And am I correct that one of the ways that
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`you investigated was a turbo code?
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`A.
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`Slightly more specifically.
`
`I
`
`looked at
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`particular ways,
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`infOrmation theOretic ways of how
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`to accomplish that. And when you actually implement
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`such a scheme.
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`there's also coding involved and in
`
`
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`that aspect.
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`I apply turbo codes.
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`THE REPORTER:
`
`I'm sorry.
`
`"And in that aspect" ——
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`PLANETDEPOS
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`10:03:41
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`Repeat that portion, please.
`
`THE WITNESS: Right.
`
`So in that aspect
`
`when you're actually trying to implement that
`
`scheme,
`
`that involves coding, and for that portion I
`
`used turbo codes.
`
`BY MR. DOWD:
`
`
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`Did you look at any other form of coding?
`
`I think this was the main form of coding
`
`that I used at that time.
`
`Q.
`
`I see. Have you ever been an expert
`
`witness before?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`No.
`
`Have you ever been involved in litigation
`
`in the United States before?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`No.
`
`Welcome.
`
`Okay. What is Your relationship with
`
`Dr. McEliece?
`
`MR. GLASS: Objection.
`
`Lacks foundation.
`
`Go ahead.
`
`THE WITNESS: Dr. McEliece is a very, you
`
`know, honored colleague.
`
`He is someone that, when I
`
`was a student,
`
`I read his book,
`
`a fantastic book.
`
`I
`
`met him during conferences.
`
`I found him to be an
`
`extremely original thinker,
`
`someone that would
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`typically never —— never, you know,
`
`follow simply
`
`10:05:50
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`the pack but would lead, have original ideas, have
`
`extremely good presentation skills, and he's one of
`
`our most valued luminaries in the field of
`
`information theory and coding.
`
`Just one example of
`
`why that is true is what's called a Shannon awardee.
`
`That's the highest honor that is given by the
`
`information field society for people working in that
`
`field.
`
`BY MR. DOWD:
`
`
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`So when —— withdrawn.
`
`Would you consider Dr. McEliece a friend?
`
`I did not have many —— you know, not ——
`
`you know, my contacts were relatively infrequent.
`
`I
`
`had a few e—mail exchanges with him.
`
`I would meet
`
`him at, you know,
`
`a few conferences, perhaps
`
`workshops.
`
`The closest contact
`
`I ever had with him
`
`was about
`
`two Years when I
`
`interviewed him for one
`
`of the conferences. This conference takes place
`
`every year in San Diego.
`
`It's called ITA,
`
`information theory and applications.
`
`And as part of this conference,
`
`there
`
`is —— you know,
`
`there's a more entertainment section
`
`in there, and part of this entertainment section
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`involves interviewing some of our most, you know,
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`well—known people. And I have done this now with a
`
`18
`
`variety of people and Dr. McEliece was one of them.
`
`And so there was a segment, perhaps 30
`
`minutes long, where we would talk about his life and
`
`his accomplishments, but also other aspects of his
`
`life that are not necessarily related to, you know,
`
`his technical work,
`
`simply to show people who he
`
`Have you ever published a paper together?
`
`I believe not.
`
`Have you ever conducted a research study
`
`together?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`employer?
`
`No.
`
`Have you ever worked for the same
`
`
`
`A.
`
`Certainly not at the same time.
`
`I don't
`
`know if he ever worked for Bell Labs. Bell Labs
`
`is —— I was at Bell Labs. Bell Labs is —— you know,
`
`has a long history.
`
`He might have at some point
`
`been an emplOyee, perhaps, or visited during the
`
`summer, not during the time I was there, but
`
`I
`
`cannot exclude that perhaps at some point
`
`in this
`
`past he might have had some connections to
`
`Bell Labs.
`
`Q.
`
`And do you have any social relationship
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`with Dr. McEliece?
`
`A.
`
`No, other than the one time where I
`
`interviewed him.
`
`I visited him for a couple hours
`
`up in —— in Caltech in order to get some material
`
`for him, simply some pictures,
`
`some other things
`
`that I __ that we could discuss. And at that point
`
`we talked about some points in, you know, his life,
`
`some events that happened.
`
`That was the closest I
`
`ever interacted with him.
`
`Q.
`
`Now, you mentioned that that was about
`
`two
`
`years ago?
`
`A.
`
`I believe it was exactly two years ago,
`
`around February.
`
`30 I must have visited end of
`
`January or something like that.
`
`Q.
`
`And that would be ——
`
`THE REPORTER: Wait, wait. One at a time
`
`and you need to repeat the last portion of your
`
`answer.
`
`THE WITNESS:
`
`I believe that the —— so it
`
`was two years ago, and I believe it would have been
`
`
`
`towards the end of January.
`
`BY MR. DOWD:
`
`Of 2013?
`
`Of 2013, yeah.
`
`Not
`
`to get
`
`into too sensitive of a
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`subject, but I've been informed that his health is
`
`10:09:11
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`20
`
`impaired at this point; was he in good health at
`
`that point?
`
`A.
`
`He had some problems.
`
`He did well during
`
`the interview. But he had some —— you know, he had
`
`had some medical
`
`issues.
`
`I don't know the details
`
`of them.
`
`Q.
`
`Fair enough. Fair enough.
`
`
`
`00 you know Dr. Khandekar, who's another
`
`named inventor in this case?
`
`A.
`
`I might —— I must have met him sometimes
`
`during a conference, but
`
`I had the least contact
`
`with him as —— as far as I know.
`
`Can you recall any specific instance where
`
`So we have a yearly conference called
`
`International Symposium on Information Theory.
`
`It's
`
`almost sure that at some point we must've met during
`
`this conferences, because essentially this is a
`
`conference involving about a thousand people,
`
`a
`
`thousand participants, and essentially everyone in
`
`our field would go to this conference.
`
`So it's a
`
`virtual certainty that we must've met.
`
`THE REPORTER: Hold on. You're going to
`
`have to slow down for me; Okay? You're going ——
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`THE WITNESS: Okay.
`
`Sorry.
`
`THE REPORTER:
`
`—w too fast.
`
`I have a
`
`little trouble understanding your accent.
`
`THE WITNESS: Okay.
`
`THE REPORTER:
`
`So I need you just to start
`
`the last portion over,
`
`slow down.
`
`THE WITNESS:
`
`So there's a conference
`
`called the international —— International Symposium
`
`of Information Theory.
`
`It takes place every year,
`
`typically around June.
`
`It involves on the order of
`
`a thousand participants. And since almost everyone
`
`in the field would attend that conference, it's a
`
`virtual certainty that at some point
`
`I must have run
`
`into him, exchanged a few words.
`
`I don't recall the
`
`specific instance but
`
`I think there's a very good
`
`
`
`chance that that happened.
`
`BY MR. DOWD:
`
`Q.
`
`Okay. And you mentioned the International
`
`Symposium on Information Theory; are you also
`
`familiar with a conference called Ambleside?
`
`A.
`
`I —— I've heard the name, although I'm not
`
`sure right now where. But I've heard that name
`
`before, Ambleside, yes.
`
`Q.
`
`Have you ever attended the Ambleside
`
`conference?
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`A.
`
`I don't think so.
`
`If you can tell me
`
`exactly where that is —— I —_ I've heard the name
`
`in —— in —— in the context of our conferences, but
`
`I
`
`don't believe I've actually been there.
`
`You probably know better than me ——
`
`Okay.
`
`—— but my understanding is that it's ——
`
`the —— the —— the location is Ambleside and I
`
`believe it's in ——
`
`Yeah.
`
`—— the UK.
`
`
`
`Yeah,
`
`I don't think I've ever been
`
`Okay.
`
`—— in Ambleside. yeah.
`
`How about
`
`the Allerton conference; are you
`
`familiar with that conference?
`
`Yes,
`
`I'm familiar with that conference.
`
`What is the Allerton conference?
`
`The Allerton conference is another yearly
`
`conference.
`
`It typically takes place around end of
`
`September or beginning of October.
`
`It's a
`
`conference that has a focus topics in communications
`
`and centrol. Although lately the tepics have
`
`shifted a little bit.
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`And so it's a yearly conference that is
`
`mostly visited by invitation; most of the people
`
`there go by invitation.
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`And what sorts of folks attend?
`
`Mostly from academia. There are special
`
`sessions that are organized, and depending on the
`
`topic, certain people are invited. And it's
`
`organized by faculty,
`
`typically from UIUC,
`
`from the
`
`University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign.
`
`Have you attended?
`
`Yes.
`
`When?
`
`
`
`Perhaps the first time might have been in
`
`1992, perhaps.
`
`I'm not 100 percent sure.
`
`I —— I
`
`went
`
`to Washington University, which is not very far
`
`away, and I started in 1990 at Wash U,
`
`so perhaps I
`
`probably didn't go the first year, perhaps not
`
`the
`
`second Year, but it's a fair guess that around 1992
`
`I started going to this conference.
`
`Q.
`
`Okay. And -- and have been every year
`
`ever since or ——
`
`A.
`
`No.
`
`I went for a few years in a row, and
`
`then I haven't been now in quite a few years. But
`
`I've gone there for perhaps a total of 10 years,
`
`perhaps.
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`Q.
`
`Okay.
`
`So the key kind of time frame here
`
`24
`
`is about 1997 to about 2000. Did you attend in
`
`those —— those years?
`
`A.
`
`I —— I can't be for sure. There's a
`
`chance that I attended some of these conferences,
`
`but
`
`I don't know for sure.
`
`I would have to check.
`
`Q.
`
`Is there any during that period that you
`
`recall that you did attend?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Not specifically.
`
`All right.
`
`You mentioned the IEEE
`
`earlier;
`
`is there an IEEE transactions on
`
`communications?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`Yes.
`
`What is that conference about?
`
`Oh,
`
`that's —— I thought you're referring
`
`to a journal.
`
`Ah, pardon me.
`
`Okay.
`
`Is there an IEEE—sponsored conference in
`
`
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`this field?
`
`A.
`
`So the transaction of —— sorry,
`
`the
`
`IEEE —— International Symposium on Information
`
`Theory is sponsored by IEEE.
`
`Q.
`
`Pardon me.
`
`A.
`
`So is the —— is ITA, and I believe that so
`
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`is now the Allerton conference, although I believe
`
`25
`
`that this is only very recently so that the Allerton
`
`conference is associated to IEEE.
`
`I believe that
`
`this might only be the last, perhaps,
`
`five, six
`
`years or so.
`
`Q.
`
`Uh—huh. And as you move from conference
`
`to conference, International Symposium on
`
`Information Theory,
`
`the Allerton conference,
`
`the ITA
`
`conference,
`
`I think we also mentioned Ambleside,
`
`is
`
`it generally the same folks attending these
`
`conferences?
`
`MR. GLASS: Objection. Vague.
`
`Lacks
`
`foundation.
`
`THE WITNESS: There's some overlap of
`
`people, but they're also distinct peOple that would
`
`only go to some of these conferences.
`
`BY MR. DOWD:
`
`
`
`Q.
`
`Okay. But you would see some of the same
`
`people over and over again at these different
`
`conferenceS?
`
`MR. GLASS:
`
`Same objections.
`
`THE WITNESS:
`
`Some of them;
`
`some of
`
`these —— some of these people might be at various
`
`COnferences.
`
`H/
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`BY MR. DOWD:
`
`Q.
`
`Okay. Let's return to the inventors.
`
`The third named inventor on the patents
`
`that we're dealing with is a Dr. Jin; do you know
`
`Dr. Jin?
`
`A.
`
`I must've also met him at some of these
`
`conferences.
`
`Q.
`
`him?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Do you have a personal relationship with
`
`No.
`
`Do you recall any specific instance where
`
`
`
`you've met him?
`
`A.
`
`I'm afraid not any particular date and
`
`time. But I'm sure I must've met him,
`
`I must've
`
`talked to him at some point. not extensively ——
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`Uh—huh.
`
`—— and I might have had an occasional
`
`e—mail exchange at some point, but various —— you
`
`know. perhaps a few. But
`
`I don't recall any
`
`particular e—mail exchange Or any particular time
`
`that I met him.
`
`Q.
`
`Got it. Let's turn to the preparatiOn for
`
`the deposition.
`
`What did you do to prepare for the
`
`deposition today?
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`MR. GLASS:
`
`As phrased I'm going to object
`
`2?
`
`to that question.
`
`It calls for —— potentially
`
`calling for attorney—client privileged information
`
`and instruct the witness not
`
`to answer.
`
`THE WITNESS: Could you just please repeat
`
`the question?
`
`BY MR. DOWD:
`
`
`
`Q.
`
`Sure. What did you do to prepare for your
`
`deposition today?
`
`MR. GLASS: And the same objection as
`
`phrased and instruct the witness not
`
`to answer.
`
`MR. DOWD: Are you going to follow that
`
`instruction?
`
`THE WITNESS: Yes.
`
`MR. DOWD: That's an improper instruction.
`
`MR. GLASS:
`
`I think as phrased.
`
`that
`
`question is overbroad. We both know the boundaries
`
`of the question, so...
`
`MR. DOWD:
`
`I'm not going to waste time
`
`debating it with you.
`
`MR. GLASS:
`
`Sure.
`
`MR. DOWD:
`
`To the extent you continue to
`
`make improper instructions, we'll raise it with the
`
`judge.
`
`. GLASS:
`
`That instruction was not
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`improper, but
`
`I agree let's not waste time.
`
`MR. DOWD: There's not supposed to be
`
`speaking objections here.
`
`BY MR. DOWD:
`
`Q.
`
`Now, Dr. Urbanke, did you prepare for your
`
`deposition today?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`I wrote this expert report.
`
`Okay. Other than writing the expert
`
`
`
`report, without getting into any details, did you do
`
`anything else?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Nothing specific.
`
`Okay.
`
`In advance of coming to the
`
`deposition today, did you meet with counsel; “yes"
`
`or "no"?
`
`A.
`
`In advance to meet —— I met with counsel
`
`several times also preparing for the report.
`
`Q.
`
`Okay.
`
`So let's talk first about
`
`the ——
`
`the preparation of the —— preparation for the
`
`deposition, okay?
`
`When did you first meet
`
`to prepare for the
`
`deposition?
`
`A.
`
`There was no specific time to prepare for
`
`this thing. This is a continuation of writing my
`
`report.
`
`I'm simply making sure that, you know,
`
`everything is in order,
`
`that I know all the facts.
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`Q.
`
`Okay.
`
`You have a document
`
`in front of
`
`you;
`
`is that your report?
`
`Yes.
`
`Can you hand over whatever you have there?
`
`{Witness complied.)
`
`Actually, why don't you hand over the full
`
`Great.
`
`Thanks.
`
`So who selected the documents that you
`
`have in front of you?
`
`A.
`
`These are documents that are deemed
`
`important —— I deem important for, you know,
`
`the
`
`preparation for today.
`
`Q.
`
`Okay.
`
`The last document
`
`in the stack is a
`
`paper by Dr. MacKay; do you see that?
`
`
`
`Yes,
`
`I see that.
`
`Who is Dr. MacKay?
`
`Dr. MacKay is originally a physicist in
`
`the area of statistic physics.
`
`I believe he has
`
`some connections to Bob McEliece.
`
`Perhaps he was
`
`his student or he was his post doc.
`
`I don't know.
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`Uh—huh.
`
`And for some point
`
`in time, he got
`
`interested in error code decoding.
`
`He wrote —— he
`
`wrote some papers on it.
`
`He then got out and is now
`
`in a different area. And he's, you know,
`
`located in
`
`PLANET DEPOS
`
`888.433.3767 I WWWPLANETDEPOSCOM
`
`
`
`VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF RUDIGER L. URBANKE
`
`CONDUCTED ON WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 25, 2015
`
`Great Britain.
`
`Q.
`
`Okay.
`
`Just because I don't remember the
`
`title from —— by heart, what was the title of the
`
`paper that you have there?
`
`A.
`
`This paper is entitled:
`
`"Comparison of Constructions of
`
`Irregular Gallagher Codes."
`
`Q.
`
`Why did you select that paper to bring
`
`with you today?
`
`A.
`
`It's, you know. one paper that deals with
`
`the general area that we're talking about.
`
`Q.
`
`Okay.
`
`So MacKay worked in the area that
`
`
`
`relates to this case?
`
`A.
`
`Yes.
`
`MR. DOWD: Let's mark as Exhibit 2 a copy
`
`of your report.
`
`Feel free to use either the exhibit
`
`version or your own version.
`
`(Urbanke Exhibit
`
`2 was marked for
`
`identification and attached to the
`
`transcript.)
`
`BY MR. DOWD:
`
`Do you reCOgnize Exhibit 2?
`
`Yes.
`
`What is it?
`
`It's my expert report.
`
`PLANET DEPOS
`
`888.433.3767 I WWWPLANETDEPOSCOM
`
`
`
`VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF RUDIGER L. URBANKE
`
`CONDUCTED ON WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 25, 2015
`
`Now, when were you first engaged fer this
`
`31
`
`I believe it must have been January,
`
`sometime in January.
`
`Of 2015?
`
`Yes.
`
`
`
`And how were you contacted?
`
`I was contacted by an attorney. His name
`
`is Mark Tung who asked me to —~ if I
`
`was ——
`
`MR. GLASS:
`
`I'm going to caution the
`
`witness not
`
`to divulge any communications between
`
`you and counsel.
`
`BY MR. DOWD:
`
`0.
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Well,
`
`let me ask, when in January did
`
`. Tong contact you?
`
`I don't recall the exact date.
`
`Was it around New Year‘s or was it around
`
`the end of the month?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`It was earlier.
`
`Okay.
`
`Now, did Mr. Tong provide to you
`
`any facts that you've relied on in the course of
`
`reaching the opinions expressed in Exhibit 2?
`
`A.
`
`No.
`
`Q.
`
`What were you asked to do?
`
`PLANET DEPOS
`
`888.433.3767 I WWWPLANETDEPOSCOM
`
`
`
`VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF RUDIGER L. URBANKE
`
`CONDUCTED ON WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 25, 2015
`
`A.
`
`So the general question that was posed to
`
`32
`
`me is what is stated in my report.
`
`I was asked to
`
`give a general opinion about
`
`the state—of—the—art
`
`and to give some opinions relating to a paper that
`
`I'm a co—author with.
`
`It's Richardson, et al.
`
`And also I added some opinions that have
`
`to do with the Luby '?9 and the Luby '98 papers.
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`Is that Luby ‘9??
`
`Sorry, what did I say? Yeah, sorry.
`
`'97
`
`and '98, yeah.
`
`Q.
`
`And if I refer to the Richardson paper
`
`that you're a co—author on as Richardson '99, will
`
`that make sense?
`
`
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Correct.
`
`Okay.
`
`Now, how long did you spend working
`
`on the case between the time that you were
`
`originally contacted and the time that the report
`
`was produced on February 17th?
`
`A.
`
`I don't have the exact hours, but
`
`I would
`
`guess that, perhaps,
`
`it took me on the order of
`
`maybe 50 hours or something like that. But that's a
`
`rough estimate.
`
`I den't have the exact, yOu know,
`
`number;
`
`I have not tallied up the number.
`
`Q.
`
`Okay. Who wrote the report?
`
`A.
`
`I didn't type every single word, but this
`
`PLANET DEPOS
`
`888.433.3
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