throbber
Neil Sheehan
`
`UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`Page 1
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`- - -
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`EDWARDS LIFESCIENCES CORP., : CASE IPR2017-00444
`Petitioner,
`: PATENT 6,915,560
`:
`
`vs.
`
`::
`
`BOSTON SCIENTIFIC SCIMED,
`INC.,
`
`:
`:
`Patent Owner. :
`
`- - -
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`Thursday, September 14, 2017
`
`- - -
`
`Oral deposition of NEIL SHEEHAN, held at
`KNOBBE MARTENS, OLSON & BEAR, L.L.P., 2040 Main Street,
`14th Floor, Irvine, California, commencing at
`approximately 9:01 a.m., before Rosemary Locklear, a
`Registered Professional Reporter, Certified Realtime
`Reporter and California CSR (#13969).
`
`- - -
`
`GOLKOW LITIGATION SERVICES
`877.370.3377 ph | 971.591.5672 Fax
`deps@golkow.com
`
`Golkow Litigation Services - 1.877.370.DEPS
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`Edwards Lifesciences v. Boston Scientific
`U.S. Patent No. 6,915,560
`IPR2017-00444 EX. 2017
`
`

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`Neil Sheehan
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`Page 2
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`APPEARANCES:
`
`KNOBBE MARTENS OLSON & BEAR, L.L.P.
`BY: CHERYL T. BURGESS, ESQUIRE
`cheryl.burgess@knobbe.com
`BY: CRAIG S. SUMMERS, ESQUIRE
`craig.summers@knobbe.com
`2040 Main Street, 14th Floor
`Irvine, California 92614
`(949) 760-0404
`Appearing on behalf of the Petitioner
`
`ARNOLD & PORTER KAYE SCHOLER, L.L.P.
`BY: WALLACE WU, ESQUIRE
`wallace.wu@apks.com
`777 South Figueroa Street, 44th Floor
`Los Angeles, California 90017
`(213) 243-4000
`Appearing on behalf of the Patent Owner
`
`- - -
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`WITNESS
`
`NEIL SHEEHAN
`
`Neil Sheehan
`
`I N D E X
`
`By Mr. Wu
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`NEIL SHEEHAN, having been duly sworn, was
`examined and testified as follows:
`EXAMINATION
`
`BY MR. WU:
`Q.
`Good morning, Mr. Sheehan.
`A.
`Good morning, Mr. Wu.
`Q.
`Could you state your name for the record.
`A.
`Neil Sheehan. Middle name is Joseph.
`Q.
`Where do you reside?
`A.
`One Southgate Street in Atherton, California,
`94027.
`
`Oh. We're not using a mic on the tie? Good.
`
`Okay.
`How are you currently employed?
`Q.
`I am a consulting engineer in the field of
`A.
`medical devices, and part of that is doing expert
`witness work as well.
`Q.
`Is there anything that might affect your ability
`to testify accurately and truthfully today?
`A.
`I don't think so. I took a melatonin last night
`and I'm a little hung over from it but I think I'm okay
`now.
`Q.
`A.
`Q.
`
`How many times have you given a deposition?
`Oh, I think probably 60 or so. Six-zero.
`Are they all patent cases?
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`No. I once knew the -- I once knew the
`A.
`breakdown. I'm going to say maybe 60/40 patent versus
`product liability and others, like contracts or trade
`secrets. It's something like -- you know.
`Q.
`Do you remember when was the first time you
`served as an expert witness in any case?
`A.
`Sure. First time I was retained was, I think,
`'94 or '95. I think on my CV I have '95. Might have
`been a little -- late part of '94.
`Had to do with a product liability situation
`having to do with percutaneous sheath introducers. And
`it was in State Court in Chicago, and it took -- they
`take a long time to get to trial. Maybe they take
`longer than patent cases. But that went to trial in
`'98.
`
`And then in '95 I worked on my first patent case
`for Christie Parker & Hale, also in Chicago, also a
`trial held in the winter.
`Q.
`How many IPR cases have you worked on as an
`expert witness?
`A.
`Wow. That's a good question, because I haven't
`specifically kept track of that, but it's got to be
`four, five, or six, maybe.
`I've done some for McAndrews Held & Malloy.
`That was the firm I was adverse in my first patent case
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`in '95, '96. So I'd have to research that.
`Q.
`How many times have you testified before a jury?
`A.
`Before a jury? I think it's 22. Well, 22
`trials, but I know at least one was a bench trial and
`maybe another one was. I'm not --
`Q.
`That was my next question.
`How many times have you testified before a judge
`in a bench trial?
`A.
`Well, I know one for sure in front of Judge
`Selna here in Santa Ana, I think, and I think -- I think
`everything else was jury. If there's another, it's just
`a onesie.
`Q.
`Now, as of now, how many cases are you working
`on?
`Oh, what am I -- now?
`A.
`Yeah.
`Q.
`I'm trying to retire, and it's not so simple.
`A.
`It's like Al Pacino in "Godfather III."
`Q.
`Okay.
`A.
`Trying to get out, they keep pulling me back.
`And so I think it's probably three or four.
`Q.
`What are they?
`A.
`Oh, okay. This.
`Now, I have to think about what I can tell you.
`I may not be able to tell you.
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`That's fine. I just want to know, outside of
`Q.
`this case and also the companion District Court case,
`how many cases are you currently working on?
`A.
`There is one that I don't know if I'm -- I don't
`know if I -- if it's public so --
`Q.
`Let me put it this way: In that case you were
`thinking about --
`A.
`Yeah.
`Q.
`-- is that a patent case?
`A.
`Yes.
`Q.
`And you have not yet been identified to the
`other side; correct?
`A.
`I think I might have, because I did a
`Declaration.
`Q.
`Okay.
`A.
`So isn't that by definition?
`Q.
`Correct. So could you tell me the name of that
`case?
`Yeah. This is Stryker v. Poseidon, like "The
`A.
`Poseidon Adventure."
`Q.
`And were you on the patent owner's side or
`accused infringer's side?
`A.
`I am currently on the patent owner's side.
`There might be a counterclaim. I don't know. I
`think there's one threatened.
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`Do you know what stage that case is in right
`
`They just had their claim construction hearing.
`And you submitted a Declaration in support of --
`Right. In connection with claim construction.
`
`Q.
`now?
`A.
`Q.
`A.
`Right.
`Any other cases you currently are working on?
`Q.
`My arm was twisted heavily by one of my other
`A.
`favorite attorneys and I'm going to do another case for
`that same law firm, and that I haven't even lifted a
`pencil yet. They just wanted me to agree to do it. So
`I think -- I think that's -- I think that's it. Yeah.
`I think I send out two invoices a month.
`Q.
`In the Stryker case, could you just tell me the
`general subject matter of that case? I don't need to
`know any confidential stuff but --
`A.
`No. No. No.
`It has to do with the collection of waste,
`surgical waste.
`Q.
`And in 2016 what percentage of your income was
`derived from serving as an expert witness?
`A.
`I would say all of my income.
`I do consulting engineering, I still do it, but
`I do it for free. I do pro bono, ironically, pro bono
`engineering work, and I focus on startups, young kids.
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`And a kid is anybody under 30 and even under 35.
`So I don't want their money, they can't afford
`me, and I don't want any stock because someone is going
`to screw me out of it later on anyway, some venture
`capital operation. So I just do it for the joy and for
`helping young people.
`So I've done -- you know, I tend to do one or
`two of those a year, you know. But my income, yes, at
`this -- at this point in my -- I'll be 71 next month.
`At this point in my life and career, this is all --
`yeah, this is all my income, other than maybe an
`investment situation.
`Q.
`What about in 2015; was all your income derived
`from being an expert witness?
`A.
`Yes.
`Q.
`And 2014 as well?
`A.
`Sure. I think, yes.
`Q.
`And when were you retained by --
`A.
`Oh, I take that back.
`Q.
`Okay.
`A.
`I forgot. Okay. Well, you haven't asked me
`about this year.
`This year, I'm doing some work for a company
`that is -- I'm assessing technology for an acquisition
`and I'm charging them money. This is a big company
`
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`looking at a smaller company, an investment acquisition
`kind of thing.
`So I forgot. That's this year. And it's a
`not-insignificant amount of money. So for this year,
`for 2017, it's not going to be that way.
`Q.
`And who's your client in that acquisition?
`A.
`I can't say.
`Q.
`But other than that income, for this year so far
`your income has been derived from being an expert
`witness; right?
`A.
`Well, as serving as an expert witness, which is,
`in fact, practicing my trade, if you will, which is the
`design of medical devices. I see them under the same, I
`see them under one umbrella.
`Q.
`When were you retained by Edwards or Edwards'
`counsel in this proceeding or in the companion District
`Court case?
`A.
`That is a terrific question. I was first
`retained by Kilpatrick --
`Q.
`Townsend?
`A.
`-- Townsend and Stockton, something. I think --
`isn't that a conglomeration of two firms?
`Q.
`Yeah. Kilpatrick and Townsend Townsend.
`A.
`Oh, that's right. Townsend, Townsend & Crew,
`Curry & Crew and all those.
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`Page 11
`THE WITNESS: I'll spell those, if I can.
`So they hired me at first.
`BY MR. WU:
`Q.
`And when was --
`A.
`And, yeah, see, it had to be maybe -- could it
`have been beginning of this year, end of last year? I'm
`not sure. I mean, there's a record.
`Well, let me put it this way: It's knowable.
`I'd have to check my invoices, and there's a good chance
`that counsel here will know something about that.
`But then it got -- the client switched to
`Knobbe, at least for this matter, for the IPR for this
`matter. And I came -- obviously, I came with it.
`Q.
`Were you retained initially for the purpose of
`the crimper patent or were you retained for the purpose
`of another patent in this case?
`A.
`For the crimper patent, for the '560.
`Q.
`Now, I'm going to hand you an exhibit that has
`been identified as Exhibit 1106 in this IPR proceeding.
`MR. WU: I'm just going to use the original
`exhibit.
`MS. BURGESS: Sure.
`BY MR. WU:
`Q.
`Mr. Sheehan, have you is seen Exhibit 1106
`before?
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`Yes. It is my CV.
`A.
`And, to your knowledge, as you sit here today,
`Q.
`everything in Exhibit 1106 is accurate?
`A.
`Well, it sure looks like mine and I know I
`submitted it. So I don't know of anything in here to be
`inaccurate. I've never found anything.
`Q.
`Is it also complete, to your knowledge?
`A.
`I don't know what you mean by complete, but
`every -- everybody -- not all my -- well, the list of my
`consulting clients and that -- these are purely
`engineering clients -- that's not necessarily complete.
`That's -- oh, wait. It's missing one. Okay. So there
`has been -- yeah. Sorry. There is an engineering
`client missing.
`So this probably -- I'm going to guess that this
`came into your hands when I was retained by Kilpatrick,
`I guess, and that's probably before I did work for a
`company called Yuno, Y-U-N-O. And that was -- that's an
`example of consulting for no money.
`Q.
`Do you know the subject matter of your
`consulting work?
`A.
`Oh, yeah. Yeah. Oh, yes.
`Q.
`What is that?
`A.
`I was helping them -- well, let me describe the
`product first.
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`Page 13
`The product is an in-ear basal temperature
`monitor. And this is for couples trying to become
`pregnant. And there are a number of features about the
`ear and how you deal with the ear where you get a really
`good indicator of true basal temperature and, of course,
`that's an indication of ovulation.
`And, you know, it used -- generally, it's the
`thermometer, you know, but you're looking for sometimes
`less than a one-degree change so it's not easy to do.
`If you measured your temperature every day, you know,
`good luck. Nobody ever -- nobody ever does it, right,
`until they're trying to get pregnant.
`And, also, some remarkable data processing
`techniques they were using. And then -- so I helped
`them on some industrial designs, some vendor contacts,
`hooked them up with a doc that I've worked with who is
`part of the Fogarty Institute, Tom Fogarty. There's no
`Fogarty money in it but, you know, it's -- it was well
`connected, I guess is the term.
`Q.
`Is there anything else that's missing in
`Exhibit 1106 that you're aware of?
`A.
`Maybe a patent. Yes, there's a patent, another
`patent, missing. If you go to Page 5 --
`Q.
`Yeah.
`A.
`-- you see Rosecroft up there?
`
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`Yeah.
`Q.
`There's a second patent that issued in 20 -- I
`A.
`don't know. I guess it issued this year.
`You know, we inventors -- I have 41 patents, I
`think. The way we find out a patent has issued is we
`get an offer for a plaque, you know, the company that
`wants to sell you the plaque, because oftentimes
`companies, especially if you are a consultant, you're
`not in the loop anymore. You know, it's three years
`later, four years later, and it issues, and nobody
`thinks to call Neil so...
`Q.
`And the second Rosecroft patent is probably some
`kind of continuation or a continuation of the first part
`of the Rosecroft patent?
`A.
`Correct.
`Q.
`Anything else that's missing that you can
`recall?
`Yeah. I started out with nothing and now I
`A.
`found two things so it is reasonable for you to ask.
`No. I think -- I think that's it.
`Well, let's go to Page 1 of your engineering
`Q.
`clients. The way it's organized, it's organized by
`alphabetical order.
`A.
`Well, I put these in alphabetical order because
`how can you put them in time order because they overlap
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`Page 15
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`and they're intermittent?
`So these are consulting clients I've had between
`1993 and 2016. Prior to that, prior to 1993, you go
`all -- you go to Page 4 and you can see this is -- this
`is when I was regularly employed.
`So my last job before going out on my own in '93
`was VP of engineering and manufacturing at Natus
`Medical. And then as you go down that page, it takes
`you all the way back to my first job out of graduate
`school, and even on the top of Page 5 is my
`undergraduate summers.
`Q.
`Yeah. I have some questions about your
`education and background.
`A.
`Sure.
`Q.
`So after you got your B.S. Degree in mechanical
`engineering from Villanova --
`A.
`Uh-huh.
`Q.
`-- you seem to have switched field of
`concentration from mechanical engineering -- sorry.
`That's my next question.
`So you decided to go to Harvard for a Master's
`
`Degree?
`Well, I was actually in the -- well, I had the
`A.
`option. I was a National Science Foundation -- oh, it
`says there -- fellow, and I had the option of Master's
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`Page 16
`or Doctorate. And, you know, just do as much as I want.
`And it was still mechanical engineering. I mean, one of
`the courses was stress analysis. There was some EE in
`it as well. I don't know that I can remember all the
`courses. Oh, magnetism. So I wasn't -- I mean, I don't
`know -- I'm not sure what the question is.
`Q.
`Well --
`A.
`It's along the same lines.
`Q.
`Yeah. Actually, my question --
`A.
`And who doesn't want to go to Harvard?
`Q.
`That's right.
`So you graduated from Harvard with a Master's
`
`Degree?
`No. No. No.
`A.
`Okay.
`Q.
`See, a lot of people read that incorrectly, and
`A.
`it's really funny. And I appreciate your gentle
`misunderstanding. Sometimes people do the research, you
`don't have a Master's Degree, yet it says so on your CV.
`No. Harvard University is located in Cambridge,
`Massachusetts. See? Just like Villanova is in PA and
`Berkeley is in CA, California.
`So I have no degree. I left after one very long
`semester. It went from, wrapped around from '68 to '69.
`Q.
`I guess my question is, why didn't you finish
`
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`your Master or Ph.D. Degree from Harvard?
`A.
`Some personal reasons, and I realized that the
`academic life wasn't going to be the life for me. So I
`kind of wanted to get out there and do stuff.
`Q.
`You're giving up National Science Foundation
`fellow money in order to --
`A.
`Yeah.
`Q.
`-- do your own stuff?
`A.
`Yes.
`Q.
`So you --
`A.
`Well, to work for -- I worked for Magnetic Head
`Corporation, where I had worked in the summer before.
`And they offered me a job and they said, don't go to
`graduate school.
`I said, no. No. No. I've got to try graduate
`
`school.
`So you were in Cambridge, Massachusetts, for one
`Q.
`semester at Harvard.
`A.
`Correct.
`Q.
`And then you went on to --
`A.
`'68 to '69.
`Q.
`Right.
`So then you went on to work for Magnetic Head
`Corporation; right?
`A.
`Correct.
`
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`And you were there for about four years --
`Q.
`No. I thought it was --
`A.
`-- from 1969 to 1973?
`Q.
`Yeah, 1973. So '4, '5. Yeah, beginning of '69
`A.
`and, oh, I not when I left in '73, September. So four
`and a half, maybe, or whatever the math is.
`My first wife and I went to Sweden, bought a
`Volvo, and drove around Europe for a number of months
`before moving to California in '74.
`Q.
`So --
`A.
`This is all New York, basically.
`Q.
`I understand.
`At some point you decided to go back to school?
`I did.
`So what happened there?
`I wanted to be a doctor.
`While traveling in Europe, I had a number of
`dental emergencies. Like a lot of people in my
`generation, our family dentistry was pretty bad. For
`example, my dentist was the husband of my mom's best
`friend from high school. And come to find out that his
`philosophy was, oh, everybody gets false teeth in the
`end. So he didn't do root canals, you know, he'd yank
`teeth. Imagine yanking a tooth out of a teenager.
`So, in any event, I had some dental emergencies
`
`A.
`Q.
`A.
`
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`while traveling in Europe in the nice, new Volvo. And I
`went -- this mostly occurred in Zurich -- and registered
`with the consulate, the U.S. consulate, was a couple of
`dentists who were willing to help travelers. I mean,
`what a nice thing.
`And this guy, he's since passed away, Eric
`Margstahler, worked on me for days and days and days,
`and then we went, my wife and I went down to Spain and
`we came back, he did a little more work, never charged
`me a penny. He just enjoyed people.
`And I went to see him 20 years later when I was
`in Europe. I had no idea how old he was because I was
`in my 20s, and when you're in your 20s, somebody in
`their 60s, you don't know how old they are. So we had a
`wonderful reunion.
`And, anyway, the point is, I was so moved by his
`willingness to be in a position to want to help people,
`I thought, I'd like to do that but I don't want to be a
`dentist, I want to be a doctor. So I applied to medical
`school. But in order to do that, my engineering
`background at Villanova was -- and my electives were
`very broad. I had -- I did a lot of credits in addition
`to what was necessary for my degree.
`So the only thing I had to take was organic
`chemistry and biology, and I did that at Cal. I also
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`took biochemistry, I took sociology so I'd have a full
`plate, and then I applied to medical school. And then I
`didn't get into medical school.
`So I went over to UCSF and I said, hey, can we
`talk about why a guy with MCAT scores as high as mine
`with a 3.98 grade point average and motivation, why
`didn't I get into medical school?
`And they said, frankly, because you're too old,
`29, too white, and too male. And that was a frank way
`of saying Affirmative Action, something I still support
`to this day.
`So it was disappointing but, at the same time,
`my first marriage was sort of breaking up because I had
`an interview at Tufts and my wife suggested that she
`wasn't going to be moving back to Boston, so if I -- if
`I had gotten in there. So I just sort of -- that was
`the end, kind of the end of it.
`I was up against a wall. But, happily, today
`there are more women in medical school than there are
`men and doctors aren't a bunch of old, white guys so...
`Q.
`So at some point you decided to go back to
`Berkeley for some premed course work?
`A.
`Yes. That was in '74.
`Q.
`That was in preparation for applying for medical
`school?
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`
`Correct.
`And then because you didn't get in eventually
`
`A.
`Q.
`so --
`I had to get a job.
`A.
`You didn't feel the need to continue with that
`Q.
`education at Berkeley?
`A.
`No. I was fulfilling premed requirements. I
`mean, a lot of people go to college premed and they take
`all the things required for medical school.
`By virtue of my broad mechanical engineering and
`outside-of-engineering education -- I was in the honors
`English program at the same time -- I had everything
`except organic chemistry and biology. So I took two
`quarters -- and I don't know if you know anything about
`Cal, it's quarter-based so you take two courses -- each
`course is over two quarters, so I took 8-A and 8-B,
`organic chemistry, 1-A and 1-B, which is biology, and
`that completed my -- that's the only reason I went. It
`was interesting, it was fun to learn, especially organic
`chemistry.
`And then I applied to medical school. And,
`actually, while I was waiting -- I applied two years in
`a row, I think. While I was waiting, I got -- I needed
`to get a job, so I went through a job shop and I ended
`up working at Cutter Laboratories. And then Cutter
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`Laboratories -- I was there, I don't know, X number of
`months -- started hiring people on a permanent basis.
`So okay.
`Q.
`You signed up.
`A.
`Yeah.
`Q.
`So --
`A.
`And thence began my career in the medical device
`industry, which is why at my age I only have 42 years in
`medical device, because there's that bonus four or five
`or whatever it was in front of it in computer
`peripherals at Magnetic Head Corporation.
`Q.
`So there's something interesting in your resume
`I want to ask you a few questions about.
`A.
`Sure.
`Q.
`After Cutter Laboratories, you went into the
`fashion industry? So I want to know why you decided to
`go into the fashion industry.
`A.
`Yeah, that's pretty cool. It actually -- I have
`it listed as a separate entity because that's the only
`year -- well, no. Well, the only year I have it -- I
`have it listed from '82 to '83 because that was the
`high-focus year and I wasn't doing any other job. That
`was about, you know, a 12-month period, and that was
`towards the end of it and wrapping it up.
`What happened was I was working for Cutter
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`Laboratories. And they're very smart. They sent all
`the new hires, I think there were maybe three or four of
`us, to all their plants, Chattanooga, Tennessee,
`Clayton, North Carolina, Ogden, Utah.
`They had a thing down here in Covina, maybe that
`way, but we didn't visit that because that was blood
`bags and I wasn't in blood bags.
`So I'm sitting on the line, and the idea was to
`get familiar with what the assembly workers have to deal
`with because you're going to be designing new products
`and you have to design it with manufacturing in mind.
`It's funny, that's not an old concept. That's a concept
`that I used from day one.
`In any event, I was playing with tubing and I
`made a bracelet. Hey, maybe I can put liquid in this.
`And I worked out a system to put liquid in it. I put
`water in it. And, believe it or not, you know Telegraph
`Avenue, you know the legendary Telegraph Avenue from the
`'60s? Well, it's where a lot of people sold crafts.
`And that was true in the '70s.
`So I got a little stand there and on the
`weekends I sold my liquid bracelets. Then the next
`week -- I did that one Saturday and then a week later I
`went to get my bracelets out of where I was storing them
`and the water had passed through the PVC tubing. This
`
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`was how I learned about the moisture vapor transmission
`rates of different polymers so -- and I also discovered
`glycerine. Glycerine is hygroscopic, so the moisture
`would go the other direction.
`So eventually this turned -- it turned into a
`pretty good-sized business because I sold to a couple of
`local stores and then I flew to New York City. And I'm
`a New Yorker. I was born in -- I was born in the same
`year, in the same hospital as our current -- it's hard
`to say -- President, and so we're the same age, but I
`think my hair looks more natural.
`So I went there and I sold it to Bloomingdale's,
`my liquid bracelets. My liquid bracelets are at the
`Museum of Modern Art. There's an asterisk to that, a
`cute story. I'll tell you. You don't need it on the
`record. But it's a lovely story about how nice the
`curator of the museum was.
`So it became hot. Bands wore them on album
`covers. I mean, it was the coolest thing in the world,
`the liquid bracelet in the '70s. Not the
`glow-in-the-dark ones. They came right after me.
`So it wasn't really a I left medical and I went
`into the fashion business. I was always pretty hip.
`And when I hit on this, oh, I'll start a company. And
`my ex-wife, the one that I traveled to Europe with, was
`
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`Page 25
`out of a job so she ran the day to day. We had about
`four or five employees and it was -- I learned a lot
`about running a company.
`Q.
`But after a year, you seem to have gone out of
`that --
`Well, yeah.
`A.
`-- line of work.
`Q.
`Well, that was always on the side. That was
`A.
`always a -- yeah, that was always -- that was
`moonlighting, if you will.
`And I had the blessing of Cutter because they
`supplied me the tubing. So I had a great boss. He
`understood that creativity begets creativity.
`Q.
`And after Liquid Bracelet Company you went back
`to engineering.
`A.
`Well, I never particularly left it.
`Q.
`Left it.
`A.
`Right. But American Hospital Supply, is that
`what you're looking at?
`Q.
`Yes.
`A.
`Yeah. That's -- that was a company, I don't
`know if you know anything about American Hospital
`Supply, they don't exist anymore, Baxter bought them a
`long time ago, but American Hospital Supply was
`basically a distributor. Then they got the idea, hey,
`
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`Page 26
`why don't we buy up all our suppliers, we'll make
`ourselves a company.
`So they bought a company called SMI. So the
`real name of this company became, it was American SMI, a
`division of American Hospital Supply. So I put American
`Hospital Supply because that's the name people know.
`But it was a pipe -- they made different kinds
`of pipettor systems, positive displacement, area
`displacement, and, yeah, they made a small micro pump.
`So that was sort of medical/laboratory.
`Q.
`So then you went to work for Raychem?
`A.
`Correct.
`Q.
`And what did you do there?
`A.
`Well, I was -- this was, once again, through a
`job shop and --
`Q.
`What do you mean by job shop? You mean like a
`job fair?
`A.
`Oh, okay.
`Q.
`What do you mean by job shop?
`A.
`Wow. You're too long. Also, you're a lawyer.
`So a job shop is an outfit that companies go to,
`and they can be medical companies, they can be not
`medical companies, and they're looking for an engineer,
`they're looking for a draftsperson, they're looking for
`a lab technician, whatever. So I guess, in a way,
`
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`they're like an employment agency except, technically,
`I'm -- I would be working for Company A, who then sells
`my services to Company B. So I'm actually paid by
`Company A, then if Company B wants to hire me, they have
`to pay off Company A. I think that's a model that's
`still around for other industries.
`Q.
`So through that mechanism you started working
`for --
`Raychem.
`A.
`-- Raychem. But as a consultant, not a
`Q.
`full-time employee?
`A.
`Correct. Well, no. That's the -- I'm sorry.
`That's -- well, I think you're right. I think I was
`paid by the, let's call it agency, but I was working for
`the industrial design group of Raychem, and we went
`around to different parts of Raychem and to help out.
`Q.
`What did you do for Raychem during that time
`period?
`Well, the main thing I did for Raychem -- and
`A.
`you've been to New York City?
`Q.
`I just came back from New York City.
`A.
`Oh, okay. So were you in the subways?
`Q.
`Yeah. I took the L Train to U.S. Open.
`A.
`Wait. The Women's Open? Oh, the tennis.
`Q.
`Tennis.
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`Tennis. I was at the women's golf open because
`A.
`I sponsor a gal who was in it and my niece's husband
`works for the USGA.
`Anyway, when you were on the subways, all the
`electrical connections in the subway, because, you know,
`they're all third-rail stuff, all the connections were
`insulated. When I was working for Raychem, they were
`not. So we were designing vacuum-formed, gel-lined
`enclosures to go over and cover electrical connections
`in the subways.
`There used to be about a death a year from some
`worker inadvertently touching something and so they
`finally decided, you know what? I mean, everybody was
`used to it, because the third rail is exposed. Right?
`They were used to having everything else exposed. But
`they thought, you know what? I think we can do better.
`So we were developing covers, enclosures,
`vacuum-formed, gel-filled. It was cutting-edge stuff.
`And then with tie wraps around. And it was pretty cool.
`But while I was doing that, Paul Cook, the
`president of Raychem, heard that there was a medical
`device guy working in his industrial design group. And
`this was -- ah, this was -- oh, it's not listed here.
`Well, it's not listed here as a job. I also invented
`the comet ball, I think it's listed somewhere on here as
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`an invention, the Halley's Comet Ball. It was another
`consumer product. And I did that while I was at
`Raychem, and sold a whole bunch of them. Anyway, like
`liquid bracelets.
`So Paul Cook wanted me to come to work at Menlo
`Care. So I left Raychem, started working at Menlo Care,
`which was not really -- it didn't belong to Raychem was
`Paul Cook's money was in it. One of those deals. So I
`worked at Menlo Care for a little while, and there are a
`couple of patents, I think at least two patents, that I
`am named inventor on at Menlo Care.
`Menlo Care was catheters, peripheral catheters,
`central line catheters, and the beauty part about these
`things was the polymer. The trade name was Aquavene.
`And it was a -- you know, most catheters are Teflon and
`they're a buck or something, 70 cents, they're just
`nothing, but this was the $4 catheter because it was --
`the material was such that you could put in a smaller
`gauge and make -- so the event was less traumatic. You
`could go two gauges, two sizes, down and when the
`catheter was in the blood vessel, the presence of blood,
`the water in the blood, the catheter would enlarge and
`also become soft. So it would tend to, you know, move
`with the vein. So you could keep that catheter i

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