Exhibit 2150
`
`IPR2017-00317
`REPLY TO CONDITIONAL MOTION TO AMEND
`
`VALENCELL, INC.
`EXHIBIT 2150 - PAGE 1
`
`
`
`IPR2017-00317
`REPLY TO CONDITIONAL MOTION TO AMEND
`
`VALENCELL, INC.
`EXHIBIT 2150 - PAGE 1
`
`
`
`UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`
`BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL
`
`Page 1
`
` _______________________________
`
` APPLE, INC., )
`
`PETITIONER, )
`
`vs. )
`
` VALENCELL, INC., )
`
`PATENT OWNER. )
`
` _______________________________)
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` CASE IPR2017-00317 (Patent 8,989,830 B2)
`
` CASE IPR2017-00318 (Patent 8,886,296 B2)
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`VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF BRIAN W.
`
` ANTHONY, PhD, called as a witness by and on behalf
`
` of the Patent Owner, pursuant to the applicable
`
` provisions of the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure
`
` and US PTO guidelines, before P. Jodi Ohnemus, RPR,
`
` RMR, CRR, CA-CSR #13192, NH-LSR #91, MA-CSR
`
` #123193, and Notary Public, within and for the
`
` Commonwealth of Massachusetts at MIT Medical
`
` Center, 45 Carlton Street, Cambridge,
`
` Massachusetts, on Wednesday, December 20, 2017,
`
` commencing at 10:00 a.m.
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`
`Mid-Atlantic Region
`
`1250 Eye Street NW - Suite 350
`
`Washington, D.C. 20005
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`215-241-1000 ~ 610-434-8588 ~ 302-571-0510 ~ 202-803-8830
`
`IPR2017-00317
`REPLY TO CONDITIONAL MOTION TO AMEND
`
`VALENCELL, INC.
`EXHIBIT 2150 - PAGE 2
`
`
`
` A P P E A R A N C E S :
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`Page 2
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`S T E R N E K E S S L E R G O L D S T E I N F O X
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`B Y : M i c h a e l D . S p e c h t , E s q .
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`- a n d -
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`( V i a I n t e r n e t a n d P h o n e )
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`J a s o n F i t z s i m m o n s , E s q .
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`1 1 0 0 N e w Y o r k A v e n u e
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`W a s h i n g t o n , D C 2 0 0 0 5
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`2 0 2 3 7 1 - 2 6 0 0
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`M s p e c h t @ s k g f . c o m
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`J f i t z s i m m o n s @ s k g f . c o m
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`- a n d -
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`( V i a I n t e r n e t a n d P h o n e )
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`S H O O K , H A R D Y & B A C O N , L . L . P .
`
`B Y : R y a n S c h l e t z b a u m , E s q .
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`2 5 5 5 G r a n d A v e n u e
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`K a n s a s C i t y , M O 6 4 1 0 8
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`8 1 6 4 7 4 - 6 5 5 0
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`R s c h l e t z b a u m @ s h b . c o m
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`F o r t h e P e t i t i o n e r
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`215-241-1000 ~ 610-434-8588 ~ 302-571-0510 ~ 202-803-8830
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`IPR2017-00317
`REPLY TO CONDITIONAL MOTION TO AMEND
`
`VALENCELL, INC.
`EXHIBIT 2150 - PAGE 3
`
`
`
` APPEARANCES: (CONT'D)
`
`Page 3
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`BRAGALONE CONROY, PC
`
`BY: T. William Kennedy, Esq.
`
`2200 Ross Avenue
`
`Suite 4500 - West
`
`Dallas, TX 75201
`
`Bkennedy@bcpc-law.com
`
`-and-
`
`(Via Internet and Phone)
`
`WARREN RHOADES, LLP
`
`BY: T. Scott Rhoades
`
`1212 Corporate Drive
`
`Irving, TX 7538
`
`972 550-2997
`
`Srhoades@wriplaw.com
`
`For the Patent Owner
`
` ALSO PRESENT:
`
`Carlo Barbieri, Video Operator
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`215-241-1000 ~ 610-434-8588 ~ 302-571-0510 ~ 202-803-8830
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`IPR2017-00317
`REPLY TO CONDITIONAL MOTION TO AMEND
`
`VALENCELL, INC.
`EXHIBIT 2150 - PAGE 4
`
`
`
`I N D E X
`
`Page 4
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` TESTIMONY OF:
`
`PAGE
`
` BRIAN W. ANTHONY, PhD
`
` (By Mr. Kennedy)
`
` (By Mr. Rhoades)
`
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`119, 183
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`IPR2017-00317
`REPLY TO CONDITIONAL MOTION TO AMEND
`
`VALENCELL, INC.
`EXHIBIT 2150 - PAGE 5
`
`
`
` E X H I B I T S
`
` EXHIBIT DESCRIPTION PAGE
`
`Page 5
`
` Exhibit previously marked 10
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` V-2010
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` Exhibit previously marked 21
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` V-2009
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` Exhibit previously marked 22
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` V-2010
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` Exhibit APL previously marked 24
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` 1102
`
` Exhibit APL previously marked 30
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` 1001
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` 1007
`
` Exhibit APL previously marked 88
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` Exhibit APL previously marked 114
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` 1005
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` Exhibit APL previously marked 120
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` 1103
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` Exhibit APL previously marked 132
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` 1104
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` Exhibit APL previously marked 162
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` 1102
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`IPR2017-00317
`REPLY TO CONDITIONAL MOTION TO AMEND
`
`VALENCELL, INC.
`EXHIBIT 2150 - PAGE 6
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` Exhibit APL
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`previously marked
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`Page 6
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`Veritext Legal Solutions
`215-241-1000 ~ 610-434-8588 ~ 302-571-0510 ~ 202-803-8830
`
`IPR2017-00317
`REPLY TO CONDITIONAL MOTION TO AMEND
`
`VALENCELL, INC.
`EXHIBIT 2150 - PAGE 7
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`Page 7
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` VIDEO OPERATOR: This will start tape
`
` labeled No. 1 of the videotaped deposition of Dr.
`
` Brian Anthony in the matter of Apple, Inc. versus
`
` Valencell --
`
` MR. KENNEDY: Valencell.
`
` VIDEO OPERATOR: -- Valencell, in the
`
` court -- United States Patent and Trademark Office,
`
` before the Patent Trial and Appeal Board, Case No.
`
` IPR 2017-00317 and IPR 2017-00318.
`
` This deposition is being held at MIT,
`
` Boston, Massachusetts on 12/20/2017 at
`
` approximately 10:02 a.m.
`
` My name's Carlo Barbieri from THP
`
` Reporting, Inc., and I'm the legal video
`
` specialist. The court reporter is Jodi Ohnemus, in
`
` association with THP Reporting.
`
` Will the counsel please introduce
`
` themselves.
`
` MR. KENNEDY: Bill Kennedy for patent
`
` owner Valencell, Inc.
`
` MR. SPECHT: Michael Specht for petitioner
`
` Apple, Inc.
`
` BRIAN W. ANTHONY, PhD, having
`
` satisfactorily been identified by
`
` the production of a driver's license,
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`215-241-1000 ~ 610-434-8588 ~ 302-571-0510 ~ 202-803-8830
`
`IPR2017-00317
`REPLY TO CONDITIONAL MOTION TO AMEND
`
`VALENCELL, INC.
`EXHIBIT 2150 - PAGE 8
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`Page 8
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`and being first duly sworn by the Notary
`
`Public, was examined and testified as
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`follows to interrogatories
`
` BY MR. KENNEDY:
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Good morning, Doctor Anthony.
`
`Good morning.
`
`Nice to see you again.
`
`I know everybody here knows who you are,
`
` but will you please introduce yourself again for
`
` the record.
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Dr. Brian W. Anthony.
`
`And what's your understanding of why
`
` you're here?
`
`A.
`
`As -- in support of my declaration -- to
`
` be deposed in support of my declaration.
`
`Q.
`
`And specifically you're here in support of
`
` your declaration filed in IPR 2017-00317; is that
`
` correct?
`
`A.
`
`Correct. I don't have the numbers
`
` memorized.
`
`Q.
`
`And that's for today.
`
`And if we finish that part for today,
`
` we'll continue on to IPR 2017-00318; correct?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Correct.
`
`So I'll be asking questions about your
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`215-241-1000 ~ 610-434-8588 ~ 302-571-0510 ~ 202-803-8830
`
`IPR2017-00317
`REPLY TO CONDITIONAL MOTION TO AMEND
`
`VALENCELL, INC.
`EXHIBIT 2150 - PAGE 9
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`Page 9
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` reply declarations, and then I'll finish my
`
` questions, and Mr. Rhoades on the phone will
`
` answer -- will ask you questions about your motion
`
` to amend declarations; is that fair?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. And this is your third deposition;
`
` correct?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. You haven't been deposed in the interim
`
` between the last time we saw each other and --
`
` A. Correct.
`
` Q. -- so like we did last time, I'd like to
`
` go over a few ground rules: Let's try not to talk
`
` over each other. I'll try to not talk over you
`
` when you're giving a -- your answer, but I'd like
`
` you to also let me finish asking my question before
`
` you begin answering; is that fair?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. And, then, for the court reporter and the
`
` record, if you have an answer to the question,
`
` please make it verbally, instead of physically.
`
` So an example is saying yes, instead of
`
` nodding your head; is that fair?
`
` A. Correct. Yes. Understood.
`
` Q. And, then, please make sure to listen to
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`215-241-1000 ~ 610-434-8588 ~ 302-571-0510 ~ 202-803-8830
`
`IPR2017-00317
`REPLY TO CONDITIONAL MOTION TO AMEND
`
`VALENCELL, INC.
`EXHIBIT 2150 - PAGE 10
`
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`Page 10
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` the question I ask. If you don't understand the
`
` question, please let me know. If you start
`
` answering, I'll assume that you understood the
`
` question; is that fair?
`
` A. Yes. And I'll ask you to repeat the
`
` question if I don't understand the question.
`
` Q. That -- that will be fine.
`
` And can I also get your agreement that you
`
` will not purposely evade the questions that I ask
`
` today?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. Can I get your agreement that you'll not
`
` purposely stall after I ask a question today?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. This goes into what we just asked about on
`
` the ground rules: This is your transcript from
`
` your -00318 deposition.
`
` And I'd like you to turn to page 80 of
`
` this transcript, and it's Valencell Exhibit 2010 in
`
` IPR 2017-00317.
`
` (Exhibit V-2010, previously marked.)
`
` Q. And I'm going to play for you a couple of
`
` minutes starting -- of your testimony, starting at
`
` page 80, line 19, and then I'd like to ask you a
`
` few questions about that testimony.
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`215-241-1000 ~ 610-434-8588 ~ 302-571-0510 ~ 202-803-8830
`
`IPR2017-00317
`REPLY TO CONDITIONAL MOTION TO AMEND
`
`VALENCELL, INC.
`EXHIBIT 2150 - PAGE 11
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` A. (Witness reviews document.) I'm sorry.
`
`Page 11
`
` Line 19, you said?
`
` Q. Yes, page 80, line 19.
`
` Can you see this okay?
`
` A. (Reviews screen.) Yes.
`
` Q. I'd like you to you watch the testimony.
`
` A. That's right.
`
` (Video playing:
`
` "Question: Does the plain and ordinary
`
` meaning of the term 'band' require it to
`
` be circular? MR. SPECHT: Objection.
`
` Asked and answered. Answer: A person
`
` reading that term in the claim would have
`
` understood that a band configured to at
`
` least partially encircles a portion of the
`
` body means that there is something
`
` encircling a portion of the body. And
`
` that would be a band encircling that.
`
` Question: Do you think the answer to
`
` my question is no? Answer: I believe
`
` I've answered your question several times,
`
` sir. Question: Okay. Yes or no: Does
`
` the plain, ordinary meaning of the term
`
` 'band,' as it appears in the '269 patent,
`
` require the band to be circular? MR.
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
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`
`IPR2017-00317
`REPLY TO CONDITIONAL MOTION TO AMEND
`
`VALENCELL, INC.
`EXHIBIT 2150 - PAGE 12
`
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`Page 12
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` SPECHT: Objection. Asked and answered.
`
` Answer: A person reading the claim would
`
` understand that the band partially
`
` encircles -- would understand that it
`
` would be generally cylindrical, meaning
`
` having a convex shape. Question: So was
`
` the answer to my question yes, no, or
`
` neither? Answer: The answer to your
`
` question, if you read it back to me, was
`
` the answer that I gave. Question: So you
`
` can't categorize that answer you gave as
`
` either a yes, a no, or a neither? Answer:
`
` The answer I gave was not a yes, or no, or
`
` a neither. Question: What was it, then?
`
` Answer: I will paraphrase. Question:
`
` I'm not asking you to say it again. I'm
`
` asking you to categorize it. Yes, no, or
`
` neither? Answer: It was the answer to
`
` your question. Question: And do you
`
` think that you're answering my questions
`
` truthfully? Answer: I do."
`
` (End of video playing.)
`
` Q. So having just watched the testimony from
`
` Valencell Exhibit 2010, starting at lines 80-19 and
`
` ending at line 82-6, do you still think that you
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`215-241-1000 ~ 610-434-8588 ~ 302-571-0510 ~ 202-803-8830
`
`IPR2017-00317
`REPLY TO CONDITIONAL MOTION TO AMEND
`
`VALENCELL, INC.
`EXHIBIT 2150 - PAGE 13
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`Page 13
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` were answering those questions truthfully?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` MR. SPECHT: Objection. Relevance.
`
` Q. And do you think that you were evading
`
` those questions in any way?
`
` MR. SPECHT: Objection. Relevance.
`
` A. I do not.
`
` Q. So do you intend to continue answering
`
` questions in that same fashion here today?
`
` A. I will answer the questions to the best of
`
` my ability.
`
` Q. Did you watch yourself on the video just
`
` then?
`
` MR. SPECHT: Objection. Relevance.
`
` A. I was going back and forth between
`
` watching and reading, as you put the text in front
`
` of me.
`
` Q. But you saw yourself on there; correct?
`
` A. I did.
`
` Q. Is it your opinion that you looked like
`
` you were giving truthful answers there?
`
` MR. SPECHT: Objection. Asked and
`
` answered. Relevance.
`
` A. Yes, I was giving truthful answers.
`
` Q. Now, it was your opinion that you looked
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
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`
`IPR2017-00317
`REPLY TO CONDITIONAL MOTION TO AMEND
`
`VALENCELL, INC.
`EXHIBIT 2150 - PAGE 14
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` like you weren't being evasive there?
`
` MR. SPECHT: Objection. Relevance.
`
` A. Yes, that is my opinion. I was not being
`
` evasive.
`
` Q. Would you have any objection to patent
`
` owner playing that testimony before the judges in
`
` this case during oral argument as an example of
`
` your testimony?
`
` MR. SPECHT: Objection. Relevance.
`
` A. I would not have any objection, but I
`
` would also highlight they should probably put it in
`
` full context. If -- I believe, if I skim through
`
` the rest of the testimony, this was after you
`
` asking the same question several times, and so I
`
` think at that point it was getting repetitive.
`
` Q. But no objection to playing that
`
` testimony, correct, in front of the judges?
`
` A. Correct.
`
` MR. SPECHT: Objection. Relevance.
`
` Witness is not an attorney and would not
`
` be the one to object to whether or not that
`
` testimony was played or not.
`
` Q. So sitting here today, is there any reason
`
` why you can't testify truthfully?
`
` A. There is not.
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
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`
`IPR2017-00317
`REPLY TO CONDITIONAL MOTION TO AMEND
`
`VALENCELL, INC.
`EXHIBIT 2150 - PAGE 15
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` Q. Is there any reason why your testimony
`
` here might be unreliable?
`
` A. There is not.
`
` Q. I understand you're getting paid an hourly
`
` rate by Apple for your testimony here today; is
`
` that correct?
`
` A. That is correct.
`
` Q. And you are paid an hourly rate for your
`
` declarations and the preparation that went into
`
` those also; correct?
`
` A. That is correct.
`
` Q. And what is that hourly rate?
`
` A. It's $350 an hour.
`
` Q. Have you received any other financial
`
` benefits from Apple, other than your work on this
`
` IPR?
`
` A. No, I have not.
`
` Q. No grants from Apple?
`
` A. No.
`
` Q. No grants from any companies related to
`
` Apple?
`
` MR. SPECHT: Objection. Relevance.
`
` Scope.
`
` A. Related to Apple? I have grants from
`
` companies through sponsored research.
`
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`IPR2017-00317
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`
`VALENCELL, INC.
`EXHIBIT 2150 - PAGE 16
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` Q. And so how would those companies be
`
` related to Apple, in your mind?
`
` A. I -- I don't know what you mean by
`
` "related," necessarily. There was no -- I received
`
` no sponsored research or any other remuneration
`
` from -- from Apple.
`
` Q. So no corporate relatives of Apple, like
`
` Apple Corp., versus Apple, Inc., or a subsidiary of
`
` Apple, or something like that?
`
` A. No.
`
` Q. Or a joint venture with Apple?
`
` A. No.
`
` Q. What did you do to prepare for this
`
` deposition today?
`
` A. I reviewed my declarations. I reviewed
`
` the patent owner response. I reviewed the -- the
`
` references in the patents.
`
` Q. And how much time did you spend preparing
`
` for today's deposition?
`
` A. I don't exactly know how much time I
`
` spent.
`
` Q. Do you have an estimate for how much time
`
` you spent preparing for today's deposition?
`
` A. Between 40 and 60 hours.
`
` Q. And what did you do during those 40 and 60
`
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`IPR2017-00317
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`VALENCELL, INC.
`EXHIBIT 2150 - PAGE 17
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` hours?
`
` A. As I said, I reviewed my declarations,
`
` reviewed the patent owner responses, had
`
` conversations with counsel.
`
` Q. Were there any particular prior art
`
` references that you were focused on during that
`
` time?
`
` A. I reviewed the prior art references that
`
` were cited in my -- in the original declaration and
`
` in the references cited in the response to the
`
` motion to amend, but I guess --
`
` COURT REPORTER: But I what?
`
` A. We're not addressing those. We're not
`
` dealing with those yet.
`
` Q. Focusing on the -- your declaration in
`
` support of petitioner's reply, were there any
`
` specific prior art references that you focused on
`
` in that review?
`
` A. Other than the ones that were mentioned in
`
` the -- in my response in the -- the original
`
` declaration, no.
`
` Q. Did you have any meetings to prepare for
`
` this deposition?
`
` A. I said I did meet with counsel.
`
` Q. Which counsel did you meet with?
`
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`VALENCELL, INC.
`EXHIBIT 2150 - PAGE 18
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` A. Jason Fitzsimmons, Kavon -- I forget
`
` Kevon's last name.
`
` Q. Did you meet with anyone else?
`
` A. I did not.
`
` Q. Did you speak with anyone else about your
`
` deposition today?
`
` A. I did not.
`
` Q. What firm is Kavon with?
`
` A. Same -- Michael's and Jason's firm.
`
` Q. How long was your meeting with Jason and
`
` Kavon?
`
` A. I'd have to look at my notes. I didn't --
`
` I keep track with emails and notebooks. I don't --
`
` I don't know how much time I spent.
`
` Q. I'm not asking you for -- in exact minutes
`
` and seconds. I'm just asking for an estimate.
`
` A. As I said, overall, between -- I'm
`
` guessing between 40 and 60 hours.
`
` Q. 40 and 60 hours meeting with --
`
` A. No. You asked for overall preparation
`
` time. So between reviewing documents and meetings.
`
` Q. And I'm just asking about the -- the
`
` meetings you had with Michael and Kavon -- or --
`
` sorry -- with Jason and Kavon.
`
` How long -- in an estimate -- did that
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
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`VALENCELL, INC.
`EXHIBIT 2150 - PAGE 19
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` last?
`
` A. I'd estimate between -- overall between
`
` five, ten hours.
`
` Q. When did this meeting take place?
`
` A. Be over the last several weeks, months.
`
` Q. So you've had multiple meetings with them?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. So when was the first meeting with them?
`
` A. I'd have to look at my calendar. Four
`
` weeks ago? Five weeks ago? I'm not sure,
`
` actually. I have to look at my calendar.
`
` Q. To prepare for this deposition you met
`
` with those two individuals four or five weeks --
`
` A. In -- in preparation for my -- in creating
`
` the -- my response and in preparation for this
`
` meeting and putting all of those together.
`
` Q. So while you were -- while you were
`
` drafting your declaration, you were also preparing
`
` for this deposition?
`
` Is that what you're saying?
`
` A. I'm saying that, in preparing my
`
` declaration, I had meetings with Kavon and Jason.
`
` And in preparing for my declaration, I also had
`
` meetings with them.
`
` Q. So I want to focus just specifically on
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
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`IPR2017-00317
`REPLY TO CONDITIONAL MOTION TO AMEND
`
`VALENCELL, INC.
`EXHIBIT 2150 - PAGE 20
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` preparing for today's deposition.
`
` When did you first have a meeting with
`
` Kavon and Jason to prepare for this deposition?
`
` A. For this deposition, again, I'd to look at
`
` the calendar, but I think two weeks, three weeks
`
` ago.
`
` It's been a busy time of the year, so I
`
` actually have to look at the calendar if you need
`
` an exact date.
`
` Q. How many total meetings have you had to
`
` prepare for this deposition after you submitted
`
` your declarations?
`
` A. My schedule this time of the year has been
`
` quite hectic -- so we've had a number of calls that
`
` have been short -- to squeeze in between my
`
` teaching schedule and -- and other meetings. So
`
` there's been a number of meetings.
`
` Q. Over ten?
`
` A. Not over ten.
`
` Q. Over five?
`
` A. Around five.
`
` Q. Around seven?
`
` A. Five is close to seven. Around there.
`
` Again, I'd have to look at my calendar to
`
` know the actual count.
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
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`
`IPR2017-00317
`REPLY TO CONDITIONAL MOTION TO AMEND
`
`VALENCELL, INC.
`EXHIBIT 2150 - PAGE 21
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` Q. Did you speak with anyone who's not at
`
` a -- who's not an attorney about this IPR?
`
` A. I did not.
`
` Q. Did you speak with anyone who's not an
`
` attorney about the IPR that ends in -00318?
`
` A. I did not.
`
` I don't know that number, but, I don't --
`
` Q. That's the -- so the initial questions
`
` here today are about -00317; and then, if we
`
` finish, it will be about the -00318, but -- so that
`
` we don't have to waste time, then.
`
` Sometimes if it's okay, we'll ask
`
` questions that are the same for both.
`
` A. That's fine.
`
` Q. So I'm handing you now Valencell Exhibit
`
` 2009.
`
` (Exhibit V-2009, previously marked.)
`
` Q. This is a transcript of your first
`
` deposition in the -00318 matter.
`
` Have you reviewed this transcript before?
`
` A. I've skimmed through it, yes.
`
` Q. You skimmed through it?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. Did you read all of your testimony to make
`
` sure it was all correct?
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
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`
`VALENCELL, INC.
`EXHIBIT 2150 - PAGE 22
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`Page 22
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` A. The testimony that I gave was truthful.
`
` Q. So you didn't say anything in your
`
` deposition on Wednesday, September 13th, 2017, in
`
` IPR 2017-00317 that was untruthful?
`
` A. No, not that I'm aware of.
`
` Q. In that deposition did you say anything
`
` that you wished you hadn't?
`
` A. Not that I'm aware of.
`
` Q. I'd like to ask you the same questions
`
` about Valencell Exhibit 2010 in IPR 2017-00317,
`
` which is your transcript from your deposition on
`
` Friday, September 15th, 2017.
`
` For that deposition did you read all of
`
` the testimony you made to make sure that it was
`
` correct?
`
` (Exhibit V-2010, previously marked.)
`
` MR. SPECHT: Objection. Relevance.
`
` A. Did I reread -- I skimmed through the --
`
` my testimony.
`
` Q. Why didn't you read the whole thing?
`
` A. I didn't feel it was necessary to reread
`
` the words that I had previously spoken.
`
` Q. You didn't want to check to make sure
`
` there weren't any mistakes that the court reporter
`
` made -- or that you made -- during that deposition?
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
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`IPR2017-00317
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`VALENCELL, INC.
`EXHIBIT 2150 - PAGE 23
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` A. I -- in skimming through it, I didn't
`
` catch any mistakes. I didn't feel that mistakes
`
` had likely been made.
`
` Q. Now, for this Friday, September 15th
`
` deposition, did you say anything that you wished
`
` you hadn't said?
`
` MR. SPECHT: Objection. Relevance.
`
` A. Not that I recall.
`
` Q. Did you say anything in that deposition
`
` that was wrong?
`
` MR. SPECHT: Objection. Relevance.
`
` A. Not that I recall.
`
` Q. Did you say anything in that deposition
`
` that was untruthful?
`
` MR. SPECHT: Objection. Relevance.
`
` Scope. Asked and answered.
`
` A. No.
`
` Q. Are you aware of pending district court
`
` litigation between Valencell, Inc. and Apple?
`
` MR. SPECHT: Objection. Relevance.
`
` Scope.
`
` A. Am I aware of -- I'm sorry.
`
` Q. Pending district court litigation between
`
` Valencell, Inc. and Apple?
`
` A. I'm aware of this case, and I'm aware that
`
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`IPR2017-00317
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`VALENCELL, INC.
`EXHIBIT 2150 - PAGE 24
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` there is a -- another case, yes.
`
` Q. Do you intend to testify at trial in that
`
` district court litigation between Valencell and
`
` Apple?
`
` MR. SPECHT: Objection. Scope.
`
` Relevance.
`
` A. I have not been asked to appear in court.
`
` Q. If you were asked to appear in court,
`
` would you -- for that case?
`
` MR. SPECHT: Objection. Scope.
`
` Relevance.
`
` A. I'd have to consider the request and what
`
` I was being asked to -- to testify on.
`
` Are we referring to this document anymore
`
` (indicating)?
`
` Q. We -- it's possible.
`
` A. Okay.
`
` Q. I'm moving on to a different one for now.
`
` So I'm handing you now Exhibit APL 1102 in
`
` IPR 2017-00317. This is your declaration in
`
` support of petitioner's reply.
`
` (Exhibit APL 1102, previously marked.)
`
` A. (Witness reviews document.)
`
` Q. Do you recognize Exhibit APL 1102?
`
` A. (Witness reviews document.) Yeah. It
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
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`VALENCELL, INC.
`EXHIBIT 2150 - PAGE 25
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` appears to be my declaration for patent -- what I
`
` call '830 -- the '830 patent.
`
` Q. If you turn to page 27 of Exhibit APL
`
` 1102, you see your signature on that page; correct?
`
` A. I do.
`
` Q. Is that your signature?
`
` A. It is.
`
` Q. By making that signature, what are you
`
` swearing?
`
` A. As I highlight on page 27, that all the
`
` statements are -- to my own knowledge, are true,
`
` and information and belief that I believe to be
`
` true; and the statements are made with the
`
` knowledge that willful false statements and the
`
` like are made punishable by fine or imprisonment.
`
` Q. What was your process for drafting APL
`
` 1102?
`
` A. I reviewed my original declaration. I
`
` reviewed the patent owner's response. I had
`
` conversations with -- with counsel.
`
` Q. Are there any positions that you take in
`
` your declaration APL 1102 that you conceived?
`
` A. I'm sorry. Are there any declarations --
`
` Q. In your declaration for the reply, are
`
` there -- are there any positions that you make that
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
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`VALENCELL, INC.
`EXHIBIT 2150 - PAGE 26
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` you conceived?
`
` A. These are my opinions formed on review of
`
` the relevant documents and in conversations with --
`
` with counsel.
`
` Q. Do you think you just answered my question
`
` without being evasive?
`
` A. Yes, I do.
`
` Q. So I asked you --
`
` A. So this is a --
`
` Q. -- in your declaration for petitioner's
`
` reply, are there any positions that you take that
`
` you conceived?
`
` A. My position here -- these are my opinions,
`
` my declaration, and incorporate, sort of, my
`
` understanding of -- of appropriate responses to the
`
` positions that the patent owner took and the exact
`
` evolution of particular statements, sort of,
`
` collaborative in nature. We talked about the
`
` issues. So all of the -- all of the -- everything
`
` here is my -- my declaration, my opinions.
`
` Q. So what I'm hearing from you is that you
`
` cannot point to any positions that you take in your
`
` declaration for the reply that you conceived
`
` yourself.
`
` MR. SPECHT: Objection. Mischaracterizes
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
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`
`VALENCELL, INC.
`EXHIBIT 2150 - PAGE 27
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`Page 27
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` the witness's testimony.
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` A. That's not what I said. These are all my
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` opinions. This is what I have signed and declared.
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` Q. Can you point me to a particular paragraph
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` that includes a position in your reply that you
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` conceived?
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` A. (Witness reviews document.) So I'll start
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` at paragraph 5, as an instance: "Valencell's
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` proposed interpretation of 'cladding material' as a
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` material that confines light within a region is not
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` the broadest reasonable interpretation --" in
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` terms of -- "in light of the '830 patent."
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` Another example, paragraph 8: "In my
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` opinion, Valencell's proposed interpretation of a
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` light-guiding interface as an interface that
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` delivers light along the path is not the broadest
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` reasonable interpretation."
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` So these are all my opinions. It's
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` conceived from -- based on my original declaration
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` and the -- in reviewing the patent owner's
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` response.
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` Q. How much of the declaration in APL 1102
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` did you draft?
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` A. It was a collaborative effort in terms of
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` writing it, and all the opinions are mine. I may
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`215-241-1000 ~ 610-434-8588 ~ 302-571-0510 ~ 202-803-8830
`
`IPR2017-00317
`REPLY TO CONDITIONAL MOTION TO AMEND
`
`VALENCELL, INC.
`EXHIBIT 2150 - PAGE 28
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` not have typed every -- every single word, but this
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` is -- represents my opinions that I swear to.
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` Q. So y
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