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`UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`MYLAN PHARMACEUTICALS INC., )
`Petitioner,
`) CASE IPR2017-00203
`) PATENT 6,649,180
`vs.
`)
`QUALICAPS CO., LTD.,
`Patent Owner. )
`
`DEPOSITION OF ARTHUR H. KIBBE, PH.D.
`Moosic, Pennsylvania
`October 6, 2017
`
`Reported by:
`Maureen Broderick, RPR
`JOB NO. 131264
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`Mylan v. Qualicaps, IPR2017-00203
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`UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`MYLAN PHARMACEUTICALS INC., )
`Petitioner,
`) CASE IPR2017-00203
`) PATENT 6,649,180
`vs.
`)
`QUALICAPS CO., LTD.,
`Patent Owner. )
`
`DEPOSITION OF ARTHUR H. KIBBE, PH.D.
`Moosic, Pennsylvania
`October 6, 2017
`
`Reported by:
`Maureen Broderick, RPR
`JOB NO. 131264
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` October 6, 2017
` 8:55 a.m.
`
` Oral deposition of ARTHUR H. KIBBE, PH.D.,
`taken at Courtyard Marriott Scranton, 16 Glenmaura
`National Boulevard, Moosic, Pennsylvania, before
`Maureen E. Broderick, Registered Professional
`Reporter and Notary Public in and of the
`Commonwealth of Pennsylvania.
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`APPEARANCES
`KILPATRICK TOWNSEND & STOCKTON
`Attorneys for Petitioner
` 1100 Peachtree Street, N.E.
` Atlanta, Georgia 30309
`BY: D. CLAY HOLLOWAY, ESQUIRE
`
`COVINGTON & BURLING
`Attorneys for Patent Owner
` One CityCenter
` 850 Tenth Street, N.W.
` Washington, D.C. 20001
`BY: SCOTT KAMHOLZ, M.D., PH.D., ESQUIRE
`BY: JESSICA PAREZO, ESQUIRE
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` EXAMINATION INDEX
`WITNESS PAGE
`Arthur H. Kibbe, Ph.D.
` By Mr. Kamholz 5
`
` EXHIBIT INDEX
`NAME DESCRIPTION PAGE
`Kibbe
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` A. Kibbe, Ph.D.
` - - -
` ARTHUR H. KIBBE, having been
` first duly sworn to tell the
` truth, was examined and
` testified as follows:
` - - -
` MR. HOLLOWAY: Read and sign.
` MR. KAMHOLZ: No stipulations.
` - - -
` EXAMINATION
` - - -
`BY MR. KAMHOLZ:
` Q Please state your full name and spell it
`for the record.
` A Arthur H. Kibbe, A-R-T-H-U-R, H. middle
`initial, Kibbe, K-I-B-B-E.
` Q Has your address changed since your last
`deposition in this case in June 2017?
` A No.
` Q Has your employment status changed since
`your last deposition in this case in June 2017?
` A No.
` Q Are there any other changes to your
`personal or professional status since June 2017 that
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` A. Kibbe, Ph.D.
`are relevant to this proceeding?
` A No.
` Q And your retention in this matter still is
`as an expert, not as a fact witness, correct?
` A Yes.
` Q Is there any reason you cannot testify
`truthfully today?
` A No.
` Q No illness, medication or other
`circumstance that would affect your ability to give
`truthful testimony?
` A No.
` Q I will -- I'm sure you've done this
`before. I will ask you questions, and you will
`endeavor to answer them to the best of your ability.
`We will both try not to interrupt one another so
`that the court reporter can follow what we're saying
`for the record.
` Does that make sense?
` A Yes.
` Q And, of course, your attorney may object
`to some of the questions, but unless he instructs
`you not to answer, you must answer the question.
`Understood?
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` A. Kibbe, Ph.D.
` A Yes.
` Q Please let me know if you need to take a
`break at any point, but I ask that you not take
`breaks while a question is pending. Okay?
` A Yes.
` Q What did you do to prepare for your
`deposition today?
` A I read my reply document and the document
`of Dr. McConville and some of the background
`information to those two documents.
` Q You say "the document of Dr. McConville."
`Which document do you mean?
` A He wrote a declaration.
` Q So you reviewed Dr. McConville's
`declaration?
` A Right.
` Q You said you also considered some of the
`background information of those two documents.
` A Yes, I did.
` Q What do you mean by that?
` A The patent itself that's at issue and then
`the Yamamoto patent that we used to establish our
`position, and I think that's about it.
` Q So you reviewed the, your reply
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`A. Kibbe, Ph.D.
`declaration, Dr. McConville's declaration, the '180
`patent at issue in this proceeding and the Yamamoto
`prior art patent?
` A Right.
` Q Did you meet with anyone?
` A I met with Clay for a few hours yesterday.
` Q Did you meet with anyone else?
` A No.
` Q Did you review the documents you mentioned
`earlier with Mr. Holloway?
` A Yes.
` Q You didn't discuss your testimony with
`anyone other than Mr. Holloway, correct?
` A That's right.
` Q So aside from meeting with Mr. Holloway
`and reviewing those documents, you didn't do
`anything else to prepare for the deposition today?
`MR. HOLLOWAY: Objection. Form.
`THE WITNESS: Not that I can remember.
`MR. KAMHOLZ: Okay. I'm giving the
` witness a copy of a document previously marked
` as Exhibit 1029 in this proceeding.
`BY MR. KAMHOLZ:
` Q Do you recognize this exhibit?
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`A. Kibbe, Ph.D.
`MS. PAREZO: I apologize.
`THE WITNESS: This is the original, not
` the reply, unless you want me to look at it.
`MR. KAMHOLZ: Our mistake.
`BY MR. KAMHOLZ:
` Q Now, do you recognize this exhibit?
` A Yes, I did.
` Q What is it?
` A It's my reply report or declaration.
` Q Does -- so Exhibit 1029 is your reply
`declaration, correct?
` A Right.
` Q Does it contain your testimony?
` A It contains my opinions, yes.
` Q And here today, you stand by your
`testimony in Exhibit 1029, correct?
` A Yes.
` Q Would you please turn to page 6 of
`Exhibit 1029. Is that your signature at the end?
` A Yes, it is.
` Q And you see your signature on page 6 of
`Exhibit 1029 is dated September 15, 2017?
` A Yes, it is.
` Q Is September 15, 2017 the day you signed
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`A. Kibbe, Ph.D.
`
`the exhibit?
` A Yes.
` Q Thank you. With attention to paragraph
`21, what is perjury?
` A Lying, I guess, in a legal situation. I
`have just a general idea of it. That's a legal
`term.
` Q Did you know what perjury is when you
`signed Exhibit 1029 on September 15, 2017?
` A Yes.
` Q What does "penalty of perjury" mean?
` A It means that there's legal remedies if
`you commit perjury.
` Q Did you know what "penalty of perjury"
`means when you signed Exhibit 1029 on September 15,
`2017?
` A In a general sense, yes.
` Q Do you know what the penalties of perjury
`are?
` A Not specifically.
` Q Do you know what U.S. federal law governs
`perjury?
` A No.
` Q Please turn to page 3 of Exhibit 1029,
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`A. Kibbe, Ph.D.
`with attention to paragraph three.
` A Page 3?
` Q Page 3, paragraph three.
` A That's not right. Paragraph three is on
`page 2. Paragraph eight is on page 3.
` Q Excuse me. Page 2, paragraph three.
`Forgive me.
`
`Do you see in paragraph three of
`Exhibit 1029 it's written, quote, I was specifically
`asked about the preparation of my declaration and
`noted then that I did not have the petition when I
`drafted my previous declaration, unquote.
`Is that your testimony?
`
` A Yes.
` Q What do you mean by, quote, My previous
`declaration, end quote?
` A The original declaration I wrote in this
`case.
` Q You mean Exhibit 1011?
` A I don't know what the exhibit number is,
`but...
`
`MR. KAMHOLZ: I'm giving the witness a
` copy of a document previously marked 1011 in
` this proceeding.
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` A. Kibbe, Ph.D.
`BY MR. KAMHOLZ:
` Q Do you recognize this document?
` A Yes, this was my original declaration.
` Q Is this the exhibit, this is the document
`you're referring to when you referred to "in my
`previous declaration"?
` A Yes.
` Q Going back to paragraph three on page 2 of
`your reply declaration. Your testimony is that you
`did not have the petition when you drafted your
`original declaration, Exhibit 1011, correct?
` A That's correct.
` Q No part of it?
` A Not that I remember having any part of it,
`no. I've had the patent, obviously, and background
`information and stuff from my own office, but...
` Q But no part of, no part of the petition?
` A I don't believe I did.
` Q Referring to paragraph four on page 2, you
`state your understanding of the patent owner's
`argument, correct?
` A Yes.
` Q You do not identify documents you based
`your understanding on, though, correct?
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` A. Kibbe, Ph.D.
` A I don't mark it down here, no.
` Q Continuing on paragraph, on Exhibit 1029,
`back up to paragraph two, you see there it says,
`quote, I have reviewed the deposition of the
`inventor, Mr. Tanjoh and reviewed the response and
`materials submitted by the patent owner and
`Dr. McConville's deposition taken in August of 2017.
` Is that your testimony?
` A Yes, it is.
` Q Can you tell me, document by document,
`what you reviewed?
` MR. HOLLOWAY: Objection. Form.
` THE WITNESS: Okay. So -- okay. Let's
` see. There was a deposition of the patent
` holder. And in it, they referred to various
` items from his own research or testing, and
` that all is listed in paragraph five. Okay?
` So I looked at those documents. You see
` paragraph five.
`BY MR. KAMHOLZ:
` Q Yes.
` A Then I reviewed Dr. McConville's
`declaration and his deposition. Okay?
` Q Okay.
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` A. Kibbe, Ph.D.
` A Okay. And there is -- if I remember
`correctly, the document that is the position of the
`patent owner before the IPR --
` Q You mean the patent owner response?
` A Well, whatever it's called.
` Q Well, in paragraph two, you say you
`reviewed the response.
` A Right. That's the --
` Q By that, you mean the patent owner
`response?
` A Right.
` MR. KAMHOLZ: I'm giving the witness a
` document. We'll call this Kibbe Exhibit 1.
` (Exhibit Kibbe-1 was marked for
` identification.)
` MR. HOLLOWAY: For the court reporter,
` most of them are pre-marked.
` THE WITNESS: This one is not.
`BY MR. KAMHOLZ:
` Q The response is not an exhibit, so it's
`not marked with an exhibit number.
` A Right. But the others have them.
` Q Just to get back on track, you considered
`the patent owner response?
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` A. Kibbe, Ph.D.
` A Yes.
` Q You say you also, in paragraph two, you
`say you considered the material submitted by the
`patent owner.
` Do you mean material submitted by the
`patent owner with the response?
` A I think so. I think there was
`attachments. You got me now. I'm trying to
`remember. I think there were additional
`information, either -- attached, but I can't
`remember specifically.
` Q Well, there are a number of exhibits that
`the patent owner refers to in the course of the
`patent owner response, and I'm asking to confirm
`whether you reviewed the exhibits referred to in the
`response. We can --
` MR. HOLLOWAY: Why don't you ask him the
` question, then.
` THE WITNESS: So I reviewed the exhibits
` referred to, because in order to understand the
` response, you have to go back to the original
` documents. So like the Dow stuff.
` MR. KAMHOLZ: I'm giving the witness a
` copy of the document produced and marked
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` A. Kibbe, Ph.D.
` Exhibit 2001 in this proceeding.
`BY MR. KAMHOLZ:
` Q What is this document? Do you recognize
`it, I should say?
` A A lot of dead space. Yes, I remember this
`document.
` Q Did you consider Exhibit 2001 in preparing
`your reply declaration?
` A I might have briefly looked it through,
`but I was looking for the specific references that I
`made to it, which, off the top of my head, I don't
`remember the pages, but...
` MR. KAMHOLZ: I'm giving the witness a
` copy of a document previously marked
` Exhibit 2003 in this proceeding.
`BY MR. KAMHOLZ:
` Q Do you recognize this document?
` A Yes.
` Q What is it?
` A It's an excerpt from the Handbook of
`Pharmaceutical Excipients, Second Edition.
` Q Did you consider this document in
`preparing your reply declaration?
` A Yes.
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` A. Kibbe, Ph.D.
` MR. KAMHOLZ: I'm giving the witness a
` copy of a document previously marked
` Exhibit 2015 in this proceeding.
`BY MR. KAMHOLZ:
` Q Do you recognize this document?
` A Yes.
` Q What is it?
` A This is an excerpt from the USP-23/NF18.
` Q Did you consider this document in
`preparing your reply declaration?
` A Yes, I think I looked at it. And I don't
`think it was significant, because we were basing
`most of what we discussed in terms of official
`compendia on the Japanese Pharmacopeia.
` MR. KAMHOLZ: I'm giving the witness a
` copy of a document previously marked Exhibit
` 2016 in this proceeding.
`BY MR. KAMHOLZ:
` Q Do you recognize this document?
` A Yes. This is an excerpt from the Japanese
`Pharmacopeia that we referred to in my declaration.
` MR. KAMHOLZ: I'm giving the witness a
` copy of a document previously marked Exhibit
` 2017 in this proceeding.
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` A. Kibbe, Ph.D.
`BY MR. KAMHOLZ:
` Q Do you recognize this document?
` A Yeah. This is a promotional piece from
`the manufacturers of Methocel, which are cellulous
`ethers.
` MR. KAMHOLZ: I'm giving the witness a
` copy of a document previously marked
` Exhibit 2028 in this proceeding.
`BY MR. KAMHOLZ:
` Q Do you recognize this document?
` A This is Dr. McConville's declaration.
` Q I believe you said earlier that you did
`review this document?
` A I did.
` Q And you reviewed it, and you reviewed it
`in preparation of this reply declaration, correct?
` A Yes.
` Q So your testimony in Exhibit 1029 is
`based, at least in part, on your consideration of
`the materials that I've just handed you, correct?
` A Yes.
` MR. HOLLOWAY: Objection to form.
`BY MR. KAMHOLZ:
` Q Turning back to Exhibit 1029, please, on
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` A. Kibbe, Ph.D.
`page 4, paragraph 13. Do you see that you cite
`Exhibit 2017 there?
` A Yes.
` Q Do you cite any evidence, other than
`Exhibit 2017, in paragraph 13?
` A No. That's the only thing I cite to.
` Q So you would agree that your testimony in
`paragraph 13 relies on Exhibit 2017 and on no other
`cited evidence?
` MR. HOLLOWAY: Objection. Form.
` THE WITNESS: That's correct.
`BY MR. KAMHOLZ:
` Q Looking at paragraph 14, do you see you
`cite to Exhibit 2017 there, as well?
` A Yes.
` Q And turning to page 5 of this declaration,
`paragraph 16, you cite to Exhibit 2017 --
` A Where?
` Q I'm sorry, page 5 of Exhibit 1029,
`paragraph 16.
` A Okay.
` Q You cite Exhibit 2017 there, as well,
`correct?
` A And to Yamamoto, right? I later mention
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` A. Kibbe, Ph.D.
`him, right? We cite to him as well.
` Q Now, in paragraph 17, later on that page,
`you see that you cite Exhibit 2017 in several
`sentences of that paragraph, the first sentence,
`second sentence, the fourth sentence and the fifth
`sentence, correct?
` A First sentence, the second sentence, the
`third sentence and the fourth sentence, right?
` Q The first sentence, the second sentence,
`the fourth sentence and the fifth sentence.
` A So I cite to it on the third sentence
`also, right? That's the Methocel catalog explains
`how viscosity can be manipulated. And then the
`fourth --
` Q I count that as the fourth sentence.
` A Oh, I see. That's because of that short
`one. Right. And then the fifth one, right?
` Q Do you agree?
` A Yeah. I cite it several times during that
`paragraph, right.
` Q So would you agree that your testimony in
`sentences one, two, four and five of paragraph 17 of
`Exhibit 1029 relies on Exhibit 2017 and on no other
`cited evidence?
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` A. Kibbe, Ph.D.
` MR. HOLLOWAY: Objection. Form.
` THE WITNESS: Well, it does -- okay. So
` by carving out Yamamoto, that paragraph, then,
` uses that exhibit in Yamamoto in the
` discussion, right? Because the sentence you
` skip over is a reference to Yamamoto.
`BY MR. KAMHOLZ:
` Q Would you turn back to page 2 of
`Exhibit 1029, in paragraph four -- excuse me. My
`mistake -- page 4, paragraph 15.
` A Okay.
` Q Do you see in that paragraph, that is
`paragraph 15, that you cite to Exhibit 2035?
` A Yes.
` MR. KAMHOLZ: I'm giving the witness a
` copy of a document previously marked
` Exhibit 2035 in this proceeding.
`BY MR. KAMHOLZ:
` Q Do you recognize this document?
` A Yes. This is a second document prepared
`by Dow describing their cellulose ethers.
` Q And you see you cite this exhibit in
`paragraph 15 of Exhibit 1029?
` A Yes.
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` A. Kibbe, Ph.D.
` Q In fact, you quote from it, right?
` A Well, I think the quote just is emphasis.
`I don't think that word, those words come directly
`out of the exhibit.
` The exhibit talks about the nature of
`the gel structure for each of them, and it says it's
`the same. And then I say the gel structures, in
`general, rather than an actual quote. So the quotes
`are just for...
` Q Just for?
` A Well, just for -- so you're clear that
`that information comes from this, that table.
` Q Would you please turn to page 30 of 40 in
`Exhibit 2035. The page numbers are indicated in the
`lower right-hand corner.
` A Yes.
` Q The lower right-hand corner, page 30?
` A I thought you said 20.
` Q Page 30 of 40.
` A Okay. I'm sorry. I'm on page 20. Okay.
` Q Do you see, in the middle of the left-hand
`column at table, marked table 6?
` MR. HOLLOWAY: Are you saying 30 of 40 or
` page 30 in the lower left-hand column?
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` A. Kibbe, Ph.D.
`BY MR. KAMHOLZ:
` Q Thirty of 40.
` A Okay. Well, that's that number instead of
`that number. Okay. You understand that this
`designation is different than the actual pages on
`the --
` Q Yes. That's why I specified page 30 of 40
`with the page numbers specified in the lower
`right-hand corner.
` MR. HOLLOWAY: Then you said lower
` left-hand column.
` THE WITNESS: And they're in the lower
` right. But that's okay. I was looking at --
` okay.
`BY MR. KAMHOLZ:
` Q In the left-hand column, do you see a
`table marked "Table 6"?
` A Here we are. Right.
` Q In the left-hand column, do you see a
`marked "Table 6"?
` A Right.
` Q And do you see a heading in that table
`marked "Gel Structure"?
` A Yes. "Gel temperatures and structures,"
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` A. Kibbe, Ph.D.
`right.
` Q Is that what you quoted from
`Exhibit 2035 --
` MR. HOLLOWAY: Objection.
`BY MR. KAMHOLZ:
` Q -- in paragraph 15?
` A Well, I didn't quote it, I referred to it.
` I just want to make sure that you
`understood that that gel structure refers to the
`designation underneath the heading Gel Structures.
` Q Turning back to Exhibit 1029, paragraph
`15, do you cite any evidence in paragraph 15, other
`than Exhibit 2035?
` MR. HOLLOWAY: Objection. Form.
` THE WITNESS: No.
`BY MR. KAMHOLZ:
` Q So would you agree that your testimony in
`paragraph 15 of Exhibit 1029 relies on Exhibit 2035
`and on no other cited evidence?
` MR. HOLLOWAY: Objection. Form.
` THE WITNESS: That's what I'm referring to
` when I make these statements, yes.
`BY MR. KAMHOLZ:
` Q Turning back to page 2 of Exhibit 1029,
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` A. Kibbe, Ph.D.
`paragraph two, do you state in paragraph two of
`Exhibit 1029 that you considered Exhibits 2067,
`2068, 2069, 2070, 2071, or 2072?
` A Okay. So that's what I say in paragraph
`five.
` Q Sorry. Did you state in paragraph two of
`Exhibit 1029 that you considered Exhibits 2067,
`2068, 2069, 2070, 2071, or 2072?
` A I don't specifically spell them out in
`paragraph two. I spell them out in paragraph five.
` Q Do you state in any other paragraph of
`Exhibit 1029 that you considered Exhibits 2067,
`2068, 2069, 2070, 2071, or 2072? I should say any
`paragraph, other than paragraph two?
` A Okay. So be clear. I lay out the
`exhibits that were discussed, and I say in two that
`I considered the exhibits and the testimony of
`Mr. Tanjoh. And so these just delineate the things
`that we looked at. I don't know how else to answer
`that.
` Q I'm not asking you whether you considered
`them.
` A Okay.
` Q I'm asking whether you state in your
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` A. Kibbe, Ph.D.
`declaration that you considered them?
` A I implied that.
` Q But you didn't state it?
` A I said that I reviewed his deposition and
`the response and materials submitted, and so these
`are documents that were discussed at his deposition,
`and then I looked at those documents.
` Q I'm referring now to paragraph five on
`page 2 of Exhibit 1029.
` A Paragraph five.
` Q In that paragraph you state, quote, I note
`that in Mr. Tanjoh's deposition he identified the
`documents that supported the experiments leading to
`the '180 patent, Exhibits 2064, (33:3-34:20) 2065,
`2066, 2067, 2068, 2069, 2070, 2071, 2072.
` Is that your testimony?
` A Yes.
` MR. KAMHOLZ: I'm giving the witness a
` document previously marked in this proceeding
` as Exhibit 2064.
`BY MR. KAMHOLZ:
` Q I'm giving you the redacted, public
`version of this exhibit, as filed in this
`proceeding, okay?
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` A. Kibbe, Ph.D.
` A Okay.
` Q Do you recognize this document?
` A Yes.
` Q What is it?
` A It's the deposition of the inventor,
`Mr. Tanjoh, with a lot of stuff taken out.
` Q Please turn to page 33.
` A Okay.
` Q Please tell me where in the range of
`page 33, line 3, to page 34, line 20 that Mr. Tanjoh
`identified Exhibit 2067, 2068, 2069, 2070, 2071, or
`2072 as supporting the experiments leading to the
`'180 patent.
` A Okay. So not exactly clear what you're
`driving at. But on the previous page, of course, he
`testified that he performed the experiments and
`then --
` Q I'm sorry, what page are you referring to?
` A Well -- okay. So at 32 --
` Q Is that a page that you cited in your
`reply declaration?
` MR. HOLLOWAY: Finish your answer, Art.
` THE WITNESS: On page 32, if you read it,
` he --
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`A. Kibbe, Ph.D.
`
`BY MR. KAMHOLZ:
` Q No. No. No. I have a question, which
`is, did you see --
`MR. HOLLOWAY: No. No. You asked a
` question, and he started answering the
` question, and then you interrupted him with a
` new question. So he's going to finish his
` first question.
`MR. KAMHOLZ: I did not interrupt him.
`MR. HOLLOWAY: Yes, you did.
`MR. KAMHOLZ: My first question --
`MR. HOLLOWAY: Art, were you done with
` your answer? Art, were you done with your
` answer?
`THE WITNESS: Not yet.
`MR. HOLLOWAY: Then finish your answer,
` please.
`THE WITNESS: Okay. So first, when you
` read the entire document, you know that he is
` the inventor and, therefore, has performed the
` experiments.
`And then on the page cited, he says that
` he turned all of those experiments over to
` counsel. And so from that, I obtained from
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`A. Kibbe, Ph.D.
` counsel these documents that were the
` experiments that he performed, and they were
` listed here.
`BY MR. KAMHOLZ:
` Q Have you finished your answer?
` A I think so.
` Q Now, when you said "the page cited," what
`page were you referring to?
` A Well, 33, 3 through 34, okay? So...
` Q In your earlier answer, your incomplete
`answer, you started to refer to page 32; is that
`correct?
` A Yes. Because that establishes, in my
`mind, that he's saying, yes, I did the experiments,
`and then he said, I turned over those experiments,
`and they were in the form of lab notebooks. And
`that's the pages from the lab notebooks or the
`sections in the lab notebooks that we referred to as
`documents on paragraph five.
` Q You didn't cite page 32 in your reply
`declaration, did you?
` A No. I cited 33, 3 through 34, at 20.
` Q So my question was, please tell me where,
`in the range from 33, line 3, to page 34, line 20,
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`A. Kibbe, Ph.D.
`that Mr. Tanjoh identified Exhibit 2067, 2068, 2069,
`2070, 2071, or 2072 as supporting the experiments
`leading to the '180 patent?
`MR. HOLLOWAY: Objection. Form. Asked
` and answered.
`THE WITNESS: He did not number them the
` way they are numbered here. He did refer to --
` so -- the fact that he has records of the
` experiments that were used and those records
` were provided to counsel.
`And I assume that these numbers are for
` this proceeding and not necessarily the numbers
` that would have been given to those lab
` notebooks by Mr. Tanjoh as he was working on
` the project.
`BY MR. KAMHOLZ:
` Q Referring now to paragraph six on page 2
`of Exhibit 1029.
` A Yes.
` Q It's on page 2 of Exhibit 1029. In that
`paragraph, you state, quote, None of these exhibits
`shows any analysis of the chemical makeup of the
`undesirable precipitants of table 1, end quote.
`Is that your testimony?
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` A. Kibbe, Ph.D.
` A Yes.
` Q And you reviewed table 1 of the '180
`patent when you prepared your original declaration,
`correct?
` A Yes.
` Q Continuing in paragraph six of
`Exhibit 1029, you state, quote, I note
`Dr. McConville agrees with me that the '180 patent
`does not describe any analysis of the chemical
`makeup of the undesirable spots, unquote.
` Is that your testimony?
` A Yes.
` Q You say Dr. McConville agrees with you.
`So is it your testimony that the '180 patent does
`not describe any analysis of the chemical makeup to
`the undesirable spots?
` A Yes, it doesn't describe an analysis.
`They make a statement that they put in there,
`unsupported by data.
` Q You do not cite any evidence in support of
`your assertion that Dr. McConville agreed that the
`'180 patent does not describe any analysis of the
`chemical makeup of the undesirable spots, correct?
` A I didn't reference it, part or an exhibit
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` A. Kibbe, Ph.D.
`where he said that. But we can go back through all
`of his documents. I think the deposition --
`he'll -- will show that you he agrees with that.
` Q You reviewed the '180 patent when you
`prepared your origi
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