·1· · ·UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`· · · ·BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`·2
`· · ·-------------------------x
`·3· · · · · · · · · · · · · · :
`· · ·APPLE INC.· · · · · · · ·:
`·4· · · · · · · · · · · · · · :
`· · ·VS.· · · · · · · · · · · : Case IPR2016-001842
`·5· · · · · · · · · · · · · · :· · · IPR2016-001860
`· · ·PAPST LICENSING GMBH &· ·:· · · IPR2016-001863
`·6· ·CO., KG· · · · · · · · · :· · · IPR2016-001864
`· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · :
`·7· ·-------------------------x
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`11· · · · · · · · · ·Deposition of
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`12· · · · · · · · ·THOMAS A. GAFFORD
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`13· · · · · · · · · ·Austin, Texas
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`14· · · · · · Wednesday, October 11, 2017
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`15· · · · · · · · · · 10:05 a.m.
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`22· ·Job No.:· 4-252434
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`23· ·Pages:· 1 - 108
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`24· ·Reported by:· Micheal A. Johnson, RDR, CRR
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`25
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`Apple 1056
`IPR2016-01842
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`· · · ·BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`·2
`· · ·-------------------------x
`·3· · · · · · · · · · · · · · :
`· · ·APPLE INC.· · · · · · · ·:
`·4· · · · · · · · · · · · · · :
`· · ·VS.· · · · · · · · · · · : Case IPR2016-001842
`·5· · · · · · · · · · · · · · :· · · IPR2016-001860
`· · ·PAPST LICENSING GMBH &· ·:· · · IPR2016-001863
`·6· ·CO., KG· · · · · · · · · :· · · IPR2016-001864
`· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · :
`·7· ·-------------------------x
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`11· · · · · · · · · ·Deposition of
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`12· · · · · · · · ·THOMAS A. GAFFORD
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`13· · · · · · · · · ·Austin, Texas
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`14· · · · · · Wednesday, October 11, 2017
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`15· · · · · · · · · · 10:05 a.m.
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`22· ·Job No.:· 4-252434
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`23· ·Pages:· 1 - 108
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`24· ·Reported by:· Micheal A. Johnson, RDR, CRR
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`25
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`Apple 1056
`IPR2016-01842
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`·1· · · · · · · Deposition of THOMAS A. GAFFORD,
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`·2· ·held at the location of:
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`·3
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`·4
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`·5· · · · ·DiNovo Price Ellwanger LLP
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`·6· · · · ·7000 North Mopac Expressway, Suite 350
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`·7· · · · ·Austin, Texas 78731
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`·8· · · · ·(512) 539-2626
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`13· · · · · · · Pursuant to Notice, before Micheal
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`14· ·A. Johnson, Registered Diplomate Reporter and
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`15· ·Certified Realtime Reporter.
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`·1· · · · · · · ·A P P E A R A N C E S
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`·2· ·FOR PETITIONER:
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`·3· · · · ·Lori A. Gordon
`· · · · · ·Tyler J. Dutton
`·4· · · · ·STERNE KESSLER GOLDSTEIN & FOX
`· · · · · ·1100 New York Avenue, NW
`·5· · · · ·Washington, D.C. 20005
`· · · · · ·(202) 371-2600
`·6· · · · ·lgordon@skgf.com
`· · · · · ·tdutton@skgf.com
`·7
`· · · · · ·Yakov "Jake" Zolotorev
`·8· · · · ·FEINBERG DAY ALBERTI & THOMPSON LLP
`· · · · · ·1600 El Camino Real, Suite 280
`·9· · · · ·Menlo Park, California 94025
`· · · · · ·(650) 618-4367
`10· · · · ·yzolotorev@feinday.com
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`11
`· · ·ON BEHALF OF PATENT OWNER:
`12
`· · · · · ·Gregory Donahue
`13· · · · ·DiNOVO PRICE ELLWANGER LLP
`· · · · · ·7000 North Mopac Expressway, Suite 350
`14· · · · ·Austin, Texas 78731
`· · · · · ·(512) 539-2626
`15· · · · ·gdonahue@dpelaw.com
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`·1· · · · · · · · · · · ·INDEX
`· · · · · · · · · ·THOMAS A. GAFFORD
`·2· · · · · · · · · October 11, 2017
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`·3
`· · ·APPEARANCES· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·3
`·4
`· · ·PROCEEDINGS· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·6
`·5
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`·6
`· · ·EXAMINATION OF THOMAS A. GAFFORD:
`·7
`· · · · ·BY MS. GORDON· · · · · · · · · · · · · ·6
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`·9
`· · ·REPORTER'S CERTIFICATION· · · · · · · · · 108
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`·1· · · · · · · · DEPOSITION EXHIBITS
`· · · · · · · · · ·THOMAS A. GAFFORD
`·2· · · · · · · · · October 11, 2017
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`·3· NUMBER· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · PAGE
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`·4· Exhibit 1001· ·.........................· · 10
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`·5· Exhibit 1001· ·.........................· · 10
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`·6· Exhibit 1001· ·.........................· · 11
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`·7· Exhibit 1001· ·.........................· · 11
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`·8· Exhibit 1041· ·.........................· · 58
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`·9· Exhibit 2002· ·.........................· · ·8
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`10· Exhibit 2005· ·.........................· · ·9
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`11· Exhibit 2006· ·.........................· · ·8
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`12· Exhibit 2006· ·.........................· · ·9
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`·1· · · · · · · · · · PROCEEDINGS
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`·2· · · · · · · · THOMAS A. GAFFORD,
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`·3· · · · · ·having been first duly sworn,
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`·4· · · · · · · testified as follows:
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`·5· · · · · · · · · · EXAMINATION
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`·6· ·BY MS. GORDON:
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`·7· · · · ·Q.· · ·Good morning, Mr. Gafford.
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`·8· · · · ·A.· · ·Morning.
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`·9· · · · ·Q.· · ·Could you please state your
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`10· ·full name for the record.
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`11· · · · ·A.· · ·Thomas Austin Gafford.
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`12· · · · ·Q.· · ·And, Mr. Gafford, we spent a
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`13· ·good portion of yesterday together, so my
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`14· ·understanding is that you would like to try
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`15· ·to take breaks every 60 minutes?
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`16· · · · ·A.· · ·Right.
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`17· · · · ·Q.· · ·Okay.· So we will do that here
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`18· ·today, but if there's a point where you would
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`19· ·like to take a break before 60 minutes has
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`20· ·gone by, just let your attorney know and we
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`21· ·will make sure to take the break.
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`22· · · · ·A.· · ·All right.
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`23· · · · ·Q.· · ·Is there any reason that you
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`24· ·cannot testify truthfully and accurately here
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`25· ·today?
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`·1· · · · ·A.· · ·No.
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`·2· · · · ·Q.· · ·So Mr. Gafford, do you
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`·3· ·understand that today you are here to testify
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`·4· ·regarding testimony you submitted by
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`·5· ·declaration in four inter partes review
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`·6· ·proceedings in front of the US patent office
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`·7· ·related to US patents number 6,470,399,
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`·8· ·8,504,746, 8,966,144 and 9,189,437?
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`·9· · · · ·A.· · ·Yes.
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`10· · · · ·Q.· · ·All right.· And for purposes --
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`11· ·for today's deposition, can we collectively
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`12· ·refer to those as the "Tasler" patents?
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`13· · · · ·A.· · ·Yes.
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`14· · · · ·Q.· · ·Okay.· And do you understand
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`15· ·that the -- this is related to the
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`16· ·proceedings in which the board instituted
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`17· ·trial on a reference to the ION system by
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`18· ·Mark Pucci?
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`19· · · · ·A.· · ·Yes.
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`20· · · · ·Q.· · ·Okay.· So Mr. Gafford, I'm
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`21· ·going to hand you a number of documents that
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`22· ·we will refer to today during your
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`23· ·declaration [sic] or that you may want to
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`24· ·have in front of you.· This may take a while
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`25· ·because we've got the four cases.
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`
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`·1· · · · · · · · So I'm first handing you what's
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`·2· ·been marked as Exhibit 2002 in IPR2016-1864.
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`·3· ·It's entitled the "Declaration of Thomas A.
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`·4· ·Gafford."
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`·5· · · · · · · · And, Mr. Gafford, do you
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`·6· ·recognize this document?
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`·7· · · · ·A.· · ·Yes.
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`·8· · · · ·Q.· · ·And if you turn to page 31, is
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`·9· ·that your signature on this document?
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`10· · · · ·A.· · ·Yes.
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`11· · · · ·Q.· · ·And did you review this
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`12· ·document in preparation for today's
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`13· ·deposition?
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`14· · · · ·A.· · ·Yes.
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`15· · · · ·Q.· · ·Okay.· I'm next handing you
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`16· ·what's been marked as Exhibit 2006 in
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`17· ·IPR2016-1863.· It's a document titled
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`18· ·"Declaration of Thomas A. Gafford."
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`19· · · · · · · · Mr. Gafford, do you recognize
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`20· ·this document?
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`21· · · · ·A.· · ·Yes.
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`22· · · · ·Q.· · ·And if we turn to page 34, is
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`23· ·that your signature on page 34?
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`24· · · · ·A.· · ·Yes.
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`25· · · · ·Q.· · ·And did you review this
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`
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`·1· ·document in preparation for today's
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`·2· ·deposition?
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`·3· · · · ·A.· · ·Yes.
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`·4· · · · ·Q.· · ·All right.· I'm handing you
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`·5· ·what's been marked as Exhibit 2006 in IPR
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`·6· ·2016-1860.· And this is a document also
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`·7· ·titled "Declaration of Thomas A. Gafford."
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`·8· · · · · · · · Mr. Gafford, do you recognize
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`·9· ·this document?
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`10· · · · ·A.· · ·Yes.
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`11· · · · ·Q.· · ·And if you turn to page 34, is
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`12· ·that your signature on page 34?
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`13· · · · ·A.· · ·Yes.
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`14· · · · ·Q.· · ·Did you review this document in
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`15· ·preparation for today's deposition?
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`16· · · · ·A.· · ·Yes.
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`17· · · · ·Q.· · ·All right.· And I'm now handing
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`18· ·you what's been marked as Exhibit 2005 in
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`19· ·IPR2016-1842.· It's a document titled
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`20· ·"Declaration of Thomas A. Gafford."
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`21· · · · · · · · Mr. Gafford, do you recognize
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`22· ·this document?
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`23· · · · ·A.· · ·Yes.
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`24· · · · ·Q.· · ·And turning to page 34, is that
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`25· ·your signature?
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`·1· · · · ·A.· · ·Yes.
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`·2· · · · ·Q.· · ·And did you review this
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`·3· ·document in preparation for today's
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`·4· ·deposition?
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`·5· · · · ·A.· · ·Yes.
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`·6· · · · ·Q.· · ·Okay.· I'm next going to hand
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`·7· ·you the four patents at issue in these
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`·8· ·proceedings.· I'm handing you what's been
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`·9· ·marked as Exhibit 1001 to IPR2016-1864.· It's
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`10· ·US patent 6,470,399.
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`11· · · · · · · · Mr. Gafford, do you recognize
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`12· ·that document?
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`13· · · · ·A.· · ·'399, yes.
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`14· · · · ·Q.· · ·Okay.· And did you review this
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`15· ·document in preparation for today's
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`16· ·deposition?
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`17· · · · ·A.· · ·Yes.
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`18· · · · ·Q.· · ·I'm next handing you what's
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`19· ·been marked as Exhibit 1001 in IPR2016-1842,
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`20· ·and that's US patent number 9,189,437.
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`21· · · · · · · · And do you recognize this
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`22· ·document?
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`23· · · · ·A.· · ·Yes.
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`24· · · · ·Q.· · ·And did you review this
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`25· ·document in preparation for today's
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`
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`·1· ·deposition?
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`·2· · · · ·A.· · ·Yes.
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`·3· · · · ·Q.· · ·I'm handing you what's been
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`·4· ·marked as Exhibit 1001 to IPR2016-1860 and
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`·5· ·it's US patent number 8,966,144.
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`·6· · · · · · · · Do you recognize this document?
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`·7· · · · ·A.· · ·Yes.
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`·8· · · · ·Q.· · ·And did you review this
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`·9· ·document in preparation for today's
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`10· ·deposition?
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`11· · · · ·A.· · ·Yes.
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`12· · · · ·Q.· · ·And then the last document I'm
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`13· ·handing you has been marked as Exhibit 1001
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`14· ·to IPR2016-1863.· It's US patent number
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`15· ·8,504,746.
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`16· · · · · · · · And do you recognize that
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`17· ·document?
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`18· · · · ·A.· · ·Yes.
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`19· · · · ·Q.· · ·And did you review the '746
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`20· ·document in preparation for today's
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`21· ·deposition?
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`22· · · · ·A.· · ·Yes.
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`23· · · · ·Q.· · ·Thank you.
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`24· · · · · · · · Mr. Gafford, would you agree,
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`25· ·that outside of the claims, the specification
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`
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`·1· ·of the four Tasler patents is the same?
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`·2· · · · ·A.· · ·Yes.
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`·3· · · · · · · · MR. DONAHUE:· Object to the
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`·4· · · · ·form.
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`·5· ·BY MS. GORDON:
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`·6· · · · ·Q.· · ·All right.· So for purposes of
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`·7· ·this morning's questions, I would like to
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`·8· ·focus on the '399 patent.· But if at any
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`·9· ·point you would like to refer to the claims,
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`10· ·you have the other three patents in front of
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`11· ·you.
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`12· · · · · · · · So I would like -- if you
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`13· ·could, as we did yesterday, put today
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`14· ·Figures 1 and 2 in front of you, and then I'm
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`15· ·going to be asking you questions from the
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`16· ·specification.
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`17· · · · ·A.· · ·Can you break them out from
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`18· ·the --
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`19· · · · ·Q.· · ·Yeah.
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`20· · · · ·A.· · ·We can use yesterday's.
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`21· ·Yesterday's pieces were loose already.· Let's
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`22· ·find the right part.· Looks like it got
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`23· ·re-stapled.· Okay.· Well, that's not going to
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`24· ·work.· Let's take yesterday's staple out
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`25· ·again.
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`·1· · · · ·Q.· · ·Mr. Gafford, Figure 1 of the
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`·2· ·'399 patent is a block diagram of the
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`·3· ·interface device described in the Tasler
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`·4· ·patents, correct?
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`·5· · · · ·A.· · ·Yes.
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`·6· · · · ·Q.· · ·And Figure 2 is a more detailed
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`·7· ·block diagram of an embodiment of the
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`·8· ·interface device described in the Tasler
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`·9· ·patents; is that correct?
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`10· · · · ·A.· · ·Yes.
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`11· · · · ·Q.· · ·All right.· So if you turn your
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`12· ·attention to column 9 and 10, I would like to
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`13· ·start on column 9.· Let me know when you are
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`14· ·there.
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`15· · · · ·A.· · ·Okay.
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`16· · · · ·Q.· · ·Line 31, Tasler states that --
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`17· ·around line 30, "In the preferred embodiment
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`18· ·of the interface device 10 shown in Figure 2,
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`19· ·the first connecting device 12 of Figure 1
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`20· ·contains the following components:· an SCSI
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`21· ·interface 212 and a 50-pin SCSI connector
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`22· ·1240 for attachment to a SCSI interface
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`23· ·present on most host devices or laptops."
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`24· · · · · · · · Would you agree that the
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`25· ·preferred embodiment of Tasler uses the SCSI
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`·1· ·protocol to transfer data between the
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`·2· ·interface device and the host computer?
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`·3· · · · · · · · MR. DONAHUE:· Object to form.
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`·4· · · · ·A.· · ·One of the preferred
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`·5· ·embodiments uses SCSI.
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`·6· ·BY MS. GORDON:
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`·7· · · · ·Q.· · ·Okay.· And what is used in
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`·8· ·another preferred embodiment?
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`·9· · · · ·A.· · ·As it states down -- further
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`10· ·down column 9 -- or in the same paragraph --
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`11· ·starting at line 37 or so, 37 or 38, it
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`12· ·discusses the -- the use of an enhanced
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`13· ·parallel port, as well as just eight plain
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`14· ·digital input and output connections, as
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`15· ·shown in Figure 2, block 1284 and 1282.
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`16· · · · ·Q.· · ·Okay.· All right.· So let's
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`17· ·walk through each of these.· So in the
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`18· ·embodiment that uses the SCSI interface, the
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`19· ·host device would have a corresponding SCSI
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`20· ·interface, correct?
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`21· · · · ·A.· · ·Yes.
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`22· · · · ·Q.· · ·Okay.· And in the embodiment
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`23· ·that utilizes the enhanced parallel point
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`24· ·you -- port you were pointing to, what would
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`25· ·be the interface on the host device?
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`
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`·1· · · · ·A.· · ·The host would have a matching
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`·2· ·type of host-side interface for the PP.
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`·3· · · · ·Q.· · ·All right.· And what protocol
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`·4· ·would the host and the interface device use
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`·5· ·to communicate over the EPP interface?
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`·6· · · · · · · · (Witness reviews document.)
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`·7· · · · ·A.· · ·The disclosure doesn't specify
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`·8· ·protocol for use with the EPP embodiment.
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`·9· ·BY MS. GORDON:
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`10· · · · ·Q.· · ·Okay.· And was there a
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`11· ·customary protocol at the time of the
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`12· ·'399 patent for communicating over an EPP
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`13· ·interface?
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`14· · · · · · · · MR. DONAHUE:· Object to form.
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`15· · · · ·A.· · ·I recall a -- the EPP could
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`16· ·support a standard printer protocol, which is
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`17· ·just a parallel output transfer, but because
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`18· ·the EPP was -- was capable of being a
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`19· ·bidirectional, fully 8-bit wide port in both
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`20· ·directions, there were a variety of
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`21· ·nonstandard protocols that had been written
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`22· ·for various applications to permit use of the
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`23· ·EPP's improved hardware capabilities over the
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`24· ·traditional, original PC-type line printer
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`25· ·interface.· I don't know that they had names.
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`·1· ·They were application specific as I recall.
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`·2· ·BY MS. GORDON:
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`·3· · · · ·Q.· · ·All right.· Thank you.· And I
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`·4· ·believe you also mentioned -- or were
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`·5· ·pointing to the block in Figure 2, 1284, that
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`·6· ·includes eight digital output and eight
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`·7· ·digital input -- I don't know if "ports" is
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`·8· ·the right word.
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`·9· · · · · · · · What would the corresponding
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`10· ·interface on the host device be for
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`11· ·connecting to those eight digital outputs and
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`12· ·eight digital inputs?
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`13· · · · · · · · MR. DONAHUE:· Object to form.
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`14· · · · ·A.· · ·A typical interface on a host
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`15· ·would be a general purpose I/O device with at
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`16· ·least eight outputs and at least eight
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`17· ·inputs.
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`18· ·BY MS. GORDON:
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`19· · · · ·Q.· · ·Okay.· And what protocol would
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`20· ·the host utilize to communicate with those
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`21· ·eight digital outputs and eight digital
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`22· ·inputs of the interface device in Figure 2?
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`23· · · · ·A.· · ·It would be application
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`24· ·specific.· I don't -- I'm not aware of any
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`25· ·standard protocol that would be used.
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`
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`·1· · · · ·Q.· · ·Okay.· So I would like to turn
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`·2· ·back to columns 5 and 6 and talk about the
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`·3· ·operation of the interface device.
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`·4· · · · · · · · So starting at column 5,
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`·5· ·line 64, it states that, "Communication
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`·6· ·between the host system or host device and
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`·7· ·the interface device is based on known
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`·8· ·standard access commands as supported by all
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`·9· ·known operating systems" -- and then in
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`10· ·parentheses it says -- "(e.g., DOS, Windows,
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`11· ·UNIX)."
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`12· · · · · · · · What is Tasler referring to
`
`13· ·here when he says, "the known standard access
`
`14· ·commands that were supported by all known
`
`15· ·operating systems"?
`
`16· · · · · · · · MR. DONAHUE:· Object to form.
`
`17· · · · ·A.· · ·It'd be the commands that are
`
`18· ·provided in those systems for dealing with a
`
`19· ·particular -- with peripherals attached
`
`20· ·according to -- attached via the interface
`
`21· ·described here.
`
`22· ·BY MS. GORDON:
`
`23· · · · ·Q.· · ·And what are examples of those
`
`24· ·known standard access commands?
`
`25· · · · ·A.· · ·Open and close, read and write.
`
`
`
`·1· ·It's typical access commands.
`
`·2· · · · ·Q.· · ·Okay.· And those would be
`
`·3· ·commands in DOS?
`
`·4· · · · ·A.· · ·Every operating system --
`
`·5· · · · · · · · MR. DONAHUE:· Object to form.
`
`·6· · · · · · · · THE WITNESS:· Sorry.
`
`·7· · · · ·A.· · ·Every operating system has, at
`
`·8· ·a minimum for I/O devices, open, close, read
`
`·9· ·and write commands.
`
`10· ·BY MS. GORDON:
`
`11· · · · ·Q.· · ·Okay.· And is the seek command
`
`12· ·something that was a known standard access
`
`13· ·command?
`
`14· · · · ·A.· · ·That would be a more -- a
`
`15· ·command more specific to devices for which
`
`16· ·seek makes some sense.· If it's a mass
`
`17· ·storage device, then -- with direct access,
`
`18· ·then a seek command would be provided as
`
`19· ·well.
`
`20· · · · ·Q.· · ·Okay.· And that is a UNIX
`
`21· ·command?
`
`22· · · · ·A.· · ·Some form of seek exists in
`
`23· ·every operating system that accesses a
`
`24· ·direct-access storage device.
`
`25· · · · ·Q.· · ·Okay.· And a form of the seek
`
`
`
`·1· ·command would've existed in every operating
`
`·2· ·system at the time of the '399 patent, which
`
`·3· ·was approximately 1997?
`
`·4· · · · ·A.· · ·Yes.
`
`·5· · · · ·Q.· · ·So moving to column 6, line 6,
`
`·6· ·and we talked about this yesterday as well.
`
`·7· ·It states, "usual BIOS routines or
`
`·8· ·multipurpose interface programs issue an
`
`·9· ·instruction, known by those skilled in the
`
`10· ·art as the inquiry instruction, to the
`
`11· ·input/output interface in the host device."
`
`12· · · · · · · · Mr. Gafford, in the context of
`
`13· ·the Tasler patents, what is the input/output
`
`14· ·interface in the host device?
`
`15· · · · · · · · MR. DONAHUE:· Object to form.
`
`16· · · · · · · · (Witness reviews document.)
`
`17· · · · ·A.· · ·Prior to this paragraph, from
`
`18· ·which you just read, is a general description
`
`19· ·of the sorts of interfaces available to and
`
`20· ·customary in computers, and they include --
`
`21· ·particularly focused on hard disks and SCSI.
`
`22· ·So generally the -- or the specific interface
`
`23· ·that's used to embody and illustrate further
`
`24· ·descriptions, such as this inquiry
`
`25· ·instruction, would be SCSI -- a SCSI
`
`
`
`·1· ·interface on a PC of some sort.
`
`·2· ·BY MS. GORDON:
`
`·3· · · · ·Q.· · ·Thank you.· Would it also
`
`·4· ·include the EPP interface we talked about
`
`·5· ·earlier?
`
`·6· · · · · · · · MR. DONAHUE:· Object to form.
`
`·7· · · · ·A.· · ·If the EPP interface were
`
`·8· ·enhanced, such as for a -- there were a
`
`·9· ·variety of -- a variety.· There's one or two
`
`10· ·adapters out in the world that allowed a disk
`
`11· ·to be interconnected through an EPP and those
`
`12· ·weren't standardized protocols, so in the
`
`13· ·sense of customary -- customary access to a
`
`14· ·storage device over EPP, I don't know what
`
`15· ·that would be.
`
`16· ·BY MS. GORDON:
`
`17· · · · ·Q.· · ·Okay.· And we also talked about
`
`18· ·the digital input/output interface to the
`
`19· ·interface device.
`
`20· · · · ·A.· · ·Right.
`
`21· · · · ·Q.· · ·Would the corresponding
`
`22· ·interface in the host device be the
`
`23· ·input/output -- an input/output interface
`
`24· ·referenced here?
`
`25· · · · ·A.· · ·Yes.· As I described before,
`
`
`
`·1· ·that particular interface to this invention
`
`·2· ·would be a -- what's called a "general
`
`·3· ·purpose digital input/output port."
`
`·4· · · · ·Q.· · ·Okay.· All right.· So the
`
`·5· ·input/output interface, as in the host
`
`·6· ·device, could either be SCSI or the general
`
`·7· ·purpose I/O port?
`
`·8· · · · · · · · MR. DONAHUE:· Object to form.
`
`·9· · · · ·A.· · ·Well, that's what they
`
`10· ·disclose.· Sorry, they don't disclose that.
`
`11· ·That's what would be used by a person of
`
`12· ·ordinary skill to access this device through
`
`13· ·the 1284 exemplary port.
`
`14· ·BY MS. GORDON:
`
`15· · · · ·Q.· · ·All right.· And this sentence
`
`16· ·in column 6 mentions a "multipurpose
`
`17· ·interface program."· So starting with the
`
`18· ·SCSI interface, what would be the associated
`
`19· ·multipurpose interface program for the SCSI
`
`20· ·interface?
`
`21· · · · ·A.· · ·Remind me which line we're on.
`
`22· · · · ·Q.· · ·Sure.· We started at column 6,
`
`23· ·line 6.
`
`24· · · · · · · · (Witness reviews document.)
`
`25· · · · ·A.· · ·Well, a SCSI type of interface
`
`
`
`·1· ·embodies what's described here as a
`
`·2· ·multipurpose interface, and the software that
`
`·3· ·runs the SCSI interface would either be a
`
`·4· ·BIOS resident or OS resident driver for --
`
`·5· ·made for use with that interface.
`
`·6· ·BY MS. GORDON:
`
`·7· · · · ·Q.· · ·And so it would be a SCSI
`
`·8· ·driver either resident in the BIOS or the
`
`·9· ·operating system?
`
`10· · · · ·A.· · ·Yes.
`
`11· · · · ·Q.· · ·And that driver would issue the
`
`12· ·instruction to the I/O interface in the host
`
`13· ·device?
`
`14· · · · ·A.· · ·Yes.· In particular the -- it
`
`15· ·would issue -- upon request of the rest of
`
`16· ·the operating system, it would issue an
`
`17· ·inquiry instruction, if it were desired by
`
`18· ·the user or if it were configured by the user
`
`19· ·to set up whatever was connected to the
`
`20· ·interface.
`
`21· · · · ·Q.· · ·So the SCSI driver would also
`
`22· ·be a BIOS routine?
`
`23· · · · ·A.· · ·It could be in the BIOS.· It
`
`24· ·depends on who supplied it and how it was
`
`25· ·designed.
`
`
`
`·1· · · · ·Q.· · ·And other than the SCSI driver,
`
`·2· ·are there other usable BIOS routines at the
`
`·3· ·time of the '399 patent?
`
`·4· · · · · · · · MR. DONAHUE:· Object to form.
`
`·5· · · · ·A.· · ·Well, the question is kind of
`
`·6· ·inverted.· If you take the most basic PC you
`
`·7· ·could get, which was an IBM compatible, you
`
`·8· ·would find that the BIOS provided with the
`
`·9· ·IBM PC, say an AT compatible motherboard,
`
`10· ·would not know anything about SCSI.· But if
`
`11· ·you had installed, for example, an Adaptec
`
`12· ·SCSI adapter, the Adaptec SCSI adapters in
`
`13· ·those days came equipped with BIOS extension
`
`14· ·programs, which extended the BIOS of the
`
`15· ·motherboard to include software that could
`
`16· ·provide -- could operate a SCSI interface in
`
`17· ·response to BIOS open, close, read and write
`
`18· ·commands.
`
`19· ·BY MS. GORDON:
`
`20· · · · ·Q.· · ·And who would have installed
`
`21· ·that Adaptec SCSI adapter in the PC?
`
`22· · · · ·A.· · ·It could be the end user or it
`
`23· ·could be a reseller, such as Dell.· At the
`
`24· ·time, I had clients whom I directed to buy a
`
`25· ·PC equipped -- a PC from Dell, for example,
`
`
`
`·1· ·equipped already with this sort of Adaptec
`
`·2· ·controller.
`
`·3· · · · ·Q.· · ·All right.· So in some cases,
`
`·4· ·the user would then have to load the SCSI
`
`·5· ·adapter into their host computer?
`
`·6· · · · · · · · MR. DONAHUE:· Object to form.
`
`·7· · · · ·A.· · ·Depends on how -- the user
`
`·8· ·doesn't have to.· You could buy the computer
`
`·9· ·already equipped.· And later on that -- this
`
`10· ·was filed in '98.· By the late '90s actually,
`
`11· ·it had become common to have motherboards --
`
`12· ·high-end motherboards, such as server
`
`13· ·motherboards were available that had SCSI
`
`14· ·interfaces built in and those that had SCSI
`
`15· ·interfaces built in would've had SCSI BIOS
`
`16· ·built -- SCSI software built into their BIOS.
`
`17· · · · · · · · The '90s was a big era for the
`
`18· ·expansion of SCSI as a way to connect to a
`
`19· ·large number of hard drives.· And high-end
`
`20· ·workstations and servers often had this as an
`
`21· ·existing feature without the user doing
`
`22· ·anything.
`
`23· ·BY MS. GORDON:
`
`24· · · · ·Q.· · ·Right.· But there were a set of
`
`25· ·computers where the user would have to load
`
`
`
`·1· ·the SCSI adapter?
`
`·2· · · · · · · · MR. DONAHUE:· Object to form.
`
`·3· · · · ·A.· · ·Well, I don't know what you
`
`·4· ·mean by "load."· You're confusing physical
`
`·5· ·installation with software.
`
`·6· ·BY MS. GORDON:
`
`·7· · · · ·Q.· · ·Did the SCSI driver -- was the
`
`·8· ·SCSI driver included in the SCSI adapter?
`
`·9· · · · · · · · MR. DONAHUE:· Object to form.
`
`10· · · · ·A.· · ·The SCSI BIOS -- there's two
`
`11· ·layers of adapters -- there's two layers of
`
`12· ·software here.· In order to initialize and
`
`13· ·configure a computer, before you even boot an
`
`14· ·operating system, it's useful to have some
`
`15· ·support in the BIOS so that the user working
`
`16· ·with the BIOS user interface can configure
`
`17· ·everything on the computer, including the
`
`18· ·SCSI gear.
`
`19· · · · · · · · Once the system boots up, the
`
`20· ·drivers that are in the BIOS are replaced by
`
`21· ·the drivers in a more advanced operating
`
`22· ·system, such as Windows or UNIX.· So as a
`
`23· ·setup tool, you'll have SCSI support in the
`
`24· ·BIOS, and then once the OS boots up, that
`
`25· ·will be replaced by the OS's own drivers for
`
`
`
`·1· ·all the routines -- for all the devices,
`
`·2· ·including SCSI.
`
`·3· ·BY MS. GORDON:
`
`·4· · · · ·Q.· · ·Okay.· So I believe earlier you
`
`·5· ·answered that there were some PCs that did
`
`·6· ·not have SCSI capabilities included in the
`
`·7· ·mid-1990s, correct?
`
`·8· · · · · · · · MR. DONAHUE:· Object to form.
`
`·9· · · · ·A.· · ·Sure.· PCs that were very price
`
`10· ·competitive, the average user didn't care
`
`11· ·about SCSI.· The average user was happy with
`
`12· ·a cheaper type of disk interface called
`
`13· ·"ATA."· And for those low-end PCs, they were
`
`14· ·typically shipped all the way to the user
`
`15· ·with no SCSI port and therefore no SCSI
`
`16· ·software.· Although the operating system that
`
`17· ·was loaded on them contained SCSI drivers had
`
`18· ·they been needed, the PCs themselves often
`
`19· ·did not even contain a SCSI port because they
`
`20· ·were, for the reasons of price
`
`21· ·competitiveness, not needed.
`
`22· ·BY MS. GORDON:
`
`23· · · · ·Q.· · ·I see.· And so if a user wanted
`
`24· ·to use one of those PCs to interface with a
`
`25· ·SCSI device, they would need to modify the
`
`
`
`·1· ·device to include a SCSI port?
`
`·2· · · · · · · · MR. DONAHUE:· Object to form.
`
`·3· · · · ·A.· · ·Only if they liked working too
`
`·4· ·hard.· Typically they would order it -- if
`
`·5· ·they knew they were -- if they had enough
`
`·6· ·foresight to know their application, if they
`
`·7· ·knew they were going to use SCSI, they'd
`
`·8· ·order it that way from the vendor, whether it
`
`·9· ·was Gateway or Dell or whoever.
`
`10· ·BY MS. GORDON:
`
`11· · · · ·Q.· · ·All right.· But if they didn't
`
`12· ·have enough foresight and they didn't order
`
`13· ·it, how would they take that PC and make it
`
`14· ·SCSI compatible?
`
`15· · · · ·A.· · ·They would rush down to Fry's
`
`16· ·and buy themselves an Adaptec to stick in it.
`
`17· · · · ·Q.· · ·And the Adaptec was a piece of
`
`18· ·hardware?
`
`19· · · · ·A.· · ·Yes.
`
`20· · · · ·Q.· · ·Okay.· And when the user was --
`
`21· ·strike that.· Let me start again.
`
`22· · · · · · · · When the user bought the
`
`23· ·Adaptec SCSI adapter, did they have to load
`
`24· ·any software into their computer to make it
`
`25· ·operate?
`
`
`
`·1· · · · · · · · MR. DONAHUE:· Object to form.
`
`·2· · · · ·A.· · ·Not -- at the BIOS level, no,
`
`·3· ·because the Adaptec came with the BIOS
`
`·4· ·software already built onto it.· So as soon
`
`·5· ·as you booted it -- as soon as you started
`
`·6· ·the PC, the new expanded BIOS, because of the
`
`·7· ·way PCs worked to incorporate all BIOSs, not
`
`·8· ·only on the motherboard, but to gather under
`
`·9· ·their wing any BIOSs provided on peripheral
`
`10· ·boards, would already be -- that BIOS would
`
`11· ·already be there.· And if the operating
`
`12· ·system was of the type that simply made use
`
`13· ·of BIOS drivers, like DOS, for example, then
`
`14· ·you'd have everything you needed for full
`
`15· ·operation.
`
`16· · · · · · · · If you used a more advanced
`
`17· ·operating system, such as Windows or UNIX,
`
`18· ·then, as I mentioned earlier, Windows or UNIX
`
`19· ·had drivers for SCSI interfaces built in and
`
`20· ·they would simply not be enabled if the
`
`21· ·device weren't there.· If the device were
`
`22· ·there, then the user still wouldn't have to
`
`23· ·do anything, just upon booting up the
`
`24· ·operating system, the SCSI driver already
`
`25· ·built into it would be enabled and the user
`
`
`
`·1· ·would be provided with operating system-level
`
`·2· ·access to the SCSI port and whatever was on
`
`·3· ·it.
`
`·4· ·BY MS. GORDON:
`
`·5· · · · ·Q.· · ·All right.· Thank you.· Were
`
`·6· ·there any operating systems in the 1997 time
`
`·7· ·frame that did not include SCSI drivers?
`
`·8· · · · · · · · MR. DONAHUE:· Object to form.
`
`·9· · · · ·A.· · ·I can't think of any.· Well, as
`
`10· ·I said, except for DOS, but it didn't need it
`
`11· ·because it used the BIOS driver, so it had
`
`12· ·access to whatever device was -- included its
`
`13· ·own BIOS driver, such as the Adaptec.
`
`14· · · · · · · · So in either case, whatever
`
`15· ·driver -- DOS didn't need it and -- because
`
`16· ·it used the BIOS that was already -- that was
`
`17· ·there, and Windows and UNIX provided their
`
`18· ·own.
`
`19· ·BY MS. GORDON:
`
`20· · · · ·Q.· · ·All right.· So for the DOS
`
`21· ·operating system, it would rely on BIOS
`
`22· ·routines for the SCSI driver?
`
`23· · · · ·A.· · ·Sure.
`
`24· · · · ·Q.· · ·And then for Windows and UNIX,
`
`25· ·the operating system itself included a SCSI
`
`
`
`·1· ·driver?
`
`·2· · · · ·A.· · ·Yeah.· No need for the user to
`
`·3· ·do anything.· They would just notice that the
`
`·4· ·device was there and reconfigure to make it
`
`·5· ·usable.
`
`·6· · · · ·Q.· · ·But in DOS computers, the user
`
`·7· ·would have to install a SCSI adapter?
`
`·8· · · · ·A.· · ·If --
`
`·9· · · · · · · · MR. DONAHUE:· Object to form.
`
`10· · · · ·A.· · ·-- a physical computer was not
`
`11· ·supplied with a SCSI port, then somebody has
`
`12· ·to bolt on a SCSI port.· Whether you take it
`
`13· ·back to the Best Buy and have them stick one
`
`14· ·in or whatever, you have to add it or you
`
`15· ·don't have one.
`
`16· ·BY MS. GORDON:
`
`17· · · · ·Q.· · ·Thank you.
`
`18· · · · · · · · So Mr. Gafford, other than
`
`19· ·SCSI, do you have any examples of
`
`20· ·multipurpose interface programs at the time
`
`21· ·of the '399 patent, which was approximately
`
`22· ·1997?
`
`23· · · · · · · · MR. DONAHUE:· Object to form.
`
`24· · · · · · · · (Witness reviews document.)
`
`25· · · · ·A.· · ·Do I have any examples? I
`
`
`
`·1· ·actually don't know what you mean by that
`
`·2· ·question.
`
`·3· ·BY MS. GORDON:
`
`·4· · · · ·Q.· · ·All right.· So can you give me
`
`·5· ·any examples of multipurpose interface
`
`·6· ·programs that existed in the 1997 time frame?
`
`·7· · · · · · · · MR. DONAHUE:· Object to form.
`
`·8· · · · ·A.· · ·I think drivers and user-level
`
`·9· ·software for USB had begun to appear;
`
`10· ·although they weren't standardized into
`
`11· ·Windows, for example, until, I think,
`
`12· ·Windows 98, although I don't know when
`
`13· ·Windows 98 was released.· It could've been
`
`14· ·released in '97.
`
`15· · · · · · · · In any case, software and OS
`
`16· ·packages, I suspect, particularly in a Linux,
`
`17· ·because Linux tended to be very aggressive
`
`18· ·about incorporating their devices, it would
`
`19· ·not surprise me if Linux, around that time
`
`20· ·frame, came with USB drivers and USB was
`
`21· ·certainly a multipurpose type of interface.
`
`22· ·BY MS. GORDON:
`
`23· · · · ·Q.· · ·And what makes an interface
`
`24· ·multipurpose, in your opinion?
`
`25· · · · ·A.· · ·It's used for more than one
`
`
`
`·1· ·kind of peripheral.
`
`·2· · · · ·Q.· · ·And this section of Tasler
`
`·3· ·mentions "booting a workstation."· And when a
`
`·4· ·workstation boots, does it utilize libraries
`
`·5· ·as part of the boot process?
`
`·6· · · · · · · · MR. DONAHUE:· Object to form.
`
`·7· · · · ·A.· · ·Depends on what it boots.
`
`·8· ·BY MS. GORDON:
`
`·9· · · · ·Q.· · ·And what do you mean by that?
`
`10· · · · ·A.· · ·Well, if a workstation boots
`
`11· ·something primitive, like DOS, then it may
`
`12· ·not use any libraries.· It may just start
`
`13· ·running with the DOS core and give you access
`
`14· ·to whatever the hardware provided, then
`
`15· ·that's it.· Whether it uses libraries
`
`16· ·depends -- it could use libraries if it were
`
`17· ·configured to do so, but it need not.
`
`18· · · · ·Q.· · ·And were there cases where a
`
`19· ·workstation would use libraries when it
`
`20· ·booted?
`
`21· · · · ·A.· · ·Yes.· And the most common
`
`22· ·example would be Windows 95, which used --
`
`23· ·had available a large number of libraries to
`
`24· ·provide support for a large number of devices
`
`25· ·depending on what it found was actually
`
`
`
`·1· ·present on the computer, on the workstation
`
`·2· ·on which it booted.· And for that example --
`
`·3· ·for that matter, UNIX and Linux did as well.
`
`·4· · · · ·Q.· · ·Mr. Gafford, were there other
`
`·5· ·drivers that were normally present in BIOS in
`
`·6· ·the 1997 time frame?
`
`·7· · · · · · · · MR. DONAHUE:· Object to form.
`
`·8· · · · ·A.· · ·Other than what?
`
`·9· ·BY MS. GORDON:
`
`10· · · · ·Q.· · ·Other than the SCSI driver.
`
`11· · · · ·A.· · ·Of course.· BIOS would
`
`12· ·contain -- the most basic PC contained
`
`13· ·drivers for a serial port, a parallel port, a
`
`14· ·real-time clock, a game port.
`
`15· · · · ·Q.· · ·What is a "game port"?
`
`16· · · · ·A.· · ·A port for connecting a
`
`17· ·joystick to the computer.
`
`18· · · · ·Q.· · ·Okay.
`
`19· · · · ·A.· · ·A mouse, for example, a mouse
`
`20· ·and keyboard, those basic -- without which
`
`21· ·you don't have a computer at all -- kinds of
`
`22· ·devices all contain some sort of software
`
`23· ·support in the BIOS of the oldest of the PCs.
`
`24· · · · ·Q.· · ·And would you consider t
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