·1· · ·UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`· · · ·BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`·2
`· · ·-------------------------x
`·3· · · · · · · · · · · · · · :
`· · ·APPLE INC.· · · · · · · ·:
`·4· · · · · · · · · · · · · · :
`· · ·VS.· · · · · · · · · · · : Case IPR2016-01839
`·5· · · · · · · · · · · · · · :
`· · ·PAPST LICENSING GMBH &· ·:
`·6· ·CO., KG· · · · · · · · · :
`· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · :
`·7· ·-------------------------x
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`·8
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`·9
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`10
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`11· · · · · · · · · ·Deposition of
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`12· · · · · · · · ·THOMAS A. GAFFORD
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`13· · · · · · · · · ·Austin, Texas
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`14· · · · · · ·Tuesday, October 10, 2017
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`15· · · · · · · · · ·10:16 a.m.
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`19
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`20
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`21
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`22· ·Job No.:· 4-252431
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`23· ·Pages:· 1 - 112
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`24· ·Reported by:· Micheal A. Johnson, RDR, CRR
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`25
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`Apple 1055
`IPR2016-01842
`
`
`· · · ·BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`·2
`· · ·-------------------------x
`·3· · · · · · · · · · · · · · :
`· · ·APPLE INC.· · · · · · · ·:
`·4· · · · · · · · · · · · · · :
`· · ·VS.· · · · · · · · · · · : Case IPR2016-01839
`·5· · · · · · · · · · · · · · :
`· · ·PAPST LICENSING GMBH &· ·:
`·6· ·CO., KG· · · · · · · · · :
`· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · :
`·7· ·-------------------------x
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`·8
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`·9
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`10
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`11· · · · · · · · · ·Deposition of
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`12· · · · · · · · ·THOMAS A. GAFFORD
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`13· · · · · · · · · ·Austin, Texas
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`14· · · · · · ·Tuesday, October 10, 2017
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`15· · · · · · · · · ·10:16 a.m.
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`16
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`17
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`18
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`19
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`20
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`21
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`22· ·Job No.:· 4-252431
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`23· ·Pages:· 1 - 112
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`24· ·Reported by:· Micheal A. Johnson, RDR, CRR
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`25
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`Apple 1055
`IPR2016-01842
`
`
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`·1· · · · · · · Deposition of THOMAS A. GAFFORD,
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`·2· ·held at the location of:
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`·3
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`·4
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`·5· · · · ·DiNovo Price Ellwanger LLP
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`·6· · · · ·7000 North Mopac Expressway, Suite 350
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`·7· · · · ·Austin, Texas 78731
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`·8· · · · ·(512) 539-2626
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`13· · · · · · · Pursuant to Notice, before Micheal
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`14· ·A. Johnson, Registered Diplomate Reporter and
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`15· ·Certified Realtime Reporter.
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`·1· · · · · · · ·A P P E A R A N C E S
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`·2· ·FOR PETITIONER:
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`·3· · · · ·Lori A. Gordon
`· · · · · ·Tyler J. Dutton
`·4· · · · ·STERNE KESSLER GOLDSTEIN & FOX
`· · · · · ·1100 New York Avenue, NW
`·5· · · · ·Washington, D.C. 20005
`· · · · · ·(202) 371-2600
`·6· · · · ·lgordon@skgf.com
`· · · · · ·tdutton@skgf.com
`·7
`· · · · · ·Yakov "Jake" Zolotorev
`·8· · · · ·FEINBERG DAY ALBERTI & THOMPSON LLP
`· · · · · ·1600 El Camino Real, Suite 280
`·9· · · · ·Menlo Park, California 94025
`· · · · · ·(650) 618-4367
`10· · · · ·yzolotorev@feinday.com
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`11
`· · ·ON BEHALF OF PATENT OWNER:
`12
`· · · · · ·Gregory Donahue
`13· · · · ·DiNOVO PRICE ELLWANGER LLP
`· · · · · ·7000 North Mopac Expressway, Suite 350
`14· · · · ·Austin, Texas 78731
`· · · · · ·(512) 539-2626
`15· · · · ·gdonahue@dpelaw.com
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`·1· · · · · · · · · · · ·INDEX
`· · · · · · · · · ·THOMAS A. GAFFORD
`·2· · · · · · · · · October 10, 2017
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`·3
`· · ·APPEARANCES· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·3
`·4
`· · ·PROCEEDINGS· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·6
`·5
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`·6
`· · ·EXAMINATION OF THOMAS A. GAFFORD:
`·7
`· · · · ·BY MS. GORDON· · · · · · · · · · · · · ·6
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`·9
`· · ·REPORTER'S CERTIFICATION· · · · · · · · · 112
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`·1· · · · · · · · DEPOSITION EXHIBITS
`· · · · · · · · · ·THOMAS A. GAFFORD
`·2· · · · · · · · · October 10, 2017
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`·3
`· · NUMBER· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · PAGE
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`· · Paper 15· · · ·.........................· · 98
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`· · Exhibit 1001· ·.........................· · 11
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`· · Exhibit 1005· ·.........................· · 59
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`· · Exhibit 1007· ·.........................· · 32
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`· · Exhibit 1012· ·.........................· · 33
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`· · Exhibit 2002· ·.........................· · 10
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`· · Exhibit 2004· ·.........................· · 59
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`·1· · · · · · · · · · PROCEEDINGS
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`·2· · · · · · · · THOMAS A. GAFFORD,
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`·3· · · · · ·having been first duly sworn,
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`·4· · · · · · · testified as follows:
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`·5· · · · · · · · · · EXAMINATION
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`·6· ·BY MS. GORDON:
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`·7· · · · ·Q.· · ·Good morning, Mr. Gafford.
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`·8· ·Would you please state your full name for the
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`·9· ·record.
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`10· · · · ·A.· · ·Thomas Austin Gafford.
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`11· · · · ·Q.· · ·All right.· Thank you.
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`12· ·Mr. Gafford, do you understand that you are
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`13· ·here to testify regarding the testimony you
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`14· ·submitted by declaration in the United States
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`15· ·Patent and Trademark Office's inter partes
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`16· ·review of US patent number 67 -- 6,470,399?
`
`17· · · · ·A.· · ·Yes.
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`18· · · · ·Q.· · ·Okay.· And for purposes of
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`19· ·today's deposition, is it okay if we refer to
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`20· ·that patent as the "'399 patent"?
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`21· · · · ·A.· · ·Sure.
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`22· · · · ·Q.· · ·Okay.· Now, Mr. Gafford, from
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`23· ·your CV, it seems like you've been deposed a
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`24· ·number of times before, so we can dispense
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`25· ·with the general ground rules.· I just want
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`
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`·1· ·to remind you that if at any point today, you
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`·2· ·feel like you need to take a break, just let
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`·3· ·your counsel know and we will take a break at
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`·4· ·the first convenient point.
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`·5· · · · ·A.· · ·I've informed counsel I prefer
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`·6· ·to break after 60 minutes of talking.
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`·7· · · · ·Q.· · ·Okay.· So -- All right.· So you
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`·8· ·like to take a break every 60 minutes?
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`·9· · · · ·A.· · ·Sixty minutes of talking,
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`10· ·break, 60 more minutes of talking, it turns
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`11· ·out more like every 70 or 75, but I like to
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`12· ·put a limit of 60 minutes on talking --
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`13· · · · ·Q.· · ·Okay.
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`14· · · · ·A.· · ·-- before a break happens.
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`15· · · · ·Q.· · ·All right.· Thank you.· So it's
`
`16· ·around 10:17 right now.
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`17· · · · · · · · MS. GORDON:· So Tyler, can you
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`18· · · · ·let me know when we hit about the
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`19· · · · ·11:20 mark and we'll take a break.
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`20· · · · · · · · MR. DUTTON:· Sure.
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`21· ·BY MS. GORDON:
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`22· · · · ·Q.· · ·All right.· Mr. Gafford, is
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`23· ·there any reason why you cannot give truthful
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`24· ·and complete testimony here today?
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`25· · · · ·A.· · ·No.
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`
`
`·1· · · · ·Q.· · ·All right.· Mr. Gafford, when
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`·2· ·were you first contacted to work as an expert
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`·3· ·on this specific inter partes review
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`·4· ·proceeding?
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`·5· · · · ·A.· · ·I don't recall.
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`·6· · · · ·Q.· · ·Was it this year?
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`·7· · · · ·A.· · ·No, I've been working on these,
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`·8· ·I'm sure, part of last year as well.
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`·9· · · · ·Q.· · ·Okay.· When you say you were
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`10· ·"working on these," what are you referring
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`11· ·to?
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`12· · · · ·A.· · ·Well, the difficulty I have in
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`13· ·pinning down a date is, I began working on
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`14· ·this family of patents in other IPRs for the
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`15· ·Fitch Even firm in Chicago, and I began
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`16· ·working for the DiNovo firm at a somewhat
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`17· ·later time.· And when that started, I don't
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`18· ·recall precisely.
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`19· · · · ·Q.· · ·I see.· And so you started
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`20· ·working on the family of patents with the
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`21· ·Fitch Even firm you mentioned?
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`22· · · · ·A.· · ·Yes.
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`23· · · · ·Q.· · ·Okay.· And the family of
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`24· ·patents that you're referring to, are those
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`25· ·the Papst patents?
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`
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`·1· · · · ·A.· · ·Well, in --
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`·2· · · · · · · · MR. DONAHUE:· Object to the
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`·3· · · · ·form.
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`·4· · · · ·A.· · ·The patents that are -- in
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`·5· ·which the inventor is Tasler.
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`·6· ·BY MS. GORDON:
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`·7· · · · ·Q.· · ·Okay.· So the Tasler family of
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`·8· ·patents?
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`·9· · · · ·A.· · ·So far as I know them, yeah,
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`10· ·the Tasler family.
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`11· · · · ·Q.· · ·All right.· And who first
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`12· ·contacted you to work on the Tasler family of
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`13· ·patents?
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`14· · · · ·A.· · ·That would be Paul Henkelmann
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`15· ·of the Fitch firm.
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`16· · · · ·Q.· · ·And are you still working with
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`17· ·the Fitch firm?
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`18· · · · ·A.· · ·Yes.
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`19· · · · ·Q.· · ·Okay.· But you're also working
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`20· ·with the DiNovo firm?
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`21· · · · ·A.· · ·Right.
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`22· · · · ·Q.· · ·All right.· And for purposes of
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`23· ·this IPR, are you working with the Fitch Even
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`24· ·firm?
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`25· · · · ·A.· · ·Not this IPR, no.
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`·1· · · · ·Q.· · ·Okay.· And you say "this IPR,"
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`·2· ·are you working with the Fitch firm on other
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`·3· ·IPRs?
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`·4· · · · ·A.· · ·Yes.
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`·5· · · · ·Q.· · ·All right.· Are you working on
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`·6· ·any other IPRs where Apple is the petitioner
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`·7· ·with the Fitch firm?
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`·8· · · · ·A.· · ·I don't think so.· The
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`·9· ·petitioners in the cases involving the Fitch
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`10· ·firm, I believe are all camera manufacturers.
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`11· ·I don't think Apple is among them.
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`12· · · · ·Q.· · ·Okay.· And so the IPRs where
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`13· ·you're working with the Fitch firm were the
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`14· ·IPRs that were filed by the camera
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`15· ·manufacturers, such as Canon?
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`16· · · · ·A.· · ·I think that's right.
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`17· · · · ·Q.· · ·All right.· Mr. Gafford, I'm
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`18· ·going to hand you a few documents that we'll
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`19· ·be referring to this morning during your
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`20· ·deposition.· So the first document I'm going
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`21· ·to hand you has been marked as Exhibit 2002
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`22· ·to this proceeding.· It's entitled the
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`23· ·"Declaration of Thomas A. Gafford Under 37
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`24· ·CFR 4253."· Do you recognize this document,
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`25· ·Mr. Gafford?
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`
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`·1· · · · ·A.· · ·Yes.
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`·2· · · · ·Q.· · ·And did you review this
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`·3· ·document in preparation for today's
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`·4· ·deposition?
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`·5· · · · ·A.· · ·Yes.
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`·6· · · · ·Q.· · ·All right.· And can you turn to
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`·7· ·page 26 of this document, and is that your
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`·8· ·signature on page 26?
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`·9· · · · ·A.· · ·Yes.
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`10· · · · ·Q.· · ·All right.· Thank you.· And I'm
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`11· ·going to hand you next what's been marked as
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`12· ·Exhibit 1001 to this proceeding.· It is one
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`13· ·of the '399 patents.
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`14· · · · · · · · Mr. Gafford, do you recognize
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`15· ·this document?
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`16· · · · ·A.· · ·Yes.
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`17· · · · ·Q.· · ·Did you review this document in
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`18· ·preparation for today's deposition?
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`19· · · · ·A.· · ·Yes.
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`20· · · · ·Q.· · ·And is this one of the patents
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`21· ·that you mentioned were in the Tasler family
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`22· ·of patents?
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`23· · · · ·A.· · ·Yes.
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`24· · · · ·Q.· · ·All right.· So I would like to
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`25· ·first start by discussing the preferred
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`
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`·1· ·embodiment of the '399 patent.· So if you
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`·2· ·could pull out for me Figure 1 of this
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`·3· ·document.· Actually, is there a way you could
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`·4· ·take the staple out?· Because I'm going to --
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`·5· ·I can --
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`·6· · · · ·A.· · ·I probably have fingernails
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`·7· ·better suited to this than you.· I just can't
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`·8· ·get it out.
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`·9· · · · ·Q.· · ·Okay.
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`10· · · · ·A.· · ·It's hard to do with that
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`11· ·thumbnail.
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`12· · · · ·Q.· · ·All right.· So I would like to
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`13· ·also point your attention to column 5.· So
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`14· ·Mr. Gafford, Figure 1 of the '399 patent
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`15· ·depicts the interface device designed for
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`16· ·communication between a host computer and
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`17· ·what the '399 patent calls a "data
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`18· ·transmit/receive device," correct?
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`19· · · · ·A.· · ·Yes.
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`20· · · · ·Q.· · ·All right.· And do you see the
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`21· ·box in Figure 1 that's labeled "1st CD"?
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`22· · · · ·A.· · ·Yes.
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`23· · · · ·Q.· · ·What is the purpose of the box
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`24· ·that's labeled "1st CD"?
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`25· · · · · · · · MR. DONAHUE:· Object to form.
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`
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`·1· · · · ·A.· · ·"CD" is short for connecting
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`·2· ·device.· It is generally the circuitry that
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`·3· ·interconnects the processor portion of this
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`·4· ·system to the host.
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`·5· ·BY MS. GORDON:
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`·6· · · · ·Q.· · ·All right.· And the "processor
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`·7· ·portion of the circuitry," is that what's
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`·8· ·labeled "DSP"?
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`·9· · · · ·A.· · ·Yes.· That, plus its memory.
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`10· · · · ·Q.· · ·So the processor portion of the
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`11· ·interface device is "DSP" Box 13, and
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`12· ·"Memory" 14?
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`13· · · · ·A.· · ·Yes.
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`14· · · · ·Q.· · ·And the "Host" you're
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`15· ·mentioning, is that shown in Figure 1?
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`16· · · · ·A.· · ·No.· This is an interface to
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`17· ·the host, the host itself is not shown.
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`18· · · · ·Q.· · ·And the interface to the host,
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`19· ·is that's what's labeled the number "11" in
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`20· ·this figure?
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`21· · · · ·A.· · ·Yes.
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`22· · · · ·Q.· · ·All right.· And, Mr. Gafford,
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`23· ·do you see the box labeled "2nd CD" in
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`24· ·Figure 1?
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`25· · · · ·A.· · ·Yes.
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`
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`·1· · · · ·Q.· · ·All right.· And what is the
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`·2· ·purpose of the box labeled "2nd CD"?
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`·3· · · · · · · · MR. DONAHUE:· Object to form.
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`·4· · · · ·A.· · ·"CD" again is connecting
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`·5· ·device.· This second connecting device
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`·6· ·provides the interface between the processor
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`·7· ·portion of the system Figure 1 and a data
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`·8· ·transmit/receive device.
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`·9· ·BY MS. GORDON:
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`10· · · · ·Q.· · ·And the data transmit/receive
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`11· ·device is not shown in Figure 1; is that
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`12· ·correct?
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`13· · · · ·A.· · ·That's right.
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`14· · · · ·Q.· · ·So if we turn to the
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`15· ·'399 patent, specifically in column 6,
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`16· ·starting at line 3, it states that, "When the
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`17· ·host device system with which the interface
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`18· ·device according to the present invention is
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`19· ·connected is booted and a data
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`20· ·transmit/receive device is also attached to
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`21· ·the interface device 10, usual BIOS routines
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`22· ·or multipurpose interface programs issue an
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`23· ·instruction, known by those skilled in the
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`24· ·art as an inquiry instruction, to the
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`25· ·input/output interfaces in the host device."
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`
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`·1· · · · · · · · What is the "multipurpose
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`·2· ·interface program" that's being referred to
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`·3· ·in this portion of the '399 specification?
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`·4· · · · · · · · MR. DONAHUE:· Object to form.
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`·5· · · · ·A.· · ·The interface between the host
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`·6· ·and Figure 1 system is described as a
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`·7· ·"multipurpose interface," meaning it is an
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`·8· ·interface that can be used for more than one
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`·9· ·kind of device.· And so the multipurpose
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`10· ·interface program is whatever software is in
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`11· ·the host that deals with the multipurpose
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`12· ·interface and the various devices that can be
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`13· ·connected to it.
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`14· ·BY MS. GORDON:
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`15· · · · ·Q.· · ·And does the '399 patent
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`16· ·provide any examples of what would be a
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`17· ·multipurpose interface program?
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`18· · · · · · · · MR. DONAHUE:· Object to form.
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`19· · · · · · · · (Witness reviews document.)
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`20· · · · ·A.· · ·The behavior of the interface
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`21· ·program as is described in column 6 of the
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`22· ·disclosure, and the phrase "multipurpose
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`23· ·interface" is -- reappears in column 11,
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`24· ·where it's used to describe the operating
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`25· ·system drivers and a software package called
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`
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`·1· ·an "ASPI manager."· Let's see what else it
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`·2· ·says about that.
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`·3· · · · · · · · (Witness reviews document.)
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`·4· · · · ·A.· · ·There's a further description
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`·5· ·of behavior of the host software in
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`·6· ·columns 11 and 12.· I think that answers your
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`·7· ·question.
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`·8· ·BY MS. GORDON:
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`·9· · · · ·Q.· · ·And the APSI interface that you
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`10· ·mentioned or the APSI manager, is that a SCSI
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`11· ·interface?
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`12· · · · ·A.· · ·It's "ASPI."
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`13· · · · ·Q.· · ·ASPI.
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`14· · · · · · · · (Witness reviews document.)
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`15· · · · ·A.· · ·It is a kind of SCSI manager as
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`16· ·is described in column 11, starting around
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`17· ·line 10 or so, in addition to where it says
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`18· ·"As described above, communication between
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`19· ·the host device and the multipurpose
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`20· ·interface can take place not only via drivers
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`21· ·for input/output device customary in a host
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`22· ·device which reside in the BIOS system of the
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`23· ·host device but also via specific interface
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`24· ·drivers which, in the case of SCSI
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`25· ·interfaces, are known as multipurpose
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`
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`·1· ·interface ASPI (advanced SCSI programming
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`·2· ·interface) drivers," and it goes on to
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`·3· ·describe what ASPI -- what sorts of things
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`·4· ·ASPI can do for you.
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`·5· ·BY MS. GORDON:
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`·6· · · · ·Q.· · ·All right.· So would you
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`·7· ·consider a SCSI interface to be a
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`·8· ·multipurpose interface?
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`·9· · · · ·A.· · ·Yes.
`
`10· · · · ·Q.· · ·Okay.· So I would like to
`
`11· ·return to column 6 in the sentence we were
`
`12· ·talking about.· Again, this sentence states
`
`13· ·that, "When the host device with which the
`
`14· ·interface" -- "with which the interface
`
`15· ·device according to the present invention is
`
`16· ·connected is booted and the data
`
`17· ·transmit/receive device is also attached to
`
`18· ·the interface device 10," how does the
`
`19· ·multipurpose interface program know that a
`
`20· ·data transmit/receive device is attached to
`
`21· ·the interface device?
`
`22· · · · · · · · MR. DONAHUE:· Object to the
`
`23· · · · ·form.
`
`24· · · · ·A.· · ·Can you give me the line you're
`
`25· ·reading from in 6?
`
`
`
`·1· ·BY MS. GORDON:
`
`·2· · · · ·Q.· · ·Yes.· So we were reading from
`
`·3· ·column 6, line 3.
`
`·4· · · · ·A.· · ·Typically, in the world of SCSI
`
`·5· ·software, it would inquire as to specific
`
`·6· ·parameters of the device to try to understand
`
`·7· ·what capabilities -- let's see.· Actually,
`
`·8· ·given that these were general purpose SCSI
`
`·9· ·hard disk drivers, they wouldn't -- the
`
`10· ·software would treat the attached device in
`
`11· ·Figure 1 as a hard disk, and once it knows
`
`12· ·it's a hard disk, it would gather the hard
`
`13· ·disk parameters, such as size, maximum block
`
`14· ·size and that sort of thing and that's all it
`
`15· ·would find out.
`
`16· · · · · · · · The standard SCSI software
`
`17· ·wouldn't -- upon seeing that this is a hard
`
`18· ·disk, would not concern itself with whatever
`
`19· ·is attached to the data transmit/receive side
`
`20· ·of Figure 1.
`
`21· · · · ·Q.· · ·All right.· And in this portion
`
`22· ·we've been reading from, starting at
`
`23· ·approximately line 8, it says that the
`
`24· ·multipurpose interface program issues an
`
`25· ·instruction, "known by those skilled in the
`
`
`
`·1· ·art as the inquiry instruction."· And what is
`
`·2· ·the purpose of the inquiry instruction in
`
`·3· ·this portion?
`
`·4· · · · ·A.· · ·The purpose of the inquiry
`
`·5· ·instruction is to find out, among other
`
`·6· ·things, what class of device is present at a
`
`·7· ·particular target ID.
`
`·8· · · · ·Q.· · ·And is a hard drive a class of
`
`·9· ·device?
`
`10· · · · ·A.· · ·It is.· It's class zero.
`
`11· · · · ·Q.· · ·Class zero.· And that's a SCSI
`
`12· ·class you're referring to?
`
`13· · · · ·A.· · ·Yes.
`
`14· · · · ·Q.· · ·All right.· And why is the
`
`15· ·inquiry instruction an instruction known by
`
`16· ·those skilled in the art?
`
`17· · · · ·A.· · ·Did you say why?· I didn't
`
`18· ·understand that to be a question.
`
`19· · · · ·Q.· · ·Yes.
`
`20· · · · ·A.· · ·Why what?
`
`21· · · · ·Q.· · ·So this portion of the '399
`
`22· ·sentence -- patent says it issues, "an
`
`23· ·instruction known by those skilled in the art
`
`24· ·as the inquiry instruction."· So I'm trying
`
`25· ·to understand why that was a type of
`
`
`
`·1· ·instruction that would've been known by those
`
`·2· ·skilled in the art at the time of the
`
`·3· ·'399 patent?
`
`·4· · · · · · · · MR. DONAHUE:· Object to form.
`
`·5· · · · ·A.· · ·It's part of the SCSI spec, and
`
`·6· ·it's described in the SCSI spec as the way in
`
`·7· ·which a host can determine what type of
`
`·8· ·device it's talking to over the multipurpose
`
`·9· ·SCSI interface.
`
`10· ·BY MS. GORDON:
`
`11· · · · ·Q.· · ·And what is the SCSI
`
`12· ·specification you're referring to?
`
`13· · · · ·A.· · ·It would be the version of the
`
`14· ·SCSI spec that was in effect at the time of
`
`15· ·the invention.· Let's see if they cite it.
`
`16· · · · · · · · (Witness reviews document.)
`
`17· · · · ·A.· · ·No specific version of the SCSI
`
`18· ·specification is cited in the description, so
`
`19· ·as one of ordinary skill in the art, I would
`
`20· ·look for the SCSI spec that was current at
`
`21· ·the time of the application.
`
`22· ·BY MS. GORDON:
`
`23· · · · ·Q.· · ·Right.· And would that be the
`
`24· ·ANSI SCSI standard?
`
`25· · · · ·A.· · ·Yes.· Whatever was current at
`
`
`
`·1· ·this time.
`
`·2· · · · ·Q.· · ·All right.· And that would be
`
`·3· ·current as of the 1997 foreign application
`
`·4· ·date of the '399 patent?
`
`·5· · · · ·A.· · ·Yes.
`
`·6· · · · ·Q.· · ·So I would like to continue
`
`·7· ·going through the preferred embodiment in
`
`·8· ·column 6.· And after the sentence we've been
`
`·9· ·talking about, the '399 patent continues,
`
`10· ·"The digital signal processor 13 receives the
`
`11· ·inquiry instruction via the first connecting
`
`12· ·device and generates a signal which is sent
`
`13· ·to the host device (not shown) again via the
`
`14· ·first connecting device 12 and the host line.
`
`15· ·This signal indicates to the host device
`
`16· ·that, for example, a hard disk drive is
`
`17· ·attached at the interface to which the
`
`18· ·inquiry instruction was sent."
`
`19· · · · · · · · And how does the signal
`
`20· ·indicate to the host device that a hard disk
`
`21· ·drive is attached to that interface?
`
`22· · · · · · · · MR. DONAHUE:· Objection, form.
`
`23· · · · ·A.· · ·The data by which the -- the
`
`24· ·data sent by the Figure 1 system in response
`
`25· ·to the inquiry command is what provides an
`
`
`
`·1· ·indication.· The format of that data is
`
`·2· ·described in the SCSI spec.
`
`·3· ·BY MS. GORDON:
`
`·4· · · · ·Q.· · ·And so this would be the
`
`·5· ·inquiry data in the SCSI standard at the time
`
`·6· ·of the '399 patent?
`
`·7· · · · ·A.· · ·Yes.
`
`·8· · · · ·Q.· · ·All right.· And this portion
`
`·9· ·talks about an interface to which the inquiry
`
`10· ·instruction was sent.· Is that the interface
`
`11· ·in Figure 1 that's labeled "11"?
`
`12· · · · ·A.· · ·Well, 11 is the bus line, the
`
`13· ·cable.· The interface itself would be the
`
`14· ·element 12 of Figure 1.
`
`15· · · · ·Q.· · ·And that's the first connecting
`
`16· ·device?
`
`17· · · · ·A.· · ·Right.
`
`18· · · · ·Q.· · ·Is the interface device of the
`
`19· ·'399 patent actually a hard drive?
`
`20· · · · ·A.· · ·No.
`
`21· · · · ·Q.· · ·So you're saying that the
`
`22· ·interface device of the '399 patent
`
`23· ·masquerades as a hard drive, but it is not
`
`24· ·actually a hard drive?
`
`25· · · · ·A.· · ·That's right.
`
`
`
`·1· · · · ·Q.· · ·So continuing in column 6 at
`
`·2· ·line 22, the '399 specification states, "If
`
`·3· ·the host device receives the response that a
`
`·4· ·drive is present, it then sends a request to
`
`·5· ·the interface device to read the boot
`
`·6· ·sequence which, on actual hard disks,
`
`·7· ·normally resides on the first sectors of the
`
`·8· ·disk."
`
`·9· · · · · · · · What is the command that is
`
`10· ·sent from the host device to cause it to read
`
`11· ·the boot sequence?
`
`12· · · · ·A.· · ·Just a read command addressing
`
`13· ·particular blocks of the drive address space.
`
`14· · · · ·Q.· · ·All right.· And what blocks
`
`15· ·would the read command address to read the
`
`16· ·boot sequence?
`
`17· · · · ·A.· · ·Depends on the nature --
`
`18· ·depends on the file system that the host is
`
`19· ·designed to detect.· Some hosts are clever
`
`20· ·and they're designed to detect more than one
`
`21· ·file system, but generally, you read the
`
`22· ·first block, block zero of the drive, and
`
`23· ·that gives you some idea of how the drive
`
`24· ·is -- how the data on the drive is
`
`25· ·structured.· And from there, the rules for a
`
`
`
`·1· ·particular file system dictate that you read
`
`·2· ·other blocks indicated by some data in the
`
`·3· ·first block and ultimately you figure out
`
`·4· ·what the file system is of the -- of this
`
`·5· ·device.
`
`·6· · · · ·Q.· · ·What would happen if the host
`
`·7· ·device would make a read request that
`
`·8· ·specified an address outside of the range
`
`·9· ·that stored the boot sequence?
`
`10· · · · · · · · MR. DONAHUE:· Object to form.
`
`11· · · · ·A.· · ·Well, as long as -- I mean, it
`
`12· ·would get whatever is there as long as
`
`13· ·that -- as long as the block it's requesting
`
`14· ·is within the bounds of the disk.· As long as
`
`15· ·it's lower than or equal to the maximum block
`
`16· ·number on the drive, it would get whatever is
`
`17· ·stored there.
`
`18· ·BY MS. GORDON:
`
`19· · · · ·Q.· · ·You said "wrinkle to."· What do
`
`20· ·you mean by that?
`
`21· · · · ·A.· · ·I'm not sure how I used the
`
`22· ·word "wrinkle" just then.
`
`23· · · · ·Q.· · ·You said "as long as it's lower
`
`24· ·than a wrinkle to the max number"?
`
`25· · · · ·A.· · ·Oh, I didn't say "wrinkle."· If
`
`
`
`·1· ·I -- I didn't -- that's not my answer.· As
`
`·2· ·long -- oh, "or equal to," not "wrinkle," but
`
`·3· ·"or equal to.· As long as the block is a
`
`·4· ·legal block within the advertised size of the
`
`·5· ·drive, then it will get whatever is stored
`
`·6· ·there.
`
`·7· · · · ·Q.· · ·What would happen if the read
`
`·8· ·request from the host device sent an address
`
`·9· ·that was outside of the size of the drive?
`
`10· · · · ·A.· · ·It would get some sort of
`
`11· ·error.
`
`12· · · · ·Q.· · ·And what type of error would it
`
`13· ·receive?
`
`14· · · · · · · · MR. DONAHUE:· Object to form.
`
`15· · · · ·A.· · ·You know, I haven't looked
`
`16· ·at -- you'd have to show me the SCSI spec or
`
`17· ·at least the Schmidt book.· When you read
`
`18· ·beyond the bounds of the drive, you're going
`
`19· ·to get some sort of check condition and
`
`20· ·you sense the result of the check condition
`
`21· ·and you'll see some error flag that indicates
`
`22· ·you accessed an illegal block.
`
`23· ·BY MS. GORDON:
`
`24· · · · ·Q.· · ·So in the '399 patent
`
`25· ·embodiment, it is possible to have a
`
`
`
`·1· ·condition where a read command would
`
`·2· ·encounter an error?
`
`·3· · · · · · · · MR. DONAHUE:· Object to form.
`
`·4· · · · ·A.· · ·In any SCSI system, it's
`
`·5· ·possible to have a read command produce an
`
`·6· ·error.· '399 does not teach accessing beyond
`
`·7· ·the bounds of the drive.
`
`·8· ·BY MS. GORDON:
`
`·9· · · · ·Q.· · ·All right.· But it's possible
`
`10· ·to read beyond the bounds of the drive in the
`
`11· ·system of the '399 patent, correct?
`
`12· · · · · · · · MR. DONAHUE:· Object to form.
`
`13· · · · ·A.· · ·I don't think I understand your
`
`14· ·question.
`
`15· ·BY MS. GORDON:
`
`16· · · · ·Q.· · ·All right.· You said that the
`
`17· ·'399 patent does not teach accessing "beyond
`
`18· ·the bounds of the drive."· And my question
`
`19· ·was, is it possible to issue a read command
`
`20· ·that asks for an address beyond the bounds of
`
`21· ·the drive in the system of the '399 patent?
`
`22· · · · ·A.· · ·Well, it's possible in any SCSI
`
`23· ·system that the host could, for whatever
`
`24· ·reason, access a block beyond the bounds of
`
`25· ·the drive.· For example, if there's a -- if
`
`
`
`·1· ·there was a data error in the -- if there was
`
`·2· ·an incorrect data value in the -- in the
`
`·3· ·information that described -- for example,
`
`·4· ·one -- among the things you read when you
`
`·5· ·read the basic information about a file
`
`·6· ·structure, pointers to various places in the
`
`·7· ·disk, including pointers to directories, if
`
`·8· ·one of those pointers were in error, then
`
`·9· ·trying to follow that pointer would result in
`
`10· ·an error.
`
`11· · · · · · · · However, the '399 teaches
`
`12· ·providing a consistent view of a -- of a disk
`
`13· ·so that the -- the data it provides would
`
`14· ·make sense to a host.
`
`15· · · · ·Q.· · ·All right.
`
`16· · · · ·A.· · ·So if you follow the teachings
`
`17· ·in this emulated drive, you're not going to
`
`18· ·provide an erroneous pointer.
`
`19· · · · ·Q.· · ·Okay.· So going back to the
`
`20· ·flow that's described in the preferred
`
`21· ·embodiment that we were talking about, it
`
`22· ·indicated that if the host device receives a
`
`23· ·response that the drive is present, it then
`
`24· ·sends the request to read the boot sequence.
`
`25· · · · · · · · What would happen if at that
`
`
`
`·1· ·point instead of sending a read request, for
`
`·2· ·whatever reason, the host would send a write
`
`·3· ·request?
`
`·4· · · · ·A.· · ·Then if the write -- provided
`
`·5· ·the write request were within the bounds of
`
`·6· ·the drive size, it would be executed.
`
`·7· · · · ·Q.· · ·All right.· And if the write
`
`·8· ·request was outside of the bounds of the
`
`·9· ·drive size?
`
`10· · · · ·A.· · ·Then the host would experience
`
`11· ·an error.
`
`12· · · · ·Q.· · ·All right.· And that would be a
`
`13· ·similar error to what we discussed for the
`
`14· ·read command?
`
`15· · · · ·A.· · ·Most likely it will be an out
`
`16· ·of bounds error.· Some sort of check
`
`17· ·condition based on an illegal block.
`
`18· · · · ·Q.· · ·All right.· And the check
`
`19· ·condition you're mentioning, is that a status
`
`20· ·condition in the SCSI standard?
`
`21· · · · ·A.· · ·Something like that.· I've
`
`22· ·forgotten the details of how out of bounds
`
`23· ·accesses are dealt with, but the standard
`
`24· ·describes that in some detail.
`
`25· · · · ·Q.· · ·Okay.· And I would like to turn
`
`
`
`·1· ·your attention to the bottom of column 7,
`
`·2· ·specifically line 30 of 63.· Do you see the
`
`·3· ·mention of a configuration file in this
`
`·4· ·portion of the '399 specification?
`
`·5· · · · ·A.· · ·Yes.
`
`·6· · · · ·Q.· · ·What is the function of the
`
`·7· ·configuration file described in the
`
`·8· ·'399 patent?
`
`·9· · · · · · · · MR. DONAHUE:· Object to form.
`
`10· · · · ·A.· · ·Starting at line 33, it says
`
`11· ·the file, "whose entries automatically set
`
`12· ·and control various functions of the
`
`13· ·interface device 10, on the interface device
`
`14· ·10 which appears to the host device as a hard
`
`15· ·disk."
`
`16· · · · · · · · So it's for configuring --
`
`17· ·further configuring -- by writing particular
`
`18· ·data into a file which appears as an ordinary
`
`19· ·file in the drive, you can actually
`
`20· ·control -- the host can control the aspects
`
`21· ·of the data acquisition system.
`
`22· ·BY MS. GORDON:
`
`23· · · · ·Q.· · ·All right.· And what can be
`
`24· ·configured using this configuration file?
`
`25· · · · ·A.· · ·It suggests here, starting at
`
`
`
`·1· ·line 36, that, "These settings can be, for
`
`·2· ·example, gain, multiplex or sampling rate
`
`·3· ·settings."· Oh, I see -- that's the first
`
`·4· ·example it gives, is setting "gain, multiplex
`
`·5· ·or sampling rate settings" in the -- inside
`
`·6· ·the Figure 1 system.
`
`·7· · · · ·Q.· · ·And you're reading from
`
`·8· ·column 7; is that correct?
`
`·9· · · · ·A.· · ·Yes.
`
`10· · · · ·Q.· · ·And the configuration file is
`
`11· ·created at the host device?
`
`12· · · · · · · · MR. DONAHUE:· Object to form.
`
`13· · · · ·A.· · ·That's what it states at
`
`14· ·line 32.
`
`15· ·BY MS. GORDON:
`
`16· · · · ·Q.· · ·All right.· Would it be stored
`
`17· ·at the host device?
`
`18· · · · · · · · MR. DONAHUE:· Same objection.
`
`19· · · · · · · · (Witness reviews document.)
`
`20· · · · ·A.· · ·It would be a file on the
`
`21· ·device in Figure 1, because as it states here
`
`22· ·in line 33, the entries of this file
`
`23· ·"automatically set and control various
`
`24· ·functions of the interface device 10."
`
`25· · · · · · · · So in order for it to have that
`
`
`
`·1· ·automatic effect, it would need to be stored
`
`·2· ·on that device so that the device's processor
`
`·3· ·could access the configuration information
`
`·4· ·and do what the user wants done.
`
`·5· ·BY MS. GORDON:
`
`·6· · · · ·Q.· · ·But the configuration file is
`
`·7· ·created at the host device.
`
`·8· · · · ·A.· · ·It's created by the host device
`
`·9· ·under the direction of the user on the
`
`10· ·storage provided by the Figure 1 system.
`
`11· · · · ·Q.· · ·And how does a user access the
`
`12· ·configuration file in order to make changes
`
`13· ·to the interface device?
`
`14· · · · · · · · MR. DONAHUE:· Object to form.
`
`15· · · · ·A.· · ·Writes the file with different
`
`16· ·information.
`
`17· ·BY MS. GORDON:
`
`18· · · · ·Q.· · ·And that would be a write
`
`19· ·command?
`
`20· · · · ·A.· · ·It would.
`
`21· · · · ·Q.· · ·All right.· I would like to
`
`22· ·turn your attention to paragraph 10 of your
`
`23· ·declaration.· And in this paragraph, you're
`
`24· ·discussing some of the activities that you
`
`25· ·performed while at Softix, Incorporated, and
`
`
`
`·1· ·specifically four lines from the bottom, you
`
`·2· ·mention your work designing a switch and a
`
`·3· ·repeater for the SCSI bus which required
`
`·4· ·intimate knowledge of the bus protocol and
`
`·5· ·general familiarity with the bus commands in
`
`·6· ·the device interface design.
`
`·7· · · · · · · · Would you consider yourself an
`
`·8· ·expert on SCSI?
`
`·9· · · · · · · · MR. DONAHUE:· Object to the
`
`10· · · · ·form.
`
`11· · · · ·A.· · ·Yes.
`
`12· ·BY MS. GORDON:
`
`13· · · · ·Q.· · ·Okay.· And would you consider
`
`14· ·yourself an expert on the SCSI protocol in
`
`15· ·1997?
`
`16· · · · ·A.· · ·Yes.
`
`17· · · · ·Q.· · ·All right.· So Mr. Gafford, I
`
`18· ·would like to talk generally about SCSI.· I'm
`
`19· ·going to hand you a few documents I think
`
`20· ·you've already referred to earlier in your
`
`21· ·testimony today.· So the first document I'm
`
`22· ·handing you has been marked as Exhibit 1007
`
`23· ·to this deposition.· And this is a book
`
`24· ·entitled "The SCSI Bus and IDE Interface," by
`
`25· ·Friedhelm Schmidt.· Do you recognize this
`
`
`
`·1· ·document?
`
`·2· · · · ·A.· · ·Yes.
`
`·3· · · · ·Q.· · ·And does Schmidt provide
`
`·4· ·information regarding the SCSI standard?
`
`·5· · · · ·A.· · ·He does.
`
`·6· · · · ·Q.· · ·All right.· So I'm also going
`
`·7· ·to be handing you what's been marked as
`
`·8· ·Exhibit 1012 to this proceeding.· And this is
`
`·9· ·titled the "American National Standards
`
`10· ·Institute for Information Systems - Small
`
`11· ·Computer System Interface-2."· And it's given
`
`12· ·a document number ANSI X3.131.
`
`13· · · · · · · · Mr. Gafford, do you recognize
`
`14· ·this document?
`
`15· · · · ·A.· · ·Yes.
`
`16· · · · ·Q.· · ·And is this the SCSI standard
`
`17· ·that you were referring to earlier in your
`
`18· ·testimony?
`
`19· · · · ·A.· · ·Yes.
`
`20· · · · ·Q.· · ·And what does the "1994" date
`
`21· ·reflect in the title of this document?
`
`22· · · · ·A.· · ·It reflects that this version
`
`23· ·of the standard was adopted in 1994.
`
`24· · · · ·Q.· · ·And is SCSI-2 still an active
`
`25· ·standard?
`
`
`
`·1· · · · ·A.· · ·I don't know.· I don't think
`
`·2· ·any standard has been abandoned.· If you say
`
`·3· ·that you're -- you have constructed
`
`·4· ·according -- an i
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