· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·IPR2016-01790
`
`· · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·U.S. Patent No. 9,043,093
`
`· · ·UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`
`· · · · · · · · · ·__________________
`
`· · · BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`· · · · · · · · · ·__________________
`
`·AUTOLIV ASP, INC., NIHON PLAST CO., LTD., NEATON
`
`AUTO PRODUCTS MANUFACTURING INC., TAKATA CORP., TK
`
`· HOLIDINGS, INC., TOYDA GOSEI CO., LTD., HYUNDAI
`
`· ·MOBIS CO., LTD, MOBIS ALABAMA, LLC, AND MOBIS
`
`· · · · · · · · · PARTS AMERICA, LLC.
`
`· · · · · · · · · · · ·Petitioners
`
`· · · · · · · · · · · · · ·vs.
`
`· · · · · · ·AMERICAN VEHICULAR SCIENCES,
`
`· · · · · · · · · · · Patent Owner
`· · · · · · · · · ___________________
`
`· · ·Inter Partes Review Case No. IPR2016-01790
`· · · · · · · · · ·Patent 9,043,093
`
`· · · · DEPOSITION OF DR. STEPHEN W. ROUHANA
`
`· · · · · Taken before Sabrina Boyd, Professional
`
`Reporter and Notary Public in and for the District
`
`of Columbia, on June 8, 2017 at 10:00 a.m., at
`
`Sughrue Mion, PLLC., 2100 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW,
`
`Washington, D.C., 20037-3213, pursuant to Notice
`
`of Taking Deposition filed by the Plaintiff in the
`
`above cause.
`
`
`
`· · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·U.S. Patent No. 9,043,093
`
`· · ·UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`
`· · · · · · · · · ·__________________
`
`· · · BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`· · · · · · · · · ·__________________
`
`·AUTOLIV ASP, INC., NIHON PLAST CO., LTD., NEATON
`
`AUTO PRODUCTS MANUFACTURING INC., TAKATA CORP., TK
`
`· HOLIDINGS, INC., TOYDA GOSEI CO., LTD., HYUNDAI
`
`· ·MOBIS CO., LTD, MOBIS ALABAMA, LLC, AND MOBIS
`
`· · · · · · · · · PARTS AMERICA, LLC.
`
`· · · · · · · · · · · ·Petitioners
`
`· · · · · · · · · · · · · ·vs.
`
`· · · · · · ·AMERICAN VEHICULAR SCIENCES,
`
`· · · · · · · · · · · Patent Owner
`· · · · · · · · · ___________________
`
`· · ·Inter Partes Review Case No. IPR2016-01790
`· · · · · · · · · ·Patent 9,043,093
`
`· · · · DEPOSITION OF DR. STEPHEN W. ROUHANA
`
`· · · · · Taken before Sabrina Boyd, Professional
`
`Reporter and Notary Public in and for the District
`
`of Columbia, on June 8, 2017 at 10:00 a.m., at
`
`Sughrue Mion, PLLC., 2100 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW,
`
`Washington, D.C., 20037-3213, pursuant to Notice
`
`of Taking Deposition filed by the Plaintiff in the
`
`above cause.
`
`
`
`APPEARANCES:
`
`ON BEHALF OF THE TOYODA GOSEI PETITIONERS:
`
`· · · By:· John Bird, Esq.
`
`· · · · · · Sughrue
`
`· · · · · · 2100 Pennsylvania Avenue NW
`
`· · · · · · Washington, DC· 20037
`
`· · · · · · 202-775-7584
`
`· · · · · ·jbird@sughrue.com
`
`ON BEHALF OF TAKATA PETITIONERS:
`
`· · ·By:· ·Brian C. Claassen, Esq.
`
`· · · · · · Shri Abhyankar, Esq.
`
`· · · · · · Knobbe Martens
`
`· · · · · · 2040 Main Street 14th Floor
`
`· · · · · · Irvine, CA· 92614
`
`· · · · · · 949-760-0404
`
`· · · · · · Brian.Classen@Knobbe.com
`
`ON BEHALF OF PETITIONER HYUNDAI MOBIS, MOBILS
`
`ALABAMA, AND MOBIS PARTS AMERICA:
`
`· · ·By:· ·Dae-Hee Cho (Dan), Esq.
`
`· · · · · · Sheppard Mullin Richter & Hampton
`
`· · · · · · LLP12275 El Camino Real, Suite 200
`
`· · · · · · San Diego, CA· 02130-2006
`
`· · · · · · 858-720-8924
`
`· · · · · · dcho@sheppardmullin.com
`
`
`
`APPEARANCES CONTINUED:
`
`ON BEHALF OF NIHON PLAST and NEATON AUTO PRODUCTS:
`
`· · ·By:· William Oldach, Esq.
`
`· · · · · ·1909 K Street NW, 9th Floor
`
`· · · · · ·Washington, D.C.· 20006
`
`· · · · · ·202-467-8880
`
`· · · · · ·woldach@vorys.com
`
`ON BEHALF OF THE PATENT OWNER:
`
`· · ·By:· ·Gregory J. Gonsalves, Esq.
`
`· · · · · · Gonsalves Law Firm
`
`· · · · · · 2216 Beacon Lane
`
`· · · · · · Falls Church, VA· 22043
`
`· · · · · · 571-419-7252
`
`
`
`STEPHEN ROUHANA
`AUTOLIV ASP vs AMERICAN VEHICULAR SCIENCES
`
`06/08/2017
`4
`
`· · · · · · · · · · · · · - - -
`
`· · · · · · · · · · · · I N D E X
`
`· · · · · · · · · · · · · - - -
`
`Examination by· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·Page
`
`Examination by°
`
`— 888.445.3376
`
`202.898.1108
`
`www.01enderreporting.com
`
`Worldwide Coverage
`
`
`
`·1
`·1· · · ·Thereupon,
`·2· · · · · · · · · ·DR. STEPHEN W. ROUHANA
`
`·3· being sworn by the undersigned Court Reporter
`
`·4· first duly sworn, was examined and testified as
`
`·5· follows:
`
`·6· · · · · · · · ·THE REPORTER:· All right.· Well, I'm
`
`·7· · · · · · going to start off by the witness and
`
`·8· · · · · · then go down, identify yourself.
`
`·9· · · · · · · · ·DR. ROUHANA:· Dr. Stephen Rouhana.
`
`10· · · · · · · · ·MR. BIRD:· John Bird of Sughrue Mion,
`
`11· · · · · · on behalf of Toyoda Gosei.
`
`12· · · · · · · · ·MR. CLAASSEN:· Brian Claassen, Knobbe
`
`13· · · · · · Martens on behalf of the Takata
`
`14· · · · · · Petitioners.
`
`15· · · · · · · · ·MS. ABHYANKAR:· Shri Abhyankar and
`
`16· · · · · · Wes Achey, Alston and Bird, on behalf of
`
`17· · · · · · petitioners.
`
`18· · · · · · · · ·MR. OLDACH:· Bill Oldach, Vorys,
`
`19· · · · · · Sater for petitioners Nihon Plast and
`
`20· · · · · · Neaton Auto Products.
`
`21· · · · · · · · ·MR. GONSALVES:· Dr. Gregory
`
`22· · · · · · Gonsalves, representing the patent owner
`
`23· · · · · · of American Vehicular Sciences.
`
`24· · · · · · · · ·MR. CHO:· And this is Dan Cho Anoy
`
`25· · · · · · (phonetic).· I'm representing petitioners
`
`
`
`·1· · · · · · Hyundai Mobis, Mobis Alabama, and Mobis
`
`·2· · · · · · Parts America.
`
`·3· · · · · · · · · · ·DIRECT EXAMINATION
`
`·4· BY MR. GONSALVES:
`
`·5· · · ·Q.· Dr. Rouhana, will you please state your
`
`·6· name and address for the record?
`
`·7· · · ·A.· My business address?· Or --
`
`·8· · · ·Q.· That would be fine.
`
`·9· · · ·A.· Okay.· It's Dr. Stephen Rouhana.· And my
`
`10· address is 47526 Cliffer Street, Number 701952,
`
`11· Plymouth, Michigan, 48170.
`
`12· · · ·Q.· And do you understand that you are under
`
`13· oath to testify truthfully?
`
`14· · · ·A.· I do.
`
`15· · · ·Q.· Today I'm going to ask you questions, and
`
`16· if you do not understand the question would you
`
`17· let me know?
`
`18· · · ·A.· I will.
`
`19· · · ·Q.· Is there anything that would prevent you
`
`20· from testifying accurately today?
`
`21· · · ·A.· No.
`
`22· · · ·Q.· Are you taking any medications for any
`
`23· illness that would interfere with your ability to
`
`24· testify accurately?
`
`25· · · ·A.· No.
`
`
`
`·1· · · ·Q.· What do you understand your role to be in
`
`·2· this matter?
`
`·3· · · ·A.· ·I am a witness.· I've -- I’m a witness
`
`·4· who's reviewed the patents in question and I'm
`
`·5· supposed to answer your questions.
`
`·6· · · ·Q.· Just a second.· I have to grab a block
`
`·7· here.
`
`·8· · · ·A.· Oh, I'm sorry.· Just to be clear, today
`
`·9· we're talking about the 790 IPR today.
`
`10· · · ·Q.· That's correct.
`
`11· · · ·A.· And then the 794 tomorrow.
`
`12· · · ·Q.· That's correct.
`
`13· · · ·A.· Okay.
`
`14· · · ·Q.· Dr. Rouhana, I'm going to hand you a
`
`15· document that's previously been marked as Exhibit
`
`16· 1003.· For most of these I have multiple copies,
`
`17· but for a couple of them, I don't.· But you have a
`
`18· copy of this.· And for ones where you need a copy
`
`19· I can e-mail a soft copy to you, and you can --
`
`20· well --
`
`21· · · · · · · · ·MR. BIRD:· If you have the exhibit
`
`22· · · · · · number from the IPR that's fine for us.
`
`23· BY MR. GONSALVES:
`
`24· · · ·Q.· And I'm handing you what's been marked as
`
`25· Exhibit 1003, which is your declaration.· Is that
`
`
`
`·1· correct?
`
`·2· · · ·A.· That is correct.
`
`·3· · · ·Q.· And I assume that you have reviewed your
`
`·4· declaration before coming to this deposition
`
`·5· today?
`
`·6· · · ·A.· That is correct.
`
`·7· · · ·Q.· As you sit here today, is there anything
`
`·8· that you would like to clarify or restate in your
`
`·9· declaration?
`
`10· · · ·A.· No.
`
`11· · · ·Q.· How were you retained in this matter?
`
`12· · · ·A.· I don't understand that question.
`
`13· · · ·Q.· Well, you were retained to serve as an
`
`14· expert in this inter partes review, correct?
`
`15· · · ·A.· Yes.
`
`16· · · ·Q.· And what were the circumstances on which
`
`17· you were retained?
`
`18· · · ·A.· I still don't understand.
`
`19· · · ·Q.· Well, at some point you got hired to work
`
`20· on this case.
`
`21· · · ·A.· That's correct.
`
`22· · · ·Q.· So, and at some point you weren't working
`
`23· on it.
`
`24· · · ·A.· Right.
`
`25· · · ·Q.· So, how did you get to the state where
`
`
`
`·1· you weren't working on it, and then all of a
`
`·2· sudden you were retained to work on it?
`
`·3· · · ·A.· It was a long time ago.· I believe I
`
`·4· received a call from Mr. Bird.
`
`·5· · · ·Q.· ·Have you worked on any other matters for
`
`·6· any of the petitioners in this IPR, and the
`
`·7· petitioners listed on the first page of your
`
`·8· declaration?
`
`·9· · · · · · Have you worked on any other matters for
`
`10· any of the petitioners in this IPR?
`
`11· · · ·A.· Are you talking about legal matters?
`
`12· · · ·Q.· Yes.
`
`13· · · ·A.· I don't believe so.
`
`14· · · ·Q.· This IPR is the only legal matter that
`
`15· you've worked on for any of the petitioners listed
`
`16· on the front page of your declaration?
`
`17· · · ·A.· I believe that's correct.
`
`18· · · ·Q.· What is your billing rate for this inter
`
`19· partes review?
`
`20· · · ·A.· It's $500 per hour.
`
`21· · · ·Q.· And roughly how much have you billed so
`
`22· far on this matter?
`
`23· · · ·A.· For this deposition or the whole matter?
`
`24· · · ·Q.· Since you started working, up until the
`
`25· present day.
`
`
`
`·1· · · ·A.· So far, I believe I've billed around 140
`
`·2· hours.
`
`·3· · · ·Q.· How many times have you been deposed
`
`·4· prior to today?
`
`·5· · · ·A.· In what context?
`
`·6· · · ·Q.· Well, just any context.· Let's start off
`
`·7· with that first.
`
`·8· · · ·A.· I don't know the exact number, but it's
`
`·9· close to 20.
`
`10· · · ·Q.· How many times have you testified at a
`
`11· trial?
`
`12· · · ·A.· Once.
`
`13· · · ·Q.· And of the one trial that you mentioned,
`
`14· did that involve a patent?
`
`15· · · ·A.· No.
`
`16· · · ·Q.· What type of trial was that?
`
`17· · · ·A.· It was a product liability trial.
`
`18· · · · · · · · ·THE REPORTER:· Can you repeat that?
`
`19· · · · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· It was a product
`
`20· · · · · · liability trial.
`
`21· BY MR. GONSALVES:
`
`22· · · ·Q.· Have you ever worked as an expert in a
`
`23· patent litigation?
`
`24· · · ·A.· Yes.
`
`25· · · ·Q.· About how many times?
`
`
`
`·1· · · ·A.· Two other cases.
`
`·2· · · ·Q.· And for the two patent litigations that
`
`·3· you mentioned, approximate how many were on behalf
`
`·4· of a patent owner?
`
`·5· · · ·A.· Pardon?
`
`·6· · · ·Q.· For the two patent litigations that you
`
`·7· mentioned, were they both for a patent owner, or
`
`·8· were they both for a defendant in the patent
`
`·9· litigation?
`
`10· · · ·A.· I believe they were both for defendant.
`
`11· · · ·Q.· Have you worked on any other inter partes
`
`12· reviews other than this one?
`
`13· · · ·A.· Yes.
`
`14· · · ·Q.· And how many?
`
`15· · · ·A.· I believe two.
`
`16· · · ·Q.· Have you worked on any litigations -- you
`
`17· mentioned that you worked on two patent
`
`18· litigations.· Have you worked as an expert on
`
`19· litigations that were not patent related?
`
`20· · · ·A.· I mentioned previously, I did product
`
`21· liability work.
`
`22· · · ·Q.· How many product liability litigations
`
`23· did you work on, approximately?
`
`24· · · ·A.· I mentioned it was around 20.· I don't
`
`25· know the exact number.· Maybe less, but it was
`
`
`
`·1· close to that.
`
`·2· · · ·Q.· What percentage of your working time this
`
`·3· year in 2017 has been spent working as an expert
`
`·4· in patent cases?
`
`·5· · · ·A.· Most of it.
`
`·6· · · ·Q.· So, would most of it be a very high
`
`·7· percentage?
`
`·8· · · ·A.· Yes.
`
`·9· · · ·Q.· Okay.· Close to 100 percent?
`
`10· · · ·A.· Yes.
`
`11· · · ·Q.· And the same question for the year 2016,
`
`12· what percentage of your working time in 2016 has
`
`13· been spent working as an expert in patent cases?
`
`14· · · ·A.· The same.
`
`15· · · ·Q.· And one more, about 2015?· What
`
`16· percentage of your work and time in 2015 has been
`
`17· spent working as an expert in patent cases?
`
`18· · · ·A.· I started my company in 2015.· I don't
`
`19· think I had any cases.
`
`20· · · ·Q.· To your knowledge has anyone ever asked a
`
`21· court or the patent office to exclude your expert
`
`22· testimony in any of the patent cases that you have
`
`23· worked on?
`
`24· · · ·A.· Not to my knowledge.
`
`25· · · ·Q.· I'm going to hand you an exhibit that has
`
`
`
`·1· been previously marked as TG Exhibit 1001.· And do
`
`·2· you recognize this exhibit?
`
`·3· · · ·A.· I do.
`
`·4· · · ·Q.· What is it?
`
`·5· · · ·A.· It's U.S. Patent 9043093.
`
`·6· · · ·Q.· And during this deposition I will refer
`
`·7· to the patents at issue in this proceeding, Patent
`
`·8· No. 9043093, as the 093 Patent.· Is that okay?
`
`·9· · · ·A.· Yes.
`
`10· · · ·Q.· This way I won't have to recite seven
`
`11· numbers every time I have to ask you a question
`
`12· about the patent.
`
`13· · · · · · Do you know the inventor of the 093
`
`14· Patent, Dr. Breed?
`
`15· · · ·A.· I do.
`
`16· · · ·Q.· How do you know him?
`
`17· · · ·A.· We first met when I was at General
`
`18· Motors, at a conference, I believe.· Or it might
`
`19· have been at a visit to the place where I worked.
`
`20· · · ·Q.· What are the names of, you mentioned the
`
`21· conference, what are the names of some of the
`
`22· conferences that people like you and Dr. Breed
`
`23· attend for automobile safety?
`
`24· · · ·A.· I can answer the conferences that I've
`
`25· attended.· I can't answer for Dr. Breed.· I attend
`
`
`
`·1· the Stapp Car Crash conference, the --
`
`·2· · · · · · · · ·THE REPORTER:· Stapp?
`
`·3· · · · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· Stapp, S-T-A-P-P.· It's
`
`·4· · · · · · somebody's name.
`
`·5· · · · · · · · ·The Society of Automotive Engineers
`
`·6· · · · · · International Congress.· The Association
`
`·7· · · · · · for the Advancement of Automotive
`
`·8· · · · · · Medicine annual conference.· The
`
`·9· · · · · · International Conference on Experimental
`
`10· · · · · · Safety Vehicles, which is run by the
`
`11· · · · · · government, and there may be others.
`
`12· · · · · · These are some of them.· I don't attend
`
`13· · · · · · every year, but I attend regularly.
`
`14· BY MR. GONSALVES:
`
`15· · · ·Q.· Have you ever heard of an award called
`
`16· the HH Bliss Award?
`
`17· · · ·A.· Not until I read some of the material in
`
`18· this case.
`
`19· · · ·Q.· Do you know what the two letters, HH,
`
`20· stand for?
`
`21· · · ·A.· I do not.
`
`22· · · ·Q.· What is the HH Bliss Award, according to
`
`23· your understanding?
`
`24· · · ·A.· From the material that I read in this
`
`25· case, it appears to have been an award given to
`
`
`
`·1· people who are involved in the early stages of
`
`·2· airbag development.
`
`·3· · · ·Q.· Were you aware that Dr. Breed had
`
`·4· received the HH Bliss Award of Appreciation
`
`·5· through the Inventors and Technical Pioneers of
`
`·6· the Airbag?
`
`·7· · · ·A· ·Only after I read it in the documents of
`
`·8· this case.
`
`·9· · · ·Q.· Did you know that Dr. Breed is the named
`
`10· inventor on over 300 United States Patents?
`
`11· · · ·A.· Not until I read it in the information
`
`12· for this case.
`
`13· · · ·Q.· How long have you been working in the
`
`14· field of vehicular airbag systems?
`
`15· · · ·A.· I started working in the automotive
`
`16· safety field in 1983, at General Motors, in the
`
`17· research laboratories.
`
`18· · · ·Q.· Did vehicular airbag systems have
`
`19· shortcomings in December of 1995, before the
`
`20· invention of the 093 patent?
`
`21· · · ·A.· Airbag systems have always had
`
`22· shortcomings, and they always will because they're
`
`23· made by people.
`
`24· · · ·Q.· And what were the shortcomings in
`
`25· December of 1995, before the invention of the 093
`
`
`
`·1· patent?
`
`·2· · · ·A· ·It depends on the airbag system.
`
`·3· · · ·Q.· Do you mean it depends on the type of
`
`·4· airbag system?
`
`·5· · · ·A.· No.· It depends on the exact design.
`
`·6· · · ·Q.· What were the problems associated with
`
`·7· front airbag systems in December of 1995, before
`
`·8· the invention of the 093 patent?
`
`·9· · · ·A.· Again, it depends on what specific airbag
`
`10· you're talking about.
`
`11· · · ·Q.· Can you think of reasons why vehicular
`
`12· airbag systems were sometimes not effective in
`
`13· December of 1995?
`
`14· · · ·A.· If you show me an airbag system and ask
`
`15· me about that particular and give me all the
`
`16· details, I might be able to elaborate on it.
`
`17· · · ·Q.· Are there some reasons why -- my question
`
`18· wasn't directed to a particular airbag system, but
`
`19· just generally, did airbag systems have instances
`
`20· where they were not effective in December of 1995?
`
`21· · · ·A.· Can you define effective for me?
`
`22· · · ·Q.· Well, I'm actually -- my question is
`
`23· directed to the state of the art of airbags in
`
`24· December of 1995.· And like any field of
`
`25· technology, as science develops, the technology
`
`
`
`·1· improves in that area.· So, and the purpose of
`
`·2· airbags is to keep people safe.· Is that correct?
`
`·3· The overall purpose?
`
`·4· · · ·A.· Yeah, and the definition is quite
`
`·5· important here.· There is no safety system that
`
`·6· I'm aware of that is 100 percent effective.· The
`
`·7· goal of safety systems is to reduce the risk or
`
`·8· the probability of serious injury or fatality.
`
`·9· · · ·Q.· And the risk of fatality in vehicles with
`
`10· airbag systems was greater in December of 1995
`
`11· than it is today, for example?
`
`12· · · ·A.· That's a general statement that I don't
`
`13· think is something I can answer.· I think very
`
`14· different engineers designing different systems,
`
`15· and some may do a better job than others.· That
`
`16· was true in '95, that's true today.
`
`17· · · ·Q.· What are some of the methods that were
`
`18· used to determine the effectiveness of airbag
`
`19· systems in December of 1995?
`
`20· · · ·A.· So, for a frontal airbag system, hybrid 3
`
`21· dummy of various sizes would be placed out of
`
`22· position, in various positions against the airbag
`
`23· to assess its potential for causing injury, and
`
`24· the same airbag systems would be assessed with
`
`25· dummies of various sizes in position to assess
`
`
`
`·1· their effectiveness when used as intended in a
`
`·2· crash.
`
`·3· · · ·Q.· Do you know what the Abbreviated Injury
`
`·4· Scale is?
`
`·5· · · ·A.· Yes, I do.
`
`·6· · · ·Q.· And what is it?
`
`·7· · · ·A.· It's a scale of threat to life based on
`
`·8· injuries that are specified, and it was developed
`
`·9· by the Association for the Advancement of
`
`10· Automotive Medicine, of which I am a member, and a
`
`11· group of engineers back in, I believe it was the
`
`12· mid '80s.
`
`13· · · ·Q.· Were airbag systems in December of 1995
`
`14· concerned only with front seat passengers in the
`
`15· vehicle?
`
`16· · · ·A.· I believe that's correct for most of
`
`17· them, yes.
`
`18· · · ·Q.· Were airbag systems in the December 1995
`
`19· time period focused on head-on collision?
`
`20· · · · · · · · ·MR. BIRD:· Objection.· Vague.
`
`21· · · · · · · · ·THE REPORTER:· Can you repeat that
`
`22· · · · · · for me?
`
`23· · · · · · · · ·MR. BIRD:· Vague.· Not sure I
`
`24· · · · · · understand the question.
`
`25· · · · · · · · ·MR. GONSALVES:· I think in IPRs
`
`
`
`·1· · · · · · there's only --
`
`·2· · · · · · · · ·MR. BIRD:· Objection to form.
`
`·3· · · · · · · · ·MR. GONSALVES:· -- one attorney
`
`·4· · · · · · that's supposed to make objections.
`
`·5· · · · · · · · ·MR. CLAASSEN:· Okay.· Objection,
`
`·6· · · · · · vague.
`
`·7· · · · · · · · ·MR. GONSALVES:· Okay.
`
`·8· · · · · · · · ·MR. BIRD:· But just to be clear, any
`
`·9· · · · · · of us can make an objection --
`
`10· · · · · · · · ·MR. CLAASSEN:· Yeah, we're all --
`
`11· · · · · · · · ·MR. BIRD:· -- throughout the day.· If
`
`12· · · · · · we need to, we will.
`
`13· BY MR. GONSALVES:
`
`14· · · ·Q.· Okay.· Do you remember the question?
`
`15· · · ·A.· If you could repeat it, that would be
`
`16· helpful.
`
`17· · · ·Q.· Okay.· Were airbag systems in December of
`
`18· 1995 time period, focused on head-on collisions?
`
`19· · · ·A.· I don't think that's an accurate
`
`20· characterization.
`
`21· · · ·Q.· What other type of collisions were airbag
`
`22· systems in December of 1995 focused on?
`
`23· · · ·A.· Airbags were mandated in vehicles, and
`
`24· according to FMVSS-208, that included everything
`
`25· from head-on collisions to plus or minus 30
`
`
`
`·1· degrees of longitudinal.
`
`·2· · · ·Q.· And this was in the December 1995 time
`
`·3· period?
`
`·4· · · ·A.· 208 was earlier than that.
`
`·5· · · ·Q.· Were any side airbag systems installed in
`
`·6· vehicles sold by December of 1995?
`
`·7· · · ·A.· In the late 90s was approximately the
`
`·8· time that side airbags began appearing in
`
`·9· vehicles.· There may have been some.· I don't
`
`10· remember exactly, in '95.
`
`11· · · ·Q.· Would you agree that there are two types
`
`12· of performance standards, one for frontal
`
`13· collisions and one for side collisions?
`
`14· · · ·A.· It's a difficult question to answer. I
`
`15· don't agree with that statement in general.· Yeah.
`
`16· · · ·Q.· Okay.· So, does the United States have
`
`17· performance standards for airbag systems?
`
`18· · · ·A.· Yes.
`
`19· · · ·Q.· Okay.· And there's one type of
`
`20· performance standard in the United States for
`
`21· frontal collision?
`
`22· · · ·A.· Yes.
`
`23· · · ·Q.· And there's one type of performance
`
`24· standard in the United States for side collision?
`
`25· · · ·A.· Are you talking about government
`
`
`
`·1· standards?
`
`·2· · · ·Q.· Right.· U.S. Government.
`
`·3· · · ·A.· To my knowledge there is not a
`
`·4· performance standard.· Well, it's a side impact
`
`·5· standard.· So, how you achieve the performance of
`
`·6· the dummy is immaterial, but the numbers are
`
`·7· important.
`
`·8· · · ·Q.· So, so far you've indicated that in the
`
`·9· United States there's a performance standard for
`
`10· frontal collision and there's a performance
`
`11· standard for side impact.· Is that correct?
`
`12· · · ·A.· Yes.
`
`13· · · ·Q.· Are there any other standards besides
`
`14· those two in the United States?
`
`15· · · ·A.· Yes.
`
`16· · · ·Q.· What are they?
`
`17· · · ·A.· They're rear impact performance
`
`18· standards, rollover performance standards, many
`
`19· others.
`
`20· · · ·Q.· So, so far you've mentioned front, side,
`
`21· rear, and rollover.· Any other performance
`
`22· standards in the United States besides the four
`
`23· that you mentioned?
`
`24· · · ·A.· The Federal Motor Vehicle Safety
`
`25· Standards are replete with standards.· I don't
`
`
`
`·1· know all of them.
`
`·2· · · ·Q.· Can you think of any others besides the
`
`·3· four that you mentioned?
`
`·4· · · ·A.· There are standards for the diameter of
`
`·5· knobs in a vehicle.· There are standards for
`
`·6· electric vehicles in terms of noise, so that they
`
`·7· don't -- so blind people can hear them as they're
`
`·8· coming down the street.· So, there are many
`
`·9· standards.
`
`10· · · ·Q.· I intended my question to be limited to
`
`11· airbag standards.
`
`12· · · ·A.· You didn't say that.
`
`13· · · ·Q.· So, the four that you've mentioned so far
`
`14· have been frontal impact standards, side impact
`
`15· standard, rear -- is rear impact standard a
`
`16· standard for airbag systems?
`
`17· · · ·A.· The government doesn't -- the government
`
`18· doesn't, except in the case of drive airbags in
`
`19· the initial FMVSS-208, the government typically
`
`20· issues a performance standard and they don't care
`
`21· what technology you use to get there, as long as
`
`22· you achieve the performance.
`
`23· · · ·Q.· But, I'm just trying to understand your
`
`24· testimony.· You had mentioned the rear impact
`
`25· standard.
`
`
`
`·1· · · ·A.· Yes.
`
`·2· · · ·Q.· The rear impact standard that you
`
`·3· mentioned, does that relate to airbag systems?
`
`·4· · · ·A.· It could, if you intend to meet -- the
`
`·5· performance standards are a crash test, and if you
`
`·6· intend to meet the regulated values with the crash
`
`·7· dummy, using an airbag, then the performance
`
`·8· standard would apply to that airbag.· But, it's
`
`·9· really a vehicle standard.
`
`10· · · ·Q.· And the rollover performance standards
`
`11· you mentioned also applies to airbags?
`
`12· · · ·A.· Again, if you intend to meet the standard
`
`13· using an airbag, then in that sense it would apply
`
`14· to the airbag.
`
`15· · · ·Q.· So, with respect to airbags, you had
`
`16· mentioned the frontal impact standard, the side
`
`17· impact standard, the rear impact standard, and the
`
`18· rollover standard.· Can you think of any other
`
`19· standards with respect to airbags?
`
`20· · · ·A.· And again, I have to ask what type of
`
`21· standard because there are many different
`
`22· standards organizations in the world.
`
`23· · · ·Q.· So, this, my question is on the United
`
`24· States right now.
`
`25· · · ·A.· Specific to the U.S. Government?
`
`
`
`·1· · · ·Q.· Correct.
`
`·2· · · ·A.· There is a new standard that's under
`
`·3· development, or was under development as I retired
`
`·4· and I haven't followed that, but it's oblique
`
`·5· impact.· Which again, it's not an airbag standard,
`
`·6· it's a crash standard.· But if you use an airbag
`
`·7· to address it then in that sense it would be an
`
`·8· airbag standard.
`
`·9· · · ·Q.· Any other U.S. standards relating to
`
`10· airbags, other than the five that you've
`
`11· mentioned, that you can think of?
`
`12· · · ·A.· Not that I can recall at this moment.
`
`13· · · ·Q.· So, the frontal impact performance
`
`14· standard that you mentioned, did that exist in
`
`15· December of 1995?
`
`16· · · ·A.· Yes.
`
`17· · · ·Q.· The side impact standard that you
`
`18· mentioned, did that exist in December of 1995?
`
`19· · · ·A.· I'm hesitating because the word existence
`
`20· is -- yeah, in early 1990, FMVSS-214, which is the
`
`21· site impact standard, was changed from a simple
`
`22· static test, to a dynamic test.· And for the first
`
`23· time, included rear seats, rear seat occupants, in
`
`24· the standard.
`
`25· · · · · · And the reason I was hesitating is
`
`
`
`·1· because it was phased in over the mid '90s.· And
`
`·2· so, in 1995, it wasn't applying to 100 percent of
`
`·3· the vehicles.· So, that's where I come with -- I'm
`
`·4· not sure whether you would say it existed but --
`
`·5· · · ·Q.· I understand.· So, you had also mentioned
`
`·6· the rear impact standard.
`
`·7· · · ·A.· Yes.
`
`·8· · · ·Q.· Did that exist in December of 1995?
`
`·9· · · ·A.· Not in the form it is today.
`
`10· · · ·Q.· Did it exist in any form?
`
`11· · · ·A.· Yes, there was a -- there was a test, I
`
`12· believe.
`
`13· · · ·Q.· And the rollover performance standard
`
`14· that you mentioned, did that exist in December of
`
`15· 1995?
`
`16· · · ·A.· Not in the same form as today.
`
`17· · · ·Q.· Did it exist in any form?
`
`18· · · ·A.· Yes, I believe so.
`
`19· · · ·Q.· And you also mention an oblique impact
`
`20· standard.· Did that standard exist in December of
`
`21· 1995?
`
`22· · · ·A.· No.
`
`23· · · ·Q.· In December of 1995, were frontal airbags
`
`24· required for cars sold in the United States?
`
`25· · · ·A.· They were required for 100 percent of the
`
`
`
`·1· drivers, and I believe it was still being phased
`
`·2· in for the passengers.
`
`·3· · · ·Q.· Were airbag systems in December of 1995
`
`·4· principally focused on how quickly the airbags
`
`·5· were deployed after sensing an impact?
`
`·6· · · ·A.· No.
`
`·7· · · ·Q.· What is the United States regulation for
`
`·8· frontal impacts?
`
`·9· · · ·A.· Can you be more specific?
`
`10· · · ·Q.· What is its title?
`
`11· · · ·A.· Well, FMVSS-208.· I don't remember the
`
`12· exact title.· Something like, Frontal Crash
`
`13· Performance.
`
`14· · · ·Q.· And what is the title of the performance
`
`15· regulation in the United States for side impacts?
`
`16· · · ·A.· The Federal Motor Vehicle Safety
`
`17· Standard, or FMVSS-214.
`
`18· · · ·Q.· What is the title for the regulation in
`
`19· the United States of the rear impact standard that
`
`20· you mentioned?
`
`21· · · ·A.· I don't recall.· It might be 201.
`
`22· · · ·Q.· And that's --
`
`23· · · ·A.· FMVSS.
`
`24· · · ·Q.· Did FMVSS-201 exist in December of 1995?
`
`25· · · ·A.· I'd have to look.· There was some form of
`
`
`
`·1· rear impact test, but not in the same form as
`
`·2· today.
`
`·3· · · ·Q.· What is the title of the United States
`
`·4· regulation for rollover performance standard?
`
`·5· · · ·A.· I don't recall off-hand.
`
`·6· · · ·Q.· You had mentioned FMVSS-208 and FMVSS-
`
`·7· 214.
`
`·8· · · ·A.· Uh-huh.
`
`·9· · · ·Q.· Did either of those standards have a
`
`10· requirement for preventing harm to passengers from
`
`11· deployment of an airbag?· In December of 1995.
`
`12· · · ·A.· You're talking about either 208 or 214?
`
`13· Is that what you said?
`
`14· · · ·Q.· Correct.
`
`15· · · ·A.· Yes, 208 did.· Oh, I remember the
`
`16· rollover is FMVSS-210.
`
`17· · · ·Q.· So, is it your testimony, I'm just trying
`
`18· to make sure I understood you correctly, is it
`
`19· your testimony that FMVSS-208 did have a
`
`20· requirement for preventing harm to passengers from
`
`21· deployment of the airbag?
`
`22· · · ·A.· It had a --
`
`23· · · ·Q.· In December of 1995.
`
`24· · · ·A.· It had a requirement for assessing the
`
`25· risk of injury to passengers from out of position
`
`
`
`·1· passengers with airbags.
`
`·2· · · ·Q.· And did FMVSS-214, in December of 1995,
`
`·3· have a requirement for preventing harm to
`
`·4· passengers from deployment of an airbag?
`
`·5· · · ·A.· Not to my knowledge, no.
`
`·6· · · ·Q.· What type of injuries could occur to
`
`·7· passengers in December of 1995 from deploying
`
`·8· airbags?
`
`·9· · · ·A.· If you'd show me an airbag I can tell
`
`10· you.
`
`11· · · ·Q.· Well, what type of injuries to passengers
`
`12· in December of 1995 were known to have occurred
`
`13· from any type of airbag deploying?
`
`14· · · ·A.· Abrasions to the skin, lacerations,
`
`15· burns, various skeletal and neurologic injuries.
`
`16· Those are examples.
`
`17· · · ·Q.· Could death also occur to passengers in
`
`18· December 1995 from deploying airbags?
`
`19· · · ·A.· Yes.· I would note that death could also
`
`20· occur when there are no airbag present, and was
`
`21· more likely.
`
`22· · · ·Q.· And I see you have the 093 patent right
`
`23· in front of you.
`
`24· · · ·A.· Yes, sir.
`
`25· · · ·Q.· So, that's convenient.· Could you direct
`
`
`
`·1· your attention to figure 85 at that tab?
`
`·2· · · ·A.· I see it.
`
`·3· · · ·Q.· According to your understanding of the
`
`·4· 093 patent, does it disclose an airbag that spans
`
`·5· the side of the vehicle and is deployed downward
`
`·6· so that it fits between the front seat and the
`
`·7· vehicle's side upon inflation?
`
`·8· · · ·A.· Yes.
`
`·9· · · ·Q.· Can you please take a look at column 93,
`
`10· around line 50?
`
`11· · · ·A.· Pardon?· What line?
`
`12· · · ·Q.· Fifty.
`
`13· · · ·A.· Yes.
`
`14· · · ·Q.· Okay.· Do you see the sentence that says
`
`15· as follows, "This provides substantial support for
`
`16· the airbag and helps prevent the occupant from
`
`17· being ejected from the vehicle, even when the side
`
`18· window glass has broken?
`
`19· · · ·A.· I see that sentence.
`
`20· · · ·Q.· And do you have any reason to believe
`
`21· that the statement that I just read to you from
`
`22· the 093 patent is not accurate?
`
`23· · · ·A.· I'd like to read the rest of the
`
`24· paragraph.
`
`25· · · ·Q.· Sure, go ahead.
`
`
`
`·1· · · ·[Pause.]
`
`·2· · · ·A.· Can you repeat your question?
`
`·3· · · ·Q.· Well, my question was with respect to the
`
`·4· statement that we read at column 93, around line
`
`·5· 50, which reads as follows, "This provides
`
`·6· substantial support for the airbag and helps
`
`·7· prevent the occupant from being ejected from the
`
`·8· vehicle, even when the side window glass has
`
`·9· broken."
`
`10· · · · · · So, do you have any reason to believe
`
`11· that this statement from the 093 patent, is not
`
`12· accurate?
`
`13· · · ·A.· No.
`
`14· · · ·Q.· Do you have an understanding of the term,
`
`15· "ejection mitigation?"
`
`16· · · ·A.· I do.
`
`17· · · ·Q.· What is it?
`
`18· · · ·A.· Ejection mitigation refers to reducing
`
`19· the likelihood of an occupant leaving the vehicle,
`
`20· or part of an occupant, such as an arm, being
`
`21· projected outside the window plane.
`
`22· · · ·Q.· Does the United States Government have a
`
`23· standard that governs ejection mitigation?
`
`24· · · ·A.· We do at the moment.
`
`25· · · ·Q.· And what is it called?
`
`
`
`·1· · · ·A.· I don't recall the number.
`
`·2· · · ·Q.· And this ejection standard wasn't in
`
`·3· place in December of 1995 or before.· Is that
`
`·4· correct?
`
`·5· · · ·A.· That's correct.
`
`·6· · · ·Q.· Is it in place today?
`
`·7· · · ·A.· I know that it was being worked on when I
`
`·8· left Ford.· I'm not sure.· I believe it is, but
`
`·9· I'm not sure.
`
`10· · · ·Q.· Do you remember when the ejection
`
`11· standards was first included in the law?
`
`12· · · ·A.· I don't.
`
`13· · · ·Q.· Can you please turn your attention to
`
`14· Figure 85 of the 093 patent?
`
`15· · · ·A.· Yes.· I'm there.
`
`16· · · ·Q.· Do you see on Item 722 on Figure 85?
`
`17· · · ·A.· I do.
`
`18· · · ·Q.· According to your understanding, is 722
`
`19· the housing that holds the airbag before it's
`
`20· deployed?
`
`21· · · ·A.· I'd like to look in the patent and see
`
`22· what it specifically says.
`
`23· · · ·Q.· Okay.
`
`24· · · ·A.· Yes, that's what it says.
`
`25· · · ·Q.· Is the housing identified by Reference
`
`
`
`·1· No. 722 on the airbag system of the 093 patent,
`
`·2· positioned entirely above the window of the side
`
`·3· doors?
`
`·4· · · ·A.· That's what the patent says.
`
`·5· · · ·Q.· Are you familiar with the term, A-Pillar?
`
`·6· · · ·A.· I am.
`
`·7· · · ·Q.· And what is an A-Pillar?
`
`·8· · · ·A.· An A-Pillar is a structural support for
`
`·9· the roof that is found in the front of the vehicle
`
`10· on either side of the windshield.
`
`11· · · ·Q.· And is it called an A-Pillar because in
`
`12· the older cars it would often be shaped like a
`
`13· letter A?
`
`14· · · ·A.· I don't know.
`
`15· · · ·Q.· Okay.· That's what I seem to remember
`
`16· from when my dad was driving around in the '60s.
`
`17· · · · · · What is the B-Pillar ribbon in an
`
`18· automobile?
`
`19· · · ·A.· The B-Pillar is a multifunctional support
`
`20· structure, which serves as a mounting point for
`
`21· doors in a sedan, as well as a roof support.
`
`22· · · ·Q.· And what is a seat pillar?
`
`23· · · ·A.· A seat pillar is basically another roof
`
`24· support found in the rear of the vehicle, on
`
`25· either side of the back light.
`
`
`
`·1· · · ·Q.· Can you turn your attention to column 94
`
`
Accessing this document will incur an additional charge of $.
After purchase, you can access this document again without charge.
Accept $ Charge
Still Working On It
This document is taking longer than usual to download. This can happen if we need to contact the court directly to obtain the document and their servers are running slowly.
Give it another minute or two to complete, and then try the refresh button.
A few More Minutes ... Still Working
It can take up to 5 minutes for us to download a document if the court servers are running slowly.
Thank you for your continued patience.
This document could not be displayed.
We could not find this document within its docket. Please go back to the docket page and check the link. If that does not work, go back to the docket and refresh it to pull the newest information.
Your account does not support viewing this document.
You need a Paid Account to view this document. Click here to change your account type.
Your account does not support viewing this document.
Set your membership
status to view this document.
With a Docket Alarm membership, you'll
get a whole lot more, including:
- Up-to-date information for this case.
- Email alerts whenever there is an update.
- Full text search for other cases.
- Get email alerts whenever a new case matches your search.
One Moment Please
The filing “” is large (MB) and is being downloaded.
Please refresh this page in a few minutes to see if the filing has been downloaded. The filing will also be emailed to you when the download completes.
Your document is on its way!
If you do not receive the document in five minutes, contact support at support@docketalarm.com.
Sealed Document
We are unable to display this document, it may be under a court ordered seal.
If you have proper credentials to access the file, you may proceed directly to the court's system using your government issued username and password.
Access Government Site
