6/2/2017
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`Apple Inc., v. Realtime Data, LLC
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`Charles J. Neuhauser
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`Page 1
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`UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`__________________
`
`BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`__________________
`APPLE INC.,
`Petitioner
`
`v.
`
`REALTIME DATA, LLC D/B/A IXO,
`Patent Owner
`__________________
`
`Case IPR2016-01737
`Case IPR2016-01738
`Case IPR2016-01739
`Patent 8,880,862
`*****************************************************
`ORAL DEPOSITION OF
`CHARLES J. NEUHAUSER, Ph.D.
`JUNE 2, 2017
`*****************************************************
`
` ORAL DEPOSITION OF CHARLES J. NEUHAUSER, Ph.D.,
`produced as a witness at the instance of the Patent Owner,
`taken in the above-styled and -numbered cause on the 2nd
`day of June, 2017, A.D., beginning at 8:56 a.m. to 6:19
`p.m., before Kelly Hassell, RPR, CLR, CSR, in and for the
`State of Texas, in the offices of Winston & Strawn LLP,
`located at 2501 North Harwood, 17th Floor, Dallas, Texas,
`in accordance with the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure and
`the agreement hereinafter set forth.
`____________________________________________________
`DIGITAL EVIDENCE GROUP
`1730 M Street, NW, Suite 812
`Washington, D.C. 20036
`(202) 232-0646
`
`www.DigitalEvidenceGroup.com
`
`Digital Evidence Group C'rt 2017
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`6/2/2017
`
`Apple Inc., v. Realtime Data, LLC
`
`Charles J. Neuhauser
`
` A P P E A R A N C E S
`FOR THE PETITIONER:
` MR. MICHAEL BITTNER
` Winston & Strawn LLP
` 2501 North Harwood
` 17th Floor
` Dallas, Texas 75201
` (214) 453-6464
` (214) 453-6400 (Fax)
` mbittner@winston.com
`
` and
`
` MR. ANDREW B. PATRICK
` Fish & Richardson
` The McPherson Building
` 901 15th Street, Northwest
` Suite 700
` Washington, D.C. 20005
` (202) 783-5070
` (202) 783-2331 (Fax)
` patrick@fr.com
`
`FOR THE PATENT OWNER:
` MR. JOSEPH F. EDELL
` MR. ALAN M. FISCH
` MR. BILL SIGLER
` Fisch Sigler LLP
` 5301 Wisconsin Avenue, Northwest
` Fourth Floor
` Washington, D.C. 20015
` (202) 362-3527
` (202) 362-3501 (Fax)
` joe.edell.ipr@fischllp.com
` alan.fisch@fischllp.com
` bill.sigler@fischllp.com
`
`Page 2
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` I N D E X
`Appearances...................................... Page 2
`Exhibit List..................................... Page 4
`Direct Examination by Mr. Edell.................. Page 5
`Cross-Examination by Mr. Bittner................. Page 258
`Redirect Examination by Mr. Edell................ Page 275
`Stipulations..................................... Page 321
`Reporter's Certificate........................... Page 323
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` EXHIBITS
`EXHIBIT NO. DESCRIPTION PAGE
`Exhibit 2003 Patent office's trial practice guide 7
`Exhibit 2004 "Declaration of Dr. Charles J. 60
` Neuhauser," Docket No. 39521-0025IP1
`Exhibit 2005 "Declaration of Dr. Charles J. 60
` Neuhauser," Docket No. 39521-0025IP1
`Exhibit 2006 "Declaration of Dr. Charles J. 61
` Neuhauser," Docket No. 39521-0025IP3
`Exhibit 2007 "Microsoft Computer Dictionary Fifth 275
` Edition"
`
`
`Page 4
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` P R O C E E D I N G S
` THE COURT REPORTER: Today is June 2, 2017.
`The time is approximately 8:56 a.m.
` This is the deposition of Charles J.
`Neuhauser, Ph.D., in the matter of Realtime Data, LLC
`versus Apple Inc.
` Will all counsel present please state their
`appearance and whom they represent.
` MR. EDELL: Good morning. Joe Edell, of
`Fisch Sigler, on behalf of the Patent Owner, Realtime Data,
`LLC d/b/a IXO. Joining me is cocounsel Alan Fisch and Bill
`Sigler, also of Fisch Sigler LLP.
` MR. BITTNER: Michael Bittner, of Winston &
`Strawn, on behalf of the Petitioner and Defendant Apple and
`the witness. I have with me cocounsel Andrew Patrick of
`Fish & Richardson.
` CHARLES J. NEUHAUSER, Ph.D.,
`having been first duly cautioned and sworn to testify the
`truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, testified
`on his oath as follows:
` DIRECT EXAMINATION
`BY MR. EDELL:
`
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`6/2/2017
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`Apple Inc., v. Realtime Data, LLC
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`Charles J. Neuhauser
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` Q Good morning.
` A Good morning.
` Q Will you please state and spell your name for the
`record.
` A I'm Charles J. Neuhauser. That's
`N-E-U-H-A-U-S-E-R.
` Q Dr. Neuhauser, how many times have you been
`deposed?
` A Probably 30, 40, 50 times.
` Q And how many depositions for an inter partes
`review?
` A I think probably someplace between 10 and 12.
` Q What, if any, differences are there between a
`deposition involving a litigation and a deposition
`involving an inter partes review?
` MR. BITTNER: Objection; form.
` A From my perspective, I don't think there's any.
` Q (BY MR. EDELL) So are you aware of any
`differences between --
` A I'm not.
` Q So I'm handing -- well, I've already handed the
`court reporter what has been marked as Realtime
`Page 6
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`Exhibit 2003. This is a -- the patent office's Trial
`Practice Guide.
` (Exhibit 2003 marked.)
` MR. EDELL: One second a moment. I've got
`to find the copies.
` Q (BY MR. EDELL) Dr. Neuhauser, have you seen this
`document before?
` A No, I have not.
` Q Well, let me direct your attention to a section
`beginning on the page in the upper left corner on
`Page 48772, Appendix D.
` A 48 -- oh, 772.
` Q Yes, sir.
` A Appendix D, as in delta?
` Q Correct.
` A Okay.
` Q Okay. There's a number of paragraphs. I'll
`direct you to Paragraph 6. It's in the far right column.
` A Uh-huh.
` Q Paragraph 6 reads, "Once the cross-examination of
`a witness has commenced, and until cross-examination of the
`witness has concluded, counsel offering the witness on
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`direct examination shall not: (a) Consult or confer with
`the witness regarding the substance of the witness'
`testimony already given, or anticipated to be given, except
`for the purpose of conferring on whether to assert a
`privilege against testifying or on how to comply with a
`Board order; or (b) suggest to the witness the manner in
`which any questions should be answered."
` A Uh-huh.
` Q Do you understand those --
` A I do.
` Q -- information?
` So in other words, you cannot discuss the
`deposition testimony with your attorneys while the
`deposition is ongoing; is that fair?
` MR. BITTNER: Objection; form.
` A Well, I understand that. Yeah.
` Q (BY MR. EDELL) But you understand that?
` A I mean, is that what -- you're asking me is
`that -- you're not asking me whether that's fair in some --
`you're asking whether your summary of this is fair?
` Q Correct.
` A Yeah, that's my understanding.
`
`Page 8
`
` Q So you -- you're not going to confer with your
`attorneys during breaks; is that correct?
` A That's correct.
` Q You can set this document aside.
` Are you currently employed?
` A Yes, I am.
` Q Where are you employed?
` A I -- well, self-referential, I work for myself.
`My company name is called Neuhauser Associates,
`Incorporated.
` Q Is that your only employment?
` A Yes.
` Q Okay. And where do you work?
` A Where do I work?
` Q Where?
` A I -- well, 99 percent of the time I work out my
`office.
` Q And where is your office located?
` A The address? 525 West Remington Drive,
`Suite 126, Sunnyvale, California 94087.
` Q And what do you do?
` A What do I do? Well...
`
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`6/2/2017
`
`Apple Inc., v. Realtime Data, LLC
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`Charles J. Neuhauser
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` Q What do you as -- through your job?
` A Well, I tell people my job is to provide
`technical advice to folks, mostly about matters related to
`litigation.
` Q And that's the total scope of your work there?
` MR. BITTNER: Objection; form.
` A Well, people come to me and ask me to do things,
`and I help them out as best I can. I mean, I can describe
`it in more detail, if you want, if that's what you're
`looking for.
` Q (BY MR. EDELL) I'm just looking to ensure that I
`got the full scope of what you do at --
` A Sure.
` Q -- Neuhauser Associates.
` And so to summarize your answer, you provide
`consultation typically for litigation matters?
` MR. BITTNER: Objection; form.
` A I provide technical advice, and I say "typically"
`for litigation matters.
` Q (BY MR. EDELL) What other examples of -- what
`are some of the other matters that you provide technical
`advice for?
`
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` A Well, I've -- I've helped people out in some kind
`of business negotiations, for example. But, you know, just
`a -- maybe I can help you out here.
` You know, with respect to litigation, I've
`done work on patents, software copyrights, trade secrets.
`Okay? So those are the kind of basic things people come to
`me with. And then I've done some things on business
`negotiations.
` Q So about what percentage of your time is spent
`advising on litigation matters?
` MR. BITTNER: I'll object to the form.
` A Well, the clients, I would say, in the last few
`years, probably 90 percent.
` Q (BY MR. EDELL) To round it out, when you say "in
`the last few years," what years -- what range are you
`referring to?
` A Well, over the last few years -- the last five
`years, let's say.
` Q So in the last five years your work has been
`about 90 percent on advising for litigation matters?
` A Yeah, giving people technical advice and
`engineering things related to litigation, because usually a
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`litigation is a patent; it's a software copyright or it's a
`trade secret.
` Q Okay. In this case, how would you describe your
`role?
` MR. BITTNER: Objection to foundation.
` A How would I describe my role? Well, evaluate
`prior art and determine whether or not that prior art
`applies to a -- well, this particular case, that there were
`three IPRs, but we're here concerned only with one set of
`IPRs today, right, the three that the deposition was
`noticed on.
` Basically review prior art, determine
`whether or not it applied and develop a declaration and
`testify about it.
` Q (BY MR. EDELL) And you mentioned the IPR. So
`you're here today to testify regarding your opinions for
`the IPRs involving U.S. Patent 8,880,862, correct?
` A '862 is what I call it, yes.
` Q So I was correct? That's correct?
` A That's correct.
` MR. EDELL: So I'm going to hand the court
`reporter what has previously been marked as exhibit --
`Page 12
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`Apple Exhibit 1001. And this is Exhibit 1001.
` In each of the IPR -- the 2016 IPR 01737,
`01738 and 01739, Exhibit 1001 is U.S. Patent 8,880,862
`entitled "Systems and Methods for Accelerated Loading of
`Operating Systems and Application Programs."
` MR. BITTNER: Objection; form.
` Q (BY MR. EDELL) Dr. Neuhauser, do you recognize
`this document?
` A Yes, I do.
` Q And if I refer to this as the '862 patent you'll
`understand I'm referring to Exhibit 1001?
` A I will.
` Q And this is the patent with which you provided
`opinions for the IPRs I mentioned before?
` A That's right.
` MR. BITTNER: Objection; foundation.
` Q (BY MR. EDELL) How many times have you read the
`'862 patent?
` MR. BITTNER: Objection; form.
` A Well, I've probably -- I'll have to qualify this
`little part here (indicating), the front page and the
`actual -- this -- the figures and the text and the back, I
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`6/2/2017
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`Apple Inc., v. Realtime Data, LLC
`
`Charles J. Neuhauser
`
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`probably read that -- I mean, you know, putting aside just
`referring to it -- probably five or six times cover --
`cover to cover. The references here, I haven't really
`studied those. I mean, there's thousands of them. Well,
`maybe not thousands, but hundreds.
` Q (BY MR. EDELL) So you're referring to Pages 2
`through --
` A Probably 22 or something, 27, 29.
` Q So setting aside the references cited on Pages 2
`through 29 of the '862 patent, you've read the remaining
`pages approximately five or six times, correct?
` A That -- that's -- that --
` MR. BITTNER: Objection; form.
` A -- seems right to me.
` Q (BY MR. EDELL) I want to direct you to Claim 1
`of '862, so we'll skip over those --
` A Okay.
` Q -- (inaudible) pages.
` And this is in Column 26 of the '862 patent,
`correct, sir?
` A That's correct.
` Q So Claim 1 of the '862 patent begins, "A method
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`for providing accelerated loading of an operating system in
`a computer system, the method comprising..."
` That's correct?
` A That's correct.
` Q And then that's followed by the first step, which
`reads, "Loading a portion of boot data in a compressed form
`that is associated with a portion of a boot data list for
`booting the computer system into a memory."
` Correct?
` A That's correct.
` Q So Step 1 describes loading boot data; is that a
`fair description?
` MR. BITTNER: Objection; form.
` A Well, I don't think that describes the step. I
`mean, that just -- I mean, you can refer to it that way, if
`you want, but that -- it has more words than that. Words
`are important, they're there for a purpose.
` Q (BY MR. EDELL) For purposes of -- of Claim 1, if
`I refer to the loading step, you'll at least understand
`what I'm referring to? That's the first step that I just
`recited.
` A You can call it that if you wish.
`
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` Q Okay. So in Claim 1 -- in the loading step of
`Claim 1 it states explicitly "boot data in a compressed
`form"; is that correct?
` A It -- it states that, yes.
` Q And this means the boot data being loaded into
`memory has already been compressed?
` MR. BITTNER: I'll object to the form.
` A I just have to get my mind warmed up here. It's
`early in the morning, so let me review this for a minute.
` Do you have my declaration for this?
` Q (BY MR. EDELL) I do.
` A May I have it?
` Q We'll get to that.
` But I'm asking you what -- you know, what
`the words on the page of '862 are describing.
` A Well, I mean, it's in my declaration, so if you
`would just present it to me that would probably shorten
`things.
` Q Well, let me ask you a question that maybe you
`can answer without having to defer to your declaration.
` A Without deferring to my declaration? I'd just
`like to refer to it.
`
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` Q Okay. Well, we're going to talk about Claim 1
`for now.
` So Claim 1, Step 1, a person of skill in the
`art when they read the step understands that the data --
`the boot data is compressed when it's loading it, correct?
` MR. BITTNER: I'll object to the form.
` A I'm not -- I'm not sure I quite understand your
`question. Do you think compression is part of the step; is
`that what you're trying to say? You said it is compressed?
` Q (BY MR. EDELL) What I'm asking is, when a person
`of skill in the art reads -- so when I --
` A Okay. Yeah.
` Q -- have just read that phrase, the common phrase
`I'm sure you're familiar with, if I refer to that as
`POSITA, will you understand that refers to a person of
`ordinary skill in the art?
` A Yeah. It's a dreadful term, but, yeah, I
`understand it.
` Q Do you prefer that or POSITA or which one
`do you --
` A The same, a person of ordinary skill in the art.
` Q Yeah. And --
`
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`6/2/2017
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`Apple Inc., v. Realtime Data, LLC
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`Charles J. Neuhauser
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` A I never used that, so...
` Q Her fingers may fly -- fly off.
` But so if I -- so when a POSITA reads Step 1
`of Claim 1, it refers to "boot data in a compressed form."
` Did I read that correctly?
` A It refers to boot data in compressed form.
` Q And the word "compressed" is in the past tense,
`correct?
` A Yes. I mean, it's also descriptive of what
`the -- what the information is.
` Q So the boot data is already compressed, correct?
` A Yes, that's -- that's what I think one of
`ordinary skill in the art would understand.
` Q And if we read on it says that the loading
`step -- that the boot data "is associated with a portion of
`a boot data list," correct?
` A That's correct.
` Q And here, again, the word "associated" is in the
`past tense, correct?
` A Well, it's a past participle, isn't it? It's
`a --
` Q Well, it's in the past tense, correct?
`
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` A But it says there's an association. I'm not sure
`I'm following your notion about the past tense. I mean --
` Q I mean, you have been speaking English your
`entire life, correct?
` MR. BITTNER: Objection; form.
` A Yeah, of course. But --
` Q (BY MR. EDELL) So I'm asking whether the word
`"associated" is referring to the word when it's in the
`present tense or in the past tense.
` A Let me think about this for a minute.
` I -- I guess when I was looking at this, I
`thought a person of an ordinary skill in the art would
`think that that is the current state of the boot data, that
`it's associated, might have been associated in the past but
`it is associated now.
` Q And Claim 1 --
` A It's a description of the boot data, right?
`It's -- I'm sorry, it's a description of the...
` Q I think --
` A Yeah, the boot -- it's a description of the boot
`data. It's saying something about the characteristics of
`the boot data in the present time. It's associated with
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`this thing.
` Q Fair enough.
` So in the -- when a person of skill in the
`art reads the loading step of Claim 1, they understand that
`the boot data is associated with a portion of the boot data
`list; is that fair?
` A I think that's what it's describing, yes.
` Q And that happens -- withdrawn.
` So the boot data is associated with the boot
`data list. That happens -- that that state is already
`occurring before it's being loaded in Step 1?
` MR. BITTNER: I'll object to form.
` A Well, I think that's -- the one possibility. But
`it's really just describing a characteristic of this --
`this boot data. Make sure I don't get boot data and boot
`data list backwards here. It's just describing a
`characteristic. And when that characteristic arises it
`could be in the present because it's being loaded. It
`could have been in the past. It's saying it is associated.
` Q (BY MR. EDELL) Fair enough.
` A Like it is red or it is green.
` Q About a person that's -- a POSITA would
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`understand that the characteristic of -- withdrawn.
` A person of -- a POSITA would understand
`that one of the characteristics of the boot data that's
`being loaded into memory is that that boot data is
`associated with a portion of a boot data list?
` A Let me hear that back.
` MR. EDELL: I can ask --
` A Or you can just ask it again.
` Q (BY MR. EDELL) Sure. I'm just using the
`reference that you -- using a characteristic.
` So a POSITA would understand that one of the
`characteristics of the boot data that's being loaded into
`memory is that it is already associated with a portion of a
`boot data list?
` MR. BITTNER: Objection; form.
` Q (BY MR. EDELL) Correct?
` A I don't think that's what I said. I said that
`it's a characteristic that it has, and it might have
`occurred in the past. It might have occurred during the
`loading process.
` Q So your position is that the -- the associated --
`well, withdrawn.
`
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`6/2/2017
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`Apple Inc., v. Realtime Data, LLC
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`Charles J. Neuhauser
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` So -- and this might be a -- us saying the
`same thing a different way.
` A Possible.
` Q What I want to understand is your view on whether
`a person -- a POSITA reads Step 1 and understands that when
`it refers to a compressed form of the boot data that's
`associated with a portion of the boot data list, that is a
`state of the boot data being loaded into memory, fair?
` A I think that's a reasonable characterization.
`I'm mangling the word, but...
` Q It's still early.
` So my description was a reasonable
`characterization of the loading step of Claim 1?
` A To the extent that I understand that you were
`basically just reading back the words that I stated
`earlier, I think that's fair.
` Q So -- I mean, that doesn't really answer the
`question. So --
` A Okay.
` Q -- let me try to ask you the same question again.
` A Uh-huh.
` Q So when a POSITA reads the loading step of
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`Claim 1 they understand that the boot data has a
`characteristic of being associated with a portion of a boot
`data list that -- when it's being loaded into memory?
` MR. BITTNER: I'll object to the form.
` A I'm not sure I completely agree with that, but --
`I mean, you said, "When it's being loaded into memory."
`It's possible that it could happen during the process of
`loading in the memory. I'm trying to -- I mean, we're
`required to read these things broadly in broadest
`reasonable terms, and I'm just trying to avoid excluding
`something that -- you know, you're saying this must have
`been something that happened in the past. It's a
`characteristic of the -- of the -- the boot data. When
`that characteristic arises, the process of loading, for
`example, might associate the boot data. I don't think that
`would be excluded.
` Q (BY MR. EDELL) And you think that interpretation
`is consistent with a broad -- broadest reasonable
`interpretation of the loading step?
` A It seems like it should be.
` Q So -- so let me make sure that --
` A This --
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` Q -- we --
` A Go ahead.
` Q -- we're on the same page because --
` A 26.
` Q -- the loading step of Claim 1 refers to boot
`data; is that fair?
` A That's one of the things it's referring to.
` Q And Claim 1 explicitly says that the boot data
`"is associated with a portion of a boot data list,"
`correct?
` A That's correct.
` Q And that --
` A I mean, that's --
` Q Using your --
` A That's a reinterpretation of the claim. But, I
`mean, it says what it says in the claim. But, yes, I think
`that's --
` Q So I read --
` A -- reasonable.
` Q -- the words of the claim correctly?
` A You left out some words in between, but it's
`okay. I mean, it seems reasonably correct, what you said.
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` Q And to use your word, that's a characteristic
`of -- being associated with a portion of the boot data list
`is a characteristic of the boot data?
` A That's correct.
` Q And that characteristic is present in the boot
`data during the loading step?
` MR. BITTNER: I'll object to the form.
` THE WITNESS: Just repeat the question here
`and make sure I got it in my head.
` (Requested portion read.)
` A I -- I think that's correct. I mean, it could
`have arisen during the loading step. That would make it --
`what I think would be the view of one of ordinary skill in
`the art if that association arose during -- during the
`loading step. It would be present during the loading step.
` I don't know if that's what you had in mind
`when you asked the question.
` Q (BY MR. EDELL) The loading step is loading a
`portion of boot data into memory, correct?
` A Yes, that's correct.
` Q The loading step of Claim 1 specifies that the
`boot data being loaded is associated with a portion of a
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`Apple Inc., v. Realtime Data, LLC
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`Charles J. Neuhauser
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`boot data list, correct?
` MR. BITTNER: Objection; form.
` A Well, it says the "boot data in compressed form
`that is associated with the portion of the boot data list."
` Is associated with the boot data list.
`That's --
` Give me your question again. Maybe I can
`give you a -- like a "yes" or "no" or maybe make it an
`answer.
` I just don't want you to have a messy
`question to look at later -- a messy answer.
` Q Fair enough.
` MR. EDELL: If you have it in form where you
`can read it back, please do.
` (Requested portion read.)
` A I believe that's correct.
` Q (BY MR. EDELL) So there are a number of
`independent claims, for better or worse, than there are --
` A There's only a few.
` Q This loading step, you know, shares some
`similarities with the other claims, so I'm going to walk
`through those as well --
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` A Okay.
` Q -- just for completeness. And I might skip
`around because, you know, there's obviously permutations
`that vary a little bit. So I'm going to try, hopefully,
`make it in line so that it's easy to wrap our heads around
`the consistent language.
` So I'll direct you next to Claim 11. That's
`in Column 28.
` A And I would ask once again that you present me
`with a copy of my declarations -- actually, both
`declarations.
` Q And we'll get that for sure. But I just wanted
`to round out these independent claims, you know, looking at
`the words on the page of the patent.
` A Let me just make a little statement here for you
`here.
` Q Okay. That's all right.
` A These are serious proceedings, all right,
`requiring serious consideration. It seems fair that I
`should have my declaration to refer to.
` Q Did you bring it today?
` A I did not.
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` Q Okay. Well, I have a copy for you, and I'll be
`sure to give it to you.
` A May I have it?
` Q But I want to focus on the claims of the '862,
`just what the words on the page mean; is that fair?
` A May I have my declaration, please? I may need
`it.
` Q You may need it, and I'm sure we'll talk about it
`in detail. But what I want to focus on is what the claims
`mean, not about necessarily what your opinions are
`regarding prior art.
` MR. BITTNER: I'll object to form.
` A Well, but I mean, that's parts of what's in the
`declaration, isn't it?
` Q (BY MR. EDELL) Have you had a chance to get to
`Claim 11 yet?
` A I'm still back at the stage of asking for my
`declaration.
` Q And I would definitely -- we'll talk about the
`prior art issues. But for now we're talking about Claim 11
`of claim -- of Column 28.
` So it has -- it has the same step -- it has
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`a similar step, excuse me, that says, "Loading boot data in
`a compressed form that is associated with a boot data list
`from a boot device into a memory upon utilization of the
`computer system."
` Correct?
` MR. BITTNER: I'll object to the form.
` A You're just -- your question is did you read it
`correctly?
` Q (BY MR. EDELL) Yes, sir.
` A I believe you did.
` Q So like Claim 1, Claim 11 includes a step that
`recites loading the boot data in a compressed form that is
`associated with a boot data list from a boot device --
`withdrawn. Excuse me. I misread it.
` So like Claim 1, Claim 11 recites, "Loading
`boot data in a compressed form that is associated with a
`boot data list"?
` MR. BITTNER: I'll object to form.
` A Well, I -- the words that you read there are the
`same words, but of course they're in a different claim. So
`they're in a different context. So just because you read
`the words and said they're the same words, they may not
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`6/2/2017
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`Apple Inc., v. Realtime Data, LLC
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`Charles J. Neuhauser
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`mean the same thing here. I'm just pointing that out. I
`mean, your statement is correct, that the section that you
`read to me, those same words are in the -- in Claim 1. I'm
`just pointing out that Claim 11 is a different claim and
`the words that surround it, even in that clause, are
`different. That's all I'm saying. I'm not saying you're
`incorrect. I mean, you're reading this correctly.
` Q (BY MR. EDELL) And to hopefully streamline
`this --
` A So we can get out of here today.
` Q So what -- yeah. So what I wanted to confirm,
`that when a person -- or a POSITA reads the loading step of
`Claim 11 they are reading the similar phrase of the boot
`data in a compressed form that is associated with either a
`portion or all of the boot data list. Those are the same
`words.
` MR. BITTNER: I'll object to form.
` A Wait a second. Let's back up here and let's go
`back to your first question where I said the words are the
`same. I may be misstating that.
` Q (BY MR. EDELL) Okay.
` A Maybe that will make it clearer. So let's go
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`back to your first question. Let's just ask that one
`again, if you can remember which one that is.
` Q Yes. Yeah. So for Claim 11 --
` A Uh-huh.
` Q -- like Claim 1, the terminology used in